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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:15 AM

Here is the Prewar 3/16" O gauge Royal Blue and Passenger set..  Flash photos don't do this set justice, it's in really nice condition! This is almost identical to the postwar Royal Blue 350 which oddly enough ONLY came with freight cars, A.C. Gilbert didn't carry over the Baltimore and Ohio Blue passenger cars. Perhaps he didn't want to carry over such an old design?

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:16 AM

Here is a Prewar 3/16" O gauge Tuscan Passenger set with "deluxe" Pullman cars.. As you can see in the photos there is an observation car in the "tinplate" heavyweight design.. The two pullmans have light sockets punched in the floor but no pickup or sockets. The medium weight cars that do not have lights do not have holes punched in the floors? I have one out of three medium weights with lighting. I think all these cars look better with the lights on! These two Pullman's look right at home behind the standard weight cars. I cheat a little and pull this set with a Pennsylvania Streamline in Brunswick green.. although this engine is not true 3/16th scale it was used with the 3/16" cars and I especially like it because it was restored using an Atlas O gauge running gears with smoke! Gotta love smoke. One of the other things the Prewar Flyer is sorely lacking is the "Choo Choo" sound. I'm thinking of burying a newer smoke in tender unit in an old box car or tender and leaving it on a siding to produce the choo choo sound that would vary with throttle position. (I would rather do this than mess with one of the nicer cars).. I have a few Flyer "Chuggers" but they just don't seem to sound as good.

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7QcueelhI&feature=plcp

Here is a link to a little youtube of a few of the trains in action. I have a siding with switch to alternate between either the Hudson freight or Pennsylvania passenger line. I can also switch the inside line through the tunnel or to the outside.. Later I'll have a talking station hooked up and working.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qkChGOV_84&feature=relmfu

 

This second link shows the little layout before I added a larger second level..

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, July 7, 2012 12:13 AM

Gray Cat

The searchlight car is always a favorite, I have a girder car and am currently looking for a crane car to go with as well as the unloading car which has a Tank for it's load.

hey Cat, great pictures.  first time i've ever seen the 495-type cars in brown and especially like that lounge-observation.  it almost looks as though there may have been a drumhead attached to the railing at one time?  if not, the addition of one (without any hard changes, of course) might look sharp.

nice collection of 400 series freight cars, also.  this is one of the few 8-wheel Flyer groups i collect and had the camera out the other evening anyway so here are a few you missed...


#482 log car w/ black frame

first is the black frame version of the lumber car.  the load is in well handled condition, but you can still make out the "482" on the side shown, with the "American Flyer Lines" decal on the other side.  the Greenberg text states there should be two decals on each side, yet both this and the green frame version i have only have a single decal centered on each side.

#472 - U.S. Army Automatic Unloading Flatcar w/ original Tootsie tank load

probably the most difficult car to find with the correct and complete load, is the unloading flat.

when activated, the hidden solenoid turns and lowers the platform.

to complete the unloading flat, the Tootsie tank is also a tough find often found as the piece on the left, missing front and rear guns.  the original rubber tires are also usually in a rather fragile state.

#474 - Automatic Coal Dump Car

another solenoid activated car, the spring loaded side of this car opens up to dump its load.

#481 - Wrecker Crane on red frame

my favorite has to be the #481 wrecker, though.  also made in a black frame/ gray boom version, it has control wheels to both raise and lower the boom arm and hook.

what's that you say?  yours doesn't smoke?  :)

cheers...gary

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Posted by Gray Cat on Saturday, July 7, 2012 5:47 AM

Gary, thanks for adding your pics to a part of this thread that I hope will continue to grow. It seems you've posted pics of every car on my want list!! I was very happy to find that passenger set in Tuscan with the Pullman cars. They were a local find which made it even nicer. I am now on the lookout for a Tuscan baggage car to go with. It does look like a drum head belonged there, I'll see what I can dig up..

