2008 and the Coffee Pot is still on and over 3 years. Here we gather as friends with trains. Sweet ice tea too.

[Anonymous]

Why would you down convert an HD signal? I have a 1080i HD TV and the difference is night and day between Comcast and DirecTV. Comcast's compression rate is higher than DirecTV, that is why it isn't as clear. About the same as going from Composite Video to DVI. FiOS doesn't have to compress their signal because they have more than enough capacity on their fibre network.

The only way you can do a side-by-side comparison is to have all three signals coming into your house at one time. When I was living in Pittsburgh I was able to get both Comcast and DirecTV at the same time and was able to switch between the two, there is a huge difference. I haven't seen FiOS, but my BiL just had it installed (over Comcast) and he rants and raves about its clarity and sound.

Brent, 

Yours is the best explanation yet for a guy like me.  If I understand you, signal compression (less is better) and available bandwith or available capacity (more is better) from the source drive the picture quality to your house.  No, yes, maybe?

I also heard HD broadcast (decent rooftop antenna within a reasonable distance from the broadcast tower) matches or beats them all for signal quality, though channel selection is limited to what we old guys remember as VHF and UHF broadcast channels.  ABC is a broadcast channel.  HBO is a cable channel.

Have I got that right?

Jack 

By George (Jack) I think he's got it!

The off-air broadcasts are never compressed. They have no need to do so. In my area, depending on which antennae I were to buy, I would get somewhere around 20 off-air HD broadcasts, but they are all network broadcasts. I have contemplated doing this so I could get the Baltimore channels, Harrisburg channels, and York channels. But really only for the Baltimore channels.

John,
The signals are never down converted (conversion is changing the singal from one protocol to another - HD would have to be down converted to Standard Def, and that simply is not done by either Comcast or DirecTV). They do however compress the signal (digital signals can be compressed - much like windows files can be zipped - to save space). The more a signal is compressed the more pixelated the picture becomes, and the worse the sound quality becomes. DirecTV does not have to compress the signal at all because the signal is being transmitted via open air, this is why their dishes are only capable of supporting 5 signals (rooms) at a time. Comcast has been compressing signals for years, as do all cable companies, because their infrastructure simply can not support all the channels and extra BS (on demand, pay per view, phone, internet, etc) they are trying to put through the cabling. FiOS does not have these problems because it is Fibre from source to your device, cable uses Fibre to get to your home, but then converts over to copper core - which can not support the bandwidth that Fibre can.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

[johnandjulie13]

John,
The signals are never down converted (conversion is changing the singal from one protocol to another - HD would have to be down converted to Standard Def, and that simply is not done by either Comcast or DirecTV). They do however compress the signal (digital signals can be compressed - much like windows files can be zipped - to save space). The more a signal is compressed the more pixelated the picture becomes, and the worse the sound quality becomes. DirecTV does not have to compress the signal at all because the signal is being transmitted via open air, this is why their dishes are only capable of supporting 5 signals (rooms) at a time. Comcast has been compressing signals for years, as do all cable companies, because their infrastructure simply can not support all the channels and extra BS (on demand, pay per view, phone, internet, etc) they are trying to put through the cabling. FiOS does not have these problems because it is Fibre from source to your device, cable uses Fibre to get to your home, but then converts over to copper core - which can not support the bandwidth that Fibre can.

Hello Brent:

You clearly know more about this stuff than I do.  However, doing some searching on the web, I read from multiple sources that DirectTV in fact, compresses (my bad for using the wrong terminology) their signals more than cable.  However, consensus is that DirectTV uses a better encoding system that allows for a better picture, all other things being equal.  I also found out that Comcast, due to a cobbled together network, compresses their signal differently in different markets.  My signal may not be as compressed as yours, thus allowing you to see a much bigger difference between the two sources.  Again, I have no first hand knowledge, other than my opportunity to compare the pictures side by side while watching college football on ESPN HD.  And again, my eyes may not be as sensitive to the differences.

On another note, I do know that networks do upconvert (I think I am using the correct term) in order to save bandwidth.  There have been many times when I have been watching Fox, CBS, et al. and my television indicates that it is getting a 720p picture, yet the picture is less than stunning.  I believe they are just broadcasting the SD picture (i.e. less pixels), but sending it out on HD with less than stellar results.

In the end, since I only really watch television for sports, as long as I can get the game into my house with a good picture, I am happy.  We have been enjoying our Blu-Ray player the last couple of months for HD movies.

