"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[trolleyboy]

Good morning gents. Cindy a number three and a coffee. I see that Boris had donned his gladiator get up to defend you from any unwelcome advances. The helmut's a nice touch Boris oh... it's Tex coiled around your head. Well whatever floats your boat I guess.

I will be leaving in about an hour to had up the 403 / 401 and collect sir Tom and Sir Ted. I will try to pop in once a day or so over the weekend as well. Just so everyone is cool, I put a very large order in for food and fuel ( beer ) so the bar will be well stocked in our absence. Leon and Boris have just finished unloading and H&H are doing the inventory.

Eric Thanks for popping back in last night. Good to hear about your railrealted commings and goings.[tup] I'm certain that you will fit in well hear [yeah][:D]And you have the added bonus of a fellow Scandanavian Lars to semi talk shop with as well.

Doug great second piece to that article.It's great to knwo that you still have that important bit of your child hood. The picture was abit of a challenge for me old system again though, oh well worth the wait.

CM3 Good to see you in again this morning. I know that you will help pick up the slack whislt Tom and ted and I are indesposed.

Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

Alright CINDY I will give you a short break on this busy morning at the bar.The CAN-AM crews off the switching locos, doing the sidings behind the bar, will be in soon for their breakfasts, just a coffee for me please.

Its great behind the bar I see the note says TEX and AWK already fed and love the
DO NOT CHILL sign on the barrel of Bathams [^].

Great Chicago links from MIKE and model talk from NICK and ROBtup]last evening.

Thanks Doug for the second part on the Lionel TrainMasters[wow] $ 4,500 for a Jersey Central model in good condition and some good tips when buying used models.
It appears that British Railways had a simular looking but smaller version of the TrainMasters I have found a link to it
http://www.d8233.org.uk.
Good jokes but a Scotsman drinking Irish Whiskey[%-)][?].

Good to see you back AL two great posts on the CB&Q head end and Vista Dome cars[tup][tup][tup] The early 50s must have been a wonderful time to travel on the American Railroads What a great name for a car Silver Lining is.

CM3 Interesting piece on the passenger car switching. I guess that there is not much passenger switching done today on the N.American RRs[?]
It is a thing in the past in the UK. Not too long ago each major station had at least one, what was known as Station Pilots, to release baggage cars etc. In steam days on ex LMS lines this was usually done by a "Jinty" 0-6-0 tank locos(simular in appearance to Thomas the Tank) these were followed by the class08 diesel shunters of 350HP.

ERIK X2000.Great post and photo and as the others say I hope to see more.
I suppose you know that this year is the 150th anniversary of the railways of Sweden with a big festival at Gaevle in September as well as other celebrations including preserved steam and electric locos working trains. There is a web site
http//www.jarnvagsmuseum.se

Well TOM and TED should be well on the way to see ROB and I hope the rain holds off.

CINDY you had better come back, the train crew say they cant understand what I am saying [:-^]. PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good Morning once again can't resist the CB&Q here is part two.

Chicago
Burlington
&
Quincy
(CB&Q)

Streamlined Dome Cars
by Al


The Chicago Burlington & Quincy would be the largest owner of Budd built dome cars prior to Burlington Northern and a year later Amtrak.
The Burlington as previously mentioned built the first modern dome car in their own Aurora Shops in Illinois. Actually this was a rebuild from a prewar Budd built stainless steel streamlined coach. The completed car was the 4714 SILVER DOME so named upon completion of the conversion to dome. The CB&Q named the car a Vista-Dome a name they would use for all of the domes they owned except for the one VIEW series full-dome they operated in the GN EMPIRE BUILDERS.

24-SEAT VISTA DOME 34 REVENUE SEAT COACH Budd Company June 1940 Rebuilt to Dome in CB&Q Aurora Shops June 1945 (World’s first modern dome car referred to as the pattern dome assigned to TWIN ZEPHYR)

4714 SILVER DOME original name SILVER ALCHEMY)

From this single car the CB&Q would order ten Vista-Domes for the two consists of the postwar VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR. Each consist would have no less than five of the new VISTA-DOMES in each consist. There was three 54 revenue seat Vista-Dome coaches, one 50 revenue seat Vista-Dome coach and a single 29-revenue seat Parlor with 5-revenue seat Parlor Drawing Room Vista-Dome Observation. In addition their were two additional seats located at the rear of the Observation that were only a little less plu***han the other parlor seats that were sold as parlor seating when all other parlor seats were sold out. In actual fact the two observations actually sold 31-parlor seats not counting the five in the parlor drawing room located beneath the dome with its own private bathroom. In actual fact rare was the occasion when all 31 of these seats were not sold out as parlor car seating. All three types of dome cars had 24-non revenue seats in the domes.
The 54-revenue seat Vista-Dome coach’s featured 20-reclining seats forward of the dome, a large Women’s and Men’s restrooms were located beneath the dome. To the rear of the dome was located another 34-reclining seats.
The other Vista-Dome coach carried in each VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR featured a Hostess room on the right side of the car forward on the main level. To the rear of the small Hostess room was 18-seats on the main level forward of the dome. Beneath the dome of these cars was a crew dayroom with 4-chairs and locker with a crew restroom annex. A small pair of passenger restrooms occupied the remaining space beneath the dome. To the rear of the dome on the cars main level were 32 –reclining seats, and a small conductors office.
The trains originally operated with two flat top cars as well one a 48-seat dining car the other a baggage-buffet 39-seat lounge car, bringing the original consists to seven cars each.
The VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS entered service December 19, 1947 becoming the first Vista-Dome trains in the world to enter scheduled service. Each train set would complete a round trip daily between Chicago and Minneapolis. In the mornings they operated as the MORNING VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS and in the afternoons as the AFTERNOON VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 54-REVENUE SEAT COACHES Budd Company July – October 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

4725 SILVER ISLAND

4726 SILVER RIVER

4727 SILVER STREAM

4728 SILVER WAVE

4729 SILVER SCENE

4730 SILVER VISION

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME CREW ROOMS 50-REVENUE SEAT COACHES Budd Company October 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

4723 SILVER BLUFF

4725 SILVER GLADE

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 31-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November – December 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

360 SILVER VIEW

361 SILVER VISTA

The following is a list of the two consists of the initial VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS.

800 SILVER BUFFET
Baggage-Buffet 39-seat Lounge Car
4726 SILVER RIVER
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4727 SILVER STREAM
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4728 SILVER WAVE
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-Revenue seat Coach
4723 SILVER BLUFF
24-seat Vista-Dome 50-Revenue seat Coach
197 SILVER FEAST
48-seat Dining Car
360 SILVER VIEW
24-seat Vista-Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 31-seat Parlor Observation

801 SILVER SALON
Baggage Buffet 39-seat Lounge Car
4729 SILVER SCENE
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4725 SILVER ISLAND
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4730 SILVER VISION
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4724 SILVER GLADE
24-seat Vista-Dome 50-revenue seat Coach
196 SILVER SALVER
48-seat Dining Car
361 SILVER VISTA
24-seat Vista-Dome 5-seat parlor Drawing Room 31-seat Parlor Observation

The CB&Q along with the D&RGW and WP ordered the most famous dome equipped streamliners of all in October 1945 two months after the CB&Q ordered the first two VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR streamliners. This second order for Vista-Dome cars was for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, the train that would become a legend in its own right, America”s first cruise train
Each of the six VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR train sets were initially eleven cars in length; five of those cars were domes. Each VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR initially carried four types of different domes per consist, a women & children’s Vista Dome Coach, standard Vista Dome coaches, Vista Dome Buffet Lounge crew Dormitory and Vista-Dome 3-DBR 1 DR Bar Lounge and Lounge observation.
The first Vista-Dome 46-leg-rest seat coach in each of the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR consists was a designated women and Children’s car. The forward 18-seat coach area had a passageway door beneath the dome just forward of the men’s restroom to segregate this part of the car from the rest of the car. The remainder of these cars seated the standard 24 in the dome and 24 leg-rest seats on the main level aft of the dome. There were six of these cars built by Budd for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Two were CB&Q cars, one a D&RGW car and the remaining three WP owned. It is believed the cars lasted about two years as designated Women and Children’s car before the passageway door was removed and they were operated just as if they were any other dome coach in the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG-REST COACHES (designated Women & Children’s) Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered January – February 1948

4721 SILVER SADDLE

4722 SILVER STIRRUP

D&RGW
Delivered February 1948

1108 SILVER PONY

WP
Delivered February – March 1948

815 SILVER SCHOONER

816 SILVER SCOUT

817 SILVER THISTLE

The remaining eighteen Vista-Dome Coaches were 46-Leg-Rest Seat Cars without the passageway door beneath the dome. Eighteen Leg-rest seats forward of the dome on the main level and 28 on the main level aft of the depressed center beneath the dome. One each men’s and ladies restroom was located beneath the 24-seat Vista Dome. These restrooms were quite large with make-up area and bench in the ladies room, two sinks, and one separate toilet room, the men’s restroom provided two toilets with a bench and 4 sinks. This became the standard Budd arrangement for long distance dome coaches that would follow over the ensuing years. Since the Vista Dome Coaches were delivered to the operating roads before the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR entered service they were assigned to the heavyweight EXPOSITION FLYER between Chicago and Oakland. The EXPOSITION FLYER would be discontinued with the inauguration of the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered March – April 1948

4716 SILVER BRIDLE

4717 SILVER LODGE

4718 SILVER LARIAT

4719 SILVER RANCH

4720 SILVER RIFLE

D&RGW
Delivered March – April 1948

1106 SILVER COLT

1107 SILVER MUSTANG

1108 SILVER BRONCO

WP
Delivered March – May 1948

811 SILVER DOLLAR

812 SILVER FEATHER

813 SILVER PALACE

814 SILVER SAGE

The fourth dome in the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was the Vista-Dome Buffet Lounge Crew Dormitory car. The dome seated the usual 24 beneath the glass, in the short forward section of the cars main level was the Coffee Shop with seating for 19 arranged around four tables for four and one table for three. Beneath the dome was a 7-seat lounge area and the small kitchen pantry that served the Coffee Shop and Lounge area. The dome level of these cars was restricted to use by sleeping car passengers only who reached the dome by using the passageway alongside the Crew Dormitory space. To the rear of the dome on the main level was the crew dormitory area providing space for 15 in the main bunk area for the Dining car and Buffet lounge crew. To the rear of the general dormitory were two bedrooms, one for the dining car steward, and the other for the Zephyrette. The Zephyrette was the train hostess assigned to the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS. Initially these stewardesses were either College graduates or registered nurses, later these requirements were relaxed when many would be stewardesses turned to the airlines instead of the trains for work. The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Zephyrettes were home based in Oakland.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 19-SEAT COFFEE SHOP 7-SEAT LOUNGE BUFFET-PANTRY 19-CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered October-November 1948

250 SILVER CLUB

251 SILVER LOUNGE

252 SILVER ROUNDUP

D&RGW
Delivered November 1948

1140 SILVER SHOP

WP
Delivered November 1948

831 SILVER CHALET

832 SILVER HOSTEL

The last car and last Vista-Dome in each VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was among the most beautiful cars ever built for railroad use. These cars besides having a dome that seated the standard 24, featured three Double Bedrooms one Drawing Room all forward of the dome on the main level. Beneath the dome was a twelve-passenger lounge with seating at tables for eight at tables for two and one table for four and bar. To the rear of the depressed area of the car was a lounge with seating for 18 one of these at a small writing desk providing complimentary VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR stationary. This latter lounge was in the rounded observation end. There were six of these cars built initially for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. The Drawing Room Annex in each of these cars was retrofitted with a shower in 1951 after the cars had been in service for about two years.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 3-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BAR 12-SEAT LOUNGE 18-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company Plan: 9511 Lots: 9659-019-020-021 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered December 1948

