A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!

[siberianmo]

G'day!

VIA Rail is my favorite passenger experience in modern times. Have traveled across Canada four times (two round trips) and dozens of trips to and from the Maritimes (Halifax) from Montreal. Corridor trains too from Toronto & Montreal to hither 'n yon . . . just love it!

Check this out . . . .

Courtesy: www.viarail.ca


Later! [tup]


Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Not much going on 'round here, so I'll be dropping off some VIA RaIl Pix throughout the day . . . .


Courtesy: www.viarail.ca


Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

posted First at the bar
Significant events in Canadian RR History during the month of April.


Caveat: Much of the information appearing was gathered from internet sources, with credit to “Colin Churcher’s Railway Pages” at http://www.railways.incanada.net/


*April 26th, 1875: The first scheduled train makes its inaugural run from Charlottetown to Georgetown on the Prince Edward Island Railway.


*April 1885: Second Northwest (Riel) Rebellion. Van Horne moves troops to the west through northern Ontario entirely over Canadian soil. This efficient military movement demonstrated the advantages to Canada of a completed transcontinental railway and prompted the government to grant temporary aid to the CP to enable completion of the line.


*April 7th, 1914: Grand Trunk Pacific Railway main line is completed between Winnipeg, Melville, Edmonton, Jasper and Prince Rupert. The last spike was driven at a location 93 miles west of Prince George, BC.


*April 2nd, 1933: CN & CP pool certain passenger services as a result of the Canadian National Canadian Pacific Act, 1933.


*April 21st, 1933: London, Midland and Scottish Railway (UK) 4-6-0 steam locomotive Royal Scot arrives in Montreal with eight passenger cars en route to the Century of Progress Exhibition in Chicago.


*April 1st, 1949: Newfoundland becomes the tenth province of Canada and the Newfoundland Railway becomes part of the Canadian National system. This narrow gauge system had been operated by the island government since 1923.


*April 1953: Canadian National inaugurates its Museum Train with three steam locomotives and six cars.


*April 25th, 1955: Canadian Pacific inaugurates its new stainless steel, scenic-domed transcontinental passenger train "The Canadian" between Montreal/Toronto and Vancouver.


* April 25th, 1960: Locomotive number 6043 makes the last scheduled run of a steam locomotive on Canadian National on train 76 between The Pas and Winnipeg.


* April 21st, 1970: Canadian Pacific unveils Canada's first double-deck passenger train comprising nine air-conditioned cars built by Canadian Vickers Limited at a cost of $2.8 million. The cars went into operation April 27 on the Montreal Lakeshore suburban service.


* April 30th, 1970: The first CP coal unit train, with 88 cars and carrying more than 9,000 tons of coking coal destined to Japan, arrives at Roberts Bank superport after a 700-mile run from Sparwood, B.C.


* April 1st, 1972: Pacific Great Eastern Railway makes a name change to British Columbia Railway.


* April 22nd, 1976: The turbo train achieves the Canadian rail speed record of 140.6 mph.


* April 18th, 1977: The Hall Commission Report on Grain Handling and Transportation is published. This recommends limited branch line abandonment on the prairies.


* April 30th, 1985: CN and CP take over the Canada Southern (Michigan Central/New York Central/Penn Central/Conrail) line through southern Ontario.


* April 13th, 1992: The Goderich Exeter Railway begins operations over the former CN line between Stratford Junction and Goderich and from Clinton Junction to Centralia in Ontario.


* April 1st, 1996: Last train travels the full distance of the former Canada Southern route between Detroit and Buffalo.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

Did you miss the previous three “Significant events in Canadian RR History”[?] Click the URL:

(1) January, page 215:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=215&TOPIC_ID=35270

(2) February, page 243:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=243&TOPIC_ID=35270

(3) March, page 271:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=271&TOPIC_ID=35270



waving flags credit to:www.3DFlags.com

[passengerfan]

Sorry Tom I did overlook your birthday on the earlier post. It was 5:30 AM my time and that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Congats Tom Happy Birthday and may you have many more/

Sorry I have to miss the Bday bash on the other forum today but Civic duty calls. I will be out all evening fighting with city politicians and other civic nimcompoops at a special meeting.

Anyway i promised something for this forum today and it follows.

STREAMLINED OBSERVATIONS
OF THE
UNITED STATES
&
CANADA

By Al


Introduction

With the dawn of the streamline era in North America came the birth of the streamlined observation, a car type that was to grace the rear of most of the finest streamliners in the land. With few exceptions every major named streamlined train in North America featured a streamlined observation bringing up the markers.
The streamlined Observations were those cars that were designed for end of train operation giving a streamlined appearance in most cases to the end of the streamliner. They came in Blind end with no windows to view to the rear. Blunt or squared off end that came with windows and a center door with window as well, and also those with only a small emergency door in the rear with window such as Southern Pacific postwar. Many of the blunt end Observations were fitted with a diaphragm to enable them to be used mid-train if necessary. Many of the Observations had swallow-tailed or rounded ends; these were the most pleasing to the eye.
And in the case of the Milwaukee Road who built the majority of their streamlined Observations they were unique to that road the prewar Beavertails and postwar Skytop Observations.
Prior to the streamline era heavyweight observations came in three basic types Open Platform, Solarium end Observations and Western railroads such as the CNR, CPR, CMSTP&P, D&RGW, NP and SP offered the Mountain Observation.
This latter type the Mountain Observation resembled nothing more than a conventional heavyweight car with the area from the windows up cut away, an awning like covering supported by lightweight stanchions. Other Mountain Observations resembled a coach in the center section complete with windows and extended length Open Platforms at either end of this center section. In the case of the Canadian Pacific they installed panes of glass in the roof of the enclosed center section. Most of these Mountain Observations were older cars cut down for this purpose. The Mountain Observations as the name implies were used in the mountainous regions of these roads for daylight operation in the summer months only. Passengers were able to enjoy the magnificent mountain scenery that these cars provided up close and personal. The Milwaukee Road was still operating Mountain Observations through their Electrified territories in daylight hours as recently as the summer of 1952 in the secondary COLUMBIAN trains that operated between Seattle - Tacoma and Chicago. The two major Canadian Roads the Canadian National and Canadian Pacific were both operating Mountain Observations as late as 1954 on their transcontinental trains in the mountains of Alberta and British Columbia.
The heavyweight Solarium Observations were popular with railroads operating in colder climates and were assigned to trains on a year round basis. The rear quarter of the Solarium Observations was known as the sunroom. The two most popular types had either two large windows or three large windows down each side at the sunroom end. Those Solariums with six seats in the sunrooms were those cars with two large windows on each side at the rear of the car. While those with three large windows on each side at the rear denoted those cars with seating for eight in the sunroom or solarium end. Most Solarium Observations were fitted with a diaphragm at the sunroom end as well. The rear of these cars resembled a regular passenger car except for the fact they had a door in the center with a large glass pane and a large window on either side of this door for passengers in the sunroom to see to the rear.
The heavyweight Open Platform Observation as the name implies provided an Open Platform for passengers to enjoy the passing scenery from. Some of these platforms were not meant for passengers to enjoy in the case of one railroad whose Open Platforms measured but 14 inches. Many of the Open Platforms were five or six feet and several extended for eight or even ten feet being recessed into the car sides. Some heavyweight Open Platform Observations featured an upright post in each outside corner attached to the corners of the open platforms to help support the car roof overhang. These types of Open Platform Observations quickly earned the nickname Four Posters for their resemblance to Canopy beds.
Heavyweight Open Platform Observations generally featured a lighted round tail sign with the train's name centered on the brass railing that surrounded the open platform. The open Platforms were equipped with brass gates in the railing to permit one to descend to the ground or a center gate in the rear that permitted access to a trailing car. It was on this center gate that the lighted tail sign was most often mounted.
The CB&Q carried two lighted square tail signs on either side of the Open Platforms center gate hung from the Brass railing. New York Central preferred square tail signs hung from the brass railing of many of their finest trains, in the case of their SOUTHWEST LIMITED they hung oval tail signs from the brass railing.
Rival PRR preferred tail-signs in the shape of their Keystone herald.
While heavyweight Solarium Observations generally featured two lighted tail signs one under each rear facing window one proclaiming the operating Railroad the other the train name (CB&Q). Of course there would be exceptions to those placements, for instance the DL&W LACKAWANNA LIMITED carried the trains lighted drumhead sign hanging from the Solarium Observations safety gate.
Two cars built with minuscule Open Platforms later had diaphragms installed with the brass railing remaining intact on either side of this addition, these two cars were the COMMANDER - IN - CHIEF and AMERICAN REVOLUTION bringing up the markers of the C&O GEORGE WASHINGTONS.
Another feature found on many of the heavyweight Open Platform Observations was the overhanging awning or sunshade attached to the Open Platform overhanging roof. This was generally made of Canvas and painted; the reason for painting the canvas was to stiffen it to prevent flapping in the wind and painted the canvas was much easier to keep clean. Even when painted they were generally replaced about twice a year. Awnings of the longer varieties were usually given wooden stiffeners on the pull up type and steel stiffeners on the fixed type to hold them in place against the wind.
In the case of Canadian Pacific, Missouri Pacific, Northern Pacific, Union Pacific and Wabash some of there large heavyweight Open Platform Observations featured an enormous round dome light for the enjoyment of passengers on warm summer evenings.
Milwaukee Road heavyweight Open Platform Observations assigned to that roads OLYMPIAN featured a roof-mounted spotlight that was operated from the open platform, as did those heavyweight Observations operated on the Northern Pacific NORTH COAST LIMITED at one time. Great Northern featured similar spotlights on the roofs of their heavyweight Solarium Observations operated on the rear of the EMPIRE BUILDER.
Most railroads heavyweight Open Platform Observations had a center door permitting passenger to go from the inside of the car to the Open Platform with windows of equal size on either side of this center door. The Great Northern, Louisiana & Arkansas, Maine Central, Northern Pacific and Southern Pacific had an access door mounted on the right side when viewed from the cars interior and a very large picture window occupied the left side next to the door.
At least one railroad the Missouri Pacific experimented with a dust catcher to prevent passengers enjoying the Open Platform from being covered by dust. The MP attached a square frame the width of the platform with the opening covered with canvas mounted to either side of the coupler poling pockets. Two poles were attached to the top of the brass railing and extended out from the rear to the far side of this frame covered in canvas approximately six feet. The devise took two men less than five minutes to install or remove. No record exists as to whether it was successful or not. Dust and cinders were things one had to contend with when riding the open platforms. When operating at slower speeds in the mountains or terminal trackage riding the open platforms was a pleasant experience, but few passengers except young railfan braved the open platforms at most other times. I know of only one young railfan foolish enough to brave riding the open platform between Seattle and Spokane in February 1958 on the CASCADIAN when a heavyweight Open Platform was substituting for the train's regular car. After completion of that eastward trip he wondered if warmth and feelings would ever return to his numbed body.
Interiors of heavyweight Observations came in a wide variety ranging from Coach, Dining, Parlor, Lounge and Sleeper, also combinations of the previously mentioned types. Some of these cars also were equipped with Barber Shops, Buffets, Showers, Card Rooms, Libraries, Soda Fountains and Valet facilities.
The heavyweight Observations featured Clerestory, Rounded, flat, and even the Harriman style roofs.
Heavyweight Observations were carried on the rear of not only railroads premier passenger trains, but also most secondary trains and even many local trains. Many of these latter trains carried a Dining - Coach Observation or Coach Dining Lounge Observation.
Many of the heavyweight Solarium Observations were equipped with Diaphragms on the rear as were a few of the Open Platform Observations. The latter with diaphragms looked quite ghastly. With few exceptions the railroads during the heavyweight era realized that Observations belonged on the rear with no cars after them. Besides the railroad needed someplace to hang there lighted drumhead signs from so the world would know what train was passing and what railroad owned that train.
With the coming of the streamliners came an infinite variety of lightweight streamlined Observations. Lightweight Streamlined Observations came in Blind end, Square end or blunt end, round end, Swallow Tail or Taper end, Sloping or Beavertail end and Open Platform ends.
Interiors of lightweight streamlined Observations were configured in Coach, Coach Lounge, Coach Parlor Lounge, Coach Buffet Lounge, Sleeper, Sleeper Lounge, Sleeper Buffet Lounge, Parlor Lounge, Tavern Bar Lounge, Tavern Bar Buffet Lounge, Dining Lounge, Dining Parlor Lounge, Dormitory Sleeper Buffet Lounge, Dome Sleeper Buffet Lounge, Dome Sleeper, Dome Parlor Lounge, Dome Coach Lounge, and yes even one conversion to a Coach - Baggage configuration.
The four major North American Car manufacturers and one foreign Car manufacturer constructed lightweight Streamlined Observations. The Pullman Standard Company constructed the greatest number of lightweight streamlined Observations over 170 between the 1930’s and mid 1950’s. The Budd Company of Philadelphia came in second with over 140 including the final two built in 1956 for the CB&Q DENVER ZEPHYRS. American Car & Foundry produced 44 for U.S. Railroads. St. Louis Car Company built 7 in total for two different Electric Interurban Railroads. Swiss Manufacturer Schindler constructed three for the National De Mexico for the AZTEC EAGLE train sets.
Even though Pullman Standard may have constructed the greatest number of lightweight streamlined Observations rival Budd produced the greatest variety.
Twelve Railroads either built there own lightweight streamlined Observations or rebuilt and streamlined heavyweight cars to streamlined Observations. Those railroads were the following:

