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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by O-GaugeOscar on Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:46 PM

 Northwoods Flyer,

Very interesting...thanks for the additional insights on the Pennsy passenger set.  I didn't realize Gilbert took over American Flyer in 1938.  Was AF bankrupt?  Did Gilbert purchase only the assets - existing merchandise inventory, trademarks, patents, etc?

As for posting photos, I'll first have to open an account at a photo hosting website (any recommendations?).  Unfortunately, I start a new work project this weekend, so I may be delayed....

 

Thanks again.

 

 

Mark
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:07 AM

O-GaugeOscar,

From what I have read, American Flyer was not doing well in the late 1930's as far as sales are concerned. In 1938 W.O. Coleman, who owned American Flyer sold (or as the story goes - "gave") the company to A.C. Gilbert. Coleman wanted to be rid of the ailing company.  At the time Gilbert made Mysto Magic Sets and of course one of the other toys that every boy wanted - Erector Sets. 

The story goes that Coleman and Gilbert were shooting at Gilbert's private game reserve in New Haven when Gilbert mentioned he was thinking about manufacturing toy trains. Instead, Coleman said he would give his struggling American Flyer Company to Gilbert in return for a share of the profits.  Gilbert quickly agreed and the deal was completed within a short time.

Gilbert soon moved the company from Chicago (hence why earlier examples of American Flyer trains made during the Coleman era are referred to as "Chicago" Flyer) to New Haven Connecticut and he redesigned the product line.  Gilbert pioneered 3/16" O gauge in 1939.  Apparently Gilbert aquired everything American Flyer in the deal since the older designs of Flyer continued in the catalogs through 1940. By 1941 the old designs were gone from the catalogs.  I have read somewhere too that all of the employees from the Chicago factory were offered positions in the new location in New Haven and that a number of them made the move.

This is a link to a great site to do research on the Gilbert era trains.  It has most of the catalogs posted for the years 1938 to the end.  I have linked to it serveral times on the thread.

http://myflyertrains.org/

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:33 PM

Streamlined Sets

The Burlington Zephyr

I have posted photos of the Burlington Zephyr previously on the thread, but I thought I would follow through with the theme of streamliners for a while or at least until I run out of examples.

According to the Greenburg Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge, Flyer introduced its strealined sets with the cast aluminum Burlington Zephyr.  It was cataloged from 1934 to 1938.     

 1935 Catalog Cover

 1934 Catalog
 
During those years it appeared in the catalog in a number of forms.  I believe that this is the 1934 version, which is a three car set.
 
 
American Flyer used two different versions of the engine or as it was called,  The Power Car.  9910 was used in 1934 and 1935.
The Power Car was redesigned in 1935 - lengthening and widening the casting.  It was renumbered 9914 and ran in the catalog until 1938.
 
9910
 
 
 
 
 
The other cars cataloged in various sets were:
 
9911 Baggage (Combination Car) 1934-1938
 
Version B
 
9912 Observation Car  1934-1938
 
 
9913 Coach   1935-1938
 
I don't have an example of this car in my collection.  Its one of those items on my "Wanted List".
 
Growing up in Chicago I remember going to the the Museum of Science and Industry as a child on Field Trips or with my parents and looking at the full size train sitting there on display, wishing that I had been able to have an opportunity to ride in it.
 
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:56 PM

3020 Large Boxcab

In 1922 American Flyer added large boxcab electric-outline locomotives to its line of trains. The 3020 was first cataloged in 1922 and ran through 1925.  It was patterned after the New York Central's Twentieth Century.  It is an impressive 12 1/2 " long.

This is the dark green version with red windows (version C)

 
The number 3020 and ownership are rubber stamped at each end.
 
 
 
The distinctive pony trucks add to its impressive and powerful appearance.  You can tell it is related to its cousin used to run the President's Special in Wide Gauge.
 
 
It makes me wish that American Flyer had actually manufactured Narrow Gauge versions in the color schemes of the Wide Gauge versions.
 
This is the black version (version B)
 
 
 
 
The 3020 had a bell, headlight and pantograph cast into a piece on the roof.  This piece appeared on several other of the boxcabs as well.
 
 
These engines are very impressive pulling a consist of passenger cars or freight cars.
 
 
If I didn't love steam engines so much I might consider "electrifying" the entire Blueboard Central.
 
 
The 3020 also comes in brown, maroon, and light green.  I'd love to see it in the Rookie Tan, Rolls Royce Blue and Cadet Blue of its Wide Gauge cousins.
 
