Wide Gauge
#4685 (1929 - 1930)
St. Paul-Style Cab Electric
This engine appeared in the catalog in 1929 and 1930. In 1929 it had no ringing bell , and in 1930 it was upgraded with a ringing bell. This is the 1929 version.
The engine has plenty of brass.
Each end has an "American Flyer Lines" plate near the top.
In 1929 the #4685 headed up The Lone Scout. Set #1494 (see the red outlined box in the catalog illustration)
So lets take a closer look at this set.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Great looking sets guys! Thanks!
Regards, Roy
Northwoods,
The 19 not being stamped on the label is correct. I have a couple of boxes from this era that have the number stamped on the box instead of the label, exactly like yours. Not sure that the S stand for. I have not observed that previously.
NWL
Narrow Gauge
1939 - No. 19 Train Set
O Gauge Switcher
Here is the story behind this set and the "S"s
The set as I have it today is the result of two purchases. The train equipment came as one purchase. I have wanted a 429 switcher for a long time and the entire set became available at a reasonable price. It ran around the Christmas tree last year and delighted our grandson.
Surprisingly the boxes became available from another source in a different part of the country. I have been bringing together pieces of sets for my entire collecting career. It is unusual for me to buy boxes, however this just seemed like the right thing to do. The only thing that concerned me was that the set box did not appear to be marked with the set number.
When the boxes arrived each of the individual boxes was marked appropriately.
The set box had shipping information stamped on it.
It was shipped from the A.C. Gilbert Company to Wm. H. Hoegee Co. - a sporting goods store - in Los Angeles.
Alas, the space on the box label that would usually have the set number was blank.
A closer examination shows the stamp "19 S" on the upper left corner of the box above the label.
I am making the assumption that it is stamped for Set 19. I'm not sure where the S comes from, however remember all of the individual boxes except the caboose have an extra S stamped on them.
Does anyone know if this was a common practice? I do not have many complete boxed sets with their original set boxes to have seen this before.
Set No. 19 has been reunited with its boxes.
This is one of the things I love about this hobby.
Here we are at the last car in this train. And of course it is the last car of every freight train in this era of railroading.
A caboose is probably the easiest car to find of any in American Flyer rolling stock.
This is the #411. It comes with a light. This car was always fun to watch at eye level as it travelled around the Christmas Tree.
Here it is with its box.
Oddly, this box does not have an "S" stamped on it.
And now our Switcher set is complete.
Next up will be a proposed explanation for all of those "S" stamps.
We have now reached the penultimate car in this set;
The #408 Box Car
Here we have a portrait with its box.
If we hadn't been following the presence of an "S" on all of these boxes a person might think that there is more than one car in this box.
And here we are one step closer to the complete set and the solution to the mystery of the "S".
Northwoods Flyer Jeff, I think that the decal on your engine is original. Being that it is a decal I am sure that some of them may have been placed a bit differently. From what I can tell from your photo and from the photos of other "4321" engines that I have seen I think it is original. The "4321" decal was only used in 1938, the first year that the 0-6-0 switcher was cataloged. The engine number is 4321 (Type XIV die-cast swithcher), the tender is number 4320 (Type XIV tender) and the combination is the #4621 Locomotive-Tender Combination. You have to love Fyer's numbering system. I am not sure that your engine and tender started out life together The white decal with black lettering is from 1940 according to Schuweiler. But who knows for sure. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Jeff,
I think that the decal on your engine is original. Being that it is a decal I am sure that some of them may have been placed a bit differently. From what I can tell from your photo and from the photos of other "4321" engines that I have seen I think it is original.
The "4321" decal was only used in 1938, the first year that the 0-6-0 switcher was cataloged. The engine number is 4321 (Type XIV die-cast swithcher), the tender is number 4320 (Type XIV tender) and the combination is the #4621 Locomotive-Tender Combination. You have to love Fyer's numbering system.
I am not sure that your engine and tender started out life together The white decal with black lettering is from 1940 according to Schuweiler. But who knows for sure.
I would suspect his engine and tender did not start out together, simply because his tender has the wrong coupler on it for 1938.
My original 1938 tender does have white lettering and black background.
I think it's a redo based on its location on the cab, but looking at your printed advert, it is moved more forward in that picture as well. Thoughts?
This is a great write-up, NW, thanks for adding.
I am going to post a picture of my '4321' 0-6-0, as I'd love your feedback as to if you think the decal on the locomotive is original or a redo.
Keep the goodness coming!
Jeff
The next car in the consist is a Tank Car.
This is the #410 Tank Car
Here it is with its box
Aha! Another "S"
And the set is begining to take shape
Addendum:
This set was cataloged in 1939 and 1940. In 1940 this car was still numbered 410 but it was called an Oil Car. Back in June of 2013 I posted photos of both cars and and their boxes. I am reposting those photos here.
Notice that one dome is brass and the other is nickle.
1939 Box
1940 Box
According to the catalog illustration the next car in this set is the #412 (Borden's) Milk Car.
Here is the car:
And here it is posing with its box:
Hmmmm There is that "S" again.
So lets add the Milk Car to the consist.
Lets start building this set from the head end with the O-6-0 Yard King Switcher.
Flyer's odd numbering system frequently gave the engine one number, the tender a second number, and the combination a third number.
So we have the #429 engine (Type XIV engine)
the #430 tender
(it has vestiges of the rubber stamped identification that have worn off in the indentations on the side)
and the combination which is #431
Here are the two pieces with their original boxes.
