A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!

[BudKarr]

Good Morning Captain Tom . . .

Looks pretty "normal" around here since my last visit, aside from the fact that Al is among the missing. Hope it is temporary - and yes, I received your e-mail.

Just wanted to show my "face" over here as a measure of support, then head on over to the bar. I have quite a bit to catch up on . . . .

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high mountain country!

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's something previously Posted on this Thread and over at the bar . . .

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #45

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific (Rock Island) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Now! Beat the Winter Crowds to

SUNSHINE LAND!

. . . . . . . . . . The Golden State . . . . . . . . . .
Direct – CHICAGO to LOS ANGELES

Serving El Paso, Douglas, Tucson, Phoenix and Palm Springs

A perfect travel combination for your winter holiday – luxurious Golden State streamliner via the low-altitude Golden State Route!

Here’s smooth Diesel Speed; finest of private room and sectional Pullman accommodations; latest type reclining-seat Chair Cars. Coffee-Shop-Lounge, Dining Car, Lounge Car. Through Sleeping Cars from New York and St. Louis. Extra fare – and worth it!

. . . . . THE IMPERIAL . . . Chair Cars
. . . . . and Pullmans to San Diego – Los Angeles.
. . . . . Tourist Sleepers to Los Angeles. Dining and
. . . . . Lounge Cars. No extra fare.

. . . . . . . . . . ROCK ISLAND LINES . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Road of Planned Progress . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Touched one of my favorite trains. So how about this.
CRI&P/SP
GOLDEN STATE
(January 4, 1948)

The Rock Island / Southern Pacific GOLDEN STATE between Chicago and Los Angeles by way of Kansas City, Tucumcari, El Paso, Tucson, Phoenix, and Yuma became streamlined and diesel powered on January 4, 1948. Never able to match the time keeping of rival Santa Fe’s SUPER CHIEF or EL CAPITAN, or Union Pacific’s CITY OF LOS ANGELES. The GOLDEN STATE route was never able to compete for speed but for direct service to Phoenix, Tucson, Yuma, or El Paso the GOLDEN STATE was the train to take. The GOLDEN STATE in spite of its slower schedule to end points than its rivals was never the less a fine train and for many years had operated as an all-Pullman train. On January 4, 1948 the GOLDEN STATE began operating on a 45-hour schedule between Chicago and Los Angeles behind diesel power and advertised as streamlined. The new Red and Silver Paint scheme was introduced at that time with the red running from roof to the bottom of the windows and Silver was the color of the lower half of the cars. Only the Southern Pacific would own diesels painted to match in the red and silver scheme but they were soon repainted in DAYLIGHT colors. All of the lightweight streamlined sleeping cars were pre-war and the rest of the cars were a mixture of streamlined and heavyweights painted to match. The trains would not be completely streamlined until 1949-50. Rock Island operated the GOLDEN STATE behind their power between Chicago and Tucumcari, New Mexico and Southern Pacific assigned their diesels from that point to Los Angeles. An exact consist of the GOLDEN GATE would be difficult to list as they were almost constantly changing. The prewar sleeping cars were of two types 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Cars owned by both the Rock Island and Southern Pacific as follows:

ROCK ISLAND

GOLDEN DESERT
GOLDEN DIAL
GOLDEN DREAM
GOLDEN FLEECE
GOLDEN HOUR
GOLDEN SUNSET
GOLDEN WEST

SOUTHERN PACIFIC
GOLDEN CAVERN
GOLDEN CRAG
GOLDEN MISSION
GOLDEN MOON
GOLDEN RIVER
GOLDEN STRAND
GOLDEN TRAIL

The other prewar sleeping cars assigned to the GOLDEN STATE train sets were 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom cars again with Rock Island owning seven and the Southern Pacific owning six as follows:

ROCK ISLAND
GOLDEN BANNER
GOLDEN CHARIOT
GOLDEN DOME
GOLDEN LOCKET
GOLDEN MESA
GOLDEN PLAZA
GOLDEN TERRACE

SOUTHERN PACIFIC

GOLDEN CANYON
GOLDEN CLOUD
GOLDEN CREEK
GOLDEN PLAIN
GOLDEN SEA
GOLDEN VALLEY

Both CRI&P and SP provided 48 seat Coaches as follows:

ROCK ISLAND

339 GOLDEN HARP
340 GOLDEN FLUTE
341 GOLDEN BELL
342 GOLDEN TRUMPET
343 GOLDEN LUTE
344 GOLDEN CYMBAL
345 GOLDEN CHIME
346 GOLDEN LYRE
347 VALLE VERDE
348 VALLE VISTA
349 VALLE MAR

SOUTHERN PACIFIC

2428 GOLDEN VEIN
2430 GOLDEN SAND
2431 GOLDEN LODE
2437 GOLDEN ORE

The Rock Island also provided the following lightweight streamlined cars.

FIESTA COFFEE SHOP TAVERN CARS
410 GOLDEN
GOBLET
411 GOLDEN BOWL
412 EL CAFÉ

36 SEAT DINING CARS
425 GOLDEN
BANQUET
426 GOLDEN
REPAST
427 GOLDEN
HARVEST
428 EL COMEDOR

BAGGAGE 21 CREW DORMITORY CAR
820

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BARBER SHOP BUFFET 26 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION
478 GOLDEN VISTA
479 GOLDEN DIVAN

Where the Rock Island had completed streamlining of the GOLDEN STATE the opposite was true for the Southern Pacific only the previously listed SP cars were streamlined in time for the GOLDEN STATE streamlined inaugural. The Southern Pacific assigned heavyweight cars for their part until late 1949 when the remaining lightweight streamlined cars for GOLDEN STATE service arrived for the Southern Pacific.
By September 1950 the five train sets operating in GOLDEN STATWE service were as follows .All cars are SP unless shown (CRI&P)

CONSIST ONE
3100 Baggage 21 Crew Dormitory Car

2399 GOLDEN NUGGET 44-seat Leg-Rest Coach

2377 GOLDEN ORE 44-seat Leg-Rest Coach

10402 GOLDEN TRENCHER 32-seat Coffee Shop 14-seat Lounge Bar Car

2401 GOLDEN FLAKE 44-seat Leg-Rest Coach (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Chicago)

GOLDEN CHARIOT (CRI&P) 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

9160 GOLDEN CREEK 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (St. Louis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

