"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Ted and Nick, appreciate the company, kinda lonely around here today, no shortage of excitement mind you, but otherwise quiet .. Nick serve it up, your choice.

Boris willl recover just fine, just administered a mild dose of non habit forming Whatsamatta You Wilderbeast Wonder Tranquilizer, Leon might require treatment for PTSD however, don't know what exactly he witnessed, Boris going buff perhaps? So we'll have to step up to bell duty until he sleeps it off in a couple of hours. Right generous of you Nick to relieve Cindy, I won't draw conclusions, ideas and lurid thoughts maybe, but never conlusions.

Ted, It's a shame the current and coming generations will be deprived of knowing railroading up close and personal the way we did . Somehow, little Johnny telling dad, "lets go to the Intermodal Terminal and count containers" doesn't compare to some of our past experiences.

Railroad Model Craftsman ran an article, decades ago on that Rock Island Set, Rock Island was the only owner of the TA, from the attached article photos the quailty looked good for the period, an optional kit was available to power it, although I don't recall the specific guage, I do recall it was expensive in those days dollars.

Ok Nick, round of the best ale and cider you have behind the bar.. I'l do the honors in Boris's absence , Bong,bong,bong[tup][^]


Dave [:-^]

[Anonymous]

Dave, good points all around, speaking of which, I'll join ya in a cold one. Sure, survival in the post war years was not easy for the major Roads. Eisenhower's Interstate Highway System assured the death knell for short distance passenger trains but it was inevitable. The "System" was as much for civil defense as anything else. With that scenario, increased truck payloads also took a share of freight revenues as well. The R.R.'s were still paying enormous taxes on every inch of ROW and their buildings while air terminals were going up "on the cuff." In the same way R.R.'s equipment and rolling stock were exhausted after W.W. I, the same was true in 1945. Company's had to replace worn out steam and electrics with expensive diesels while their huge investments in coal minning holdings were all but idle. Federal subsidies on mail contracts allowed the Government to determine what, where and when trains would run and too often at a ludicrous profit loss in operations. The final "nail in the coffin" were labor strikes for unreasonable wage increases at all levels of the labor ladder. General Motors was the real winner from 1950 to the present.

I just wanted to check in to see how things were moving. Everything is lookin' good (especially Cindy) so I'll make some orders for the upcoming "October Fest" on the first. Need to see Nick on confirming the Zepplin schedule from Deutchland. Alas, "so many biers, so little time." I wonder what culinary morsels he has in mind for the Beer Fest? [C=:-)] Plenty of Wursts, Schnitzle, *** and Saurbraten, I'll wager. Its almost enough to make one wi***o polka, isn't it? BTW, "Johnny Willfahrt and his band will play" for the evening's entertainment. Also, Leon has strict orders to dispatch any guest at the first sign of "goose stepping."[:O] Guess that's it for this evening. Happy rails to all.[swg]

[West Coast S]

Ted, Octoberfest vundavah, lots of of floclicking and merryment and not much cyber sobriety, not to sure on the Polka, either case, I am looking forward to the event. Nick will arise to the occasion with his usual flair and grace. Dang, Boris has awaken, how many bells does he have? Bong...bong..bong.

Until tomorrow

Dave [8D]