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Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:21 AM

Northwoods......I feel like a freakin' voyeur.  Thanks for your continued dedication to this superb thread.

Jack

IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:16 PM

RockIsland52

Northwoods......I feel like a freakin' voyeur.  Thanks for your continued dedication to this superb thread.

Jack

Jack,

Thanks for the compliment.  Your comment has me wondering exactly what it is I have posted on the thread. Shock

I haven't been found anything risque yet that I posted Blindfold.

I'm just glad you have found a certain level of excitement at looking at Prewar beauties.  Blush

Large Box Cabs

Since I posted pictures of the queen of the fleet of electrics in the last entry I thought I would post some photos of additional engines that classify as large box cabs.

3015

The American Flyer 3015 Box Cab loco was available in 1927, and shares a body with locos 3019 and 3020. The body color is medium green, with a length of 10 1/2 inches and a track activated reverse.

 
3019
 
This New York Central type large box cab was available in 1923-1924.  It looks like a 3020 without the pony trucks.  It is also 10 1/2 inches long.  It comes in several colors.  I don't have an example of this engine in my collection at this time.
 
3020

This is the top of the line electric outline model.  It was introduced by American Flyer in 1922 and appeared in the catalog through 1925.It was available in a variety of body colors including black, dark green, brown, maroon and a lighter green. It came with a track activated reverse; at least one version did not have a reverse.

 
 
3115

The American Flyer 3115 Box Cab loco was available from 1928 to 1930 and 1932 to 1934. This model included external headlights and a reverse unit, either track activated or remote.

 
 
3185
 
This large box cab was available from 1928 thru 1930. It is similar to the 3115 as it comes in the same colors.  It has a new remote control reverse unit.  There is a slot in the roof to accomodate the lever that controls the reverse unit and a hole punched in one end for  the reversing rod.  I do not have an example of this electric outline engine in my collection at this time either.
 
All of these engines came in beautiful passenger sets.
 
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Northwoods Flyer
 

 

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Posted by DocBen on Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:25 PM

 By the way...I have emailed Eric Trickel several times in the last couple of months, with no response.  Anyone have contact with him recently?  Really want to get restoring my 1938 Flyer...thanks!

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Posted by DocBen on Friday, March 5, 2010 6:58 PM

 Also...I cleaned and oiled my 1938 Flyer today and put it on a Fastrack O-guage track with a Lionel 80 watt transformer.  It runs backwards.  I do not see a switch anywhere on the engine that would reverse the loco.  Any ideas on what is going on?  It's beautiful to see it run for the first time...but would like to see it run FORWARDS!  Haa... thanks guys.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, March 5, 2010 9:23 PM

DocBen,

Congratulations on getting the 4615-6 from your set to run.   SmileYeah!!    And if all you had to do was oil it and set it on the track its a testimony to the endurance and reliability of these old "toys"  Unfortunately I don't have an example of this engine in my collection to look at.  My assumption is that because it is an engine produced under Gilbert ownership - that it has the typical e unit from that era.  I'm not particularly knowledge about about the electronics of those engines (maybe someday when I retire).  One of the other folks who is familiar with the inner workings of the engines can help.  I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your use of the modern Lionel transformer.

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Posted by DocBen on Sunday, March 7, 2010 9:08 PM

 So I'm reading through the 1938 catalog, and I see that in page 2, it says "All locomotives are equipped with remote-control reverse motors".  Does anyone else have a locomotive from this era that they run on Fastrack with a Lionel transformer?  I guess my question is...is there is separate reverse motor in these trains?  If so, how is it remote-controlled?  I looked at the transformer that came with the set, and it is the #7 75W unit.  There is no reverser on the transformer.  I see no switch on the engine.  Anyone have any insight on what a remote controller would look like for this, or how it would work.  It runs very nicely in reverse.  Nothing so far gets it to kick over to forward drive.  It's gotta be something simple...My father-in-law wouldn't have possessed a train that didn't run forwards.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, March 7, 2010 9:51 PM

DocBen,

I took a look at one of my engines from about the same time as your engine.  Does the inside of the cab of your locomotive look anything like this?

 
If it does, that large silver piece in the middle should move back and forth each time that you apply power to the engine.  With each movement it changes the direction of the engine.  There is no neutral with this motor.  I have noticed that my engines that have this type of mechanism do stick on occasion, keeping the engine going in only one direction.  There isn't a need for a seperate control for reverse.
 
