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"Our" Place reborn! 3rd Year of adults 'n REAL Classic Trains in a special environment! Locked

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"Our" Place reborn! 3rd Year of adults 'n REAL Classic Trains in a special environment!
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, April 26, 2007 7:54 AM

Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/

G'day Gents!

Thursday it is and there's one more day in the work week <for many> before it's kick back time! Speaking of relaxing, why not do that with a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board - a hot mug of coffee - and some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery Question [?] Thumbs Up [tup]

A PLEA: Hey guys, when you decide to EDIT a Post, be sure to avoid doing so when they are hours ‘n days ‘n weeks OLD. Reason? It skews the "most current Post" shown when one logs on to this Forum. Best way to do it is to "do" your EDIT, then Post something NEW - that way the NEW Post will show up as it should, not the OLD one.

Another way to handle it is NOT to EDIT OLD stuff. Just Post a NEW one . . .

Tomorrow is Amtrak to KCity with Pete. So it's up to whoever comes in to help keep the place functioning. I doubt that I'll have time for an early morning greeting, as the train departs at daybreak . . .

 

Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):

 

James at 7:40 AM yesterday: Received and responded to your Email - thanx!

Glad to see you keeping the OPTIONAL Wednesday Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! alive ‘n well. Models looooookin' good! "Short noses" are better lookin', fer sure! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Appreciate the early AM visit here ‘n over on "my other Thread"! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Pete at 5:05 PM yesterday: Another ‘save' for the Wolfman! No Posts from anyone but Moi since early this AM. Told you guys a few weeks ago that we'd be heading back to the doldrums, and they are HERE! Thumbs Down [tdn]

Really like that Irish loco - looks like a "heavy" model. Those are all yours, eh Question [?] The track system really resembles the S-gauge stuff I use on the S-Capades ceiling suspended system. Who makes it and what's the gauge?? Again, nice! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Link was really sloooooooooow for me in loading. I'll try again a bit later - thanx, tho!

We have been spared the severity aspect of the storms passing through, Just some wind and heavy rains, which surely could be worse. Hope all's well out your way . . .

Next time we have some time in Kirkwood, I gotta take you over to the local train store. Actually when you come in for the Rendezvous would be the time - then of course off to the TrainWreck! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Anyway, you've been to the hobby store, but it's worth a re-visit. Some really fine looking "used" stuff in all gauges, along with the new ‘n modern. Prices would gag a healthy maggot! (Go ahead, Rob, you've seen ‘n used it before!) <grin>

Email sent your way . . . And it was great speaking with you last night!! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

James at 9:28 PM yesterday: Back with the continuation of your "catch up." And nicely done at that . . . You're setting a fine example ‘round here for ensuring that the efforts put forth by the guys hasn't disappeared into the ether! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

The Pages on our Thread are but a "whisp" of what used to be, BUT far more manageable - makes the "catch up" much more pleasant than perhaps the chore it may have been to some. Thanx! Thumbs Up [tup]

And THANX in advance for offering to help out on Friday . . .

 

Rob at 10:32 PM ‘n 11:00 PM yesterday: Seems a bit like olde tymes with the return of trolleyMAN to the late night slot. Thumbs Up [tup] Fine inclusive Post!

Ives was around when I was a kid. The first electric trains I was exposed to were Ives, but they weren't mine. I never did find out whose trains "magically" appeared at Christmas back then - but they were there and I was mesmerized watching go ‘round ‘n ‘round. Then one year - gone, never to return. Shortly after that, I "found" a Lionel freight train set under the tree and the love affair with electric trains continued to this day . . . And yes - the expense of those things today would indeed GAG a healthy maggot (not kill -geesh!) Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

The talk of those Algoma Central domes rekindles the thought to SOMEDAY making that trip to meet up with you and Heather. Would really be something great to do. Amazing how those cars have held up, but of course it takes dedicated people, craftsmanship and MONEY to keep ‘em running, eh Question [?] Thumbs Up [tup]

The ENCORE! of your Post War Passenger Service on the C&O makes for good reading. Many may not realize it, but that was the beginning of the "last gasp" for U.S. passenger railroads. They poured lotsamoney into purchasing, refurbishing and building cars. But he die was cast as the nation turned toward the super highways and the automobile and mega airports and air travel. Wasn't all that long and we wound up with Amtrak, where you have VIA Rail. Such are the turns of events, eh Question [?] <sad>

 

Eric at 12:40 AM today: The Night Owl Tandem of our Resident Desert Swede ‘n Count Robulla surely does wonders in keeping this place operating long after most have zonked out! Zzz [zzz]

Must admit that the Class X40 shown in your Pix does look rather sterile and boxy. But no doubt "functional," as some of those more interested in that aspect would say. I'm for style, charm, comfort and longevity. Yeah!! [yeah]

Always enjoy your inclusive Posts . . . thanx! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Email sent your way . . .

 

Mike at 6:24

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:24 AM

Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house

Anybody up for clicking?  Okay don't.

C&O 2-6-6-6 Allegheny

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1549.jpeg

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/c/CO1604.JPG.71720.jpg

Endion Depot Duluth

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/mn/mn0000/mn0092/photos/092019pv.jpg

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/interstate50/images/june/duluth-depot-web.jpg

Pan American & George Washington at Louisville 1968

http://67.15.20.45/images/u/unionstat.jpg.65974.jpg

Pan American in Louisville train shed 1968

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/l/ln99-1.jpg.33964.jpg

Amtrak at Louisville 2003

http://67.15.20.45/images/9/9201.jpg.65941.jpg

CSX at Nashville 2006

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/2/251932012_0cd6c2f3ab_b_d.jpg.72395.jpg

Nashville Union Station 1954

http://www.koyote.com/users/whsulliv/54nst06.jpg

Nashville Union Station 1970

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/tn/tn0000/tn0039/photos/152740pv.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/tn/tn0000/tn0039/photos/152755pv.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/tn/tn0000/tn0039/photos/152756pv.jpg

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/tn/tn0000/tn0039/photos/152750pv.jpg

A painting of inside Nashville train shed

http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib014/ALCO_J3.GIF

Nashville 1864

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/02100/02111v.jpg

Boxcars and train tracks in Tennessee 1864

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/02100/02100v.jpg

Kansas City Union Station

http://spencer.lib.ku.edu/exhibits/25th/kc12b.jpg

http://www.kclibrary.org/lhimgs/kcpl/regular/10006076_reg.jpg

http://www.kclibrary.org/lhimgs/kcpl/regular/10006082_reg.jpg

http://www.kclibrary.org/lhimgs/kcpl/regular/10006085_reg.jpg

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/012_12_2.jpg.86694.jpg

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/k/KCS88southNo1_SouthernBelle_KansasCityMO_7-29-68.jpg.91154.jpg

Have a great ride Tom and Pete. Do you have plans to visit the World War I museum?

http://www.npr.org/templates/common/image_enlargement.php?imageResId=6573519

http://www.nww1.org

Mike

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Posted by EricX2000 on Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:40 AM

Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!

Leon, I would like an early breakfast! Continental breakfast! Coffee and a danish, how about that? Sounds very continental!

Tom –  Thanks for the help with the tomato slices!Thumbs Up [tup] I always check my sandwiches before I start eating them, so I can remove those slices if they are there.Smile [:)]

All I know about the loco in my pix is that it has a gas engine. I don’t remember if it was gas-electric or gas-hydraulic. It was on display outside an old train station building, that obviously had been moved from its original location. I “found” this place in eastern Iowa. I’ll check my notes from that trip to see what more I can find out. Smile [:)]

Ives Manufacturing Company!Thumbs Up [tup] I can’t recall I ever heard about Ives before. Interesting history with a lot of fights with Lionel! They even manufactured toy streetcars!

James –  Some real nice model pictures!!Thumbs Up [tup] I agree, those GE locos are very good looking!

I know, but I never felt I had time to go to Baltimore (from Washington) on any of those few days off I had at that time.Grumpy [|(] But one day I will make it there!Smile [:)]

The picture with three trains on the same track was taken along the Northeast Corridor, the northern section (New York City - Boston). You will find a lot of info on this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Corridor

Pete –  Thanks for the info on the EM1 and EM2!Thumbs Up [tup] I loved that graphic on the bottom! Pretty neat with all trains running and the signals shifting between different aspects!Wow!! [wow]
As I said to Tom, the loco from Iowa had a gas engine. I’ll try to find out more info about it.

Nice model of that Irish locomotive! Yeah!! [yeah]

Rob –  I don’t think I would like to train any future streetcar operators in Tucson. As a streetcar conductor I was allowed to operate the streetcar when not in service, but that was many, many years ago. I’ll stick to the trains! Anyway, yesterday (Tuesday) they ran the first test run with a new streetcar (light rail) on the streets of Phoenix!Yeah!! [yeah] I have to go down there this wekend and have a look, maybe take some pictures. Smile [:)]

Thanks for the Postwar Passenger Service on the C&O!Thumbs Up [tup] So C&O tried a steam turbine locomotive?Question [?] Interesting! I need to do some research!

I promised a picture of the Class X40 train set, but the one I had in mind is way too dark. Here is a picture showing a bit of the first car of the set. It is an ugly looking train, the front is a disaster in my eyes.

Class X40. This is bad enough.

 

Eric 

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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:00 PM

Well Leon looks like my mug has a hole in it agaain so I think i will need a refill sir Smile [:)]

So I figured that I would keep some C&O info rolling along, with a bit of passenger train that I've dug out of the archieves.

POSTWAR PASSENGER SERVICE ON THE C&O

  After the second world war, one of the biggest changes the C&O first faced was the merger in 1947 of it's longtiome affiliate the Pere Marquette.This final merger with the PM brought in another 2000 miles of trackage some of whick was in awfull shape after the depression and the beating it took during the war. Also by the late 40's the C&O was so deeply associated with Chessie the cat which was a depression era creation that many people began to refer to the C&O as the "Chessie".So railway management felt that their new post war streamliners should be called The Chessie's and they would be put on the daylight scheduales between Washington and Cincinnati with Newport News and Louisville sections.In mid 1948 they were to maintain a 12 hour scheduale,two hours faster than The George Washington !A new type of locomotive was being developed to pull these trains ( the monster steam turbine -electrics ) and new larger coaling stations were being ste up to feed these behemouths.A huge order for new Budd equipmnet was placed to run behind them.

     One Chessie consist , turbine locmotive et al was placed on display at all the principal towns along the proposed route.Amoung the satte of the art features that thes streamlinners were the dome sleeper ( with rooms sold as day cabins ) family coaches, lounge cars with aquariums, a two-unit dinner set and a dome observation bringing up the markers.

     Unfiortunatly 1948 passed with out the inaguration of this service, and the massed increase in spending on passenger service was met with declinning passebger revenues.Further te experimental turbine -electrics proved unworkable and expensive to operate, and it was quickly becomming aparent to C&O management that diesels were much more efficient over the long haul than the steamers of the day.To complicate thses problems the chairmen of the C&O Mr Young was busy fighting for his various merger plans and didn't spend much time defending the Chessie trains which wre quickly becomming expensive white elephants.So the trains themselves were never officially launched.The  equipment was quickly dispersed to the C&O's other trains and the steam turbines were scrapped.Following up in 1949 the C&O began to order it's first diesel locomotives.By 1949 a crisis in the coal fields was impacting the coal haulage rates and revenues for the C&O putting the writing on the wall for the remaining steamers on the roster. So that by 1956 most of the C&O's steam engines were gone from the railways roster.In the late 50's the expanding coal export business reveibed the C&O's economic outlook and the process of te long sought after B&O / C&O merger was moved to the front burner.The restv as they say was history for one of the more colourfull eastern coal hauling roads.

