Wide Gauge
Passenger Cars
#4331 Pullman
1931 -1936
There are only two variations of this car listed in the Greenberg guide. They match the two observations that are shown back a few entries.
Variation (A)
Variation (B)
And a comparison photo:
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
No worries Becky! The biggest giveaway is the third "plaque" under the center window on the Colonel, along with the additional brass bits, however, I have seen a President with the three plaques, but many of these sets were Frankensteined to cobble a decent looking, albeit non-original set.
If my pic blows up on your end, you may also note that the cars have four vs. six-wheel trucks, which is not correct either. The second set of Pres cars behind the piper is as it should be.
I know I have some Colonel cars packed away somewhere that I will dig out, no engine though, however.
Thanks,
Jeff
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the locomotive itself which had a different paint scheme than the President's Special.
Col:
Pres:
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
#4332 Observation
1931 - 1936
There were two variations of this car during its run in the catalog.
Variation
(A)
The primary identifiers are decal doors, a clear circle in the brass platform railing and white painted number identification on the bottom of the car.
Primary identifiers: Brass doors, no hole in the platform railing and black number identifer stamped on the bottom.
Some comparison photos:
Oops, you are of course correct, it's the Presidents Special, got my names mixed, sorry about that.
If the set has litho cars, it cannot be a Flying Colonel set. The Flying Colonel set always had enamel painted cars.
Thanks all!
You nailed it, Becky. The engine has been repainted unfortunatel, and the litho is rough, but I dig "use". It's an awesome reminder that these were, and shall always be, toys.
I believe John DeSantis said it best, that he feels sorry for mint trains, as they didn't get the enjoyment they deserve.
Thanks for the note! Jeff
Great collection Spanners! A feast for the eyes!
Is that the Flying Colonel on the second from the top shelf?
Becky
Northwoods Flyeryou will find things that you forgot you had
Aint it funny how that just happens?
Hi Jeff,
to the thread.
Thanks for posting the photos. You have some great trains there from a variety of manufacturers. I can tell you have been gathering your wares for a considerable amount of time. I hope that you will share more of your photos with us. If you are going through your collection I am sure that you will find things that you forgot you had. I know I have.
Northwoods Fyer
Hello!
I've been living under a rock as of late but thought I'd share my wares. I'm fully addicted to tinplate / prewar bits but am a "rubber gauger" - as most of us toy folks are!
I'll add more pics as I go through stuff, and you may notice that there are sets behind sets, so I'll rotate the same around if of interest. Everything works as intended and gets run often.
Thanks for starting this thread (those many years ago!!).
Hi Penny,
The Ives steamer is indeed a beautiful model. You can see why Flyer was eager to have it join their roster after the bankruptcy. This is what Flyer did with it in 1929 and 1930 before they designed a steam engine of their own.
and paired it with their Pocahantas cars.
The brass piper is Fyer's own design.
Improving the detail on the Ives engine may have helped them, however I have read that some of their problems were caused by the large amount of handwork that went into making their trains and the policy of taking their products back if the customer was not satisfied. They sometimes replaced broken items with a brand new piece of equipment.
BTW I really like the Ives Circus set too.
I've always wondered if Ives had put the same level of detail on the original model as Flyer ended up doing later on if it wouldn't have helped Ives fortunes a bit. Don't get me wrong, I love the Ives versions, especially the Circus Train:
http://www.ivestrains.org/
Fifedog love Piper
4696 Brass Piper Engine and Tender
1931 - 1935
After posting the previous entries of Wide Gauge freight cars I thought it was time to post motive power that might have pulled them.
The 4696 is the number used for the combination of the 4695 locomotive
and the 4693 Vanderbilt tender.
I think this is one of the most beautiful combinations that Flyer put together.
Ken's post just showed up today, and here are his photos of the car he found.