At the top on the left there is a lever that moves up against that silver piece and holds it in place, locking the engine in one direction.
 
These two photos show that lever in the two different position.
 
 
Beyond this point I can't be much help.  If the motor in your loco doesn't look like this I'm lost  Blush.
 
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Posted by DocBen on Sunday, March 7, 2010 9:52 PM

 So after reading a ton more about this...I think that maybe there is a switch somewhere that "locks" the motor to whichever direction that it was going when it locked.  However, I cannot find anything like that.  If I can flip the switch, I believe that stopping the current will switch the motor from forward to neutral to reverse back to neutral...just maybe.  Some of the literature out there seems to still believe that American Flyer was first made in 1946...Grrrrrrrr!!!  Anyone know anything about a 1938 or near to that Flyer?  Haa...I know I'm being a pain in the butt...but I want to see it run!!

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Posted by DocBen on Sunday, March 7, 2010 10:38 PM

Northwoods Flyer

DocBen,

I took a look at one of my engines from about the same time as your engine.  Does the inside of the cab of your locomotive look anything like this?

 
If it does, that large silver piece in the middle should move back and forth each time that you apply power to the engine.  With each movement it changes the direction of the engine.  There is no neutral with this motor.  I have noticed that my engines that have this type of mechanism do stick on occasion, keeping the engine going in only one direction.  There isn't a need for a seperate control for reverse.
 
At the top on the left there is a lever that moves up against that silver piece and holds it in place, locking the engine in one direction.
 
These two photos show that lever in the two different position.
 
 
Beyond this point I can't be much help.  If the motor in your loco doesn't look like this I'm lost  Blush.
 
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Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

No, nothing like this...this looks earlier than mine.  Nonetheless, brilliant!  You solved it for me. 

Up inside of the front of the engine, there is a small metal bar that connects to a spring.  I slid a pen cap up there, and it easily moves and springs back.  What happens to be next to it?  An electromagnet, it looks like.  So I move it back and forth a few times, and I finally get it to engage in forward gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I put the rest of the cars on the track and my wife got to see her dad's train set run for the first time in her life.  It's the only connection she has with her grandfather, whom she has no memory of.  He bought this train for her father when he was born, in 1937.  She remembers her father cleaning it and putting it back away, but never remembers him running it.  Thanks guys!!!  You are the best. 

This journey was quite a lot of fun...on to the next one!

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Posted by Sturgeon-Phish on Monday, March 8, 2010 10:16 AM

What a neat story

Thanks for sharing!

Jim

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Posted by DocBen on Monday, March 8, 2010 12:44 PM

 I'm going to try to post pictures here now...so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

 

Here is my 1938 American Flyer...

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Posted by DocBen on Monday, March 8, 2010 12:47 PM

The tender:


The "sand car," I believe:

 The Box Car:

The Milk Car:

The Caboose:


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Posted by DocBen on Monday, March 8, 2010 12:49 PM

 Here are my three full "O" sets.  The Polar Express set...the 1938 American Flyer #10 set, and the 1976 Lionel Rock Island set (from my childhood).


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Posted by DocBen on Monday, March 8, 2010 1:12 PM

The actual catalog picture...

My version of the 1938 catalog...the No. 10 Northern Pacific Freight!

 

How'd I do?

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Posted by DocBen on Monday, March 8, 2010 9:16 PM

 A video to prove it's running, for those of you interested...It's pretty basic, but I love how it looks chugging along!


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Posted by lionelnut on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 8:48 AM

That is a very nice collection.  While I am more of a Lionel Nut I do have the Mystic talking train station that I just love and the funniest thing is I have about 8 of the green street lamps you have and I had never seen them before, I know they say latrob casting company on the bottom so now I will guess they are american flyer.....Have a great day

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 7:30 PM

DocBen,

What a great set you have.  Your father-in-law must have taken very good care of it.  The condition of the cars is like new.  Do you have the lead and trailing trucks for the locomotive, or are those items that you are trying to find?  I appreciate hearing the story of the significance of this train set to your wife and to your family.

Thanks too for posting the video of the set in action.  Its pretty impressive.  And you have a great start on a railroad empire.

Lionelnut,

Sign - Welcome to the forum.  The Mystic station is one of my  personal favorites of all the accessories that American Flyer made.  I'm looking for one of the Prewar versions that was done in the brown colors.  It was known as the Akoostikin Station.

