A Classic REAL Trains 'n Traction FOTO site!

[passengerfan]

Tom you just had to post a picture of one of the Princess California Sun Express ex Milwaukee domes. Got a tour of one of these in LA just before they entered service and travled on a Coast Starlight when one of them was bringing up the markers. When the Milwaukee owned the domes they were notorious for heat in the summer a problem they never really overcame during the summer months. The air conditioning was always overworked on the dome level. On the CN even though summers were hot it wasn't as hot as the the upper midwest US. Those owned by the CN were remodeled and looked I think better than they ever did in Milwaukee days.
When Princess purchased the cars for the Sun Express they solved the air conditioning problem by adding the extra heavy capacity units mounted on top of the domes. In addition to the regular air conditioning they were actually quite ideal for the California summers. The dome mounted air conditioners actually were special units constructed by an RV manufacturing concern although the actual air compressors were from frigidaire. The cars were absolutely magnificent as rebuilt by Princess and probaly the best they ever looked internally.
Their California Sun Express sewrvice was a failure due to high prices for what was offered. The cars operated between Los Angeles and Oakland with passengers having a side bus trip to Hearst Castle. The trips were two and three days one way and as i recall very expensive. Anyway the cars are now with their fifth and sixth owners and who knows how many years they will continue to operate for how many more owners.

TTFN AL

[passengerfan]

Tom hope this fits in today.