Regards,

John

[dbaker48]

Good morning

We have brite sun this morning but temp is only going to 31. I'm a little sore from running up and down stairs and snow removal yesterday. I think I will take some Motrin with me to the train show tomorrow.

Feel for you SJ, spent most of the day yesterday up and down a ladder, then the day before mowing lawn, and trimming some BIG Bird of Paradise plants.  Probably not as sore as  snow shoveling would be.

Whatched MIB (Men in Black) for the first time last night, MIL & FIL were here. It was a real hoot! The movie was funny and a good satire on Sci-Fi, actually watched both I & II.

Put some sound board up on the elevated G scale yesterday. Didn't notice a real difference. (Reminder: I have 2 tracks going around the room perimeter near the ceiling. 1 track is on the shelf, 2nd track is 4" higher, sitting on a styrofoam base.) Tried both tracks didn't notice any difference. I had available 64 linear feet of soundboard 4" wide, needed 102 feet to do both tracks complete. So decided to try just the lower track, no need to buy anymore if not getting any improvement. So got it installed 1/2 around the lower still very little difference. Looks better, but no significant sound dampening. Decided to go ahead and finish the lower track only. Only bad thing that happened is knocked my mahogoney engine off a shelf, shattering the cab. Will need to glue that back together.

Regarding TV's, everyone was after me for a long time, that I needed a  micro wave oven.  Finally decided to go and buy one, went to the store (it was on a Monday) saw the football game in color, came home with a color TV, no microwave.

Have a great day, plan on watching the race from Vegas, and working in train room.

Later
__________________
Don

[johnandjulie13]

Regarding TV's, everyone was after me for a long time, that I needed a  micro wave oven.  Finally decided to go and buy one, went to the store (it was on a Monday) saw the football game in color, came home with a color TV, no microwave.

__________________
Don

Who needs warm food anyway???

Regards,

John

[RockIsland52]

Why would you down convert an HD signal? I have a 1080i HD TV and the difference is night and day between Comcast and DirecTV. Comcast's compression rate is higher than DirecTV, that is why it isn't as clear. About the same as going from Composite Video to DVI. FiOS doesn't have to compress their signal because they have more than enough capacity on their fibre network.

The only way you can do a side-by-side comparison is to have all three signals coming into your house at one time. When I was living in Pittsburgh I was able to get both Comcast and DirecTV at the same time and was able to switch between the two, there is a huge difference. I haven't seen FiOS, but my BiL just had it installed (over Comcast) and he rants and raves about its clarity and sound.

Brent, 

Yours is the best explanation yet for a guy like me.  If I understand you, signal compression (less is better) and available bandwith or available capacity (more is better) from the source drive the picture quality to your house.  No, yes, maybe?

I also heard HD broadcast (decent rooftop antenna within a reasonable distance from the broadcast tower) matches or beats them all for signal quality, though channel selection is limited to what we old guys remember as VHF and UHF broadcast channels.  ABC is a broadcast channel.  HBO is a cable channel.

Have I got that right?

Jack 

By George (Jack) I think he's got it!

The off-air broadcasts are never compressed. They have no need to do so. In my area, depending on which antennae I were to buy, I would get somewhere around 20 off-air HD broadcasts, but they are all network broadcasts. I have contemplated doing this so I could get the Baltimore channels, Harrisburg channels, and York channels. But really only for the Baltimore channels.

John,
The signals are never down converted (conversion is changing the singal from one protocol to another - HD would have to be down converted to Standard Def, and that simply is not done by either Comcast or DirecTV). They do however compress the signal (digital signals can be compressed - much like windows files can be zipped - to save space). The more a signal is compressed the more pixelated the picture becomes, and the worse the sound quality becomes. DirecTV does not have to compress the signal at all because the signal is being transmitted via open air, this is why their dishes are only capable of supporting 5 signals (rooms) at a time. Comcast has been compressing signals for years, as do all cable companies, because their infrastructure simply can not support all the channels and extra BS (on demand, pay per view, phone, internet, etc) they are trying to put through the cabling. FiOS does not have these problems because it is Fibre from source to your device, cable uses Fibre to get to your home, but then converts over to copper core - which can not support the bandwidth that Fibre can.

Thanks Dr. Lionroar, PHD, who loves technology. 

Thanks, Brent, your alter ego, who loves trains.

