Lionel to appeal

[jonadel]

David--

LOL about the timing of the meats and BB the Beagle. I recently heard a radio interview with the president of the Iowa Beef Cattlemen and the reporter asked him what was served at his house on a regular basis, his reply was "if it flies or swims, we don't eat it". You can really appreciate that if you been brought up on corn fed beef.

Time to go downstairs and play.

Jon

[Anonymous]

If the judge does not lower the judgement then I see big problems for Lionel. The payments alone could
send Lionel into a spiral. Mike's comments about the diminished business and past layoffs probably were
self-inflicted by expanding too fast.

[Jim Duda]

Finally! Some useful, empirical "evidence"...!

Try a dish of Tofu...

[FJ and G]

I discussed the outcome of The Great lawsuit of the century with BB the Beagle last night and she just yawned.

She's much more interested in the world of meat.

As matter of fact, I've been timing her wind sprints to various types of meat and set up a course in the backyard, that is 15 yards long.

At the start line, I give BB a sniff of meat so she knows what to expect. Following this, tail rotates, tongue extends and drool.

Then, I toss the meat so that it hits the back gate and drops in the precise location.

Speeds clocked thus far by category of meat:

Pork: 5 seconds
Chicken: 6 seconds
Hamburger: 6 seconds
Fish (Albacore placed inside broken tennis ball): 7 seconds

Dave Vergun

[FJ and G]

I wonder if the price on the Acela will now go from $2k to $4K?

Or, will Lionel Christmas bonuses get ax'd?

[Anonymous]

Who cares.......The topic is getting very old.
What the hell is use for talking about it.
Don't anyone know that we modelers are going to pay deep out of our own pockets for this now, so stop crying,it'e only going to get worse!
BNSFfan.

[cnw1995]

It does look like something illegal occured in Korea. This is a big hit though. I remember CTT mentioning our part of the hobby market to be estimated at about $90 million - I wonder what will happen to Lionel. I am concerned that something like this will severely impact the benefits we've reaped as hobbyists from competition.

[Anonymous]

Brian W:

For me, the reason I said I would switch to HO if Lionel were to become owned by MTH has to do with MTH's behavior regarding DCC and patenting the technologies others have developed as part of DCS. There are a large number of people who have spent years developing DCC and none of them patented any of their work, in the spirit of collaboration & doing what's best for the hobby. Along comes MTH and they use that body of work & then patent it? That just ain't right.

You can say that stealing MTH's design isn't right either, and you'd be right. According to the jury, Lionel knowingly used plans that were stolen and so profited. Lionel's going to have to pay something back to MTH.

But you want to talk about greed? Patenting something you didn't invent and then forcing the people who did invent it to pay you royalties for [b]their own work]/b] takes a lot of gall.

And then again, Mike Wolff's comments about buying what is essentially a cultural icon & dissolving it for his profit turn me off. I've never met the man, but so far I've found little in him to like.

Tony

[ChiefEagles]

Alan, you finally admitted you screw widows and orphans out of their inheritance. Told you I'd let you slide last night. [:D] I think the lawyer conspiracy is nuts. I hope no one believes that. Alan, wait until they get in a "bind" and the lawyer is their best friend then. [;)]

[Anonymous]

does vegas have the odds in yet?...
who will raise prices first. [X-)]
MTH or Lionel? [%-)]

who cares? [:(]

it all smell of sour grapes and dirty pool to me [V]

howsa' bout making trains at a reasonable cost...[sigh]

[Anonymous]

All I want to do is drink a beer and run trains!!!!,,,,,And listen to some good music! I'm not gonna' let them bad ole' lawers ruin my fun.
If Lionel goes away and MTH and all the others are still around,,,,,,,Life still is good!!!

[daan]

Hey Alan, that's not a big advertisement for your job is it?
Brave to talk like that when you have a job in the scene..

