1936 Pennsylvania Sets
I have assembled a few more sets recently. They include two sets that feature the Pennsylvania Streamlined Locomotive that is based on the design by Raymond Loewy for the Broadway Limited. When you open the 1936 catalog they are the first sets that you meet.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
I ordered and received the correct replacement wheels for the Hudson and completed the repair of the trailing truck and illustrated the steps. [see page 74]
Next will be re-assembly of the locomotive.
. . . . all back together again, and running like a charm. These Hudsons are very nice, and they are brutes compared to any thing else I have. I love the fire glow. Which makes me wonder if there are such things as 14-18v orange flicker bulbs.
UPDATE: Found orange flicker lights (LED) that will run on AC transformer power. I'm going to order a couple and try them out in the Hudson fire box.
http://miniatures.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=miniatures&cdn=hobbies&tm=107&f=21&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=4&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//modeltrainsoftware.com/
That is a nice looking set Northwoods. Thanks for posting the catalog page too.
I have the passenger train above a door in my dining room (with a rogue baggage car).
Southern Coloroado Marx Flyer,
Thanks for the update on replacing wheels in pony and trailing trucks. I look forward to seeing what the flickering bulbs look like in the firebox lights. That would be an excellent upgrade.
The photo of your passenger set above the doors is nice too.
1937 Pennsylvania Freight Set #1716
In 1937 American Flyer repeated the two Pennsylvania sets from 1936. The main difference was that the streamlined engine went through several changes.
Most of the artwork used was the same as 1936 except that the engine and tender were now a grey color and the wheel configuration was changed to a 2-4-4.
I will be working on finding a suitable passenger set.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
Hello Northwoods. I'm not sure what passenger cars are appropriate for the 1937 version. There is a set of red enamel passenger cars with what I think are Type 8 trucks currently listed on eBay. They are not cheap, but I don't know what a fair price would be . . or even if they are the right cars.
I could link the eBay address, but I don't know if that is allowed on this forum.
I believe that the correct cars for the 1937 version are the red cars, same as the 1936 version. I know that I have 4 matching red cars that I put with a 1937 engine and tender, with the tender having the same cheap trucks as the cars.
I am unsure about the correctness of my 4 cars as a set and believe they may have been some sort of department store special. All I can say is the 4 cars are in excellent condition and match perfectly.
NWL
Nothing new in this post folks. I just wanted to add the 2012 Christmas Story to the thread. I hope you all had a great Christmas and are having a wonderful New Year
An American Flyer Tale for Christmas
2012 Edition
Toby wasn’t sure how he felt about Christmas coming. Of course he was excited about the presents that he hoped to get from mom and dad and there was always the growing anticipation to see if Santa would bring the special gifts that he had asked for. He had written two copies of his letter to Santa to make sure that he knew what Toby wanted. He had given one copy directly to Mr. Clark the mailman and the other copy he had put in the big mail box at the department store downtown labeled Direct Delivery – North Pole. Mom had started baking cookies before Thanksgiving and storing them in big tins that had old timey pictures on the covers of people in horse drawn sleighs and wearing old fashioned clothes. Great Aunt Ruby ordered a fruitcake from Texas every year and had it sent to Toby’s family. It always came in one of those tins. He knew that the cookie supply was secure. He had been practicing the songs that his class would sing for the Christmas Concert at school; one of them was in German. He had memorized his lines for the Christmas Pageant at church. This year he was one of the Wise Men with a speaking part. He liked dressing up in the royal looking robes. He had to wear a fake beard made out of brown fuzzy cords. It tickled his nose and he was afraid that it would make him sneeze. His dad had teased him, telling him to be careful not to sneeze so hard that he blew the beard off and it would land in the manger on the Baby Jesus. That had made Toby laugh, but he still worried about sneezing.
All of these things made him feel excited and happy as Christmas approached. They were the things that he looked forward to each year. But there were some big changes that had happened in the last year and Toby wasn’t sure how he felt about them or how they would effect Christmas.
Toby’s grandparents lived in a different state. His family went to visit them several times each year and Grandma and Grandpa came to visit often, especially when Toby or one of his sisters had a special event like a school program or a big game. His family always went home to Grandma and Grandpa’s big house for Christmas. Dad and his brothers and sisters had grown up in that house. Grandpa had grown up in that house too. Last year as they were preparing to go to Grandma and Grandpa’s house for Christmas mom and dad told them to pay special attention to this celebration because it would be the last Christmas at the big house. Grandma and Grandpa had decided to put it up for sale and move to something smaller and easier to take care of.
