Christmas Wish List
1937
There have been a lot of big event in the news this year. The biggest one that has everyones attention is the disappearance of Amelia Earhart and her navigator Fred Noonan during her attempt to become the first woman to fly around the world. Its been the topic of conversation for months. There are many other events too: President Franklin D Roosevelt is sworn in for a second term. A new comic book shows up at news stands called Detective Comics. There is a new character in Looney Tune cartoon shorts. He's a crazy black bird called Daffy Duck. The German airship Hindenberg bursts into flames when mooring to a mast in Lakehurst New Jersey. The coronation of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth takes place in London. Wallis Simpson married the former King Edward VIII. The Golden Gate bridge opens to pedestrian traffic one day and to automobile traffic the next. George Gershwin dies in Los Angeles. Orsen Wells stars in a new radio program called The Shadow. Walt Disney releases the first feature length animated cartoon with music called Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.
The best thing about the year is the arrival of the American Flyer Trains catalog down at the hardware store. The cover looks great, but it also looks familiar. Maybe the people at American Flyer decided to reuse the cover from another year.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
HI GYZ,
WOW lots o AF stuff. 19 and cold here we are to get 4-8 inches of SNO HI O tomorrow. Great for me! I gotta clear all the neighbor ladies driveways with the SNOW BLOWER. I might have to do it like JIM DUDA does?
Stay frosty,
laz57
Hi laz,
It sounds like winter has descended on you. Its a cool 21 degrees here today. We only have predictions of snow showers and flurries for the next few days. The 10 inches we got a week ago is still here. Its looking a lot like the Christmas cards. I'd say that your weather sounds perfect for running trains inside, and it would be a great way to reward yourself for all that neighborliness.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby and staying frosty,
Northwoods Flyer
Greg- Nice, real nice. Makes me have a notion to venture into AF "O".
Jim
Thanks Jim,
If I remember correctly you got a Polar Express last year for Christmas. You already have the track, now all you need is to visit ebay and pick up an engine and some cars. I think I have also tried to lure you into the land of O gauge Flyer in the past too. I think its about time you rewarded yourself with a sample of Chicago Flyer.
1938
This has been a tumultuous year. Listening to the old Philco radio in the parlor during the evening brings news of scary and painful happenings in the world; and a few pleasant things. The Niagara Bridge in New York collapses because of an ice jam. Adolph Hitler has been creating all kinds of havoc in Europe. He is pressuring the government of Austria for power in that countrhy, he has his sights set on places as far away as Africa and for most of the year he has been threatening Czechoslovakia. Italy beats Hungary in the World Cup competition. Heavyweight boxing champion Joe Louis knocks out Max Schmeling in the first round of their rematch at Yankee Stadium. A new character named Superman appears in a new comic book called Detective Comics. Howard Hughes sets a new record by completing a 91 hour airplane flight around the world. Wrong Way Corrigan takes off from New York headed for Califonia, he ends up in Ireland instead. The chemical company DuPont announces the development of a synthetic yarn called "nylon". Orson Wells broadcasts a story on the Mercury Theater on the Air called "The War of the Worlds" about an invasion from Mars. It causes a panic all across the country. In Germany Kristallnacht "the night of broken glass" takes place as Nazi activists loot and burn Jewish business.
Its a disappointing and frightening time. Even kids discover that things they thought would always be there have changed. When the American Flyer Trains catalog comes out it is very different.
1939
The Philco radio in the living room has been filled with nothing but disturbing news this year. The world is at war, countries are invading countries and it sounds as if the world is changing forever. One county after another seems to be disappearing as the Nazi's are on the move. Mom and Dad talk in hushed tones after the kids are in bed. So far the U.S. isn't involved. There are other things going on in the world too:
Students at Havard University have established a new tradition - swallowing goldfish. The 1939 World's Fair opens in New York. A new comic book character appears at the news stands - Batman is born. Major League Baseball's Lou Gehrig ends an unbroken streak of 2,131 games played after announcing that he has contracted ALS. There are two really good movies at theaters across the country; The Wizard of OZ and Gone with the Wind. Kids like the first one and adults like the second one.
The American Flyer Trains catalog is now called Gilbert American Flyer Electric Trains.
1940
The only thing on the radio these days is news about the war in Europe. It almost makes a kid feel like they don't want to listen to the radio anymore. But mom and dad, and even the neighbors who stop by, are glued to it. Its hard to find other events going on in the world - but there are some things that will divert your attention.