Rob 

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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:32 PM

Evening gents. Leon looks like you have a new pair of jump boots on whats the occation Question [?] Oh I see the health department really said that Question [?] Shock [:O] I'll just have a Keith's and some of the soft pretzels with mustard thanks Thumbs Up [tup]

 Bit o a sloooow one today , I few gaps a tad bigger than we would like to see,nice to see James jump in with both proverbial feet and keep things moving Thumbs Up [tup]

Tom-Nice info on Ives, I see the odd piece of it show up at hobby shops in Ontario from time to time,you can imagine the prices [:0] definatly would kill a healthy maggot.Looking at Erics photo , that little locomotive looks like a little Plymouth or Whitcomb industrial job.The Babcock and Wilcox boiler plant just up the hwy in Cambridge has one that looks just like it. Interesting watching it move those massive 4 truck flatcars out of the assembly building with a huge boiler !Hopefully friday won't be too slow. i'll do my part, unfortunatly I have the swing shift 11-6 which messes up the day a tad for me,but I'll do what I can. We can always get H&H to dance for everyone ( yes Leon with their pink leather and feather get ups ) sheesh methinks he's been spending too much time with our Teutonic Princesses Shock [:O]

Pete-Your welcome those photo's really were top notch Thumbs Up [tup]Nice to see that Irish loco set up again,any plans for a permanent mounting of it yet Question [?]Sounds like the British cities pulled out of tram use about as abruptly as the towns and cities over here.Short sitedness to be sure,espeacially with the cost of the new infrastructure that has to go up to start up lite-rail from scratch when they decide it's a good idea to have them running in their towns again.Banged Head [banghead]

Eric-I'm glad to hear that the homeless guy was well looked after.Incredible that he has attacked over some lousey beer though Thumbs Down [tdn] sounds like you got the total rundown on that new streetcar system. Perhaps another new job for you once you retire.They will need someone to train their new operators.Whistling [:-^]

JAMES-You had a busy day here today. Good show, mostl;y caught up and you kept us going on what has been a bit of a slow day. Great layout shots again. I'm with you I like the look of the old U-boats. But I don't own any as GE never sold any to the Canadian railways.You are right the Algoma's dome cars were not theirs originally. They were bought second hand for use on the Agawa canyon tour trains after the WC bought the ACR. They are ex Northern pacific Domes and are still used on the Canyon trains today. I had the fortune of riding on them in 2002 Thumbs Up [tup]That bridge likely would have made an interesting tour route or just a good regular passsenger connection. The barge operation only lasted a few years itself as they lost the barge to a sand bar shortly after the operation started up.

Rob

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Posted by CMSTPP on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:28 PM

Cool [8D]G-day Captain [4:-)] Tom and all present!

Leon- Good to see you. Could I get a coffee along with one of you wonderful turkey sandwiches. Thanks!Thumbs Up [tup]

Well, things are a little cooler here in the North but still warm to keep that wet, cold, "stuff' away.Smile [:)]

Anyway, Tom, I got your email and I understand, Thanks

Back to makeup day 3 and I'm on page 49.

Tom- Didn't have a clue on the B&O heavy weights, well I guess I will keep going and see if the guys knew anything about them. Thanks for the effort though. Ah, yes Marklin and there trains. I have owned a couple in the past, in fact we sold a Marklin set back in October at a train show. They certainly the named classic toy train. Some of there stuff is pretty cool. I was also surprised how much you can get for some of the models, like the tin made cars and locomotives. I noticed that you said, "The difference in USA and Europe gauges" I've learned that British O scale is 1/43 and USA O scale is 1/48. But they almost have no difference between the two. I see a lot of that in cars and trucks sold in catalogs, almost all are in British O scale.

Girls=Penthouse........I guess that wouldn't be bad... Did I say Penthouse.. ah.. I think if you look at it really hard I said "regular" house... Laugh [(-D]

Its to bad to think that the freight trains would probably push the passenger trains right off there schedules. I really enjoy watching passenger trains, especially with steam on the point. It's to bad that the Soo line had to discontinue that Winnepegger. Thumbs Down [tdn]

Ives Manufacturing company. Now there is another company that built there toy trains out of tin. Of course that was one of the only things they had to build them with. Plastic really wasn't part of that production yet. They had some pretty neat inventions. I liked the idea of using gunpowder in toy cannons. Mischief [:-,]

Eric- Well the snow has certainly melted by now and I would like it to stay that way too. I don't need anymore wet, cold, "stuff."Dead [xx(]

I've heard that the B&O railroad museum is a good one to visit.Thumbs Up [tup] And of course you've ruined it all by not going....What am I going to do!Big Smile [:D] That could have added a few more stories to the bar's archives of stories.Thumbs Up [tup]

I have also been looking at some of your pictures. My favorite so far is the one pic with the three trains all one track.Thumbs Up [tup] Now that seems like a busy mainline. Triple track mainline and a service track off to the left. What trains do these tracks serve besides passenger serviceQuestion [?]

Rob- I have to admit that 4:51 in the morning is earlier than I would get up. Obviously a scary dream got to you and you needed to drown it out by looking at some trains, right??? Besides the meeting you had mentioned.Whistling [:-^] Interesting piece on the Canada southern railway.Thumbs Up [tup] It sounds like the rail line would have been perfect for a tourist railroad if that large bridge going over the St. Clair River had been put in. But I guess the barge did what they needed since that never came to be with the bridge.

Lars- Some good looking book covers from our manager.Thumbs Up [tup] That B&O photo archive book looked really good. I have the one on the stream liners photo archives. Some really nice pictures of the C&NW's 400 trains. That was quite a train. Plus a few on the Milwaukee road of course.Approve [^]

And also a round of steam pics from the B&O archive. Some really nice pictures of the steamers. Some nice steamers but my favorite is the little squirt of an engine, the 2-6-0, #2444. Thanks for sharing.

Pete- Well, I'm surprised to know that the little Coppernob is an actual train. Just by the look of it in the picture you would swear that it would be a model. And if that's considered first class... Yike!! I'd hate to be in third class in a rain storm. Of course the engineer wouldn't enjoy it much at all either. Shock [:O]Wow!! [wow]

I'd hate to be up in that signal box with a steam locomotive passing under it.Black Eye [B)] That would a bit nuts. Better tell everyone to bring a fan or two!Thumbs Up [tup] Thanks for the URL to the woodhead site. I am really familiar with the little Bo-Bos they run. For they are on train tycoon 2. (a wonderful little game)Approve [^] But there was an interesting steam locomotive there. A 2-8-0-0-8-2. WOW, what a monster!Shock [:O] I haven't seen anything like it before. Thanks for sharing. Also, nice picture of the Irish model locomotive. Fits perfectly under the model trains. Do you own that little steamerQuestion [?]

CM3- Thanks for answering the question about the B&O cars. Well, I guess if you have the money and wanted to do something like that, be my guest. Thanks againThumbs Up [tup]

Budkarr- Haven't seen you for quite sometime. Glad you could post a few pictures and some nice pictures at that. The B&O history timeline was also interesting, thanks for sharing!Thumbs Up [tup]

Happy railroading

James

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:05 PM

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please RUTH and round for the houseThumbs Up [tup].

First I must comment on another great Theme day this on the C&OThumbs Up [tup]. With the history from TOM, the financial details and great links from MIKE, JAMES with those great photos of the Cheesie diesels from the 1970s CM3with the usual wonderful atmospheric and personal experience of passenger travel on the C&O including a ride on the last Pan American.Wow!! [wow] Then LARS with the great book covers, loved the cover with Chessie on. ROB with the merger between the B&O and the C&O. AThumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup] salute to you all gentlemen

ERIC I believe 26020 is the only class 76 or EM1 loco preserved. I have found a great web site on the EM1s and the EM2s; there are some pics of the larger EM2s and their history in Holland. I hope the graphic on the bottom of the screen works. 

 http://www.thewoodheadsite.org.uk/

It was interesting in the link that some of the early locos of class 76 were built with surplus Armour plateShock [:O] and resisted attempts to fit multiple working equipment to them.Oops [oops]

Great photo of the old 0-6-0 locomotiveThumbs Up [tup]. Thanks for the details on her last place of work and it is good the loco is preserved.Approve [^]

Interesting loco in today's photoYeah!! [yeah]

CM3 Glad you liked the photos Thumbs Up [tup]and thanks for the info on the gold GM 50 Looking forward to your details on Mike's pics.

LARS You should be in Florida, if you get to read this before you get back home I hope you have very successful house hunting. Have a safe trip.Thumbs Up [tup]

DL Look forward to hearing from you after your couple of days away.Yeah!! [yeah]

ROB Thanks for the kind words on the photos Thumbs Up [tup].It is the same in England with today's light rail systems put in the last few years. Most of the cities they have been installed in had really good tramways that lasted into the late 1950s or very early 1960s.

It seems the computer demons take it in turn to give the Our Place regulars problems.Sigh [sigh]

Perhaps one day we might win the lottery and open up that model shop and barApprove [^]Thumbs Up [tup].

I truly wish you the best in dealing with that museum.

JAMES Great to see you in.Thumbs Up [tup] We are taking advantage of the temporary timings, due to engineering work on the line, to travel on Amtrak to visit Kansas City, as with these times it should be over 4 hours to visit the cityApprove [^].

 Coppernob is a full size loco as well as the coach, in the very early days of the railways in Britain the early cars were stagecoach bodies put on rail wheels these were for 1st class passengers, the 3rd class had an open truckShock [:O]. These improved over the years.

The signal box in the pic is not too common on BR. I remember one of a similar design was at a city called Chester which is near the Wales border, anyway I was on a steam hauled special and the loco was stopped at by the signalbox, well the safety valves lifted and the steam was going up through the floor of the signalbox and was filling it with steam, it must have been like a sauna in there.Shock [:O]Big Smile [:D]

Thanks for some Chessie diesel photos and those great Milwaukee models.Approve [^]Thumbs Up [tup]

In the link I put in my reply to Eric there are some photos of some British electric locos.      

TOM Great to talk to you yesterdayThumbs Up [tup]. Tried what you suggested on the puter, seems better, but I had better not say too much, as soon as I say it is working well it plays upSigh [sigh]. I think it is trying to show who has the ‘artificial' intelligence between it and me.Smile [:)]

Pretty heavy storms last afternoon and evening with more on the way they say, hope they bypass you.Yeah!! [yeah]

Yes Tom experience is something that you cannot buy.

Many thanks for the Ives story encoreThumbs Up [tup]. I don't think it could get away with a toy cannon that used real gunpowder todayShock [:O], and I guess their model boat range did not sell too well as they had a tendency to sinkOops [oops], as the post said perhaps that is why there isn't many of their boats around now.Smile [:)] I thought, from the photos, they made some fairly good model railway items; I like the suburban trolley and the dark green electric loco. Approve [^]Thumbs Up [tup]

   

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"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:07 PM

OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!

Initially Posted on Page 327 of the original Thread on May 10th, 2006



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. 



 

Ives Manufacturing Company

 

Ives Toy trains (from: Ives Train Society)


The Ives Manufacturing Company, an American toy manufacturer from 1868 to 1932, was the largest manufacturer of toy trains in the United States from 1910 until 1924, when Lionel Corporation overtook it in sales.

Ives was founded in Plymouth, Connecticut by Edward Ives, a descendant of Plymouth colony governor William Bradford. The company initially produced paper dolls whose limbs moved in response to hot air, but soon began producing a wide range of toys, including a toy cannon that shot using real gunpowder and clockwork powered dolls and animals that could move. The clockwork toys were designed by Jerome Secor, Nathan Warner, and Arthur Hotchkiss and by the 1880s, Ives was a leading producer of these toys.

Its emphasis shifted to trains as its designs were copied by other toymakers who were willing to sell them more cheaply. Ives' trains were made of tin or cast iron and initially powered by clockwork, but like later electric trains, some models could whistle and smoke. On December 22, 1900, a fire destroyed Ives' main factory and its tooling, prompting a re-design for 1901 that resulted in Ives' first toy train that ran on track. In the end the fire benefited the company, as the insurance money permitted it to build a modern factory with state-of-the-art tooling.

Although several companies were selling electric trains at the time, Ives opted to remain with clockwork, partly because many U.S. homes still lacked electricity.

Initially, Ives' greatest competition came from German imports, and not from domestic manufacturers. Ives' response was with marketing, which it directed at its target audience, the twelve-year-old boy. Its campaigns addressed boys as business partners, telling them that the success of Ives' fictional railroad, Ives Railway Lines, depended on their shrewd management. This worked, building brand loyalty.

Ives released its first electric trains in 1910, partially in response to companies such as American Flyer undercutting its prices on clockwork trains. Ives initially produced electric trains in O gauge and 1 gauge.