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, July 7, 2012 2:04 PM

i'm not really looking that hard anymore, but my collecting nemesis with the 400 series cars was always the silver 480 tank on the blue frame, though for merely collecting all numbers, i do have an almost perfect Shell tank version.

one collector alert on the 481 wrecker.  according to the Greenberg prewar Am Flyer wide gauge text, the (583) Electro Magnetic Crane which used the same crane body as the 481 car had a black stack, not the chrome (or maybe nickel plate?) version which should be found on the 481 wrecker crane.  the roofs that are merely a friction fit and can easily slide on and off are completely interchangeable, however.

anything beyond the very common 476 gondola, 478 boxcar and 484 caboose is the start of a good collection.  good luck...gary

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:25 PM

Great posts on the Pre War 3/16" O Gauge line folks.

There is a thread about 3/16 O that ran for a while on the forum but appears to have gone dormant.  This is a link to that thread.  It has some great information and photos.

 http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/168740.aspx?PageIndex=1

Keep the photos of 3/16" O gauge equipment coming.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:01 AM

the 400 series action cars came in sets with an activation track piece, the No. 683 Straight Unloading Track Set, but at least up to the 1941 catalog (i don't have a 1942), it was never pictured or for that matter, even offered as a separate sale item.  both the 472 and 474 cars i have came individually without the track piece, but eventually, and after recently getting a few supporting opinions, i believe i found the correct track.

 
 
No. 683 - Straight Unloading Track

the solenoid circuit is completed through a small spring positioned outboard to contract the trip track.  a metal angle piece, riveted to but isolated from the grounded ties, is powered through a single small fanstock clip.  when the car spring comes in contact with the track angle piece completing the circuit, a momentary switch (likely another part of the No. 683 set) can be used to power the solenoid.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Gray Cat on Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:26 PM

I just picket this little guy up today. This is a Prewar A-Koostikin' station. These prewar stations came in both the brown/yellow and red/white color combinations. They were later continued in the postwar S gauge lineup in red/white. It seems that the original name although catchy to the A.C. Gilbert company didn't work well out on the street. It was later changed to "Talking Station" which was self explanatory. This neat little accessory stops the train in an insulated block which then starts a record containing station calls and sound effects. After the record finishes the train starts back up and goes on it's way! Notice the front curbing is cut away on this station.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, July 15, 2012 4:34 PM

Wide Gauge Lone Scout Set

The Lone Scout set appeared in American Flyer Catalogs from 1929 through 1931. It came headed up by several different electric outline locomotives.  Mine has been on display for a number of years in my library/office. We are going through some minor redecorating and so I took it down and decided to photograph it for the thread.

I believe that my set is from 1929.  The Lone Scout set illustrated for that year is #1464. It is headed by the #4635.  In a seperate red outlined box on the same catalog page set #1494 is offered with the #4685, which has an automatic reverse. The #1464 was priced at $35.00.  The #1494 was priced at $40.00.

The 4685 was cataloged in 1929 and 1930.

 

 
The Lone Scout cars are very colorful. They make a great consist for a train around the Christmas tree. They were cataloged from 1929 through 1931. They came with either brass air tanks or grey truss rods.
This is the 4250 Club Car
 
 
The 4251 Pullman
 
 
The 4252 Observation
 
 
The cars are 14 inches long and the bodies are lithographed. I purchased them early in my collecting career long before eBay and the opportunity to see what you were buying.  In those days if you didn't go to shows and buy equipment or find it at local shops or purchase directly from collectors, the best sources were lists that you sent away for.  This set was from a list from a private seller.  I haven't looked at it closely in years because it was on a shelf up near the ceiling.  In photographing it now I realize that the roofs are most likely restored, and the trucks have definitely been repainted as the rivets in them are painted the same color as the trucks.  Someday I will probably replace it with a more original set but for now its still a beauty.
 
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Posted by tjl0824 on Sunday, July 15, 2012 9:47 PM

I've been looking to buy a 3315 for a little while now, but Ebay seems to be too competitive of a place to get one from. I plan to start looking locally, the only problem is I wouldn't really know if I was holding either a 3315 or any other locomotive labeled "American Flyer" on the cab. It's easy to know online, because the auction will be for a "3315 Steam Locomotive", but I don't know if they know what they're tallking about either. So my question is, how do I tell what number the engine is? I'm guessing it's stamped somewhere, but I don't know where. Obviously, there is a bell, but I'm aware many other engine's had bells as well.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:18 PM

Actually, these engines were not stamped with a number.  The 3315 engines are noted for the brass trim piece mounted under the running boards. 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, July 15, 2012 10:34 PM

Trevor,

The Type IX locomotive is a nice looking engine.  It was introduced in 1932 and ran in the catalog through 1935. It reappeared in the 1937 catalog for the last time.  It was cataloged under several different numbers, but the easiest way to recognize it is by the brass trim along the running board.  There is no number present on the engine.