Baltimore & Ohio

Canadian National

Canadian Pacific

Chicago Indianapolis & Louisville

Chicago Great Western

Great Northern

Gulf Mobile & Ohio

Illinois Central

Milwaukee Road

Missouri - Kansas - Texas

New York Central

Pennsylvania

Some of the those roads did the streamlining themselves while others like the B&O in some instances and the GM&O had Pullman streamline heavyweight cars to streamlined Observations.
Pullman converted many lightweight streamlined Observations to straight coaches as their usefulness as Observations waned due to the increased costs of switching etc.
Before the ru***oward streamlining occurred in the mid-1930s there were two notable early examples that are worth mentioning.
The first of these occurred on the B&O in 1900 when the experimental Adam's Windsplitter was rebuilt from conventional cars of the day into a true streamlined six-car train. Mr. Frederick Upham Adams design for the train included streamlining a locomotive as well something the B&O refused to do. The tender did receive streamlining to match the cars. After about a year of testing in the Baltimore - Washington area the cars were stripped of they're streamlining and returned to regular service. Most streamlined trains that followed thirty and forty years later recognized the contributions to streamlining the Adam's Windsplitter ushered in. This train introduced flush mounted windows with the car sides, full width diaphragms, and flat sheet metal sides. The cars also featured skirting that enclosed the trucks; this last item quickly lost favor with the railroads in the 1930's due to the need for truck maintenance and daily inspections. The last car in the Adam's Windsplitter was an Observation that the rear of tapered to almost a point. There was a narrow door at the very end for emergency exit otherwise it would have come to a point. The Observation of the Adam's Windsplitter was numbered 435.
The second of these early streamlined Observations is credited to the Chicago Great Western for the conversion work done to three McKeen motorcars in 1928 at that roads Oelwein, Iowa shops. Two of the motorcars lost their engines and power trucks in the conversion becoming trailers. The third unit became Electro-Motives first motorcar conversion to a Gasoline Electric complete with 30' Railway Post Office Compartment and Baggage Compartment. The Power unit was assigned the number 1000 and the two trailing cars were 1001 and 1002. The 1002 is the car we are concerned with here. The 1002 emerged from rebuilding with a nicely rounded rear with an emergency door in the center. All of the former round windows the car had been built with were removed, replaced by square windows. Except for the detracting roof mounted ventilators and lack of skirting the car was otherwise quite streamlined.
When one entered car 1002 from car 1001 one would find a small kitchen on your left and Pantry with car heater on the right. Next was a small dining area with one table and four chairs on either side of the center aisle. To the rear of this dining area was a twenty-seat Coach section ten seats either side of the center aisle in five pairs. The first pair of seats on either side of the aisle faced rearward all others faced forward. These seats were not as spartan as those found in car 1001 so by today's airline standards they would be considered business class. Next was a pair of restrooms followed by the cars center entrance doors. Behind the cars center entrance doors was four Pullman sections two on either side of the center aisle. The BLUE BIRD was a day schedule the Pullman sections were for passengers going to and from the famed Mayo Clinic in Rochester. In the rounded Observation end was located thirteen Wicker chairs for the Parlor car patrons of the BLUE BIRD. The entire train was painted in Royal Blue with gold leaf lettering and trim. The BLUE BIRD was inaugurated on a daily round trip between Minneapolis and Rochester beginning January 13, 1929. This early forerunner of streamlined trains that followed fell on hard times with the coming of the great depression. The train was discontinued in 1931.
Texas & Pacific should receive the recognition they are due for the first streamlined stainless steel Observation delivered by Budd in 1933 numbered 150. The train was named the SILVER SLIPPER and the car 150 was the only racially divided Observation ever built in the United States. There were two compartments with seating for 32 each having separate restrooms. The white section was located in the observation end and also provided a twelve seat smoking section. The two-car train was a miserable failure and was soon returned to Budd where it was eventually scrapped. Observation 150 was delivered in 1933 placing it ahead of both the UP M-10000 and CB&Q ZEPHYR 9900 both delivered in 1934. But unlike either of the 1934 trains the 150 was not articulated to the rest of it’s consist.
The next two streamlined Observations to appear brought up the markers of two trains that are generally recognized as America's first truly successful streamlined trains. Both the UP M-10000 later named the CITY OF SALINA and the CB&Q 9900 ZEPHYR later named the PIONEER ZEPHYR were each three car articulated train sets. The last of the three cars in the UP train ended in a Bullet shape with no windows for viewing to the rear so it was referred to as a blind end observation. The Burlington's 9900 ZEPHYRS third car was numbered 570 and featured a swallowtail or tapered end. This car featured windows for viewing to the rear. From these two early streamlined trains would come a building boom, in streamlined passenger trains by railroads from one end of North America to the other and nearly any streamlined train that rated a name required a streamlined Observation for the markers end.
The Tapered or Swallow tailed streamlined Observation soon became the most popular type followed closely by the rounded end Observation. American Car & Foundry, Budd Company, Pullman Standard and St. Louis Car Company offered both the swallowtail and round end Observations.
The seven streamlined Observations built by St. Louis car were for two different Electric Interurban roads The Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee and the Illinois Terminal. Those for the North Shore as it was more popularly known were for two double ended four car articulated trains named the ELECTROLINERS built to operate between Chicago and Milwaukee. They used both third rail and overhead trolley pick-up for power on their daily dashes between Chicago's famed Loop and downtown Milwaukee. The North Shore ELECTROLINERS were bi-directional so turning was unnecessary at terminals. The cab end served as an observation when going in the opposite direction.
Those built for the Illinois Terminal were non-articulated and picked up power from trolley poles. The three Observations built for the Illinois Terminal were Parlor Observations.
The railroads that owned the greatest numbers of streamlined Observations were the Pennsylvania, New York Central, Milwaukee Road, Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, Santa Fe and Burlington.
Those with but a single example of streamlined Observations were the Central Of Georgia, Texas & Pacific and Western Railway of Alabama although some would argue the single example for the latter road was for use in the Southern Railways CRESCENT.
Several railroads owned no lightweight streamlined Observations at all they included Central Railroad of New Jersey, Clinchfield, Delaware & Hudson, Erie, Minneapolis & St. Louis, New York Ontario & Western, Nickel Plate Road, Northern Alberta, Ontario Northland, Pacific Great Eastern, Richmond Fredericksburg & Potomac, Rutland, Soo Line, and Spokane Portland & Seattle. All of the above had owned heavyweight Observations.
The railroad with the greatest number of railroad built or remodeled Observations was the Pennsylvania with sixteen all remodeled or built by the roads famous Altoona, Penn. Shops.
Without a doubt honors for the most interesting streamlined Observations would go to the Milwaukee Road for their Beavertail and Skytop Lounge Observations.
Canadian Nationals only lightweight streamlined Observations purchased new were the only Open Platform cars of this type purchased that were not for Business car use. These two cars BURRARD and BEDFORD featured 7 Compartments Kitchen Lounge and the Open Platform. The cars were assigned to Bankers Specials and other charter work for most of their CN service. The only regular assignment for the cars was in the AFTERNOON RAPIDOS where they served as Executive Club Cars between Montreal and Toronto.
The Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, Chicago Burlington & Quincy, National De Mexico, New York Central, Pennsylvania, Southern Pacific and Union Pacific both owned Stainless Steel and Painted Observations.
The Southern Pacific must hold the record for streamlined Observations in different paint schemes. They had DAYLIGHT Red & Orange, two tone Gray scheme of the CASCADE - LARK - SAN FRANCISCO OVERLAND, Red & Silver of the GOLDEN STATE, Yellow and Gray of the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO, and the Stainless steel with red band above the windows of the SUNSET LIMITED. The Union Pacific's lone corrugated stainless steel Observation was from the GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW. They simply painted the car streamliner colors before assigning it to their Portland - Seattle pool train.
Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe owned only stainless steel Observations they purchased from American Car & Foundry, Budd Company and Pullman Standard.
Budd Company favorite customer Burlington owned Observations from American Car & Foundry and Pullman Standard for service in the GN EMPIRE BUILDER, WESTERN STAR and NP NORTH COAST LIMITED.
By far the honor for the strangest Observation conversion must go to the Rock Island who converted Coach Parlor Lounge Observation 455 MISSOURI into a Coach Baggage car with the Observation end serving as the Baggage end. This car was assigned to the remnant of the former CHOCTAW ROCKET. A Baggage Door was installed in each side just head of the rounded Observation end. The windows around the Observation end remained in place. But only if you were a Baggage Man or pet traveling in a cage would you enjoy the view from the rear of this Observation.
As beautiful as the lightweight streamlined Observations were gracing the rear of the finest passenger trains in the land, the truth was they required extra switching to always keep them in their place on the rear of the trains. This was true for those trains that picked up and set out cars enroute. The lightweight streamlined Observations with the blunt end could be used in mid-train operation if necessary. This was the case with ACL and SAL in their Florida Streamliners that carried two Observations in each consist one mid-train the other on the rear. The Great Northern WESTERN STAR is the only train that carried a beautiful high windowed swallow tailed Observation mid-train. This was after the GN combined the FAST MAIL and WESTERN STAR between St. Paul and Seattle. Working Mail cars were trainlined behind the power followed by the trains Baggage Car, Coaches, Diner, Sleeping Cars and MOUNTAIN suffix Lounge Observation. To the rear of the Observation storage mail cars were trainlined. The reason for this odd arrangement was quite simply the length of the train. If any other order of cars would have been tried it would have required time consuming double station stops. Some of the storage mail cars were set out in route and not having to disconnect the power made for a shorter delay in getting underway again.
Many streamlined Observations lost their distinguishing features altogether and were rebuilt to straight coaches etc. such as some of those for the Great Northern, Santa Fe and Southern Pacific. The Southern Pacific rebuilt at least two lightweight streamlined Observations into their famous 3/4 length Dome Lounge Cars losing the observation ends in the rebuilding.
Many other roads simply chose to sell off their lightweight streamlined Observations, as they were no longer needed. The NdeM was the largest buyer of used lightweight streamlined Observations.
The New York Central second largest purchaser of lightweight streamlined Observations owned none by the time of the merger with the PRR and NYNH&H in 1968 that created the Penn Central.
It was quite surprising to railroad historians when Amtrak purchased a total of 47 of these Observations.
For the scope of this book we will not cover the lightweight experimental Talgo, Aerotrain, Turbo etc. as they deserve to be covered on there own.
The following listing is of major lightweight passenger trains that were never assigned streamlined Observations.