RKO releases Walt Disney's second feature length animated movie, Pinnochio. Its hard not to like a boy who's nose grows when he fibs. Mom and Dad keep warning the same thing will happen to you. There are two new cartoon characters showing up at the movies too - Tom and Jerry make their debut. And a third guy with a weird way of speaking shows up in the cartoons - Elmer Fudd. If you lived in San Bernardino California you could go to a new restaurant that just opened called McDonald's. Most parents don't think it will last. There is lots of news about the rescue of British forces at Dunkirk France by anybody who had a boat to bring them back across the British Channel- over 850 boats were involved for 9 days. The Republican party selects Wendell Wilkie as its candidate for President to run against incumbent president Franklin D. Roosevelt. President Roosevelt wins a third term in office, something no other president has ever done. President Roosevelt signs the Selective Training and Service Act which establishes the first peace time draft in U.S. History. Walt Disney releases a second film this year called Fantasia. The Chicago Bears beat the Washington Redskins by a score of 73 to 0 in the 1940 NFL Championship Game.
While the map of Europe is changing every day, things in the U.S. remain pretty much the same. Europe and the fighting going on there are a very long distance from your living room. So its with a sense of relief and great expectation that you run home with your copy of the catalog for Gilbert's American Flyer Trains. That name is still a little strange.
1941
To paraphrase President Roosevelt, "This is a year that will live in Infamy". The United States is at war. After the US fleet is all but destroyed in a surprise attack in December, the US declares war on Japan and enters World War II. Events in the news have shown the clouds of war spreading over more and more of Europe and spreading now even to our own back yard. Its hard to find news that isn't about the war: President Roosevelt is sworn in for a third term. A new cartoon character named Captain America gets his own comic book. The United Service Organization (USO) is created to entertain American troops, and Bob Hope signs on as one of its primary entertainers. The Grand Coulee Dam in Washington begins to generate electricity. There is a new cereal at the general store called CheeriOats (the name is later changed to Cheerios). Orsen Welles' new film Citizen Kane premiers in New York. Joe DiMaggio has a 56 game hitting streak. The Great Gildersleeve debuts on the radio. Walt Disney has another great feature length cartoon called Dumbo in theaters. The carving of the four heads of important presidents in completed at Mt Rushmore.
With all of the frightening news on the radio and in the newspaper its a real comfort to look at the American Flyer Trains by Gilbert catalog. You have spent several nights looking through its pages under the covers by flashlight. Mr. Gilbert opened a whole building in New York called The Hall of Science.
Your Christmas Lists crack me up...very cool. I have been lurking for a while, but still haven't found the information I am interested in. I figured I better ask the geniuses here. I have what I believe is a fairly rare American Flyer set, in I would say very good condition. I say I believe it is very rare because in several days of searching online, I cannot find it...cannot find it in online price guides...etc. I WAS however, able to find what I believe it is in a picture from the 1938 AF catalog. I searched this catalog based on the known history of ownership of this set. I believe I have the No. 10 Northern Pacific Freight Train set with #7 75W Transformer. The only thing visibly wrong with it is that the pilot trucks are a little chewed up, and I see from various sources that the prewar AFs had this problem commonly. I took them off to prevent them getting worse, but still of course have the original parts. Also, the cord on the transformer is very brittle plastic, and is a mess. I have two questions...
In order to keep the highest value possible...do I leave everything original, albeit slightly worn? That is...do I try to find replacement trucks for a weirdly rare 2-6-4 set, and replace the power cord on the transformer, or do I leave them original and know that the set cannot run in this condition? Thanks in advance...and I can add photos if anyone wishes.
Oh yeah...in addition to those questions...can anyone give a ballpark value for this set? It is complete, and also comes with a lot of O-gauge track...switches, lights, etc. and a few original (flattened) boxes. Thanks again!!
Hello DocBen,
to the forum. Lurkers are always welcome, and so are participants. If you have the capability to post pictures of your set please do so. Photos are always welcome.
The engine in the No. 10 Northern Pacific freight set listed in the 1938 catalog has a catalog number of 4615-6. (Here is a link to a site showing the page from the 1938 catalog http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page17.htm)
The casting itself is known as the Type XVI. The casting was used for 4 different engines (423, 425, 4615-4, and 4615-6. The 425 and the 4615-6 both have 6 drive wheels.) during the years 1938-1940. The tender is the 3301 diecast semi-Vanderbilt tender. The freight cars should have the sheet metal coupler, sometimes known as the curley Q coupler, which was only used in 1938.