Toby loved Grandma and Grandpa’s house, especially when all of his aunts and uncles and cousins were there at Christmas. It was fun to eat their meals together. The grown ups would sit at the big table that filled the dining room. The cousins all sat at two folding tables in the living room. The windows in both rooms were large and had stained glass panels with faceted jewels at the top. When the sunlight was just right it made rainbows dance around the room. He liked sitting there hearing the stories his cousins told, but he especially loved hearing the stories that the adults told about when they were children. He had learned some very interesting things about his dad by listening to these stories. The house had another room on the main floor that Grandma called the parlor. In that room stood the huge Fraser fir decorated with more ornaments and lights than some of the trees in the department store back home. At the base of that tree there was always a mountain of gifts. Toby was interested in those, but what fascinated him the most was the big train that ran around the base of the tree through the mountains and tunnels made by the stacks of gifts.
Grandpa told him that he remembered that train circling the tree every year when he was a boy. Grandpa and Great Aunt Ruby would lie on the parlor floor watching the train travel round and round and imagine the places that it was carrying its passengers; “New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and all points west!” It was a big train with a big black steam engine and dark blue passenger cars. Toby knew it was an American Flyer Presidents Special from 1927. He also knew that the black steam engine was one that Grandpa had purchased from a friend. The set had a big electric style engine, but Grandpa liked it better headed by the steamer. The matching blue engine was there under the tree too, and Grandpa would occasionally run it.
You could get to the second floor of the house by either of two stair cases. One set started in the front entry hall. The second set started in the kitchen. They met at a landing and then one more set of stairs set at a right angle to the other two led to the second floor. Toby and his cousins loved playing mountain climber on those stairs, spending hours going up one side and down the other. Sometimes they even tried to yodel when they reached the top. That usually brought peals of laughter from the adults downstairs. The second floor had a long corridor, off of which were doors that led to most of the bedrooms. Each family had one bedroom to sleep in. Toby thought that it was probably the room that his aunts or uncles had when they were growing up. He knew that the bedroom his family stayed in had been his dad’s room. The adults slept in the big comfy beds while the children slept on the floor in sleeping bags or under cozy down quilts. Some of the bedrooms had fireplaces. It was hard to fall asleep during the nights before Christmas, but Toby would snuggle down into his comforter and watch the flames lick at the logs behind the glass doors of the fireplace. Before he knew it the sun was shining and he could smell pancakes and bacon cooking down in the kitchen.
At the end of the central hallway was another staircase that led to the third floor. Of all of the places in the big house the third floor was the one that Toby liked best. The stairs led to a large room that had funny angles to the ceiling because it was right up under the roof. It was filled with big comfortable chairs and cases with glass doors filled with books. It was stocked with all the toys and games that his aunts and uncles had played with as children. It was a fun place to be on a rainy day because you could cuddle up in a chair, read a book and listen to the wind blow and the rain beat down on the roof. There was a wooden door in the back wall of the room, and it led to the place that Toby loved more than any other in the big house. He still remembered the first time that Grandpa had taken him there. He opened the door and at first all that Toby could see were the three windows at the other end of the room. There was a tall central window that had a rounded top and two shorter windows, one on each side, that were flat on top. The middle rounded top window went from the floor almost to the point of the ceiling. Then Grandpa pushed one of the two round buttons in the light switch on the wall and Toby gasped. The room was almost filled with tables that held a train layout spread out on them. As far as Toby could see there was a maze of three rail track with switches and sidings, metal buildings and signals. Everything was bright and colorful. Toby and his dad had a train layout in their basement at home, but it was much smaller, and it was HO. This was an O gauge layout. The track was smaller than the Wide Gauge train around the Christmas tree. Dad told Toby that Grandpa had trains from when he was a little boy but he had also been collecting toy trains ever since dad could remember; and all of them were made by American Flyer.
Toby and Grandpa spent hours and hours in that room when he visited. He knew what all of the trains were because Grandpa had told him about them and showed them pictures of each train in the original catalogs. As he got older Grandpa let him put them on the tracks and run them. The engines and cars had names in the catalogs. He liked some of the really old ones like “The Frontenac” that was all green, “The Oriental Limited” that was orange, “The Bluebird” that was a deep dark blue like the Presidents Special that ran around the Christmas tree downstairs in the parlor, and “The Ambassador” that was bright red and had lots of brass on it and passenger cars that were 11 inches long.