I picked up an interesting car today. It is a red 8 1/2" observation with type X trucks and VIIc couplers. It has a small brass framed window between the brass door and the strip of 6 brass framed windows on the fireman's side, but is missing that window on the opposite side. So that would make this car half a 3177c for having the window, and half a 3177b for not having it, if I am interpreting Schuweiler's guide correctly.
i can't post pictures here using my phone, but I will foreword them to Northwoods and hopefully he can post them.
Ken
JonEddy Nationwidelines I would suspect that it is a 211 Bridge, listed on page 88 of Greenbergs, which is described as 28 inches long, as the 213 Bridge is slightly different and does not have the black ties or American Flyer tags on it. NWL Thanks, I believe your right, I have seen a few of each on eBay since I posted these pics. It would help if the Greenberg book had actual pictures of the bridges, not to mention there isn't even a drawing of the 211. Jon
Nationwidelines I would suspect that it is a 211 Bridge, listed on page 88 of Greenbergs, which is described as 28 inches long, as the 213 Bridge is slightly different and does not have the black ties or American Flyer tags on it. NWL
Thanks, I believe your right, I have seen a few of each on eBay since I posted these pics. It would help if the Greenberg book had actual pictures of the bridges, not to mention there isn't even a drawing of the 211.
Jon
You think the guide is bad for Bridges, you should try and figure out American Flyer Tunnels, using the guide. I have 20+ different Flyer prewar tunnels and the guide describes only a few of the standard gauge tunnels.
NWL
Northwoods FlyerNice finds Jon.
NationwidelinesI would suspect that it is a 211 Bridge, listed on page 88 of Greenbergs, which is described as 28 inches long, as the 213 Bridge is slightly different and does not have the black ties or American Flyer tags on it. NWL
Jon.
I knew that I recognized the tag used on your bridge:
JonEddy
It was also used on the 6-1/2 inch 1146 Log car from 1928-1929
It was also used on the 9-1/2 inch 3006 American Flyer RR Log Car 1926-1927. I can't find a photo of my car, but it is shown on page 182 of Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge.
4017 Sand Car (Variation K)
Here is a variation of the very common 4017 sand car.
And here is a photo of a portion of page 70 of the Greenberg Guide by Schuweiler that describes this car.
And some additional photos of my 4017(K)
Back in 1989 when the Guide was copywrited there were No Reported Sales of this car. I personally know of one sale since then.
JonEddy I went to a train swap meet here at the Museum of Transportation here in St Louis this morning and found this beauty! From what I have seen in the Greenberg gude it is a variation of the 213 bridge but it doesn't look like it ever had a watchman's tower attached to it. it measures 27-1/2 inches by 9 inches tall by 6-1/2 inches tall. It's better than any of the bridges I've seen on eBay and less than half the price. I hate to brag but I have an awesome wife who let me get it. Surpisingly I found a bag of AF O gauge "junk" marked for 5 bucks, the guy threw it in the deal for the #104 Kenilworth station pictured below. It had 3 trucks and wheels for passenger\stock cars a ladder, a caboose railing, and a top to maybe a derrick car? see pics below. I think there was another Kenilworth Station and a station 96 there as well. Jon
I went to a train swap meet here at the Museum of Transportation here in St Louis this morning and found this beauty! From what I have seen in the Greenberg gude it is a variation of the 213 bridge but it doesn't look like it ever had a watchman's tower attached to it. it measures 27-1/2 inches by 9 inches tall by 6-1/2 inches tall. It's better than any of the bridges I've seen on eBay and less than half the price. I hate to brag but I have an awesome wife who let me get it. Surpisingly I found a bag of AF O gauge "junk" marked for 5 bucks, the guy threw it in the deal for the #104 Kenilworth station pictured below. It had 3 trucks and wheels for passenger\stock cars a ladder, a caboose railing, and a top to maybe a derrick car? see pics below. I think there was another Kenilworth Station and a station 96 there as well.
I would suspect that it is a 211 Bridge, listed on page 88 of Greenbergs, which is described as 28 inches long, as the 213 Bridge is slightly different and does not have the black ties or American Flyer tags on it.