375 SILVER HORIZON

376 SILVER PENTHOUSE

377 SILVER SOLARIUM

D&RGW
Delivered December 1948

1145 SILVER SKY

WP
Delivered December 1948

881 SILVER CRESCENT

882 SILVER PLANET

The CB&Q Aurora Shops were busy once again in July 1949 rebuilding another prewar Budd built streamlined coach into another of the so-called pattern dome cars identical to the earlier 4714 SILVER DOME. This second pattern dome 4709-SILVER CASTLE another coach originally constructed by Budd in June 1940 retained its name and number. After being rebuilt to a dome the 4709 SILVER CASTLE was assigned to one of the VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. In fact the CB&Q operated both of their pattern domes in the VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. No picture has ever surfaced of the two pattern domes operating in the same consist while in CB&Q or BN service. But pictures exist of the two TWIN ZEPHYRS passing with each having one pattern dome in each consist.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 34-REVENUE SEAT COACH Budd Company June 1940 Rebuilt to Dome in CB&Q Aurora Shop July 1949 (Rebuilt for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR)

4709 SILVER CASTLE

In December 1952 the CB&Q received a single 24-seat Vista-Dome 3-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing Room Bar 12-seat lounge 18- seat lounge Observation from Budd lettered for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. This car was delivered with a shower in the annex of the drawing room. The shower feature had been added to the drawing room annexes of the earlier Vista-Dome Sleeper lounge Observations built for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR in 1951.
The CB&Q purchased this car and three sleeping cars for the VISTA–DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR pool so two 10-6 sleeping cars, one 16-section sleeping car and one of the Vista-Dome Sleeper lounge Observations could be utilized in their Chicago layover to operate to Lincoln overnight on the rear of the VISTA-DOME AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR. These cars would then return to Chicago the following night and after arrival the next morning in Chicago the four cars would be assigned to that afternoons departing westbound VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. This was the last round end observation ever built for the CB&Q all future Observations built for ZEPHYRS would be blunt ended with diaphragms fitted for use mid-train if necessary.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BAR 12-SEAT LOUNGE 18-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1952 Plan: 9433 Lot: 9659-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

378 SILVER LOOKOUT

The next CB&Q Vista-Domes delivered were four in 1952 for the startup of a new daylight ZEPHYR between Chicago and Kansas City made possible by the new Kansas City shortcut. The old route left the direct line to St. Joseph at Cameron Junction and proceeded to Kansas City. This route was 490 miles from Chicago to Kansas City and the track south of Cameron Junction was built for anything but fast running. The new Kansas City shortcut left the St. Joseph mainline at Brookfield and headed over new high-speed trackage on a far more direct route to Kansas City. The route cut 24 miles from the old route but had none of the slow running of the old route. This new shortcut permitted the CB&Q to at last compete with the Santa Fe between Kansas City and Chicago. The CB&Q was not concerned about their overnight service as it departed at a late hour and arrived at the other city in the early morning in time for a full day’s business. The overnight service did not require the speed of a daytime operation but never the less the CB&Q was going to upgrade the overnight AMERICAN ROYAL to ZEPHYR status at the same time. Some of the equipment operated in the new daytime Chicago to Kansas City service would also be utilized in the overnight VISTA-DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR as well. The new daytime train was named the VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR and each of this trains two-train sets was comprised of six cars each as follows:

1601 SILVER MAIL
Baggage 30’Railway Post Office car
4702 SILVER SPRING
52-Revenue seat Coach
4732 SILVER SHIELD
50-Revenue seat Coach
320 SILVER GARDEN
24-seat Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet Crew Dormitory 24-seat Coach
199 SILVER INN
48-seat Dining Car
366 SILVER TOWER
24-seat Vista Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 27- Seat Parlor Observation


1604 SILVER POUCH
Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office car
4715 SILVER CASCADE
52-Revenue seat Coach
4733 SILVER SPEAR
50-Revenue seat Coach
321 SILVER PATIO
24-seat Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet Crew Dormitory 24- seat Coach
200 SILVER MANOR
48-seat Dining Car
365 SILVER TERRACE
24-seat Vista Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 27-seat Parlor Observation

The Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet crew Dormitory coaches operated in both the new VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS and new VISTA-DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS.
The interiors of these two cars featured the 24-Vista Dome seats and the forward end of these cars featured a 24 revenue seat coach section and a small Crew Dormitory space (3-Crew) just ahead of the cars depressed center. Beneath the dome was a large Buffet and six seat Lounge with one table for four and one table for two to the rear of the depressed area of the car was a 17-seat Coffee Shop arranged with two tables for four, and three tables for three located on the cars main level, with the stairs leading to the dome.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 24-REVENUE SEAT COACH 3-CREW DORMITORY BUFFET LOUNGE COFFEE SHOP CARS Budd Company December 1952 (Built for and assigned to KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS and AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS)

320 SILVER GARDEN

321 SILVER PATIO

The other dome car assigned to each VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR was a Vista-Dome Parlor Observation. These were the first of four blunt ended observations Budd would build for the CB&Q. The CB&Q Vista-Dome blunt end cars featured windows on either side of the rear door fitted with a diaphragm. This afforded the passengers viewing to the rear. In many ways it was better than the view from the rounded end observations as the view through the glass was not distorted as the panes on the rounded end observations often were.
The interiors of these two cars featured the standard 24-seats in the Vista-Dome, forward of the dome on the main level was seven Parlor seats. Beneath the dome was a 5-seat Parlor drawing Room with private annex and a pair of restrooms for the other parlor car patrons. In the main level area to the rear of the dome was another parlor lounge area with 20-Parlor seats.
In the 1960’s the VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS ran combined with the NEBRASKA ZEPHYRS between Chicago and Galesburg both eastbound and westbound. This was probably the only assignment these cars operated in that they were used mid-train.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 27-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November – December 1952 (Built for and assigned to KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS)

365 SILVER TERRACE

366 SILVER TOWER

The next new Vista-Domes to arrive were ten 46-leg rest seat cars for the NP VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED fully painted in the new Raymond Loewy two-tone green with white separation stripe scheme. The Budd built domes delivered to the NP were smooth sided cars not fluted side panels as on all previous domes built by Budd. The CB&Q owned two of these cars as they operated the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED between Chicago and St. Paul daily in each direction. The NP assigned these Vista-domes to replace two of that trains 56-revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches. The NP train-lined a flat top Coach between the dome coaches in order to assure the passengers a more unobstructed view. This was certainly something that would have benefited other train operating with domes. . The NP operated the new Vista-Dome coaches two per consist with one a Chicago – Portland car the other a through Chicago – Seattle car.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-REVENUE SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company July – August 1954 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED)

NP

550-556

CB&Q

557,558

SP&S

559

Between September and November 1954 the NP received 10 Vista-Dome Sleeping cars for the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. These like the earlier Vista-Dome coaches were assigned in pairs to the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. The interiors of these cars featured 4 Roomettes 4 Double Bedrooms and 4 Duplex Single Rooms beneath the Dome. The revenue space was for a maximum 16 passengers, not much when the cars they replaced had revenue space for 22. This gave the NP premier trains two Vista-Domes between Chicago and Portland and two between Chicago and Seattle. Rare were Dome Sleeping cars that were not observations, only the B&O would own three dome sleeping cars originally built for the C&O CHESSIE. In fact their was only a total of fifteen built and the one constructed for the TRAIN OF TOMORROW spent its entire revenue career operating in Parlor car service for the UP between Portland and Seattle. For further information on these Vista-Dome Sleeping cars see the NP chapter.

24-SEAT VISTA –DOME 4-ROOMETTES 4-DUPLEX SINGLE ROOMS 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company Plan: 9535 Lot: 9669-141 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED)

CB&Q

304,305

SP&S

306

NP

307-313

The next domes to arrive that the CB&Q owned were three 46-leg-rest seat Vista-Domes built as part of an order for sixteen for the GN EMPIRE BUILDER. They were delivered by Budd and entered service in May 1955. The GN assigned three to each consist of the EMPIRE BUILDER replacing three 48-seat Coaches in each consist. Unfortunately like the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR they were all coupled together. Two of the Great Domes as the GN referred to them were assigned to Chicago – Seattle service and the third was assigned to Chicago – Portland service operating via the SP&S between Spokane and Portland in each direction.. As with the NP domes these cars were flat-sided stainless steel cars from Budd painted in the Omaha Orange, Pullman Green scheme with Dulux Gold separation stripes and lettering of the Great Northern.

24-SEAT GREAT DOME 46-REVENUE SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company May 1955 (Built for and assigned to GREAT DOME EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1320 – 1331

SP&S

1332

CB&Q

1333-1335

In October 1955 Budd delivered six full-length dome Lounge cars to the GN for the Pullman passengers of the GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER. They were coupled behind the GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER 36-seat dining car in each train set. The upper level of these huge cars seated 75, 57 in single and double seats for viewing and an 18-seat lounge. The lounge centered beneath the dome seated 32 with a large Buffet. An electric dumbwaiter operated between the lower level buffet and the upper level lounge area to serve those passengers drinks from the lower level. These cars operated on six wheel trucks to spread their weight. The cars were smooth side stainless steel cars from Budd and as with the earlier short domes were fully painted and lettered for the EMPIRE BUILDER. After the full compliment of three short domes and one full dome was added to the EMPIRE BUILDERS they were advertised as the Incomparable GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER. The GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER was the only train prior to Amtrak and Auto-Train to operate with both short domes and a full-dome in each consist. For further details of these cars see the Great Northern chapter.

75-SEAT GREAT DOME BUFFET 32 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company October 1955 (Built for and assigned to GREAT DOME EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1390 GLACIER VIEW

1391 OCEAN VIEW

1392 MOUNTAIN VIEW

1393 LAKE VIEW

1394 PRAIRIE VIEW

CB&Q

1395 RIVER VIEW

The CB&Q stunned the railroad world of the day with the announcement in February 1955 they were ordering two new twelve car trains as replacements for the 1936 streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS. These would be the last full service trains built for overnight service in the United States before the Amtrak Superliners. The new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS were actually fourteen car trains when they entered service October 28, 1956.
Unusual were the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR trains, as they not only carried first class sleeping car passengers but Parlor Car passengers as well. This was true of the 1936 versions of the DENVER ZEPHYR and the same was offered in the 1956 versions of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS. Eastbound the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS offered Parlor car seating between Denver and Lincoln, while westbound parlor car space was sold between Chicago and Omaha. These new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided reserved Coach seating for 146, the Slumbercoaches provided space for another 80 coach passengers. The first class section of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided parlor space for 16 passengers and sleeping car space for 88. The Colorado Springs section of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided one coach with 50-seats, a 24-seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Crew Dormitory, one Slumbercoach with economy sleeping space for 40, and a 10-roomette 6-double bedroom sleeping car with first class sleeping space for 22. This gave the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS space for 330 passengers between Chicago and Omaha, while its eastbound counterpart provided space for 330 between Denver and Lincoln.
The two head end car in each consist were built by Budd for other CB&Q trains. Being stainless steel they looked as good as the new Budd built cars fresh from the factory that inaugurated the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS. The new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS not only operated between Chicago and Denver in each direction nightly, operating four through cars beyond Denver to Colorado Springs added to the rear of the D&RGW ROYAL GORGE between the two Colorado cities daily in each direction. Each consist of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS were assigned three Vista-Domes, a 46 seat leg rest coach, a dormitory buffet lounge Car, and a parlor buffet Observation bringing up the markers. The two initial consists are listed below with all four Slumbercoaches listed even though two were not delivered until November 1956. The consists had not changed since their inaugural, the two new Slumbercoaches were the Denver cars. Through cars to and from Colorado Springs are shown in parenthesis.