STREAMLINED PARLOR CARS OF THE
UNITED STATES
&
CANADA

by Al

INTRODUCTION

The lightweight streamlined Parlor car was to daytime first class rail travel what the Pullman was to overnight first class rail travel.
The railroads of the United States and Canada operated a surprising number of lightweight streamlined Parlor Cars.
Lightweight streamlined Parlor cars basically came in one of two types of seating arrangements. First there were the single swivel seats located on either side of a center aisle. This style of Parlor car seating was most popular in the East and Pacific Coast. In the Midwest many railroads operated Parlor cars with deluxe large upholstered chairs with armrests similar to that found in many Living rooms of families in America at the time. Unfortunately these plu***ype seats were generally arranged with their backs against the car sides below the windows not exactly conducive to viewing the passing countryside. All that was missing was the Ottoman and a roaring fire in the fireplace and you could have been in your own living room. One thing about this arrangement was these parlor seats were easily movable and few Parlor attendants objected to a little rearranging of the seats for viewing as long as the center aisle wasn't blocked and it didn't inconvenience the other Parlor car patrons. On many trains the last car in the train was a Parlor Observation and they generally featured some lounge seating in the Observation end for the Parlor car patrons to enjoy.
The New Haven purchased thirteen new Parlor cars that were delivered in July - August 1948 that seated 52 passengers. These cars had paired seats on one side of the aisle and single swivel seats on the other side of the center aisle. Twelve other Parlor cars were delivered at the same time with 36 Parlor seats eighteen single swivel seats on either side of the center aisle. The New Haven soon found Parlor car patrons complaining about the 2-1 seating arrangement and was forced to replace the double seats with single swivel seats to appease the irate parlor car patrons converting the 52 seat cars to 36 seat seating like the others. The conversion of these cars to 36 seat Parlor cars occurred in the first quarter of 1949.
Interestingly enough this two and one seating for Parlor car patrons would surface once again in the late 1960s and early 1970s only this time it would stay. Not on the New Haven but on the Penn Central and Canadian National. Both railroads added Airline style Galleys to their Parlor cars and called them Club cars with meals included in the fare and served at each Parlor car Patrons seat. The Canadian National railroads 2-1 seating became very popular due to the design and comfort it provided. The Canadian National even offered a complimentary glass of wine with the superb meals served in the Club cars. The caterer used for this service was CARA who also served up Air Canada airline meals as well, but those prepared for the CN Club cars were exceptionally fine fare comparable to first class food on the airline flights.
Other lightweight streamlined Parlor cars besides Parlor seating offered a single 5 seat Parlor Drawing room complete with private bathroom annex. The Parlor Drawing rooms were always popular with companies en route to a conference or trade show. Returning from these shows there were some great Poker Games played in these Parlor Drawing Rooms.
The Pennsylvania Railroad offered the famous Conference Room cars on the CONGRESSIONALS between New York and Washington. These cars with seven Conference rooms and the Telephone room provided many businesses with meeting rooms in route between the two cities and were frequented by fortune 500 companies. It is said that many major business decisions were made in these two cars.
One Northeastern railroad the New Haven not only offered Parlor Drawing Rooms but Parlor Roomettes as well for the individual wishing to have privacy to work or maybe just rest.
It is said that some of the parties that took place in the Parlor Drawing rooms became legendary. In fact many say that if this had been the age of industrial espionage a camera with microphone hidden in the Parlor car Drawing rooms would have yielded the company secrets of many fortune 500 companies. Never mind the blackmail prospects of the company president traveling to a conference with a secretary or girlfriend in the Parlor Drawing Rooms. But there was little to fear as the Parlor car attendants like there sleeping car counterparts were the last word in discretion, they upheld there patrons secrets with no fear of divulging them in the finest Parlor car attendant tradition.
Streamlined Parlor cars were conspicuous by their absence in the South Eastern United States. The one exception was the IC PANAMA LIMITED carrying a Parlor car between Jackson, Mississippi and New Orleans southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening. In fact the IC PANAMA LIMITED has the distinction of being the only streamlined train to carry two different streamlined Parlor cars in both its northbound and southbound overnight runs between New Orleans and Chicago. The southbound IC PANAMA LIMITED carried a Parlor car between Chicago and Carbondale, Illinois and the next morning picked up a streamlined Parlor car at Jackson, Mississippi for the run to its southern terminal at New Orleans. Northbound the IC PANAMA LIMITED operated with a streamlined Parlor car between New Orleans and Jackson where it was set out to await the southbound PANAMA LIMITED the next morning. The northbound IC PANAMA LIMITED picked up the streamlined Parlor car at Carbondale the next morning the same car that had been left by the previous evenings southbound IC PANAMA LIMITED. The northbound then proceeded to Chicago with this parlor car in its consist.
At one time it would have been possible to ride Parlor cars from coast to coast if one had desired and had the time. One could take the NYC EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS in Parlor cars from New York City to either Cleveland or Detroit. After an overnight stay at a hotel in either city one could travel west from Cleveland in the NYC MERCURY or leave Detroit on the same MERCURY or leave in the evening aboard the TWILIGHT LIMITED and arrive in Chicago where one could spend another night in a fine Hotel. The next day one could board one of three trains Parlor cars to Minneapolis the CB&Q TWIN ZEPHYR, C&NW 400 or CMSTP&P HIAWATHA.
At that point one could board the NP MAINSTREETER to Seattle. This train provided Parlor seating for all daytime travel segments the same parlor seating becoming additional Lounge space for sleeping car passengers at night. On the West Coast one could ride from Los Angeles to Vancouver, B.C. in Parlor cars again if one had the time. From Los Angeles one could board the SP MORNING DAYLIGHT to San Francisco or the SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT to Oakland. After an overnight stay in a hotel one could board the SP SHASTA DAYLIGHT Parlor Observation for the run to Portland, Oregon. After another overnight stay one could board the UP pool train to Seattle that for many years-featured Dome Parlor car service. After arrival in Seattle at Union Station one passed under the 4th Ave. underpass to King St. Station and boarded a waiting GN INTERNATIONAL train with Parlor Observation PORT OF SEATTLE or PORT OF VANCOUVER waiting to complete the west coast Parlor car journey. At one time the AT&SF SAN DIEGANS had offered Parlor car service as well but this had been discontinued before WW II.
Only one all streamlined Parlor car train entered service and that was the postwar NYNH&H MERCHANTS LIMITED between Boston and New York City. The dining and Lounge Observation remained heavyweights as the lightweight diners and Lounge Observations did not arrive until after the train was downgraded with the addition of coaches. All of the Parlor cars beginning in October 1948 in the MERCHANTS LIMITED were streamlined postwar cars. The MERCHANTS LIMITED probably had the shortest career as a streamlined all Parlor train for in just eight months, this once famous all Parlor car train was assigned coaches beginning June 26, 1949.
As popular as lightweight streamlined Parlor cars became they never gained the popularity their heavyweight brethren had. Like Pullman Sleeping cars the heavyweight Parlor cars were attended by Pullman personal in many cases although many more railroads operated the Parlor cars using their own car attendants. During the lightweight streamlined years of rail travel individual railroad crewmen manned many of the lightweight streamlined Parlor cars instead of the Pullman Parlor attendant.
With few exceptions the Parlor cars were trainlined at or near the rear of most trains. Exceptions were the NYC EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS that carried the streamlined Parlors directly behind the head end cars. The reason most Parlor cars were located at the rear of consists usually behind the dining cars was to keep the coach passengers from wondering through, and giving the Parlor car patrons the shortest distance to walk when boarding the train. Some trains such as the NYNH&H MERCHANTS LIMITED and PRR CONGRESSIONALS carried seven or more Parlor cars in there consist. Railroads with the greatest numbers of lightweight streamlined Parlor cars were the NYC, NYNH&H, and PRR. All New Haven and most PRR lightweight streamlined Parlor cars operated in the Northeast corridor between Boston - New York - Washington. Probably the second highest concentration of lightweight streamlined Parlor cars were operated between Chicago and St. Paul-Minneapolis in the 400's of the C&NW, TWIN ZEPHYRS of the CB&Q and HIAWATHAS of the Milwaukee Road. Third heaviest concentration of lightweight streamlined Parlor cars was between St. Louis and Chicago by the GM&O ABRAHAM LINCOLN, ANN RUTLEDGE, Wabash BLUE BIRD, and Illinois Central DAYLIGHT and GREEN DIAMOND.
Few railroads operated Parlor cars in trains that operated overnight with the exception of the CB&Q, IC, NP and SP. These four railroads' provided parlor cars operating in overnight trains, but the parlor car space was not sold after midnight. After midnight the parlor space became additional lounge space for the sleeping car passengers. The IC train as mentioned earlier did not operate the parlor car throughout the night but only operated these cars for parts of the trip.
In the case of the CB&Q it was the original DENVER ZEPHYRS of 1936 and in the new DENVER ZEPHYRS of 1956. Parlor car space was provided in these overnight trains between Denver and Chicago. The eastbound DENVER ZEPHYR sold Parlor space between Denver and Lincoln, Nebraska and the westbound DENVER ZEPHYR sold parlor space between Chicago and Omaha, Nebraska. As previously mentioned the IC PANAMA LIMITED carried Parlor cars over two different stages of their nightly runs in both directions. In the case of the Southern Pacific the overnight train that operated with Parlor cars was the STARLIGHT between San Francisco and Los Angeles. The southbound STARLIGHT sold Parlor space between San Francisco and San Jose some evidence exists that parlor space southbound was actually sold as far south as Salinas while the northbound sold parlor space between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. In any event it was not well received and was discontinued within days. The SP STARLIGHT was inaugurated October 2, 1949 with a Parlor car on the rear of each train and the parlor car was discontinued October 31, 1949. The fourth overnight train assigned parlor cars was the NP MAINSTREETER between St. Paul and Seattle. One of the car types built for this train originally was a Lounge and Parlor car. During daylight hours of this trains operation the Parlor seating was sold at parlor car rates and the lounge half of the car was operated as a lounge for the first class passengers from the sleeping cars as well as the parlor space. In the late evenings the Parlor space became additional Lounge space for sleeping car passengers. These cars soon lost their parlor car seating in any event.
Three railroads offered streamlined trains with parlor car service between the two largest cities in Texas Dallas and Houston. The SP provided two daily streamliners the HUSTLER and SUNBEAM, The CB&Q provided the SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR and the Rock Island provided the TEXAS ROCKET.
Only four Railroads provided lightweight streamlined parlor cars operating in international service between Canada and the United States. They were the Great Northern in the Northwest between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. The CNR-GTW route between Toronto and Chicago was another international parlor car route. The CPR route between Toronto and Detroit, and the D&H - NYC route between Montreal and New York.
The Canadian Railroads seemed to keep their Parlor car services in the so-called Canadian corridor between Quebec City and Windsor.
The NdeM purchased nine former NYC lightweight streamlined Parlor Observations but there is no record of them operating south of the U.S. border in Parlor Car service, instead were operated as Lounge cars.
Parlor car seating on some trains numbered as few as nine while other trains operated with two or more complete parlor cars while still others like the PRR CONGRESSIONAL operated with as many as seven parlor cars accommodating up to 223 Parlor Car passengers per trip. When the streamlined All Parlor MERCHANTS LIMITED entered service with up to ten Parlor cars and parlor seating for 301.
Streamlined Parlor cars shared car bodies with coaches where 1/2 of the car was coach seating and 1/2 was parlor seating. Other streamlined parlors shared the same car bodies with Dining, and Lounge facilities. While on at least one Railroad the Parlor seating shared a car body with Baggage space, this car rode at the front of the train. Their were also all room Parlor cars those built for the PRR CONGRESSIONALS Dome Parlors found on the Wabash BLUE BIRD and Dome Parlor Observations such as those found on the CB&Q VISTA DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS, KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS and DENVER ZEPHYRS besides once again the Wabash BLUE BIRD.
Car manufacturers American Car & Foundry, Bombardier, Budd Company, Hawker Siddeley, Montreal Locomotive Works, Pullman Standard, Rohr and St. Louis Car Company built lightweight streamlined Parlor cars. Bombardier built the L-R-C trains for VIA Rail Canada. Hawker Siddeley built the TEMPO trains for Canadian National Southwestern Ontario services. Montreal Locomotive Works built the CN Turbo trains. St. Louis Car Company built the three MU electric multiple unit Parlor Observations for the Illinois Terminal. American Car & Foundry, Budd Company and Pullman Standard constructed the bulk of all lightweight streamlined Parlor cars. As this is written three other companies have joined the ranks of Parlor car manufacturers Alstom, Talgo and Morrison Knudsen.
The Canadian Pacific built at least one streamlined Parlor car while Milwaukee Road built all of there lightweight streamlined straight Parlor cars as well as the famous Beavertail Parlor Observations and the post WWII SKYTOP Parlor Lounge observations. Several Railroads modernized and in some cases streamlined old heavyweight cars to Parlor cars, among those roads were the Baltimore & Ohio, Great Northern, Illinois Central, Lehigh Valley, Monon, New York Central and St. Louis - San Francisco. Both Canadian National and Canadian Pacific converted modern streamlined Coaches to streamlined Parlor cars the only two roads to do so.
Two manufacturers built modern narrow gauge parlor cars to a turn of the century design and are included in this article because I like them. These were WP&Y parlor cars manufactured by Coast Steel Fabricators of Vancouver, B. C. and Pacific Car & Foundry of Renton, Washington.
Those trains that operated with two or more Parlor cars consistently were the following:

ALTON - GM&O


ABRAHAM LINCOLN

ANN RUTLEDGE

B&O
ROYAL BLUE

CNR

MORNING RAPIDO

AFTERNOON RAPIDO

MORNING TURBO

AFTERNOON TURBO

C&NW

TWIN CITIES 400

CB&Q

MORNING TWIN ZEPHYR
AFTERNOON TWIN ZEPHYR

CMSTP&P

MORNING HIAWATHA

AFTERNOON HIAWATHA

IC

DAYLIGHT

GREEN DIAMOND

PANAMA LIMITED

NYC

EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS

MERCURY

NYNH&H

MERCHANTS LIMITED

YANKEE CLIPPER

PRR

CONGRESSIONAL

SENATOR

SP

MORNING DAYLIGHT

NOON DAYLIGHT

WABASH

BLUE BIRD

At the other extreme were trains like the prewar KCS SOUTHERN BELLE with nine Parlor seats and two three person Parlor Staterooms. The ten Parlor seats of the first DENVER ZEPHYRS operated by the CB&Q and the 11 parlor seats and 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room of the 1956 DENVER ZEPHYRS. The FRISCO FIREFLYS offered 10 Parlor seats.
Several Railroads owned but a single lightweight streamlined Parlor car such as the C&EI, RF&P, SP&S and UP.
Largest owner of modern streamlined parlor cars was the NYNH&H.
Many streamlined Parlor cars were simply numbered while others like sleeping cars were named or numbered and named both.
During the heavyweight era Pullman offered Parlor cars ranging from 24 seat Parlor with a 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room to 36 parlor seat cars. There were 12 seat parlor 5 seat Parlor Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Sunroom cars and just about every combination in between.
In 1941-42 Pullman sold 325 heavyweight Parlor cars to the railroads to convert to coaches or dining cars. In one case two of these cars sold to the Great Northern were converted to coaches and later after WW-II the GN shops rebuilt the two into streamlined Dining Parlor Observations assigned to the GOPHER and BADGER between the Twin Cities (St. Paul - Minneapolis) and the Twin Ports (Duluth - Superior). This is the only known example of heavyweight parlor cars first converted to heavyweight coaches and later to streamlined Dining-Parlor-Observations.
During peak travel periods like thanksgiving and Christmas many old 12-1 heavyweight sleeping cars were pressed into service as parlor cars by day and sleeping cars by night.
Many railroads felt the parlor car was a thing of the past by the time WW II ended but many had said the same thing during the great depression.
In one instance during the heavyweight car era the C&NW introduced heavyweight 400 trains between Chicago and the Twin Cities. What set these heavyweight trains apart from any other was they operated with two Parlor cars in each train set. One was Railroad owned and operated the other was Pullman owned and operated. From my research I have come to the conclusion these were the only trains in North America to operate with a railroad owned and Pullman owned Parlor car in the same consists.
Streamlined Parlor seating was introduced in the very first diesel powered three car articulated streamliner the Budd built CB&Q owned 9900 ZEPHYR of 1934, later known as the PIONEER ZEPHYR. The Union Pacific's first streamliner the M-10000 better known as the CITY OF SALINA was an all coach streamliner.
The railroad with the greatest number of named trains operating with lightweight streamlined Parlor cars was the NYNH&H who incidentally purchased the largest number of lightweight streamlined Parlor cars. The NYNH&H trains operated with lightweight streamlined Parlor cars were as follows.

NYNH&H

AMBASSADOR

BANKERS

BAY STATE

COLONIAL

GILT EDGE

MAYFLOWER

MERCHANTS LIMITED

MURRAY HILL

PATRIOT

PURITAN

SUNDOWN

YANKEE CLIPPER

42ND STREET

The only Electric Interurban line to operate streamlined Parlor cars was the Illinois Terminal. They purchased three from St. Louis Car that were Parlor Observations and assigned them to trains between St. Louis and Decatur and St. Louis and Springfield.
As the ranks of roads offering Parlor car space began to shrink some roads offered their lightweight streamlined parlor cars for sale to other roads. The MP purchased four used streamlined Parlor cars from the C&O for assignment to the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE and COLORADO EAGLE between St. Louis and Kansas City. Later when the MP discontinued parlor car services the cars were rebuilt to coaches. Another road the SP rebuilt three former parlor cars into 3/4 length Dome lounge cars in their Sacramento shops extending their operational service lives into Amtrak. Another road found that its Parlor Observations were better rebuilt to straight coaches where their was no need for the extra switching to always keep them on the rear of a consist.
When the NYC and PRR found they were short of Parlor cars they simply assigned lightweight streamlined sleeper Lounges to serve as Parlor cars. They simply changed the numbers assigned to these cars and in most cases removed the names from the cars while they were assigned to Parlor car service.
The LI railroad purchased a large number of lightweight streamlined sleeper Lounges, Sleeping Cars, and Lounge cars used from other railroads for Parlor car assignments to the far reaches of Long Island in diesel hauled trains.
Both Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada the national passenger carriers of the United States and Canada have both purchased new Parlor cars since they came into existence.
The northeastern United States was the most popular area for Parlor car operations and diminished as one traveled west. Least likely area of the United States to find streamlined Parlor cars was the southeastern area.
The most popular area for parlor cars in Canada was the so-called Canadian corridor between Quebec City and Windsor, Ontario. Parlor car service never included western Canada or the Maritime Provinces during the streamline era.
Most scenic Parlor car services the GN INTERNATIONALS service between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia. Least scenic route providing streamlined Parlor car service was that between Chicago and St. Louis on the Wabash BLUE BIRD. Fastest streamlined Parlor car service was probably the PC METROLINERS between New York and Washington, D.C. As this is written Amtrak is about to introduce the new ACELA service to the northeast that will exceed the operating speeds of the METROLINERS and consists will include parlor cars. Besides the ACELA Amtrak recently introduced Talgo trains with Parlor car service and in California Parlor cars can be found in the SAN JOAQUINS, CAPITOLS, and SURFLINERS.
Today several tourist operations operate Parlor cars most notable is the Royal Hudson tours of the British Columbia Railway. Several Museums have examples of heavyweight and lightweight Parlor cars on display that are fine examples of what Parlor cars were all about.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

[wow] That's quite a rundown on the Streamlined Parlor cars! What a way to travel and wouldn't it be nice if . . . . [?] Thanx![tup][tup]

Just to keep it going, another former Milwaukee #50, just for Al[swg]

Amtrak #9310 (1993) former Milwaukee #50 [courtesy: www.trainweb.org]


Appreciate the insights regarding car #50, always is meaningful when it comes from someone who "knows!"[tup]

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Hey Al!!

One more time! The absolute last Pix for former Milwaukee Road #50 ........

Amtrak #9310 (Auto Train) former Milwaukee #50 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)



Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

PASSENGER RR FALLEN FLAG #44

Here’s another Passenger RR Fallen Flag from Classic American Railroads:

Wabash (WRR)

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Mileage in 1950: 2,393

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 319

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 14,240
Passenger cars: 126

Principal routes in 1950:

Buffalo, NY-Detroit, MI-Fort Wayne, IN-Decatur, IL-Springfield, IL-Moberly, MO-Kansas City, MO
Chicago-Decatur-St. Louis (followed Buffalo-KC Line Bement-Decatur)
St. Louis-Moberly, MO-Des Moines, IA
Brunswick, MO-Council Bluffs, IA
Toledo, OH-Chicago
Bluffs, IL-Keokuk, IA

Passenger trains of note:

Banner Blue (Chicago-St. Louis)
Blue Bird Chicago-St. Louis)
City of Kansas City (St. Louis-Kansas City)
City of St. Louis (St. Louis-Denver-Cheyenne-Los Angeles)
Des Moines Limited (St. Louis-Des Moines)
Detroit Arrow (Chicago-Detroit)
Detroit Limited (St. Louis-Detroit)
Kansas City Express (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Midnight Limited (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Omaha Limited (St. Louis-Omaha)
Pacific Coast Special (St. Louis-Pacific Coast points)
Red Bird (Chicago-Detroit)
St. Louis Limited (Detroit-St. Louis)
St. Louis Limited (Des Moines & Omaha-St. Louis)
St. Louis Special (Kansas City-St. Louis)
The Midnight (Chicago-St. Louis)
“Wabash Cannon Ball” (St. Louis-Detroit)

Of note: Chicago-Detroit service by PRR between Chicago-Fort Wayne; through trains west of Kansas City handled by UP

WABASH CANNONBALL
(unknown author & date)

From the great Atlantic ocean to the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains to the south lands by the shore She's mighty tall and handsome and she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination on the Wabash Cannonball
Listen to the jingle, the rumble and the roar
As she glides along the woodland through the hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine, hear the lonesome hoboes call
You're traveling through the jungles on the Wabash Cannonball
Our eastern states are dandy, so the people always say
From New York to St. Louis with Chicago by the way
From the hills of Minnesota where the rippling waters fall
No changes can be taken on the Wabash Cannonball
Now here's to Daddy Claxton, may his name forever stand
And always be remembered through the courts throughout the land
His earthly race is over, now the curtains round him fall
He’ll be carried home to Glory on the Wabash Cannonball!