You are answering and explaining stuff in a paragraph I have not read clearly and succinctly summarized anywhere.  Bottom line, the average Joe (me) listens and reads the barrage of information and in the end doesn't know who to believe, which is better, and why.

More than thirty years ago, cable took off because of incessant signal problems in big cities and in high rise residential buildings. Twenty five years ago TV cable companies became increasingly interested in expanding into the outlying markets, including residential single family dwellings, the largest market still untapped.  The cable companies' offered a better product by adding programming you couldn't get with a rooftop antenna.

Picture quality was driven by your selection of TV set (Sony!!!! No baloney), and the TV was the weak link. Next came the day when a majority of TV sets began to chase the signal's capabilities. Then came digital signals.  Then HD technology and digital/HD signals.  Today both TV technology and signal technology are pushing and extending the limits of "the best picture" simultaneously.  Right?  

If Verizon's FiOS runs the signal over fibreoptic all the way from the signal source to my TV/device (better), why would Comcast similarly run a signal over fibreoptic cable all the way to the front of my house and then drop the ball so to speak, degrading that signal with copper core cable when installing cable from the street to and then in the house?  

Is it because of installation cost (fibre cable more expensive)?  Is it because Comcast is saddled with a network (of older cable technology from what they acquired and what had been installed over the last 25 years)?   Is it because Verizon FIos is relatively new and all of the network starting from the source is new, including installation of all new fibre signal/cable from the street into your house and right to the device (TV)?

And with regard to signal compression to accommodate sheer increases in traffic volume (# of customers and # of channels, etc.) over the same wire, is Comcast at a disadvantage because Verizon is a relatively new player with less traffic?  Won't that catch up to Verizon and affect them as well?

At last some answers.  I always thought my SIL had a better picture with his Sony and Direct TV satellite than I did with my Sony and Comcast cable.  Maybe my aging eyes weren't deceiving me after all.

Jack  

[edw]

If we had spent all the money we have spent subsidising the Oil industry for the last 30 years on solar cell research we would have solar cells the size of a half dollar that would provide enough power to run your car.

Hello Brent, just getting around to checking on the Pot after several days, and I couldn't resist commenting on your earlier post.  

I agree that we need to change the priorities of our energy policy, however, your belief that additional research money could produce small photovoltaic cells with enormous power, overlooks some fundamental limitations on that technology.

Let us assume, just for the sake of discussion, that additional research spending succeeded in increasing the conversion efficiency of photovoltaic cells from their current 20%, all the way up to a theoretical 100%. In other words, every bit of the energy striking a solar cell would be converted into useable electricity, with no losses.

Would such a magic solar cell instantly solve our transportation energy needs? No. The reason is that at our distance from the sun, photovoltaic cells need a lot of surface area just to generate modest amounts of power.

The average amount of solar radiation reaching the earth's upper atmosphere is estimated to be about 1370 Watts per square meter.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/ast99/ast99413.htm

After atmospheric filtering, the amount of light energy that actually reaches the ground is about a kilowatt per square meter. Unfortunately, due to the Laws of Thermodynamics, even operating at 100% efficiency, the maximum output of a photovoltaic cell (absent some means to  concentrate the light) would be limited to about 1 kilowatt per square meter. To put this energy output into perspective, a kilowatt of power is roughly equivalent to about 3400 Btu of energy. Compare this with one gallon of gasoline, which contains about 120,000 Btu of energy. I'm afraid that those half-dollar sized solar cell of yours wouldn't even power your CD player, let alone run your car. Even a large photovoltaic array covering about six square meters (the surface of a large car), would only generate the equivalent of about 6-8 HP.

Now, solar powered vehicles certainly exist, but the ones we see and read about in the news usually weigh only a fraction of what a real car weighs, and cannot accelerate as we do in normal driving. As such, photovoltaic generated power seems better suited for large-scale installations, as on rooftops, rather than in transportation applications where you need to quickly move large amounts of mass.

I hope no one takes this little mental exercise of mine as a knock on solar energy. On the contrary, I would like to see the research budgets for all renewable energy sources increased dramatically. My analysis was merely intended to illustrate some of the inherent limitations this particular technology faces. Who knows, scientists may someday produce a hand held energy source powerful enough to move a locomotive. However, you can bet your half-dollar it won't be solar powered.

[GregM]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

 

Same thing for my daughter and son-in-law in Worthington.  Too many trees.