There was one train that Toby liked better than any other. It wasn’t the oldest and it wasn’t the most colorful, but whenever Grandpa asked him which train he wanted to run Toby pointed to the No. 304 Freight Train from 1939. The engine was a streamlined steam engine. It looked sleek and powerful. It was different than the other steam engines because it had a front that reminded him of a Roman soldier’s helmet. Grandpa told him it was a copy of a real steam engine that had been created by a famous industrial designer; but Toby could never remember his name. The set had several freight cars that he would hook up to the engine and move from town to town on the layout. Sometimes Grandpa would have the set stored away in the boxes under the layout. The original box the set came in had a paper label on it with a steam engine and a streamlined engine. Toby knew just where Grandpa kept it stored under the layout.
At the end of the Christmas holiday last year Toby and Grandpa were up on the third floor running trains until it was time for his family to leave. Dad had come up to the train room and watched them for a few minutes and then softly said “Its time to go.” Toby stood at the door and took one last look at everything. Grandpa stood behind him, placed his hands on Toby’s shoulders and looked too. Then he leaned over and kissed the top of Toby’s head. Grandpa reached over and pushed the button on the light switch, gently closed the door, and they down the stairs together.
Saying goodbye always took forever in Toby’s family. There were kisses to give and words of advice and encouragement. It amazed him that there were still questions being asked and information exchanged even after spending days together. Finally Toby climbed into the car and took his regular spot. Grandma and Grandpa stood on the big front porch and waved. Grandma wiped her eyes with a tissue. Toby let his eyes wander up to the third floor windows for just a second. The sun was reflecting off the round top of the tall middle window. Then dad turned the corner and it was all gone.
Back home life settled into the usual busy routine and Toby had little time to think about Grandma and Grandpa. Dad would be on the phone with one of them fairly often and he would give updates on the changes taking place. First came the news that Grandma and Grandpa had found a house they liked. Dad was a little sad the day that he reported that the real estate agent had put a For Sale sign in front of the big house. Then Grandma and Grandpa made an offer on the smaller house, it was accepted and they were setting a day to move. One week during the summer mom and dad traveled to the big house and Toby and his sisters stayed with friends. They were going to get furniture and other things that were dad’s because the new house was much smaller and there wasn’t enough room for Grandma and Grandpa to take everything with them.
Then one day a moving van pulled up to Toby’s house and some men started unloading boxes and furniture wrapped in heavy pads and blankets. As the men unwrapped the furniture and put it in the garage he recognized the furniture from the bedroom in the big house where his family stayed. They carried in the bed with the headboard that was at least six feet tall with all kinds of carved curlicues at the top and the dresser with matching carvings, and a big mirror. Eventually they unwrapped all of the furniture from dad’s room at the big house. There was one particularly large wrapped piece that puzzled Toby until they took the padding off. It was his favorite chair with the big wings from the third floor playroom. Mom had the movers put that directly into Toby’s bedroom right by the window. He sat down in the chair, closed his eyes and breathed in deeply. It smelled like Grandma and Grandpa’s house, and he smiled.
It took mom and dad several weeks to rearrange the furniture in their house and move the things from the big house in from the garage. The old bedroom furniture went into their bedroom. There were plenty of boxes from the big house too. It took even longer to unpack those. Toby was mildly interested, but not one of them contained any trains. He wondered what had happened to Grandpa’s train collection, but he was afraid to ask. Dad had talked about many things being sold at an auction and Toby feared that other people were playing with the trains he had known all his life.
Finally it was Christmas break and Toby’s family was on their way to Grandma and Grandpa’s new house. Toby had not been there yet but he had seen pictures of it. It looked nice but it was small and only one story. He knew that his family would be staying at a motel not far from the new house. And all of his aunts and uncles were staying there too. As they drove along he tried to imagine what the new house was like inside. His thoughts wandered to the third floor of the big house, and he wondered where the trains had gone, and he wondered if Grandpa was sad. He didn’t like those thoughts so he shook his head and tried to imagine all of the good food they would eat and where everyone would sit for Christmas dinner, and what Santa had left under the tree for him.
When they got to the motel the rest of the family members were there already. There was much hugging and kissing and exclamations of “Oh my, Toby you look like you have grown a foot!” It wasn’t that much, but it made him feel good. All of the families had rooms very close to one another and all of the cousins wandered back and forth among the rooms.