Because the engine casting was only marketed for a 3 year period it is likely that there are fewer numbers of them around than some of the other engines. The 4615-6 was only marketed for one year, 1938, so the number of those engines are relatively small.
I checked EricTrickel's Cast Parts Catalog and he has both the wheels and the complete front truck available for this engine.
Your questions about whether to replace parts or leave them as original will get very different answers from different people. In my opinion it is a very subjective decision that can take a lot factors into account. When I look at adding a piece to my collection I prefer all original parts, but if the original wheels have deteriorated or are missing and have been replaced by appropriate replacements I find that completely acceptable. If you intend to sell the set you may want to hold on to all original parts that are replaced and include them when you pass it on to a new owner. Some folks may not feel the same way.
As far as the transformer is concerned, go ahead and replace the plug and cord. Transformers are not very expensive and one in working order is more valuable than one that can't be used or needs to be fixed.
As to the value of the set, it depends on condition, and desireability to potential buyers, and how much money someone might be willing to spend to own it. Generally a complete original set will bring a bit more than the sum of its parts (but not always), and all the extras like original boxes and the original set box and accessories will increase its value. I hesitate to guess at a value. In David Doyle's Book Standard Catalog of American Flyer Trains he lists values for the 4615 as VG (C6) $350, EX (C7) $700 LN (C8) $1,100. In my opinion those values are very very high.
Some pictures of your set might help with the determintation of its value.
Thanks for posting your questions.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
All I can say is WOW. Lots of information there...thank you! Yes exactly accurate with the details you provided. I had done an internet search on Eric Trickel a few days ago for this catalog everyone talks about...and came up empty. I emailed him, but haven't heard back yet. Is there a link for this, or mail, or email? Very interested in buying some new hardware...I gotta see this train run once at least!
Looks like I will be ordering the Standard Catalog in the near future. Is there another source you think I should purchase where you found valuable information?
Thanks again!! I'll post pictures shortly... if I can figure out how to upload them on the site.
Greg,
All too cool! I am contemplating a new larger layout, and I am seriously considering a loop of three rail tubular track to employ some O AF. You tempt me!
DocBen,
Sorry for the tardiness of my reply, but I've been away from home for a few days during the New Year holiday. The contact information that I have for Eric Trickel is probably the same information that you have already found:
Eric Trickel
541 North Charlotte Street
Pottstown, PA 19464
Phone:484-624-4354 (Evenings and Weekends)
Email: TRICKELCASTPARTS@YAHOO>COM
He seems to have the largest assortment of replacement parts for prewar American Flyer.
Good Luck in your restoration. Keep us posted on your progress, and lets see some pictures when you can.
Sturgeon-Phish:
Jim,
I'm glad that your resistance is weakening. I think you will really enjoy having some O gauge Flyer in your collection. If my information is correct - gathered from lurking - you have some Flyer track coming from lionelsoni. That is a great start. I have gone to using all Fastrack.
Here are a couple of older photos or the Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines that show my use of Fastrack.
Every piece of my prewar Flyer travels on it just fine. The only issue is with switches. Old trains and new switches do not seem to be compatible. I have gone to loops of track with no switches. When you get your first Prewar Flyer engine you will find that it negotiates the track that came with your Polar Express set just fine. Some of the bigger engines will need a larger diameter than 36 inches though. Now lets see, what would be a good starter set for your entry into Prewar Flyer O gauge?
Streamlined Sets
The Union Pacific
Way back before starting the Christmas Wish Lists I had posted some pictures of the Hiawatha and the streamlined cars to match. I think its time to pick up on that theme for a while.
In 1936 American Flyer introduced its version of the Union Pacific's streamlined City of Denver. It appeared in the catalog until 1939, and in some uncataloged sets after that. In 1936 it was cataloged with a coach with a whistle in it. By 1937 the whistle was gone. Here are some photos of what I believe is the 1937 version.
to the forum Ironmaster, and to this thread.
Great catch on the variation of the 2218. I have never noticed that variation. I have several 2218s in both green and red but none that is "left handed". I agree with you that there must have been two different stampings to have the variation. I wonder if there are green examples as well. Now I have a new variation to be on the lookout for.
Here is a photo of the two right handed examples that I posted earlier on the thread:
ironmaster,
Thanks for the additional photo of your 2218 block signal. This is one of the things that I like about collecting Pre War American Flyer - there is always some new variation to find, or some research to conduct. My search at train shows and auctions will now have me looking for the "left hand" version of this accessory. The Lionel cap on the top of the standard is an interesting addition. All of my examples have the cast finial, but from the looks of them I suspect that some of them are actually reproductions.
ironmaster3404....as one of my trains is my mother's green 3110 steeplecab Oriental Limited passenger set from 1928!
