Reposting - 9 1/2 inch litho gondolas
The big 9 1/2 inch litho gondolas of the American Flyer lineup were first offered in the 1925 catalog. They were sold separately and they were also included in two sets - one in 1925 and one in 1926. Their last year for sale was 1927. In 1928 they, along with the rest of the lithoed 9 1/2 series, were replaced with enameled cars with brass plates. Unlike the enameled series, Flyer never made a matching 9 1/2 inch litho caboose. It was indeed a case of "the little red- 6 1/2 inch - caboose behind (the large lithoed car) train."
The four gondolas were
Pennsylvania
Reposting - American Flyer 5 1/2 inch lithoed gondolas
Since the pictures from the earlier years of this thread appear to be gone for good I thought I'd try, as time permits, to copy some of my earlier posts and add in the original pictures.
The 5 1/2 inch American Flyer gondolas were produced from 1914-1935. The first version was just a simple gondola with plain red sides and no markings. This style ran through 1916. In 1917 things began to change first with a brown litho and yellow rivets and then with the style below - the same treatment as the first of the 6 1/2 inch cars.
I thought that I would mention that the most recent edition of the TCA Quarterly (July 2021 - Vol. 67, No.3)
has a great 4 page article by John Cardwell on the Double Header Set.
Articles like this and the one by Rob English are good reasons to become a member of the TCA.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Jon,
The #420 and all of its cousins are powerful little machines.
The powered engine in my tripple header is able to pull the 2 dummies and their tenders as well as the cars in the 1939 Mountain Red Ball.
Here is my engine and dummy unit cleaned up. I am waiting on a light ferrule for the dummy unit right now and also the 420's left linkage was damaged so I'm waiting on that too. Northwoods, does your 420 have enough power to pull the tripple header and three cars?
Jon
Northwoods Flyer,
Thanks for posting the photos. I really think this is a cool set and I can't wait until I get mine cleaned up and on the track.
Jon contacted me privately and asked for a photo of the double header engines.
This is one of my favorite sets.
PS I even have a triple header
Thanks Jon, this is most likely a 1933-1934 4694 combo (4692 loco/4693 tender) The bell ringer 4692 was only in the Century set in 1933, and in the Old ironsides and Iron Monarch set in 1934, the last year catalogued.
Catalog Covers and Backs
I have found that one of the most valuable tools for helping to build a collection is the original catalogs that American Flyer produced. The information may not always be the most accurate but the illustrations and set listings gave me something to go on when assembling sets. These covers have been scattered throughout the thread however with the loss of many of the photos from the early days of the thread I thought I would re-post the covers and back pages all in one spot. The art work is the stuff that dreams are made of. Some of my examples are reproductions.
1926
1927
1928
1929
1930
1931
1932
1933
1934
1935
1936
1937
(same art work as 1931)
1938
The beginning of the Gilbert era
1939
1940
1941
Northwoods Flyer Hi Major, Thanks for the reply. I haven't handled very many of Flyer's Wide Gauge steamers so all I have to go on are the photos and descriptions in the Greenberg Guide. I went back and took another look at my engine and the descriptions. I think that I have it narrowed down to the #4694(c) engine and tender combo. The engine is a 4692x with a 4693 Vanderbilt tender. The (c) variation has the lighted firebox and a ringing bell although it does not have a swinging bell. The engine also has cast steps painted gold and a brass feed water header that were used on the brass piper version. I suppose Flyer was up to their old tricks of using up the parts they had on hand. Could you check your son's engine to see what characteristics it has? Thanks, Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Hi Major,
Thanks for the reply. I haven't handled very many of Flyer's Wide Gauge steamers so all I have to go on are the photos and descriptions in the Greenberg Guide. I went back and took another look at my engine and the descriptions. I think that I have it narrowed down to the #4694(c) engine and tender combo.
The engine is a 4692x with a 4693 Vanderbilt tender. The (c) variation has the lighted firebox and a ringing bell although it does not have a swinging bell.
The engine also has cast steps painted gold and a brass feed water header that were used on the brass piper version.
I suppose Flyer was up to their old tricks of using up the parts they had on hand.
Could you check your son's engine to see what characteristics it has?
Thanks,
My son has one exactly like the locomotive pictured.
Triangular Valve Gear Engine with a #4693 Wide Gauge Tender
That is about the best that I can do in identifying this engine.
I have compared it to the photos in the Greenberg Guide and the descriptions given for each type of the Wide Gauge steamers. The only thing that I am sure of is the tender because it is stamped 4693 on the bottom.
It has characteristics of the Triangular Valve Gear engines (the running gear obviously) and it also has characteristics of the Brass Piper Locomotives.
Thanks for the info, It helps a lot!
Northwoods Flyer Hi Jon, Sorry for the delay in getting the information to you. Here is the catalog information from the 1931 Catalog on the #1477 Governor set. I hope this helps. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Hi Jon,
Sorry for the delay in getting the information to you. Here is the catalog information from the 1931 Catalog on the #1477 Governor set.
I hope this helps.
Northwoods Flyer Jon, Your Monroe set looks great. The Wide Gauge steamers all look fantastic. Here is the listing from the 1931 catalog. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Your Monroe set looks great. The Wide Gauge steamers all look fantastic.