After a while dad called Toby’s family together and said it was time to go to the new house. The ride wasn’t long but it seemed that his feelings were very mixed up. He felt both excited and worried at the same time. Dad pulled the car up in front of a house that Toby recognized from the photos. The windows were all aglow. He noticed that there were lights around the windows; the same lights that had been around the windows at the big house. As the family started to get out of the car, suddenly the front door opened spilling the warm light from inside on to the small porch and sidewalk. It seemed like Grandma and Grandpa were spilling out of the house too. There was a great deal more hugging and kissing and exclaiming. As Toby walked through the front door he recognized a familiar aroma. Grandma was cooking something wonderful. The new house seemed as familiar as the big house. Everyone hung up their coats and started to walk into the living room where a fire was crackling in a small fireplace. Immediately Toby spied the Christmas tree, it was still a Fraser fir. It was smaller than other years but it was just as tightly packed with the lights and ornaments that he remembered. There were mountains of packages around the tree as usual. Toby could hardly believe his eyes. Circling the tree was the big black steam engine pulling the 1927 American Flyer Presidents Special. He broke into a big smile. He looked up at Grandpa, who was smiling too; and he winked at Toby.
Very shortly the other family members started to arrive and it was chaos for a while. Eventually the adults all sat down at the big table that didn’t quite fit in the dining room. It intruded into the living room and one of the chairs was almost in front of the Christmas tree. All of the cousins still sat at folding tables placed in a room that Grandma called the sun porch and in the front hall. Everyone still fit.
When the meal was finished and the last morsels of pie eaten it was time to open presents. It was another time of chaos. The folding tables were taken down while dishes were being washed and dried. The extra leaves were taken out of the table and the chairs repositioned. The adults found places to sit on chairs. Most of the cousins found places to sit on the floor. It was the job of Toby’s older cousins to distribute the gifts. He sat and waited for the packages with his name on them to be handed to him.
It took a long time for everyone to open their gifts. Toby was most curious about the oddly shaped gift that had a tag on it saying it was from Grandma and Grandpa. When it came time for him to open it he chuckled because it was several boxes taped together and a wad of cloth here and there to give it its odd shape. He opened the biggest box and found it stuffed with crumpled up newspaper. Digging through it he found another box wrapped in red and white striped paper. Something seemed vaguely familiar about its shape. He started to tear at the wrapping paper. The first thing he saw was the familiar American Flyer label with the steam engine and the streamlined engine. Toby drew in his breath sharply. In his hands was his beloved No. 304 Freight Train from 1939. “I thought it was gone forever.” That brought some chuckles from the family. When the next person began opening their present Grandpa leaned over to him and whispered “I have something to show you later.” Toby nodded and whispered back “Thank you Grandpa, Thank you so much.” He had a hard time paying attention to the rest of the gift opening. He carefully opened each of the old boxes and examined the car inside. The gun metal engine looked and felt powerful in his hands. He could hardly believe that it was his now. It was going to be difficult to wait until he could watch it pulling the consist of freight cars along the track. He noticed that Grandpa had included enough track in the box so that he could set up an oval of track, an oval that would go around his Christmas tree at home.
When the presents were all opened the adults sat talking and sipping a cup of coffee or tea or a glass of egg nog and nibbling cookies. The cousins were all busy playing with a new toy or trying out a new game. Toby sat contentedly with his old friend resting in his lap. Grandpa motioned for him to come over to him. Softly he said, “Get your coat and come with me.” Toby slipped on his coat while Grandpa put on his. He followed Grandpa through the kitchen and out the back door. It was dark out but the moon was bright enough for Toby to make his way. He noticed that there was a path through the snow that led to the garage. Toby hadn’t paid much attention to it when they arrived but now he noticed something unusual about it.
It had a second floor that loomed above the two sets of garage doors. He was surprised to see that on the second level there were three windows grouped together. The center window was taller than the other two and it had a rounded top. Grandpa led him to the service door of the garage and unlocked it. They stepped inside and turned on the lights and stamped the snow off their feet. Along the back wall there was a flight of stairs that led to the second floor. Grandpa led the way up the stairs. As Toby’s head cleared the floor he could see the moonlight shining through the three windows. Grandpa turned on the lights and Toby let out a cry of delight. There in front of him was Grandpa’s train collection. The second floor of the garage was filled with tables that held a maze of tracks and switches and sidings. The layout was even larger than the one at the big house. Here were all of the colorful building and accessories that Toby knew and loved. Even better, there were rows and rows of shelves on every wall where Grandpa had every one of his American Flyer trains on display.
“Grandpa, I thought you had sold everything!”
“Not a chance Toby. I still have lots of collecting to do; and you and I have trains to run.”
Toby smiled and said. “Thanks for the freight set Grandpa; you know it’s my favorite.”
“I sure do. I couldn’t think of anyone who would appreciate it more, and your family needs to have a real train around your tree. Besides, I have a lead on an early variation of an Illini set and I need space to display it. Just don’t tell your grandmother that I am buying another train!”