How nice that you have your mother's train; First of all because it has stayed within the family and you know its history, and secondly because it was your Mother's train. I love hearing stories of girls receiving and keeping their trains. You have to wonder if that is one of the reasons their husbands were attracted to them in the first place. Who can resist a beautiful girl with a train?
Anyway, your comments about your set made me wonder if you actually might have The Explorer set from 1928. It was cataloged with the green 3110 and passenger cars. I don't have the cars to that set, but I wonder if they have Oriental Limited lithographed in the name board above the window. Please post some photos of the set if you can.
Quick question for you, I have a 559, a 531 and a 534 all with their original RDC coils for the remote directional reverse. I always thought these used a DC pulse like the Lionel whistle and have had sporadic success using my KW and ZW to actuate the RDC coil. I guess I was wanting to know if the little RDC control button ( I belive the catalog calls it a 540 control button) has anything special in it. I would kind of like to find a couple so I could set up using all original controls with my 12B for these loco's.
BTW, you nice City of Denver makes me want to put mine back together, its been in a box for about 8 years stripped and primed.....
The set that you inherited from your mother looks to be in great condition. Thanks for sharing the pictures and the story of its significance. I have never seen any buildings like the ones that you have. They are indeed a family treasure. You might want to post them as a seperate thread on the forum with a request for information. You will probably get a better response there. I know I would enjoy seeing the close up pictures that you have taken.
ogauge,
I'm afraid that I am not going to be much help to you either. I have almost no representative pieces from Gilbert's 3/16 O gauge line. From what I can tell from the Greenberg guide you have almost the whole range of wheel arrangements that they offered during its brief 3 year existance. The only thing you lack is an example of the 0-8-0.
Here are some links to catalog pages:
534 http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page6.htm
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page26.htm
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page30.htm
531
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page29.htm
559
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1940Catalog/AF_1940_catalog_page5.htm
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1940Catalog/AF_1940_catalog_page21.htm
When it comes to the electronics in these engines I am the last one to ask, but again from what I have read about the RDC operation your assumptions are correct. I have never seen a controller for reversing either. As with ironmaster, you might find answers to your questions if you posted a seperate thread on the main forum. There are some well informed Flyer guy's there who know more about the inner workings of the motors.
Thanks to both of you for posting. I'll be interested in answers to your searches too.
I posted pics in a new thread. I included front and back pics of all the houses.
Here is the link.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/167497/1840217.aspx#1840217
The Ironmaster
3/16th O gauge is not well knoen by the collector or the operator groups. Many would say that American Flyer was only made in 2 rail S gauge. Some would remember that 3 rail tinplate O existed, less that Wide Gauge was made for years. But least known of all is 3/16th O.
I do not have the entire collection of 3/16th O, but do have a the 806 Northern 4-8-4 with Remote Directional Control (RDC). When a Lionel Transformer with whistle button has the button depressed, the engine will stop, when released, the engine will continue in it's origional direction. Now, if the transformer control is brought to no voltage, the engine will also stop, and when voltage is again applied, it will be in neutral, and finally if cycled by the control arm once again, it will go into it's origional direction.
RDC is a direct current signal carried in the third rail from the transformer (if Lionel whistle button) to the RDC controler in the American Flyer engine. An over-ride is available by means of a hole about the dimension of a regular paper-clip in the top of th boiler, if the AF button is not available and a whistle button is also not available. (A non-RDC will have a slot and metal flat on-off for FNR in the same location).
AF and Lionel have made controllers which will send a DC signal on the third rail. These DC signals controllers can be set to provide either a positive or a negative signal. At the same time as AF made RDC, they also made the #490 whistling baggage car. As they both responded to the same polarity, the whistling baggage could only be used with FNR non-RDC 3/16th engines.
Lionel at the same time of the late 30's and early 40's brought out their scale masterpiece Hudson for T-rail solid track and lesser detailed Hudsons which run on 72" Dia. Tubular track. This and Lionel's B-6 were made with and without sound. When Lionel provided the equal of RDC, then they could not provide their whistle. until they found a controller able to offset the DC in both directions
I am given to understand that if the RDC quits working, they are almost impossible to fix. But if one recognizes that regular FNR is still there, then the engine has not become a shelf queen.