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I'll take something nonalcoholic since I still have the crap in my chest. I hope our illustrious leader's latest Amtrak expedition has went allright.
Back in the 70s when I was school age, I'd finish supper and head off to the tracks. Frisco's former passenger main was still doubletracked and reverse block signaled just a short distance from the house. MK Jct was where the Ozark branch turned south and later was stubbed at the power plant. I had made friends with the switch crew that worked the evening mill job and spent many a evening with them. Learned a lot about railroading and a lot about people. I don't recall riding the engine much as most of my time was spent with the ground men. This crew would work all the industries downtown and then head back to the north yard up the hill on the east belt. Back then, Frisco was Springfield's largest employer and at least 4 or 5 switchers worked the north yard 24/7. Several industry jobs like my friends worked the town and locals went all four ways out of Spfld.
Now there is a RCL on both ends of the north yard and 1 local each way. A few industrial jobs work but most are extra jobs. Employment is way down from Frisco days but the 30/60 retirement law meant that railroads are occasionally hiring now. The number of trains thru here every day is between 55 and 65, which is considerably increased from Frisco days.
Even with the increase in traffic, it's not the same. Crews are nowhere near as friendly and generally won't even wave. Always in a hurry and since ATSF took over BN, a fan can't even park in a public area without being harassed.
I suppose part of getting older is looking back thru rose colored glasses and and wanting to recapture a simpler time. The innocence of youth when all the world was an adventure and before the jadedness of middle age sets in. I suppose that is what draws us to OUR PLACE is to try to relive part of that and recall a happier time. Until Tom installs a time machine, our memories and some pix will have to do. Thanks for sharing all your recollections--they are appreciated by someone who agrees that today's railroading is bland and devoid of life.

[nickinwestwales]

O.K.-just lost a page and a half of detailed replies to everybody,havn`t the heart to start again,sorry...long weekend of In-laws visiting,early(ish) night called for,speak soon,be lucky,nick[C=:-)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening everybody it's good to see so many pop by and raise a tankard or two[tup][:D] Boris no down boy [sigh] Tom I think the lederhosen are too tight they seem to have made a bit friskier than normal[:(!][xx(] Ted you are going to have to purchas a new dolly[xx(] I'm glad that you are enjoying the humour if at any time you need me to cease and desist just let me know. Dave Sounds like your youthfull railfanning trips yeilded some interesting tails and I hope photo's for our suinday night photofests[tup][^] I have some similar memoroes from my teen days. After school we would head down to the Merritomn station. All the local St Catharines and Thorold switching was dispatched from this old GT station. ( sadly it had a mysterious fire in 1996 before the historic stations act was passed [:(][:(!][V] ) Anyway the station operator was a good guy and a model railroader so with the usual pep talk and paper work he let us roam around inside the yard. It was a double ended 12 track yard. Originally the NS&T electrics would have stopped behind the station, CNR used the mainline side and electric freights used the yard trackage ( all before I was born ) I do remeber getting to ride along with the local switcher once or twice. Two SW1200RS units would generally pull 30 or 40 boxcars and gons for the paper plants and s crap dealers in St catharines and thorold. The heavy transformer jobs and GM parts plants cars were switched out of this yard as well but for safety rreasons we were never allowed to ride along with those trains. Generally two crews worked the industries from this yard a good twelve or fourteen hours a day. We always had (even today) a point ste charles caboose at the end of the train. ( St Catharines bylaw a caboose with a crew member preasant must be employed for all backwards moves accross city streets ) I remeber seeing a couple of close calls between train and impatient drivers on Hartzel road. One of the engineers had a stamp made up of a car with a line through it. For a time he actually stamped the side of the cab of the locomotive every time he hit or nicked some fool driver that would run a foul of his locomotive ( CN made him paint over his "kill" marks ) Any way Tom hope you and pete had a good day on the train [tup][:D] I know that you probably did. Loved the PRR bit,I had the LHS owber try to talk me into modelling pensy once. His rationell was that since PRR and NYC loved to dabble with all the manufactureers I could use just about any diesel locomotive I wanted and paint it for pensy and be right. Hmmm he was just trying to increase his sales quota I think. Well folks I'm off and running I'll catch up with you all tomorrow. Rob[:D]

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Mornin’ Gang! A special thanx to West Coast S Dave for being willing to maintain the continuity of Posts yesterday during my absence. Thanx! Just one example why you’re a member of the Order of the Permanent Stools! [tup][tup][tup] Thanx also to those of you who pitched in when you recognized “things were different.” [swg]

News of the Day:

(1) Tonight is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with our other Thursday “staple” – sirloin steak ‘n fries! Perhaps Nick will add something to his Nick’s Picks Menu Board. Come hungry – dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) repeat OKTOBERFEST at ”Our” Place begins this Saturday, October 1st at Noon!