AT&SF

HI-LEVEL EL CAPITANS

KANSAS CITY CHIEF

SAN FRANCISCO CHIEFS

TEXAS CHIEFS

CNR

SUPER CONTINENTALS

PANORAMAS

CAVALIERS

TEMPOS

CPR

ATLANTIC LIMITED

VIPER

C of G

NANCY HANKS II

C&EI

MEADOWLARK

CB&Q

AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR

BLACKHAWK

CMSTP&P

CHIPPEWA HIAWATHA

PIONEER

D&RGW

PROSPECTOR
(Postwar)


GN

WINNIPEG LIMITED

L&N

GEORGIAN

GULF WIND

HUMMINGBIRD

MP

COLORADO EAGLE

LOUISIANA EAGLE

TEXAS EAGLE 1-2

TEXAS EAGLE 21 - 22

VALLEY EAGLE

NYC

DETROITER

WOLVERINE


NP

MAINSTREETER

PRR

KEYSTONE

UP

BUTTE SPECIAL

CITY OF ST. LOUIS

The following list covers named streamlined trains that operated with streamlined Observations but were never heavyweight trains prior to the streamline era.

ALTON

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

ANN RUTLEDGE

AT&SF

CHICAGOAN

EL CAPITAN

GOLDEN GATE

KANSAS CITYAN

SAN DIEGAN

TULSAN

ACL

EAST COAST CHAMPION

WEST COAST CHAMPION

B&O

CINCINNATIAN

COLUMBIAN

ROYAL BLUE

CofG

MAN O' WAR

CNR

AFTERNOON RAPIDO

CHAMPLAIN

CPR

CANADIAN

C&O

PERE MARQUETTES

C&EI

WHIPPOORWILL

CB&Q

AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR

CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR

DENVER ZEPHYR

GENERAL PERSHING ZEPHYR

KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR

MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR

NEBRASKA ZEPHYR

PIONEER ZEPHYR

SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR

SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR

TWIN ZEPHYR

ZEPHYR-ROCKET

CMSTP&P

AFTERNOON HIAWATHA

MIDWEST HIAWATHA

MORNING HIAWATHA

CRI&P

CHOCTAW ROCKET

DENVER ROCKET

DES MOINES ROCKET

KANSAS CITY -
MINNEAPOLIS
ROCKET

PEORIA ROCKET

ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET

TEXAS ROCKET

TWIN STAR ROCKET


C&S/FW&D

TEXAS ZEPHYR

GN

RED RIVER

GM&O/GM&N

GULF COAST REBEL

REBEL

IC

CITY OF MIAMI

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS

GREEN DIAMOND

KCS

SOUTHERN BELLE

NC&STL

CITY OF MEMPHIS

NdeM

AZTEC EAGLE

NYC

EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS

JAMES WHITCOMB RILEY

MERCURY


PRR

SOUTHWIND

READING

CRUSADER

SAL

SILVER COMET

SILVER METEOR

SILVER STAR

SOU

SOUTHERNER

TENNESSEAN

SP

MORNING DAYLIGHT

NOON DAYLIGHT

SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT

SHASTA DAYLIGHT

T&NO

HUSTLER

SUNBEAM

UP

CHALLENGER

CITY OF DENVER

CITY OF LOS ANGELES

CITY OF PORTLAND

CITY OF SALINA

CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO

There are probably many trains in the above listing I have overlooked or been unable to find.
Many of the streamlined trains mentioned above originally pulled by steam so either oil smoke or cinders dusted the tops of many of the streamlined trains including the following:

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

ARIZONA LIMITED

BROADWAY LIMITED

CHIEF

CITY OF MEMPHIS

COMMODORE VANDERBILT

CRUSADER

DAYLIGHT

FIREFLY

GENERAL

JEFFERSONIAN

LARK

LIBERTY LIMITED

OVERLAND LIMITED

RED BIRD

SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT

SOUTH WIND

SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS

TEXAS SPECIAL

TRAILBLAZER

TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED

TTFN Al

[trolleyboy]

Gday gents. first off a [bday] greeting for you Tom. I will "see" you at the bar tonight as well, might even be able to Heather to pop in. Neat museum shots Pete, looks as though the cars could run right back out onto the line and earn their keep !Nice to see those Streamlined observation cars, they looked better in the MILW paint job than the later CN black and grey [sigh] I thinkj several of them are still in or around Buffalo, thye were the last time I was there at any rate. Not looking quite so pristine though [sigh]

Art Thanks for the added info. At least they though to consult with someone who sounds as though understands the how and the why of streetcar operations. One wonders if they talked to officials from Boston, Toronto or San Fran, on the whole operational end of things.You never jnow they still mught see the light ( don't hold your breath but maybe )

Rob

[LoveDomes]

Hi Cap'n Tom

I see Pete's been in with some Brit trains . . . check this out . . .



British: 6998 GWR modified Hall Class "Burton Agnes Hall"
(GNU Free Documentation)


[bday] See ya at the bar at 7 PM Central Time!!

Until the next time! [tup]


Lars

[pwolfe]

Hi Folks

[bday] TOM

A couple of pics of British Electric Multiple Units taken at the National Railway Museum In York.



An ex LMS "Oerliken" 3rd rail motor car. these were used on the line from London Euston to Watford.



A Southern Railway 3rd rail driving car. these units were used on the London Waterloo to Portsmouth line following that lines electrification in the 1930s.
Click to enlarge.
Pete.

[LoveDomes]

G'day Cap'n Tom and [bday] to YOU!

Just have a couple of minutes and noticed that "your other Thread' is as quiet as a Church Mouse - even Al didn't notice it is your "day!"

See ya over at the bar for tonight's "Bash"! [tup] Have a good one!!

Until the next time! [tup]

Lars

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom, Can't help with todays theme as the Soo never owned any Streamlined Passenger cars. But will see what else I might be able to find.

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #21

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Soo Line

Headquarters: Minneapolis, MN

Mileage:

1954: 3,159
1961 (before 1985 acquisition of Milwaukee Road): 4,719

Locomotives in 1954:

Steam: 47
Diesel: 76

Rolling stock in 1954:

Freight cars: 8,035
Passenger cars: 128

Principal routes (w/Wisconsin Central) in 1954:

Chicago-Minneapolis/St. Paul
Minneapolis-Portal, ND
Minneapolis-Sault Ste. Marie, MI
Dresser, WI-Duluth, MN
Owen, WI-Duluth, MN
Glenwood-Noyes, MN

Passenger trains of note:

Atlantic Limited (Minneapolis-Boston, with CP and B&M east of Sault Ste. Marie)
Copper Country Limited (Chicago-Calumet, MI with CMStP&P Chicago-Champion, MI, thence DSS&A/Soo to Calumet)
Duluth-Superior Limited (Minneapolis-Duluth)
Laker (Chicago-Duluth & Minneapolis &Ashland, WI; rerouted to Superior, WI from Duluth in 1961)
Mountaineer (St. Paul-Vancouver, BC, with CP from Portal to Vancouver)
Soo Dominion (St. Paul-Vancouver with CP from Portal to Vancouver)
Winnipeger (St. Paul-Winnipeg, MB, with CP from Noyes to Winnipeg)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[passengerfan]

You are right Tom it did tweak my interest. The photo is probably The Olympian Hiawatha passing or overtaking the Columbian in Washington State between Othello and the Columbia River.

CHICAGO
MILWAUKEE
ST. PAUL
&
PACIFIC Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Milwaukee Road owned eighteen streamlined Observations all but six constructed in their own Milwaukee, Wisconsin shops.
The streamlined Beavertail Observations a trademark of the Milwaukee Road before WW II, and the postwar Skytop Observations were unmistakably Milwaukee Road Observations. Pullman Standard constructed the only Milwaukee Road streamlined Observations with sleeping car accommodation. These six were built for the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA and all were later sold to the Canadian National after the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was discontinued.
Milwaukee Roads first two lightweight streamlined Beavertail Observations were completed in May 1935 and were the first of a very elite group of cars that would only ever number eight. There would be three different versions of these unique Beaver-tail Observations built and all three would be quite different, with each succeeding one an improvement in styling over the previous ones. The one feature all three versions shared was the sloping back from roof to frame.
The first two Beavertail Observations were initially assigned both numbers and names but the numbers were soon dropped. They were 4449 NOKOMIS and 4450 WENONAH. The rear of these two cars resembled the rear of a bus with their two triangular windows positioned in the sloping back. These windows were also quite small obviously not intended for passengers to look out of. Each car interior was made up of 21 Parlor seats and three lounge seats at the rear of the Beavertail facing forward. These cars were assigned to the first two six car HIAWATHAS inaugurated May 29, 1935 between Chicago and the Twin Cities.
As newer HIAWATHAS superseded the first HIAWATHA the two Observations were passed along to lesser HIAWATHAS. In 1952 in their birthplace shops the first two Beavertail Observations NOKOMIS and WENONAH were rebuilt to straight Express cars 1955 and 1956 respectively. This was a very sad ending for two such historical cars.

21 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 3 SEAT LOUNGE BEAVERTAIL OBSERVATIONS Milwaukee Road Shops May 1935 (Built for and assigned to first HIAWATHAS)

NOKOMIS

WENONAH

The second pair of streamlined Beavertail Observations were out shopped in Milwaukee in October 1936 to bring up the markers of two all new HIAWATHAS to replace the earlier 6 car HIAWATHA trains in service between Chicago and the Twin Cities.
The new nine car HIAWATHAS began service October 11, 1936. The two Beavertail Observations bringing up the markers were OMEME and OPECHEE. These two differed from the earlier NOKOMIS and WENONAH as they were longer and had four windows across the rear. The interiors of OMEME and OPECHEE offered 26 Parlor seats and a 12-seat lounge in the Observation end. Again none of the seating in this lounge area was suitable for viewing to the rear instead all seating in this area faced forward. The sloping rear was fitted with wings identical to those that were found on the last four Beavertail Observations built in September 1938. This was after they had been transferred to the MIDWEST HIAWATHA. The OMEME and OPECHEEE were to suffer the same fate as the two earlier Beavertail Observations in 1952 being rebuilt to express cars as the Milwaukee Road referred to Baggage cars and numbered 1957 and 1958 respectively.

26 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 12 SEAT BEAVERTAIL LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Beavertail) Milwaukee Road Shops October 1936 (Built for and assigned to HIAWATHAS)

OMEME

OPECHEE

For the final four Beavertail Observations the Milwaukee Road turned to famed industrial designer Otto Kuhler who designed the entire 1938 HIAWATHAS and whose redesign of the already famous Beavertail observations made them even more distinguishable from the previous cars of this type. Now across the rear of these distinctive cars were two large picture windows with three closely positioned stainless steel curved wings above the windows with a matching stainless steel curved vertical rudder between the windows and splitting the horizontal wings. The horizontal wings acted as a sunshade for the large picture windows. This was the final touch that was needed to really accent these beautiful cars. In 1942 Milwaukee Road Shops retrofitted identical wings and rudder to the older OMEME and OPECHEE. This greatly enhanced the appearance of these two cars as well. The first two of the new Beavertail Observations EARLING and MERRILL featured 28 Parlor seats and a 17 seat Lounge in the rear. But unlike the earlier Beavertail Observations lounge area this time their were eight of those seats facing aft so passengers could at last enjoy the scenery to the rear. These two Beavertail Observations entered service bringing up the markers of two all new HIAWATHAS September 19, 1938.
On January 21, 1939 these two train sets became the MORNING HIAWATHAS and on that same date two new trains with identical Beavertail Observations MILLER and MITCHELL entered service as the AFTERNOON HIAWATHAS. In 1941 both AFTERNOON HIAWATHA beavertail Observations were shopped having their interiors remodeled. Seven of the Parlor seats were removed near the front of these cars and a 5-seat Parlor Drawing room was installed complete with private bathroom annex. This reduced the open Parlor seating to 21.
In 1952 the EARLING and MERRILL became the third pair of Beavertail Observations to be rebuilt to straight Express cars and numbered 1959 and 1960.
MILLER and MITCHELL were retired and scrapped in their Milwaukee birthplace in 1961. Not a single example of these most distinctive Observations survived even in a museum for future generations to enjoy.