Toby hugged Grandpa as they laughed about that.
Here are some photos of Toby's No. 304 Freight Train from 1939.
Wow! What a terrific story Northwoods. I still have tears in my eyes. Toby is a very lucky boy, and you a very blessed grandpa.
PS: I'd love to see pictures of the room above the garage, although your excellent descriptions created great images in my mind.
Southern Colorado Marx Flyer,
I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I had a lot of fun writing it. However, I have to confess that the story is pretty much a work of fiction. Over the years I have read a number of times that if you are going to write about something it ought to be about things that you have some knowledge. The story this year as well as the one that I wrote last year are drawn from stories in my family, and people that either I or my parents knew. I have woven many bits and pieces of fact into both stories
So Toby isn't a real boy, he is based on many boys who have been introduced to the hobby by a father or grandfather. I am not a grandfather yet, my children are college age. The train room above the garage as described does not yet exist. It is what I hope to do with the collection when we downsize or move to another house. The Northwoods Flyer Collection and the Blueboard Central fill a little more than half of our current basement, but a significant portion is stored in boxes, including an S gauge collection that is larger than the prewar collection that is on display. I have that train room/ museum pretty well conceived in my mind. You and I will have to compare mental images one day. The small element about the three part window in the big house and in the attic garage comes from the house I grew up in. It had a huge attic with those windows and over the years it housed numerous floor layouts. The most memorable for me being a Wide Gauge American Flyer layout.
Here are a few photos of the Collection. I think they may actually be posted somewhere else on the thread. Any over views of the Blueboard Central that I have are very old. I will have to work on taking some new ones, but at the moment things are a bit cluttered around the layout.
It was pretty darn good fiction then. You are a gifted writer, and tears are tears.
A while back I posted a couple times about repairing the worn bushings in a 9900 Zephyr motor. There were several very helpful replies with suggestions which I took to heart.
I just finished with those repairs and will outline the process.
First I drilled out the old bearings. I used a 1/4" bit for this.
Here are the bearings showing the elongation:
Then I used a taper reamer to enlarge the holes to fit a 5/16" brass tube, which I inserted and measured. The tube would not extend past the roller assembly, so I marked the tube. . .
. . .and used a small tube cutter to cut off the small section.
I soldered the tube section using a small propane soldering torch and silver solder.
Then I ground the surface flat.
Next I used progressively smaller brass tubing to reduce the size of the axle hole. These tubes extended across the frame, and were cut off flush. They were then soldered in and ground flush. The final brass tube section (which was 3/16") was cut to fit over the axle and move freely.
Finally, I pressed the wheels onto the axles and fitted them and the gear back onto the frame. With a little nudging and adjustment, the gear train worked smooth as silk.
Success! Well, not quite. I hooked up the motor and . . .nothing . . . just a few sparks. It's looking like the motor has a short, I think in the armature. There is electrical continuity between the three lobes of the armature, and I don't think there should be. I'll see if I can fix it, but I think it might be beyond my skills.
A more intelligent person would have made sure the motor was working or repairable before replacing the axle bearings. But I guess I did learn that the latter can be done, and seems to be an effective method of repair - which is why I have gone ahead and posted the information.
Craig
Craig,
Before tossing the motor aside as unfixable, take a close look at the reverse switch. Try bypassing the reverse switch and seeing if the motor will run. I have found these types of reverse switches to be very touchy as they tend to warp and not make contact correctly.
If the three lobes you are talking about are the three copper sections of the commutator, they should have continuity. What you don't want is continuity between any of the commutator sections and the shaft of the armature. That would indicate a short between the windings of the armature and the shaft. A good person to contact about motor problems is Bob Hannon at hannon@trainrefs.com. His web site is http://trainrefs.com.
strainst
Well y'all gave me motivation to keep working on this motor.
NWL I did bypass the reverse mechanism without luck. The problem is that there is continuity between the rollers and frame - so there is a short somewhere.
Thank you for the info on the armature strainst. The continuity is between the sections but not between the sections and the armature shaft. I checked my other 9900 motor (waiting to be rewheeled) and it is the same. That is a relief.
So, back to experimentation.
Here is the weird part. When the brush plate is removed there is no continuity between the rollers and frame. Put the brush plate back on and the continuity (short) is back. I had originally thought the armature was shorted and was allowing current to pass between hot (roller) and ground (frame). But this is not the problem. The armature is fine. I looked over the brush plate carefully and could see no obvious defects, but there must be. I then tried mounting the brush plate with just one of the three screws and found an interesting issue. If I don't use the bottom screw, the continuity is not present and . . .voila . . the motor runs when power is put to it. What a sweet sound! Put the bottom screw in and it is shorted again.