Ives' train sales continued to decline in the face of increasing competition and Lionel's greater momentum, the latter having released its first electric trains nearly a decade earlier. Meanwhile, construction toys were gaining in popularity, so in an effort to re-diversify, Ives released a Meccano and Erector Set-like construction toy in 1913. Although it offered parts its competition did not, the set was not very successful and Ives withdrew it from the market in 1917.

World War I had mixed effects on the company. On one hand, it eliminated imports from Germany, increasing Ives' share of the market. However, Ives' geographic location made it difficult to bring in the materials it needed to make trains, and also made shipping finished products difficult. Lionel and American Flyer, being headquartered in New York City and Chicago, respectively, did not face that challenge. Additionally, Ives' isolation made it impossible for Ives to gain lucrative wartime government manufacturing contracts. As a result, Ives did not benefit financially from the war.

After the war, Ives, along with competitors Lionel and American Flyer, lobbied successfully for protective tariffs to promote the fledgling American toy train industry. As a result, there was very little foreign competition after World War I, especially at the high end of the market where Ives had positioned itself.

The seasonal nature of train sales continued to cause concern for Ives, and Harry Ives, Edward Ives' son and successor, sought one last time to diversify by selling toy boats, which he hoped would support the company through strong summer sales. The first boats, released in 1917, were powered by a clockwork engine from an Ives O gauge locomotive. However, the designs were unrealistic looking, lacking the costly detail that was the highlight of competing German designs, and had a tendency to sink easily. Additionally, since Ives did not use a primer when painting the boats, the paint flaked off easily. Ives had difficulty adapting its methods for designing and building trains to work for boats. Despite the problems, Ives continued producing the boats until 1928. Few Ives boats exist today, but it is unclear whether this was due to lack of popularity or their propensity to sink.

Harry Ives had a heated professional relationship with Lionel founder Joshua Lionel Cowen, in which they traded lawsuits and, starting in 1915, Lionel criticized the quality of Ives' offerings in print advertisements, calling its cars flimsy and showing a cast-iron Ives locomotive shattering into 15 pieces when dropped from a table, while a Lionel locomotive dropped from the same height would survive with only dents. Other ads criticizing Ives' quality appeared, but they always compared Ives' cheapest products with Lionel's priciest offerings.

Although Ives could rightly claim that its lithographed offerings were more realistic than Lionel's simple enameled two-color cars, Lionel, taking a cue from Ives, targeted advertising straight at children, claiming its cars were the most realistic and that its paint jobs were more durable.

Ives' subdued responses did little to counter Lionel's claims, only calling its competitors (including Lionel) imitators whose technology was "12 years behind." It was no match for Lionel's bold and brash ads. Additionally, Lionel's trains generally were priced lower, or, in instances where their price was comparable to Ives, they were larger, making them appear to be a better value for the money. As a result, Lionel continually gained ground on Ives, finally overtaking them in sales in 1924.

In 1921, Ives abruptly discontinued its slow-selling 1 gauge trains in favor of wide gauge trains, a standard Lionel had introduced several years earlier and called "Standard Gauge". Ives did not call its trains Standard Gauge, as Lionel had trademarked the name. While Ives was inconsistent in what it called its larger-gauge trains, it most frequently called it wide gauge. Numerous other companies also entered the wide gauge market in the early 1920s, increasing consumer interest in the size and forcing the manufacturers to innovate in order to survive.

In 1924, Ives introduced a locomotive engine that would change directions when its power flow was interrupted, a feature that Lionel would not offer for another two years. Even after Lionel's introduction, Ives' offering was unique in that it offered a neutral position as well as forward and reverse, and the engine's headlight continued to operate even when the train was in neutral. Ives charged a premium for this feature, which it dubbed the "e-unit&

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by CMSTPP on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:40 AM

G-day Captain [4:-)] Tom and all present!

Ruth- Good to see you on this warm morning. I think I will have a OJ and a pastry! ThanksThumbs Up [tup]

I think it's time for some model pics since it is optional toy 'n model train day! I will post these pics and then have acknowledgements later today.Thumbs Up [tup]

Here is a good pic of three locomotives side by side. The first locomotive is a U28B. The second loco is a GP38-2 and the third is a U30C. The train right off front is a freight getting a crew change and the other two are local freights and yard jobs.

Here the freight train gets under way after the crew change. The lead unit is a U28B, followed by a U25B, and a U23B. All GE made locos. I like how these locomotives look with that small nose.

Enjoy!

Happy railroadingLaugh [(-D]

James

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
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"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:22 AM

Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/

Wednesday's Witticism

Marry a woman with brains enough for two and you'll come out even. 

 

G'day Gents!

Mid-week at our favorite tavern in mid-continent USA! Rain, rain and more on he way. Stormy times, but the things that have popped up from the ground are in dire need of the water! Thumbs Up [tup]

Coffee's fresh ‘n hot, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery have just arrived and the <light> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts are ready for ordering!

The Theme for the Day next Tuesday is Canadian Railways! Yeah!! [yeah]

Today is OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!

Friday is gonna be a tough one for me - so any help out there to "cover" the morning - noon and afternoon "slots"??? Let's not have "gaps" of 4 to 6 hours if we can avoid them! Thanx. Thumbs Up [tup]

Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):

James at 7:25 PM ‘n 7:35 PM yesterday: Good to see you back with us and contributing in the inclusive manner that makes this place separate and apart from the mainstream Threads. Thumbs Up [tup]

Pix rounded out the Theme quite well! Thumbs Up [tup]

Be careful what you "wish" for - it just MAY come true! <grin> Penthouse Suite ‘n James, hmmmmmmm. I think if that "word" gets out, you'll have more "interest" than perhaps needed from the gals who work ‘round here on Thursdays, Fridays ‘n Saturdays! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Many thanx for the offer to help out ‘round the Bar by the Ballast on Friday! Anything you can do to keep us up ‘n runnin' will be most appreciated! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

There are several former passenger rail routes that have been discontinued in our country that linked us with Canada. Not being able to get up to Winnipeg is just one. And the three that survive are mostly unreliable in terms of on-time-performance, utilization and amenities. Back when the Soo Line ran those fine trains, my guess is they didn't have the problems of today with the freight haulers pushing the passenger trains off schedule and into sidings. <groan>

Enjoyed this, perhaps one of your finest, contributions! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Eric at 1:15 AM today: Email received - thanx! Thumbs Up [tup]

Another well put together inclusive ‘n informative Post.

I've instructed our "kitchen staff" to ensure that absolutely NO tomato slices - EVER - appear on sandwiches you order. Surely wouldn't want you eating ‘em twice! <ugh>

A sad but rather common reality is homeless people winding up as victims to other homeless people for the little they may possess - especially wine, liquor ‘n beer. Sad.

The information contained on these Pages and those on the original site is worth it's weight in high denomination currency. C&O was well covered and surely worthwhile saving; I agree. Thumbs Up [tup]

That Pix is interesting - WHAT kindaloco is THAT???

 

Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.

Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle! Thumbs Up [tup]

Tom Captain [4:-)] Pirate [oX)]

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by EricX2000 on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:15 AM

Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!

No, Leon, just a cup of coffe! I had a good lunch today, yhanks to Lars!

Tom –  I felt sorry for that homeless guy last night. He got stabbed for a 24-pack of beer!

About the picture, it is probably the angle that makes it look kind of strange about the tender. That locomotive was used at a papermill for switching cars. I don’t remember when it was retired, but I think it was in the early 70,s. The locomotive is preserved.

No tomato slices! It is kind of strange, I can eat ketchup (and I do), I can eat tomatoes in a sallad (and I do) but if I have tomato slices on a sandwich I am struggling to keep the sandwich from coming up again. I can’t explain it. Confused [%-)]

Thanks for the C&O article!Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup] One of the Class 1 roads I don’t know much about! I copied the article for future reference!Smile [:)]

Mike –  I also copied your articles about C&O for future use.Thumbs Up [tup] I think the price for 23,000 miles of railroad plus a lot of other assets (coal mines, etc.) the price was, if not right, at least a bargain!

Thanks for the links! I love that picture of the triple crossing! Thumbs Up [tup]

James –  I think that house is a little bit too close to the railroad. After have seen what can fall off freight trains I would not feel comfortable living there. Nice pictures!!Thumbs Up [tup]

The doubledecker in my picture is a car in a Class X40 train set. I do not have a good picture of the complete train, but I’ll try to fix a picture I have that is too dark. Hopefully I can show it tomorrow.

Streetcars are indeed a very good mean of transportation!Yeah!! [yeah] They are making comeback in more and more cities around the world! A trolley built in Sweden in Duluth? I have to do some research.

CM3 –  I know what kind of trouble a forgotten folder can create so don’t try too hard. If you find it, I would love to know but if you don’t I’ll survive!Smile [:)]

I am very impressed (too say the least)!!!Bow [bow]Bow [bow] A very well written and very interesting article, “Passenger Stop”, about C&O!!!Thumbs Up [tup] I think you have the wrong kind of job I couldn’t help smiling when I read about the engineer “who liked to bring it inin fast and hit the markas he stopped”. That is exactly what I liked to do! Very important though to stop the train in a way so the passengers standing inside, waiting to get off, didn’t fall or stumble. I copied your article!

Lars –  Thanks for lunch!Thumbs Up [tup]

Keep your stay at the Penthouse suite secret?Question [?] Who was there last weekend then? Hmm.Confused [%-)]

A whole bunch of interesting book(s) covers!Thumbs Up [tup]

Have a safe trip to Florida and Good Luck finding the right place!!!

Pete –  Thanks for the C&O ad! Sleep like a kitten! Thumbs Up [tup]

Rob –  The homeless guy got a lot of attention of the paramedics and was taken to the hospital in the ambulance.
I learned about the plans for the streetcars in Tucson when I talked to the operator of the streetcar. I liked to hear that everything was already decided and the work has started.Smile [:)]

Interesting story about the C&O and B&O merger 1962! Thumbs Up [tup]I am adding it to the other C&O articles!

Iowa.

 

Eric 

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Posted by CMSTPP on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:35 PM

G-day Captain [4:-)] Tom and all present!

Thanks for offering me more coffee leon, But I'm still working on my first one. Thanks again.Thumbs Up [tup]

How about that last round of pics on the C&O!!

bo4157

The kitty shines in the sun with this freight passing by with quite a lash up of power. A GP40 leads 4 other GPs with it's coal train.

B&O 4157 Cumberland, MD, April 16, 1977 along with B&O 6930, WM 6407, 7574 & 6912, Kodachrome by David Hamley

bo4145

Now here's a mixture of power sitting at the fueling station. Notice the old coal tower in the back ground. I wonder if that had much of a future past when this picture was taken. To bad really.

B&O 4145 GP40-2, Southern 3144 SD45, Southern 3017, SD35 at the Kentucky & Illinois Terminal Yard, Louisville, Kentucky, October 13, 1973
Kodachrome by David Oroszi

That's it for me. Hope you guys enjoy them!

Happy railroadingLaugh [(-D]

James

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
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Posted by CMSTPP on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:25 PM

G-day Captain [4:-)] Tom and all present!

Leon- Glad to see you today. Could I get a coffee and a Roast-"beast" sandwich. ThanksThumbs Up [tup]

I am surprised how warm it is up here in the Duluth area. Right now it's about 65 degrees. It's all good!Thumbs Up [tup]

I am now on page 50 and workin my way back. Starting with acknowledgements and then a second round of pictures for the theme of the day.