10206 GOLDEN CHALICE 36-seat Dining Car

2984 GOLDEN VIEW 39-seat Bar –Lounge Barber Shop Stewardess Room Shower Bath Car

9402 GOLDEN ORANGE 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

9110 GOLDEN MISSION 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Phoenix)

9115 GOLDEN STRAND 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Tucson)

9055 GOLDEN DAWN 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car Blunt End

CONSIST TWO

6015 (CRI&P) Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

342 GOLDEN TRUMPET (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

343 GOLDEN LUTE (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

411 GOLDEN BOWL (CRI&P) 32-seat Coffee Shop 16-seat Bar Lounge Car

344 GOLDEN CYMBAL (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

GOLDEN PLAZA (CRI&P) 6-Section 6- Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles

9158 GOLDEN SEA 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (St. Louis – Kansas City - Los Angeles)

426 GOLDEN REPAST 36-seat Dining Car

LA PALMA (CRI&P) 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GOLDEN SUNSET (CRI&P) 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Phoenix)

9113 GOLDEN MOON 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Tucson)

9048 GOLDEN STAR 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

479 GOLDEN DIVAN (CRI&P) 2-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing Room Barber Shop Bar 9-seat Lounge 14-seat Lounge Observation

THIRD CONSIST

3401 Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

2400 GOLDEN BAR 44-seat Leg Rest Coach

2378 GOLDEN SAND 44-seat Leg Rest Coach

10403 GOLDEN LADLE 32-Seat Coffee Shop 14-seat Lounge Bar Car

348 VALLE VISTA (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

GOLDEN DOME (CRI&P) 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

9161 GOLDEN CANYON 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (St. Louis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

10207 GIOLDEN VIAND 36-seat Dining Car

2985 GOLDEN OUTLOOK 39-seat Bar-Lounge Barber Shop Stewardess Room Shower Bath Car

9403 GOLDEN POPPY 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

9117 GOLDEN TRAIL 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Phoenix)

9116 GOLDEN CAVERN 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Tucson)

9056 GOLDEN WAVE 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car Blunt End

FOURTH CONSIST

820 (CRI&P) Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

345 GOLDEN CHIME (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

346 GOLDEN LYRE (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

412 EL CAFÉ (CRI&P) 32-seat Coffee Shop 16-seat Bar Lounge Car

347 VALLE VERDE (CRI&P) 48-seat Coach (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles

GOLDEN BANNER (CRI&P) 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

9159 GOLDEN PLAIN 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (St. Louis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

428 EL COMEDOR (CRI&P) 36-seat Dining Car

LA QUINTA (CRI&P) 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment Sleeping Car

GOLDEN HOUR (CRI&P) 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago - Phoenix)

9114 GOLDEN CRAG 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Tucson)

9046 GOLDEN SUN 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

480 LA MIRADA (CRI&P) 2-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing Room Barber Shop Bar 9-seat Lounge 14-seat Lounge Observation

FIFTH CONSIST

6014 (CRI&P) Baggage 21-Crew Dormitory Car

339 GOLDEN HARP (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

340 GOLDEN FLUTE (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach

410 GOLDEN GOBLET (CRI&P) 32-seat Coffee Shop 16-seat Bar Lounge Car

341 GOLDEN BELL (CRI&P) 48-seat Leg Rest Coach (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

GOLDEN LOCKET (CRI&P) 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Minneapolis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

9157 GOLDEN VALLEY 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (St. Louis – Kansas City – Los Angeles)

425 GOLDEN BANQUET 36-seat Dining Car

LA JOLLA (CRI&P) 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

GOLDEN DESERT (CRI&P) 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Phoenix)

9111 GOLDEN RIVER 4-Compartment 4-Double Bedroom 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car (Chicago – Tucson)

9047 GOLDEN CREST 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

478 GOLDEN VISTA 2-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing Room Barber Shop Bar 9-seat Lounge 14-seat Lounge Observation



The GOLDEN STATE operated its final run March 7,1968.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

[#welcome] Al

Great having you back at the bar and over here . . .

Apprecaite the support of this Thread and that Golden State fits right in! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[M636C]

Arthur Dubin's "Some Classic Trains" lists a number of the CRI&P cars as being built for the proposed "Golden Rocket" train, and the SP E7s were also intended for this train. The Red and Silver colour scheme was intended for the "Golden Rocket" too, of course.

Dubin's book gives a set of plans for the "Golden Rocket" and on seeing them, I suddenly realised that a train based on the "Golden Rocket" was built in Australia, and ran as an overnight sleeping car train with leg rest coaches until last year!

In 1946, the South Australian Railways Chief Mechanical Engineer, a MR C.B. Anderson, visited the United States on a study visit, and clearly was able to obtain drawings of the "Golden Rocket" cars, which he used to build a similar train in the SAR workshops in Islington, Adelaide, South Australia. Even the same red and silver colours were used, and although the cars were shorter (75') and slightly narrower(9'9") (which made lowering the berth in the roomette with the door closed impossible except for very slim passengers!). Like the "Golden Rocket", the sleepers were "all compartment" or "all roomette", rather than the 10+6 style more common in the USA. These, built in 1949, were the first roomette cars in Australia. Two differences in the colour scheme were that the roof was black rather than red, and the fluted stainless panels between the windows and letterboard were left unpainted.

The train was called "The Overland" and ran from Melbourne to Adelaide on the 5'3" gauge until 1995 when the line and the train were converted to standard gauge. Even the SAR cab units were all painted like the SP E7s.

Sadly the train was repainted to all silver in 1995, and the sitting cars still run three days a week in each direction between Melbourne and Adelaide with the same train name.

M636C

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Nice Post from M636C whoever and where ever you are![swg] Anonymity works for some, I guess.

Anyway, your input is precisely what I had hoped would occur on this Thread way back on Page 1 - unfortuantely, far too many simply haven't participated and we may be coming to the end of the line . . . . Appreciate your thoughts.

So, this is my "day off" at the bar, as the guys are pitching in to provide me with a break. Nice, eh[?] We've got a great bunch at "Our" Place! However, we are far more interactive and inclusive than most other Threads on the Forums.