28 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 17 SEAT BEAVERTAIL LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS September 1938 (Built for and assigned to MORNING and AFTERNOON HIAWATHAS)

EARLING

MERRILL

MILLER

MITCHELL

The unforgettable Brook Steven's designed streamlined Skytop Observations were constructed in the spring of 1948 by the Milwaukee Road shops to replace the four prewar Beavertail Observations EARLING, MERRILL, MILLER, and MITCHELL in MORNING and AFTERNOON HIAWATHA service. These four cars were assigned numbers as well as names ending with RAPIDS. These were 186 CEDAR RAPIDS, 187 COON RAPIDS, 188 DELL RAPIDS and 189 PRIEST RAPIDS. Initially 186 CEDAR RAPIDS and 187 COON RAPIDS were assigned to the MORNING HIAWATHAS and 188 DELL RAPIDS and 189 PRIEST RAPIDS to the AFTERNOON HIAWATHAS.
All four were retired in 1971 with the coming of Amtrak. Car 189 PRIEST RAPIDS was scrapped in its Milwaukee birthplace. The other three were all saved. Car 186 CEDAR RAPIDS was restored and donated to the cars designer Brook Steven's. The remaining pair of Skytop Observations 187 COON RAPIDS and 188 DELL RAPIDS were sold to private owners where they too were restored to pristine condition.

5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 24 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 12 SEAT SKYTOP LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Round Sloping Glass) Milwaukee Road Shops April - May 1948 (Built for and assigned to MORNING and AFTERNOON HIAWATHAS)

186 CEDAR RAPIDS

187 COON RAPIDS

188 DELL RAPIDS

189 PRIEST RAPIDS

The final six Streamlined Skytop Observations were built by Pullman Standard between November 1948 and January 1949, these six cars were easily distinguishable from the Milwaukee Road built Skytop Observations by their much larger glass enclosed lounge area. All six of the CREEK series Sleeper Lounge Skytop Observations entered OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA service beginning in December 1948 and the final car entered service in January 1949. They replaced heavyweight open platform Observations that had operated in there place pending delivery. Except for the new 10-6 sleeping cars and the 8 Double Bedroom 20 seat Skytop Lounge Observations the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHAS were streamlined in 1947. These cars were numbered as well as named and like many other Railroads for superstitious reasons they skipped the number 13. The cars were 12 ALDER CREEK, 14 ARROW CREEK, 15 COFFEE CREEK, 16 GOLD CREEK, 17 MARBLE CREEK and 18 SPANISH CREEK.
All six of these cars only saw limited service after the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was discontinued May 22, 1961. In 1967 all six were sold to the Canadian National for further service.

8 DOUBLE BEDROOM 20 SEAT SKYTOP LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard November 1948 - January 1949 Plan: 4138 Lot: 6775 (Built for and assigned to OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA)

12 ALDER CREEK

14 ARROW CREEK

15 COFFEE CREEK

16 GOLD CREEK

17 MARBLE CREEK

18 SPANISH CREEK

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's an interesting shot that may tweak someone's interest . . . .


Milwaukee Road #16 Gold Creek (1948)(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

A favorite of mine . . . .

from: www.trainweb.org



Later! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[artpeterson]

Hi Rob -

RE: Who it was thought would operate the Circulator and who actually would have operated it had it come to fruition: I agree that CTA probably would have ended up being stuck with it. I say "stuck with it", because I don't believe the contractors would have been lining up to bid on the franchise, and because CTA's input was not really sought during the design. For example, the operating voltage was headed toward 750 Vdc; never mind that there are several 600 Vdc substations and related infrastructure already serving CTA lines in and around the downtown area. To me a big concern was that many of the consultants understood "light rail", but this was really more of a streetcar, almost all in city streets, with most all of the network in the CBD. Early on one of the consultants asked me about a CBD track map for CSL in its heyday. I thought "Great! They understand the need for a lot of turnback/escape trackage to deal with blockages/delays." Well, they did until they had to go into cost-cutting mode, at which time a lot of the short-turn/emergency trackage went away. It would have been exceedingly tough to operate a reliable service on it. Needless to say my feelings toward the project were not widely shared in the consultant community!

[passengerfan]

In keeping with todays theme of the Milwaukee Road will post the following.

CHICAGO
MILWAUKEE
ST PAUL
&
PACIFIC
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
By Al

The Milwaukee Road owned a total thirty-six first class Lightweight Streamlined sleeping cars. Thirty one were constructed by Pullman Standard and five Budd built lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars were purchased used from the Union Pacific. Besides these first class sleeping cars the Milwaukee Road shops constructed six combination 32 revenue seat Coach 8 section Touralux cars and twelve 14 Section Touralux cars. These eighteen cars were for the economy minded traveler of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA between Chicago and Seattle - Tacoma. The OLMPIAN HIAWATHA was a new train inaugurated in June 1947 and was the first and only HIAWATHA to be assigned sleeping cars. The OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was the only postwar streamlined train to be assigned new streamlined Tourist sleeping cars, in fact the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was the only streamlined train in the U.S. to operate with homemade tourist sleeping cars in its consists. The inaugural OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA of June 29, 1947 operated with one 32 seat Coach 8 Section Touralux Car and two 14 Section Touralux cars. The first class section of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA initially operated with one heavyweight 6 Section 6 Double Bedroom Sleeper and one heavyweight 3 Compartment 2 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Open Platform Observation. The reason for the heavyweight sleepers was Pullman Standard did not complete the last of the new lightweight stream-lined sleepers for the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA until January 1949. So it wasn't until January 1949 that all consists of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA became fully streamlined.

32 REVENUE SEAT COACH-8 SECTION TORALUX SLEEPING CARS Milwaukee Road Shops June 1947 (Built for and assigned to OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA)

5770 SIOUX FALLS

5771 CHIPPEWA FALLS

5772 GRANITE FALLS

5773 CRYSTAL FALLS

5774 METALINE FALLS

5775 CANNON FALLS

The above cars lasted less than a year in OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA service and were withdrawn from the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA in 1948. Initially the Milwaukee Road assigned these cars to the COLUMBIAN the secondary train between Chicago and Seattle - Tacoma but they were soon withdrawn from this train as well. Three of these cars 5770 SIOUX FALLS, 5771 CHIPPEWA FALLS and 5773 CRYSTAL FALLS were rebuilt in Milwaukee Shops to 14 Section Touralux cars with the following new numbers and MT. series names. The rebuilding took place between May - August 1951.

5752 MT. CHITTENDEN originally 5770 SIOUX FALLS

5753 MT. JUPITER originally 5771 CHIPPEWA FALLS

5754 MT. TACOMA originally 5773 CRYSTAL FALLS

The remaining three cars were rebuilt to 52 revenue seat coaches and assigned to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA pool as follows.

552 originally 5772 GRANITE FALLS

553 originally 5774 METALINE FALLS

554 originally 5775 CANNON FALLS

The 14 Section Touralux cars initially built for the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA were actually a holdover from another era. The Tourist Sleeping cars had been quite popular before WW II but following the war the railroads were having more difficulty filling these cars and then in 1947 Pullman withdrew all tourist sleeping cars and the end was in sight. The Milwaukee Road bucked the trend and seemed to do quite well for the first few years these cars were operating in he OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA. But Alas even the Milwaukee Road was unable to fill even two of these cars per consist of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA and removed one from each consist reassigning hose cars to the COLUMBIAN where they became the only Sleeping car of any type in that train. Initially these cars were to have names beginning with the letter T but they were out shopped with MT. series names. The intended name is shown in brackets following the name of the car.



14 SECTION TOURALUX SLEEPING CARS Milwaukee Road Shops June 1947 (Built for and assigned to OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA)

5740 MT. SPOKANE (TAMA)

5741 MT. WASHINGTON (TANWAX)

5742 MT. McKINLEY (TAOPI)

5743 MT. BOSLEY (TARKIO)

5744 MT. RAINIER (TEKOA)

5745 MT. RUSHMORE (THELMA)

5746 MT. ST. HELENS (THORP)

5747 MT. WILSON (TITUS)

5748 MT. HOPE (TROXEL)

5749 MT. STUART (TULARE)

5750 MT. HAROLD (TUNIS)

5751 MT. ANGELES (TYNDALL)

Four of the MT. series 14 Section Touralux cars were rebuilt in 1959 to Baggage 16 Crew Dormitory cars for assignment to CITY streamliners; they were 5741 MT. WASHINGTON, 5743 MT. BOSLEY, 5749 MT. STUART and 5751 MT. ANGELES. After rebuilding to Baggage 16 Crew Dormitory cars they received new numbers only 1354, 1352, 1351, and 1350 respectively.
Four additional MT. series 14 Section Touralux cars were rebuilt to Express Storage cars in 1964. They were as follows.

2014 ex CMSTP&P 5754 MT. TACOMA originally CMSTP&P 5773 CRYSTAL FALLS

2015 originally CMSTP&P 5750 MT. HAROLD

2016 ex CMSTP&P 5753 MT. JUPITER originally CMSTP&P 5771 CHIPPEWA FALLS

2017 originally CMSTP&P 5740 MT. SPOKANE

All remaining MT. series 14 Section Touralux cars were retired between 1967 and 1969.
The Milwaukee Road began receiving first class sleeping cars from Pullman Standard in October 1948 with 28 cars delivered by February 1949. These 28 cars were for the six consists of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA and two consists of the PIONEER LIMITED. Each consist of the PIONEER LIMITED received four RIVER series 6 Roomette 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars and two 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars named for online cities. .
The OLYMPIA HIAWATHA was assigned Ten LAKE series 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars one for each consist with four held in reserve for peak travel periods. Each OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was also assigned one 8 Double Bedroom 20 seat Skytop Lounge Observation car. These were probably the most attractive Observations ever built for a streamlined train.
With only Roomettes and Double Bedrooms available on the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA the author has often wondered if this contributed to the early demise of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA in 1960. The author fully realizes that two bedrooms could be opened ensuite and sold as a Drawing Room but it was still only three types of first class sleeping car space. The three primary competitors Great Northern EMPIRE BUILDER featured Sections, Duplex Roomettes, Double Bedrooms and Drawing Room. Northern Pacific Railways NORTH COAST LIMITED featured Duplex Roomettes, Roomettes, Double Bedrooms and Compartments. The Union Pacific CITY OF PORTLAND offered Sections, Roomettes, Double Bedrooms, Compartments and Drawing Rooms.
Again we repeat that the Milwaukee Road was the only railroad to place so much emphasis on Tourist Sleeping cars following WW II and was the only railroad to build streamlined passenger cars for that purpose. With the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA having 36 Tourist uppers and 36 Tourist lowers initially one can't help but wonder if this took away first class passengers. Even when the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA discontinued the Coach-Touralux from each consist in 1948 this still gave the train 28 uppers and 28 lowers.
The first class sleeping car section of the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA made up of One LAKE and one CREEK series car provided accommodations for 38. The Great Northern EMPIRE BUILDER provided first class sleeping car space for 103. Union Pacific's CITY OF PORTLAND provided first class sleeping cars space for 100. The Northern Pacific's NORTH COAST LIMITED provided first class sleeping car space for 76. It almost seems as if the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was destined to fail from the beginning as far as first class sleeping car space was concerned. All three of the competitors provided leg rest seat coaches one more reason for through passengers to ignore the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA.
The other Milwaukee train to receive lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars during that period was the PIONEER LIMITED operating between Chicago and Minneapolis nightly. The two main competitors for this train were the CB&Q BLACKHAWK and C&NW NORTHWESTERN LIMITED. Both of these trains would receive lightweight streamlined sleeping cars the BLACKHAWK in 1952 and the NORTHWESTERN LIMITED in the fall of 1948. Eventually all three trains would become streamlined but the PIONEEER LIMITED had the reputation for being the best on this very competitive route.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October - November 1948 Plan: 4137 Lot: 6775 (Built for and assigned to OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA later CITY streamliners)