Pete- Thanks for the 1946 advertisement. I liked the ending to it.   NOW . . . AS ALWAYS - The B&O is the Way to Go! What a good line!Smile [:)] Thanks for sharing interesting little story about the guard and his black eye. Ouch... All I can say is he was a lucky man that he wasn't fired or seriously hurt in that little.. ah.. problem.Black Eye [B)]

I also noticed that you had mentioned that your Amtrak tickets hadn't arrived yet. Where do plan on going with out me?Big Smile [:D]Whistling [:-^] I noticed a picture of what you call the signal box. That to me looks like a huge junction tower to me. I have not seen any tower like that on a railroad. I am impressed with that tower.Thumbs Up [tup] I also liked the 0-4-0 Coppernob but I have a question about it. Is it a modelQuestion [?] To me, with such a small coach on the back, I don't think anyone would be able to fit into it. Great pictures. Enjoyed them, thanks.Thumbs Up [tup]

And thanks for the interesting piece on the Chessie Corridor. Sounded like a neat ride indeed. I would love to sleep like a kitten, that sounds absolutely wonderful.Approve [^]

Tom- Once again the idiot of the week #12 surprises me. What was he thinking for gaud sakes!! Well, at least you know what not to do.Sigh [sigh]

Thanks for the passenger nostalgia #33.Thumbs Up [tup] With the name "Winnepegger" you would think that it would be Canadian railroad such as the DWP or CN. But the Soo Line took the honors for this train. Some pretty neat information and something kinda in the area I live too. Thanks. I see that you are in need of some help this week on Friday. I could fill in with some dialog and things that would be of interest around here no problem.Approve [^] If you want I can stop by in the mornings and early afternoons around 3 to 4 pm. If that sounds good to you. And yes, I will be there. You can count on me.Wink [;)]

Well when it comes to East coast railroads I don't know to much about them, But your explanation and history on the C&O helped me to get to know those railroads a little better. I was surprised by a lot of the information like the C&O was part of the merger of the CSX. Wikipedia is a great source. Thanks for sharing.Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

Thanks for the reply on the B&O dome car. That would certainly be an interesting way to view the country side by night. I would love to see that. Approve [^]

Eric- Interesting picture there of the train in Stockholm, Sweden.Thumbs Up [tup] It certainly isn't covered by passengers. I have a question. Those cars are very similar to the Amtrak's Superliner cars. Do you have any more pictures of the cars/ trainQuestion [?] What are these cars calledQuestion [?]

Great picture of the street car from Japan. I haven't really been in to many street cars before, but I have heard there a good means of transportation. We have something very similar to the street car here in Duluth. We still run it at the Museum and it's as old as the hills. Built in, I believe 1905 or 06 from Sweden as a matter in fact, It sill runs after a 100 years and we take people on little 10 minute rides with it. It's a pretty cool little trolley.Thumbs Up [tup]

Things are going alright. It's just been a really odd and nutty month. But now things have slowed down I am able to enjoy the things I like to do again.Thumbs Up [tup]

CM3- Thanks for the article on the B&O coal mining.Thumbs Up [tup] I was surprised to learn that the boating industry really wasn't in the coal hauling operations for long. I thought they had been at it for quite a few years. But hey, the railroad stepped in and that was that. Neat little story about the "Passenger stop." A cool story and a lot of descriptive words. Excellent!! 5 Thumbs Up [tup]!Also, thanks for the description at the end of it. I was happy to know that the trains were usually headed by E7s or E8s. Those are some of my favorite passenger units besides the E6. Thanks for all the interesting info.Approve [^]

Doug- Did I see the word Milwaukee!!!Mischief [:-,] So what "exact-tacaly" did you talk about? Hopefully buying the little Joe out in Deer Lodge, Montana and restoring it to running condition....Right?....... Hey, I can dream can't I? Big Smile [:D]

Anyway, Nice pictures of the interior view of the Pioneer Zephyr.Thumbs Up [tup] I am very impressed how well restored those cars are. Everything looks really pristine. I would certainly like to visit that Zephyr someday. And maybe I can next year when I come down to Chicago. And were in the world do you find all these jokes at!!

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
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"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:32 PM

 

G'day Gents!

Many THANX to all for the Posts in support of our "Theme for the Day - C&O"!! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):

Mike at 7:40 AM today: A fine spate of URLs coupled with a narrative at the beginning to hail the Chesapeake & Ohio Theme for the Day! Of course a well done to our not-so-silent Mike, the URLMeisterMonster. Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Love that "triple crossing" URL! And so many, many others . . .

Between the Wikipedia "stuff" and the Time article, there's more than enough to satisfy one's curiosity about the C&O. Well done! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

James at 7:43 AM today: An early riser from Duluth and some Pix to boost the C&O ‘theme' - thanx! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

I can recall seeing loco's and cars with the dual B&O - C&O markings and wondering, why??? Now we all know . . . Don't think Chessie will ever "get it" for me when it comes to what was and when it was. 

 

CM3 at 9:12 AM today: First time you provided us with that Mint Juleps and Black Diamonds work of joy was way back on May 30th, 2006 on Page 345 of the original Thread. Enjoyed it then - enjoyed it again today! Also the Passenger Stop makes for fine reading as well. Both designed to make one "feel" the experiences chronicled. A gift you have, fer sure, fer sure! Thanx for both! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

A-Rod is hotter ‘n a firecracker, but the Yanks keep losing. Undoubtedly makes your heart "glow." <grin> Cards ‘n Cubs here should be a bit more of a contest in comparison with the ‘wind blowing out' game on this past Sunday.

Appreciate the round, quarters ‘n visit! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Lars at 12:04 PM today: First - thanx for the Email and phone call and Email. You're working overtime, Mate - chill, man, chill. <grin>

Some super fine book covers today and they surely covered the spectrum for our "theme" C&O. Nicely done and really adds to the idea of what we try to accomplish here on Tuesdays! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

I'm guessing Ruth isn't heading off to Florida and there's no informative forth coming regarding the "occupant du jour" for the Penthouse Suite, eh Question [?] Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Have a safe and stress free venture down to the Keys. Hope the choice you and your bride make is precisely what you both want and that all turns out even better than anticipated! Yeah!! [yeah] We'll surely miss our Manager, and so will "you know WHO!!!" <grin>

 

DL at 12:09 PM today: Many thanx for the visit and glad you found the VIA Rail info of some assistance. When all else fails - call ‘em. Eventually even the "800" number people will figure out what is going on! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Be lookin' for ya in a few days . . .

 

Pete at 2:19 PM today: Thanx for the phone call. Sorry to learn your ‘puter is giving you fits, but glad to see that you made it to the bar. Yeah!! [yeah]

How did we EVER make it from day to day WITHOUT these Censored [censored] "things," eh Question [?]

Rendezvous is almost upon us - and I just received the "clearance and authorization" from Metro (operators of our MetroLink light rail) giving the "okay" to take pictures! Only took ‘em from late March to authorize it. Well at least that "detail" is out of the way . . .

Hey, no sweat on the use of any material I've placed at the bar. That's kinda the way we do things when the ‘well runs dry' on "stuff." Looks good to me! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Weather Gurus are predicting some bad storms for us too - coming in later this evening. Maybe they'll wear themselves out before reaching these parts . . . I've gotta go to a subdivision meeting tonight. <ugh> Not something I enjoy and always a reminder to NEVER, EVER volunteer! <grin> You'd think I'd have learned THAT lesson many decades ago when I signed over the best part of my adult life to the organization I gave 32 years to. Maybe I didn't get "rich," but I'm far "richer" for the experiences! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Rob at 3:39 PM ‘n 3:47 PM today: Really surprise ‘n a treat to see the trolleyMAN again, and twice at that during the PM daylight! Wow!! [wow]

A nice "cap" to the B&O - C&O merger. Info that puts much of it into a better perspective, fer sure, fer sure! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Didn't know about the Chessie ‘n Bessie "thing" either! Thumbs Up [tup]

About the museum "flap": keeping up the pressure is the BEST that anyone can do at this juncture. They seem perfectly ‘content' with the approach they've taken to "look into" the matter. I keep thinking about those brave men who did what had to be done to put down the tyranny of the times . . .  Revisionist is a dirty word. <barf>

Too bad we can't "connect" by train between here ‘n there - I used to know a guy who lived up in Ontario (Greenwoods, I believe - NE of Toronto) who used to travel between St. Louis ‘n Toronto on business. Said he'd book sleepers because he didn't have to ch

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:47 PM

Good aftrenoon again folks, Ruth another round of Keith's if you would be so kind.Before I get to my contribution for the day that sort of covers both of the last two. Let me first say to Pete, that I enjoyed the advert you posted, I couldn't see it on the first read through then it materialized wierd ,but then we are accustomed the that around here.

THEME OF THE DAY THEME OF THE DAY THEME OF THE DAY

THE END OF THE B&O MERGER WITH THE C&O

As with many railroads of the time the 1960's were not good to the B&O. It along with some of the other great eastern roads of the past like the NYC and PRR, started the slide towards mergers to continue theuir existance as viable transportation systems in the ever modernizing world.

THE B&O AND C&O

 Going against the unions and most of the wishes of many of the eastern roads, the ICC said yes to the merger of the B&O/C&O on new years eve 1962.It was thought that in some quarters this resulting railroad would end up being the strongest one in the east.On Feb 4 1963, the C&O formalized it's control over it's once rival B&O. This change of power took place one minute past midnight and was the moment the ICC approval became a reality. The knot was teid in the B&O's boardroom, fitting I think of the nation's oldest railroad.

 thios combined system owned 11,000 miles of track stretching from the Atlantic, to the Mississippi River,and from the Great Lakes to the southern boarder of Kentucky. The B&O railroad obtained loans from C&O's financeers to enhance it's aging locomotive fleet, and to refurbish tunnels , yards and fleet facilities.In march 1968, the ICC approved the aquisition of the Western maryland by the B&O/C&O railway adding this 800 mile regional road to the system.

 Over the yeasr after the merhger C&O people slowly replaced the old guard at the B&O with Gregory DeVine assuming the dual presidancies on the death of B&O President Tuohy in 1966.By 1970, the B&O Board included six men that also served on teh C&O board and 94 percent of the B&O was in the holdings of teh C&O.

END OF PASSENGER SERVICE

 The B&O's passeneger service had been a long time loser of money and amny lines had alraady been cut back.Yet the federal govt still had not allowed the major interurban carriers like te B&O to shed these money losing services.So the B&O like many other roads continued to hemorrhege cash on passenger service.Once the government decided to form Amtrak, the B&O like many of the rest of the nations railways paid out a lump sum and discontinued their passenger services, leaving them to the federally operated Amtrak.A payment of 29.6 milion was made to the National railroad Passenger Corporation in 1970, and thus freed the B&O/C&O to become all freight operations.

CHESSIE SYSTEM

In 1971 Presidient DeVine, retired and was replaced by Hays Watkins, a C&O man since 1949.President watkins had the name Chessie System adopted as the marketing name for the C&O/B&O/WM conglomorate. The C&O and B&O continued to operate separattly but now shared a common head office in Cleveland.

 The name Chessie refers to the C&O's cat logo first used in the early 1930's as a gimmikc for the then C&O's passeneger sevice.The C&O used the kitten sleeping on a blanket in a Fortune mag ad in 1933 and the tag line sleep like a kitten.Thinking originally that Chessie should have a B&O counterpart for ad purposes as well, they came up with "BESSIE" the cat for B&O, but after a shareholders survey they decided that it was not a good idea, so Bessie died on the drawing board.They did however at the time adopt the now famouc C with the cat Silhouette used on their locomotives and ads, adding it to the WM as well once the WM was completely absorbed into teh Chessie System in 1974. At this time the Blue yellow and Vermillion painted locomotives began arriving on scene , with the only notion of the original owners being a B&O, C&) or WM initial under the cab road numbers.

Rob

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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:39 PM

Good afternoon Ruth. I see that you've had some business this afternoon which is all good. I'll grab a keith's and leave a little extra to help wet the whistles of anyone comming in latter today.Thumbs Up [tup]

Tom-First off top notch info on the railroad of the week ( our theme days have expanded these last couple of weeks or so which is a good thing Thumbs Up [tup] )As always an inclusive and informative report an A+ to be sure.I'm glad that you approve of next weeks choice, all Canadian roads are fine with me.My computer survived my ham handed memory upgrades, alas I'm just not a techie which is why I'll never go to DCC either Thumbs Down [tdn].If I hear about a concerted effort where the museum is concerned I'll definatly let you know.Most people up hear are just giving it to thier MP's with both barrels. My next coarse of action is to look into emailing the museum directly seems to be a logical next step.

Lars-Great books as always. We will miss your presance around here but we will over come and keep your stool warm and your beer cold.

CM3-Wow's all I can say. You certainly have not dissapointed, a well rounded piece sir I Bow [bow] to you !

James-Good to see you in a couple days in a row,some mighty fine pictures to boot Thumbs Up [tup] Nice to see that wheeled dinosaur behind the Geep Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]I look forward to seeing the shots you mentioned of the WC employee train. I imagine that the stock used was Algoma Central equipment from their passenger pool.

Eric-good news about Tucons streetcars, bad news about that poor fellow you helped, I hope he does get the care and shelter he needs and the fool that did it to him gets what he deserves.I'm with Tom though as much as cold and snow's annoying I could not live for long in your climate down there.