So, let's see - what's for today[?] How about another Fallen Flag [?]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #5

A Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

St. Louis-San Francisco (Frisco)



Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 5,100

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 286
Passenger: 23
Switchers: 102

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 17,889 Passenger cars – 230

Principal routes in 1950:

St. Louis-Quanah, TX
Kansas City-Birmingham, AL via Ft. Scott, KS
St. Louis-Memphis
Amory, MS-Pensacola, FL
Monee, MO-Paris, TX
Sapulpa (Tulsa) OK-Dallas/Ft. Worth
Fort Scott-Afton, OK
Kansas City-Springfield, MO via Clinton, MO
Monett-Ellsworth, KS
Tulsa-Avard, OK
Nash, MO-Hoxie, AR

Passenger trains of note:

Black Gold (Tulsa-Fort Worth)
Firefly (Kansas City-Oklahoma City)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Jacksonville)
Memphian (St. Louis-Memphis)
Meteor (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Fort Smith, AR)
Oklahoman (1st iteration) (Kansas City-Tulsa)
Oklahoman (2nd iteration, 1965-67) (St. Louis-Oklahoma City)
Southland (Kansas City & St. Louis-Atlanta & Pensacola)
Texas Special (St. Louis-San Antonio & Forth Worth)
Will Rogers (St. Louis-Oklahoma City & Wichita, KS)

Of note:
Southern Railway handled trains east of Birmingham.
MKT (Katy) handled the Texas Special between Vinita, OK and Texas destinations.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[BudKarr]

G'day Captain Tom!

Just left the bar and wanted to see what the situation is like over here. A visitor with something interesting to say! Now that is promising . . . . no name or location though? Also noted, no way to communicate via email either . . . makes one wonder. But, I digress.

Nice selections for the past several Fallen Flags. Always enjoy your efforts.

I must be heading back . . . Enjoy the day 'off'!! [tup]


BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high mountain country!

[passengerfan]

In keeping with the Frisco theme thought I would add this.

ST. LOUIS
SAN FRANCISCO
(FRISCO)
Streammlined Observations
by Al

The StL/SF owned three lightweight streamlined Observations built by Pullman Standard and delivered in 1948.
The first of these was a 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 21 seat Lounge Observation numbered and named 1350 JOSEPH PULITZER. This was actually one of a pair of identical observations delivered at the same time. The other was the M-K-T owned 1400 STEPHEN F. AUSTIN. These two cars brought up the markers of the jointly owned and operated TEXAS SPECIAL trains when they were streamlined beginning May 16, 1948 between St. Louis and San Antonio overnight. The TEXAS SPECIALS operated over the StL/SF between St. Louis and Vinita, Oklahoma and from there to San Antonio over the KATY. The TEXAS SPECIAL was discontinued on the FRISCO in January 1959 and the train thereafter became a Kansas City - San Antonio train operated by the KATY only. The FRISCO assigned the 1350 JOSEPH PULITZER to the KANSAS CITY FLORIDA SPECIAL off and on for a period after it's TEXAS SPECIAL days were over.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 21 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard May 1948 Plan: 4121 Lot: 6769 (Built for and assigned to TEXAS SPECIAL)

StL/SF

1350 JOSEPH PULITZER

M-K-T

1400 STEPHEN F. AUSTIN

The other two lightweight streamlined Observations owned by the FRISCO were built at the same time by Pullman Standard as the 1350 JOSEPH PULITZER. These two Observations were Dining Lounge Observations and were assigned to the two consists of the FRISCO METEOR. The METEOR was the StL/SF overnight train between St. Louis - Tulsa - Oklahoma City. Later this service was extended to Lawton, Oklahoma. The two cars delivered in May 1948 to the FRISCO featured a Kitchen Pantry 24 seat Dining Room and 21 seat Lounge Observation. The two cars were numbered and named 1550 TULSA and 1551 OKLAHOMA CITY. Both cars were shopped in April 1960 and rebuilt without observation ends. A diaphragm was fitted at the former Observation end and the cars were thereafter used mid-train. Both cars were retired and sold in 1967.

KITCHEN PANTRY 24 SEAT DINING ROOM 21 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard May 1948 (Built for and assigned to METEORS)

1550 TULSA

1551 OKLAHOMA CITY

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Nice Post from 20 Fingers! - back in "form"" [tup][tup]

My final contribution for the day . . . .

Frisco #2022 [(foto credit: unknown)



Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #6

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)

Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL

Route mileage in 1950: 5,528

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 28,847; Passenger cars – 405

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL

Passenger trains of note:

East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion – Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)

Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.

Other carrier’s trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami – South Wind – Flamingo – Dixie Limited – Dixie Flyer – Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning

Like the ACL so her is my contribution.

ATLANTIC
COAST
LINE
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Atlantic Coast Line owned a total of eight lightweight-streamlined Observations Budd built all and all featured the same interior configuration.
This interior was a Tavern lounge seating 36 followed by the Bar and 21 seat Lounge Observation.
The first two delivered were round end Observations and were delivered by Budd in late November 1939 in time for the new CHAMPIONS December 1, 1939 inaugural. The new CHAMPIONS were initially seven car coach streamliners operating daily service in each direction between New York and Miami. Since three sets of equipment was necessary for daily operation of the CHAMPION the FEC provided the third CHAMPION consist. The PRR operated the CHAMPIONS between New York and Washington, the RF&P operated the trains between Washington and Richmond. South of Richmond the trains operated on their own rails of the ACL to Jacksonville where they were forwarded beyond by the FEC to Miami.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR 21 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Round) Budd Company November 1939 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

ACL

250, 251

FEC

BAY BISCAYNE

The above two ACL Observations 250 and 251 would be the only two round end types ever owned by the ACL. Observation 250 lasted less that four years being destroyed in an accident in July 1943. The car was subsequently retired and scrapped.
Observation 251 would have its round Observation end squared off and a diaphragm installed in 1952 to match all other ACL Observations.
Budd delivered three-square ended or blunt ended Observations to the ACL in December 1940 for operation mid-train in the expanded CHAMPIONS that now served both coasts of Florida daily. A West Coast section of the renamed TAMIAMI CHAMPION with the new blunt end Observation served Tampa from New York operating independently south of Jacksonville. The original ACL and FEC round end Observations continued to operate on the rear of the lengthier TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS between New York and Miami.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR 21 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Budd Company December 1940 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS later renamed TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS)

252 - 254

In 1946 the ACL inaugurated separate CHAMPIONS having dropped the TAMIAMI CHAMPION name after the accident that had destroyed Observation 250. One CHAMPION was now called the WEST COAST CHAMPION and one was called the EAST COAST CHAMPION. Both trains operated separately between New York and Florida. The last three Tavern Lounge Observations 255-257 built for ACL were delivered by Budd in May 1947.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR 21 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Budd Company May 1947 (Built for and assigned to CHAMPIONS)

255 - 257

TTFN Al

[LoveDomes]

G'day Tom!

Well, 20 Fingers beat me to the punch - so to speak! Fine stuff from both of you this morning . . . nothing I can come up with to equal or top it. However, check this out:


Atlantic Coast Line book



Until the next time! [tup]

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's a little something of interest:


Atlantic Coast Line ad (1945) (source unknown)



Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[artpeterson]

Thanks for the SLSF and ACL posts; has MKT been a "theme" in the recent past, or is it yet to come?