1601 SILVER MAIL
Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car
906 ARGO
Baggage Car
4741 SILVER REIN
50-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4736 SILVER BRAND
24-seat Vista-Dome 46-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4901 SILVER SLUMBER
24-Single Room 8-Double Room Slumbercoach
4737 SILVER BIT
50-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
254 SILVER KETTLE
24-Seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Lunch Counter Crew Dormitory Car
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
4902 SILVER REST
24-Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
493 SILVER RIDGE
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
201 SILVER CHEF
48-Seat Dining Car
453 SILVER SWAN
5-Compartment 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
486 SILVER PLATEAU
10-Roomette 6-Double bedroom Sleeping Car
487 SILVER HOLLOW
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
236 SILVER VERANDA
24-Seat Vista-Dome 11-Seat Parlor 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room Bar Lounge-Lounge Observation


1604 SILVER POUCH
Baggage 30” Railway Post Office Car
907 OLYMPUS
Baggage Car
4739 SILVER HALTER
50-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4735 SILVER BUCKLE
24-Seat Vista-Dome 46-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4900 SILVER SIESTA
24-Single Room 8-Double Room Slumbercoach
4738 SILVER BLANKET
50-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
253 SILVER CUP
24-Seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Lunch Counter Crew Dormitory Car
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
4903 SILVER REPOSE
24-Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
485 SILVER TERRAIN
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
202 SILVER TUREEN
48-Seat Dining Car
454 SILVER PELICAN
5-Compartment 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
491 SILVER RAVINE
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
488 SILVER BOULDER
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
235 SILVER CHATEAU
24-Seat Vista-Dome 11-Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Bar Lounge – Lounge Observation

The first Vista Dome in each of the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS was a 46-seat Leg-Rest Coach the same as they had built for the VISTA–DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS in 1948 by Budd. These would be the last fluted side stainless steel domes of this type built by Budd. They would construct one smooth sided painted Vista-Dome 46-Leg-Rest Seat Coach for the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED in December 1957 along with another of their Vista-Dome Sleeping Cars. These would be the final two short Domes delivered by Budd.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG REST COACHES Budd Company August 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4735 SILVER BUCKLE

4736 SILVER BRAND

The second Vista-Dome in each new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR featured the standard 24 seats in the dome, forward of the dome on the main level of the cars was a 19-seat Coffee Shop made up of four tables for four and one table for three. Beneath the dome was a table for four and an 8 seat Lunch Counter. To the rear of the depressed section beneath the dome was the Kitchen, stairway to the dome level and seventeen Crew dormitory space, a steward’s bedroom completed the cars floor plan. These cars operated as through cars to Colorado Springs.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 19 SEAT COFFEE SHOP 8 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 18-CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company October 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

253 SILVER CUP

254 SILVER KETTLE

The last car in each VISTA–DOME DENVER ZEPHYR was a Vista-Dome blunt end observation for first class passengers only. These cars featured the standard 24-seats in the Vista-Dome with an 11-seat Parlor section on the main level forward of the dome along with a 5-seat Parlor drawing room. Beneath the Dome was the “Colorado Room” a 12 seat Cocktail Lounge with Bar. The rear of the cars main level was occupied by a 13-seat lounge one at a desk. This completed the Vista-Dome deliveries to the CB&Q.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 11-SEAT PARLOR 5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 12-SEAT LOUNGE 13 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company September 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

235 SILVER CHATEAU

236 SILVER VERANDA

The CB&Q owned one Full Length Budd built dome and thirty-six short domes including the two pattern domes they constructed from flattop coaches in their own Aurora shops. Only the Union Pacific and Burlington Northern would own more before Amtrak. The Union Pacific owned forty-four and Burlington Northern owned seventy-three.
All CB&Q domes passed into Burlington Northern ownership following the March 1970 merger of the CB&Q-GN-NP-SP&S-FW&D-C&S.

TTFN Al

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

I recall riding Air Canada a few times between Boston and Toronto; DC9s, IIRC and kind of ratty inside.

I second some of the previous postings – by all means make time for George’s Trains. I remember going there via TTC and picking up all sorts of exotic equipment such as N scale International of Maine boxcars which are still in the fleet.

The Ives material was indeed interesting. A lot of the old trains disappeared ins crap drives during the war.

Rob – Thanks for more scale material; a bewildering combination of numbers, letters and sizes.

Michaelson – As most know who frequent the forum, I spent a fair amount of time in the heart of L&N country. There was a jewelry store in the Nashville Union Station which also had a sign proclaiming it to be the home of the “L&N Watch Inspector.” This was about the only business left in the station other than the L&N ticket office. Also, if you are interested, there is an excellent book title The Iron Horse at War (long o/p) which has shots of watch inspector’s office(s) at Chicago Union Station.

Pete – Thanks for comments and observations

Wanshwheel with more URLs.

Nick had some interesting comments on passenger cars and switching. Some stations had assigned switchers, others such as Washington, Jacksonville, and Cincinnati had their own terminal companies which took care of switching. Washington, to me was always the most interesting as they had a fleet of RS1s. Al probably remembers them well. Anyway, back in the day you could wander around so I got lots of pictures of the blue and white Washington Terminal engines switching cars from a wide variety of railroads.
South Station in Boston was, of course, home to the New Haven and the B&A. They used their own switchers, although most of the time the NH backed arriving trains from the station back to Dover St. The B&A used Alco switchers most of the time.

Looping back to the model side for a moment – passenger equipment in N scale has its own problems which can be solved by religious attention to track work and also by weighting the cars. I use chimney flashing material because it is flexible. Every car I have has been weighted and it solved a lot of problems because they were all too !@#$ light, by any standard. Old cars produced by MRC (they made excellent models of LW C&O cars) were especially prone to this. I also found that tinkering with switches and using the largest ones I could, really helped. I had a double slip on one layout and I even got that to work after awhile – mostly involved cleaning up odd burrs and pieces of plastic.. I know, we’re not doing a modeling forum, but it’s no fun when the stuff won’t stay on the rails – not only that it spills the drinks in the parlor cars.

Eric – A belated welcome – as various folks have suggested this is a diverse group as you have probably gathers from reading the posts and looking at some of the user names we have. I’m looking forward to more posts from you.

Barndad – Thanks for the second TM post. I remember the early TMs with the deformation the article mentioned. Being of a mechanical turn of mid (c’mon Boris, give me back the gears and springs – I need them) I remember taking the TMs apart – it was, shall we say, sometimes a challenge. The CNJ TM was (and is) a tough one to find. There were two switchers produced by Lionel that I coveted, but were beyond my means – they were both generic SWs – one in CNJ and the other in SAL.

Al - Thanks so much for your post - more itrems for the ever-gorwing binder.

I imagine most are airborne to the frozen north. Keep the shiny side up and be careful.

Well, back to our regularly scheduled programming – belt take-ups.

Work safe

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a cup of coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Bakery.

Back to the world of cyberspace. Never thought I would miss it so much. If some one had told me ten years ago that I would suffer withdrawal being away from the puter for a few days would have thought they were nuts.

I missed the CB&Q Zephyrs but will add a couple of belated items throughout this day.

The CB&Q operated ever Zephyr with named consists including the head end cars. Not to many Railroads did that.

Without further ado will post some CB&Q streamlined car information for those interested. This will give me a chance to catch up on the postings I missed.

CHICAGO
BURLINGTON
&
QUINCY
Streamlined Head End Cars
by Al

The CB&Q was one of the first successful operators of streamlined trains in the United States and went on to become one of the most innovative railroads in Passenger car development. They personally built only a few streamlined Baggage Cars in their own shops but were responsible for the first modern Dome car in 1945, the first Bi-Level Commuter cars in Chicago, the first Slumbercoach and introduced the stainless steel ZEPHYR fleet to the world.
The first three car articulated ZEPHYR was delivered by Budd to the Burlington in May 1934. The Cab-Engine Room 30’ Railway Post Office 15’ Baggage unit was numbered 9900. This car was articulated in turn to 505 a Baggage – Buffet 20 seat Coach Car. The lead unit 9900 contained the shovelnose engineers control cab followed by the engine room with a 600 hp Winton 201 Diesel and Generator to supply power to the traction motors of the power truck. To the rear of the engine room of the 9900 was a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and 15’ Baggage Compartment. The Baggage Compartment in the trailing 505 car was 15’ so total Baggage area of the first two cars combined was some 30’.
In April 1935 two nearly identical three car articulated ZEPHYRS the 9901 and 9902 arrived from Budd for TWIN ZEPHYR service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. In these two lead units there was no Railway Post Office Compartments so the Baggage section of the two lead units was 45’. The second car was not equipped with baggage space as on the 9900 ZEPHYR.
One final articulated four car ZEPHYR was delivered in October 1935 the MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR for service between St. Louis and Burlington, Iowa. The lead unit of this four car train was numbered and named 9903 *** JOE and was identical to the earlier 9900 having a Cab Engine Room 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and 15’ Baggage Room. The second car of this four car articulated streamliner was sixty-four feet in length and was a full Baggage Car numbered and named 506 BECKY THATCHER.
In June 1938 a fourth car was added to the 9900 ZEPHYR train and the 505 car in this train was converted to a full Baggage Car sixty – four feet in length.
In November 1936 the Burlington introduced the first DENVER ZEPHYRS in overnight service between Chicago and the Colorado Capitol. Each DENVER ZEPHYR had two head end cars assigned to each consist and they were both non-articulated. The first was a Auxiliary Power – 30’ Railway Post Office 24’ Baggage Car 950 SILVER COURIER in one consist and 951 SILVER HERALD in the other.
The second car in each consist was a 23’ Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Bar 26 seat Lounge Car 980 SILVER LINING in one train set and 981 SILVER BAR in the other train set.
In December 1936 the CB&Q received two new TWIN ZEPHYRS from Budd that were completely articulated except for the power unit that was simply coupled and uncoupled. These trains were unique in that the first articulated car in each train set only contained a 12’ Baggage Compartment. These two cars 960 VENUS and 961 APOLLO were 76’ in length and contained a Auxiliary Power room for train heat lighting and air conditioning, the small 12’ Baggage room, a Bar and 26 seat Cocktail Lounge.
In March 1939 the Budd Company and EMD delivered the last Shovelnose Diesel to the CB&Q number 9908 SILVER CHARGER. This unit was of standard diesel dimensions as was the trailing cars with no units articulated. The 9908 SILVER CHARGER was known as a hybrid as it was built with a diesel unit and Baggage Compartment combined in the one unit. GM classified this and similar units built for other railroads as model AA. The 9908 SILVER CHARGER was equipped with a 1,000 hp 567 diesel and the Baggage Compartment to the rear of the engine room was nearly 40’ in length. The 9908 SILVER CHARGER was assigned to pull three other Budd Built cars between St. Louis and Kansas City as the GENERAL PERSHING ZEPHYR.
The first full size streamlined head end cars arrived on the CB&Q from Budd in March 1940. One of these was full Baggage Car 900 SILVER LIGHT and the other was a 30’ Railway Post Office 39’ Baggage Car 1600 SILVER SHEEN. Both of these cars were initially assigned to a new ZEPHYR the SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR between Lincoln-Omaha-St. Joseph-Kansas City. This was the first ZEPHYR to be assigned one of the new EMC E5A units that developed 2,000 hp from a pair of 567 diesels. The train was normally a five-car train but consisting of standard streamlined cars additional cars were easily added.

BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company March 1940 (Built for and assigned to SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR)

900 SILVER LIGHT

30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company March 1940 (Built for and assigned to SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR)

1600 SILVER SHEEN

In June 1940 the Budd Company delivered three additional head end cars to the CB&Q two Baggage Cars 901 SILVER CHEST and 902 SILVER EXPRESS. The third car delivered in June 1940 was a 30’ Railway Post Office 39’ Baggage Car 1601 SILVER MAIL. Initially all three cars were assigned to the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR overnight between Chicago and Lincoln – Omaha. Most of the cars including the sleeping cars were heavyweights in these trains and would remain so until 1952 when the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYRS would become fully streamlined. In January 1941 1601 SILVER MAIL and 902 SILVER EXPRESS were reassigned to the CB&Q consist of the new ZEPHYR ROCKET operated jointly by the CB&Q and CRI&P between Minneapolis and St. Louis nightly in each direction. These trains also featured heavyweight Sleeping cars and for the Rock Island train set heavyweight head end cars as well.

BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company June 1940 (Built for and assigned to AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR and ZEPHYR – ROCKET)

901 SILVER CHEST

902 SILVER EXPRESS

30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company June 1940 (Built for and assigned to AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR initially transferred to ZEPHYR – ROCKET)

1601 SILVER MAIL

The first postwar streamliners to enter service following the war on the CB&Q were the VISTA – DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS in December 1947. These all new Budd built seven-car streamliners featured no less than five dome cars in each consist. Each train sets first car was a baggage Buffet 39 seat Lounge Car 800 SILVER BUFFET in one train set and 801 SILVER SALON in the other train set.