Best,
Hank Betz
Very true, Most don't know its exists... and that is part of the fun!!! I got the 559 about 30 years ago and from that point studied as much as I could on the subject. I've had all but the 0-8-0 but admittedly a good portion of my 3/16th's O Flyer has been what many would consider junk but I am happy to restore them. A few years ago I sold some of my favorites including a couple of 556's and 561's and a boxed passenger set among others.... the sting is still present. Just recently I have aquired two 556's a 553 and the 534 for a good price so I am once again smitten. I know what they are and truely belive they are all very much worth more than their postwar S counterparts (of which I have a few)... but thats just one guys opinion... They sure are tougher to find in any kind of usable condition!!!!!!! I'll have to post some pics of my "junk"
Happy 2nd Anniversary
Two years ago today I posted the first entry on this thread. When I started it I never expected that I would still be posting photos and stories to it. And I didn't envision the number of folks who would participate by posting photos, and their own stories and asking questions. It has been a great deal of fun for me; taking and posting photos, making strategic purchases to expand my collection and then sharing them with readers, waiting to see what the next post might be and by whom, and attempting to answer questions that have been posted. It has been a lot of fun and I have learned a lot. Its been my therapy, and I can tell you it has been very satisfying.
I want to thank all those who have posted to this thread. It would not be what it is today without their participation. And thanks to all of you who have read it. I hope that it has provided as much fun and enjoyment to you as it has to me. I also hope that it has provided a source of information.
One of my favorite catalog covers from American Flyer's Prewar era is the cover from 1936.
It has been one of my collecting goals to be able to reproduce that cover with the models produced by Flyer contained in the catalog. It has taken a number of years, but with the help of Santa and his elves I can finally do it. I added the Union Pacific set recently.
So here is my anniversary gift and greeting to all of us who enjoy Prewar American Flyer trains.
Greg, thank you. I may not be a frequent contributor to this thread, but I do enjoy the stories and pictures. I'm sure this thread will be a source of Flyer reference for years to come.
Cheers,
Graeme, Scotland
Northwoods Flyer,
Thanks for being such a great resource on all things American Flyer! I've spent several late nights (and early mornings) reading and researching AF history through this thread. I found our AF structures (mid- to late 1930's) here, along with my dad's train, the Pennsy passenger train set (steam locomotive, tender and three red cars) first offered in 1936. What a great catalog! That said, do you know how long AF sold the Pennsy passenger train set? (Any history would be appreciated. My dad believes he received his train as a Christmas present in 1939.) Any ideas on value today? (I never see one on eBay.)
Thanks again!
geeppe,
Hi Graeme, Its nice to hear from you and have you pay the thread a visit. I have appreciated seeing photos of your collection, and I think you provided a link to some video at one time. Please contribute anytime you have the opportunity. Do you have any examples of British Flyer?
O-GaugeOscar,
to the thread. Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad that it has provide you with some entertainment (and bags under your eyes? ) and that it has helped you find some information about your family trains. Your questions about your American Flyer Pennsylvania Passenger set sound deceptively easy to answer, but they point out the discrepencies that exist in resource material about Flyer, and the inconsistencies that Flyer has in their own catalog.
The very simple answer is that the Pennsylvania Passenger set was first cataloged in 1936 as set number 1710-RT
and appeared again in 1937 using basically the same catalog illustration and description but had a different set number of 1715.
By 1938 A.C. Gilbert had taken over the company and changes were taking place. The catalogs looked very different and the descriptions of items changed as did the items themselves. There is a Pennsylvania Passenger set labeled as Train Set No 2. I believe that is a misprint and should be Train Set No.3 (which is hand written in my original catalog), since the freight set on the previous page is also called Train Set No.2 . The 1938 catalog description of the set indicates that the cars are now blue and not red. The illustration of the set shows that there are different trucks on the cars.
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page13.htm
In 1939 the sets are no longer given names but only numbers. The red passenger cars and the streamlined engine are present in the catalog, but they are not sold together as a set. And the streamlined engine has a new nose design.
Streamlined engine
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1311/AF_catalog_page15.htm
Passenger cars
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1311/AF_catalog_page16.htm
During these years the Wide/Low Profile passenger cars went through a number of changes - particularly in the trucks used. The Streamlined passenger engine - Type XXI - also went through changes every year of the 4 years that it was cataloged (1936 - 1939). I have not seen enough original sets to know or verify which cars and engines were actually used in the sets. Again, Flyer is notorious for using pictures in their catalogs that did not match the actual components of sets.
I posted photos of a Pennsylvania Passenger set in the Christmas Wish List - 1936 a page earlier on the thread.
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