[passengerfan]

A liitle more on the ACL for those interested.

Atlantic
Coast
Line
(ACL)
Streamlined Dome Cars
by Al

In December 1965 the Atlantic Coast Line leased three dome sleeping cars for the winter from the B&O they were returned in April 1966. These three cars originally built for the C&O and their stillborn CHESSIE never entered C&O service instead they were sold to the B&O. The B&O numbered and named the Strata-domes 7600 MOONLIGHT DOME, 7601 STARLIGHT DOME and 7602 SUNLIGHT DOME. These were originally numbered C&O 1850-1852 respectively. The B&O assigned the three to the CAPITOL LIMITED and SHENANDOAH for service between Washington and Chicago. The CAPITOL LIMITED received one Strata-dome for each of its two consists while the third Strata-dome operated every other day in one of the two SHENANDOAH consists.
The Atlantic Coast Line leased the Strata-domes for the 1965-66 winter season and assigned them one per consist to the winter only FLORIDA SPECIAL between Richmond and Miami. The Strata-Domes were restricted to service south of Richmond due to height restrictions entering Washington from the south off of the RF&P. It is not known if the ACL considered the cars a success or not, but after the merger into the SCL these cars were purchased in September 1969 and once again assigned to winter service in the FLORIDA SPECIAL between Richmond, Virginia and Miami, Florida.


TTFN Al

[JanOlov]

Where's the plans for the Pullman passenger cars today, both heavies and light weights??

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom

I just left the bar and once again find myself dropping by to see what is going on here.

My oh my, that is indeed a rather strange posting from one Sir JanOlov. What in the world do you think he is referring to[?] Perhaps he found himself on the wrong thread.

On to other matters - the Atlantic Coast Line. Surely an interesting chapter in U.S. railroading history, and thanks to your efforts over at the bar with the Fallen Flag and RR from Yesteryear features, I feel as if I "know" that railroad! [swg] Not bad for one who had zero interest in railroading when we first "met." [tup]

My offering:


Atlantic Coast Line 4-8-4 #1808 (credit: H.L. Broadbelt)


BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high mountain country!

[LoveDomes]

Hiya Tom

Nice 'steamer' BK! Never saw that one B4 - you must've done some "digging!" [swg]

Not much out there on the ACL, at least that I could find without all kinds of restrictions for use.

Haven't a clue what that guy was referring to - I noted that he had a bunch of posts all within a short time frame and on our Forum at that.. Just the way it goes sometimes . .

Lots JOs out today with their surveys, questions and the like . . . .


Until the next time!

Lars

[passengerfan]

Nice to see Lars and Budkarr over here today.

Still in keeping with the ACL I offer this.

ATLANTIC
COAST
LINE
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
By Al

The Atlantic Coast Line owned a total of 54 lightweight streamlined sleeping cars. Another 29 lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars were owned by the PRR, FEC, and RF&P and assigned to ACL trains between New York City and Florida. Two of the ACL owned sleeping cars were constructed for assignment to the DIXIELAND a Midwest - Florida streamliner. The ACL not only purchased new lightweight streamlined sleeping cars but also purchased several used lightweight streamlined sleeping cars from other roads, notably the C&O and NYC. Notable streamlined trains of the ACL assigned lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars were the CHAMPIONS, and the winter season all Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL. Other ACL trains were equipped with some lightweight streamlined sleeping cars as well such as the VACATIONER, and MIAMIAN in later years.
It would be the fall of 1949 before the first lightweight streamlined sleeping cars began arriving on the ACL. These sleeping cars were owned by not only the ACL but by the FEC, RF&P, and PRR whose lines the ACL Florida streamliners transited enroute between New York and Florida. The PRR was responsible for the ACL trains between New York and Washington where they traveled behind the famous PRR GG-1 Electric Locomotives. From Washington to Richmond the ACL trains traveled over the double track mainline of the RF&P before gaining home rails. The ACL double track mainline stretched from Richmond, Virginia to Jacksonville, Florida and was the fastest track on the east coast between those points. Trains were able to operate at speeds of 100 mph if necessary to make up time and to assure on time arrivals, this exceptional track work with ATC installed was completed in the late 1940's following WW II. South of Washington diesels were assigned to the trains to and from Florida and came from a pool of ACL, RF&P, and FEC EMD E passenger units. The ACL CHAMPIONS were originally all coach streamliners but received heavyweight sleeping cars before WW II. The train names were changed to TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS and departed both northbound and southbound as two separate trains. The TAMIAMI CHAMPION #1 and #2 operated between New York and Florida's East Coast to Miami. The TAMIAMI CHAMPION #91 and #92 operated between New York and Tampa - St. Petersburg. The new trains were inaugurated May 2, 1941 southbound and May 4, 1941 northbound. Between June 6, 1941 and July 15, 1941 Pullman shopped seventeen heavyweight Pullmans and gave them a special paint job for service in the TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS. This paint scheme was silver with Black trucks and underbody, Purple letter boards with gold leaf lettering PULLMAN centered in that letter board. The heavyweight sleeping cars repainted and assigned to the new TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS follow:

10 SECTION 1 DRAWING ROOM 2 COMPARTMENT HEAVYWEIGHT SLEEPING CARS

CAPE COD

CAPE FERELLO

CAPE FORTUNA

CAPE LOOKOUT

CAPE SABLE

FORT AMADOR

FORT DODGE

10 SECTION 2 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM HEAVYWEIGHT SLEEPING CARS

ROLLINS COLLEGE

SOUTHERN COLLEGE

VASSAR COLLEGE

WASHINGTON COLLEGE

8 SECTION 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM HEAVYWEIGHT SLEEPING CARS

CLOVER BANK

CLOVER BLOOM

CLOVER CREEK

6 SECTION 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM HEAVYWEIGHT SLEEPING CARS
POPLAR SUMMIT

POPLAR TRAIL

POPLAR VALLEY

The ACL assigned the sleeping cars to the TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS as follows:

TAMIAMI CHAMPION
#1 - #2

POPLAR SLEEPER
New York City
Miami

CLOVER SLEEPER
New York City
Miami

CAPE or FORT SLEEPER
Washington
Miami

TAMIAMI
CHAMPION
#91 - #92

CAPE or FORT SLEEPER
New York City
St. Petersburg

COLLEGE SLEEPER
New York City
Tampa

After a disastrous wartime accident the ACL dropped the name TAMIAMI CHAMPIONS and thereafter the trains were known as the EAST COAST and WEST COAST CHAMPIONS. Sleeping cars returned to the WEST COAST CHAMPION following WW II and lightweight streamlined sleeping cars were assigned beginning December 16, 1949. The EAST COAST CHAMPION remained Coach only until the spring of 1950 when it received sleeping cars from FLORIDA SPECIAL after that train completed its winter only operational season. The EAST COAST CHAMPION for many years would only carry sleeping cars in the summer season between New York and Miami. The ACL operated both the All Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL and MIAMIAN winter months between New York and Miami. Another all coach train for many years was the heavyweight VACATIONER between New York and both coasts of Florida.
The All-Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL did not receive lightweight streamlined sleeping cars until December 16, 1949 winter season the year it became fully streamlined. It is interesting to note that the All Pullman Florida Special was the only streamlined all Pullman All Room train that was never assigned a lightweight streamlined Observation.
The first new lightweight stream-lined sleeping cars assigned to ACL trains were a group of forty-two 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom sleepers delivered by Pullman Standard to the ACL (25), FEC (11), RF&P (4) and PRR (6). All of these cars carried the Purple letter boards of the ACL with the owning roads name displayed. The six PRR cars were built to a slightly different plan then the other three roads 10 - 6 sleepers.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September - October 1949 Plan: 4140B Lot: 6809 (Built for and assigned initially to the FLORIDA SPECIAL and WEST COAST CHAMPION trains)

ACL
ALACHUA COUNTY

BEAUFORT COUNTY

BERKELEY COUNTY

CHATHAM COUNTY

CLARENDON COUNTY

COLLETON COUNTY

CUMBERLAND COUNTY

DARLINGTON COUNTY

DUVAL COUNTY

EDGECOMBE COUNTY

GLYNN COUNTY

HARNETT COUNTY

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY

MARION COUNTY

NASH COUNTY

NASSAU COUNTY

NORTHAMPTON COUNTY

OSCEOLA COUNTY

PINELLAS COUNTY

POLK COUNTY

PRINCE GEORGE COUNTY

PUTNAM COUNTY

SEMINOLE COUNTY

SUMTER COUNTY

WARE COUNTY

FEC

BAHAMIAN

CAPARRA

COLUMBIA

CUBA

HAVANA

HONDURAS

ORIENTE

RF&P

CAROLINE COUNTY

HANOVER COUNTY

SPOTSYLVANIA COUNTY

STRATFORD COUNTY

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October 1949 Plan: 4140 Lot: 6809 (Built for and assigned initially to FLORIDA SPECIAL and WEST COAST CHAMPION trains)

PRR

8345 CHESTER COUNTY

8346 BALTIMORE COUNTY

8347 BUCKS COUNTY

8348 DELAWARE COUNTY

8349 UNION COUNTY

8350 HUDSON COUNTY

Pullman Standard delivered ten sleeping cars with 21 Roomettes in September - October 1949 as well. These cars were owned five by the ACL and two each by the FEC and PRR with the remaining car RF&P owned all carried the Purple letter board of the ACL Florida trains. These cars were initially assigned to the WEST COAST CHAMPION and FLORIDA SPECIAL.

21 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September - October 1949 Plan: 4156 Lot: 6809 (Built for and assigned initially to FLORIDA SPECIAL and WEST COAST CHAMPION trains)

ACL

EDISTO ISLAND

PARRIS ISLAND

ROANOKE ISLAND

ST. SIMONS ISLAND

SULLIVANS ISLAND

RF&P

BYRD ISLAND

FEC

SALVADOR

URUGUAY

21 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September - October 1949 Plan: 4156A Lot: 6809 (Built for and assigned to ACL trains)

PRR

8298 GOVERNORS ISLAND

8299 STATEN ISLAND

In addition the ACL received six BEACH series 6 Double Bedroom Buffet 24 seat Lounge cars with two additional for the FEC and one for the RF&P. These cars were built by American Car & Foundry and delivered in November - December 1949 for ACL Florida service. Unlike Pullman Standard these AC&F built cars had separate lot numbers for each of the roads. These cars were initially assigned to the CHAMPIONS and the winter only FLORIDA SPECIAL.

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24 SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry November - December 1949 Plan: 9002 (Built for and assigned to ACL trains)

ACL (Lot: 3090)

MYRTLE BEACH

PASS-A-GRILLE BEACH

PONTE VEDRA BEACH

SEA ISLAND BEACH

VIRGINIA BEACH

WRIGHTSVILLE BEACH

FEC (Lot: 3095)

MAGNOLIA

OLEANDER

RF&P (Lot: 3093)

COLONIAL BEACH

A group of ten cars with a rather odd interior configuration with 14 Roomettes and 2 Drawing Rooms was built for the Florida trains by AC&F and delivered in February - March 1950. Six of these sleeping cars were ACL owned two were PRR owned with one each owned by the RF&P and FEC. These cars were assigned to the WEST COAST CHAMPION and winter only FLORIDA SPECIAL. As with the previously mentioned AC&F built cars they carried different Lot numbers for each road.

14 ROOMETTE 2 DRAWING ROOM SLEEPING CARS American Car & Foundry February - March 1950 Plan: 9006 (Built for and assigned initially to FLORIDA SPECIAL and WEST COAST CHAMPION trains)

ACL (Lot: 3091)

ASHLEY RIVER

CAPE FEAR RIVER

COOPER RIVER

MANATEE RIVER

OGEECHEE RIVER

SUWANEE RIVER

RF&P (Lot: 3094)

FAIRFAX RIVER

FEC (Lot: 3096)

PANAMA

PRR (Lot: 3098)

8359 ANACOSTIA RIVER

8360 HACKENSACK RIVER

The new sleeping cars were assigned that first winter to only two trains the FLORIDA SPECIAL and the WEST COAST CHAMPION. Both of these trains required three sets of equipment to maintain daily operation in both directions. Of the forty-two 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom sleeping cars delivered thirty-nine were assigned to those two trains. Each FLORIDA SPECIAL was assigned eight and each WEST COAST CHAMPION was assigned five. Of the ten 21 Roomette cars delivered six or two per consist were assigned to the FLORIDA SPECIAL and three or one per consist to the WEST COAST CHAMPION. The FLORIDA SPECIAL was assigned two 6 Double Bedroom Bar 24 seat Lounge cars per consist and the WEST COAST CHAMPION was assigned one of these cars per consist this accounted for all nine of these cars built.
The ten 14 Roomette 2 Drawing Room cars were added to both the FLORIDA SPECIAL and WEST COAST CHAMPION trains after their delivery in February - March 1950. Each FLORIDA SPECIAL was assigned two per consist and each WEST COAST CHAMPION consist received one.
After the winter season ended the EAST COAST CHAMPION received Sleeping cars that had operated in the FLORIDA SPECIAL. Each winter the EAST COAST CHAMPION would revert to an All-Coach streamliner with the streamlined sleeping cars returning to the FLORIDA SPECIAL.
In October 1950 the ACL received four 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars from the C&O who had over ordered and had a surplus of these cars. These cars were easily recognizable in whatever ACL train they were in as the Bedrooms were all located in the Middle of the car with five roomettes at each end over the trucks. The cars were assigned COUNTY series names by the ACL as follows.