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[artpeterson]

Hi all -

Great to see all those Milwaukee superdomes and the cars more recent reincarnations, as well - thanks for digging up the images, info, etc. and posting them!

In following up to the Pullman piece posted earlier, I understand WGN TV in Chicago (and its super station sister) are to run a show on Pullman porters, etc. Indeed, a plug for the show aired during their news this am in Chicago. The program is supposed to air in Chicago at 8 pm cst on Saturday; not sure what time it is to air on the super station side of things.

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom

Just stopped by on the way to the bar - running just a tad late today. Weather around here isn't too bad (yet), but we're bracing for a "whopper," so they tell me! Wouldn't you just love to have a job where you can be right or wrong at least 50% of the time AND GET PAID FOR IT! Incredible.[swg]

Nice pix and Fallen Flag. Keep it up - looks like between the guys from the bar and you, we'll make this thread work out.[tup]

I see a new guy - hello artpeterson! Didn't catch very much info from your profile, but then again, mine isn't all that revealing either![swg] I'm sure Tom will appreciate your visit. By the way, if you haven't done so, check out his other thread over at a cyber bar called "Our" Place - it's on this forum of Classic Trains. You just may enjoy it.

Sorry, no pix right now. Gotta run ...

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

Hello!

A little more activity over here for a change![tup]

Greetings! artpeterson I think Lars has covered the invitation quite well![swg] Are you in or near Chicago[?] Anyway, thanx for the info ....

Here's something that may perk up some interest for a train trip!

Wabash #1601 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Okay, some more for the Wabash #1601

Wabash #1601 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

I saw Al peeking in and couldn't resist one more ......

Wabash #1601 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Now THAT's a great winter RR scene![tup]

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hey Tom!

Man! Some outstanding pix of those Wabash domes![tup] Really, really makes me want to climb aboard and move out for a long, long rail voyage.[yeah]

I saw these photos on trainweb.org (or .com) and thought they were really something else. Glad you were able to provide them for whoever is looking in!

Catch ya at the bar - I'm heading over right now for Pizza & beer nite!

Until the next time!

Lars

[artpeterson]

Hi Tom, et.al. -

Thanks for the warm reception. Nice Wabash shots, again thanks for posting them! Yes, have lived in Chicago most all my life. Work downtown, commuting by CTA every day (its more entertaining than Metra, to me at least). I'm sure part of the loyalty stems from having worked for CTA about 30 years ago, just after getting out of high school and while going to college. Have a great weekend, one and all!

[passengerfan]

Goodafternoon Tom, Lars and artperson. Just a little follow up to the picture and Wabash information.

WABASH Streamlined Parlor Cars
By Al

The Wabash owned three lightweight streamlined Parlor cars two of these were dome cars. A different passenger car manufacturer constructed each of the three Wabash lightweight streamlined Parlor cars. Pullman Company car attendants operated all three Wabash lightweight streamlined Parlor Cars.
The first of the three delivered to the Wabash was the last car in a new seven car streamliner named the CITY OF KANSAS CITY operating a daily round trip between St. Louis and Kansas City inaugurated November 26, 1947. The last car in the CITY OF KANSAS CITY was a Parlor Lounge Observation numbered 1600. American Car & Foundry built the Blue and White streamliner.

5 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 23 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION American Car & Foundry October 1947 Plan: 9001 Lot: 2769 (Built for and assigned to CITY OF KANSAS CITY)

1600

The next Waba***rain to receive streamlined equipment was the St. Louis - Chicago BLUE BIRD inaugurated February 26, 1950 on a daily round trip schedule. The BLUE BIRD was powered by a new EMD E8A and the trailing consist was six Budd Company built streamlined cars. There were three Dome coaches in the consist and the last car was a Dome Parlor Observation. The BLUE BIRD was the only train to operate between Chicago and St. Louis with Dome cars.

24 SEAT DOME 5 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 23 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company January 1950 Plan: 9525 Lot: 9652-037 (Built for and assigned to BLUE BIRD)

1601

The Wabash soon discovered the BLUE BIRD Parlor space was always sold out and with the need for additional parlor space ordered a new Dome Parlor car for service. Unfortunately the new car was built by Pullman Standard and was a smooth sided car so did not match the other six Budd built stainless steel cars of the BLUE BIRD.
Pullman Standard delivered the new car 1602 in July 1952 and it was trainlined ahead of the Budd built Dome Parlor Observation and behind the dining car.
One feature of the new car was its BLUE BIRD lounge that seated up to eleven in privacy beneath the dome and being close to the diner meals were often served their.

16 SEAT DOME 21 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 11 SEAT PARLOR LOUNGE (BLUE BIRD ROOM) CAR Pullman Standard July 1952 Plan: 7551B Lot: 6904 (Built for and assigned to BLUE BIRD)

1602

In later years the three parlor cars could be found operating in trains other than those they were built for such as the BANNER BLUE between St. Louis and Chicago.


TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Nice work, Al as usual![tup] Timing is everything in Posting and hand grenades - kind of wakes ya up, eh[?][swg]

artpeterson 2nd visit, and perhaps some more coming down the pike, we hope![tup] Over at the bar there's a guy from Chicagoland who perahps you should "meet" - you are more than welcome to stop by. It is an adult cyber bar 'n grill where the discussion most times focuses on Classic Trains with a bit of nonsense thrown in!

Al Had no idea that three different car manufacturers provided those streamlined parlor cars for the Blue Bird Pays to read what's Posted, eh[?] Never know what one will learn .....

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here's an Amtrak Pix of the former Wabash obs dome:

Amtrak #9310 (former Wabash #1601) (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Continuing on with the former Wabash obs dome . . .

Amtrak #9310 (former Wabash #1601)(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

And another on the former Wabash obs dome:

Amtrak #9310 (former Wabash #1601)(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

The final Pix on the former Wabash obs dome we've been viewing . . .

Amtrak #9310 (former Wabash #1601)(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Evening!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #56

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Canadian Pacific (CP) from a 1965 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


We’ll give your holiday a foreign flavor
. . . . . (just north of the border!) . . . . .


Rail away with us through the Canadian Rockies aboard “The Canadian.”

You’ll enjoy spectacular scenery, continental service in the comfort of a Scenic Dome streamliner as you travel the Banff-Lake Louise route between Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver.

It’s a holiday all the way – gourmet dining, tasty budget meals, snacks, all accommodations reserved.


. . . . . . . . . Canadian Pacific . . . . . . . . . .


. . . . . Trains/Trucks/Ships/Planes/Hotels/Telecommunications . . . . .
. . . . . WORLD’S MOST COMPLETE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM . . . . .


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Tom you certainly know how to get my attention when you put CPR out their. Hope you enjoy my CPR Streamlined Coach posting.