2 LAKE COEUR D'ALENE

3 LAKE KEECHELUS

4 LAKE PEPIN

5 LAKE OCONOMOWOC

6 LAKE PEND OREILLE

7 LAKE CHATCOLET

8 LAKE PEWAUKEE

9 LAKE NASHOTAH

10 LAKE KAPOWSIN

11 LAKE CRESCENT

6 ROOMETTE 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October - December 1948 Plan: 4135 Lot: 6775 (Built for and assigned to PIONEER LIMITED)

19 MADISON RIVER

20 ST. JOE RIVER

21 YELLOWSTONE RIVER

22 GALLATIN RIVER

23 VERMILLION RIVER

24 JEFFERSON RIVER

25 CHIPPEWA RIVER

26 WISCONSIN RIVER

• 23 VERMILLION RIVER INTENDED NAME MISSOURI RIVER
•
• 25 CHIPPEWA RIVER INTENDED NAME MISSISSIPPI RIVER
Names were changed as intended names were already used by GN sleeping cars built prior to Milwaukee Road sleeping cars.

8 DOUBLE BEDROOM 20 SEAT SKYTOP LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard November 1948 - January 1949 Plan: 4138 Lot: 6775 (Built for and assigned to OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA)

12 ALDER CREEK

14 ARROW CREEK

15 COFFEE CREEK

16 GOLD CREEK

17 MARBLE CREEK

18 SPANISH CREEK

16 DUPLEX ROOMETTES 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January - February 1949 Plan: 4147D Lot: 6775 (Built for and assigned to PIONEER LIMITED)

27 RAYMOND

28 NEW LISBON

29 WISCONSIN DELLS

30 RODNEY

During non-peak travel periods beginning in 1952 the Milwaukee Road began assigning one of the RIVER series sleeping cars to each consist of the COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED between Chicago and Calumet, Michigan. The Milwaukee Road reported nearly a full house when the RIVER series cars were assigned to the COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED. In order to maintain this ridership the Milwaukee Road placed an order with Pullman Standard for two of these cars for assignment to the COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED. When they arrived on the Milwaukee Road they were placed in a pool of these cars for operation in the PIONEER LIMITED and COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED.

6 ROOMETTE 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November 1954 Plan: 4192A Lot: 6945 (Built for and assigned to PIONEER LIMITED - COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED pool)

31 MINNESOTA RIVER

32 ZUMBRO RIVER

The Milwaukee Road began assigning lightweight streamlined sleeping cars to the ARROW in 1958. The ARROW was the overnight train between Chicago and Omaha with a section splitting at Manila, Iowa going to and from Sioux Falls, S.D. The first streamlined sleeping cars assigned were two of the LAKE series 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars from the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA pool, they provided each of the two consists with the Chicago - Omaha sleeping car. The other streamlined sleeper in each consist was a Chicago - Sioux Falls 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom cars that were reassigned from the PIONEER LIMITED. The Milwaukee Road replaced the 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars between Chicago and Omaha with 6 Roomette 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars beginning in the 1960's for Chicago - Omaha sleeping car service.
These were the last new lightweight streamlined sleeping cars built new for the Milwaukee Road.
On October 30, 1955 the Milwaukee Road assumed operation of all OVERLAND route streamliners east of Omaha to Chicago.
From 1889 to that date the C&NW had provided the eastern leg of Overland route traffic between Chicago and Omaha.
For there part in the CITY pool the Milwaukee Road was required to provide forty-four passenger cars. The Milwaukee Road was required to provide Baggage (Express) Cars, Baggage Crew Dormitory, Diner, Lounge and Leg-Rest Coaches. Since the Milwaukee Road owned no leg-rest coaches a massive coach set refitting took place with some fifty-three 52-revenue seat coaches converted to 40 revenue seat leg-rest coaches. The refurbished 40 seat leg-rest coaches were not only assigned to the CITY streamliners but to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA as well. No Sleeping cars were provided initially by the Milwaukee Road as part of the Overland route agreement with the Union Pacific and Southern Pacific. With summer traffic levels requiring additional sleeping cars the Milwaukee Road used the extra 10-6 sleeping cars from the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA pool in CITY OF DENVER service that first summer of 1956.
The agreement was amended in 1969 and the Milwaukee Road was required to provide five 10-6 sleeping cars. Since the Milwaukee Road sleeping cars had all been sold off by that time the Milwaukee Road purchased five used sleeping cars from the Union Pacific. The five cars were Budd built 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars built for the UP between December 1949 and June 1950. The cars were transferred to Milwaukee Road ownership in June 1969 and retained there PACIFIC series names with new Milwaukee Road lettering and car numbers as follows.

33 PACIFIC BRIDGE originally UP 1405 PACIFIC BRIDGE

34 PACIFIC CRUISER originally UP 1411 PACIFIC CRUISER

35 PACIFIC GUARD originally UP 1418 PACIFIC GUARD

36 PACIFIC HARBOR originally UP 1419 PACIFIC HARBOR

37 PACIFIC LIGHT originally UP 1424 PACIFIC LIGHT

The last OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA departures were from Chicago and Tacoma-Seattle May 22, 1961. The next day a nameless pair of trains carrying a Touralux Sleeping car and no first class sleeping car began operating between Minneapolis and Deer Lodge, Montana. These nameless trains operated until January 31, 1964 when their schedule was further cut back to a Minneapolis - Aberdeen train until finally discontinued altogether April 16, 1969.
The COPPER COUNTRY LIMITED was reduced to a tri weekly schedule lasted until finally discontinued March 7, 1968.
The PIONEER LIMITED came the closest of the Milwaukee Road overnight trains to reach Amtrak but it too was finally discontinued September 7, 1970.

TTFN Al

[trolleyboy]

Morning Gents.

Tom Nice train encore the MILW of coarse was a big user of heavy mainline electrics in their western regions. Nothing beats a couple Little Joes carrying the old frieght train up and down the sides of the mountain passes [tup]

Art Thanks for the info. It seems like it was a very ambitious project. It's kind of too bad that it hasn't happened. In the right climate it sounds like a winner at least on paper. If they were intent on joining up the various stations then I could actually see them turning a profit. I'm sure that the infrastructure would have been the major stumbling block pricewise overhead and trackage are expensive to build and maintain.


Just my [2c] but I would think that in order for it to have worked the CTA should have operated it, have the bus routes terminate at the various circulator and metra stations, in short make it a fully integrated system, in which a person could transfer freely from one to the next. I know, pipe dream but that would have been a winner.

I know a couple other guys over at Tom's bar that would love to chat about traction with you, might be worth a stop over some time.


Rob

[artpeterson]

Hi Rob -

The Circulator project was an attempt to link the train stations to the North Michigan Avenue area, Navy Pier, the Loop and the near south side. The yard and shop was to have been on the site of the old Soo Freight Terminal (Roosevelt and Canal, just west of the BN 14th Street shop and yard). That site has now been completely redeveloped for commercial use. At one point the near southside line was to have had a branch to serve the Museum Campus (Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, etc.), and there was some discussion about using historic cars on that service.

To me, the strangest aspect of this plan was that the city and its management team seemed to believe this project would run counter to all other recent US transit experience and actually operate at a profit! They also felt that they would have contractors lining up to bid on the chance to run the thing. It would have been highly disruptive to CTA bus service (several routes being truncated within sight of downtown, others being diverted off streets the Ciruclator was using, etc.). Given the tenuous funding situation for the RTA's service boards (CTA, Metra and Pace), there was considerable concern on their part that the Circulator would have further-divided the local funding "pie." As a result of this, the management team decided the Circulator O&M would not be funded through the RTA. In the end the political will to support the project evaporated.

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #20


Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (CM&StP) – The Milwaukee Road

Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage: 1950: 10,664

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 803
Electric: 93

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 42.325
Passenger: 588

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Minneapolis via Milwaukee and Columbus, WI
New Lisbon-Woodruff, WI
Minneapolis-Seattle & Tacoma via Spokane, WA
Minneapolis & St. Paul-Calmar, IA via Austin, MN
La Crescent, MN-Wessington Springs, SD
Rondout, IL (Chicago)-Madison, WI
Watertown, WI-Rapid City, SD
Chicago-Omaha
Manilla, IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Marion-Ottumwa, IA
Sturtevant, WI-Kansas City
La Crosse, WI-Sabula, IA
Des Moines-Spencer, IA
Chicago-Terre Haute, IN
Milwaukee-Ontonagon, MI via Green Bay, WI

Passenger trains of note:

Afternoon Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Arrow (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Chippewa-Hiawatha (Chicago-Channing, MI)
Copper Country Limited (Chicago-Green Bay-Calumet, MI jointly with DSS&A railroad)
Midwest Hiawatha (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Morning Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-Minneapolis)
Olympian (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle & Tacoma)
Olympian Hiawatha (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle U& Tacoma; replaced Olympian)
Pioneer Limited (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Sioux (Chicago-Madison-Rapid City, SD)
Southwest Limited (Milwaukee & Chicago-Kansas City
Tomahawk (Chicago-Minocqua, WI)
Varsity (Chicago-Madison)

Of note: From 1955-1971, Milwaukee Road operated the Chicago-Omaha segment of UP’s “Overland” streamliners including the City of Denver, City of Portland, City of Los Angeles, City of San Francisco and the Challenger.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[trolleyboy]

Gday again. [wow][:O] Al All one could want to know about CB&Q passneger trains and them some [bow]

Tom Keep thinking the good thinks rendezvous #2 will happen I'm sure the bar wil survie the next 11 months

Art I hadn't heard about Chicago attempting to start up streetcars again ( coarse I don't keep up with the CERA anymore ) What were the particulars ? I'm assuming by the sounds of it that they were thinking single cars or lite rail train sets ?

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here comes the Zephyr!


Burlington Zephyr (Public Domain)


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

In keeping with todays theme here is my CB&Q.