BRYAN COUNTY originally C&O 2617 CITY OF BECKLEY

DILLON COUNTY originally C&O 2616 CITY OF RONCEVERTE

HALIFAX COUNTY originally C&O 2615 WHITE SULPHUR SPRINGS

VOLUSIA COUNTY originally C&O 2618 CITY OF ALDERSON

The ACL having withdrawn the 21 Roomette sleeping cars from the FLORIDA SPECIAL were operating foreign cars in this train with Bedrooms, Compartments and Drawing Rooms as this space was more in demand. By 1961 the ACL had made the decision to rebuild the 14 Roomette 2 Drawing Room Cars to 7 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room cars for the FLORIDA SPECIAL. The work on the six ACL owned cars was completed before the 1961-62 winter season and they were renamed in the BIRD series as follows:

New Plan 9018
7 Double Bedroom
2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car Conversions

April 1961

RICE BIRD
originally ACL MANATEE RIVER

July 1961

BLUE BIRD
originally ACL
CAPE FEAR RIVER

HUMMING BIRD
originally ACL
OGEECHEE RIVER

SURF BIRD originally ACL
SUWANEE RIVER

September 1961

HONEY BIRD
Originally ACL
ASHLEY RIVER

October 1961

JAY BIRD
Originally ACL
COOPER RIVER

Having operated off line 4-4-2 sleeping cars in the winter only FLORIDA SPECIAL for a number of years the ACL turned to the used car market to upgrade the FLORIDA SPECIAL for its upcoming 75th anniversary. The NYC sold six prewar streamlined 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars to the ACL in October 1962 and before entering ACL service the cars were painted and the interiors were remodeled to 4 Compartment 4 Drawing Rooms. The cars were assigned RIVER series names and operated in the FLORIDA SPECIAL winters and CHAMPIONS in the summer. They were assigned two per consist to the FLORIDA SPECIAL.

CAPE FEAR RIVER ex NYC 10024
GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE
Originally NYC IMPERIAL FOREST

KISSIMMEE RIVER
Ex NYC 10031
RIP VAN WINKLE BRIDGE
Originally NYC IMPERIAL FOUNTAIN

MANATEE RIVER
Ex NYC 10029
SUSPENSION BRIDGE
Originally NYC
IMPERIAL ARCH

ORTEGA RIVER
Ex NYC 10022
BAY BRIDGE
Originally NYC
IMPERIAL FALLS

SAVANNAH RIVER
Ex NYC 10021
BEAR MOUNTAIN BRIDGE
Originally NYC
IMPERIAL CASTLE


SUWANEE RIVER
Ex NYC 10025
HIGH BRIDGE
Originally NYC
IMPERIAL MANSION

The ACL merged with long time rival SAL in 1967 and the Seaboard Coast line was born. All former ACL and SAL Sleeping car ownership was transferred to Hamburg Industries in July 1969 and leased back to the SCL for operation.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Now THAT was a looooooooooong Post from 20 Fingers and quite reminiscent of those days where some of the guys went "bonkers" with their requests for Parts 'n Sections. You're back in the saddle again, eh AL[?] [swg]

Good work! [tup][tup]

Here's a "nite cap" from me . . . .

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #80

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Seaboard Air Line Railway (SAL) in a 1916 advertisement from my private collection:



Shortest

Most Attractive Route to

Florida

Georgia

Cuba

and the

Carolina Resorts

Where to spend the winter is answered in our Resort, Hotel, Golf, and Sports Guides. For Excursion Rates

W. E. CONKLYN
General Eastern Passenger Airport
1164 Broadway, New York

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Sorry Tom will do the long ones in sections in future.

Start with a split into section SAL posting

SEABOARD
AIR
LINE
Dtreamlined Observations
by Al

The SAL fleet of SILVER streamliners operated with fifteen stainless steel Observations as part of these trains, built and delivered to the railroad by the Budd Company of Philadelphia. Of the fifteen Observations three were built as blunt end cars with a diaphragm installed. Two were rebuilt from Swallow tailed to Blunt end Observations with diaphragms installed and five other swallow-tailed observations were fitted with an adapter for mid-train use and a diaphragm was installed.
The first lightweight streamlined Observation arrived from Budd in January 1939 and featured an interior with 48 revenue coach seats and a 17-seat lounge Observation. This Observation numbered 6400 was the last car in a seven car coach streamliner the new SILVER METEOR inaugurated February 2, 1939 between New York and Miami and New York and St. Petersburg on a six day cycle with one day off before starting the cycle over again.

48 REVENUE SEAT COACH 17 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed) Budd Company January 1939 (Built for and assigned to first SILVER METEOR)

6400

Two additional Observations 6401 and 6402 arrived from Budd in December 1939 as part of seven car coach streamliners. Besides the two train sets there were three additional cars that provided the SILVER METEOR service to St. Petersburg on a weekly basis. Between New York and Wildwood, Florida the St. Petersburg cars operated in one of the Miami bound SILVER METEOR consists southbound and northbound. From that point the St. Petersburg cars operated as a separate section of the SILVER METEOR to and from St. Petersburg.
The three SILVER METEOR train sets permitted the SAL daily SILVER METEOR service between New York and Miami to meet the competition from ACL-FEC who introduced there own daily New York - Miami streamliners the CHAMPIONS on December 1, 1939.

48 REVENUE SEAT COACH 17 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) Budd Company December 1940 (Built for second and third SILVER METEOR consists)

6401, 6402

An order for fifteen cars arrived from Budd in December 1940; part of this order was for three Blunt end Observations with 30 Revenue coach seats and a 20-seat lounge in the Observation end numbered 6500 - 6502. These fifteen cars plus the three previous cars from 1939 made up the new daily St. Petersburg sections of the SILVER METEOR. The expanded SILVER METEORS were now thirteen cars in length between New York and Wildwood. The first six cars with the Blunt end observation were the New York - St. Petersburg cars and the last seven cars were the New York - Miami cars.