JonEddy I went to a train swap meet here at the Museum of Transportation here in St Louis this morning and found this beauty! From what I have seen in the Greenberg gude it is a variation of the 213 bridge but it doesn't look like it ever had a watchman's tower attached to it. it measures 27-1/2 inches by 9 inches tall by 6-1/2 inches tall. Jon
I went to a train swap meet here at the Museum of Transportation here in St Louis this morning and found this beauty! From what I have seen in the Greenberg gude it is a variation of the 213 bridge but it doesn't look like it ever had a watchman's tower attached to it. it measures 27-1/2 inches by 9 inches tall by 6-1/2 inches tall. Jon
Nice finds Jon.
I have several of the Wide Gauge bridges in my collection, including three of the 27-1/2 inch bridges and one of the longer bridges. Two of them have brass tags. None of them match the descriptions of the bridges in the Greenberg guide. None of them have any evidence of ever having the watchman's house mounted on the top. I have always found that portion of the Greenberg guide inadequate and confusing. All of the short bridges are in storage at the moment. The long bridge is available and I will post some photos later.
Here is a correct 4023 Log Car
Note that correct log cars have pins to hold the log load in place.
The Greenberg guide does list and show a version of the log car that has four 4022 plates on it, but that and the one pictured above are the only versions of the standard gauge log car listed in Greenbergs.
Northwoods Flyer Wide Gauge # 4022 Machinery Car 1928 - 1933 Earlier in the thread I posted the 4023 Log Car. It is the version that has two 4022 plates and carries the block of wood. This is the #4022 Machinery Car that has the correct number tags on it. I believe this to be the #4022 that Schuweiler identifies as version (A). The only thing that isn't quite right is that my example has only one black stanchion with a brakewheel. Schuweiler's has two. My example is packed away at the moment so I can't examine it to see if it may have lost the second brakewheel. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
# 4022 Machinery Car
1928 - 1933
Earlier in the thread I posted the 4023 Log Car. It is the version that has two 4022 plates and carries the block of wood.
This is the #4022 Machinery Car that has the correct number tags on it. I believe this to be the #4022 that Schuweiler identifies as version (A). The only thing that isn't quite right is that my example has only one black stanchion with a brakewheel. Schuweiler's has two. My example is packed away at the moment so I can't examine it to see if it may have lost the second brakewheel.
I am not sure that your version with the Machinery Car number plates would be correct with a block of wood on it. Machinery cars typically do not have a load on them.
There is a true 4023 log car, which has 2 American Flyer plates and 4023 rubber stamped on the bottom.
Earlier in the thread I posted what I thought was the 4023 Log Car. (1932 - 1934) It is close to the version(Variation B) that has two 4022 plates and carries the block of wood. The 6 Million tags make it questionable as to being correct.
NationwidelinesI think possibly your switch has been modified with a new housing with lights, as it does not quite look correct. The main reason it does not look correct is that the housing with the lights appears to partially cover the American Flyer name-plate.
JonEddy This is the closest I have found online to the switches I have but even they don't have the cover or lights.
This is the closest I have found online to the switches I have but even they don't have the cover or lights.
JonEddy,
I think possibly your switch has been modified with a new housing with lights, as it does not quite look correct. The main reason it does not look correct is that the housing with the lights appears to partially cover the American Flyer name-plate.
The switch you found a photo of on-line, is a very short-lived switch style to my knowledge, simply based on the fiber-board style switch lever. The switch would have been lighted, with the lights being contained in one portion of the die-cast housing.
Unfortunately, the die-cast housings on this style of switch are rarely found intact. Here is a similar switch in O gauge. Note there are two die-cast pieces, a cast base and a cast light housing.
The bottom die-cast piece was also used on some free-standing on-off type switches, which I am not certain what they were actually used for. Possibly remote switches, but I am not certain, as I have only seen this single set of controllers.
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