Here is the listing from the 1931 catalog.
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing the catalog info, I will hopefully have my other 4670 up and running soon.
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Here is a 1931 Wide gauge #1475 Monroe Set featuring the 4670 type(A) engine and 4671 tender to go with the 4017 Sand Car and 4011 caboose. I got this set in bad shape mechanically last summer and finally got it up and running. The side rods were incorrect when I got it and they promptly broke the first time I tried running it back in July. It took until December to get the replacements made and installed thanks to Dave Corbett of Wisconsin. The motor needed some TLC while I was trying to find the correct parts. I think it was worth the wait.
This is what an actual box and label for a Frontenac set (model 1322) box looks like, and The Oriental set (model 1337) box too as a bonus.
Penny, that sounds like a good place to start along with checking the dimensions of the box.
Not trying to be a smartie, but, one that sold for $5.95 would be a good starting point for finding out.
Same me, different spelling!
Update
The box that I posted above is not from a Frontenac set.
NationWideLines pointed out that this label was not used until 1935.
"The correct Frontenac label would be one of the blue badge type labels with a set number and the name Frontenac on the label."
Thanks for the identification of the box NWL.
At least I have a box to store the set in.
I wonder what set did come in this box.
I recently added another Frontenac set to the collection. Set #1322 was cataloged from 1930 to 1932.
The cars came with their original boxes.
The engine came in an original American Flyer box but it was not the right one.
They all came in an original box. The set number is not legible on the box so I am not sure that it is the original box for a Frontenac set. You have to love the price.
January 22, 2008 - January 22, 2021
Celebrating
13
years
Pre War American Flyer Pictures
Another year has sped by. This one will be remembered for more than collecting toy trains. And then again perhaps it will be remembered for the diversion that our hobby provided for us during a time of upheaval and social isolation. I expected to spend far more time in my train room and organizing my collection than I did. I know from reading online on a number of sites many folks did accomplish projects.
It has been on odd first year of retirement. I hope that this coming year provides more of what I had hoped retirement would be like. I have some plans for a layout and displays in the train room, and I hope that this year they become more than just plans and drawings.
The thread has experienced somewhat of a setback. As many of you know for some reason the links between my hosting site and photos in the first 65 pages or so have been broken. I have been in contact with the site and there has been no progress in getting the links restored. I notice that the same thing has happened to photos from a number of other contributors. Still there has been a steady flow of readers to the thread even if contributions of photos and questions has decreased.
I did start another thread on the CTT site that expanded to other makers of tinplate called "Tinplate Heritage Photos". I invite you to check out that thread and contribute photos of your tinplate from any manufacturer. I hope that you will continue to patronize and contribute to both threads.
Once again I offer my thanks to Kalmbach Media for hosting this site and making this thread possible.
In honor of Anniversary 13 here are some photos of American Flyer cast iron windup engine #13 from 1923-1924.
Greg
I recently acquired another variation of the #4152 Wide Gauge Observation with EAGLE decals.
Here are the other two variations:
This makes 3 EAGLE Observations. I had better start looking for some Pullmans to match them.
Northwoods Flyer Hi Jon I have both versions of the Merchant Set. One headed by the #3115 and one headed by the #3185. Neither one of them came to me as boxed sets so I can't vouch for their authenticity. One set has a box car with only one brake wheel and the other has a box car with two brake wheels. You can always count on American Flyer for variations. Nice find. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Hi Jon
I have both versions of the Merchant Set. One headed by the #3115 and one headed by the #3185.
Neither one of them came to me as boxed sets so I can't vouch for their authenticity. One set has a box car with only one brake wheel and the other has a box car with two brake wheels. You can always count on American Flyer for variations. Nice find.
Update on Missing Photos
As many of you have probably noticed most of the photos from the early days of the thread are no longer visible. I have been in contact with Shutterfly, who is my photo host, and so far they have not been able to correct the issue. If you have a specific photo that you would like to see and if it is one of mine I can try to post it again. I hope that we have not lost all of those early photos from so many of our contributors.
NationwidelinesOne unusual thing I noted about the above boxcar is that it only has a single brake wheel (and associated bracket). This must be some sort of factory error as all of the other early boxcars I have seen from the 1928-1930 era have two brake wheels, which makes it impossible to remove the roof, once the brake wheels and posts are installed.
Nationwide, I saw this old post and unfortunately the pictures are no longer showing up. I just picked up a Merchant set and it has one brake wheel and bracket but it does have a second bracket. Did your set have a second bracket without the brake wheel or was it missing?
RHicks309 Speaking of the Eagle set, is the 4644 supposed to have one headlight or two? You see examples of both for sale. The 1927 catalog picture of an Eagle set shows a 4644 with only one. Mine has one headlight with holes at the other end for another, but I suppose that could be because the same part was used on other versions, such as the 4684 pictured below. Just wondering! Randall
Speaking of the Eagle set, is the 4644 supposed to have one headlight or two? You see examples of both for sale. The 1927 catalog picture of an Eagle set shows a 4644 with only one. Mine has one headlight with holes at the other end for another, but I suppose that could be because the same part was used on other versions, such as the 4684 pictured below. Just wondering!
Randall
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