Mike-great article and great urls to go along with. i love it when we are firing on all cylnders around here Thumbs Up [tup]

Pete-I'm glad that you made it in.erhaops you need to cross your eyes amd type backwards to avoid the sign on demons / Alien [alien]'s.Hopefully Ms. Throttlebotom was able to show you those tricks in te typing classes. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Rob

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  • 1,054 posts
Posted by pwolfe on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:19 PM

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of bitter and a round for a great C&O theme day please RUTH.Thumbs Up [tup]

Having a lot of problems with the net on my puter today and it looks a though a thunder storm is heading inShock [:O]. So I will post this advert that TOM posted on page 372 of the old thread, then I will have a read of the posts and back later with the acknowledgements.Thumbs Up [tup].

Here's something to enjoy regarding the C&O from a 1940 advertisement found in one of my scrap books.
first Posted on page 148





YOU'LL WISH YOU COULD LOOK both ways AT ONCE!

EXPERIENCED TRAVELERS call it "The most beautiful train trip in the East," this mountain-and-canyon route of Chesapeake and Ohio Lines. On this magnificent journey you look out and down upon waves of mountains - the majestic Alleghanies, the mysteriously tinted Blue Ridge . . . upon valleys stretching like bright carpets to the far, purple hills. The scene changes - and you look up the towering green walls of the New River Gorge as you roll smoothly through the widest and deepest canyon this side of the Rockies. Yes, when you watch this panorama of thrilling beauty from your train windows, you'll wish you could look both ways at once!

On your next trip east or west GO CHESAPEAKE AND OHIO . . . and enjoy glorious mountain country!

You'll travel in complete comfort, on the smoothest of roadbeds, in cool, clean air-conditioned cars that invite you to relax by day and Sleep Like a Kitten at night . . . When you travel west or east, plan to ride through The Chessie Corridor on these famous trains- THE GEORGE WASHINGTON - THE SPORTSMAN - THE F. F. V.


Sleep like a Kitten

THE CHESSIE CORRIDOR, The Scenic Route of the East
A NEW BOOK on Chessies Travel Packages will help you plan interesting, economic trips. Write for free copy to Chesapeake and Ohio Travel Services, 829 East Main St., Richmond, Va.

George Washington's Railroad
CHESAPEAKE and OHIO Lines
Original Predecessor Company Founded by George Washington in 1785


Enjoy! Thumbs Up [tup]

Thanks TOM for letting me use this great ad.

Pete.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 280 posts
Posted by DL - UK on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:09 PM

Hello all

Quick pint of Taylor's Landlord please. Just wanted to thank Tom for the heads up on the Hudson's bay run - accurate and up to date - cheers. Will be back in due course for other acknowldegments and comments, but out and about for the next 2 days or so. Will be able to check out the C&O info and due course. Thansk for the congrats on the 1,000th post by the way to all who marked the event!

DL

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:04 PM

Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar! 

Ruth, a double "hit" of Jack and set one aside for the Cap'n. He's had a baaaaaaaaad start to the day and those of us who "know" owe him at least a drink! Yeah!! [yeah] 

I see that the C&O is off 'n running THANKS to a fine beginning for us all by our Mentor & Proprietor, Tom. Perhaps the last to get mentioned, if ever by some. Anyway, I appreciate the work you put into EVERYTHING for us! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Haven't decided on what weekend for the use of the "Penthouse Suite," but I'll surely keep it secret from this gathering! <grin>

Three follow-up offerings from Mike - James - and Shane. Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

I will be back next week, not sure what day, but if all goes as planned, we should be home on Sunday.

Here's my book covers for this Theme Day! Thumbs Up [tup]

(some may not enlarge)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lunch on me today, set 'em up Ruth 'n treats for the critters, including Boris! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Lars

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 9:12 AM

Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.  Clouds and rain today, but at least the temperature is seasonable.  I was on the DL yesterday (dental work), but am back at it today.  First off, congrats to all who posted the "big numbers."

A few comments and then on to today's subject; C&O.

Pete stopped by with comments and historical material.  Thanks for the picture of the electric locomotive and your other shots.

Eric - I have some ancient B&O material somewhere which should give us the mileage figure you want; now if I could just find the right folder.  The streetcar picture was a good one.

Barndad sent Zephyr pictures.

Lars - Have a lot of the books you posted.  The Monon one is an excellent survey of that road.

DL provided some fine via shots.  And we have some fine movies as well.  I thoroughly enjoyed all of the Red Sox-Yankee activity over the weekend; just think we get to do it again this weekend.  Sunday ESPN game here is Cards vs. Cubs.  SOO Line is one of those "I always wanted to ride but never got a chance" situations. 

DL provided a trip report and more historical material

James sent comments and reminiscences - The "gold" B&O engine was done up to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of EMD. 

Today is C&O and we are off to a fine start.  Mike sent lots of pictures and I will have more to say about that later this week. 

Here's my offering for today - all first hand stuff.

Passenger Stop

In the smoky West Virginia air stood a small group of people on the platform at the brick railroad station waiting for the New York train.  Their talk was typical of any mountain town; the women discussing children, families, birth and death; and the men hunting, fishing and the latest gossip from up and down the river.  These were hard working people; black and white, tied together for a short time by the common bond of waiting for the New York train.

Obediently following its four locomotives, a 90-car coal train swung off the branch line west of the station and clumped by the building.  Three more engines were on the rear with the caboose tucked in behind them.  The train pulled off the main line and onto the yard lead only to be passed by another coal train on the main.  The second train was an interdivisional or "ID" coal train pulled by four diesels.  Smoke billowed up from the tops of the engines and sand poured down as they tried to keep their footing on the rails while pulling the heavy train.

Inside, the ticket agent sold a last coach ticket for Washington, slid the ticket window shut, and made sure the office was locked before lighting another cigarette and going outside to drag the heavy baggage wagon, its iron wheels clanking, down to the east end of the cracked concrete platform.

A sharp-eared passenger heard a locomotive blowing for the tunnel west of the station and said, "Here it comes."  Another blast from the horn and the train surged out of the tunnel, roared past the station and braked to a noisy screeching halt.  Here, clearly, was an engineer who liked to bring it in fast and hit the mark as he stopped.  The car doors opened and a handful of passengers climbed down while others boarded.  Up front, the agent handed suitcases and boxes into the baggage car's gaping doors.  The baggage handler passed a few suitcases and boxes down to the ticket agent along with a manila envelope stamped "R.R.B."  This was company mail.  The conductor stood impatiently by the open coach door, waiting for the two men to finish their work.  They were done.  The conductor flipped a highball signal to the engineer; two blasts on the horn, the "sough" of releasing brakes, and the train was rolling again, continuing its journey east.

Mint Juleps and Black Diamonds:  Memories of the "George Washington"

The focus of this story is the on the C&O.  Listed in the timetable as train 2-22-42-46, the "George Washington" served a lot of places with a lot of trains, all under the same name.  Train 2 operated between St. Louis and Washington; train 22 ran from Louisville to Ashland, KY; train 42 handled traffic between Charlottesville and Newport News, VA; and train 46 ran between Detroit and Huntington, WV.  Four trains operating under one name.

The consist was confusing as well if you didn't take time to study it.  Eastbound, the C&O operated 10/6 "Chessie Starlight Sleepers" between Louisville and Washington and Cincinnati and New port News.  Coaches ran between St. Louis and Washington, DC; Louisville and Washington, Detroit and Huntington; Huntington and Newport News and Cincinnati and Newport News.  A diner operated between Cincinnati and Washington and Louisville and Washington, a "snack diner" between Charlottesville and Newport News, and a coffee shop car between Vincennes and Cincinnati.

The Louisville section of the "George" carried us toward the east and home over more than a few holiday seasons and on other occasions..

Louisville Union Station, right up until the end of railroad-operated passenger service, had an eclectic collection of trains, including runs operated by the Pennsylvania Railroad, the L&N, and by the Chesapeake and Ohio. 

Louisville had an architectural resemblance to the stations at Nashville and Montgomery, Alabama, in that both structures were made of stone and had large train sheds.  The track layout was different in Louisville, however.  Whereas Nashville and Montgomery were through stations, Louisville was a stub on a wye which meant that trains had to sometimes back into the station or nose into the station depending on which way they were headed. 

The L&N was the biggest presence there, but the C&O made itself known as well.  Let us begin.

Just before Amtrak, the Louisville and Nashville's "Pan American" operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans via Louisville.  It carried through cars for Florida from the "South Wind" between Louisville and Montgomery where these cars were handed over to the Seaboard Coast Line for the remainder of their journey.  The "South Wind" did not operate every day, so the "Pan" was shorter than usual on certain runs.

The "Pan American" carried a mixture of stainless steel and blue-painted cars.  The stainless cars generally had block lettering while the blue cars carried the name Louisville and Nashville in gold script.  Some of the stainless cars had black script lettering.

The usual "Pan" consist included a baggage car, two or more coaches, a counter-lounge, and a 10/6 sleeper which operated between Louisville and New Orleans.  "South Wind" cars usually ran on the head end.  These cars included coaches and sleepers and a dome car during the winter season.

Power was either a pair of E7s or a pair of E8s in gray and yellow livery. The E8s were mostly ex-Frisco units which had been named for racehorses.  Some of these engines survived until Amtrak days and finished out their careers in Pittsburgh.

The ride from Nashville to Louisville always included a big breakfast in the L&N's dining car.  The counter-lounge cars were ex Maine-Central cars.  A heavyweight diner ran on the days the lightweight counter cars did not.  The heavyweight car gave a beautiful ride.  The northbound run was through pleasant rolling countryside.  The train moved along at a steady pace except for its passage over Muldraughs Hill.  The hill was as big an operational headache to the "Old Reliable: as Alleghany was to the C&O.

Since Louisville Union Station's layout was that of a stub on a wye, all trains had to go through some complicated maneuvers to get into the station.  The Es would be cut off and a black and gold painted SW switcher would attack the train.  The Wind cars and the Louisville sleeper would be cut out and shoved onto adjacent tracks.  The baggage car would be recoupled to the train.  Meanwhile, car inspectors would be checking running gear while another crew watered the cars.  A new set of Es backed down and coupled onto the train.  Baggage and express would be loaded and unloaded.  While all of this was happening, the "South Wind's" cars were being readied for their trip up the P Company to Chicago. All of this business was conducted under an immense train shed - as only the L&N had on their stations.  The "South Wind" departed, immediately followed by the "Pan American." 

It was then that passengers noticed the short train sitting in the far corner of the train shed.  A sign at the gate, black letters on a yellow background, proclaimed that this train was the C&O flagship, "George Washington." The "George" left Louisville behind a single E8.  The cars were stainless steel with blue and yellow striping, except for the head end car which was blue and gray.  The consist included a combine coach, one or two lightweight coaches, a "Club" series diner lounge and a "City" series 10/6 sleeper, often the "City of Beckley."  The train was always clean; inside and out.  Those of us who periodically enjoyed some of the excesses of the northeast were surprised at how clean the C&O managed to keep their equipment; even in winter.

The train would be called far enough in advance to allow the passengers to get settled in.  Departure from Louisville was always interesting because of the "street" running the train dad while getting out of town.  The cars really rocked going through the wye track and switches around the station. 

Between Louisville and Winchester, Kentucky, was the roughest part of the trip.  The station at Winchester was a brick structure with a distinct C&O architectural flavor.  This was the boundary between rough and smooth track.

The "George" was now on the C&O and it immediately picked up speed on its eastward trip across Kentucky.  This part of the ride was through gentle rolling country which was full of farms.  The grass was like a green carpet in the spring, and even in the winter, the harshness of snow and bare trees was somewhat softened by the contours of the landscape.

The diner beckoned between Lexington and Ashland.  The menu included three entrees: roast beef, fish, or pork chops.  Dinner included potatoes, vegetable, and salad.  Passengers could select dessert from blueberry pie, baked apple, ice cream with chocolate sauce, or cheese and crackers.  The complete roast beef dinner sold for $4.25.  There was also a buffet special, usually veal parmagiana, which listed for $2.75. 