BAGGAGE BUFFET 39 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company November 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

800 SILVER BUFFET

801 SILVER SALON

In January, 1948 the CB&Q received two 60’ Railway Post Office 22’ Baggage cars 1602 SILVER POST and 1603 SILVER PAGE from Budd. These two cars were assigned to the EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and Minneapolis until 1952. After 1952 the two cars ran between Chicago and Minneapolis in the NP NORTH COAST LIMITED

60’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE 22’ BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company January 1948 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later NORTH COAST LIMITED)

1602 SILVER POST

1603 SILVER PAGE

In February 1948 the CB&Q received six-streamlined Budd built Baggage cars for assignment to the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS, NEBRASKA ZEPHYRS and AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR.
The three CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR assigned Baggage cars owned by the CB&Q were 903 SILVER BEAR, 904 SILVER BUFFALO, and 905 SILVER COYOTE. In addition three other identical Baggage cars for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR were delivered to operating partners D&RGW and WP. The two Western Pacific Railway owned CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Baggage Cars were 801 SILVER BEAVER and 802 SILVER STAG. The Denver & Rio Grande Western owned CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Baggage Car was 1100 SILVER ANTELOPE.
The former TWIN ZEPHYR consists from 1936 were transferred to a new run the NEBRASKA ZEPHYR between Chicago and Omaha-Lincoln daily in each direction. In February 1948 two Baggage Cars were received for addition to these trains 906 ARGO for the TRAIN OF THE GODDESSSES and 907 OLYMPUS for the TRAIN OF THE GODS. These two cars differed from the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars in that they carried a train heat boiler for the trailing articulated NEBRASKA ZEPHYR consists. These would be the last cars built for the CB&Q that were not assigned SILVER prefix names. These were the only non-articulated cars operated in the NEBRASKA ZEPHYR consists and were trainlined directly behind the power ahead of the articulated train sets.
At the same time as the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR and NEBRASKA ZEPHYR Baggage Cars were delivered the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR received a second streamlined Baggage Car 908 SILVER TREASURE. This gave the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR one prewar streamlined Baggage car in one consist and one new postwar baggage car in the other consist.

72’ BAGGAGE CARS Budd Company February 1948 (Built for and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR – NEBRASKA ZEPHYR – AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR)

CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR

903 SILVER BEAR

904 SILVER BUFFALO

905 SILVER COYOTE

NEBRASKA ZEPHYR

906 ARGO

907 PEGASUS

AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR

908 SILVER TREASURE

Only one additional lightweight stainless steel head end car would be built for the CB&Q the 30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE Baggage Car 1604 SILVER POUCH delivered in January 1953 for assignment to one of the KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR consists between Chicago and Kansas City. All new CB&Q ZEPHYRS from that time forward would receive streamlined head end cars from other ZEPHYRS and the older ZEPHYRS would operate with lightweight streamlined cars built by CB&Q shops.

30’ RAILWAY POST OFFICE BAGGAGE CAR Budd Company January 1953 (Built for and assigned to KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR)

1604 SILVER POUCH

The CB&Q built a total of fifty streamlined Baggage Cars in their own shops with twenty of those constructed at the Aurora Shops and the other thirty constructed at the Lincoln shops.
Lincoln shops built the first group of fifteen between October 1950 and March 1951 numbered 1015 – 1034. Aurora Shops built their first ten 990 – 999 between March and May 1951. The Aurora shops built the other ten from their shops between February and April 1953 numbered 1000 – 1009. The final fifteen railroad built Baggage cars 1035 – 1054 were delivered by Lincoln shops between May and September 1953.

BAGGAGE CARS CB&Q Lincoln Shops October 1950 – March 1951 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

1015 – 1034

BAGGAGE CARS CB&Q Aurora Shops March – May 1951 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

990 – 999

BAGGAGE CARS CB&Q Aurora Shops February – April 1953 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

1000 – 1009

BAGGAGE CARS CB&Q Lincoln Shops May – September 1953 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

1035 - 1054
In addition to the railroads own head end cars they owned head end cars that operated in the GN EMPIRE BUILDER and NP NORTH COAST LIMITED. See those respective chapters for details of those head end cars.

CHICAGO
GREAT
WESTERN

The Chicago Great Western purchased but three lightweight streamlined cars and these three delivered in November 1946 were Baggage Cars 80 – 82. They were assigned to General Service operating in the MILL CITY LIMITED and other CGW trains until passenger service ended. In March 1965 the three Baggage Cars were sold to the Great Northern Railway and renumbered 277 – 279. They were often seen running in the westbound EMPIRE BUILDER between St. Paul and Spokane.

BAGGAGE CARS Pullman Standard November 1946 (Built for and assigned to General Service)

80 – 82

TTFN Al.

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

The rains have finally stopped here in mid-Continent USA - but are soon to return, so we've been told. The "low" that brought us "Monsoon-like" conditions yesterday, is now centered near the Great Lakes and will be the cause of precip in Toronto today! <rats!> Best head for the nearest "sanctuary" and wait it out! <grin>

Just wanted to acknowledge the visit of Eric late last night and hope this will be the first of many info-exchanges! [tup][tup][tup] You certainly have an interesting and diverse background in transportation - one that should easily lend itself to much interest here at the bar! My guess is that your X2000/Amtrak experiences during the tour were the highlight of your professional endeavors. Here's hoping for many, many more! [tup]

Doug Nice part II to the Lionel Trainmaster article! [tup] And the jokes - well, got a <smirk> outta me! [swg]

Wudda been nice to have you accompany us at the Toronto Rendezvous - but you'll be there in spirit, eh[?] Send that JO neighbor up our way - there's a special place in the Lake awaiting him! But then, we'd probably get hauled off to the "lock up" for water pollution! <grin>

Rob THANX for the two Posts over at "my other Thread!! [tup][tup][tup] Really appreciate it!

Okay boyz - Cindy has arrived! Ya know what THAT means![?] Best behavior, all 'round . . .. [}:)][:-,]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have the usual two light breakfasts, and then must run! I must make comment on the incredible Ives post from Capt. Tom yesterday! What a treat for us all. Great RMC article too Rob, and yes Mike, I have seen the Zephyr and U-boat at the Museum of Sience and Industry ..even have some pix somewhere arounf here.

Here's the 2nd part of the FM article from yesterday:

Toy Train Masters by Allan W. Miller – Vintage Rails No. 11 1988

The Thunderbird - Here’s real, top-level railroading for you model engineers! This big Fairbanks-Morse is nearly 17 inches long, It had twin motors, built-in horn and MAGNE-TRACTION. You must get this new power giant. It is reproduced from blueprints of the Diesel built for the Lackawanna Railroad. And what colorful cars – there’s the red M.&StL. Box car, the green gondola with barrels, a grey hopper, aluminum fini***anker and illuminated caboose. Train measures 5 ft. 8 in. long. Track oval is 60” X 31 7/8”.



In what is generally regarded as Lionel’s postwar period, 1945-1969, the firm produced O gauge Train Master models decorated exclusively for eastern U.S. railroads: the Lackawanna, Virginian, and the Jersey Central. Interestingly, all of these models sported the Fairbanks-Morse logo on their long hoods – something not seen on their full-size counterparts. Just why the logo was added is not known. Early conjecture that Lionel may have received “seed money” for their tooling from Fairbanks-Morse (GM had supported Lionel in this manner in development of the F3 models), and that display of the circular FM logo may have been part of the deal, has been discontinued by individuals involved in the actual negotiations. It’s also a bit odd that the official builder’s name given to this powerful and distinctive locomotive – Train Master – was never used to describe the model in any of Lionel’s postwar catalogs.

Lionel’s postwar Lackawanna Train Masters were produced from 154-1956. The Virginian models were manufactured from 1955-1958 and were reintroduced in 1965-1966. The rarest and most highly valued of all Lionel; Train Masters, regardless of production period, are the orange and blue Jersey Central models, made only in 1956. Today, in mint condition with the original box and paperwork, glossy finish Jersey Central samples may bring prices upwards of $4,500. But before writing a check to anyone selling a postwar-era Lionel Train Master, there are a few quirks the potential buyer should be aware of, especially as they apply to the earliest models.

First, the plastic bodies of Lionel’s Train Masters are secured to the much heavier metal frames by mounting screws at the front and rear of the locomotive. On most models, the screw holes through the plastic were not reinforced, and this often resulted in cracks in the body at the cab end, extending down from the screw hole, which were usually caused by the locomotive being lifted by the body itself (instead of from under the frame), or from the screw being tightened down too firmly.

Also, heat from the lamps in early models often caused the plastic to soften and deform slightly in the area of the roof vents, causing a slight depression. The effect may be barely noticeable, but it is still something to keep in mind, and it does impact value. Later models had a reflective aluminum shield installed to prevent this problem.

Last, but certainly not least, novice buyers need to be aware that excellent reproductions of the postwar Lionel Train Masters abound, and they’re sometimes passed off as originals to unwary buyers. If you’re planning to acquire a legitimate postwar example, you should seek the advice and assistance of an experienced and knowledgeable toy train collector who will know the clues for detecting a fake.

After 1966, FM Train Masters disappeared from Lionel’s catalogs until 1979, when the Virginian was resurrected, accompanied by a Southern Pacific model bearing that road’s “Black Widow” paint scheme. These two were followed in later years by versions decorated for the Chicago & North Western (1980), Santa Fe (1981), Wabash (1983), Jersey Central (1986), Southern (1988), Reading (1993), and Pennsylvania (1994). Of these, the Wabash 550- a special edition made for the J.C. Penny 1983 Christmas catalog – is perhaps the most highly sought after, commanding around $1,000 in mint condition.

If memory serves, my Lionel Train Master was presented to me not as the complete cataloged set depicted in the 1954 catalog, but as the powered unit for an interesting assortment of action-oriented rolling stock hand-picked by Dad, presumably assisted by the savvy hobby dealer, Mr. Amer. Packaged and gift-wrapped separately were a 6460 Bucyrus Erie crane car, 3469 operating coal dump car, 6511 flat car with pipe load, 3620 searchlight car, 3562 operating barrel car, and a 6419 Lackawanna work caboose. This somewhat unconventional lineup may more closely resemble a maintenance-f-way consist than a typical freight train, but I like to think that it somehow reflects my late father’s keen perception of things yet to come: many fanciful model empires to be constructed, dismantled, and then reconstructed, first by a boy, and later by the man-would-would-remain-a-boy, at least in heart. Thanks, Dad! You were right!

[:I] One day a Scotsman who had been stranded on a deserted island for over 10 years, saw a speck on the horizon. He thought to himself, "It's certainly not a ship." And, as the speck got closer and closer, he began to rule out the possibilities of a small boat and even a raft.
Suddenly there emerged from the surf a wet-suited black clad figure. Putting aside the scuba gear and the top of the wet suit , there stood a drop-dead gorgeous blonde!
The glamorous blonde strode up to the stunned Scotsman and said to him,
"Tell me, how long has it been since you've had a good cigar."
"Ten years," replied the amazed Scotsman. With that, she reached over and unzipped a waterproof pocket on the left sleeve of her wetsuit and pulled out a fresh package of cigars. He takes one, lights it, and takes a long drag. "Wee Jackie," said the man, "that is so good I'd almost forgotten how great a smoke can
be!"
"And how long has it been since you've had a drop of good Powers Irish Whiskey?" asked the blonde.
Trembling, the castaway replied, "Ten years."
Hearing that, the blonde reaches over to her right sleeve, unzips a pocket there and removes a flask and hands it to him. He opened the flask and took a long drink. "'Tis nectar of the gods!" stated the Scotsman. "'Tis truly fantastic!!!"
At this point the gorgeous blonde started to slowly unzip the long front of her wet suit, right down the middle. She looked at the trembling man and asked, "And how long has it been since you played around?"
With tears in his eyes, the Scotsman fell to his knees and sobbed, "Don't tell me that you've got golf clubs in there, too!" [:I]

[:I] A husband comes in and yells, ''Honey, pack your clothes! I just won the lottery!''
His wife yells back, ''Should I pack for the beach or for the mountains?''
The husband replies, ''I don't care! Just get the hell out!'' [:I]

[siberianmo]

Toronto: courtesy: www.viarail.ca


We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


It’s Thursday! Join us for some fine pastries from The Mentor Village Baker – a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast – and a cuppa Joe![tup]


This is “getaway day” for the "Our" Place 1st Annual Classic Trains Rendezvous in Toronto! I'll try to drop in either early in the morning or late at nite … no guarantees! Be back on line Monday! [swg]


Daily Wisdom


If you’d like to know a man, find out what makes him mad.




Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear –
Delaware and Hudson (D&H) arrives next Tuesday!