[Brutus]

I used to read Analog magazine back in the 70's and I swear they had several different stories back then involving arrays of solar cells on stationary satellites beaming power via large lasers to collectors on earth, or various versions of this setup.  Then I saw the movie Real Genius and realized just what this would end up being used for - super weapon!

Preordered the John Bull from Electric Trains Outlet on Page Ave.  Nice guys.  Also picked up 2 more switches and some more gg track.  They need to get some more "regular" ross switches without motors, I hope soon!  Eventually, I'll motorize these.  Have some questions on the best way to wire these now so that will go smoothly - but, OTOH, I'll be redoing my layout by then anyway....  We'll see.

Going out to friends' house for dinner and stuff, but might be back on before bed - very late!  TTFN

[Anonymous]

Evening all!

Spent the day playing with Legacy Cab2 and my EOB engines.  Used the Altas 0-6-0 for it's intended duties...switching!  Loads of fun especially with a new double slip switch on the layout. 

No money left for cable or new fangled TV.  Here's one that Doug should remember.  It's what we watch in the kitchen.

Seriously though, I converted this Philco Predicta when I found the original workings to be too far gone.  A Westinghouse LCD unit fit right into the original video tube frame.  Restoring the cabinet took more time than it did to addapt the new workings.  Got my eye on an early 50's Crosley floor model for my next conversion.

Bruce Webster

[Anonymous]

Jack,
I've been researching this for a long time, and speaking with many people who work or have worked for all three companies. Comcast chose to go this route solely on cost, same with AT&T cable. Verizon is committed to Fibre all the way and this is why it is taking them longer to get every house access to FiOS.

edw,
I live in Mt Airy, MD which is 17 miles from Frederick, MD which just so happens to be the Headquarters of BP Solar, the second largest manufacturer of photo-voltaic solar panels in the USA. You may be right that we won't be able to power a vehicle with a solar cell the size of a half dollar, but I will stand by my statement that if our government were to invest in solar, wide, and tidal electricity generation our dependancy on coal and petroleum will be greatly reduced.

Lets see, in 1964 Kennedy said we would land on the moon by the end of the decade. Everyone thought he was nuts, but look what happened. There have been a lot of advancements that came from the space race.

My point is we need to invest in these technologies to further their development. Heck, just 20 years ago the only thing solar was used for was to heat water, now we can power an entire home, office building, community from solar panels.

[Anonymous]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

 

Same thing for my daughter and son-in-law in Worthington.  Too many trees.

This has always dumbfounded me... my house sits on 1.3 wooded acres with 60 - 80 ft oak trees within 30 feet of the house. Unless you live in a single level rancher, you should be able to mount the dish on your roof and gain signal.

take a look at what I'm referring to: http://www.distorteduniverse.com/House/Tour/gallery.asp you can see the dish in picture 7, the one on the back of the house is no longer there (it was an old Dish Network dish).

There is always a fix for a tall tree... Skil makes some nice ones.

[wrmcclellan]

Evening all!

Back from Las Vegas and still solvent .

Watching Second Hand Lions. Great movie. These guys in the movie remind me of my great- uncle (and great-aunt) that lived out between Brenham and Bellville on a small farm. Used to stay there for a few weeks for several summers back in the mid-60's. No air conditioning except fans in the windows and house. Went to bed at sun down and got up at 5 (UGH). Learned to drive a tractor and spents days mowing part of the fields. It was hot.

Anyway - hope all are doing well!

[ChiefEagles]

Buckeye, put on your tree spikes and take the dish up the tree.  [no joke, I've seen one in a tree]   Big day at the store.  Sold lots of chargers.  Only 10 of the top seller left.  VP called me to thank me.  Had a big bait of wings for dinner.  Probably not coming back to Charlotte next week.  May have the week off?????  May go to Savannah.  Will know more tomorrow.  Just watched movie [do not know the name] on HBO but it is the remake of Rear Window [James Stewart and Grace Kelly] but has teens doing the "detective" work.  Was really good.  Later

[cheapclassics]

Good evening all,

IIABSDISEI with temps in the 40s.  Started the day off with a great breakfast of waffles and bacon on the dining car from "Points East", but my "saucy wench" (as she refers to herself) in the kitchen claimed part of the responsibility.  Did housework and my sudoku.  Did some shopping and showed my dad the video from the IRL unity announcement when he came over for a while.  I went to the YMCA and did walking for an hour at a 4.3 MPH pace.  My wife and I went to Frisch's for supper and then to a movie, "The Spiderwick Chronicles".  It was a good day.  All this talk about cable and satellite makes me glad I just have an antenna.  I will have to get a digital converter at some point in time, but I have not seen any advertised yet.  I hope everyone has a good day.