 

 
 
The 1937 version, which is numbered 1688, had the brass trim painted black. 
The Type IX is usually paired with the Type IV tender or the 3194
sheet metal semi-vanderbilt tender.
 
 
Good luck in your quest.  They are fun to listen to going down the track with a soft bell ringing.
 
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Posted by tjl0824 on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 12:23 PM

overlandflyer

 

http://home.comcast.net/~marxtrains/trains/AF481-07-w.smoke.jpg

what's that you say?  yours doesn't smoke?  :)

Your crane car must similar to my rare version of the 561. It has steam chest and whistle smoke effects, and it still works even without track power, just like your 481!

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Posted by overlandflyer on Tuesday, July 17, 2012 10:00 PM

tjl0824

Your crane car must similar to my rare version of the 561. It has steam chest and whistle smoke effects, and it still works even without track power, just like your 481!

Trevor

concluding a year long super-detailing project which included a working coal burning boiler deftly hidden to avoid any loss of collector value, the need for track power is not an issue here.  my guess is that the crane operator was bored and just trying to keep warm during the photo shoot.

ah, the magic of toy trains!

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:09 AM

Narrow Gauge Lone Scout Set

Back one page I posted photos of the Wide Gauge Lone Scout set.  It appeared in American Flyer Catalogs from 1929 through 1931. In the 1929 and 1930 catalogs there is a line drawing of an American Indian standing looking out over a landscape with the caption. "Named in honor of Indian Braves"

  In 1934 Flyer recycled the name for a Narrow Gauge set that appeared for only one year; set #1366-RT.

 

 
 
 
 
 
It is led by the 3304 engine and tender combination. The engine is a Type XX steam engine.  Those of you with an eagle eye might notice that the engine in the photo is not the correct engine.  I used the dummy Type XX engine as a stand in because the correct powered Type XX is packed away somewhere.  Embarrassed It should be a 2-4-2.
 
It is paired with the 3193 Type VIII tender.
 
 
The narrow 6 1/2" cars were introduced in the 1933 catalog and in 1934 they were used in a number of sets, including the Narrow Gauge Lone Scout.
 
The cars in the set are:
 
 
The 1214 Baggage
 
 
The 1213 Pullman
 
 
And the 1217 Observation.
 
The Pullman and the Observation are lighted.
 
 
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Posted by Gray Cat on Monday, July 30, 2012 3:45 PM

Here are a few more additions to the 3/16" Gilbert O portion of this thread.

This is a "set" I just acquired, it is a 571 O Challenger in 3/16" (scale or tru model as Gilbert called it). It has the worm drive motor and Remote Directional Control unit. I was able to purchase it with three of the Diecast cars a 512 Texaco tanker, a 508 Virginia Hopper and a 516 UP Caboose. I'm going to be looking for the 510 Cattle car which should go with this consist. My 1940 Catalog shows a 534 as the RDC engine to go with the diecast cars to make a set, this engine is a 571 but with the RDC. Not sure yet why, but looking to find out. All pieces are in great shape except the tender bottom which is warped (zinc rot? I believe it's called).. These tender bottoms are reproduced so I'll have one ordered soon.

Last image is a picture of what the directional control unit looks like. Strangely the whistle control on a ZW activates the Directional Control relay!

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Posted by Gray Cat on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 7:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=v2s8J_HiM_E

 

This is a link to a youtube video clip showing the 571 with Remote Directional Control in action. I'm using the ZW whistle controller to activate the RDC. I'm not sure if it is working as well as it could/should. I'll keep my eyes out for a proper controller in the future as well as the missing cattle car to make this a completed set. Very neat little feature! Forgive the tender floor as I didn't get a chance to replace it yet. You will see at the end of the video it causes a slight derailment. Fortunately we didn't have to bring the big hook out to get that tank back on the rails!

