Who here likes locomotives for under $140?

[daan]

Yep, me too. The only engines I can buy new in europe are the types costing over 400 euro's. There is a slight change however. On a german ebayshop they also sell new K-line engines. Only a few, but hey, it's a start. They are in the pricerange between 200 en 300 euro's. Most of my equipment is around 100 euro's per engine. So wel below the 140 dollarline mentionned. Mostly from ebay or secondhand from big trainmeetings. (there are a few in holland big enough to find 0 gauge) Even my lionel sd 28, which was new, was below 140.
The thing with cheap engines (motors in the trucks) is their derailmentquota. They derail much faster then the others. Because the motor is in the truck, the front axle lifts when pulling causing derailments on switches and in curves. I tried to springload the front end of the trucks, but if I apply enough load to keep them from lifting, the truck doesn't follow the track in curves anymore. I'm still working on that, probably going to add serious weight..

[Anonymous]

Got a K-Line B&O F-7 A&B motorized units Sunday at Just Trains for $149.(list $380.) Just has the basics (a horn that could wake the dead), but hey, less stuff to go wrong. I like the E unit that will always start in "forward" after it sits for a short time (I have a small layout, and do very little backing-up). A large and handsom pair for "cheapskates", however, it will not work on 027 track. Joe

[jwse30]

Keith,

Thanks for the info on the 1688; I was guessing that those engines had the same issue as the other 4 wheel steamers of the era. Now I know. I guess I'll have to wait on that engie until I have more room to add an additional loop of track (next layout, probably 06 or 07 at the earliest)

I've also got a Marx 999 with similiar issues regarding switches. I set it up under the tree two years ago pulling some 6" tin cars. Looked very sharp. My next layout will have at least one ROW for these "older" engines.

J White

[1688torpedo]

Hello JWSE30! Prewar 1688's do not like newer 027 switches,You will have to find older prewar 027 Switch Tracks for the 1688 & other prewar 027 engines to run through or you can just set up a oval for them to run on. If you buy that 1688 I know of a Gent who can refurbish it and make it look like brand new again.Just e-mail me. Have a nice day everyone.......................Keith

[cnw1995]

I have some of the K-Line sets and would recommend them - recently purchased the Santa Fe Steam Chief set for about $112. I believe this is an older set. It has a Railsounds tender and three passenger cars (that's why I got it)- along with a 120 v transformer, and oval of their snap-track. I just got it out last night - the train runs fine, nice smoke, the tender works, each passenger car is lit and has separate grab-irons and some other details but it's certainly not scale. I also have their most low-end of low-end sets - the Pennsy battery-powered set - a GP and three cars for less than $40 retail. It's oversized and plasticy - the cars are super-light with plastic wheelsets - but it has an infra-red remote that works great - and if one uses rechargable batteries, it's good to run - at least on my 027 layout - as an 'extra' train. The other low-end K-Line sets I have played with are about $109 and have an MP15 and five cars and an oval of train and transformer. The engine has a horn that works - sounds a bit tinny but thrills the kids. The cars I would consider to be equivalent to MPC-era Lionel ones. They looked fine - had opening boxcar doors, etc.

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwse30

I was just looking at the K-line 05 catalog, and noticed something. The engine on the front cover is less than $140. Can't recall ever seeing that before.

J White

Take a look at the NYC Pacemaker Frieght set on pages 14/15. The wheel on the rear truck of the loco is off the track!

Does anyone out there own one of these K-Line Starter sets? I'd like to know more about them - how they run, smoke, whistle sound, etc. Also, I noticed that they are just the opposite of Lionel's versions in that the PRR version has Railsounds while the NYC version is whistle only set. I think K-Line's add-on pacs are nicer too, especially the passenger cars, which have diaphrams.

I received some Williams' brochures in the mail last night and was disappointed to see that they have raised prices of the post war repro locos by an average of $30.00 each. At $299.95 for their repro Berk, I can buy a gorgeous Lionel Berkshire with railsounds and still have $100.00 left over. I no longer see Williams as affordable. Yeah, their products are nice and I like the simplicity of the electronics, but the prices should reflect that simplicity.

Jim

[jwse30]

1688torpedo,

I saw a1688 at a local store for $125 a few days ago. I dare say it would have been in E condition, if it didn't have a rust spot a half dollar would barely cover. Needless to say, it's still for sale.

While I'm thinking of it, will the 1688 work with modern era o27 switches? I seem to recall some of the prewar x-4-x units didn't. (the number 1654 comes to mind)

J White

[1688torpedo]

Who likes locos for under $140.00 I do! 1688s are a bargain. Between $ 75.00 - 125.00 in most places depending on condition and if it doesn't run I can get it to run just fine with some Rubbing Alchohol,Q-tips,and a Screwdriver.[:)].............Keith

[jwse30]

I was just looking at the K-line 05 catalog, and noticed something. The engine on the front cover is less than $140. Can't recall ever seeing that before.