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana

[cnw1995]

Ain't that the truth, Mike. Glad you're back and safe, Roy. That is indeed a fun movie! You merit another cruise, Chief, the way you sell those chargers. Hope Brutus is enjoying his night out.  The bride has the flu, so I have  been taking care of things here today. Just browsing a few sites like forgotten-ny and forgottenchicago and ebay (looking for more 2-wheel cars for Percy to pull before turning in. I am working as video director at our church services tomorrow so that means an early call time and a busy 1/2 day. Ciao!

[RockIsland52]

Buckeye, put on your tree spikes and take the dish up the tree.  [no joke, I've seen one in a tree] 

Buckeye there's no sense climbing that tree yourself or paying someone for installation.   If it's tall enough, a cellular company will pay you rent for the rights to that high, unobstructed location.  You can have them mount the dish for you while they're up there.

Jack

[ChiefEagles]

Morning all.  Pretty day and already shirt sleeve weather.  Getting ready for breakfast and then store.  Have a great day.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

 

Same thing for my daughter and son-in-law in Worthington.  Too many trees.

This has always dumbfounded me... my house sits on 1.3 wooded acres with 60 - 80 ft oak trees within 30 feet of the house. Unless you live in a single level rancher, you should be able to mount the dish on your roof and gain signal.

take a look at what I'm referring to: http://www.distorteduniverse.com/House/Tour/gallery.asp you can see the dish in picture 7, the one on the back of the house is no longer there (it was an old Dish Network dish).

There is always a fix for a tall tree... Skil makes some nice ones.

Brent, Yes we could have mounted it on the roof, a roof that is less than two years old and no guarantee from the satellite company that the roof will not leak after the installation.   Wind loading is the main consideration and then an ice-wind combination.  This type of loading if transmitted to the roof trusses would be satisfactory, but they attach the satellite directly to the plywood or press-board beneath the shingles.   The preferred method of installation is a ground mount post due to the weight and size of the HD Dish.  

The building codes in our community are also restrictive as to the placement.  For example, we can not attach them to the chimneys per codes. 

A cell tower...I wonder what my neighbors would think about that. Again, zoning laws prohibit that type of construction in residential areas.  Our community has standards, unlike Roseyville where a cell tower disguised as an outhouse is acceptable.

Roy...Glad to see you back and how much did the Chief loan you to make you solvent?

[fifedog]

Mornin' boys.  Sunny & 32 here in the Mid-Atlantic region.  Laundry and NASCAR on to-do list today.

[johnandjulie13]

Good Morning:

For some reason I got into the dog house with my wife last night.  Have you ever done something that angers the Mrs. but she won't tell you what it was?  That is what I am dealing with this morning.

If marital bliss gets restored today, I hope to finish up my minor weather/kit-bash of a car dealership for my layout.  If I get it done, I will post it in Sunday Photo Fun.

Regards,

John

[fifedog]

cnw1995 - grab a cup of coffee, then head over to the Model Railroader board and check out Jon Grant's 1930's - Chicago thread, right now.  Great stuff!

john&julie - No, I never find myself in the doghouse....but shopping seems to smooze things over...

[Blueberryhill RR]

Good Morning from Blueberryhill....

It is a sunny 30 degrees. Going up to a sunny 46, today. Is Spring in the air?

Today, I am taking it easy. Watching Nascar race and running trains. Not too bad for a schedule. Wife will probably have things for me to do. Darn.

Had trouble getting on Forum this morning. I guess a lot of people had the same problem. OK, now.

Dining car has been here and left for " points west ". Breakfast was as usual.

Y'all have a great Sunday.

Chuck

[Brutus]

Luckily for me, our dog has the run of the house!  Gonna work in the basement today, maybe start planning my next layout - current one is boring, just an oval.  TTFN

[edw]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

Buckeye, which company were you using? From what I understand, the satellites that the DISH Network (EchoStar) uses require the antenna to be aimed about 10 degrees lower than those used by DirecTV.

[Anonymous]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

Buckeye, which company were you using? From what I understand, the satellites that the DISH Network (EchoStar) uses require the antenna to be aimed about 10 degrees lower than those used by DirecTV.