CANADIAN
PACIFIC
RAILWAY Streamlined Coaches
by AL

The Canadian Pacific Railway was Canada’s privately owned transcontinental railroad and as such presented provided one of the finest images in the transportation industry. The Canadian Pacific not only provided the fastest train service from St. John on the Bay of Fundy to Montreal by their shortcut across the state of Maine on the ATLANTIC LIMITED. But they also provided connecting steamship service across the Bay of Fundy from St. John to Digby, Nova Scotia where they connected with the Dominion Atlantic Railway that ran between Yarmouth and Halifax, Nova Scotia. From Montreal or Toronto one could board the Canadian Pacific DOMINION to Vancouver on the west coast after a spectacular trip through the Canadian Rockies. After arrival at the CP station on Vancouver’s waterfront it was a short walk to the CP docks where one could board a CP steamship for the trip to Vancouver Island at Nanaimo or Victoria the provincial capital. At either Vancouver Island port one could connect with the Esquimalt & Nanaimo Railway a wholly owned CP subsidiary that operated trains between Courteney and Victoria. For arriving passengers in Vancouver one could board other CP steam ships for Seattle or Alaska. The Canadian Pacific also provided Trans-Atlantic steamship service via their beautiful trio of postwar EMPRESS liners EMPRESS OF BRITAIN, EMPRESS OF ENGLAND, and EMPRESS OF CANADA from Europe and the British Isles to Montreal in the summer and St. John in the winter. And prior to WW II the Canadian Pacific had provided Trans-Pacific Empress services to Japan, and Hong Kong from Vancouver. After WW II the Canadian Pacific expanded their Airline into a transcontinental Airline and international Airline serving the Orient, Australia, South America and Europe.
In 1936 the Canadian Pacific Railway inaugurated their first streamlined passenger trains the VIGER, WINDSOR, ROYAL YORK and CHINOOK. A streamlined 4-4-4 Jubilee Locomotive with Tender powered each of these four trains. Each consisted of four cars with National Steel Car Company building the Baggage 30’ Railway Post office Car in each train set and Canadian Pacific constructing the Baggage Buffet 28 seat Coach, and two 36 seat Coaches in each consist. The new trains entered service on the same date September 27, 1936 and became an instant success with the traveling public. All trains were soon assigned extra cars to meet the demand of the passengers. The 4-4-4 Jubilee Locomotives were the perfect power for the four car trains and when extra cars were added they could still maintain any of the schedules with up to nine cars. The coaches and Baggage Buffet Coaches had large square windows something that would be found on all CP cars constructed through 1942. The sides were slightly rounded and they were fully streamlined in appearance. The four services the trains were assigned to was the CHINOOK between Calgary and Edmonton, Alberta round trip daily. The WINDSOR round trip daily between Montreal and Quebec City. The VIGER round trip daily between Montreal and Quebec City. The ROYAL YORK round trip daily between Toronto, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan. This latter train the ROYAL YORK was only the second streamlined train to serve Detroit the first being the NYC MERCURY. The Canadian Pacific has credited these four trains with bringing large numbers of passengers back to the rails in post depression Canada.

BAGGAGE BUFFET 28 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH FOUR TABLES Canadian Pacific Shops August – September 1936 (Built for and assigned to CHINOOK, ROYAL YORK, VIGER, and WINDSOR)
3050 – 3053

36 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Canadian Pacific Shops August – September, 1936 (Built for and assigned to CHINOOK, ROYAL YORK, VIGER, and WINDSOR)
2100 – 2107

In 1938 the Canadian Pacific shops constructed an additional 21 lightweight streamlined coaches on frames supplied by National Steel Car the same manufacturer who supplied 1936 cars frames. These coaches were 52 revenue seat cars with an 8 seat Men’s Smoking Lounge next to the Men’s room and a 7 seat Ladies Smoking Lounge next to the Ladies room. These cars like the earlier coaches built by Canadian Pacific featured curved sides, large square windows and double vestibules. These 21 cars were assigned to operate in the previous trains with six assigned to Calgary for use in the CHINOOK although they were available for other Calgary – Edmonton trains as well. The same was true for the six assigned to Toronto for service in the ROYAL YORK they were utilized in other trains from Toronto attracting even more passengers back to the rails. The remaining nine cars were assigned to Montreal and were operated in trains to Quebec City and Ottawa.

52 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Canadian Pacific Shops March – May 1938 (Built for and assigned to General Service based in Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal)
2108 – 2128

After seeing the way Canadian National handled their Smoking and Non Smoking seating by having it in separate compartments separated by a partition and door with all seats revenue seats the Canadian Pacific was convinced this was better than there method of separate smoking lounges featuring non revenue seating. The next two lots of streamlined cars for the Canadian Pacific were the wartime cars one being completed in 1941 the other being completed in 1942. Canada being a member of the British Commonwealth had been at war since September 1939 fully two years before the United States would become embroiled in the conflict. The Canadian Pacific was badly in need of additional coaches when the first twenty five of the 72 revenue seat coaches arrived in April 1941 from their own Montreal shops. These new cars featured the same curved windows and large square windows of the earlier lightweight streamlined cars. The new cars only had a single vestibule so were easy to tell from the earlier cars. The cars were divided into a 24 seat smoking compartment and 48 seat non smoking compartment. The new cars were assigned to general service and helped eliminate some of the wartime pressure for space being felt by the CPR. More were needed and the War Ministry permitted the Canadian Pacific to build an additional 25 Coaches for April – May, 1942 delivery. These fifty coaches would be the only passenger carrying cars received by the CPR in WW II, and like most roads the CPR used every car available even those they resurrected from the scrap lines to carry them through this their greatest time of need.

72 REVENUE SEAT COACHES (48 SEAT NON SMOKING 24 SEAT SMOKING) Canadian Pacific Shops April 1941 (Built for and assigned to General Service)
2129 – 2153

72 REVENUE SEAT COACHES (48 SEAT NON SMOKING 24 SEAT SMOKING) Canadian Pacific Shops April – May 1942 (Built for and assigned to General Service)
2154 – 2178

The Canadian Pacific began ordering trucks, air conditioning, bathroom fixtures and air brake parts as early as December 1944 enough for 35 Coaches. The parts would not begin arriving until late 1947 due to wartime shortages of certain materials. Before the first accessories arrived the CP ordered enough for an additional 64 Coaches. The first of the new postwar 68 revenue seat coaches began arriving from CP shops in January 1948 with the final delivery completed in May 1949. These were the first Canadian Pacific cars to feature the elongated windows more generally associated with lightweight streamlined cars. These cars featured 44 seats in the non-smoking compartment and 24 seats in smoking. The Canadian Pacific would standardize on the 24 seat smoking compartment. These cars also featured 4 wheel trucks, a single vestibule and the curved sides that became a trademark of Canadian Pacific built cars.

68 REVENUE SEAT COACHES (44 SEAT NON SMOKING COMPARTMENT 24 SEAT SMOKING COMPARTMENT) Canadian Pacific Shops January, 1948 – May 1949 (Built for and assigned to General Service on long distance trains)
2200 – 2298

Canadian Pacific would place one final order for lightweight streamlined passenger cars this time the cars would come from U.S. manufacturer Budd with Canadian Car & Foundry doing some of the final interior work and Dofasco a Canadian Company building the trucks and shipping them to Budd for installation.
Canadian manufacturers supplied all the seat materials, mattresses, and carpeting. The 172 cars ordered from Budd consisted of 18 Baggage Crew Dormitory Cars, 30 Deluxe 60 revenue seat Leg rest Coaches, 18 Skyline Domes (Revenue Coach seating for 26, Coffee shop seating 26, 24 seat Dome). Their were 18 48 seat Dining Cars, 28 CHATEAU series sleeping cars, 41 MANOR sleeping cars, and 18 PARK series Dome Sleeper Lounge Observations. Besides these cars the Canadian Pacific rebuilt 26 heavyweight 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars installing corrugated stainless steel panels over the old cars sides to match the new Budd built cars. These cars retained their clerestory roofs, double vestibules and 6 wheel trucks. The cars were painted to match the Budd built cars. These 14 section tourist sleepers were built for operation in the CANADIAN directly behind the Baggage Crew Dormitory car ahead of the 60 seat Deluxe Coach. The new cars were built to equip the new CANADIAN the transcontinental train between Montreal – Toronto and Vancouver. The two sections of the CANADIAN from Montreal and Toronto came together at Sudbury westbound and split at that point eastbound for Montreal and Toronto. The Coach section of the CANADIAN initially departed Montreal with a Baggage Crew Dormitory car, one or two “U” series 14 section Tourist Sleeping cars and the Coach seating was confined to the 26 seats in the Skyline Dome. The Toronto coach section of the CANADIAN consisted of one Baggage Crew Dormitory cars, one or two “U” series 14 section Tourist Sleeping cars, one deluxe 60 seat Coach and Skyline Dome Car. The Baggage Crew Dormitory, Skyline Dome, Dining Car and PARK dome sleeper Observation from Toronto only operated as far as Sudbury where they turned and returned to Toronto on the next eastbound CANADIAN. The Coach section west of Sudbury was made up of the Baggage Crew Dormitory car that originated in Montreal. One or two “U” series 14 section Tourist Sleeping cars that originated in Montreal, the one or two “U” series 14 section Tourist Sleeping cars from Toronto, the 60 revenue seat Deluxe Leg Rest Coach from Toronto, and the Skyline Dome car from Montreal.
The Canadian Pacific operated the ATLANTIC LIMITED with a Baggage Crew Dormitory Car, a 60 revenue seat deluxe leg rest coach, trailed by a Skyline Dome, and one or two Sleeping cars generally a MANOR series and CHATEAU series. The secondary transcontinental train across Canada operated by the Canadian Pacific was the DOMINION. This train operated with a mixture of the newer Budd cars and older cars; in fact several cars in the DOMINION were heavyweights. Eventually the CPR repainted most older cars in Silver with the Maroon letter board above the windows to more closely match the Budd built cars.
The CANADIAN earned the reputation of one of the world’s truly great trains and was definitely Canada’s finest. The Canadian Pacific would purchase Budd RDC’s for all other runs in Canada with only the CANADIAN and ATLANTIC LIMITED operating with streamlined lightweight Budd cars.