30 REVENUE SEAT COACH 20 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) Budd Company December 1940 (Built for and assigned to new York - St. Petersburg section of SILVER METEORS)

6500 - 6502

In May 1943 the 6400 was rebuilt to a Blunt ended Observation with no change in seating. In this manner the 6400 could be operated as a St. Petersburg car or Miami car if necessary.

End Part One

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #7

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Seaboard Air Line (SAL)

Headquarters: Norfolk, VA

Route mileage in 1950: 4,146

Locomotives in 1963: Diesels – 531

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 27,560; Passenger cars – 446

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Homestead, FL (Miami) via Columbia, SC & Jacksonville & Auburndale, FL
Coleman-St. Petersburg, Fl
Hamlet, NC-Savannah, GA
Norlina, NC-Norfolk
Hamlet-Birmingham, AL
Savannah, GA – Montgomery, AL
Baldwin-Chattahoochee, FL
Baldwin-Gross, FL (bypass of Jacksonville)
Waldo-Sulphur Springs, FL
Plant City-Fort Myers, FL
Durant-Venice, FL
Hull-Port Boca Grande, FL
Valrico-West Lake Wales, FL

Passenger trains of note:

Cotton Blossom (Washington, DC-Atlanta)
Gulf Wind (Jacksonville-New Orleans)
New York-Florida Limited (New York-Miami)
Orange Blossom Special (New York-Miami)
Palmland (New York-Tampa & Boca Grande, FL)
Silver Meteor (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Ft. Myers)
Silver Comet (New York- & Portsmouth, VA-Birmingham)
Silver Star (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Boca Grande, FL)
Sunland (Washington & Portsmouth-Miami & Venice; formerly Southern States Special, Sun Queen & Camellia)
Suwannee River Special (Cincinnati-Florida destinations)

Of note: SAL passenger trains were handled by RF&P & PRR north of Richmond.
L&N handled the Gulf Wind west of Chattahoochee.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Guess it's time for Part 2 of the SAL Streamlined Observations.

In July 1947 the Budd Company delivered six new swallow-tailed Observations to the SAL with 36 seat Tavern lounges a bar and 20-seat lounge in the observation numbered 6600-6605. These cars were assigned to New York - Miami service bringing up the markers of the SILVER METEOR and later assigned to the SILVER STAR a second daily New York - Miami streamliner.
Two of the prewar Coach Lounge Observations were then assigned to the other new postwar streamliner the SILVER COMET between New York and Birmingham daily.
Five of these observations 6600 - 6604 were fitted with an adapter on the swallow tailed end and a diaphragm was installed. They still retained the look of a swallow-tailed Observation but with the adapter and diaphragm they could be used mid-train if necessary.

36 SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE BAR 20 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-tailed) Budd Company July 1947 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR and SILVER STAR)

6600 - 6605

The last three lightweight streamlined Observations acquired by the SAL were used cars purchased in November 1965 from the FEC. The FEC after a prolonged strike discontinued passenger trains finally got around to selling their cars and the majority of these cars were purchased by the SAL. Many of the former FEC cars had operated in the CHAMPIONS, FLORIDA SPECIAL, and other ACL trains. Through service to Miami for ACL trains was provided by the SAL since the strike.
Two of the former FEC Observations were 36 seat Tavern Lounge Bar 20 seat Lounge Observations nearly identical to the postwar Observations purchased by the SAL 6600 - 6605. Seaboard Air Line assigned the numbers 6606 and 6607 to the two ex FEC cars as follows.

6606 originally FEC LAKE WORTH

6607 originally FEC BAY BISCAYNE

The former FEC LAKE WORTH was originally assigned to the HENRY M. FLAGLER of 1939 later operated in the DIXIE FLAGLER.
The former FEC BAY BISCAYNE was assigned to the CHAMPIONS between New York and Miami.
The third Observation purchased by the SAL from the FEC was the SOUTH BAY originally constructed by ACF as a dining Lounge car for operation in the Southern ROYAL PALM. In November 1956 the car was rebuilt to a 36-seat tavern lounge bar 21-seat lounge Observation with a blunt end. Windows were installed across the blunt end one either side of the center door and one in the center of the door. The car retained the name SOUTH BAY after rebuilding. The SAL assigned number 6620 to the former SOUTH BAY and it became the only non-Budd built observation on the SAL.

6620 originally FEC SOUTH BAY

On July 1, 1967 the SAL and ACL were merged creating the Seaboard Coast Line on that date.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Thanx for those two fine Posts on the Seaboard/Coast RR's . . . .

Looks like RailImages is having some problems with the images - I think they are undergoing an upgrade to their sytem. Hope it doesn't screw up the Pix already Posted on the Forums . . . [sigh]

Catch y'all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[artpeterson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by artpeterson

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

G'day!

Thanx for those two fine Posts on the Seaboard/Coast RR's . . . .

Looks like RailImages is having some problems with the images - I think they are undergoing an upgrade to their sytem. Hope it doesn't screw up the Pix already Posted on the Forums . . . [sigh]

Catch y'all later!


Thanks for all the information you provide and the images you post over here -always great to see! Was hoping to post a couple of ACL images, but I see from some of the other threads about photo posting that the images have to come off the internet.

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom

Finally! Someone other than the "threesome" has paid you a compliment for the hard work you do over at this thread. Nice going Sir Art! [tup][tup][tup]

I found something regarding the SAL given that Al seems to be engaged once again! [swg]

SAL EMD E7A #3025 (from: www.trainweb.org)


See you shortly over at the bar! [tup]

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high mountain country!

[LoveDomes]

G'day Tom . . .

Appears as if a "theme" has cropped up on this "thread!" Nice one . . .

First, my compliments to the guy who took the time to pay YOU one! [tup][tup][tup] And this from a guy WITHOUT the "requisite" profile info we all look for. Guess there are exceptions to all "rules," huh[?] [swg]

Ok - here's my contribution B4 heading over to the bar . . .

SAL EMD GP9 #1970 heading up the motive power (from: www.trainweb.org)



Until the next time!

Lars

[JanOlov]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JanOlov

Where's the plans for the Pullman passenger cars today, both heavies and light weights??

My apologies gentlemen.....I'm sorry.[:I]
What I meant was, does anyone here know what happened to Pullmans passenger car blueprints after they shut down......?

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Thanx to Art for the kind words! Much appreciated . . . [tup]

Try this URL, Jan http://www.newberry.org/collections/PullmanGuide.pdf

also recommend you do a "search" on an assortment of "search engines" for "Pullman blueprints."

Finally, great stuff from the "bookends" - Budd 'n Lars! Glad you stopped by. [tup]

Regarding RailImages.com - apparently it is a bit more "involved" than first thougth -gotta take the time to read through the requisite material they've put up on the site B4 understanding the impact on my album and the new proceures regarding Pix storage and Posting. Just what I didn't need - "homework!" [swg]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Have another two or three part piece on the SAL.