So now I have insulated the bottom of the brush plate with a piece of electrical tape, left the bottom screw out, and tightened the top two screws. I'll go to the hardware store tomorrow and see if I can find a nylon screw that is the right size to use on the bottom. The other possibility is that there is some piece of metal that has lodged at the bottom of the motor, and the bottom screw makes contact with it. I can't see in there and I'm not going to pull the motor case apart. I'll just use the nylon screw (voodoo) solution and call it good.
Thank you guys for your suggestions and encouragement.
Strainst, I may contact Mr. Hannon to see if he has any idea what is going on with this motor. Thanks for the link.
The problem may be that the insulation on the wire from the power pickup to the bottom of the windings may have deteriorated and when the screw is inserted it touches bare wire from the power pickup.
I have seen this wire insulation deteriorate and break apart before. You may try taking the armature out and examining the lower part of the motor. I would take the armature out and then put the problem screw in without the brush plate and see if it rubs or makes connection with something.
Thanks NWL. That sounds like a good possibility. I'll give it a try.
UPDATE: Yep, just the screw alone did it. When I looked in the screw hole I could see bare copper. I pushed a length of heat shrink as far as it would go along one of the lighting wires. I also injected some silicone into the screw hole. So now I can use all three screws.
The rotting insulation on the internal motor wires makes further problems possible, but for now it is running. Thanks for your help.
Thanks for giving such a great description and visual record of your work on these projects. Please keep us posted on any new projects and additonal progress on what you have already shared.
4006 Wide Gauge Hopper
The 4006 Hopper was cataloged from 1931 through 1936. It tends to be a bit more difficult to find than the other Wide Gauge freight cars.
Northwoods,
Does anyone know why this tread almost always locks up and always slows down my PC?? Is it too big or long or something? It is the only tread I have this kind of issue with on the forum and it has been that way since I started reading it two years ago????
P.S. how do your pre war AF run on the lionel Fastrack? They don't work very well on my 027 track so I am looking for something they will work on other than their original track I have.
Tks,
Joined 1-21-2011 TCA 13-68614
Kev, From The North Bluff Above Marseilles IL.
Kev,
I am one of the last persons who would know anything about how this site loads. It loads just as quickly on my PC as any of the other threads. Maybe one of the folks who keeps this thing running can answer your question. Sorry I can't be of help with that.
As far as PreWar Flyer running on Fastrack....All of my engines and rolling stock run quite well on Fastrack as long as there are no switches. Very few of the engines like the switches or any of the other special track sections, like the road crossings. The engines tend to hit and bounce when they go over the Fastrack switches often causing a derailment. That is one of the reasons that I designed the layout as a folded dogbone without switches. The Blueboard Central's main purpose is to give me a place to run the trains and display them in running action. I am not concerned about operations that might mimic anything prototypical.
Thanks Northwoods I was afraid you were going to tell me something bad about switches. I want something I can run all of my trains on and don't want to have to build for each type. Starting to think I can't get there from here.
I experimented with switches on my first layout, on which I used Gargraves track. I found that the wider wheel flanges on most Flyer pre-war engines did not make it over the frogs on the switches, which are designed for narrow flanges. This limits out all Flyer pre-war boxcab electrics and early steam engines. The only pre-war engines that would go through the switches without derailing were the late, larger steam engines, which have narrow flanges.
Mind you, this problem only cropped up with the Gargraves style switches. I am guessing that original flyer pre-war switches should work with all pre-war flyer engines. So if you are using tubular style track similar to the pre-war track you should have no problems with switches.
When I rebuilt my layout at my current home, I removed all of the switches and built the loops without switches.
I have also had a lot of trouble with derailing of prewar trains on modern switches. I've had the best luck with old K-Line 0-42 switches (K-376 for the right hand switch). I found that both Coleman and Gilbert 3 rail switches tended to derail many locomotives (the front rollers sometimes caught on the switches, and they would rip off the sliding shoes on Lionel operating cars). I haven't tried the Fastrack switches since I wanted 0-42 track. But with all makes of American and European pre-war trains, the "0-gauge" is nominal at best. I can get most cars to go through the K-Line switches by cutting the proper length of plastic soda straw on the interior of the axles to keep the inner rims wheels at the right gauge to navigate switches (i.e., spread the rims as far apart as you can and still navigate the 0-gauge track, especially curves). You can cut the straw to length and remove the wheels to slip it on, or in cut to the right length, slit it down the length, and pop it on without removing the wheels. However, if the locomotive wheels are too close together, or if they are like some Marx locos with the wheel gears the same diameter as the wheels, you probably won't be able to find a "universal" switch or use a modern switch..