[Anonymous]

It the future to save both time and thinking lets agree to add another abbreviation:

How about BFGLC= BIG FAT GREEDY LAWYER CONSPIRACY! because in every lawsuit known to man or woman there is a BFGLC, you know where the lawyers on both sides have agreed to screw everyone either directly or indirectly connected with the lawsuit out of every last cent from the beginning of the earth to the end of time.

When a lawsuit is filed in court it is a BFGLC that brings it; the client has nothing whatsoever to do with bringing it either they are just there so we can put a name on the lawsuit; And as to the defendant, we make them do the bad act so we can charge huge fees to defend them. Here Lionel's lawyers saw an opportunity to make huge fees and told LIONEL to wink and nod when the these drawings appeared out of nowhere within a few days of giving them the order to make competeing MTH engines. (Wink! Nod!) I suspect that both MTH's and LIONEL's lawyers met years before the matter was filed at the BAR.

Recall the BAR we lawyers talk about, well here's the truth about it I'll share the secret with you my forum friends: In advance, ALL the lawyers of the world meet a few times a year. We all sit together in a BAR and we decide who will be sued and for what amount; this just saves time. In addition, both the judge and jury are all bought off as part of the BFGLC; You might know this having ever sat on a Jury that the lawyers, as part of a BFGLC, have bribed you to decide their way.. What you did not know is that the Judge gets into a bidding war with both sides; and in this matter MTH paid the judge more money.

The trial is a sham because the outcome is known in advance and decided as part of the BFGLC. But for the sake of the Media we go through the Motions.
When an award is awarded it is, you guessed it, all part of a BFGLC.

I hope this saves time for all of you in the future so you don't need to ever think about these confusing legal matters that arise in this forum; just assume the above took place and use BFGLC to simply and easily describe the situation and then with minimum thought expended on your part, you can get back to trains or whatever.

Always happy to oblige.
Alan

[daan]

Another thing, apart from the fact that no company should steal ideas from another, why didn't MTH protect their blueprints from getting stolen? I mean, if they are on a company computer someone must have broken in and copy the files without MTH knowing it. To get behind a company computer, someone from MTH must have accepted an amount of money to copy the stuff, or someone from Lionel must have cleaned their wastebaskets and found a drawing.
If it can cost you 40 million if the drawings get stolen, you should protect them. The fact that another company can build an engine with your drawings is the proof that you didn't protect things too well.
Apart from that MTH has got rights from Lionel to reproduce their postwar, if they lawsuit Lionel because of lost money, they also should tell the judges that they also earn a lot of money because of Lionel's postwar copies.
Stealing is no good, but 40 million because some are so stupid to leave drawings up in the open..???

[dougdagrump]

Personally I like both of their products but unfortunately both are overpriced and customer service doesn't measure up. If the awards stand guess what, prices will more than likely go up for both of them. Lionel to pay the the award and MTH to pad the profits.
Just call me cynical ! [|(]

[darth9x9]

I am certainly no fan of MTH (with the QSI law suit and all) but I did work for Mike Wolf part time while attending UMBC in the late 80’s. So I am familiar with the internal workings of MTH. MTH spent some serious R&D on a locomotive (and I can’t remember the model right now) and then they finally released it. Less than three months later, Lionel released the exact same loco. It was a clear case of corporate espionage. I am really surprised that Lionel thought they could get away with it. What is really interesting is that there is still a container full of those Lionel locos that haven’t been accounted for……

[Anonymous]

You know, back in the 1800's, some railroads did some things....

[garyseven]

What disturbs me more than the verdict, payout or whatever the future may bring is that Lionel has remained silent - "unavailable for comment." No spokesman, no lead attorney, no marketing director, not even an unnamed executve talking on background... this tells me there is currently an absence of directional leadership at the top of Lionel. No one to rally us - the loyal customer base. These are critical hours for damage control. Look at all the emotional speculation it has caused here... Furthermore it is a look inside what is currently going on inside Lionel tonight as you read this. My guess - serious confusion.
That, my friends, should distrub you too.