The Louisville section arrived at Ashland at 8:30 p.m.  The Detroit section pulled in at around 8:50 p.m. and the trains were combined for the 25-minute trip to Huntington.  The Cincinnati section arrived at Ashland at 9:24 p.m., and departed at 9:30 p.m. for a 9:50 p.m. arrival at Huntington.  All trains were combined at Huntington for the trek across the mountains to Charlottesville.  This involved a lot of switching, and it was possible to lose track of where your car was.  Train personnel were careful to warn passengers to "stick close" to their cars, especially if one or the other trains was running late.

The passage through West Virginia, especially along New River in the moonlight was beautiful, but the smooth ride often put me to sleep. 

The "George" was broken up at Charlottesville.  The early riser would be treated to watching a GP7 or GP9 making up the Newport News and Washington sections of the train.  Yard engineers handled the cars gently to keep from awakening sleeping passengers, but no time was wasted in switching. 

E8s would couple onto the Washington section, air tests would be made, and the "George" set off on the last leg of its journey to Washington.  The run finished on joint C&O/Southern trackage.  The train paused at Alexandria, passed by Pot Yard, crossed the Potomac and slid under the Capitol into the lower level of Washington Union station.  The Es would be cut off to thread their way through the maze of terminal trackage to Ivy City.  Passengers streamed toward the station at a blue and white Washington Terminal RS1 coupled onto the George and pulled it off to the coach yard to be cleaned, turned, and readied for its next trip.

Each railroad's passenger trains had their own atmosphere which gave the trains their character.  The "George Washington" was no exception.

The "George" used to carry through cars to New York.  These cars ran on the Pennsylvania Railroad north of Washington.  It was a splendid sight to see stainless, blue and yellow C&O cars mixed in with tuscan red PRR cars, rolling along behind a GG1.  The C&O cars stood out among other cars from different lines at Sunnyside Yard.  An alert passenger could easily spot them in the yard from the window of a "Penn job" coming off the Hell Gate Bridge and into New York.

I was awakened in my roomette one snowy night just before Christmas, 1969.  The "George" had been late out of Huntington because of heavy snows in Ohio which had delayed the Cincinnati sections.  I had gone to bed but was now wide awake from the rocking motion of a train in a hurry. Snow billowed up along the sides of the cars from the speed of our passing.  The "George" was making up time and a pair of C&O E8s were letting the scattered houses along the way know about it.  We rounded a curve and far behind I could see the markers on the last car (a business car) shining through the snow.  We had about 22 cars on the train; 17 of which went to Washington.   We were late into Washington, but the sight of the train in the snow was worth the delay.

On May 1, 1971 I rode the last "Pan American" from Nashville to Louisville.  The Pan carried its usual consist plus cars from the "Gulf Wind," a tri-weekly train which ran between New Orleans and Jacksonville.  A track gang was working at the north end of the station trackage in Nashville.  They removed their caps as the last "Pan" passed by.  I watched the switching drill at Louisville.  The "Pan" departed, and then the headlight of C&O 1468 stabbed through the darkness under the train shed.  The last Louisville section of the "George" passed in review; a typical consist with the "City of Beckley" bringing up the rear.  The train swept by, its engine and cars rocking through the switches.  It went around the wye and was gone; just a faint haze of smoke in the air.  It seemed like another day's departure from Louisville, but it was the end of an era.

work safe

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Along the old Milwaukee Road.
  • 1,152 posts
Posted by CMSTPP on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:43 AM

G-day Captain [4:-)] Tom and all present!

Ruth- Good to see you. Could I get an OJ with one of those patries, thanksThumbs Up [tup]

Well, I'm here to drop off some theme of the day pics and then later on to day I will be back with some acknowledgements.

bo4300

Now how would you like to live "right next" to the railroad. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg] You cold look out the window and say, "Hey, there goes one of those manifest freights with a couple of SD40-2s"Wink [;)]

B&O 4000, 4121 & 3512, Sand Patch, PA September 17, 1978, Kodachrome by Rodney Peterson

bo6543

Now here's a old getting older GP7. I really liked the caboose on the end of this loco. A pretty coolshot. There wasn't any information on this and it only said collection of John Rust.

bogm50c

B&O GM50 at Elizabethport, New Jersey on January 16, 1973 Kodachrome by John F. Dalton III Now I have seen this before but I'm not exactly sure why they painted it a gold color. I think it's to celebrate 50 years of the B&O. Maybe someone else here can explain this.

Happy railroadingLaugh [(-D]

James

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:40 AM

Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house

Theme day! Borrowed some stuff. Here 'tis:

Chesapeake & Ohio  TIME Magazine  March 23, 1927 time.com

The Van Sweringen brothers (Oris Paxton & Mantis James) last week presented a revised arrangement of their railroads to the Interstate Commerce Commission for approval. As in the case of the Nickel Plate System plans, disapproved last year by the I. C. C., Henry W. Anderson and George S. Kemp of Richmond, Va., who represent Chesapeake & Ohio minority stockholders, are opposing the Van Sweringens now. Hearings may last a year-as they did in the Nickel Plate System case.

The Van Sweringen roads, which the two brothers control through stock ownership and cooperation of other stock owners sympathetic with their aims, are: Chesapeake & Ohio, Nickel Plate R. R. (nickname for New York, Chicago & St. Louis R. R.), Pere Marquette and Erie.

The C. & O. connects Chicago, Cincinnati and Louisville with Washington and James River ports (Newport News, Old Point Comfort, Norfolk). The territory furnishes farm products and coal for railroad transportation.

Over the Hocking Valley, which it now owns, the C. & O. carries coal across industrial Ohio to Toledo, where the coal is transshipped for northern Great Lakes ports. Oris Paxton Van Sweringen is chairman of the C. & O. board of directors.

The Nickel Plate R. R. connects Chicago, Peoria and St. Louis with Toledo, Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo-industrial territory. Mantis Jares Van Sweringen is chairman of this road's board of directors.

The Pere Marquette connects grain and iron ore ports on Lake Michigan's eastern shore with industrial Toledo, Detroit and, across the Ontario peninsula of Canada, mercantile Buffalo.

The Erie connects Chicago and Cincinnati with Cleveland, Buffalo and New York harbor-industrial and mercantile territory; some coal, some farm products.

The plan creating the Nickel Plate System to compete in the East with the Pennsylvania, New York Central and the Baltimore & Ohio was for the Nickel Plate R. R. to buy from the Van Sweringens and their associates control of the Erie, Pere Marquette and the C. & O. By controlling the Nickel Plate R. R., which became a sort of holding company, the Van Sweringens planned to control the whole system at relatively small cost to themselves. To reduce their investment further, they formed the Vaness Co. as a company to hold their controlling stock in the Nickel Plate R. R. They sold Vaness stock- for cash, retaining enough stock certificates however, to keep control.

The revised arrangement is for the C. & O. to buy the Van Sweringens interests in the Erie and the Pere Marquette. These roads would be in the same relation to the C. & O. as the Hocking Valley already is, i. e., subsidiaries. The hearings begun last week seek I. C. C. approval of these specific purchases. No mergers will be mentioned if wise Van Sweringen lawyers, of which Newton Diehl Baker is the wisest, can divert the queries of sharp-questioning Henry W. Anderson.

The quarrel that makes the hearings bitter arises from the fact that the Nickel Plate R. R. owns stock control of the C. & O., and the Van Sweringens and their Vaness Co. continue to own the Nickel Plate. C. & O. minority stockholders claim that their company is buying Van Sweringen property at prices set high by the Van Sweringens. They claim, too, that, if the I. C. C. permits the C. & O. to buy the Erie and the Pere Marquette (at Van Sweringen prices), later the Nickel Plate R. R. (i. e., Van Sweringens and Vaness Co.) may hornswoggle the C. & O.

Chesapeake Corp. Recently the Van Sweringens created the Chesapeake Corp. as a subsidiary of the Nickel Plate. In exchange for the 900,000 shares of the new corporation, the Nickel Plate gave it 600,000 shares of C. & O. stock. The 600,000 shares are slightly more than 50% of C. & O. stock. Therefore, the Chesapeake Corp. now controls the C. & O. The Nickel Plate can sell 449,999 shares of Chesapeake Corp. and still keep control of this corporation and, through it, of the C. & O.

Last week the Chesapeake Corp. pawned its 600,000 C. & O. shares (worth $105,000,000) for $48,000,000 by selling a collateral bond issue through J. P. Morgan & Co. These $48,000,000 give the Van Sweringens cash with which to pay off debts to bankers.

Virginian Railway. At the C. & O. hearing last week President William Johnson Harahan of the C. & O. mentioned that he was trying to buy control of the Virginian Railway for $80,000,000. This is the 545-mile road that Col. Henry H. Rogers of Standard Oil built to tap the soft coal deposits at Deepwater, W. Va. It runs parallel with the C. & O. to Hampton Roads, Va. Last year the Pennsylvania, through its subsidiary, the Norfolk & Western, sought to lease the Virginian for 999 years. But the I. C. C. said no. The C. & O. may have better arguments to present before the I. C. C.

Schematization. The following table schematizes the eventual, hoped-for relations of the various Van Sweringen properties:

Van Sweringens control Vaness Co.

Vaness Co. controls Nickel Plate.

Nickel Plate controls Chesapeake Corp.

Chesapeake Corp. controls C. & O.

C. & O. controls Erie.

C. & O. controls Pere Marquette.

C. & O. controls Hocking Valley.

C. & O. controls Virginian

Empire Sold  Time Magazine Oct. 7, 1935 

A grubby auction hall is the Exchange Salesroom at No. 18 Vesey St., Manhattan. There in one corner is the famed auction block of Adrian H. Muller & Son which for a fee will sell anyone's securities. Both Mr. Muller and his son are dead, and the firm today is run by Miss Helen M. Collins, fortyish and efficient. One afternoon last week Miss Collins held the most spectacular auction in U. S. history.

Across her block passed control of the $3,000,000,000 Van Sweringen rail and real estate empire, put up for sale by J. P. Morgan & Co. and a group of banks that held as collateral for some $50,000,000 of past-due notes practically all the securities the two Cleveland bachelors ever owned.

It was a great day for Miss Collins, who stood at her auctioneer's elbow throughout the long, dull sale. She tried to preserve the dignity of the occasion by sternly denying entrance to all photographers but scores of newsmen milled craning about the small group of men seated before the block. In that group were representatives of the bankers who bid to protect themselves. At a tall desk with clerks and calculating machines stood Col. Leonard P. Ayres, Cleveland Trust Co.'s vice president-economist who bid in behalf of Mid-American Corp., especially chartered last week as the new top Van Sweringen holding company. Morgan Partner George Whitney was there with Morgan lawyers. Conspicuously absent was old bush-bearded Leonor Fresnel Loree, who has been built up in the Press as a likely Van Sweringen rival. And toward the rear was the iron-grey head of Oris Paxton Van Sweringen. Brother Mantis James did not attend.

From the moment Miss Collins' auctioneer thumped his palm for the first sale it was clear that "O. P." and "M. J." would regain their possessions. In the preliminary routine of offering the 58 separate parcels, a few lots were knocked down to the banking group or outsiders. But when the auctioneer put up the securities in four big blocks Col. Ayres's bids took only two. The other two groups, largely non-Van Sweringen stocks, went to Hallgarten & Co. for $1,582,000. For control of coal mines, street railways, office buildings, suburban developments, trucking companies, a hotel, a department store and Alleghany Corp., through which they run 23,000 mi. of railroads, "O. P." and "M. J." paid $3,121,000.

When friends felicitated him, "O. P." said: "I would rather have paid the bill"-a reference to the $45,000,000 lost by the bankers and remaining as a debt of honor. Assisted through the pack of photographers at the door, he climbed tiredly into his three-year-old Chrysler, was driven off slumped down in the corner of the rear seat, chin deep in his hand.

Empire's Heirs  TIME Magazine Dec. 14, 1936

Filed in Cleveland's probate court last week was an estimate of the estate of Oris Paxton Van Sweringen, elder of the legendary bachelor brothers whose joint holdings in real estate and 23,000 miles of railroads before Depression were worth $100,000,000. The value of the estate was placed at some $700,000, most of it in life insurance. Brother Mantis James Van Sweringen, who died last year, left only $3,067.85. In fortune if not in fame the Van Sweringens at the time of their deaths were just about where they started 20 years ago when they stepped from real estate into railroading.