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners


April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner


SIGNS YOU HAVE GROWN UP!


1. Your houseplants are alive, and you can't smoke any of them.

2. Having sex in a twin bed is out of the question.

3. You keep more food than beer in the fridge.

4. 6:00 AM is when you get up, not when you go to bed.

5. You hear your favorite song on an elevator.


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, May 7th thru May 13th: City Slickers (1991) starring: Billy Crystal, Jack Palance & Bruno Kirby –and- Crocodile Dundee (1986) starring: Paul Hogan & Linda Kozlowski. SHORT: Horses’ Collars (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, May 14th thru May 20th: A Fish Called Wanda (1988) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin –and- The French Connection (1971) starring: Gene Hackman & Ray Scheider. SHORT: Restless Knights (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 05:20:00 (327) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 10 May 2006, 05:32:32 (327) Right Coast report!

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 10 May 2006, 05:42:08 (327) Toy Train Masters, chat & joke!

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 08:02:22 (327) Ives Manufacturing Co. & Pix!

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 10 May 2006, 08:46:31 (327) WVA Report!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 12:03:57 (327) Acknowledgments & Comments

(7) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 May 2006, 12:21:44 (327) Rob’s lament!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 12:31:02 (327) Late nite acknowledgments, etc.

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 May 2006, 12:43:01 (327) OO – O – HO comparisons

(10) Michaelson (none) Posted: 10 May 2006, 14:36:08 (327) 3rd visit & reminiscing!

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 10 May 2006, 14:47:20 (327) Howls from the Wolf den!

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 15:00:02 (327) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) wanswheel Mike Posted: 10 May 2006, 16:38:34 (328) Inclusive & URL Post!

(14) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 10 May 2006, 19:34:06 (328) Nick at Nite & then some!

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 May 2006, 21:00:18 (328) Count Robulla speaks!

(16) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 May 2006, 21:07:13 (328) etc.

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 10 May 2006, 20:58:52 (328) Acknowledgments & Comments

(18) EricX2000 Eric Posted: 11 May 2006, 00:14:16 (328) Getting acquainted!




That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[EricX2000]

Hello Tom (or are you already on the way to the airport?) and Cindy (who is bartending) and the rest of of you!

If the bar still is open I’ll just have a cup of coffee, cream but no sugar, please!
I guess this is my first “real” post after two short ones last week. So I will start to thank all of you for all nice welcomes!!!

I hate to admit that I have not had time to read enough of all posts so I will save my comments till next time. I saw that today is the toy and model train day so I will show a picture of a model of the X2000 (surprise, surprise) that I took recently before I shipped it to a guy in Holland. This particular model had an accident, derailing from four feet of track on top of a six foot high cabinet and falling all the way to the floor. It could only end in one way, disaster. I put it together, sent the picture to Holland and the guy still wanted it.



As many of you already know, I’m coming from the old country (mostly called Sweden) and moved to my new country almost fourteen years ago and live here in Phoenix with my Nebraska farm girl wife (Go Big Red). In the old country I worked for the railroad (Swedish State Railways) for almost 29 years. But it was not only railroading, the first ten years I worked as a bus driver but transfered to the track side in the mid 70’s. The railroad operated a lot of buses at that time. Anyway, I became an engineer, instructor, road foreman, locomotive dispatcher and then I came to the headquarters in Stockholm. In 1989 it was time to start testing the very first X2000 and I was one of five choosen to learn everything (almost) about the train. It was put into revenue service 09/04/90. 1992 Amtrak leased one train set and at the same time they leased me to train their road foremen and engineers how to operate X2000. I was always in the cab with the engineer when the train was moving. In 1993 Amtrak sent the train back to Sweden and I left the railroad.

But even if I left my job with the railroad I am still very much into this about trains. It is like Don Scott told me in 1992: “To work for the railroad is not just a job, it is a way of life.” He is absolutely right. Don was then Amtrak’s System General Road Foreman. A very nice guy.

That is very briefly my background. Just for your information. I know it is kind of late now and maybe the toy & train model day is over but...

See you agian soon! Goodnight!

Eric

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Great speaking with you this evening, Pete! Sorry that I failed to acknowledge your Post earlier . . . that's inexcusable and . . . Tweeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeet! Rules violation, Rules violation Rule #19 - Proprietor failing to acknowledge a customer! Boris one "gong" if you please - one tall Bathams coming right up! [swg]

Just a few words B4 shutting it down for the nite . . .

Appreciate the well wishes for our flights to Toronto from Mike 'n Nick! Yes, it would be a grand time for all if only those of us who frequent this place could meet in person - hoist a tankard or three (no matter what it's filled with) and share the good times surely to follow.

Nick it is truly frightening what kind of a "team" we would create! Jack Michaelson indeed! [swg] A sure-fire-winnAH! [tup]

Appreciate the URLs from our URLMeister Monster and can always count on the novel approach to keeping us all involved! [tup][tup]

The Can-Am's passenger operations at Union Station provide for 4 trains each of VIA Rail and Amtrak. The VIA trains are "head out," whereas the Amtrak's are the opposite. My two switchers should handle the situation easily - there are sufficient sidings for them to "sit" and wait their tours of duty.

The turnouts (switches) are all #5 except for the crossovers (double switches) which are #6. You have a keen eye, Mate - a keen eye, indeed! Could've used your talents aboard ship and ashore . . . .[swg]

Oh yes, correct about the O-27 reference! [tup]

Glad you guys all enjoyed the Ives submission. Some of you are revealing more than your ages! [swg] These trains, appropriately termed "toys" have no match in today's offerings . . . pity. Then again, imagination played a much larger part with "playing" than today, methinks.

Been to George's Trains and wouldn't mind a repeat visit . . . [yeah]

Just caught your Post, Rob - so I've "deleted" and begun anew! [tup]
The "countdown" is now taking place and by this time tomorrow, well I'd say you'll be wondering, "How in blazes did I wind up with these two guys[?]" <grin>

Beer store E-mail was "spot on," but I liked those "Canadianisms" much better! [tup] I usually don't make comment on those readdressed readdressals that circulate in cyber space - way too many, way too often and way too much effort expended. However, you do a better than average job of 'filtering' . . . .


CINDY will be bartending during my absence and may be "spelled" by any one of you kind enough to give her a bit of time off . . . . <grin>

LEON the Night Man will take the bar at 9 PM tonight and at 5 PM (Central) during the Rendezvous.

Ring the bell, Boris a nite cap on the Proprietor! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Hi Tom I see you have turned over the bar to the big guy so can I buy you a nite cap [?] i will however see you uin person tomorrow [yesh][tup][:D] We shall see if we can't squeeze Georges in [tup] It will have to be by bus or cab though,I have a TTC route map though it is on the older side. Not to worry I'll pop in here in the morning and makesure that no one is misbehaving with Cindy [;)]


Rob

[trolleyboy]

A quick good evening gents. Tom I think a Keith's and round of wahtever you would like tonight as well.

Mike Nice inclusiove post again tonight sir good stuff [tup]. I have a few pictures of the Agawa canyon train going over the high level Montreal River tressle. 2002 ride Heather and I took. Some of them are posted on my railimages account if you want to take a peek at them. neat shots of the toronto and Hamilton waterfronts as well [tup]

Nick Likely no perfect answer to the delemma of the derailing passenger cars everyone does tend to take their own pathway to a fix . Mind you I agree a little "S" series switcher would not be out of place shuttling and rebuilding the arriving and departing passenger trains at a terminal. I use all #6's and #4's myself. You are right on with the location of that Beer store it is a unique one and only . There are allot of Lakes up and around Lake Simcoe, I've never been to that one but I imagine that it is and was a beautiful area .We may not make it to Georges, no TTC line on that part of Mount pleasant anymore unfortunatly, not to worry we will raise a glass or three in your honour as well.

Rob

[nickinwestwales]

Evening chaps,thought I`d drop by for a quiet libation before the old place goes to the dogs for the weekend [swg],so as the phrase `round for the house has been bandied about,I shall take full advantage-A Starop please [4:-)][oX)]TOM,Very nice piece on the Ives models-the reference to pre-great war German competion was very telling,in the earlier models,had it not been for the captions I would have taken them for Bing products,albeit of a decade or so earlier-The U.S liveries notwithstanding (Bing produced extensively for outside markets) The later pieces seem to match contempory European practice in terms of detail & accuracy.
I noted a reference to train sets running on a 27" circle of `O` gauge track-is the O-27 standard set I`ve seen mentioned..??..idle curiosity only..
Harking back to yesterdays exchange r.e. the vexed question of derailments,I suspect that your analysis is correct that curvature is to blame,have carried out some tests with my GO-Train (subliminal Toronto advert there...) Bombardier cars and they are very tickli***o propel through anything less than a #8 crossover at standard parrallels-the Can-Am Union throat looks to be laid out with #6`s-and coming off from a curved approach-Yup,switchers are the way forward-but you will need two for each side(one to release the other-although you still end up propelling-although only from the platform end ...hmmm.
Random thought,as an inveterate lover of cross-words,anagrams and other forms of substitutions,it occurs to me that our most recent visitor might not bless us for christening him Jack Michaelson...(just think about it for a moment....)
So-where`s me list,ah yes-Leons line manager on the night shift,Count ROBULLA-First up-e-Mail "End of the rainbow"--I claim my prize-I think I know where that Beer Store is,It surely looks like the one at Cochrane -Apparently it`s the only one in Canada with it`s own rail spur (serviced by the O.N.R) and as far as I can work out it`s on the north side of the yard about level with the west throat of the former C.N yard..
The lake I visited as a youth was Oak/Oke Lake-have found it on a map before and have it in mind that it is East and possibly slightly North of Lake Simcoe-I seem to remember the drive up took about 3 hours and crossed at least one main line and ran parrallel to another line,passing what looked like a fairly quiet exchange siding,memory suggests some rows of battered looking hoppers-still,this was 30 years ago...........
Appreciated notes on car-fettling (see reply to TOM above)-I took the opposite approach with the bulk of my passenger cars ( all Model Power)-as supplied they came with a nice low-profile metal wheelset,however this left the truck mounted couplers too close to the track and unable to couple to any other stock.
Replaced wheelsets with Lima standard coach sets,several mm`s larger,raised roof height but brought couplers into line-descision also motivated by large number of #4 turnouts on layout,betraying it`s origin as a working home for 1960`s &`70`s toy trains.P.S-Remember to take the boys to George`s Trains -will be with you all in spirit [tup][^][tup]
DOUG-nice work with the Trainmaster-appreciated the personal touch-a first train is a childhood milestone and worthy of note [^]
Enjoyed the catalog pix-Deviously clever how the artist draws the train in`forced` perspective-by making the caboose look smaller we think it`s further away,ergo,the train must be longer.......
MICHAELSON-Jack & coke it is,enjoy..!!-good luck trawling the archives-you will discover that you have tapped into a suprisingly eclectic database here.
MIKE-another delightfully varied portfolio-seem to remember seeing a recent M.R. article about the museum layout being replaced,by the way-the Loco just behind the layout appears to be a replica of Stephenson`s `Rocket`-the barrel at the rear was the water tank,the chimney is visible as is a hint of the right hand cylinder assembly
SIR THEODORE & CM3-Sorry our paths didn`t cross this fine spring day.
Right,bed for me-Safe journey to all travellers--until we meet again,hail and well met-
night all,nick[C=:-)]

[wanswheel]

Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house

Ted and Tom, bon voyage, or whatever's the phrase these days. Have a wonderful time and wish I was there.

CM3, thanks for the tip on CV in the new issue. I almost bought a copy of Classic Trains once, but froze of sticker shock (7 bucks!) And it was wrapped in plastic so no window shopping it either.

Rob, glad you caught that Algoma pic. Trains on high bridges always get me excited.

Pete, the look of the electric locos in that link you put is kind of cool.

Michaelson, it seems UTSI is at Tullahoma, founded 1852 as a work camp on the Nashville and Chattanooga Railroad.

Doug, maybe you've seen this...