CHICAGO
BURLINGTON
&
QUINCY
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The CB&Q was the pioneer in streamlined diesel powered lightweight articulated trains with the 9900 ZEPHYR and its two car train. The 9900 ZEPHYR unveiled in May 1934 to a nation deep in the throes of the depression offered a glimmer of hope in its glistening stainless steel finish and showed that nation that a brighter future lay ahead.
The CB&Q were one of the so-called granger roads that traversed the American wheat belt the breadbasket of the nation. Other granger roads were the Milwaukee Road, Chicago & North Western, Chicago Rock Island & Pacific, Chicago Great Western, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and St. Louis - San Francisco. All of these roads have disappeared by now either merged out of existence or bankrupt. For one of these roads to be a major factor and pioneer in streamlining is even more amazing.
After the CB&Q purchased the 9900 ZEPHYR they followed it with three more articulated train sets built by the Budd Company before questioning the future of the articulated train sets. The CB&Q was becoming disillusioned with the articulated trains as there fixed consists did not permit the expansion of the passenger capacity by adding additional cars, if part of the articulated train set was out of service for whatever reason then the entire train set was out of service.
The first ZEPHYRS with sleeping cars were the DENVER ZEPHYRS inaugurated November 7, 1936. These were the first ZEPHYRS to have no more than any three cars articulated together, and the power could simply be uncoupled. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS provided fast 16 hour overnight scheduling between Chicago and Denver a distance of just over a thousand miles. Each of the two consists are listed below.

9906A SILVER KING Shovelnose 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9906B SILVER QUEEN 1,200 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

950 SILVER COURIER Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

980 SILVER LINING Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Car

4852 SILVER BEAM 64 Revenue Seat Coach 16 Seat Dinette Car (added May 1938)

4631 SILVER CITY Articulated 64 Revenue Seat Coach
4632 SILVER LAKE Articulated 38 Revenue Seat Coach
152 SILVER GRILL Articulated 40 Seat Dining Car

410 SILVER STATE Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
411 SILVER TIP Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car

412 SILVER ARROW Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
440 SILVER SIDES Articulated 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

445 SILVER SLIPPER 4 Roomette 4 Chambrette 1 Drawing Room 1 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added April 1939)

230 SILVER FLASH 10 Revenue Seat Parlor Buffet 31 Seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

9907A SILVER KNIGHT Shovelnose 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9907B SILVER PRINCESS 1,200 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

951 SILVER HERALD Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

981 SILVER BAR Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory 16 Seat Lounge Car

4853 SILVER BELL 64 Revenue Seat Coach 16 Seat Dinette Car (added May 1938)

4633 SILVER SPRUCE Articulated 64 Revenue Seat Coach
4634 SILVER PLUME Articulated 38 Revenue Seat Coach
153 SILVER SERVICE Articulated 40 Seat Dining Car

413 SILVER SKATES Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
414 SILVER SCREEN Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car

415 SILVER TONE Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
441 SILVER THREADS Articulated 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

446 SILVER MOON 4 Roomette 4 Chambrette 1 Drawing Room 1 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added April 1939)

231 SILVER STREAK 10 Revenue Seat Parlor Buffet 31 Seat Lounge Observation

As can be seen by the DENVER ZEPHYR consists above each train set received one additional Sleeping car in April 1939 from Budd. These two cars 445 SILVER SLIPPERS and 446 SILVER MOON the last new cars added to the DENVER ZEPHYRS. In 1938 two Coaches were added to the Denver Zephyrs one per consist.

ARTICULATED 12 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October 1936 Plan: 9512 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

410 SILVER STATE

412 SILVER ARROW

413 SILVER SKATES

415 SILVER TONE

ARTICULATED 12 SECTION SLEEPING CARS October 1936 Plan: 9514 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

411 SILVER TIP

414 SILVER SCREEN

ARTICULATED 3 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October 1936 Plan: 9515 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

440 SILVER SIDES

441 SILVER THREADS

4 ROOMETTE 4 CHAMBRETTES 1 DRAWING ROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company April 1939 Plan: 9516 (Built for and added to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

445 SILVER SLIPPER

446 SILVER MOON

The Burlington and Rock Island inaugurated the ZEPHYR-ROCKET January 7, 1941 between Minneapolis and St. Louis overnight in each direction. The CB&Q handled the trains between St. Louis and Burlington a distance of 221 miles and the Rock Island handled the train between Burlington and Minneapolis a distance of 366 miles for a total of 587 miles. Each of the two railroads provided one 2,000 hp diesel unit and one set of equipment except for the Dining Lounge Observations 432 ST. LOUIS and 433 ST. PAUL they were both Rock Island owned. The modernized Pullman heavyweight sleeping cars were painted light gray to match the rest of the stainless steel cars in consists. Initially each consist carried one modernized heavy-weight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping car MINNEAPOLIS or CEDAR RAPIDS, and in June 1941 a second modernized heavy-weight sleeping car with 8 Section 1 Drawing Room and 3 Double Bedrooms was added to each ZEPHYR-ROCKET consist ZEPHYR TOWER or ROCKET TOWER. In December 1948 ownership of the sleeping cars was transferred to the two railroads. ZEPHYR TOWER and MINNEAPOLIS became CB&Q cars while ROCKET TOWER and CEDAR RAPIDS became Rock Island cars.
The two consist are listed below.

CB&Q
9913 SILVER WINGS EMD E5A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1601 SILVER MAIL Baggage 30 " Railway Post Office Car

902 SILVER EXPRESS Baggage Car

4709 SILVER CASTLE 52 Revenue Seat Coach

MINNEAPOLIS Modernized Heavy-weight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

ZEPHYR TOWER Modernized Heavy-weight 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added June 1941)

432 ST. LOUIS (CRI&P) 24 Seat Dining 16 Seat Parlor Lounge Observation

CRI&P

627 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

500 Modernized Heavyweight Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

861 Modernized Heavyweight Baggage Car

312 WATERLOU 52 Revenue Seat Coach

CEDAR RAPIDS Modernized Heavy-weight 10 Section 3 double Bedroom Sleeping Car

ROCKET TOWER Modernized Heavy-weight 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added June 1941)

433 ST. PAUL 24 Seat Dining 16 Seat Parlor Lounge Observation

The next new CB&Q streamlined sleeping cars would come to the road in 1947 but not in the stainless steel finish of their other cars. Instead the five sleeping cars with CB&Q in the letter board at the ends were painted in the new Omaha Orange Pullman Green with Dulux Gold separation Stripes and lettered for the EMPIRE BUILDER. The CB&Q owned one complete consist of the new Chicago - Seattle, Portland streamliner delivered in February 1947 except for power, which the CB&Q provided themselves between St. Paul and Chicago. The CB&Q EMPIRE BUILDER Sleeping cars were as follows.

4 SECTION 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1946 - January 1947 Plan: 4107 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR in 1951)
1167 CUT BANK
PASS
1168 RED GAP PASS

16 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4108 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to GN EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to GN WESTERN STAR in 1951)

1178 SPERRY GLACIER

1179 SIYEH GLACIER

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 20 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to GN EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to GN WESTERN STAR in 1951)

1194 MARIAS RIVER

Beginning in June 1948 the CB&Q began receiving the first of four more Pullman Standard built sleeping cars painted for the Northern Pacific NORTH COAST LIMITED. The CB&Q would own one of the six streamlined consists of this train but would provide their own power between Chicago and St. Paul. The NORTH COAST LIMITED was a Chicago - Seattle, Portland streamliner with the CB&Q responsible for its operation between Chicago and St. Paul. The four CB&Q owned sleeping cars for the NORTH COAST LIMITED were initially named only. These cars were all numbered in 1954 as they were repainted in the new Raymond Loewy two tone green with white separation stripe paint scheme of the NORTH COAST LIMITED.

6 ROOMETTE 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 1 COMPARTMENT 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard July - September 1948 Plan: 4119 Lot: 6781 (Built for and assigned to NP NORTH COAST LIMITED)

CHICAGO

DUBUQUE

SAVANNA

1 COMPARTMENT 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 25 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard June - July 1948 Plan: 4120 Lot: 6781 (Built for and assigned to NP NORTH COAST LIMITED)

MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

The numbering and loss of names of the NP cars occurred as follows.

February 1954

480 originally CB&Q CHICAGO

June 1954

482 originally CB&Q DUBUQUE

483 originally CB&Q MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

October 1954

481 originally CB&Q SAVANNA

The next group of sleeping cars delivered to the CB&Q were for another joint operation. These cars were for the all stainless steel VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR a Chicago - San Francisco daily train requiring six sets of equipment. The CB&Q operated the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR between Chicago and Denver where the Denver and Rio Grande Western took over for the daylight run through the Rockies to Salt Lake City. At Salt Lake City power was once again exchanged and the Western Pacific operated the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR to and from Oakland where passengers boarded either buses or boarded a ferry for the ride to San Francisco. The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR became America's first long distance streamlined cruise train. Each train operated with five Vista- Domes in each consist. There were three Dome Coaches for the Coach passengers and the remaining two domes were for the exclusive use of the Sleeping car passengers. Each of the three operating roads provided their own diesels for the trip over their rails. A typical VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR consist as inaugurated March 20, 1949 follows.

VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR

9960A EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9960B EMD F3B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

9960C EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

903 SILVER BEAR 70" Baggage Car

4718 SILVER LARIAT 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Women and Children's Coach

4719 SILVER RANCH 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg rest Coach

4720 SILVER RIFLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg rest Coach

250 SILVER CLUB 24 Seat Vista Dome 19 Seat Coffee Shop 8 Seat Lounge 19 Crew Dormitory Car

423 SILVER POINT 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

424 SILVER SHORE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

193 SILVER CAFÉ 48 Seat Dining Car

400 SILVER MAPLE 16 Section Sleeping Car

425 SILVER BUTTE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Through New York - San Francisco)

375 SILVER HORIZON 24 Seat Vista Dome 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room 12 Seat Lounge W/Bar 14 Seat Lounge Observation

CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars were owned by four railroads the CB&Q, D&RGW, WP and a lone 10-6 sleeping car owned by the PRR used as a through car. The following lists the new VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR sleeping cars by owning road.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September - November 1948 Plan: 9509 Lot: 9659 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

423 SILVER POINT

424 SILVER SHORE

425 SILVER BUTTE

426 SILVER CLIFF

427 SILVER FALLS

428 SILVER VALLEY

D&RGW

1130 SILVER PASS

1131 SILVER SUMMIT

1132 SILVER GORGE

1133 SILVER CREEK

1134 SILVER GLACIER

WP
861 SILVER ARROYO

862 SILVER CANYON

863 SILVER MOUNTAIN

864 SILVER PALISADE

865 SILVER RANGE

866 SILVER BAY

867 SILVER SURF

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Budd Company November 1948 Plan: 9520 Lot: 9662-031 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

PRR

8449 SILVER RAPIDS

16 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October - November 1948 Plan: 9507 Lot: 9639 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

400 SILVER MAPLE

401 SILVER LARCH

D&RGW

1120 SILVER ASPEN

1121 SILVER PINE

WP

871 SILVER PALM

872 SILVER POPLAR

24 SEAT VISTA DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 12 SEAT LOUNGE W/BAR 14 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1948 - January 1949 Plan: 9511 Lot: 9660 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
375 SILVER HORIZON

376 SILVER PENTHOUSE

377 SILVER SOLARIUM

D&RGW

1145 SILVER SKY

WP

881 SILVER CRESCENT

882 SILVER PLANET

Shortly after the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR entered service a decision was made to equip the one Drawing Rooms annex with a shower for passengers using the most expensive sleeping car space on the train. The installation of the showers was done in Chicago on the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR layovers by CB&Q maintenance crews. The Budd Company supplied kits and it took the CB&Q crews about 12 hours for each shower installation.
The VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR added a new sleeping car to each consist in August 1952. This was an all room sleeping car with 6 Double Bedrooms and 5 Compartments. With the addition of these cars the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR offered Sections with Uppers and Lowers, Roomettes, Double Bedrooms, Compartments, and a single Drawing Room. Two Double Bedrooms could be opened up ensuite for additional Drawing Room space if necessary otherwise there was just the one drawing room with its own private shower. The addition of the all room sleeping car to each consist gave more private room space to the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.
6 DOUBLE BEDROOM 5 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Budd Company July - August 1952 Plan: 9534 Lot: 9641 - 112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