C&O Map

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_015_c&o_route_map.jpg

C&O Ad

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/graphics/0798_05.jpg

Newport News postcard

http://www.papersearch.com/ebay/jay13-21.JPG

George Washington at Alexandria 1941

http://www.piedmontsub.com/graphics/WashSubC&OGW.jpg

George Washington at Richmond 1936

http://www.piedmontsub.com/graphics/RichmondGWatMainStreetSta.jpg

Triple crossing at Richmond 1950s

http://www.piedmontsub.com/graphics/RichmondVA3cross.jpg

http://richmondthenandnow.com/Images/3-trains.jpg

Louisville Central Station 1912

http://library.louisville.edu/ekstrom/special/moi/CS_007010.jpg

Louisville Central Station 1955

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/019_2.jpg.54845.jpg

Clifton Forge 1958

http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/drake/full/DR082.JPG

Clifton Forge 1967

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/r/rn2-363.jpg.16256.jpg

Clifton Forge 1969

http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rr0137.jpg.64189.jpg

Staunton 1970

http://67.15.20.45/images/c/CO70091802w.jpg.58076.jpg

Plymouth, MI 1964

http://67.15.20.45/images/c/co4523best.jpg.64727.jpg

Paintsville, Kentucky 1962

http://67.15.20.45/images/c/CO9080.jpg.28693.jpg

Handley, WV

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/h/handley08b.jpg.30711.jpg

Some encore pics

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_021_c&o_2-6-6-6_allegheny_thurmond_wv_1955.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_020_c&o_2_emd_gp9_coal_train_quinnimont_wv_1965.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_023_c&o_a-b-a_cab-booster-cab_fostoria_oh_1961.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_019_c&o_sportsman_train_oct_1967.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_024_c&o_train_ferry_badger_milwaukee_wi_1976.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_025_c&o_george_washington_cincinnati_oh_1965.jpg

http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr5_013_c&o_chesapeake_&_ohio_railroad.jpg

Mike
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:20 AM

 Tuesday Theme for the Day!


Now arriving on track #1 .....
Railroads from Yesteryear!
Number Two

Initially Posted on Page 234 of the original Thread



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

Chesapeake and Ohio Railway



Locale: District of Columbia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wisconsin

Reporting marks: CO

Dates of operation: 1869 - 1972

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Cleveland, Ohio

The Chesapeake and Ohio Railway (C&O) was a Class I railroad formed in 1869 in Virginia from many smaller railroads begun in the 19th century. Tapping the coal reserves of West Virginia, it formed the basis for the City of Newport News and the coal piers on Hampton Roads, and forged a rail link to the midwest, eventually reaching Columbus, Cincinnati, and Toledo in Ohio and Chicago, Illinois.

Headquartered in Cleveland, Ohio, USA, in 1972, it became part of the Chessie System, along with the Baltimore and Ohio and Western Maryland Railway. In 1980, the Chessie system combined with Seaboard Coast Line Industries to form CSX Corporation, which by 1987 had merged all its railroad subsidiaries into CSX Transportation, one of seven Class I railroads operating in North America at the beginning of the 21st century.

The city of Huntington, West Virginia is named for one of its early leaders, Collis P. Huntington.


Early history, Crozet, and crossing the Blue Ridge Mountains

The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway traces its origin to the Louisa Railroad of Louisa County, Virginia, begun in 1836, and the James River & Kanawha Canal Company, also begun in Virginia in 1785. The C&O of the 1950s and 1960s at its peak before the first modern merger, was the product of about 150 smaller lines that had been incorporated into the system over time.

By 1850 the Louisa Railroad had been built east to Richmond and west to Charlottesville, and in keeping with its new and larger vision, was renamed the Virginia Central Railroad. The Commonwealth of Virginia, always keen to help with "internal improvements" not only owned a portion of Virginia Central stock, but incorporated and financed the Blue Ridge Railroad to accompli***he hard and expensive task of crossing the first mountain barrier to the west. Under the leadership of the great early civil engineer Claudius Crozet, the Blue Ridge RR built over the mountains, using four tunnels, including the 4,263-foot Blue Ridge Tunnel at the top of the pass, then one of the longest tunnels in the world.

While the Blue Ridge was being breached, Virginia Central was building westward from the west foot of the mountains, across the Great Valley of Virginia (The Shenandoah Valley), and the Shenandoah range (Great North Mountain), reaching a point known as Jackson's River Station, at the foot of the Alleghany Mountains (note that in Virginia Alleghany is spelled with an "a"), in 1856. This is the site that would be called Clifton Forge later.

To finish its line across the mountainous territory of the Alleghany Plateau (known in old Virginia as the "Transmountaine"), the Commonwealth again chartered a state-subsidized railroad called the Covington and Ohio Railroad. This company completed important grading work on the Alleghany grade and did considerable work on numerous tunnels over the mountains and in the west. It also did a good deal of roadway work around Charleston on the Kanawha River. Then the American Civil War intervened, and work was stopped on the westward expansion.

C & O predecessors during the Civil War

During the Civil War the Virginia Central Railroad was one of the Confederacy's most important lines, carrying food from the Shenandoah region to Richmond, and ferrying troops and supplies back and forth as the campaigns surrounded its tracks frequently. It had an important connection with the Orange and Alexandria Railroad at Gordonsville, Virginia. On more than one occasion, the Virginia Central was used in actual tactical operations, transporting troops directly to the battlefield. But, it was a prime target for Federal armies, and by the end of the war had only about five miles of track still in operation, and $40 in gold in its treasury.

Ellis P. Huntington links the tidewater of Virginia with the Ohio Valley

Following the war, Virginia Central officials, led by company president Williams Carter Wickham, realized that they would have to get capital to rebuild from outside the economically devastated South, and attempted to attract British interests, without success. Finally, they succeeded in getting Collis P. Huntington of New York, interested in the line. He is, of course, the same Huntington that was one of the "Big Four" involved in building the Central Pacific portion of the Transcontinental Railroad, which was at this time just reaching completion. Huntington had a vision of a true transcontinental that would go from sea to sea under one operating management, and decided that the Virginia Central might be the eastern link to this system.

Huntington supplied the Virginians with the money needed to complete the line to the Ohio River, through what was now the new state of West Virginia. The old Covington & Ohio's properties were conveyed to them [Note: the name was Railroad at this time ... it will be changed later to Railway] in keeping with its new mission of linking the Tidewater coast of Virginia with the "Western Waters." this was the old dream of the "Great Connection" which had been current in Virginia since Colonial times.

On July 1, 1867 the C&O was completed nine miles from Jackson's River Station to the town of Covington, seat of Alleghany County, Virginia. By 1869, it had crossed Alleghany Mountain, using much of the tunneling and roadway work done by the Covington & Ohio before the war, and was running to the great mineral springs resort at White Sulphur Springs, now in Greenbrier County, West Virginia. Here, stagecoach connections were made for Charleston and the navigation on the Kanawha River (and thus water transportation on the whole Ohio/Mississippi system).

During 1869-1873 the hard work of building through West Virginia was done with large crews working from the new city of Huntington on the Ohio River and White Sulphur (much as the UP and CP had done in the transcontinental work), and the line was com

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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"Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains!
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:10 AM

Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/

G'day Gents!

Tuesday at the Saloon by the Siding and time for breakfast! Check out the Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast and while you're at it, don't forget The Mentor Village Bakery case selections along with a freshly ground ‘n brewed mug of cofee to begin the day! Yeah!! [yeah]

Surely thought I'd ‘skip' this morning Post as Monday was one of those DAZE - hardly a person in sight during daylight. THEN all of a sudden, once it got dark . . . . Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

REPEAT: This is going to be a tough week, as there should be some absences along the way. Just a head's up to those who actually read these morning Posts - it's up to YOU to keep this going! Thumbs Up [tup]

Definintely in need of some early MORNING and MID-DAY help on FRIDAY! Any takers Question [?] Question [?] Question [?]

The Theme for the Day is Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)! Yeah!! [yeah]

 

Customer ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):

Pete at 7:45 PM yesterday: Better late than never, but Ruth left at 5 PM!! <grin>

Glad the Amtrak tix arrived . . . Wish we were "booked" aboard the Budd cars rather than those Censored [censored] Renaissance cars for the Halifax trip. <groan> . . . Mechanical bull story will be told at the Rendezvous in St. Louis! Remind me. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Fine inclusive ‘n informative Post! Round(s) appreciated too! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Doug at 8:40 PM yesterday: The barn weevil made it "in," so all's right with the world! Yeah!! [yeah] . . . Quarters ‘n round much appreciated! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Nothing like a "groaner" to cap off the evening! <ugh> Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

 

Rob at 8:46 PM ‘n 9:00 PM yesterday: Just when you thought it was safe to venture outside in the dark, there is Count Robulla! <arrrggghhh> Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

You struck a chord with me regarding home ‘puters and doing "stuff." I've been spending far too much time trying to figure out what the problems are with our desktop PC. Fortunately with the laptop, I'm still able to communicate. But somehow, some way I've wound up with "corrupted" files and it's a nightmare trying to figure out how to locate ‘em and so on. <ugh> Made a huge mistake in trying to clean the "registry" and I've got more on my plate than I wish to eat! <groan> This kinda stuff happened about 6 years ago and I wound up buying a new ‘puter it was THAT bad. Hope your issues have been easier to settle . . .

Figured that Canadian War Museum link would get you going - as it sure did with us. If you hear of any organized effort underway to turn that situation about, please let us know. Some (including us) want to contribute - Emails would be fine!! ‘nuf said . . .

Great idea for next Tuesday's Theme for the Day - why not simply make it ALL Canadian railways Question [?] Yeah!! [yeah] Many thanx for coming through with a suggestion for us! Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

Appreciate the inclusive Post, kind words ‘n "freebie" drink! Wow!! [wow] <grin> You STILL owe me those Labatt Blues . . . Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

 

James at 8:56 PM yesterday: You couldn't have picked a better day to rejoin the group as things have been really slow lately . . . Regarding those B&O domes with the floodlights - as the ads from past Pages say - they illuminate the countryside for "effect." Undoubtedly a great experience for those fortunate enough to be up in the dome! "Good eye!" Thumbs Up [tup] Thumbs Up [tup]

So you too come from a railroading family, eh Question [?] That speaks volumes for he intensity you have for the subject! That makes you, Lars ‘n Mike that we know about with family RR ties. Thumbs Up [tup]

One thing about this bunch at the bar, you can't "hide" as someone is ALWAYS watching! <grin>

Appreciate the visit and dialogue! Thumbs Up [tup]

 

Eric at 12:10 AM today: Really doesn't speak well for a society where even the homeless are preyed upon and for what? Having lived in large cities of this country, the plight of those far less fortunate is eye opening and something every American should not turn away from. SoapBox [soapbox]

Phoenix in the summer is as close to Hades on Earth as anywhere I know! <ugh> Yeah, go ahead ‘n tell me it's "dry heat." I recall walking outside of an air conditioned building in your desert city and becoming so overcome by the blast furnace of heat that I thought for sure I'd melt. Not for Moi, thank you! Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

That steamer is certainly interesting. Is it just the angle of the Pix or is the tender part of the configuration? Also the drivers really appear to be spaced farther apart than what I'm accustomed to seeing. The men who made those machines made ‘em to last, eh

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted by EricX2000 on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:10 AM

Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!

Leon, a ham sandwich would be perfect! No tomato slices!

A quick stop at the Bar by the siding. Mondays are always Mondays except when they are Sundays! I helped a homeless guy tonight that came walking up to me when I was outside my parked car. He asked if I could help him, he had been robbed and stabbed in his back! After a few minutes a fire engine, three police cars and an ambulance arrived. Quick response indeed.

Tom –  Oh, I believe you, that long distance travel is comfortable in the winter (and summer).Yeah!! [yeah] What I don’t like is the cold weather if I want to step outside.Sigh [sigh] And, as I am sure I have said before, I have been fighting snow and ice way too many times as an engineer and I try to stay away from it as much as I can. That is why Phoenix is the perfect place for me, at least in the winter.Smile [:)] I learned about the heating system in the RDCs from an Amtrak engineer. I hope to get a chance to ride one sometime in the future.

I’ll remember about that book!

12 1/2 hours from St. Paul to Winnipeg! With connection to and from Chicago.Thumbs Up [tup]

DL –  Congratulations for the 1,000th post!!!Bow [bow]

I understand your frustration about the cell phone lady in the quiet car! And that other guy. How did mankind manage to survive before the cell phones arrived?