We've done the Zephyr to a fare-thee-well, but here's a look at it outside the Museum of Science & Industry, keeping company with a German submarine. They're both indoors now.
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/CBQ/CB&Q9900atChicagoIL1966JimSandsDRColl.jpg

Also at the museum for 60 years was the acme of perspective pikes
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/photofiles/images/apf2/apf2-05317r.jpg

For more about that, visit the museum website
http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/great_train_story/history/history_01.html

And here's 2 antique panoramas

TORONTO (harbor)
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a22000/6a22500/6a22572r.jpg

HAMILTON (International Harvester)
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a23000/6a23300/6a23357r.jpg

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Another visit from Michaelson I see! Jack it is - enjoy! [swg] Living THAT close to my favorite distillery makes me envious! Passed through that area many, many times in my career . . . nice country.

Rob I have four words for ya - BUY A NEW ONE! <grin> You've been wrestling with this long enough. Not being able to access this page - or any other - simply puts you at a decided disadvantage when it comes to being able to fully participate. You know that, I know that - even Boris knows that! Well, maybe not . . . [:O]
We'll have to go "shopping" while in Toronto! <yikes> Pssssst, hey buddy, wanna buy a 'puter[?)<grin> or how about, Pssssst, youse don't want me to tell ya again to buy dis 'puter!<ohhhhhhhhh>

Good stuff with the OO-O-HO comparisons . . . stuff like that is what this hobby of ours thrives on. Gotta know where one has been, B4 one can move ahead - or something like that.

Michaelson sooner or later we are going to "dub" you with a name, unless you add one to your cyber handle. I'm thinking - "Jack" would be a nice fit! [swg]

Rob 'n Ted I'm "good to go" for the 'morrow. All that needs to happen is for the time to pass . . . . Just can't wait to sit on those concrete seats in Air Canada's regional jets - 2 hours of wonderin' - why did I do this!!![?][?] Hey - it was MY idea! [swg] Well at least it's a non-stop flight. Can't have everything, eh[?]

Michaelson By the by, I checked my library of MRR back issues - but unfortunately don't have the one you referred to. My complete series begins in the early 70s through present times. Have many issues B4 then - but none are consecutive. Wudda sent it to ya . . . .

Rob some Email for ya . . . .

Later! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please.

Good fini***o yesterdays theme day. MIKE more great links[tup]. Loved the photo of Zeph the Burro although Zeph dosent look too exicted and there seems to be on old steam loco in the background in the same photo. The Virtual tour of the Zephyr really is amazing[wow].

NICK Glad you liked the Ethel post.. The Mid-Wales line from Shrewsbury to Aberyswyth/ Pwehelli was a stomping ground for the class 24s and later the 25s. It was one of the last lines that the 25s worked regular passenger turns and attracted many railfans during their last days.

Great start to the 2nd Toy and Model Train day DOUG those TrainMasters look impressive locos in full scale and model form.

ROB Thanks for the info on the HO and OO guages. It is only recently that we have come off dial-up. I know the problems specially on Sunday photo day. I generally get the photos now but now and then the puter still does odd things.

CM3 I bet the UP 6900 made a great sound climbing the grades, they have one in the St Louis Transportation museum they certainly are a large locos.

TOM Very interesting piece and great pics on the Ives Co. I wonder what the lawyers of today would make of a toy cannon that used real gunpowder and despite making model boats that sank they made some good models. I think my farvorite is the Trolley that picked up the juice from the cantenery.

May I say Hi and welcome to MICHAELSON I hope you enjoy Our Place

Well TOM, TED and ROB no doubt you will have a great time in Toronto.I would have dearly loved to be with you and probably would have been apart from going to England pretty soon. Anyway try not to follow the old advert and Drink Canada DRY. Hope to pop in later PETE.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your kind welcomes!

My drink of choice? Come now. I'm literally sitting 14 miles from the Jack Daniels distillery.....so make mine a Gentleman Jack and Coke, if you would be so kind. (grins)

Needless to say, reading all these posts, as well as wandering around the 'hall' has dregged up so many old memories, it's pathetic. I even went on a search for an old Trains magazine that I had lost many years ago, but remembered the cover vividly last night (a closeup of a railroader holding his Hamilton pocketwatch checking the time), and discovered it was the May 1968 issue....and I received it for my birthday that year. Why was I so interested in finding a back issue of this particular magazine? I finally got hold of an example of that very watch....a Hamilton 992B Model 15 in a stainless steel case. So, a circle has been completed for me. Now to obtain a replacement issue of that magazine, and those wheels have already been put in motion.

Sorry to ramble. Just pleased to have found the door.

High regards! Michaelson

[trolleyboy]

Hi Tom I see that you are logged in at the moment as well so I'll pull up both our stools and get you a round of blue's while I put this little bit of toy train info out there. This is an excerpt from the RMC collectors corner columne drawing out some early comparasins between early OO , O , and HO scales in the late 1930's

Double O has been around since 1927 when Ed Alexander imported models and parts from England. OO is a British scale a 4mm scale, which ran on 16.5mm HO scale track,roughly sized out at 1/76 as opposed to HO's 1/87. It was smaller and cheaper than American O guage. Most of the early OO manufacturers that sold product in NA quickly made sure that the trackage was set to exact linear HO scale for ease of compatibility , but left the 1/76 proportions on the models themselves ( still happens today ) Some of these early companies were Star , Nason ,and Nimco. OO was already established as a small segment of the train market, when in 1937 a bigger comapny jumped into the fray.

Argumnets had raged between supporters of HO and OO as to which was better ( eerily similar to the DCC debates of today ) these argumnets were actually listed in Scale Crafts 1937 catalouge !. Scale Craft was known for their fine O scale models, which were at the time some of the best detailed ones on the market. All done in cast aluminum, opassenger cars , freight cars and several locomotive kits a PRR K4,and NYC J1E were the headliners. As stated the first 17 pages of their 37 catalouge listed the argumnets pro and con and disscussing the sapcial advantages of OO and HO over conventional O scale.Scale craft supported OO at the time as they found that the slighttly larger size allowed them more room for scale detail and larger motors. they felt that they could not produce a small enough HO scale motor to pull a 20 car train without over heating ( remebering everything was cast aluminum at the time ) they webnt on to say that the increase in size and therfore weight of the OO gave them 10 times the pulling power of the HO of the day.

OO was still their second best line . But Scalecraft satrted a highly detailed OO line of freight cars passenger cars and locomotives, an entire kit locomotive track cars etc, which the hobbist "finished costed less than one of their O scale locomotive kits ! They further used a 7 pole permag motor to run on two rail as well.The cost of this kit was $32.75 as a kit or $45.00 finished. Imagine that in 1937 ! easliy a months wages.

Just a small look at the primordial versions of the smaller scale production back when O was still truly King.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Back again with some acknowledgments for the late nite crowd! [swg]

Nick Always appreciate your visits and discourse. Same for Rob! Your Posts put us over the twenty "benchmark" - 22 as a matter of fact! [tup][tup]

I sincerely appreciate the offerings regarding the derailment issue I brought up. I have tried those suggestions, guys. My Budd corrugated streamliners are made by Con-Cor and had truck mounted couplers and were very, very light. With added weights and a change to body mounted couplers, the derailments and uncoupling problems were drastically REDUCED. Seriously. Now, other manufacturers factor in with the Can-Am - Rivarossi/IHC 'n Walthers Trainline series for the passenger fleet. The RDCs are all made by LifeLike (Proto 1000 series) - and they do NOT experience problems.

I really think the problem is one that I could have avoided - but didn't. The radius is 22" and I had wanted a greater one - but the manufacturer of the track I purchased only provided 22". So that may very well be the issue. Much too late to rip up all that track work (which I wouldn't do).

The idea of using metal wheels has cropped up many times, unfortuantely, I couldn't locate the proper ones for my cars (I know they are out there!) that fit within my budget. Then the idea sort of just dissipated. I will check again. Thanx, Rob!

I like the idea of using my switchers to tow those passenger cars back into the station. I have two SW7s - one in VIA Rail livery and one Amtrak. That appears to be the most practical and sensible solution! Thanx, Sir Nick!!

Didn't want to forget you two . . . and wi***he three of us would make a foursome tomorrow! That would've been a terrific get-together. Add Pete to the mix, and we'd probably all wind up in the "jug!" <grin>

RIng the bell, Boris drinks on me! [swg]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good aftrenoon Tom, I know you aren;'t used to seeing my face so often in daylight. I've bought stocks in Banana Boat Sunscreen [:D][yeah]. Figured that i would pop by for a chat and a wiggly pop or two [swg]

I trust that all is progressing well today on what was formerly pikes perspectives day. I can't read the most recent stuff on the current page unfortunatly. Some of the picture files are too big so I can't scroll past Doug's fine trainmaster post. Anyway we can make the size of the picture files smaller gents, you know for us with the elderly dial up systems [sigh] Oh well I'm actually using page 4 as a reply window. Neat stuff that I'm reminissing here [tup] I'll have a small " topic " post in a minute. Hopefully we'll hit page 328 shortly and I won't miss too much stuff .

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Outstanding kick-off to our Toys & Model Trains Day! by barndad Doug! [tup][tup][tup] Nicely put together article on those Lionel Trainmasters! And there's more coming! [wow]

Ted was "in" and "out" this AM . . . seems rather hurried and harried. I once knew a guy who was referred to as being "Busy at being busy!" Guess who that was[?] Moi! [swg]

Appreciate the return of coalminer3 - CM3 (I'm not Shane!) to the bar. Given that we don't see ya on weekends - missing a day during the week compounds the situation. Nevertheless, it doesn't take us long to sit back 'n enjoy your offerings! [tup][tup]

Glad you liked the Ives submission, figured you would! [swg] When I was a kid - as in very young, I have recollections of IVes trains at Christmas. Don't know whose they were - but at some point in my childhood, they just disappeared. I recall a green locomotive and three passenger cars. I loved those trains and was permitted to run 'em 'til I was dragged off to bed. [swg] [tup] But that "mystery" is still unresolved and I'll never really know "who" provided those trains for me for three or four successive Christmases. They were indeed indestructable and fun to run. Some mighty fine recollections from those times.

Thanx for the quarters and round! [tup]

Let's see, Lars is en route his property in upstate NY.
BK is en route a new life with Lydia.
Ted 'n I will be departing for Toronto in the AM.
Rob will be involved with our Rendezvous in the PM 'til sometime Sunday.
Al is out of touch until sometime tomorrow (we hope!)

So guys, it's clearly going to be "different" 'round the premises for the next several days. Up to y'all to keep 'er going.

Also: sure would appreciate it if someone - anyone - would drop a daily Post on "my other Thread" while I'm gone. Pix - Encores would be fine! Would be a shame to lose it . . . .Thanx!

Catch ya later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.

I apologize for not participating yesterday, but I can blame it on work schedule, etc.

Man what a lot of Zephyr-related material!

Wanswheel provided a summary, plus Chaucer – where else but here would you see that sort of thing?

Barndad – Material on the Exposition Flyer (surely one of the greatest train names ever), and a most interesting Western Pacific picture as well.

Our ‘steamed proprietor - Historical summaries, cab shots (sure looks Spartan compared to what you see today), then an interior RPO picture plus postal covers. No wonder you hurt your hand posting all of that material. The we had those lovely D&RG PAs; that black and yellow color scheme made them look even longer than they were. Then more D&RG pictures and up to Amtrak. Way to go!

Rob gave us a look inside the engine compartment

Lars provided (of course) dome pictures.

I did ride the Zephyr, but it was in its Amtrak incarnation – so I know it doesn’t count here. Routing then was Burlington from Chicago to Denver, UP from Denver to Ogden via Cheyenne, and SP from Ogden. Train crew was more than tolerant so I rode across a lot of Wyoming shooting pictures from a Dutch door that just “happened” to be left open. All I can say is the scenery was something, and the UP 6900s were every bit as big as they looked in the magazines.

Anyway, I’m ready to go again, and most grateful to all who posted.

Today is Toys and Pikes and we’re off to a good start.

Barndad with TMs and that color spread of the DL&W TM from the catalog.

Then our ‘steamed proprietor with Ives (drool!) pictures and information in color.

IIRC, I mentioned NYC S motors in a post awhile back – you can see where Ives got their inspiration for this.

Back in the day, I recall visiting a friend who had several boxes of Ives and standard gauge trains and tracks. We’d take over the upper floor of his house, unbox the trains, and set that stuff up running from room to room. It was magnificent! Ives equipment sounded like an electric locomotive. They were truly indestructible. He also had a fair amount of Lionel equipment including a Virginian TM.