But, as they say, tomarrow is another day.

[eZAK]

AHHHHH!!!

Corperate Greed at it's best!

And YOU thought Lionel and MTH were above UP! HA.

[Anonymous]

This case isn't over yet. The evidence will be revisited by the Judge, and if that holds up, he will check out the possibility of an inappropriate penalty based on MTH's earnings over several years, seeing what the income and profit levels were and will either keep the penalty or lower it, or if he feels that the award is insufficient he will increase it. I do, however, hope that the jury did not base the guilty finding on the "should have known" part, that to me seems to be a very tough thing to prove. Lionel will survive this, as badly as Mike wants to hurt Lionel, or possibly take control of the company, he's blowing smoke and having "pipe dreams"!

Just my two cents..[:)] Happy railroading and be well.

dobba2000
Bob Dobbins

[ChiefEagles]

Alan [sorry for misspelling your name above], did not know you were a lawyer. Will not tell any lawyer jokes on you tonight [you've heard them all I'm sure]. My whole family is made up with lawyers and judges. I love to give them a hard time. I am not a lawyer, just a retired state bureaucrat. I'll get you later. [:D]

[Anonymous]

OF COURSE THE LAWYERS WIN! WE ALWAYS WIN
WHO ELSE IS THERE!..... Wolfe??, MTH

(except if you happen to be LIONEL's Lawyers they lost the case... but wait they got paid too. So you're RIGHT the Lawyers always win!!

And LIONEL's taking of Wolfe's designs, yep it wasn't Lionel it was Lionel's lawyers that did that. so they could garner fees in a lawsuit. Hey maybe Lionel's lawyers had a big fat greedy secret conspiracy with MTH's lawyers to file this lawsuit in the first place.!!

that's why I just love this profession.

HA! WHY should any of you win ... you did nothing but complaint for 4 years!!

Alan

[ChiefEagles]

Dr. John and Allan are right. The lawyers win. Was telling my town atty about it tonight before Town Board and she said they will get 1/3. [V]

[overall]

If Lionel goes bankrupt over this, I will probably never buy another MTH product again. I will never see my MTH products the same way again either. I will go with Williams or Weaver or K-Line but not MTH. Lionel probably does owe MTH something if what Mr. Wolf says is true, but not anywhere near $ 40 million.

George

[Buckeye Riveter]

I would be very surprised if a toy train company can take a $50,000,000 hit.

From my observations of other companies over the years taking large hits, Chapter 11 will be filed for protection from MTH. This is similar to a case here in Ohio several years ago when a county successfully won a very large judgment against an architectural firm. The day after the verdict, the architects used the bankruptcy laws to protect themselves. In the long run, they screwed up [B)] and finally were forced by the Federal Court in Cleveland to file Chapter 13 and now they don’t exist and the county only received pennies on the dollar. [:(] Where the assets of the company finally ended up, is another story for another day.

If the lights are on at Lionel corporate headquarters tonight, something is brewing.

[Anonymous]

You're right, the greedy lawyers win and we in the hobby LOSE!

[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]

Maybe it's about time for me to go to Z scale. Bigboy, are you coming with me?
[C):-)]

[Kooljock1]

If I were a conspiracy nut...and I'm not saying I am...I would wonder about the odds of a set-up.

But again, I'm not a conspiracy nut.

Jon [8D]

[Dr. John]

In the end . . .

the lawyers win!

[Anonymous]

Lionel.... MTH.....

We, the consumer, have access to the best model trains manufactured in China and Korea. Who is honestly concerned about what middlemans' brand name is on the retail box for these imported products?

[Anonymous]

let's see $12,000,0000/$700 say the profit per train so thats what
the jury must have figured on sales of 17,143 train enginess MTH did not sell because of LIONEL's theft and about the same in future sales

Does that seem right that LNL cost them 35,000 high end engine sales ???

Alan