J White

[mersenne6]

A locomotive for under $140. HA!!!!!! Not anyone I know - my associates think 401K is the minimum amout of money you need to build a starter layout. The only use they have for mint conditioned MTH Rail King and Lionel Traditional die cast engines is for ballast in their yachts. They won't bother with a mint, boxed train unless there is clear evidence of Cowan's fingerprints on the engine. They belong to the exclusive subscribers list of CTT and OGR and have their issues printed on vellum and hand delivered by Niel and Jim. I mean, please, $140 engines....really!!!!!! [:D]

[Jumijo]

I just scanned Williams' web site. Although most of the tenders are sold out, they are/were offered in two varieties and several liveries.

A Berkshire style sells for $99.95 and an S2 type for $79.95. Both types appear to have 6-wheeled trucks.

Williams' tenders do have a bell as well as a whistle, but even so, the Lionel tender is much less expensive (by almost half).

Jim

[jwse30]

QUOTE: I didn't know Williams sold "loose" tenders, but the one advertised with their 2056 repro has 6-wheeled trucks, if that makes any difference to you.

I don't know if they do, but a local trainstore here does, so I assumed they did.

Thanks for the info on the Lionel tender; I'll have to take a look at the catalog.

J White

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwse30

I think the boxy tender looks right behind the 2055, 2037 (and 2016, 2026), and I think it would go behind the 2034 if I get one. I don't like it behind my turbine, the 2046, or the 2025.

Well, looks like we agree on the 2025 not looking good with this tender. That's better agreement than some threads [:)]

I haven't seen a catalog with the 2426 tender in it. What's the price on that? I'm sure it's got to be close to what Williams charges.

J White

On page 93 of the 2005 Lionel catalog is a 773W style NYC whistle tender, part number 6-29822. It lists for $62.99, but I ordered one at my LHS and it was "only" $47.95.

It's smooth, streamlined, 4-wheeled trucks, and has a water scoop, Post War Celebration Series plaque and packaging.

I didn't know Williams sold "loose" tenders, but the one advertised with their 2056 repro has 6-wheeled trucks, if that makes any difference to you.

[jwse30]

Frank53,

Looks like a good find. I'm McGinnis with envy. [:D]

J White

[jwse30]

I think the boxy tender looks right behind the 2055, 2037 (and 2016, 2026), and I think it would go behind the 2034 if I get one. I don't like it behind my turbine, the 2046, or the 2025.

Well, looks like we agree on the 2025 not looking good with this tender. That's better agreement than some threads [:)]

I haven't seen a catalog with the 2426 tender in it. What's the price on that? I'm sure it's got to be close to what Williams charges.

J White

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwse30

All but two of my engines were under $140. Oddly enough, one of the ones that cost more is an RS-3 (UP paint, from about 15 years ago). Most of my postwar steamers cost less than the Trainsounds tender I recently bought to run with them.

I was buying "junker" postwar and fixing them up, but now I think I've got one of each type of steam (except a berk, and a 773; I doubt either of those will turn up in the junk bins). The only one I may find someday is a 2034. I may have to buy another 675-2025-2035, and try that paint job out that was in the last CTT.

J White

I have a 2034 and a 2025, and like you, I decided to purchase a tender with modern electronics, but I opted for the new post-war 773 tender that's coming out in July. It only has a whistle, but I like the styling better than railsound/trainsound tenders that are offered. Ideally, I'd like a Railsounds or a whistle tender like those found on Lionel's small berkshires - with LIONEL LINES or NYC livery.

Jim

[poppyl]

You gotta love the BEEPs, particularly if you drop the TA module in. I also have several "cheap" conventional engines that my grandchildren run. If something happens to one of them as a result, I'm not out a lot of money one way or the other. The kids care about price -- they just want to see them run fast.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brianel027

joe (or anyone else who knows), does your new PRR RS-3 have one or two motorized trucks?
I think you're going to find that if it only has the single motor, that as is (being as light as that loco is in weight), it will pull 5-6 cars

Also $67 is a darn good price if you got that from a local small dealer.
.

It has one motor, and 5 or 6 cars is max. for my small layout (don't want it chasing its caboose). Got it at Nicholas Smith Trains, which is a 20 minute drive from my home (lucky me, especially since they carry the full Arttista line of figures). Joe

[jwse30]

All but two of my engines were under $140. Oddly enough, one of the ones that cost more is an RS-3 (UP paint, from about 15 years ago). Most of my postwar steamers cost less than the Trainsounds tender I recently bought to run with them.

I was buying "junker" postwar and fixing them up, but now I think I've got one of each type of steam (except a berk, and a 773; I doubt either of those will turn up in the junk bins). The only one I may find someday is a 2034. I may have to buy another 675-2025-2035, and try that paint job out that was in the last CTT.