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, August 11, 2012 12:33 PM
time to bring this string back to the first page?
 
#220 Station Clock & #90 Hyde Park Station (ca.1930)
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Posted by tjl0824 on Saturday, August 11, 2012 4:21 PM

Gray Cat

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=1&video_id=v2s8J_HiM_E

This is a link to a youtube video clip showing the 571 with Remote Directional Control in action.

Your link is bringing me to my Video Manager page. 

Good one Gary! Did you buy those recently? I saw those together with a few other things on eBay but someone else got them.

I just bought some Chicago era 3200 series freight cars, but they came rougher than the pictures made them look. I'll post some pictures as soon as I clean them up.

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Posted by overlandflyer on Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:07 PM

tjl0824

 

... Did you buy those recently? I saw those together with a few other things on eBay but someone else got them.

wasn't me... i've had these two pieces for a while.  i love small stations.  this one and the Hafner Glenn Ellen station make a good pair for a small layout.  if someone ever starts a Hafner string, you will really see some similarities between early Flyer and Hafner.

i picked up the station clock along with a few other acc's like a banjo signal and simple crossing gate from the same era, but the clock is the only piece i keep out to remind me when it's tea time.  ...ah, just about now.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:27 PM

I think this link will take you to Gray Cat's video of his 571

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2s8J_HiM_E

Thanks for posting it.  These old toys still have a lot of life and action in them.

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Posted by tjl0824 on Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:43 PM

overlandflyer

if someone ever starts a Hafner string, you will really see some similarities between early Flyer and Hafner.

I was hoping some time or another someone would do a Hafner post on the Marx thread. There is no strict rules as long as you don't start putting postwar Lionel stuff on there...

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:52 PM

overlandflyer

 

#220 Station Clock & #90 Hyde Park Station (ca.1930)

(I tried to quote overlandflyer's post above twice and for some reason it will not post the photo.  Scroll back up a ways and you can see his original post.)

Gary,

I really like the #220 station clock but until recently I did not have one in my collection. I purchased one a short time ago and I took some photos of it to post here on the thread.  After you posted the above photo I went to look at mine and discovered that you have a variation of it that Schuweiler does not mention in the Greenberg guide.  

Mine has a green standard and base, while yours is red.

 
 
Schuweiler lists the station clock as having a green base, but does not mention the red version.
 
 
The # 220 appeared in the 1930 through 1932 catalogs as an item that could be purchased individually.
 
 
 
It appears again in the catalogs in 1933 and 1934 as a part of the #240 Equipment Set
 
 
 
I think this explains why it can usually be found with some of the other pieces of equipment that originally came in the set.  You will notice that all of the catalog illustrations show it with the red standard and base.
 
 
The face on overlandflyer's example is in much better condition than mine, but now I have another variation to look for.
 
I like its size because it goes well with the Wide Gauge trains.
 
 
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Posted by overlandflyer on Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:40 PM

probably not related at all, but to designate a battery from a transformer powered accessory early on, Marx accessories colored green denoted the battery operated model whereas red was associated with the externally powered types.

its size does push the realism in O scale a bit, but luckily some scenic fixtures such as trees, clocks and flags can pass a bit more out of scale than mailboxes or phonebooths.

as a final note if you're looking for one, since this piece, or for that matter many of the early accessories, is not marked as Flyer, it is often mis-ID'ed.

cheers...gary

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, August 18, 2012 10:18 AM

Northwoods / Overland Flyer,

 

Your recent posts about the Flyer Clock and 240 Equipment set reminded me of something I acquired at York in the last year or two.

The toughest piece to find in the 240 equipment set is the original box, as shown below.  I suspect part of the reason is that it is tough to pack the items back in the box and I am missing one of the signals in my set.

 

 
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Posted by overlandflyer on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:00 AM

post deleted by user

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Posted by Gray Cat on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 3:40 PM

Adding again to the 3/16" prewar Flyer section. Here are a few pics of action cars I just acquired. \

The first is a version of the 472 Armored Car unloading car. It has a red frame and dual pickup springs. Don't know how rare this is, but I'm sure it's a less common variation. The photo from above shows both springs. Sadly this is the non lethal version, it has no guns! As Overland Flyer pointed out finding one of these with guns intact can be a challenge. It does have NOS rubber on it though so it rolls off the car well.