We will feature GERMAN brew all month!

GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings!

On Saturday’s in October The Mentor Village Tutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the “Our” Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio

Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month!

Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips to Can-Am Gorge on weekends – 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the ”Our” Place platform at 10 AM sharp, undt ve mean, sharp![swg]

PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US!

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags , Heralds of the Fallen Flags and Passenger Train Nostalgia

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 - CNR
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” in the 1800’s and early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 California Zephyr’s Budd Co. Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge
118 – RI
119 – D&H
120 - PRR

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 00:58:56 (120) Wednesday’s News & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 05:49:33 (120) Fallen Flag – PRR

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 09:34:27 (120)

(4) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 12:27:51 (120)

(5) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 14:11:52 (120)

(6) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 16:11:09 (120)

(7) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 16:44:31 (120)

(8) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 17:33:16 (120)

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 18:59:59 (121)

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 20:05:13 (121)

(11) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 20:24:51 (121)

(12) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 20:28:36 (121)

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Sep 2005, 23:21:11 (121)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[nickinwestwales]

Right,a good nights sleep and the world is a better place again-lets take it from the top again-CM3-you really should consider writing-your combination of technical detail with a hugely readable style would be a sure-fire winner IMHO-keep it up !! [4:-)]TOM-glad the `S`capades have called you back-can`t force it,if you want to live with the results P.S-I have no objection to AWK stealing my peanuts but can you stop him spitting the shells into my glass............DAVE-glad you`re enjoying the cuisine [^] -didn`t realise Caprotti gear tried out `over there`-seem to have it in mind that it was a high-maintenance system so likely not suited to rigours of N.American usage P.S-thanks for tip R.E Boris & blue pills-local vet becoming uneasy about repeat ketamine prescriptions GUNNS-A great way to fly-but watch out for the Can-Am/Cymru Zeppelin service ....!!!!! WOLFMAN PETE--thanks for the heads-up R.E black 5`s-the loco nameplate should have been a clue [banghead] will E-Mail details of Bilston Shay inc pic,as soon as I`ve finished this. Martello towers were signal towers built along the low-lying Kent coast during Napoleonic wars as invasion warning RUSSELL-sunday picture show should be quite something--we still have a few semaphore signals nearby-The junction at Whitland nr Carmarthen still has them controlling the main running lines and a number of smaller stns. have them as distant,home & starters. ROB-You buy the first round in North Bay and I`ll get them in in Cochrane [swg] MANAGER TED-will try and find pic of your namesake--Glyn Valley Tramway 0-4-2t "Sir Theodore" quite an interesting little line BK--nice one-dont sweat the pix-should be able to do A.P.T & T.G.V for sunday pix and will look out pendolino if poss DAN-best wishes to your lady( and yourself) hope you both get the legs back under you soon TED-have negotiated months rent on Zeppelin sheds at Friedrichshaven (sp?) as this is where they were built I have great hopes of picking up some spares and even getting the old bird serviced,as to catering I will naturally do my best with the wurst............enough!!! off to town to get tonights fishies,have a good day folks,see ya tonight,nick[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Mornin' everyone, by Gadfrey its early. Good to hear from those who could make it by and share thoughts and memories of "...those thrilling days of yesteryear..." (Lone Ranger radio circa 1940's). Tom and Pete, we are awaiting a full "after action" report on your Amtrak sojourn to Kcity and return with bated breath. Hope you could get some more shots of the static diplays outside. The displays inside the old station should be interesting as well. Worse case scenario, I suppose, is such a late arrival that you couldn't detrain at all.[:O] Still, its R.R.ing no matter the inconvenience.[^]

I've been gradually testing the stamina factor with our still very hot and humid days here in "Paradise." So far, I'm up to 1 hour in the garage and about half that in the Sun, Hoop-Ti-Doo!.[(-D] Another case of West Nile Virus yesterday in my County bringing the total to 13 for the season, so far. Dusk and dawn are the most risky times for mosquitoes and, of course, the coolest times for working...can't win![:(!]