I took a look at all of my street lamps (579 and 580) and all of mine have "American Flyer made by Gilbert" on the bottom of the casting.  Could you post a photo of one of your lamps?  I'd like to see if they are identical to the ones that I have.  I've used quite a few of both the double (580) and the single (579) lamp posts in both silver and green on the BlueBoard Central Division of American Flyer Lines.

 

Thanks for posting folks and keep the photos coming.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby.

Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by DocBen on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 8:17 PM

Northwoods Flyer

DocBen,

What a great set you have.  Your father-in-law must have taken very good care of it.  The condition of the cars is like new.  Do you have the lead and trailing trucks for the locomotive, or are those items that you are trying to find?  I appreciate hearing the story of the significance of this train set to your wife and to your family.

Thanks too for posting the video of the set in action.  Its pretty impressive.  And you have a great start on a railroad empire.

 

He must have taken great care of it.  Everything we inherited from him was well-maintained and in great shape(usually with hand-written maintenance records.)  His younger brother (who is now 70) will hopefully be visiting us from NC this year.  He remembers how they only ever got the train out for special holidays.  I can't wait for him to see it run.  He has no idea I have it put together.  I never met my wife's father, but my wife is now 37, and never saw the train run until last night.  She was very pleased, and I'm sure her uncle will be a little nostalgic about it too.  My 7 year-old daughter absolutely loves to play with our trains.  I hope to keep her involved as long as possible.  She's always been a daddy's girl so far...I'll stretch that out forever if I can.

That's why the train means so much to me.  Think about all of this emotion and nostalgia from a toy that cost around $15.00 just 72 short years ago.  It's in great shape, and yes, I have the trucks for the engine.  They are kind of chewed up, so I removed them.  I'm still awaiting any contact with Eric Trickel so that I can order replacements for running...no luck so far. 

 

Thanks for "making" me get so involved in this process!!

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Posted by DocBen on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 9:33 PM

 As an aside...anyone know where to get replacement bulbs for the old trains?  My Flyer has a good sized bulb up front that works intermittantly (not sure if the filament is broken and lights when it connects, or if it is just loose in the socket.  Also, the #3211 "Lighted Caboose" has a bulb inside, that it apparently out.  Is there a standard place you have found old-style bulbs for these trains?  Or are they still sold in modern sizes?  Thanks again and again!

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Posted by O-GaugeOscar on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 9:51 PM

 You might try using the eraser end of a #2 pencil to tighten the bulb in the locomotive's socket. 

If you need replacement bulbs, try RadioShack or eBay.  When searching on eBay, look under both American Flyer and Lionel.  I've seen bulbs offered for sale, but haven't compared prices with RadioShack.

Good luck!

 

Mark
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 11:32 PM

Here are two links that I use to identify the bulbs that I need to replace.  If you do a Google search for sources of toy train lights you might find others.

http://www.three-rail.com/BULBS.HTM#BA432

http://autolumination.com/trainbulbs.htm

I think that Hobby Surplus also carries replacement bulbs.

Good luck in your search.

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Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by DocBen on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:40 AM

 Hmm...thanks for that info.  Will take some time to check all that info out.  I really should have had faith...I tightened the red bulb in the caboose, and OF COURSE it worked.  Shines nice and bright.  Not sure how long it will last, but it looks pretty cool.  Thanks again!

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Posted by lionelnut on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:35 AM

Northwoods Flyer,

 I am new on here and don't really know how this all works but I was replying to a post made by sturgeon-phish about the lights.  I also have not figured out how to post a pic of the lights but if you email me I can send it to you.  I'll also put one on my avatar...

Lionelnut

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Posted by Sturgeon-Phish on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:56 AM

Great looking set!!!!!

Lionelnut, WELCOME!!!  Refresh my memory about the lights.

Jim

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Posted by lionelnut on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:23 AM

It doesn't take me long to confuse a board and myself, guess I'll figure it out - so sorry.  I am new here and you posted some pictures back on 1-22-08 that had green street lights.  I have never seen them before but I have 8 of them along with the mystic talking train station.  My green lights say latrob casting company on the bottom and I was just guessing they must be american flyer??  Northwoods flyer responded back to me but his lights are different.

Have a nice day all.

lionelnut Florence, Ky
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:22 PM

Sturgeon-Phish

 

 

 

Jim Sturgeon-Phish,

I think that these are the photos that lionelnut is referring to.  They are from the very first days that this thread was in existance.  Are these the street lights that Flyer marketed as their Boulevard lights? 

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Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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