Work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day!


Try this one for our 2nd Toy & Model Trains Day!


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.



Ives Manufacturing Company

Ives Toy trains (from: Ives Train Society)


The Ives Manufacturing Company, an American toy manufacturer from 1868 to 1932, was the largest manufacturer of toy trains in the United States from 1910 until 1924, when Lionel Corporation overtook it in sales.

Ives was founded in Plymouth, Connecticut by Edward Ives, a descendant of Plymouth colony governor William Bradford. The company initially produced paper dolls whose limbs moved in response to hot air, but soon began producing a wide range of toys, including a toy cannon that shot using real gunpowder and clockwork powered dolls and animals that could move. The clockwork toys were designed by Jerome Secor, Nathan Warner, and Arthur Hotchkiss and by the 1880s, Ives was a leading producer of these toys.

Its emphasis shifted to trains as its designs were copied by other toymakers who were willing to sell them more cheaply. Ives' trains were made of tin or cast iron and initially powered by clockwork, but like later electric trains, some models could whistle and smoke. On December 22, 1900, a fire destroyed Ives' main factory and its tooling, prompting a re-design for 1901 that resulted in Ives' first toy train that ran on track. In the end the fire benefited the company, as the insurance money permitted it to build a modern factory with state-of-the-art tooling.

Although several companies were selling electric trains at the time, Ives opted to remain with clockwork, partly because many U.S. homes still lacked electricity.

Initially, Ives' greatest competition came from German imports, and not from domestic manufacturers. Ives' response was with marketing, which it directed at its target audience, the twelve-year-old boy. Its campaigns addressed boys as business partners, telling them that the success of Ives' fictional railroad, Ives Railway Lines, depended on their shrewd management. This worked, building brand loyalty.

Ives released its first electric trains in 1910, partially in response to companies such as American Flyer undercutting its prices on clockwork trains. Ives initially produced electric trains in O gauge and 1 gauge.

Ives' train sales continued to decline in the face of increasing competition and Lionel's greater momentum, the latter having released its first electric trains nearly a decade earlier. Meanwhile, construction toys were gaining in popularity, so in an effort to re-diversify, Ives released a Meccano and Erector Set-like construction toy in 1913. Although it offered parts its competition did not, the set was not very successful and Ives withdrew it from the market in 1917.

World War I had mixed effects on the company. On one hand, it eliminated imports from Germany, increasing Ives' share of the market. However, Ives' geographic location made it difficult to bring in the materials it needed to make trains, and also made shipping finished products difficult. Lionel and American Flyer, being headquartered in New York City and Chicago, respectively, did not face that challenge. Additionally, Ives' isolation made it impossible for Ives to gain lucrative wartime government manufacturing contracts. As a result, Ives did not benefit financially from the war.

After the war, Ives, along with competitors Lionel and American Flyer, lobbied successfully for protective tariffs to promote the fledgling American toy train industry. As a result, there was very little foreign competition after World War I, especially at the high end of the market where Ives had positioned itself.

The seasonal nature of train sales continued to cause concern for Ives, and Harry Ives, Edward Ives' son and successor, sought one last time to diversify by selling toy boats, which he hoped would support the company through strong summer sales. The first boats, released in 1917, were powered by a clockwork engine from an Ives O gauge locomotive. However, the designs were unrealistic looking, lacking the costly detail that was the highlight of competing German designs, and had a tendency to sink easily. Additionally, since Ives did not use a primer when painting the boats, the paint flaked off easily. Ives had difficulty adapting its methods for designing and building trains to work for boats. Despite the problems, Ives continued producing the boats until 1928. Few Ives boats exist today, but it is unclear whether this was due to lack of popularity or their propensity to sink.

Harry Ives had a heated professional relationship with Lionel founder Joshua Lionel Cowen, in which they traded lawsuits and, starting in 1915, Lionel criticized the quality of Ives' offerings in print advertisements, calling its cars flimsy and showing a cast-iron Ives locomotive shattering into 15 pieces when dropped from a table, while a Lionel locomotive dropped from the same height would survive with only dents. Other ads criticizing Ives' quality appeared, but they always compared Ives' cheapest products with Lionel's priciest offerings.

Although Ives could rightly claim that its lithographed offerings were more realistic than Lionel's simple enameled two-color cars, Lionel, taking a cue from Ives, targeted advertising straight at children, claiming its cars were the most realistic and that its paint jobs were more durable.

Ives' subdued responses did little to counter Lionel's claims, only calling its competitors (including Lionel) imitators whose technology was "12 years behind." It was no match for Lionel's bold and brash ads. Additionally, Lionel's trains generally were priced lower, or, in instances where their price was comparable to Ives, they were larger, making them appear to be a better value for the money. As a result, Lionel continually gained ground on Ives, finally overtaking them in sales in 1924.

In 1921, Ives abruptly discontinued its slow-selling 1 gauge trains in favor of wide gauge trains, a standard Lionel had introduced several years earlier and called "Standard Gauge". Ives did not call its trains Standard Gauge, as Lionel had trademarked the name. While Ives was inconsistent in what it called its larger-gauge trains, it most frequently called it wide gauge. Numerous other companies also entered the wide gauge market in the early 1920s, increasing consumer interest in the size and forcing the manufacturers to innovate in order to survive.

In 1924, Ives introduced a locomotive engine that would change directions when its power flow was interrupted, a feature that Lionel would not offer for another two years. Even after Lionel's introduction, Ives' offering was unique in that it offered a neutral position as well as forward and reverse, and the engine's headlight continued to operate even when the train was in neutral. Ives charged a premium for this feature, which it dubbed the "e-unit" (the "e" stood for 'electronic,' although it was a mechanical device), and it increased sales.

This was not enough for Ives to re-take its former place as market leader--by 1926, Lionel's revenue was twice that of Ives'--and, worse yet for the company, Ives was losing money by the mid-1920s. This was worsened by Ives' attempts to compete at the low end of the market, where, unlike its competition, it sold its entry-level models at a loss. If Ives' low-end products were higher quality than its competitors, it benefited its customers, not the company.

In an effort to turn around the company, Harry Ives relinquished his presidency in 1927, becoming chairman of the board and bringing in an outsider, Charles R. Johnson, as president, but problems continued and Ives' largest creditor sued in 1928. Ives filed for bankruptcy, reporting liabilities of $188,303.25. As Ives already had $245,000 in Christmas sales lined up, Johnson petitioned for a private sale and a quick settlement. The motion for a private sale was denied.

On July 31, 1928, Ives was purchased by Lionel and American Flyer for $73,250. The low price in comparison to the company sales was presumably due to liens on Ives' assets. Lionel and Flyer then operated Ives as a joint venture, retaining Johnson and Harry Ives as president and chairman, respectively. Harry Ives left the company in September 1929, and within seven years he was dead.

Ives' new owners immediately discontinued the line of toy boats, and much of Ives' train product line was replaced with relabeled American Flyer or Lionel product, and most new designs were carried out using Lionel and American Flyer parts, even though Ives' own designs were usually more realistic. There are several reasons for this. When Lionel and American Flyer bought Ives, they did not buy the factory or tooling, which they then had to rent. It may have been less expensive for the parent companies to supply their own parts than to rent the old Ives tooling. Some historians have speculated that the Ives tooling was worn out and no longer suitable for use. A third factor was that Lionel's and Flyer's manufacturing process was less labor intensive, which made their designs less expensive to manufacture than the Ives designs they replaced.

A notable exception was the Ives 1122 locomotive, first produced in 1929, which was the first near-to-scale model of an existing locomotive to enter the marketplace. Although it had a 4-4-2 wheel configuration, it was otherwise a recognizable copy of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad President Washington Class 4-6-2 locomotive.

Whatever the reasons, the Ives product line after 1928 inherited many recognizable traits from three different companies' product lines.

In 1930, Lionel bought out American Flyer's share in Ives and closed the Ives factory in Connecticut, moving operations to Lionel's New Jersey factory. Lionel kept the Ives brand on the market through 1932, then repositioned Ives for 1933, branding its entry-level trains as Lionel-Ives, then dropped the Ives name altogether following that year. Although re-issues were occasionally made, the Ives name never re-appeared on the marketplace with any kind of regularity.

Although Joshua Lionel Cowen would later claim that he dumped all of the Ives molds in the Connecticut River, Ives' influence lived on. Lionel continued the Ives practice of issuing low-end train sets that ran on a circle of O-gauge track with a 27-inch radius, and Lionel incorporated some Ives-designed freight cars into its product line. The Lionel 1680 tanker car, for instance, was an Ives design that remained in Lionel's catalogs right up to the start of World War II.

Even more significantly, the Ives e-unit first introduced in 1924 lived on in Lionel locomotives, with a modified version of the Ives design first appearing in Lionel trains starting in 1933. Some historians have said Cowen coveted the Ives e-unit, and that it was the primary reason Lionel bought the company. It would remain present in Lionel trains for more than 50 years.

Ives toys are sought after by collectors today.

Photo Gallery from other sources



Ives trains - Dark Green 3243, brass plates, Circa 1926 (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Dark red 3243, rubber-stamped, circa 1922-24 (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - A Yellow baggage car (circa 1905-08). This one has a red door indicating that it came with red cars. Ives also made a white or cream variation of this car that also had red and gold litographed details. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The red variation of the early Empress car - note 3 color litho, full litho frame and black roof with silver clerestory trimed in red. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Blue Harvard car with dark green frame circa 1910-11. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Circa 1920-22. Leftover green 552 body on an 8 wheel frame, last series trucks with spring and rivet detail. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Circa 1922 Chair Car. Chocolate brown body with olive green roof. Rivet detail, "M" style trucks that are embossed. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The first 6" observation car, it was really nothing more than a No 72 body cut off at the door and an observation platfore added. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The original electric trolley in 1910 this 810 got it's power from the overhead pole. This trolley sold with a circle of track and ten poles that pulled electricity from the track. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The earlies Ives Trolley around 1910. The mechanical trolley is a princess car with a clockwork motor and an overhead pole. (from: Ives Train Society)




Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


REMINDER!
Read the Daily Summaries!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and friends, and a special welcome to Michaelson ... hope you become a part of our little gang!. I'll have the usual two light breakfasts, please.

Excellent excellent theme day yesterday as usual gentlemen. Tom's two Zephyr acticles were first-rate, and he even threw in an observation car article as well. Rob ann Mike both made fine contributions, and Lars' heavily pictured post was really fun to see! Great job guys!

Here's a little submission from me this morning. I'll have to get the rest typed-up later!

Toy Train Masters by Allan W. Miller – Vintage Rails No. 11 1998



While it’s a matter of record the Fairbanks-Morse produced a total of only 127 of their H-24-66 Train Master locomotives for a relatively few real-life railroads, America’s toy makers have, over the years, manufactured literally thousands of scale models on these boxy behemoths for innumerable miniature train empires scattered around the nation.

I have found recollections of the Train Master – both the life-size and model versions. I still recall, on one all-too-brief occasion, seeing a real H-24-66 in action in the mid-1950s. Moreover, an O gauge Train Master model from Lionel became my very first electric toy train locomotive. It was a Christmas gift from my father, presented to his 10-year-old son in 1954, back when my dreams and passions involved any and all things related to railroading. This prized possession remains with me to this day, running from time to time on my latest layout, but most often seen reposing in a Plexiglas display case, an ever-present reminder of a boyhood filled with great memories.

Just why Dad initially selected Lionel’s No. 2321 Lackawanna Train Master locomotive over the toy maker’s sleek and ever-popular models of GM’s F3 diesels, strikingly adorned in Santa Fe Warbonnet décor, is a question I never asked of him. I do still remember how I had admired the sheer size and rugged, no-nonsense look of that Lackawanna-lettered giant, as it appeared on pages 18 and 19 of Lionel’s famed “wish book” consumer catalog for 1954. (The name “Train Master” was nowhere to be seen in the descriptive text). Perhaps I had dog-eared or otherwise marked that particular two-page spread in the catalog, thereby providing Dad with a less-than-subtle hint of my desires.

Or it may simply have been a case of Dad entering Howard Amer’s jam-packed hobby shop in Youngston, Ohio, during the holiday shopping season and, in the course of browsing, over-hearing the energetic proprietor proudly proclaim to nobody in particular: “Look what just came in from Lionel!” Howard’s recommendation would have been enough to seal the transaction.