It looks as though the general consensus is that railroading has been emasculated down to a conveyor belt like status and just sbout as interesting.[V] For me, its been one hard lesson in "never take anything for granted." The two weeks of riding the rails in Mexico and Ireland were probably my "last stand" for recapturing some of the ambience that goes with over-night train travel. Even those services have "taken a hit" for convenience and creature comforts. When the only option left in the U.S. is an excursion train costing into the thousands of dollars, it all over for me. So if it ain't 1:87, or 1:29 or cyber, its' all pretty much history.

Great gaggles of giant galloping Giraffes! How did I get into such dismal doldrums? Hey, we have the "Our" Place Oktober Fest just around the corner. For those of you not accustomed to the anatomically bazaar, be warned. Boris, in Lederhosen is something akin to King Kong in a Bikini; not for the feint of heart.[alien] Nick has made travel arrangements via the Graf Zepplin and trans Atlantic tunnel Briney Express for Munich's finest Pilsners and Lagers. Hot Pretzels, horseradish mustard, black bread, Blut, Weiss, Brats, Bavarian Wursts; all will be on offer. So, whether you may have "roots" in *** Wagner's Land of the Valkyries or not, bring your thirst and apetite Saturday around noon.[tup] Oh yes, the gals will be sporting Lederhosen sans the frilly white blouses.[:D] Also, you can "polka 'till pooped" on our refinished hardwood oak dance floor. As you know, "Johnny Willfahrt and his band will play." See ya there Komaraden.

[siberianmo]

And the last shall be first ..........

G'day Nick I see you've given it another go and succeeded. These Post preparations can (and do) drive one nuts ..... speaking of which, are you sure it's Awk spitting out the shells [?] Parrots spit [?] Hmmmm. Seems more like a Boris thing - but I'll check into it! [swg]

Perhaps we should arrange for the Can-Am/Cymru Zeppelin to make Saturday flyovers during Oktoberfest. We could fill the gondola with all kinds of "wursts" and have them deposited all over the picnic grounds! Protected by "bubble wrap" of course ....... [swg] And, you say Johnny Willfahrt and his band will perform this Saturday night, eh [?] Well, let's arrange the platform to ensure they are downwind of the dancers! [swg]

Good Morning Guys! As you can see - I'm baaaaaaaaack!

The Amtrak trip to Kansas City was as close to a perfect round trip as I've experienced over the near 16 years that this has become part of my ritual (5 or 6 times a year). The highlight was meeting pwolfe Pete as we pulled into Missouri's capital city - Jefferson City - and he found his way to the cafe car where we instantly recognized one another. A grand time was had and the train arrived in KCity at precisely 1:30 PM - the scheduled arrival time! Now, that doesn't always occur. [swg] KC's Unio n Station had a huge N-scale display - and I mean huge. Took some pix and will post 'em on Sunday Photo Posting Day!. Out in the yard were several passengers cars and a loco - all available for public "oogling," which we did. Again - pix on Sunday.

As with my trip to Dallas last month to meet up wtih wrwatkins ***, and of course, ride the RDC's, yesterday's Amtrak journey goes down in my aging head as a day to remember! [yeah]

Sorry guys, if I don't catch all of yesterday's commentary - but here's a few replies:

Ted Good thing you and I aren't geographic neighbors, for we'd have matching pitch forks and torches as we marched on City Hall! I feel very strongly about taxation - and even moreso when it comes to property tax. We Americans have the right to own property - our Constitution grants us that. However, ONLY if we tithe to the government, otherwise they take it away!