This next picture is of the 474 Coal Dump car. This is almost identical to the postwar 716 side dump car.

This car was advertised for sale as a crane car on the wrong tank car base. I took a chance and bought it hoping it was the 514 Wrecker car and as far as I can tell it is! A good find for $10. This has the open frame cast base with four holes (one at each corner for use on other cast cars). The trucks are riveted on with what look like factory steel rivets (lots of original patina). Not sure of the No. 11 decal, I don't know if this came like this from the factory or if it was in the kit (since this is riveted I'm guessing it's a factory car) or a later customer add on?

Here is another of the Prewar 3/16" Die Cast cars. This 504 Gondola is a two part casting. It uses the same die cast open frame as the Wrecker car.. on this gondola the four corners are attached with cast in posts on the gondola body that are peened over through the frame to hold it together. This car came in both the kit form or factory assembled. The catalog shows either the Hudson or the Northern pulling only a few of these cast cars and it's no wonder. They are quite heavy!

Lastly here is a shot of a green 492 mail pickup car.

During the prewar period there was not nearly the selection Gilbert offered post war, but having any of these action cars can add a ton of play value to a prewar collection or layout. It is a real treat to find any of them.

Lover of all things Gilbert, truly a man ahead of his time.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:26 AM

overland flyer/gary,

I certainly hope that they can figure out what has happened to your posts.  Your information and photos have been an invaluable addition to the information here on the thread.  I know I personally learned a lot from your posts.  I'm hoping that they can get around to working out all the bugs. Something similar happened to Mersenne6.  We didn't lose the photos in his posts, but he did lose the ability to post photos.  I did repost your entry to the "fix the bugs" thread.  I noticed the same thing has not happened to your posts in the Marx thread here on the forum.  (By the way folks, that thread is excellent.  I didn't know much about Marx trains, but my knowledge has been increased many fold but reading it)  Thanks for your contributions, I look forward to more.

 

Gray Cat,

Let me offer a tip of the old fedora -

 
Those are some very nice aquistions for your 3/16 collection.  You are definitely a man with a mission when it comes to collecting.  Its nice to see the origins of Gilbert's S gauge line.
 
Thanks for posting
 
Northwoods Flyer
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:09 PM

Nationwidelines,

What a great find. I have never seen a box for the #240 Equipment set. From your description of the difficulty getting all of the items back in the box I can understand why many of them have not survived.

Reading your post and noticing two of the Banjo Signals on eBay recently made me take a look at the Banjo signals that I have in my collection.

#202 Banjo Signal

The Banjo Signal came in two forms.  The #202 is the one that is shown in Nationwidelines'  photo of the set.  It was cataloged for seperate sale in 1930 through 1932, and apparently included in the #240 Equipment Set and various train sets for quite a few years.  The other version is the #222.  It has a rod that moves the swinging arm.  I don't have a #222 and in fact I can't remember having seen one.  I probably have just never taken the time to notice.

 

I gathered up my #202s and discovered there are several variations.

 
red base, green post,  red bracket arm
 
 
red base, red post, red bracket arm
 
 
green base, green post, green bracket arm
 
Now here is where it got interesting.  I spotted a pair of #202s on eBay a while back and one of them had a hanging sign that hung to the left instead of the right.
 
 
it is also green base, green post and green bracket
 
 
You may ask, "Well isn't it just turned around?  It is assembled differently because the hanging sign is only lithographed on one side.
 
 
So a simple assembly difference can create a variation
 
 
So here are the 4 variations that I have in my collection.
 
Then I let my mind do a little math.
 
2 base color options X 2 post color options X 2 bracket color options X 2 directions the hanging sign can face = a total of 16 possible variations!  I'm not saying that many exist, but they could.
 
Ok now go back and look very carefully at the photo of all 4 of my variations.  I didn't notice this until I took the photo of all 4 of them together. 
 
 
There are two styles of base!  So we do another X2 and we get 32 possible variations!
 
One more..... the #222 differs from the #202 only in having a rod to operate the swinging sign.  So if you combine the possible variations of the #202 and the #222 you could have 64 different variations.
 
You could be looking for all of them for a long time...if they all exist.
 
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