A lower asmuth would require the trees to be lower, just an FYI.

[Anonymous]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

 

Same thing for my daughter and son-in-law in Worthington.  Too many trees.

This has always dumbfounded me... my house sits on 1.3 wooded acres with 60 - 80 ft oak trees within 30 feet of the house. Unless you live in a single level rancher, you should be able to mount the dish on your roof and gain signal.

take a look at what I'm referring to: http://www.distorteduniverse.com/House/Tour/gallery.asp you can see the dish in picture 7, the one on the back of the house is no longer there (it was an old Dish Network dish).

There is always a fix for a tall tree... Skil makes some nice ones.

Brent, Yes we could have mounted it on the roof, a roof that is less than two years old and no guarantee from the satellite company that the roof will not leak after the installation.   Wind loading is the main consideration and then an ice-wind combination.  This type of loading if transmitted to the roof trusses would be satisfactory, but they attach the satellite directly to the plywood or press-board beneath the shingles.   The preferred method of installation is a ground mount post due to the weight and size of the HD Dish.  

The building codes in our community are also restrictive as to the placement.  For example, we can not attach them to the chimneys per codes. 

A cell tower...I wonder what my neighbors would think about that. Again, zoning laws prohibit that type of construction in residential areas.  Our community has standards, unlike Roseyville where a cell tower disguised as an outhouse is acceptable.

Roy...Glad to see you back and how much did the Chief loan you to make you solvent?

Buckeye,
I hear you on that. When you installation guy was here and he told me the dish was going on the roof, I asked him to install a double thick 3/4" OSB spacer between the rafters where the mounts would attach to the roof, that way he would have 2.25" of OSB to attach the legs to. He also used lag screws to attach the dish to the roof and put a coating of silicone under the shingle and then a dab of tar over the top of the screw and around the leg base.

So far, no leaks...

I have found the techs to be willing to work with you (you have to have the supplies there and ready for them to use, or have them installed). Our tech was a little Hispanic guy, a couple sodas, a hot dog, and some chips and he did just about anything! He also dropped an extra jack into a wall for us (charged for that) and I gave him a $30 tip because he was here for 6 hours.

[edw]

Too many trees, no dish for Buckeye.

Buckeye, which company were you using? From what I understand, the satellites that the DISH Network (EchoStar) uses require the antenna to be aimed about 10 degrees lower than those used by DirecTV.

A lower asmuth would require the trees to be lower, just an FYI.

I'm sure everyone got my point, Brent. (Well, almost everyone). 

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Afternoon all

I was off today and helped with the 0830 and 1030 Masses and been busy since then.  Our youngest daughter was in from Cincy, and our oldest came up with the Grandkids.  We had a blast.  Ran trains played board games and read books.

The youngest daughter got some of the neatest books for the Kids thay you all may be intrested in.  One was called TRAINS by Robert Crowther from Candlewick Press.  You opened the book and the pages folded out to 3-D displays of various train related info.  Longest train, fastest train, first train, type of info.  Really neat.  The 3-D pages also had moving parts.  I would highly reccomend it.  The other book was titled The John Bull, A Brittish Locomotive Comes to America, by David Weitzman, from Farrar Straus Giroux in NY.  It is written for kids but there is a wealth on great info on the John Bull.  Cutaway drawings, how the parts were made, how it works, written in a very readable format.  I thought of you Jim, hearing of you pre-ordering your John Bull, you may be interested in the book.  Very worthwhile.

Very interesting talk about dishes and the like.  Our cable provider is getting more and more expensive and the internet connection is getting more unreliable.  We don't watch that much TV to a lot of channels is not a big deal.  History channel, Weather Channel, Travel Channel and EWTN.

I feel your pain.  The uncertanity of not knowing what you did to get in trouble is a pain.  It seems that the longer it goes before you find out, the worse it gets because "you should of known .  .  ."  Good luck, I will keep you in my prayers for reconcilation!

May God bless

Jim

[cheapclassics]

Good evening all,

IIABSDISEI with temps in the 60s.  We went to church this morning, stopped in at my dad's, did weights at the YMCA, washed the minivan, and got gas for it and the rental.  Watched a little NASCAR, but more commercials and cautions than actual racing.  I had waffles and bacon on the dining car again for breakfast.  May run the 10E for a little bit.  I hope everyone has a good day. 

Keep on training,

Mike C. from Indiana