You're hitting on another set of cylinders when you speak of furthering your education. That's a great idea and believe me, it's very rewarding, no matter what your pursuit. In my own situation, I immediately enrolled in undergraduate studies upon retirement. Did 4 years in college - just like a kid would do (although today, I think it's more like 5 or 6 for many of 'em). Anyway, I made it clear to my "advisors" that in no way did I want to have any waivers or special consideration given me for past experiences and other college work amassed over my 32 year career. So, it was a grand time indeed. Those 4 years flew by - in fact that's where I met my bride. Never intended to "do" anything with the ed-u-mah-kay-shun, other than simply to say, "I did it!" If I were "Czar," I'd insist on two things for all Americans: no kid goes to college immediately after high school - they'd go into a national service program OR the military. Second - all retired adults would be required to go to school at the community college or higher level prior to be able to receive social security. Why the latter? Simply to exercise the grey matter and keep pace with this rapidly changing world. Oh well - don't sweat it - I'm not about to become "Czar," or "Dictator for LIfe (Da-Da [?]), so rest easy, Gentlemen! [swg]

Dave A comment of yours,

QUOTE: It occures to me that I would not desire to be an up and coming railfan these days, Railroading is now so sterile,bland and inpersonal . Perhaps that's why we yearn for the old daysand a desire to share common memories and experiences .

brings to mind an observation from yesterday in KCity.

While taking in the sights at Union Station's yard, several passing trains - BNSF - were in evidence. They were long consists of containerized freight, broken up by strings of "generic" covered hoppers and "leased" box cars. Where were all of the "heralds" that made train watching so much fun years ago, I wondered [?] The livery of BNSF turns me off too - yuck. And of course, not a caboose in sight. How sterile, how impersonal, how very "plastic." I agree with your assessment!

QUOTE: Whatsamatta You Wilderbeast Wonder Tranquilizer

Last time this was used, so I heard, Boris reacted as if he'd just received a liquid dose of male enhancement Elixir. Good grief man, do you really want to know him THAT well [?] [swg]

Rob Looks like Boris will have to go back for a refit - but only once the Elixer wears off! Wouldn't want Frau Greta over at the Continental Tailor Shop and Chili Parlo(u)r getting overly stressed! She's still having a bit of difficulty navigating after the first session. Oh [yeah], her shop is right 'round the corner from The Bell & Borsht Shop, in case you'd like a set of Lederhosen for yourself! [swg] It's been mentioned - and I won't reveal by whom - that you should become a paid member of the staff. Of course, should this occur, you'll have no choice but to wear the "uniform" prescribed! [:D]

Finally, I want to say "Thanx" to all who pitched in during my absence to keep things rollin' at "Our" Place and a special note to West Coast S Dave for "above & beyond service to the bar!" [tup][tup][tup] to all concerned! Received your Email and responded to same - thanx! [tup ][;)]

Just heard the "news" about Amtrak's southbound "Texas Eagle" derailing about 30 miles south of St. Louis last night. Apparently caused by a rock slide, with no reports of fatalities or serious injuries .... However, there's a loco on it's side and Superliners off the track ... they can't win for losing and with no money in the budget to replace equipment, one has to wonder where this all leads to. I think we know.
Here's the URL:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/jeffersoncounty/story/4EF87118AF6555D68625708B002384BD?OpenDocument

Oh yes - thanx to all who made mention of the Pennsy in the Fallen Flags segment of yesterday. Got that off right before I departed for the station ... glad you enjoyed it! [tup]

Ted Just caught your Post of this morning .... Thanx for getting into the "swing of things" in your Managerial capacity for our Oktoberfest. Undoubtedly, this will be a raging [?] success!! [swg]