14 SECTION TOURIST SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard 1936 Rebuilt and stainless steel added by Canadian Pacific Shops 1954 (Formerly “P” series sleepers rebuilt and assigned to the CANADIAN)
UDALL

UGANDA

ULLSWATER

ULSTER

ULYSSES

UMBER

UNDERWOOD

UNICORN

UNITY

UNIVERSE

UNWIN

UPLANDS

UPSALA

UPTON

URANUS

URBAN

UREN

URQUHART

USHER

UTICA

UTOPIA

UXBRIDGE

60 REVENUE SEAT DELUXE LEG REST COACHES (36 SEAT NON SMOKING COMPARTMENT 24 SEAT SMOKING COMPARTMENT) Budd Company 1954 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN – ATLANTIC LIMITED – DOMINION)

100 – 129

SKYLINE 24 SEAT DOME CONDUCTORS SEAT 26 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACH KITCHEN 23 SEAT COFFEE SHOP CARS Budd Company 1954 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN – ATLANTIC LIMITED – DOMINION)

500 – 517

TTFN AL

[LoveDomes]

Hey Tom

Neither wind, nor ice, nor snow and more snow can keep some of us from stopping by the bar and this thread to see whazzup![swg]

Those are fine Pix of the former Wabash obs dome - especially liked that shot of the Drumhead on Amtrak! Sweet . . .

Here's a little something to add to the CP "theme" - from:www.trainweb.com:

QUOTE: In July 1954, CP received the first of 36 "Scenic Domes" from Budd, 18 sleeper - observation - Lounges, and 18 coach - buffet - lounges to equip the "Dominion" and the new "Canadian". 33 cars were on the property in 1954, with the final 3 coaches (515-517) delivered the following year.

The Canadian required 7 trainsets to serve Montreal - Vancouver, and the Dominion, due to a slower schedule, required 8 sets. Also, each train operated a Toronto-Sudbury section that was also dome equipped, thus the 18 car orders.

The "Park" series observation cars (each named after a Canadian park) were built with 3 double bedrooms, a drawing room, an under-dome cocktail bar and a lounge.

The 18 mid-train dome coaches are known as "Skyline" cars and normally provide dome space for coach passengers (in busy season they are also used to augment sleeper dome space). These dome-coffee shop cars were named as such in paying a tribute to the famous (at least in Canada) "Skyline Trail Hikers of the Canadian Rockies". This group was founded during 1933 and was comprised of a number of avid ("foamers"?) mountain climbers/hikers. Currently operating on VIA Rail, these very popular cars have the word "Skyline" on the side along with their 85XX series number.
As orginally configured they featured 26 coach seats (removable), a lounge for 17 and 24 dome seats. Under the dome section was a 6-seat buffet and a kitchen. When acquired by VIA Rail, they were reconfigured in the 1980's by removing the coach seats and replacing them with fixed cafe dining tables, seating 24. The 6-seat buffet was replaced with a snack take-out counter. Therefore, they were no longer "dome coach - buffet - lounges" but now "dome café - lounges".

Reports during the 2001 season said that the dining tables had become lounge areas, and that they Skylines were being "paired" with diners and not being utilized as diners per se.

All cars except the scrapped 15405 became VIA property in August 1978 (5 months after VIA began).

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

A bit of activity again - my faith is restored (well, almost!).[swg]

Nice input, Al and we can 'run' with the CP "theme" for a bit . . . .

Thought for sure you'd pick up on those Amtrak shots, but I think you've been rather busy elsewhere, eh[?] Hope you are trying to win us some new friends!

Good to see ya Lars - I've been checking the weather up your way and things are getting rather nasty as the night progresses. Tomorrow ought to be the story-teller, eh[?] Throw another blanket on and stay warm and dry![tup]

Good input on the CP domes - figured you'd find something for us to enjoy on THAT subject![swg]

Catch y'all in the 'morrow!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Something a bit different:




Sweden: TEE, built in 1962 by DBAG (Deutsche Bahn AG), Germany
(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)


Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the others contributing to this thread. With that in mind will add a little CPR info one of my favorite railroads.
Sorry to hear about the weather in the Northeast It was 71 here yesterday and we are going to have the same today. Sure is tough bringing out the shorts this early in the season.

CANADIAN
PACIFIC Railway Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The CPR has the distinction of being the only railroad in North America to construct lightweight streamlined first class sleeping cars in heir own shops.
This was really just a natural evolution as the CPR built many heavyweight sleeping cars in the same Angus shops located in Montreal. The sleeping cars built by the CPR were modern heavyweights during the period 1928-1931.
The cars were assigned to such trains as the IMPERIAL between Montreal and Vancouver, the DOMINION between Toronto and Vancouver and the Montreal - Chicago CANADIAN (not to be confused with the later transcontinental streamliner by this name). The SOO-PACIFIC EXPRESS between Chicago and Vancouver connected with the DOMINION westbound at Moose Jaw for the remainder of the trip to Vancouver. Eastbound the SOO-PACIFIC EXPRESS operated combined with the IMPERIAL between Vancouver and Moose Jaw.
First of the new heavyweight cars to come from Angus shops were the ten LAKE series 4 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet lounge cars in 1928.

LAKE ANNIS

LAKE CHAMCOCK

LAKE ERIE

LAKE HURON

LAKE MEGANTIC

LAKE NIPPISSING

LAKE O'HARA

LAKE ONTARIO

LAKE WINDERMERE

LAKE WINNIPEG

These were followed by the "R" series 8 Section 2 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Sleeping cars in 1929. These cars were assigned to transcontinental train services.

RAPID CITY

RATHWELL

RAVENSCRAG

RAYMOND

REDCLIFF

RED DEER

REDVERS

REGENT

REGINA

RENFREW

RENNIE

RENOWN

RESTON

RICHFORD

RIPPLES

RIVERTON

ROBINDALE

ROCANVILLE

ROMFORD

ROSEMARY

ROSEMERE

ROSENFELD

ROSETOWN

ROSSER

ROSSLAND

ROSSPORT

RUBY CREEK

RUSKIN

RUTHERGLEN


In 1931 the CPR Angus shops built three BAY series 3 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Buffet 22 seat Solarium Lounge Observations for assignment to the CANADIAN between Montreal and Chicago. These cars spent most of their operational lives in this service. They operated in the CNR-CPR pool train for the Montreal - Toronto part of their trips.

GEORGIAN BAY

JAMES BAY

THUNDER BAY

The "S" series 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleepers were delivered in 1931. These cars were assigned to trains system wide.