Thanks for the answers,
I have original AF prewar track and switches but I don't run my 1935 AF train that much. It sits on a static display in the living room. I am in the process of adding an additional 6' x 10' to my layout and would like to lay something down on it that I can run anything on. The old Prewar AF, Marx, Post war Lionel and modern Lionel.
As of now I am running Lionel 027 profile with 042, 054, and Marx 034"R track with Lionel 027 42R switches.
Northwoods, any positive contribution I could make to this thread is small compared to the great benefit and enjoyment I have received from it. It has been a wonderful wellspring of information, ideas and helpful folks.
In regard to switches, I hope to find a switch that will work for all of my tinplate. That includes American Flyer, Lionel, Marx, JEP, Hornby and Bing. My layout is O gauge Lionel track with a 42" min diameter curve. The Lionel 022 switches worked OK for the AF, JEP, Hornby and Lionel locomotives I ran, but stopped the pre-war Marx locomotives dead. I tried to modify an O22 switch by widening and lowering the "ramp" but it still had problems. The K-line switches (375, 376) seemed a little bumpier, and again would not pass Marx locos. I am going to try Marx and AF switches which will need a system of pin adaptation as these switches are O27 I believe - though I have read that AF at one point made O gauge switches. Once (and if) I find a switch that works, I will try a representative range of locomotives and report back on this thread.
KEV, my computer does not have a problem loading and navigating this thread. It may load a little slower on weekends, but that may just be weekend internet traffic. I use Mozilla Firefox if that has any bearing. A few years back I had problems with IE, but that may also have been my computer or service provider - both since changed.
UPDATE: Thank you Nickaix for the suggestion. I think I may have found the solution - at least for my set-up. My layout is comprised of two independent loops, each with two sidings. The sidings are not really part of an operational scheme other than to hold trains that are not running on the loops. I could just have track along the loops that are not connected with switches, but I wanted to see if I could find a switch that was functional, but would not interfere with the mainlines. So my main objective was a switch that would easily pass my range of locomotives. So far I have had success with the old-style Marx manual switch. I don't need remote as the remote control would only be a few inches from the switch, so it is just as easy to throw it by hand.
Since the Marx Manual switch is designed for O27, I had to do some slight modification. Several folks suggest using O27 pins and crimping the O gauge track. I thought this might weaken the electrical connection, so I used O gauge pins after carefully prying and enlarging the rail end openings on the switch. This was no problem at all. I also cut and placed a foam layer under the switch to bring it up to the height of the O gauge track. So far I have run an AF 3107, AF 1270, AF Hudson, AF 641, AF 9900 (cast), Ives 3250, Marx 999, several Marx Diesels, Lionel 249E, Hornby 8150, Hornby 9201, JEP 8001, and a small JEP steamer through the switch (set to straight). All passed through smoothly with no hesitation. I don't know the radius of the Marx switch turnouts and haven't run anything through the switch set to turnout, but this is not really a major concern for me - but I will try it when I get the sidings hooked up.
The lionel 1024 switch suggested by Nickaix might work as well, though it looks to me from the picture that there is a narrower space for the wide Marx wheels to pass through than with the Marx switch (and maybe a large center rail gap).
Lionel 1024 switches. I'll try them out when I get a pair.
Marx Manual switch (I think 608 and 609)
American Flyer #2 manual switches might work also, I haven't tried them yet. The earliest AF switches look to have too much of a gap for the center rail to work well.
So for my layout, I will go with the Marx switches on my main lines. There are also remote switches that may work, but I don't have need for remote operation.
You might have luck with a "closed frog" switch. On these, there are no narrow flangeways or guardrails that would interfere with the wide-wheel engines. A Lionel 1024 is one example. Hirth Hobbies made some wide-radius hi-rail-looking ones some years ago, too.
Happy Fifth Anniversary!
Well folks we have added 21 pages to this thread in the last year. I just spent a delightful time skimming through those pages to remind myself of what folks had contributed. Its an amazing array of information.
There are a number of new contributors, and once again let me say ! The postings this past year include: repair projects, sources for parts, documentation of variations and some very unusual items, loads of photos of #1107 and #1108 passenger cars, lighting projects, identification of the prototypes upon which engines and cars are based, excellent information on A.F. clockwork (pages and pages worth), a concentration of information on PreWar 3/16 O gauge equipment, accessory variations, and questions and answers.
