Lionel to appeal

[okiechoochoo]

Rich called the Lawsuit thread a bunch of hot air. Actually, he might be right. I read all the posts. Not one post was by anyone who was at the trial, saw the evidence or anything like that. It was all speculation motivated by brand loyality in most cases. Nothing wrong with that and in my opinion he should have left it open so people can express their feeling. I was surprised he didn't boot me after I posted my thoughts. But anyway, I really just buy Lionel postwar and some Williams so I don't really have an interest except I sure don't want Lionel going under and I don't want the Lionel name on purple boxes

[Anonymous]

Melvin is a control freak. If he doesn't agree with something, he deletes it. That's not what a forum is all about.

OGR=[censored]

[willpick]

I actually thought that Rich would lock the lawsuit thread yesterday, when it really got heated between a few loyalists from both sides of the street. I think he was more tolerant than he usually is, he allowed the "discussion"[;)] to go on until it really just became a person to person bashfest.
After all, Lionel has said it will appeal, so until that process is completed, it's time to get back to talking trains, NOT lawsuits.

[RI Jim]

Jeez, I just check in here and I see the same old BS. Mr. Polska, Rich closed the thread and deleted at least one other because it got out of hand and ceased to serve any useful purpose, and he had every right to do so. Everyone should stop blowing hot air at each other and get back to talking about trains. [sigh]

[nblum]

It seems to me this is the biggest story in the hobby in the last twenty years, perhaps since *** Kughn bought Lionel. It's certaily rife with possibilities for speculation and rumor as well as thoughtful discussion. What could be more relevant to discuss about the future of the hobby? Personally I find it at least as interesting as any number of threads that routinely drone on for pages on the OGRR Forum. It's Rich's right to douse the flames, but they will pop up in many other places no doubt, so it's a rather futile effort except to keep bandwidth usage down. This is a story and debate that will not die until the final outcomes are set in stone, IMO.

[Anonymous]

The MTH vs. Lionel lawsuit is definately not a lot of hot air. We all feel very passionate about our hobby and all/any points of view concerning this trial should receive equal amounts of respect. After all, a real person took the time from his busy schedule to post and share his thoughts with others, and that is very important to keep in mind.

But to delete posts just because you don't agree with the poster's point of view. Or because you don't want an advertiser or potential advertiser to be the recepient of negative criticism is a big mistake. The majority of Forumites can see right through this selective enforcement of rules. What this does is align a mass of lobotomized zombies in your camp and releases the free thinkers to go elsewhere.

Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[johnnyc]

Well after reading all the different opinions on both forums I was really surprised I didn't see a link to this article , http://www.toytrainrevue.com/korea.htm . Go down to the bottom of the page and you'll find four links to the actual translated depositions of the Korean Brass employees . Very interesting reading IMHO .

johnnyc

[Anonymous]

The Korean transcripts don’t implicate Lionel .

What implicates Lionel is the they should have known that the drawings were produced much faster that any others before. The fact of how the CAD drawings came into the possession of K. B. only implicates the Koreans.

The link that MTH found is that Lionel never questioned how K.B. delivered so fast on the engines, etc.

The funny thing is that LIONEL could have reverse engineered the MTH engines; disassembled the MTH engines and re-measured the parts and produced all the drawings from the measurements. But this would have made them late to market.


Alan

[nblum]

Just a little reminder of a historical footnote. In the late 1990s, MTH managed to beat Atlas to market with the same model and road numbers of their first O gauge three rail diesel, and did the same exact thing to K-Line's first scale diesel. How did they do that? Inquiring minds would like to know since no legal wrestling ever occurred.

[GPJ68]

It's only "stealing" if someone gets caught :)

And just curious ('cause I must have read and forgot elsewhere), what are the time frames for the loco's that were involved, ie:

- When did MTH start the design phase (if known) and when did MTH first start production and sale.
- How long after did Lionel start production and sale?

Not that it matters since the jury has spoken, just curious. Are we talkin' years, months, or just weeks?

[FJ and G]

I'd like to find the $40.8 million MTH Big Boy that Lionel copied. It's gotta be the biggest collector's item ever. Do you think Lionel will put it up for auction to raise some money for their beleaguered company?

I'll start the bidding even tho I can't really afford it right now, at $1,000.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

Hey BillfromWayne,
Another free thinker here...just migrated...you speak the truth! Tom

[nblum]

Amongst the comments I've read this is one from an insider, Mort Mann of 3rd Rail/Sunset models:

"I have been reading with interest the response to the lawsuit to beat all lawsuits. I have been in this business for 29 years and I have dealt with the Korean companies for the same amount of time.
In the last 29 years Samhongsa has received dwgs and engine photos for thousands of prototype models from over 30 importers. None of the data left the factory it was copied and the originals returned., it was stolen by Samhongsa for use in building models for other builders. I know this is true because in some models we made htere was detail mistakes and these were repeated when the same model was built for another importer.
For Samhongs who stole so much to claim to be the injured party is really strange. What is even stranger it got to court in the first place.
Mort"

[garyseven]

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh!

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
I love ya Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!

[eZAK]

QUOTE: What this does is align a mass of lobotomized zombies in your camp and releases the free thinkers to go elsewhere.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have to have a frontal lobotomy"

QUOTE: It's only "stealing" if someone gets caught

How true! In the corporate world anything goes! Greed is Good!
I've worked trade shows and have seen many people taking pictures (of things they shouldn't) with their pocket cams and cell cams.
They ALL do it!

Who did What? When?
This thing is not over by a long shot.

[garyseven]

Who is the judge in the case?
Is there anything pertinent we can learn from previous rulings?
Does it go next to a Court of Appeals with multiple judges?
Is there anything pertinent we can learn from their previous rulings?
Can someone give us a layman's (or in my case, a big dumb guy's) timeline and primer of what to expect next?

[Anonymous]

I think Lionel's appeal is an understandable legal move, but not to get the verdict reversed but to get the award brought down and buy some time.
We have to remember they have secured debt to banks to the tune of thirty million dollars. I doubt if they are going to sit on their hands while Lionel peters away more time and money on not only more legal fees but also bonds to match the award and interest payments to an escro account. Lioel is already in arrears to their debtors.
Please see my post on the thread about the Lionel name. Myself and others have brought up some very interesting points on this topic.

Keep On Tracken,
Mario E.