Whatever logic or motivation was applied to inspire the purchase, I was elated beyond words when I opening the nondescript, plain brown cardboard box and carefully removed my new-found treasure. Here, indeed, was a true “man’s locomotive” – one which would more than ably replace the diminutive, steam-powered Lionel set from the 1940s that I had previously “leased” from my sister, who never fully appreciated the thrill of steel wheels rolling on tinplated track.

Year later, when I returned to model railroading following the usual hiatus involving college, military service, and gaining a foothold in my career, I learned that this particular Lionel model was even more of a treasure than either my father or I would have imagined at the time. The locomotive Dad bought turned out to be the scarcer “red roof” (maroon actually) variation of Lionel’s Lackawanna Train Master: The more common and plentiful production version had a gray roof. Not that is really makes all that much difference; my Train Master will never be sold by its original owner!

The Lionel Corporation was the first major model maker to produce a scaled-down rendition of this somewhat unorthodox, opposed-piston diesel-electric locomotive. In fact, Lionel’s O gauge model was cataloged and released less than a year after the prototype FM brutes began plying the rails of such notable Class I carriers as the Virginian, Southern Pacific, and Pennsylvania railroads, among a handful of others in the United States and Canada. And what a model it was! At the time of its release, the Train Master was the longest O gauge locomotive Lionel had ever produced. Moreover, the unit was built to scale proportions, and it was equipped with two of Lionel’s hefty and reliable motors, which provided awesome train-toting ability.

This model of the Fairbanks Morse contains a wealth of detail. Notice the illumination on the head end – headlight, Mars light beneath the headlight, the markers and classification lights. On the forward part of the superstructure, are the vertical grills for the intake fans. Back, near the cab, is the grill for the exhaust fan. Hand rails extend all around the locomotive. Real railroad fans will be delighted with the construction of the under-carriage of this big loco. Look at the air hose connections on each side of the front coupler, and the big, six-wheel trucks with their delicately molded springs and hand brake connections. Under the center of the car are the oil tank and compressed air tanks for brakes. Only Lionel makes them like this.


(oops ...looks like the two pictures didn't quite match!)

[:I] A man walked into a bar on a slow night and sat down. After a few minutes, the bartender asked him if he wanted a drink.
He replied, "No thanks. I don't drink. I tried it once but I didn't like it."
So the bartender said, "Well, would you like a cigarette?" But the man said, "No thanks. I don't smoke. I tried it once but I didn't like it."
The bartender asked him if he'd like to play a game of pool, and again the man said, "No thanks. I don't like pool. I tried it once but I didn't like it. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be here at all, but I'm waiting for my son."
The bartender said, "Your only son, I guess." [:I]

[Anonymous]

A good Wednesday morning to all. Tom, I don't even have time to for the "hole," never mind the donut.[:O] To give all the fantastic entries on the C.B.Q., D. & R.G.W. Zephyrs, Zepherettes and related material the attention it deserves is well beyond my time limitations. I have only 24 hours from now to do what bachelor's must do in getting the homestead in fit order for the "house sitter." Then, last minute details for packing, security and pet arrangements. Apologies in advance for today's "bust!" I'll make every effort to get from behind the [8] when I return (in 4 days time) from the Rendesvous in Toronto. I'm sure Tom, Rob and I will be able to add some colo(u)r upon returning to "Our" Place next week. Until then, auf wiedersehen and let's "let the good times roll" on May 18th for the 68th christening of our esteamed Propietor Cap'n Tom. Cheero for now and happy rails.

[siberianmo]

Toronto: courtesy: www.viarail.ca

We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Daily Wisdom

A gentle horse is soon curried.


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear – The Delaware and Hudson (D&H)
arrives next Tuesday!


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Toy & Model Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



Comedy Corner


Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)


[:I] Bob takes a vacation every summer. He is a golf nut and spends 2 weeks up at Hecia Island. This year he met a woman out there and fell head over heels in love with her. On the last night of his vacation, the two of them went to dinner and had a serious talk about how they would continue the relationship.
"It's only fair to warn you, I'm a total golf nut," Bob said to his lady friend. "I eat, sleep and breathe golf, so if that's a problem, you'd better say so now."
"Well, if we're being honest with each other, here goes," she replied. "I'm a hooker."
"I see, Bob replied, and was quiet for a moment. Then he added, "You know, it s probably because you're not keeping your wrists straight when you tee off. [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, May 7th thru May 13th: City Slickers (1991) starring: Billy Crystal, Jack Palance & Bruno Kirby –and- Crocodile Dundee (1986) starring: Paul Hogan & Linda Kozlowski. SHORT: Horses’ Collars (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, May 14th thru May 20th: A Fish Called Wanda (1988) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin –and- The French Connection (1971) starring: Gene Hackman & Ray Scheider. SHORT: Restless Knights (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:26:59 (326) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) wanswheel Mike Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:28:31 (326) THEME: Zephyr excerpts, URLs, etc.

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:35:13 (326) THEME: Zephyr info & jokes

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 09 May 2006, 06:08:41 (326) Right Coast report!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 08:22:31 (326) Burlington Zephyrs – Ad

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 10:00:15 (326) RR from Yesteryear – Burlington Zephyrs Part I of II

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 11:34:11 (326) Acknowledgments & Comments

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 12:00:17 (326) RR from Yesteryear – Burlington Zephyrs Part II of II

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 13:35:21 (326) Mid-day visit!

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:18:08 (326) THEME: Classic Diesels #22 – Zephyrs, etc.

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:21:14 (326) Lars Report & THEME: 6 Pix!

(12) Michaelson (none) Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:42:55 (326) 1st Post at the bar

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:43:17 (326) THEME: Nostalgia – Zephyr literature

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:54:33 (326) For: Michealson

(15) Michaelson (none) Posted: 09 May 2006, 15:07:31 (327) 2nd visit!

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 16:16:35 (327) Reply to Michaelson

(17) pwolfe Pete Posted: 09 May 2006, 16:27:02 (327) Howls from the Wolf Den!

(18) wanswheel Mike Posted: 09 May 2006, 17:14:02 (327) THEME: Inclusive-Narrative-URL Post!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 20:01:29 (327) Acknowledgments, etc.

(20) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:03:22 (327) Nick at Nite!

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:09:34 (327) Count Robulla speaks!

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:21:05 (327) and more!




That’s it! [tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Mr Nick always a pleasure to see you in fine west wales form tonight or tomorrow in your case. [swg] it would have been both a hoot and an honour to have had you with us at the end of the week, we shall catch up with you eventually. whick lake did you spend so much time by ( if you remember ) the Muskoka steamship company plied Lake Muskoka, Lake Joe, the Muskoka River and Lake Rosseau and all the tiny watery points in betwixt and between. It is great country I recomend it to one and all.

Nice info you had for Tom there as well. I too have had some problems with the rivarossi passenger cars. I have to have body mount coupers though they just look better. I have found however that a good set of metal wheels ( lifelikes ) discarding the horribly overflanged rivarossi ones and a good deal of extra weight low down in both ends of the cars over the trucks makes them run almost perfectly and with out many derailments. I use the stick on flat qaurter once tire balencing weights, they fit under the interiors and work quite well for me. a good extra two onces makes all the difference. Just my [2c] for what it's worth.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon,send up a round of Keith's for all those that want one tonight.

Tom Nice final Zepher post, looks like we've had another good theme day.We are a pair I must say. I tried to remobve most opf the skin from my elboe while working in the flower beds yesterday. [xx(] I think if we are not carefull our back 40's might be the end of both of us.Got your emails and responded sooo you are not caught up yet LOL

Mike hey thanks for the second run through today good bit and a couple more wonderfull urls to peruse. I liked the Algoma Central one thanks for that. Really nice inclusive post tonight as well 5x[tup] for that one as well. I'm glad that I didn't get too techie on my peice on the Zepher I'd hate to think I was boring the class [;)][swg]

Pete hey glad you liked the Muskoka fleet link, it and the Portage Flyer might make a good rendezvous. [oops] bad Rob we have already had one in my backyard.Those pictures should be in my hot little hands tomorrow, they are one of the two IC Paducah shop built cars. it's heavy duty and sits on a pair of old Bloemburg locomotive trucks.

lars Hey nice interior shots of the Zepher domes.Always neat to see the insidess of the cars. I got your emails as well BTW more responces are headed for your inbox. My bad I did read that Al and CM3 were nor going to be in but I forgotted, it's half timers I tells ya [swg] Hope your trip north is as unstressfull as possible[sigh] Good job on helping ensnare Eric 5x[tup] for that sir. [:D]

Michealson [#welcome] aboard sir, nice to make your aquaintance, I hope you find our little corner of cyberspace a fun and rewarding one.

Rob

[nickinwestwales]

Well once again I find myself lured in by the siren call of the jukebox,good evening gentlemen,[4:-)][oX)]TOM,thank you for the drink,I`ll have a Starop from the back fridge-in fact,make it two,set up the boys and have one yourself-you need to get your hand in,ready for the weekend [swg]
Congratulations to one and all for the magnificent C.B.&Q. spread-it will take me a day or two to absorb-nice one[tup]
So
MICHAELSON-[#welcome]-pull up a seat and pitch in an opinion,whats yer drink of choice by the way..?
PETE-nice stuff on the `Ethels`-knew nothing about them,another gap filled [^]
ROB-We seem to have missed each other lately-fine pix of the boats-one of my strongest memories of Canada is of time spent next to a lake about a hundred miles north of Toronto-very evocative.......[^]
SIR THEODORE-Always a pleasure to share a little cyber-space with you and indeed a pleasure to see you back amongst us-as luck would have it,I will be spending a week in the Auld Country later this month ( a very poor substitude for the R.D.V,but you takes what you gets I guess) so if you give me what you have on those units I will see what I can dig up--will also be within striking distance of Schull & Skibbereen of sacred memory-no promises,but if I can get some pix of the `auld place`-(would you even know where it is ?) will do so.
Right,[4:-)][oX)]TOM-I`ve deliberately left you until last for two reasons,the first being that I knew I would be ready for another beer (which I am[^]) the second being that as this bit is model-related I would put it up as close to pikes perspectives day as possible-so--Derailments-I`m guessing that your passenger cars have body mounted couplers-these look good and work well when towing but when propelling become far more demanding-I suspect it has something to do with the overhang between the truck pivot point and the coupler-any hint of an S curve and the car ends twist out beyond the couplers tolerances.
With truck mounted couplers at least the coupler heads stay in near enough direct line.
The other alternative is to form the `Mentor Term. Rrd` whose principal duty turn is as station pilots at Union Stn-running out and collecting the car sets and drawing them back in to release the train engines for servicing-I can see a pair of R.S.2` doing this work-as a break from the G.M.theme seen elsewhere-might even share the S.O.B Lines primer-grey and matt orange livery.......thanks for continuing inspiration [tup][^][tup]-have just been reminded of (a) the time now & (b) the time when I have to get up & (c) the worryingly short gap between the two,especially considering the amount of beer disposed of,thus,a fond farewell to one and all,moonlight mile for me -safe journey to all of you,speak soon,nick [C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!


Coming to the end of another successful day here at the “Feast or Famine” bar ‘n grill! [swg] Some interesting “stuff” from an assortment of guys – which is the intent of our “theme” day!


Had a bit of an injury to one of my hands and I’m having problems with the keyboard tonight – so, I’ll be making this rather brief. Think I popped a tendon in my right hand – feels like a broken bone –but it’s not that – just feels that way. I should know – for that hand was busted once or twice on some hard heads in my younger, rowdy days!


Thanx to all for the Emails – I’m trying my best to keep up with “everything” – but your gaining on me! [swg]


Acknowledgments to Wolfman Pete & URLMeister Monster Mike!! Two fine Posts chock full of well thought out info for all . . . . Rounds most appreciated too!! [tup] Oh - yes, that IS an ALCO on the Pix you mentioned Pete!

Lars A 4.0 photo-spread! Really a good fit with our "Theme"!! Thanx for the round! tup][tup][tup]

Rob Thanx for the mid-day Posts - good stuff, as always! Appreciate the round! [tup]

Have a safe trip up 'n back - hope things aren't as bad as perhaps they may appear.


REMINDER!
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]