While I hadn't planned a detailed "trip report" as such, suffice it to say that once Pete - aka: Wolfman and I met - and it honestly seemed as if we've known one another for a long time - we wound up in discussion upon discussion, and before we realized it, Kanasa City was upon us. We did take some time out to review the scenery and compare notes regarding this ' that as the train glided through the comfortable and attractive rolling hills of Missouri. Fortunately, any rain that we encountered occurred while we were on board - while taking in the sights (mainly outside) of Union Station, the temps were comfortable and there was no rain to worry about. A grand day, indeed. Our car was just a bit different from many I've experienced over the decades for Cafe Cars. The Business Class section had single seating on the right side and double on the other. Very new and very spacious - only 15 could be accommodated compared to the 24 in other seating arrangements. Anyway, it was well done and something that Amtrak should be applauded for. Pete "coerced" me into having a brew or three in the cafe car on the return leg, so we spent the time at one of the tables, continuing to chat - get to know one another - and before we realized it - Jefferson City was announced. Again, a most pleasant trip and a great way to spend the day. I arrived back at the Kirkwood station just about 30 minutes beyond the scheduled time - which for me worked out just fine. I can handle up to an hour late, given the situation with UP's traffic on that very busy main line between St. Louis and Kansas City. Yesterday, the Rail Gods were with us and it will go down as one of my more memorable experiences on rail here in the Show Me State. [tup]

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #3

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956):

Perhaps no railroad anywhere rivaled the Canadian Pacific in terms of world wide excellence in serving the traveling public, whether by air, rail or sea. How many of you are aware of the CP’s great hotel and lodge network [?] These proprieties were built by and for CP according to their requirements and were situated at the key rail stops and vacation sites along their main lines



CANADIAN PACIFIC HOTELS AND LODGES

City…………....…Name…..………………..Open

Kentville, NS…….Cornwallis, Inn………….All year
McAdam, NS…...McAdam Hotel………….All year
Quebec, QC…....Chateau Frontenac….....All year
Toronto, ON……..Royal York Hotel…….…All year
Winnipeg, MN…..Royal Alexandra Hotel…All year
Regina, SK………Hotel Saskatchewan…..All year
Calgary, AB……..Hotel Palliser……………All year
Victoria, BC….….Empress Hotel………….All year
Kenora, ON….….Devil’s Gap Lodge………June to September
Digby, NS…….…The Digby Pines………...June to September
Yarmouth, NS…..Lakeside Inn………….…June to September
St. Andrews, NB..The Algonquin Hotel……June to September
Banff, AB……..….Banff Springs Hotel..…..June to September
Lake Louise, AB..Chateau Lake Louise…..June to September
Reached from Lake Louise:
…………………..Moraine Lake Lodge…….June to September
Hector, BC……...Lake O’Hara Lodge.…….June to September
Hector, BC……..Lake Wapta Lodge………June to September
Field, BC……….Yoho Valley Lodge……...June to September
Vancouver, BC…Hotel Vancouver….……..All year

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.
A pint of the usual please.
As TOM said it was an excellent day yesterday. What better way to spend a day than riding the rails in good company [?][tup]. On the return to Jefferson city I was talking to a gentleman at the depot who said that the Classic car which we noted on the morning East bound service was METIS which he said was going to work Chiago-St. Louis- Washington D.C. Has anyone any info on the car.

How I must agree with the posts saying that railroads have lost most of their varity. In my home town in England when I next visit the expresses will all be in the hands of Pendalinos the locals one type of E.M.U. and what freight we have will be hauled by 2 or 3 classes.

Great posts by ALL on early memories of railroads we were indeed fortuneate to live in a time when we could enjoy our hobby and our parents didn't have to worry unduly. The world( curtainly England) was a safer place then.

Did the railroads own HOTELS as in Canada.In the U.K. some of the best and grandest were owned by the railways.I believe that the magnificent Grade 1 listed St Pancras hotel in London is being restored to its original use .

Looks like being a great start to OCTOBERFEST this Saturday .I will have to have a few steins of beer before BORIS in his Lederhosen dances to the Johnny Willfahrt's band. It sounds a great menu TED and NICK have devised.
[wow][yeah].

Thanks for the E-MAIL NICK.

Well Tom I'll have one for the road and can you put me down for Fish and Chips later please [tup]. PETE.

[siberianmo]

Well, finally a customer! Was beginning to wonder if today was Sunday!

Nice to see you Pete ... so that "glimpse" we caught of the heavyweight observation car turned out to be a private car, thereby confirming our suspicions! Perhaps I should sign you up to become Special Investigative Assistant to Inspector Cluless of the Local Constabulary, normally assisted by his earstwhile friend and companion, Mr. Doyle, Private Investigator. Phew - that's a mouthful! [swg]

I forwarded an Email to you from Nick with attachments ....