SEABOARD
AIR
LINE
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The SAL operated a fleet of coach streamliners second to none by the end of WW II the SILVER METEORS.
The most famous SAL train was the ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL an all heavyweight Pullman train. The ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL became the first SAL train assigned diesels for power an A-B-A set of EMD E4 units. With a head start like that one would have thought the ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL would have been the first SAL train to receive lightweight streamlined sleeping cars following WW II. But such was not the case the SAL never streamlined the ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL instead they chose to buy additional coach streamliners and add streamlined sleeping cars to those trains.
Premier train of the SAL became the SILVER METEOR followed by the SILVER STAR and SILVER COMET.
The SILVER METEOR was actually two trains in one carrying cars for both coasts of Florida to and from Florida. The trains split at Wildwood with the main section then continuing on to Miami and the other section running to St. Petersburg.
The second of the SILVER prefix trains to enter service was the SILVER COMET between New York and Birmingham, Alabama. Both of these trains received their first lightweight streamlined sleeping cars in 1949. Unlike most streamliners of the day that carried both Coaches and sleeping cars the SILVER COMET and SILVER METEOR sleeping cars were carried forward directly behind the Head End cars ahead of the coaches separated by a dining car. Initially the SILVER METEOR and SILVER COMET offered only Roomettes, Bedrooms and Drawing Rooms. The Drawing Rooms were Double Bedrooms opened in suite.
Three groups of lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars arrived in 1949 from three different manufacturers American Car and Foundry delivered three 6 Double Bedroom Buffet 24 seat Lounge cars in August 1949 for assignment to the SILVER COMETS between New York and Birmingham and these cars were named accordingly. Before the cars entered service the SAL reassigned them to the SILVER METEOR train sets between New York and Miami. The other two orders were both for 10-6 sleeping cars from both Budd and Pullman Standard. An interesting fact about the Pullman Standard built 10-6 sleeping cars is they were ordered with fluted stainless steel roofs to match the SILVER METEORS Budd built cars. Apparently Pullman had so many problems with these roofs they ended up ordering them from Budd. In any case Pullman Standard would accept no further orders for sleeping cars with fluted roofs. These sixteen cars with the fluted roofs built for the SAL and RF&P were probably the heaviest 10-6 sleeping cars ever constructed. Those Budd built 10-6 sleeping cars numbered 12 with six owned by the SAL and six owned by the PRR. These cars were pooled with the Pullman Standard built 10-6 sleeping cars and assigned to the SILVER METEORS and SILVER COMETS.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard May - June 1949 (Built for and to SILVER METEOR - SILVER COMET)

SAL
25 RICHMOND

26 PETERSBURG

27 NORFOLK

28 PORTSMOUTH

29 RALEIGH

30 COLUMBIA

31 SAVANNAH

32 JACKSONVILLE

33 ORLANDO

34 TAMPA

35 CHARLOTTE

36 ATLANTA

37 BIRMINGHAM

RF&P

CHESTERFIELD

ESSEX

LANCASTER

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company June - August 1949 Plan: 9503 Lot: 9660-025 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR and SILVER COMET trains)
SAL

38 ST. PETERSBURG

39 SARASOTA

40 WINTER HAVEN

41 LAKE WALES

42 WEST PALM BEACH

43 MIAMI

PRR

8333 ATHENS

8334 BRADENTON

8335 CHESTER

8336 CLINTON

8337 ATLANTA

8338 BIRMINGHAM

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 24 SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry August 1949 Plan: 9003 Lot: 3045 (Built for SILVER COMET and assigned to SILVER METEOR until 1956 then reassigned to SILVER COMET trains)

15 RED MOUNTAIN

16 STONE MOUNTAIN

17 KENNESAW MOUNTAIN

The Seaboard Air line ordered new lightweight streamlined sleeping cars in 1955 to upgrade the SILVER METEOR, SILVER STAR and SILVER COMET trains.
The first of the new cars delivered were six 4 Section 4 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 1 Compartment Sleeping cars from Budd delivered in November 1955. These six cars were assigned to the SILVER STARS the only new sleeping cars ever built for operation in this train. Each of the three consist were assigned two of the new car per consist with one a New York - Miami car the other a New York - St. Petersburg car.

4 SECTION 4 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Budd Company November 1955 Plan: 9537 Lot: 9658-168 (Built for and assigned to SILVER STAR)

50 BAY PINES

51 SOUTHERN PINES

52 PINEHURST

53 CAMDEN

54 HENDERSON

55 CEDARTOWN

From Pullman Standard came six 11 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars in December 1955 - January 1956 for assignment two per consist to the SILVER METEOR train sets. One car was a New York - Miami car the other a New York - St. Petersburg car.

11 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1955 - January 1956 Plan: 4198A Lot: 6959 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

70 OCALA

71 VENICE

72 HIALEAH

73 SEBRING

74 AVON PARK

75 TALLAHASSEE

Three 2 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars were delivered from Pullman Standard in January 1956. These three cars were built for the SILVER METEOR one per consist between New York and Miami but the cars often ran in the SILVER STAR in the winter months when the PRR assigned IMPERIAL series 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars to the SILVER METEOR.

2 COMPARTMENT 2 DRAWING ROOM 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January 1956 Plan: 4201 Lot: 6970 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

60 BOCA GRANDE

61 FORT LAUDERDALE

62 CLEARWATER

The three most talked about cars in railroad circles were the three 5 Double Bedroom Sun Lounge cars built for the SILVER METEOR trains to operate between New York and Miami. These cars featured windows in the roof of the lounge area as well as large side windows for lounge passengers to enjoy the view from. These cars were named for Florida Beaches and with their delivery at last freed the MOUNTAIN series 6 Double Bedroom Lounges for operation in the SILVER COMETS the trains they were originally intended for. The Sun Lounges were the closest thing to a dome car to operate in the Northeast corridor under the PRR wire.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 21 SEAT SUN LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January 1956 Plan: 4202 Lot: 6970 (Built for and assigned to SILVER METEOR)

18 MIAMI BEACH

19 PALM BEACH

20 HOLLYWOOD BEACH

The above were the only cars acquired by the SAL until after merger with the ACL July 1, 1967 when all sleeping cars owned by the former SAL and ACL would be consolidated under the SCL banner. In July 1969 ownership of all SCL sleeping cars was transferred to Hamburg Industries and leased back to the Seaboard Coast Line for operation. See following chapter.

TTFN Al