Notice the S on the box. That will be important later.
The tender box is marked 430 Tender. It is difficult to see, but in the proper light and angle you can make it out.
The Hamiltonian
1928 - 1929
The set appeared in the 1928 catalog
(Wouldn't it be nice if the Presidents Special was made in both blue and red that year?)
and the 1929 catalog
Thanks Penny,
Its always nice to see photos of the prototypes that our toy trains were supposed to represent.
I've always liked the boxcabs. There's still one surviving NYC T Motor:
By Sturmovik at English Wikipedia, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=56332954
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
#4678 New York Central style locomotive
Variation B
1928 -1929
This is the locomotive used in the Hamiltonian set. It heads up the cars shown in the posts above.
It has lots of brass, die cast headlights that have the correct engine number, and a ringing bell mechanism.
Bottom views showing the bell mechanism and other goodies.
Passenger Cars
#4340 Club Car
(Variation D - there is another variation that has a darker red baggage door that matches the darker red roof color)
from the Hamiltonian Set
1928 -1932
This set is from early in my collecting days. It was purchased sight unseen from a typed list. It was not in as good of condition as I thought it would be. On line auction buying is so much better.
Note the two cam locking devices for the roof and the opening brass doors and the opening baggage door.
LL675,
Hi Dave, its good to hear from you. If anyone appreciates a restored steamer, its you.
#4341 Pullman (Variation D)
1928 - 1932
From the Hamiltonian Set
that restored steamer is beautiful!
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
#4342 Observation (Variation D)
From the Hamiltonian set
Awesome pieces, gals, and guys!
For something a little different, here is the tale of one-and-three-quarters (AF) Prewar Hudson's...
American Flyer Prewar O gauge is simply glorious. There are many categories, all of which deserve attention, but this post highlights the bigger O gauge Hudson locomotives (next I'll highlight the Northern's) and the precursor to the fantastic and omnipresent, 3/16th's scale / S gauge Postwar offerings after Gilbert took over.
The 2-6-4 "Hudson" - Locomotive # 1681 - Circa 1936-1938, featuring an aluminum tender, and simple bar couplers (please disregard the missing journal cover on the trailing truck):
The great thing about almost all Prewar locomotives, regardless of manufacture, is the crude motor design, somewhat sloppy tolerances, but incredibly, if properly lubed, nearly silent operation, notice the firebox glow, per usual:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187546244@N08/49730116442/in/dateposted-public/
Fast-forward approx. two years to 1940, Gilbert is now at the helm, and Lionel is the ever-present target for market share in toy-trains. The fantastic 700E set the benchmark for realism in O Scale, and Gilbert brings out a Hudson numbered 570, being 3/16th's scale, however, it's running on O gauge track. I think you'll recognize the casting.. ;-)
Notice the bulbous tender trucks, although from a casting standpoint, identical in appearance to the later S gauge variant that would show up Postwar, six years later and the reverse unit in the boiler, located in the same spot as the later smoke-in-tenders in S gauge would end up (same casting).
Here again, the locomotive literally runs like a sewing machine, nearly silent. I should note that the T-Rail track it's running on, is not fastened down, and under the carpet is Hommasote:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187546244@N08/49730138157/in/dateposted-public/
And there you have it, your "useless knowledge of the day", brought to you from the sheltered-in-place, in beautiful Colorado!
Thanks for listening and more to come!
Northwoods FlyerThanks for posting your new acquisition. Have fun with it.
No, I suspect the castings with the pierced fireboxes lasted until around 1933, as there are other differences to the castings other than the cast headlight visor. I suspect they just changed the mold at some point to remove the pierced firebox.
NWL,
I thought that the 1931 #3300's (#3301) had a headlight visor. Do you suppose that the pierced fireboxes with a brass headlight ring are castings left over from 1931? I have been looking for a 3301 with the visor to head up my Ambassador cars. I realize that finding one with the origianl die cast valve gear is very unlikely.
Northwoods Flyer I believe this one is unusual because there are holes in the skirting that allow the firebox light to show through I have not run across another one. Northwoods Flyer
I believe this one is unusual because there are holes in the skirting that allow the firebox light to show through I have not run across another one.
The lighted firebox is a feature of the earlier engines. I have four 3300 engines from 1931 in my collection and all of them have lighted fireboxes with the holes in the sides of the firebox. Some of my other 3325 engines also have the lighted fireboxes, but I cannot specifically date those years. The other engines which I can date are from 1935 or after and do not have the holes in their fireboxes.
Spanners,
I agree with Roy, thanks for posting the photos of your collection. Keep them coming.
Jon,
The Type VIII engines (1931 - 1937) are among my favorite. I think I have at least 4 of them. One of them is in a family set that ran around our Christmas tree for years.
I watched this one with my head on the living room carpet for years.
I particularly like it paired up with the semi-Vanderbilt tender as yours is.
This one came with a set of Man of War cars.
This one was an impulse buy. It was on ebay and has been completely restored. The firebox light and the ringing bell both work as well as the headlight. It makes me think of what these engines must have looked like when new on Christmas morning.
Thanks for posting your new acquisition. Have fun with it.
I just got this delivered yesterday, AF O-gauge 3325 with 3323 tender. It has some play wear but everything works even the firebox light.
Jon
Spanners - thx for posting!
All -
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