450 SILVER DOVE

451 SILVER QUAIL

452 SILVER THRUSH

D&RGW

1135 SILVER GULL

WP

851 SILVER CRANE

852 SILVER SWALLOW

In addition the CB&Q purchased four additional sleeping cars for CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR service. With each CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR arriving in Chicago in the AM and not departing until the next afternoon, sleeping cars from the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR were able to operate to Omaha- Lincoln overnight in the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR with the additional sleeping cars of 1952. The returning AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR from the west would give up its sleeping cars for that days departing VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Due to this arrangement the CB&Q was able to operate two trains by buying only one additional set of sleeping cars. The sleeping cars operated in the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR were lettered for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Those cars purchased for the additional sleeping car section of the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR were two 10-Roomette 6 Double Bedroom cars, one 16 Section Sleeping car and a 234 seat Vista Dome 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room 12 Seat Lounge w/bar 13 seat Lounge Observation. In addition to the new Sleeping cars for the joint AK-SAR-BEN - CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR operation the CB&Q received 12 other new sleeping cars for other CB&Q overnight services as follows.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company June 1952 Plan: 9531 Lot: 9660-112 (Built for and assigned to the following CB&Q trains)

AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR

431 SILVER DALE

436 SILVER SLOPE

BLACKHAWK

432 SILVER ISLE

433 SILVER MEADOW

434 SILVER PLAIN

435 SILVER PRAIRIE

VISTA - DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR
AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR

429 SILVER CRAG

430 SILVER CHASM

6 SECTION 6 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company August - September 1952 Plan: 9530 Lot: 9658-112 (Built for and assigned to AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR and BLACKHAWK)

AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR

460 SILVER FLOWER

462 SILVER HYACINTH

463 SILVER IRIS

465 SILVER TULIP

BLACKHAWK

461 SILVER GLADIOLA

464 SILVER ORCHID

16 SECTION SLEEPING CAR Budd Company September 1952 Plan: 9532 Lot: 9639-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR pool)

402 SILVER CEDAR

24 SEAT VISTA - DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 12 SEAT LOUNGE W/BAR 13 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1952 Plan: 9533 Lot: 9659-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR pool)

378 SILVER LOOKOUT

The BLACKHAWK was the CB&Q overnight train between Chicago and St. Paul-Minneapolis. It was an assortment of heavyweight cars and lightweight stainless steel cars for much of its career and ran combined with the GN WESTERN STAR and NP MAINSTREETER as well. The BLACKHAWKS operated with two of the previously mentioned lightweight streamlined 10-6 Sleeping cars in each consist and one of the new 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars in each consist. The ^ section 6 Roomette 4 double Bedroom cars were built with the Bedrooms in the center of the car with Roomettes located at one end and Sections at the other end of these cars.
Beginning February 1, 1953 the CB&Q inaugurated two new streamliners the KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR between Chicago and Kansas City with a connecting service between St. Joseph and Brookfield in each direction. This was a daylight operation so carried no sleeping cars. The other new train on that date was the AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR an overnight train between Chicago and Kansas City with a section to and from St. Joseph split or joined at Brookfield. Consists of the initial streamlined AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS follow.

9969 EMD E8A 2,250 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9936A EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel passenger Cab Unit (St. Joseph - Chicago)

996 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

1581 Heavyweight Storage Mail Car

1033 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car

4733 SILVER SPEAR 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

321 SILVER PATIO 24 Seat Vista dome 28 Revenue Seat Coach Buffet 28 seat Coffee Shop - Lounge Car

462 SILVER HYACINTH 6 Section 6 roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

436 SILVER SLOPE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

465 SILVER TULIP 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

4734 SILVER SWORD 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

SECOND CONSIST

9964 EMD E8A 2,250 HP Diesel Passenger cab Unit

9932B EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

1012 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car
(Chicago - St. Joseph

1586 Heavyweight Storage Mail Car

998 Heavyweight Baggage - Express Car

4732 SILVER SHIELD 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

320 SILVER GARDEN 24 Seat Vista Dome 28 Revenue Seat Coach Buffet 28 Seat Lounge Car

460 SILVER FLOWER 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

431 SILVER DALE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

463 SILVER IRIS 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

4731 SILVER SHAFT 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

In June 1951 the Great Northern introduced an all-new Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. Initially the CB&Q owned none of the cars of the 15 car consists. The CB&Q did own one complete consist of the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER equipment that now operated as the WESTERN STAR a secondary train between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. In September 1953 the Great Northern transferred one complete set of the new EMPIRE BUILDER equipment to the CB&Q. Sleeping cars transferred to the CB&Q with no change of numbers were as follows.

6 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 2 COMPARTMENT SLEPPING CARS Pullman Standard October - November 1950 Plan: 4180 Lot: 6877 (Built for GN Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to CB&Q ownership September 1953)

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS

1378 FIREBRAND PASS

1382 BLEWETT PASS

4 SECTIONS 1 COMPARTMENT 7 DUPLEX ROOMETTES 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November - December 1950 Plan: 4181 Lot: 6889 (Built for and assigned to GN Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to CB&Q ownership September 1953)

1266 SHEYENNE RIVER

1269 POPLAR RIVER

1273 PEND ORIELLE RIVER

In 1954 the Northern Pacific added Dome Coaches and Dome Sleeping cars to the NORTH OAST LIMITED. At the same time the new Raymond Loewy paint scheme of two tone green with a white separation stripe and lettering was introduced. From that point on the NORTH COAST LIMITED was referred to as the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. Two of the new VISTA - DOME Sleeping cars from Budd were owned by the CB&Q as follows.

24 SEAT ISTA DOME 4 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 4 DUPLEX ROOMETTE SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September - November 1954 Plan: 9535 Lot: 9669 - 141 (Built for and assigned to NP VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED owned by CB&Q)

304, 305

In July 1955 the CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER a WESTERN STAR Sleeper Lounge Observation was rebuilt by Pullman to a COULEE series sleeper lounge Observation and transferred to the EMPIRE BUILDER. The same work was completed on the other Five RIVER series Sleeper Lounge Observations and all were then assigned to the EMPIRE BUILDER. The new COULEE series Observations became the only lightweight streamlined sleeper Lounge Observations with Roomettes.

4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 6 ROOMETTE 9 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION New Pullman Plan: 4109K (Rebuilt for and assigned to Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER)

CB&Q 1194 TRAIL COULEE originally CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER

On October 28, 1956 the CB&Q inaugurated new Budd built streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS overnight between Chicago and Denver in both directions using two consists. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS were the last long distance full service trains built in the United States prior to Amtrak introducing the SUPERLINERS. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS offered reclining seat leg rest Coaches, Parlor Car Service, All room first class sleeping Car service, introduced the Slumbercoach to the traveling public.
The Slumbercoach was a Budd idea whose time had come. Here was a car that could carry Coach passengers in private rooms at Coach fare plus a small room charge. No need to upgrade to first class for this car and the capacity of the new Slumbercoach was a an astounding 40 passengers. There were 24 Single Rooms and 8 Double Rooms complete with Bed, Toilet facilities, music, individual air conditioning and heating controls, and drinking water. Although the single room was smaller than a duplex Roomette there was no wasted space and surprisingly the rooms were very comfortable. The new DENVER ZEPHYR consists would receive two of these new Slumbercoaches per consist one a Chicago - Denver car the other a Chicago - Colorado Springs car. The second Slumbercoach for each DENVER ZEPHYR consist was not delivered to the CB&Q until December 1956 in time for the Christmas rush, this became the Colorado Springs car in each consist.
In addition to the Slumbercoaches the CB&Q received new 10-6 Sleeping cars and 6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment sleeping cars were also delivered by Budd for the first class sleeping car patrons of the new DENVER ZEPHYRS. The 10-6 Sleeping cars were different than previous 10-6 sleeping cars delivered to the CB&Q as the Bedrooms were in the center of the car with 5 Roomettes located at each end of the cars. As with all Budd cars built for the CB&Q they were all so called deluxe cars with full skirting. The following is the inaugural new 1956 DENVER ZEPHYRS with the two Colorado Springs Slumbercoaches sown but they were not added to the consists until December 1956. It should be mentioned that the DENVER ZEPHYR was a double destination train with four of the cars in each consist forwarded by the D&RGW ROYAL GORGE to and from Colorado Springs from Denver. This Colorado Springs service by way of Denver was faster than the direct route between Chicago and Colorado Springs provided by the Rock Island ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET.

9987A EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9993 EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1601 SILVER MAIL Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

906 ARGO Baggage Express Car

4741 SILVER REIN 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4736 SILVER BRAND 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4901 SILVER SLUMBER 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach

4737 SILVER BIT
50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

254 SILVER KETTLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 8 Seat Lunch Counter 23 Seat Coffee Shop Buffet 16 Crew Dormitory Car
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

4902 SILVER REST 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

493 SILVER RIDGE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

201 SILVER CHEF 48 Seat Dining Car

453 SILVER SWAN
6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment Sleeping Car

486 SILVER PLATEAU 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

487 SILVER HOLLOW 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

236 SILVER VERANDA 24 Seat Vista Dome 11 Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Buffet 24 Seat Lounge Observation

EASTBOUND

9990 EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9988B EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1604 SILVER POUCH Baggage 30' Railway Post Office

907 OLYMPUS Baggage Express Car

4739 SILVER HALTER 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4735 SILVER BUCKLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4900 SILVER SIESTA 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumber Coach

4738 SILVER BLANKET 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

253 SILVER CUP
24 Seat Vista Dome 8 Seat Lunch Counter 23 Seat Coffee Shop Buffet 16 Crew Dormitory Car
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

4903 SILVER REPOSE 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

485 SILVER TERRAIN 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

202 SILVER TUREEN 48 Seat Dining Car

454 SILVER PELICAN 6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment Sleeping Car

491 SILVER RAVINE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

488 SILVER BOULDER 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

235 SILVER CHATEAU 24 Seat Vista Dome 11 Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Buffet 24 Seat Lounge Observation

24 SINGLE ROOM 8 DOUBLE ROOM SLUMBERCOACHES Budd Company October 1956 Plan: 9540 Lot: 9691 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4900 SILVER SIESTA

4901 SILVER SLUMBER

24 SINGLE ROOM 8 DOUBLE ROOM SLUMBERCOACHES Budd Company December 1956 Plan: 9540 Lot: 9691 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4902 SILVER REST

4903 SILVER REPOSE

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company June - July 1956 Plan: 9538 Lot: 9641 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS with spares)

485 SILVER TERRAIN

486 SILVER PLATEAU

487 SILVER HOLLOW

488 SILVER BOULDER

489 SILVER CHANNEL

490 SILVER VALE

491 SILVER RAVINE

492 SILVER BASIN

493 SILVER RIDGE

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM 5 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September 1956 Plan: 9539 Lot: 9641 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

453 SILVER SWAN

454 SILVER PELICAN

The three 16 Section Sleeping Cars owned by the CB&Q and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR service were rebuilt to 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coaches in 1963-64 as follows. They received new 4700 series numbers but retained their original names.

November 1963

4742 SILVER MAPLE originally CB&Q 400 SILVER MAPLE

January 1964

4743 SILVER LARCH originally CB&Q 401 SILVER LARCH

February 1964

4744 SILVER CEDAR originally CB&Q 402 SILVER CEDAR

The CB&Q purchased a pair of used 24 Single 8 Double Room Slumbercoaches from the NP in March 1965 and retained their NP numbers and names as follows.