J White

[brianel027]

joe (or anyone else who knows), does your new PRR RS-3 have one or two motorized trucks? I'm sure it looks nice... I think the paint jobs on some of the affordable end Lionel products have gotten much better. But the loco is cataloged as having one motor. Some others that said the same, actually have two.

I think you're going to find that if it only has the single motor, that as is (being as light as that loco is in weight), it will pull 5-6 cars... maybe a couple more if they are light with plastic trucks and fast angle wheels.

Also $67 is a darn good price if you got that from a local small dealer. I suspect though you got it mailorder or from someone bigger. At $85 list, you won't see it in small dealer shops for less than $77... they just don't get the margins to do much better.

[Anonymous]

My new Lionel RS-3 runs next to my 15 year old Williams brass K4. It pulls 5 cars just fine, and works fine switching on my FasTrack manual. At "dealer" $67., it would make a great "starter set", along with some $20. cars and a used transformer. In PRR markings, it's not bad looking ( MUCH better that it appears in '05 catalog). Joe

[Frank53]

while it was more than $140, I just picked this up for $200.00. Nice thing about it, if it doesn't work - it ain't tough to fix.

[ChiefEagles]

I do a lot like Doug. I buy a lot of cars that are on sale or not the top of the line. If they have plastic trucks and are light, I add weight. I have a SW2 that will pull 15 hopper cars loaded with coal. Added weight. Older UBoats, added weight. Be surprised how well a weighted cheap engine will pull.

[cnw1995]

I second these posts. I find myself in a season of life that can't afford more expensive engines or frankly paying more than $25 for a freight car, though I still cheer on those that can afford the biggies - and follow their discussions about chuff rates and rivet detail with interest.

[Anonymous]

I haven't purchased an O gauge locomotive for more than $150 in some time now. I believe the most recent purchase that cost more than that was the Lionel Christmas Berkshire w/RailSounds. Everything else before and since over the past couple of years has been BEEPs, Plymouths, Lionel Docksider, and several Williams locomotives. Next up will be the K-Line Porter. In my opinion, one does not have to have expensive and big locomotives to thoroughly enjoy this hobby and to take full advantage of its potential. Truth is, the smaller and less expensive locomotives are often a whole lot more trouble free, reliable, and durable.

[pbjwilson]

Speaking of name recognition and capitalizing on hisory, I was at Toys R us buying a bike for my son. I overheard someone say " oh, that's a Schwinn. That's the best quality bike made". Well, the Schwinn plant in Chicago has been gone for years, and I don't know who's making their bikes these days, but Schwinn and all the other brands we knew as kids are all made in China.
But to this day people still think of Schwinn as the best bike money can buy.
Much like Lionel the name lives on and retains its mystique as the "best".

[brianel027]

tmcc man, I'm not picking on you, but I loved your comment:
"i have the lionel southern RS3, and i only put one car on it, which is a lionel gondola, i really only put it on when little kids are over, and for what i run with it,it works well."

I'd love to make that commercial for Lionel with a little kid exclaiming "Wow, Dad, look! That engine is strong enough to pull one single car!!"

I'm certain though that most folks that are buying those RS-3 plastic framed, single motored diesels are planning on pulling more than one single gondola. And there lies the problem... it'll pull a few cars on a simple oval. But starting adding switches and crossovers with a few more cars (nevermind even the slightest grade), and you start having problems. Maybe that's why (?) those RS-3 sets came with 3 cars total.

In my mind it would be like buying a fully loaded control engine, finding out it's defective, but then saying, "but it runs just fine when run traditionally by the transformer."

Lionel has made some cheap locos over the years, even during the postwar years. But during those days, Lionel was more more well known than it is today. The product is in part today, part of the advertising. Good products are good advertising... bad products are not.

When you actually call Lionel and hear their messages, they talk a lot about the great grand history of Lionel: Hudons, Trainmasters, F-3's etc. People really do STILL equate Lionel with die cast rugged quality (despite the postwar low end stuff and bare basic MPC sets). Lionel capitalizes on this history also. Which is fine. But given the price points of the other companies, I think it is a utter shame for that RS-3 to not have dual motors and some additional weight - even at the current price point of the RS-3.

Some companies live off their names, and others off their products. It's too bad that if you are in the market for basic trains, that Williams actually makes better quality, better priced copies of Lionel trains than Lionel actually currently makes them. Which is why you hear more and more positive comments about Williams products.

[Buckeye Riveter]

I am really thinking that buying Williams and then doing a conversion is the way to go. You get a really good engine that can pull stumps using TMCC.

I have always wondered why O Gauge did not have an Athern type company providing products. Is there some history that I'm not aware of?

[nitroboy]

Beeps and Williams. Thats all I buy these days unless its a post-war junker I can fix up.