30 minutes down! Not good at all. What is max. speed allowed for those HSTs? 125 mph? You obviously had a perfect room, at lest the location of it!
That tank locomotive looks kind of Swedish to me.Smile [:)] I know it isn’t but the design is very similar. Thanks for the report!!Thumbs Up [tup]

Lars –  Same here, ”Our Place” is the only reason I am here.Yeah!! [yeah] Are you packed yet? Your trip is coming up very soon.Smile [:)]

Pete –  I am sure you are correct about the equipment in the signalbox!Thumbs Up [tup] It must be a much easier job for the signalman (from a physical point of view) today when the semaphores are gone.

Is 76020 the only electric of its class today? Question [?]

Doug –  Thanks for the round!

Rob –  The good news about the streetcar in Tucson is that the City has decided to extend the line and run streetcars every day year round! In other words, Tucson will get a beginning of a real streetcar system!Smile [:)]

James –  Welcome back! Hope everything is okay!Smile [:)]


Still in service 1968!

 

Eric 

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Posted by trolleyboy on Monday, April 23, 2007 9:00 PM

Evening again Leon another round of Keith's if you would be so kind sir. Well finally got to read the rest of page 51 couldn't see it for some reason Alien [alien]'s in the forum software again I guess.

DL-Thank's for the rundown on your latest foray by train, an interesting read and some interesting urls to boot thank you.Noting your mention of the debris from the London commuters,brings to mind the "stuff" I've been noticing lying around on the intercity Budd (HEP) cars VIA uses on our Ontario lines, even the LRC stock's been looking a tad messy latley. The good news I suppose is that the trains in and out of Brantford to points east and west all seem to be quite full and well travelled. I see that Tom's got you caught up on the Hudson Bay equipment,I too find the VIA site a bit on the "unfriendly" side.Congrats on your making abit of thread history today yourself Thumbs Up [tup]

Rob

 

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Posted by CMSTPP on Monday, April 23, 2007 8:56 PM

G-day Tom and all present!

Leon- Good to see you after sometime off here. Could I get a coffee along with a sandwich. Thanks! And a round for any who care to join in.Thumbs Up [tup]

Oh boy... I have stories from Wazooo from these last couple of weeks. I have been having relatives and family coming. Just a non stop motel here at the homestead.Sigh [sigh]

Anyway on to some acknowledgements. I will start at page 51 and work my way back.

BTW: Happy third birthday to the bar. I think if I'm not mistaken, that I have been here since September. That's pretty good.

Dl- Thanks for the URL to the passenger train. It sounds like though the train was a bit of a garbage heep.Dead [xx(] Ya.. those cell phones. I can't stand people who do that. It's really annoying.Thumbs Down [tdn] But life must go on as I always say. When you said 10 minutes late... That's a pretty good compared to Amtrak. There usually running an hour late. You'll expect them at 1 am and at 2 am they finally arrive. But hey, I thinks it's a great ride.. the food could use a little more attending too but outside of that it's pretty good.Thumbs Up [tup]

Saw your other links and some of the trackage blew me away.Shock [:O] That is a lot of track in a small area and very complicated. Also some great looking locomotives. Everything looked pretty good. Thanks for sharing. Also congrats on the 1000th post.Thumbs Up [tup]

Lars- You probably noticed me around. I'm not afraid to admit it but I was only on for about 10 to 20 minutes at a time. I tried to check out a few of the other sites along with this one with the time that permitted me. And yes I did post a couple but nothing anything big. A couple sentences hear and there. But these last couple of weeks have been hard for me and the family.Sad [:(] So I tried to get away from it awhile by spending the time on the forums. Things have slowed down and I am once again able to post and enjoy myself and hopefully for awhile too.Thumbs Up [tup] Just my My 2 cents [2c].

Anyway, I noticed some of your bookcovers. That RDC bookcover caught my eye the most, but the B&O covers were also really nice. Thanks for sharing. They all look really good. I was impressed.Thumbs Up [tup]

Tom- I was looking at some of your posts and notice a couple of really nice pictures of some passenger dome cars. I noticed on the B&O Dome that there were a bunch of search lights sitting on the top end of the car. What were those used forQuestion [?] Also some great pictures of that Via rail dome car and it's train. I would indeed like to ride that dome car.

    I can remember way back in the 90s sometime when the Wisconsin Central (Now owned by CN) had a special passenger train that ran for all the employees and there family. Since my dad was the engineer on it we got special seats in a dome car. I can remember riding up in the dome traveling at 50 mph down the rails. It was a pretty good experience. My mom and I did get some video of the ride so maybe I should figure out how to load that on to the computer. I don't remember what dome car it was. All I know was that it was a cool ride.Thumbs Up [tup] I see the C&O is theme of the day tomorrow. I will certainly be there with pictures and more acknowledgements. I also noticed Ruth has decided to go on vacation....lucky... what.. I didn't say anything.Big Smile [:D]

Happy railroadingLaugh [(-D]

James

 

The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm
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Posted by trolleyboy on Monday, April 23, 2007 8:46 PM

Good evening Leon. A frosty Keith's and a round for those who are still standing, Ice packs for those who aren't Frostbite Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg] Well what can I say, don't try to add memory to your computer at home folks Thumbs Down [tdn] at least my computer whiz friend got me working again, miss a couple days ( daze ) miss alot.At least it seems that we had a reasonably good end to the week here at the tavern by the tracks.

Tom-Thanks for putting forward that story on the musuem. I'm so teed and po'd about that that you could not believe, neither could my member of parliament who got it from both barrels by moi. He was in town probably wished he wasn't. At least he understood where I and the bulk of alot of other's in town were comming from, he said both his email inbox and answering machine were full.He said all the usual politicl things about getting to the bottom of it,but somehow I have my doubts Thumbs Down [tdn]. Liked the final round up on the B&O drumheads et all from you sir another good week here infowise yesieree bob! Nice to see the VIA shots again as well Thumbs Up [tup]

Lars-Congrats on the winning post sir,lucky guy another free usage of the penthouse suite.Position has it's privilagesWink [;)]Great to see those reruns of the books again.I have to aggree with you I would think that Tom indeed does have a third of those posts under his belt. The least the rest of us can do is buy the man a drink Thumbs Up [tup]

Pete-Some interesting shots of museum pieces and signal boxes. that signal tower almost looks like a kit one could can buy from Pola !Good luck on K cities light rail, hopefully it gets built on time and on budget. coarse had the farsited people in 1957 left well enough alone you wouldn't be voting the funds to build what was probably once already there. same stroy imn sooo many other cities and counties in these two countries.SoapBox [soapbox]It would be nice to buy that hobby shop. Imagine the trouble"fun" the three of us could have running a shop together. Shock [:O]

Eric-Some interesting pics from you the last couple of days as well. Nice shot of that former Japanease tramcar. Nice to see a musuem running on city streets,not cheap unfortunatly but still nice to see. Thumbs Up [tup]

BK n Doug-Great to see the two of you guys and Lydia in to wind out the B&O fest of this past week.

CM3-Sir Shane did not disapoint. Lots o good B&O info from the coal fields. i'm looking forward to your C&O stuff tomorrow.

Tom-What say we do the CN/CNR and it's sister-roads next week. Should be good for a giggle. I may have some info I can shed on that topic.Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Rob

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    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 23, 2007 8:40 PM

Evening Tom and friends! I'll have a bottomless draught, toss a few Michigan quarters in the coal scuttle, and buy a round for the house. Many apologies for not being around, but I've literally been horsing around the last 3 days, and this is just plain going to be a busy week for more of that. Congrat's to DL for the milestone post. Let's hope we more than double that in the next 2 years. Great to see manager Lars and Pete today, keeping the information flowing. I'll see what I can do in the C&O department for tomorrow, and leave you with ...

Blush [:I]

The landlord of a pub, is just locking up, when there's a ring on the doorbell. He opens the door, and there's a snail sitting there. "What do you want?" asks the landlord. The snail replies that he wants a drink. "Go away, we're closed, and we don't serve snails anyway". The snail pleads and pleads with the barman to give it a drink, at which the landlord gets fed up, kicks the snail and slams the door. ..... Exactly one year later, he's locking up again, and there's a ring at the doorbell. The landlord opens the door, and looks down to see a snail sitting there. "What do you want" says the landlord. "What did you do that for" says the snail. Blush [:I]

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Posted by pwolfe on Monday, April 23, 2007 7:45 PM

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Timmy Taylor's Golden Best please RUTH.Thumbs Up [tup]

ERIC I,m afraid I do not know what is in the signalbox at CanterburyAshamed [*^_^*]. It probably would be a new panel to work the colour signals, although in some cases when colorlight signals were connected to an old signal box, the lights were worked by the levers that used to operate the semaphore signals The handles of the levers were cut down to remind the signal man that it was a colour light and would not require a good pull that a semaphore signal wouldShock [:O].

Thanks for the info on the German Diesel-Hydraulic tractor and it is good to know the 2-6-0 old loco was saved.Approve [^]Thumbs Up [tup]

As far as I can tell 76020 was withdrawn around 1977 /8 and was kept as she was still one of the class that had not been fitted with air brakes or multiple working, so she was near to her original condition.

Good photo of the Japanese Streetcar.Thumbs Up [tup]

DL Thanks for the report on your journey to Leeds and KeighleyThumbs Up [tup]. It is amazing the number of people who think the Quiet Coach does not apply to themThumbs Down [tdn]. I wonder how many times the conductor passed through the car you was inQuestion [?], but there again I have seen conductors completely ignore someone using a mobile phone in a quite coach.Disapprove [V]Thumbs Down [tdn]

That is a great map of the Leeds linesApprove [^]Thumbs Up [tup], which was very complicated and as changed over the yearsYeah!! [yeah].  With some of today's roads on the map you can see where the old lines wereThumbs Up [tup]. On the L&NWR line from Leeds jnc to Farnley station I think that is part of the line that did, until fairly recent times was used to connect to the Great Northern line. This was used by most trains departing Leeds for London, the viaduct is still there but I think the only lines left on it are at the Leeds station end where it can stable a class 91 and a Mark IV set.

Some of the route into the GN Central station can still be seen and there is still a GN roundhouse visible by the line to Keighley near the site of the Holbeck stations.Thumbs Up [tup]

I will send the map to Alan thanks.Thumbs Up [tup]

Glad you enjoyed the K&WVR.Yeah!! [yeah] It is a great line, was there any news of when the   Jubilee might be steamed againQuestion [?]. Thanks for the links to the K&WVRThumbs Up [tup], that is quite a rare carriage, with a corridor and lavatory inside but no connection to other cars. The more common type, I believe were the suburban cars with separate seating bays but no corridor like the K&WVR car in this link.

  http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1971

I remember traveling in one of these on the Ex Midland Railway line between Rugby and Leicester Midland stations (this line closed in 1963). These cars were also used for fairly long distant excursions to the seaside, with no lavatory not the best cars to be in.Shock [:O]

Yes it was in The Railway Children film that the Fleece was mentionedThumbs Up [tup], I believe some of the actors and crew from the film visited the pub while they was on location thereApprove [^]

The Ivatt tank loco is ideal for the line and looks great in its BR liveryApprove [^]Thumbs Up [tup]. At Rugby there were two of this type fitted for Push- Pull for working the Rugby to Leamington line.

Looking forward to the next installment of your trip.Thumbs Up [tup]

Bow [bow]CONGRATULAIONS ON BEING THE ONE TO HAVE THE 1,000TH POST AT THE NEW OUR PLACE.Bow [bow]Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

LARS Thanks for the kind wordsThumbs Up [tup]. I watched the Detroit vs. Calgary hockey game Saturday. I could not believe the Calgary goalie Shock [:O]I see he was on the ice for just 18 secondsWow!! [wow]. Perhaps you can explain to meThumbs Up [tup], I guess he was sent off and not put in the penalty box, if a player is sent off, does his team have to play the rest of the game a man short as in soccer. Question [?]Confused [%-)]I know hockey is a very tough game but what he done seemed to shock everyone.

As you say May is just around the corner and it will be good to have DAVE back homeYeah!! [yeah].

TOM It was great to see the Ocean and the Revelstoke cars on the trip to Halifax encoreThumbs Up [tup]<div style=

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