SALMON ARM

SALVADOR

SASKATOON

SAUGEEN

SAULT STE. MARIE

SCEPTRE

SCHRIEBER

SCOTSGUARD

SCOTSTOWN

SENTINEL

SHAMROCK

SHANNONVILLE

SHARBOT LAKE

SHAWANAGA

SHAWBRIDGE

SHAWINIGAN FALLS

SHERBROOKE

SHOAL LAKE

SHUSWAP

SILVERDALE

SILVERTON

SLOCAN CITY

SMITHS FALLS

SNOWFLAKE

SOUTHAMPTON

SOVEREIGN

SPENCERVILLE

SPUZZUM

STANBRIDGE

STAPLEHURST

STEELTON

STONEHENGE

STRATHMORE

STREETSVILLE

STURGEON FALLS

SUDBURY

SUMMERLAND

SUMMERLEA

SUTHERLAND

SWIFT CURRENT

Two other classes of 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping cars were kept in excellent shape by the CP Angus shops and even though they were heavyweights hey would serve the railroad until the 1950's. These were the N series and T series cars listed below.

NAISCOOT

NAKUSP

NAMAKA

NANTON

NAPINKA

NAPLES

NASEBOY

NAUGHTON

NAVAN

NEMEGOS

NESBITT

NESTLETON

NETLEY

NEUDORF

NEVILLE

NEVIS

NEWBURG

NEW DALE

NEW DENVER

NEWMARKET

NEWPORT

NEWSTEAD

NEWTONVILLE

NEW WESTMINSTER

NIAGARA

NICOLET

NIGHTINGALE

NINGA

NIXON

NOBEL

NORTH BAY

NORTHCOTE

NORTH PORTAL

NORTH TROY

NOSBONSING

NOTCH HILL


TABER

TADANAC

TAFT

TALON

TAPPEN

TAYLOR

TEESWATER

TELFORD

TENAGA

THESSALON

THORNE

THRUMS

THURSO

TICHBORNE

TILBURY

TILLEY

TINKER

TISDALE

TOMPKINS

TORONTO

TORQUAY

TORRENT

TRACY

TRAIL

TRAVERS

TRAYNOR

TRENTON

TRIBUNE

TRING

TROUP

TRUMP

TUDOR

TUPPER

TURBINE

TURNER

TUXFORD

TWEED

TYNDALL

Following WW II the Angus shops were busy repairing worn out cars and producing new streamlined cars. Between September 1949 and February 1950 the Angus shops built the nineteen GROVE series 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars. These were the only first class streamlined sleeping cars ever produced by a North American Railroad. The GROVE series were easily distinguishable as CPR Angus shop products by their curved sides. The cars were assigned to General Service and after giving yeoman service to the CPR were sold to the NdeM for further use.

10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS CPR Angus Shops September 1949 - February 1950 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

14101 APPLE GROVE

14102 ASH GROVE

14103 BALSAM GROVE

14104 BEECH GROVE

14105 BIRCH GROVE

14106 CEDAR GROVE

14107 ELM GROVE

14108 FIR GROVE

14109 MAPLE GROVE

14110 OAK GROVE

14111 OLIVE GROVE

14112 ORANGE GROVE

14113 PALM GROVE

14114 PEACH GROVE

14115 PINE GROVE

14116 POPLAR GROVE

14117 SPRUCE GROVE

14118 WALNUT GROVE

14119 WILLOW GROVE

Canadian Pacific began shopping for new streamlined lightweight cars in 1952. Representatives of the railroad visited each of the car manufacturers in both Canada and the United States. The group with the most enthusiasm was the group that visited Budd Companies Red Lion facility outside Philadelphia in November 1952. While their the team toured the plant and while touring the plant they happened to see the nearly complete CB&Q 378 SILVER LOOKOUT. This car was a Vista - Dome 3 double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Cocktail Lounge Observation Lounge Car destined for service in the famed CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. One look at this car and the group was sold.
They returned to Canada and began putting plans together for a train to be named the ROYAL CANADIAN for transcontinental service. Not only did the CPR order enough cars for the new ROYAL CANADIAN later called just the CANADIAN the ROYAL being dropped before the cars were even delivered, but they ordered enough of the new cars to equip the secondary DOMINION train with many of the new Budd cars. Three types of Sleeping cars were ordered from Budd the CHATEAU series with 8 Duplex Roomettes 3 Double Bedrooms 1 Drawing Room and 4 Sections. The CPR ordered 29 of these cars all named for CHATEAUS.
Another type streamlined sleeping car ordered from Budd was the MANOR series cars with 4 Roomettes 5 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment and 4 Sections, the CPR ordered 42.
The third sleeping car type ordered from Budd was the 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room 12 seat Mural Lounge Buffet 24 seat Dome 13 seat Lounge Observation PARK series cars. These cars were nearly identical to the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR car seen in Philadelphia in November 1952. The CPR ordered 18 of the PARK series cars, they were named for Canadian National and Provincial parks.

8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 1 DRAWING ROOM 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 4 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company July - November 1954 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN and DOMINION initially)

CHATEAU ARGENSON

CHATEAU BIENVILLE

CHATEAU BRULE

CHATEAU CADILLAC

CHATEAU CLOSSE

CHATEAU DENONVILLE

CHATEAU DOLLARD

CHATEAU DOLLIER

CHATEAU IBERVILLE

CHATEAU JOLLIET

CHATEAU LA SALLE

CHATEAU LATOUR

CHATEAU LAUZON

CHATEAU LAVAL

CHATEAU LEMOYNE

CHATEAU LEVIS

CHATEAU MAISONNEUVE

CHATEAU MARQUETTE

CHATEAU MONTCALM

CHATEAU PAPINEAU

CHATEAU RADDISON

CHATEAU RICHELIEU

CHATEAU RIGAUD

CHATEAU ROBERVA

CHATEAU ROUVILLE

CHATEAU SALABERRY

CHATEAU VARENNES

CHATEAU VERCHERES

CHATEAU VIGER

4 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 4 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September 1954 - February 1955 (Built for CANADIAN and DOMINION initially)

ABBOT MANOR

ALLAN MANOR

AMHERST MANOR

AYLMER MANOR

BAYFIELD MANOR

BELL MANOR

BLAIR MANOR

BLISS MANOR

BRANT MANOR

BROCK MANOR

BURTON MANOR

BUTLER MANOR

CABOT MANOR

CAMERON MANOR

CARLETON MANOR

CHRISTIE MANOR

CORNWALL MANOR

CRAIG MANOR

DAWSON MANOR

DOUGLAS MANOR

DRAPER MANOR

DRUMMOND MANOR

DUFFERIN MANOR

DUNSMUIR MANOR

ELGIN MANOR

FRANKLIN MANOR

FRASER MANOR

GRANT MANOR

HEARNE MANOR

HUNTER MANOR

JARVIS MANOR

LAIRD MANOR

LORNE MANOR

MacDONALD MANOR

MacKENZIE MANOR

MONCK MANOR

OSLER MANOR

ROGERS MANOR

SHERWOOD MANOR

STUART MANOR

THOMPSON MANOR

WOLFE MANOR

3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 12 SEAT MURAL LOUNGE BUFFET 24 SEAT SCENIC DOME 13 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company August - December 1954 (Built for and assigned to CANADIAN and DOMINION initially)

ALGONQUIN PARK

ASSINIBOINE PARK

BANFF PARK

EVANGELINE PARK

FUNDY PARK

GLACIER PARK

KOKANEE PARK

KOOTENAY PARK

LAURENTIDE PARK

PRINCE ALBERT PARK

REVELSTOKE PARK

RIDING MOUNTAIN PARK

SIBLEY PARK

STRATHCONA PARK

TREMBLANT PARK

TWEEDSMUIR PARK

WATERTON PARK

YOHO PARK

Besides the above cars the CNR Angus shops were busy remodeling twenty-two 14 Section Tourist Sleeping cars for assignment to the CANADIAN. The heavyweight tourist cars were refurbished and repainted inside. The exteriors of the cars were fitted with fluted stainless steel panels to match the exteriors of the lightweight stream-lined Budd built cars. The CPR "U" series tourist sleeping cars lasted until 1965 in the consists of the CANADIAN before being withdrawn. They were easily spotted in the trains as the clerestory roofs of theses cars were higher than the Budd cars. The CANADIANS carried three per consist and they were found forward in the train just behind the Budd built Baggage Crew Dormitory car and ahead of the coach section of the CANADIAN.