CB&Q 335 LOCH ARKAIG ex NP 335 LOCH ARKAIG originally NYC 10802

CB&Q 336 LOCH AWE ex NP 336 LOCH AWE originally NYC 10803

CB&Q owned VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED Sleeping Car 304 was remodeled in May 1967 to a Vista Dome Cocktail Lounge In The Sky Sleeping car with two of the under dome Single rooms were removed replaced by a Buffet. The Dome seating was replaced with 24 seats at tables for four. The car was renumbered 380 after completion of the work. Car 380 and the others rebuilt to Vista Dome Cocktail Lounge In The Sky cars were operated at the rear of all VISTA DOME NORTH OAST LIMITED train sets.
All CB&Q lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars passed to Burlington Northern ownership in the 1970 merger of the GN, NP, SP&S, CB&Q, C&S, and FW&D railroads. Many of the former CB&Q lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars were assigned BN numbers, but not all numbers were actually painted on the cars before Amtrak took over the nations passenger trains in 1971. At that time all BN lightweight-streamlined Budd built sleeping cars passed to Amtrak.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Good to see ya Rob! Rebounded well from our 1st Annual "Our" Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in Toronto, eh[?] [swg] Was a blast and have been thinking all about our 2nd . . . . Let's hope the bar survives the next 11 months! [tup]

Art I've traveled between St. Louis and Chicago many times by Amtrak for pleasure. The scheduling is hardly "friendly," but I don't mind. Actually, just being on the train is all I require to "make my day!" [swg]

Usually have 4 hours or more to "kill" while awaiting the afternoon departure of the "Texas Eagle" - my preferred train because of the Superliners (sighteer car & diner) - and have ridden the "El" just for the fun of it. Always had a vehicle with me when up there on business - now that I'm long retired - those days are gone, gone, gone!

It's a great city and one of America's truly last holdouts for all aspects of rail travel . . . .

Later! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[artpeterson]

Hi Tom -

Well, schedule your next trip with some extra time before or after the game(s) and get in some train-miles in and around town. Even under public administrations, CTA, Metra and NICTD (South Shore) can still be entertaining rides and worth experiencing. In terms of going to/from baseball at either Wrigley or Sox (US Cellular), CTA is the best way to access the parks. Metra is advertising to build a stop at 35th on the Rock Island, just a block from the park, so it'll be a few years before they're an option.

[trolleyboy]

Morning guys. Art You are right on in your info on those 600's. Five power cars and one trailer. The trailor was a two motor car. These were the last interurbans built in Canada. They only ran for maybe 5 yeasr in Windsor before moving on the the MS&C. The MS&C and te NS&T were both CN owned electrics so when the St Lawrence Seaway ended the ooperations on the MS&C the cars moved onto Ontario. 4 of te power cars and the trailer. Either 621 or 622 was sold to the Seashore Museum in Kennebunkport where it still is today. still operational if my info is correct the rest were scrapped in '57 after the NS&T stopped electric passenger operations. Their frieght motors worked until '61 before CN dieselized the NS&T district. I have a soft spot for the curved siders as well, just beautifull cars. I'd love to repatriate that MS&C car to our musuem in Ontario but I'm afraid that te cost would be prohibitive, we did trade them one of our surplus Witt's for a LE&N interurban combine ( 797 ) almost twenty yeasr ago now. http://www.hcry.org Our museum's website if you are interested.

Tom' n'Al Interesting info on the C&NW and the NP passenger train connections as well. [tup]


Rob

[siberianmo]

Hi Al 'n Art

Had no clue, Al - only YOU would provide such in depth "stuff," which is always appreciated . . . .

Chicago, one of my most-favorite cities. Spent many, many days 'n nights there - but not for train riding - mostly business and watching baseball 'n hockey! [swg]

Anyway, Rob is the traction aficionado from "Our" Place and next time he stops by, I'm sure he'll pick up on your comments.

Appreciate your sticking with us . . .

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[artpeterson]

Hi Tom -

Responding to your earlier message, Chicago-born & raised. On the subject of St. Louis, like so many other cities, SLPS had a wide variety of cars and line types in its day (lasting even into the postwar-era). Of course, the same was true of Chicago! At least things like the "L", the South Shore and Metra Electric (ex-IC lines) have survived to this day. Attempts to re-introduce streetcars to Chicago (the Circulator project of several years ago) stalled; frankly the Circulator would have been over-engineered and difficult to operate successfully had it gone forward as conceived.

[passengerfan]

Tom I know that it was C&NW but did you know that the C&NW hauled NP trains between Chicago and the Twin Cities prior to the purchase of the CB&Q by the GN and NP.
Anyway here is my belated C&NW posting.

CHICAGO
&
NORTH
WESTERN
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The C&NW had many streamlined observations operate over its Omaha-Chicago line until October 1955 wearing the streamliner colors of the Union Pacific. Only two of those Overland Route Observations became the property of the C&NW.
Only two streamlined Observations wore the C&NW YELLOW and Green scheme and they were built for the first streamlined 400s.
The two 400 streamlined Observations were the first owned by the C&NW being delivered by Pullman Standard in September 1939 numbered 7200 and 7201. These two streamlined Observations began service bringing up the markers of new ten-car diesel powered 400 trains September 24, 1939 between Chicago and the Twin Cities. The interiors of 7200 and 7201 featured 12 revenue Parlor seats Bar 20 seat lounge 9 seat Lounge in the rounded Observation end. This author always found these two streamlined Observations less than attractive with the raised bump at the Observation end. When showing a friend pictures of these two streamlined Observations he remarked they looked like warts on the roof at the end. I wouldn't go that far but they certainly detracted from the overall appearance of these cars. They spent their entire C&NW operating service lives on the TWIN CITIES 400s and made the final trips of that train July 23, 1963. Both cars were sold to the NdeM in 1964 with 7200 becoming NdeM 374 CLUB ISAAC ROMERO MALPICA and 7201 becoming 375 CLUB JOSE MARIA CARDENAS.

12 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR BAR 20 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE 9 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Round) Pullman Standard September 1939 (Built for 400s later renamed TWIN CITIES 400s)

7200, 7201

The other two C&NW owned streamlined Observations were built by Pullman Standard in November 1940 for assignment to a CITY OF LOS ANGELES and the other to a CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO train set. Both cars were Pullman owned until 1945 when they became the property of the C&NW. BALDY MOUNTAIN was the Observation assigned to one of the CITY OF LOS ANGELES consists and RUSSIAN HILL was the car assigned to one of the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO trains. Both cars were identical with 4 double Bedrooms a Buffet and 31-seat lounge Observation. They were Blunt ended and had a slight overhanging bulge at the rooftop. This made these blunt end type Observations very unattractive as well. One wonders whether the same designer at Pullman Standard was responsible for all four C&NW streamlined Observations.
There is an interesting story that surrounds one of these Observations and the late Wisconsin U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy. Senator McCarthy who believed their was a communist hiding behind every tree in America was boarding a C&NW train in Chicago one day in 1951 for a trip to his home State. After he was seated in his car he glanced out the window and saw the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO on an adjacent track getting ready for departure as well. But what really caught his eye was the Observation with the name RUSSIAN HILL on its side just across the platform from where he was seated. The next day the C&NW Chicago headquarters received a letter from Senator McCarthy demanding the car be renamed. Just as the Senator wished when the car returned to Chicago the name was changed to HOOVER DAM. I find this story most interesting as one could get a letter overnight between Chicago and Milwaukee in 1951 and in 2003 it generally takes two to three days. But one must remember the bulk of the mail traveled by train in 1951.
Both cars were returned to the C&NW in October 1955 and shortly thereafter they were sold to the NdeM.

4 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 31 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Pullman Standard November 1940 Plan: 4096A Lot: 6636 (Built for and assigned to CITY OF LOS ANGELES and CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO)

BALDY MOUNTAIN

RUSSIAN HILL

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #19

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (CB&Q) Burlington Route



Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage:

1950: 11,000 (includes subsidiaries, Fort Worth & Denver and Colorado & Southern)

Locomotives in 1963:

Steam: 10 Diesel: 691

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 41,099 Passenger cars: 925

Principal lines in 1950:

Aurora, IL-Minneapolis, MN via Rochelle, IL
Chicago-Omaha-Denver via Lincoln, NE
Galesburg, IL-Kansas City & St. Joseph, MO via Quincy, IL
Savanna & Rock Island, IL-Paducah, KY
Burlington, IA-St. Louis via Quincy
Omaha-Kansas City via St. Joseph
Napier, MO (St. Joseph)-Oxford,NE
Table Rock, NE-Billings, MT via Lincoln
Billings-Galveston, TX via Thermopolis & Cheyenne, WY & Denver
Ashland, NE-Sioux City, IA
Galesburg-Peoria, IL
Kansas City-St. Louis (trackage rights on GM&) Kansas City-Mexico, MO)

Passenger trains of note:

Afternoon Zephyr (Chicago-Twin Cities)
Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr (Chicago-Lincoln)
American Royal Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City)
Black Hawk (Chicago-Twin Cities
California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland, CA; jointly operated with D&RGW and WP)
Denver Zephyr (Chicago-Denver-Colorado Springs
Empire Builder (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, jointly operated with GN and SP&S)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago-Oakland; jointly operated with DR&GW and WP; replaced by California Zephyr in 1949)
Kansas City Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City)
Mainstreeter (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, operated jointly with NP and SP&S)
Morning Zephyr (Chicago-Kansas City
Nebraska Zephyr (Chicago-Lincoln)
North Coast Limited (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, jointly operated with NP and SP&S)
Pioneer Zephyr (West Quincy-Hannibal, MO)
Sam Houston Zephyr (Dallas-Houston)
Texas Zephyr (Denver-Dallas)
Western Star (Chicago-Seattle & Portland, jointly operated with GN and SP&S)
Zephyr Rocket (Minneapolis-St. Louis; jointly operated with RI


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[siberianmo]

Hi Al

Theme today was C&NW but the NP info fits well . . . [tup]

Check out this URL on the C&NW

http://chicago.railfan.net/cgi/photos.pl/?page=CNW

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

My contribution to this thread for the day is.

NORTHERN
PACIFIC
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Northern Pacific purchased six lightweight streamlined Sleeper Lounge Observations from Pullman Standard to equip the six consists of the streamlined NORTH COAST LIMITED. The NORTH COAST LIMITED was the oldest name train operating to the Pacific Northwest. Each of the new Sleeper Lounge Observations featured 4 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment Buffet 26-seat Lounge Observation. Five of the six Observations were NP owned while the sixth was CB&Q owned who operated the NORTH COAST LIMITED between Chicago and St. Paul. Originally the cars were named for Business or Civic Clubs located along the NP ARLINGTON CLUB, MONTANA CLUB, RAINIER CLUB, SPOKANE CLUB, TACOMA CLUB and the CB&Q MINNEAPOLIS CLUB.
In 1954 the cars were shopped and repainted in the new Raymond Loewy two tone green paint scheme and were remodeled at the same time. The remodeling was to the lounge area and did not alter the seating capacity. As the cars returned to service they received numbers only replacing the names as follows.

390 originally RAINIER CLUB

391 originally ARLINGTON CLUB

392 originally TACOMA CLUB

393 originally SPOKANE CLUB

394 originally MONTANA CLUB

CB&Q

483 originally MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

The CB&Q car was no longer needed for NORTH COAST LIMITED service as the schedule was reduced making it possible for five train sets to provide daily service. The CB&Q 483 was repainted silver and used on the rear of many ZEPHYRS as a substitute until finally retired and sold to a private owner.
The NP owned Sleeper Lounge Observations were retired from the NORTH COAST LIMITED in January 1967 and sold over the next few months to private owners.

4 DOUBLE BEDROOMS 1 COMPARTMENT BUFFET 26 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard June - July 1948 Plan: 4120 Lot: 6781 (Built for and assigned to NORTH COAST LIMITED)

NP

ARLINGTON CLUB

MONTANA CLUB

RAINIER CLUB

SPOKANE CLUB

TACOMA CLUB

CB&Q

MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

TTFN Al