I am amazed by the wealth of information that folks have contributed. I appreciate the willingness that folks have shown to share their knowledge and expertise in so many areas. More than anything I am gratified by the good will that is shown. It reinforces for me the belief that train folks of all kinds are some of the best folks around. I've had the priviledge to communicate with many folks through the thread. I look forward each day to see who has posted and what new question or contribution has been added.
Thank You again to all who contribute information or questions. And thank you to those who come to read. I hope that you find this thread as entertaining and as pleasent a way to spend your hobby time as I do. Many many thanks to Kalmbach for providing the forums and for allowing this thread to run as long as it has.
So lets get started on year 6. I can only imagine what visual delights are in store for us, and what new information will be added. I'm looking forward to making the aquaintance of new Flyer enthusiasts as well. I wonder what folks who discover the thread for the first time think of the challenge of reading 75 pages of American Flyer delights.
In honor of this fifth anniversary let me share a photo from the early days of the thread that shows 5 different sizes of enameled passenger cars.
Greg - Thank you for starting this great thread and maintaining it. It's my favorite, and it's what inspired me to branch away from my roots as an "S Gauge" fan. Over the past few years I've collected more PreWar treats than I would have imagined!
Again, a well deserved thanks!
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
Wide Gauge St Paul style Electric outline Locomotives
We haven't had much Wide Gauge equipment posted here for a while so I thought I would revisit it. I picked up a few new examples to add to the Northwoods Flyer Collection so I thought I would do a few Wide Gauge posts. The #4006 a few posts back is one of the recent additions. There are a few posts back on pages 12 through 14 and scattered throughtout the thread.
American Flyer produced their Wide Gauge line of equipment for a relatively short time - roughly 10 years. They produced some memorable trains in that time
They introduced the St Paul style electrics starting in 1928 and during the run of this style of locomotive they cataloged 5 different engine numbers.
In 1930 and 1931 they cataloged the #4633
Happy Fifth Anniversary Northwoods Flyer. I look forward to each and every post I get in my email.
I am looking for some information on a American Flyer train set I picked up this month. The train set consist of a Am Flyer 1101 A.F.M.C. locomotive and three 1120 Seattle passenger cars. When I looked up this locomotive in Alan Schuweiler's American Flyer Prewar O Gauge book, I found out this locomotive is listed as uncataloged, from 1924, and that it was included in a Montgomery Wards Catalog No. 100, in train set 48G 7. That set had a 1101 locomotive and two 1108(?) passenger cars. I wonder if he meant 1107 passenger cars as I am not aware of any 1108 passenger cars, just 1108 baggage cars. The lid on my train set just has an end label. Just to the left of the label is a faint stamp which looks like 4849. Is there anyone who follows this forum who has knowledge of Montgomery Ward train sets? Is 4849 a number they would have assigned to one of their train set? I seem to remember in some of the earlier posts, someone had some of the early Montgomery Ward catalogs. Have you seen this set in one of your catalogs? Of could this set be from another store like G. Sommers & Co.? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
This is the train set.
Here is the labeled end of the box.
A close up of the stamp 4849, it is not real clear but its the best I could get with my camera.
Remember when asked what his favorite train was that he owned, he answered, the next one I buy!
STRAINST
Wow! Great find.
I have some info on this that may shed some additional light.
The catalogs from 1922-23 and 1923-24 show a set number "Train No. 1101" and describes it as "Electric Type Locomotive No. 1095 without headlight, length 6 3/4 inches, two No 1120 Pullman cars length 5 1/2 inches each, length of train 21 inches, eight pieces of track including on track terminal and Rheostat, length of track 82 inches.
The cars appear the same as your with the exception instead of "Seattle" it say's "Pullman".
These early Flyer sets were often pieced out and produced into different sets. I also have a set from 1926? that you won't find in any catalog but closely resembles one from 1926.
Have you had the opportunity to run this set yet? It looks in great condition.
I have reproduction Wards 1922 catalog, which shows the set 48 C 10, but it only shows it with two cars and not the three like you have.
Another likely retailer would have been Butler Brothers, which was a wholesaler. They would number Flyer sets with their own numbers; however, I know that their numbering system does not match the number you have. In the 1920s, they were typically numbering their sets similar to this: 1F xxxx with the 4 x's representing a number.
Your set likely dates to 1923 and after, because the 1922 sets used a smaller motor that was installed in a cast iron frame and then used the same body.
I have a 1922 set that I purchased from the original owner's daughter. It is interesting in that it came with a blue 1107 and 1108 cars, both lettered for Baltimore and Ohio.
I also have a similar set to yours that came in a box marked 1101, with two green 1120 Seatlle cars.
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