14 SECTION TOURIST SLEEPING CARS Rebuilt by CPR Angus shops between October 1954 and April 1955 (Rebuilt for and assigned to CANADIAN)

UDALL

UGANDA

ULLSWATER

ULSTER

ULYSSES

UMBER

UNDERWOOD

UNICORN

UNITY

UNIVERSE

UNWIN

UPLANDS

UPSALA

UPTON

URANUS

URBAN

UREN

URQUHART

USHER

UTICA

UTOPIA

UXBRIDGE

The Canadian Pacific purchased eight used sleeping cars from the NYC for service in the joint pool trains between Montreal and Toronto. Four of these cars were Pullman Standard built prewar 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom CASCADE series cars from the NYC. These cars were originally built by Pullman Standard in June - July 1940 to Plan: 4072C in Lot: 6610. They were given DALE suffix names for Canadian Pacific service and repainted in the Maroon color scheme.

ARMDALE originally NYC 10052 CASCADE STREAM

BROOKDALE originally NYC 10053 CASCADE WAVES

CLOVERDALE originally NYC 10058 CASCADE SPRINGS

RIVERDALE originally NYC 10059 CASCADE TORRENT

The four 5 Double Bedroom Buffet 25 seat Lounge Observations were all Budd built cars. Three of the cars were built with regular size windows around the lounge area and the fourth had high windows and a raised floor in that area of the lounge for better viewing.
The first three were delivered to the NYC by Budd in May - June 1949 part of a four car order, one was assigned to the NEW ENGLAND STATES the other two to the OHIO STATE LIMITED originally. The fourth car purchased by the CPR was delivered to the NYC in June - July 1949 part of a three car order for assignment to the SOUTHWESTERN LIMITED.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 25 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company May - June 1949 Plan: 9506 Lot: 9664 (Purchased used from NYC for assignment to Pool trains between Montreal and Toronto)

EASTVIEW originally NYC 10562 FALL BROOK

RIVERVIEW originally NYC 10563 PLUM BROOK

SEAVIEW originally NYC 10560 BABBLING BROOK

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 25 SEAT RAISED HIGH WINDOWED LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company June - July 1949 Plan: 9508 Lot: 9636-023 (Built for NYC sold to CPR for assignment to Pool trains between Montreal and Toronto)

MOUNTAIN VIEW originally NYC 10564 SINGING BROOK

All Budd built cars still owned by the CPR were transferred to VIA Rail Canada with the exception of YOLO PARK wrecked while in CANADIAN service in Northwestern Ontario. The four VIEW series cars purchased from the NYC were sold off the property before the VIA Rail Service began.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Hi Al

That's quite a listing - I finally had to "fast forward" to the end - way too long to absorb it all. Why not put these out in Parts/Sections[?][?][?]

One of these days I'm going to amass a listing of all of the VIA Rail cars I've traveled in - should be interesting to see, given over 16 years of traveling aboard those beautfiful Budd stainless steel cars.[tup]

A current route map of the CP


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Hello Tom

Just swung by on the way back home from the bar . . . . really a winter wonderland that I'm heading back to . . . bad, bad situation, over 2 ft right now and accumulating.

Good grief, Al are you trying to set a record?? Good stuff, of course, but man oh man, you gotta break it up some - too much!

Here's something to add to the CP "theme"

Name trains of the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR)

Alouette
Chicago Express
Chinook
Dominion
Frontenac
Great West
Gull
Kettle Valley Express
Kootenay Express
Laurentian
Michigan
Montreal Limited
Overseas
Red Wing
Royal York
Viger
Winnipeger

As always, these are just a few of the name trains - hardly inclusive, but the ones perhaps people know the best.

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

Hello Lars & Al

Good contributions on the CP . . . Sounds like you experienced quite a blizzard in NYC, Lars hope all's okay with you and yours.[tup]

Really had quite a Sunday Photo Posting Day! over at the bar and for anyone browsing through this thread, you really should take a look. Good stuff![tup]

I'm "Posted out" for the day . . .. so until the 'morrow!

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom, Just Thought I would throw the following into the fire for thought today.

WORLD WAR II
FOR THE Pasenger Trains
(June 21,1942 – January 14, 1945)
By Al

Between the above two dates no new trains were permitted to enter service streamlined or otherwise and certainly no new passenger cars were delivered after June 21, 1942 that were not Troop Sleepers Troop Kitchens or Hospital cars. These three types of cars could certainly not be mistaken for lightweight streamlined cars by any stretch of the imagination. In the case of the troop sleeper and Kitchen car they resembled lengthened Box Cars riding on high speed express car trucks. Only the Hospital cars more closely resembled streamlined cars except they were shorter than standard streamlined cars and rode on six wheel trucks.
The last Sleeping cars delivered in WW II for the railroads were a large group of 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars from Pullman Standard for the AT&SF (26), C&NW (7), CRI&P (7), ERIE (4), IC (12), MP (4), SP (17), and UP (42). This group of cars and the numbers in parenthesis represent the postwar ownership of these Sleeping Cars.
Many types of passenger cars were ordered stored for the duration of the war by Government edict such as straight Lounge Cars, many Parlor cars and other so called non-essential car types. In the place of the Lounge and Parlor cars additional coaches and Sleeping Cars were substituted to increase passenger capacity on the trains. Any shop time required by Passenger cars in WW II was kept to a minimum and unless it interfered with safety many roads deferred any major work until the national emergency was over.
As the war was drawing to a close and the outcome was all but assured the government permitted the Railroads to enter discussions with the car manufacturers for their postwar passenger car needs to be delivered when hostilities ended. Many Railroads were anxious to equip there remaining named trains with lightweight streamliners and the postwar building boom in lightweight streamlined trains would witness the final push by the railroads to streamline those trains they felt showed the potential for traffic growth and a profit. Or those trains whose terminals were duplicated by competing roads where each tried to outdo their competitors in passenger comfort and amenities.
It would be the latter half of 1946 before the first postwar streamliners equipped with new cars began making an appearance. The war may have been over but shortages of some materials still existed as well as many of the prewar subcontractors had to change from the products they had manufactured during the war back to those things they had manufactured before the war for the railroad car manufacturers. The car manufacturers soon discovered that their were new manufacturers that had been involved in wartime products that were anxious to keep there doors open, and if the car manufacturers were looking for sub contractors to produce different items for the postwar car business they were certainly easy to find. In 1946 their would be a total of eight new all coach streamliners WHIPPOORWILL, MEADOWLARK, PERE MARQUETTES, HUMMING BIRDS, and GEORGIANS. The one common factor all eight of these postwar train sets had in common was the power up front for the postwar EMD E7A unit powered all. The postwar E7A was nearly identical to the prewar EMD E6A unit with both developing 2,000 hp. But externally the long sloping nose was missing from the postwar E7A when compared to the E6A, instead the E7A and all future E units were equipped with the standard EMD Bulldog nose that would also become the standard of the EMD F units. The eight trains mentioned above did not represent the entire streamlined passenger car production during this period but they were the only complete streamliners to enter service in 1946. It would be 1947 before the trains began rolling from the manufacturers in greater numbers as the shortages of certain materials at last began to ease.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

An interesting and educational piece from passengerfan Al. [tup][tup]

This piece would have been a "natural" back on November 11th when we celebrated Vets/Remembrance Day at the bar[?] Surely would have been more than appropriate.

I suggest you file this one away for the NEXT 'special event' commemorating our Vets over at the bar. Agreed[?][tup]

Hope Lars is safe 'n sound in snowbound Staten Island, NYC![swg][tup]

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Been checking out the British Rail Pix and they surely have some interesting 'stuff' - check these out:

BR Class 170 First ScotRail (from: public domain)


BR Class 170 (from: public domain)


BR Class 170 Turbostar (from: public domain)


More later on . . .[tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]