Those CP hotels were indeed "grand" and still are - but of course by today's standards, things have changed. Nonetheless, when "elegance" in living, lifestyles and creature comforts was "in," those hotels fit the bill quite nicely. Just born too late ......... and not wealthy enough! [swg]

Catch ya later and c'mon back for the Fish 'n Chips and a brew or two ........

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the gang..Round for Tom, his choice and drinks for all, courtsey of my expense account until midnight tonight. Boris you know what to do...Bong..bong...bong...bong

He's baaack! Good to have you and Pwolf home, All in all a good day around "Our Place" during your absence, some Boris issues, but you knew that was a given! Male enhancement elixer[?] hmm...something to consider in the future.

Thanks to all who frequented with your insight, opinions and history and a helping hand with Boris. I see I struck a common thread with my now vrs. then observations, great minds think alike . Tom enjoyed reading of your KC experience..More..more, you too Pwolf, caugh up the details.

I do have some remorse over subjects I ignored.. I considered, at the time the geep B units employed by the UP to be a abomonation, hence I rarely devoted them to film, ditto for the DD35 A/B and DD40. The SP trainmasters were in their last days of commute service and a common everyday sight , i've got photos of the commute geeps,SDP45s, GP40Ps and Harriman coaches , as for the TM's, you guessed it.

At some point I became aware of the change occuring trackside , the UP double diesels and B units were running off their last years in Utah, I was able to see them for the wonder that they were, alas I still lament not devoting those FM's to film. I'm sure we have a tale of the one that got away.

Enjoy the drinks
I going to sit back and enjoy the ambience and do some catchup . Boris, your'e going to anyway..who am I to stop you. Clang...clang..clang.. What now? Oh no...Inspector Clueless is going to be upset with you banging on his badge with a spoon.

Dave [8D]

[nickinwestwales]

Hi kids,ya ready to rock`n`roll now..?...O.K...sorry-just back from band practice,takes a moment or two to adjust--few problems in that area tonight,as most of you know,I play in 3 bands-2 of these I play bass on an instrument-for-hire basis,the third is `my` band-I play guitar,missisnick sings,all is generally wonderful. Tonight received phone call from bass-player Ritchie (father of small goblin Robin) to say that through pressure of work,college & parenthood he is going to have to step down,thus evening spent frantically re-arranging songs to make sure we have 2 hours of water-tight material for sat. night with me playing the bass and Simon covering the guitar parts single handed ( Normally,I start all the songs & he chips in when ready.......could be an interesting evening,wish us luck-----Right,[4:-)]TOM-or should that be Kapitan TOM-despite the veiled references to steel striking steel and Teutonic heritage,thinly concealed as Octoberfest,I shall continue to order Czech beer right up to the point where Herr Leutnant Kramer agrees to help me into a taxi . Enough of this merry banter,I have a menu to present---tonight,by a happy co-incidence,the Can-Am Zeppelin arrived after an unscheduled stop off the Maritimes,bringing fresh supplies----therefore,it is the House`s pleasure to present----------for starters-----------a dozen Whitstable Oysters on the half-shell,cold green-lip Mussells with garlic & coriander,smoked Mackerel pate with gooseberry sauce,fresh Crab gratinee tartlets------as a main dish--------Hen Lobster with beurre blanc sauce,Sea Bass poached in rum,lime & ginger,Sewin in sorrell cream sauce,fillet of grey Mullet with fennel & tomato Also available-8,12,16 &20 oz Sirloins with mushrooms,tomatoes and onion rings--double fried egg on request,full range of pizza`s,strange Carpathian dishes with too many legs,Vegetarian dishes available at [C=:-)]discretion...............well,enjoy gentlemen !!!---have a gig tomorrow as well,so looking forward to sunday picture show as oasis of quiet time [^]-enjoy your weekends folks,any postings between now and then may be of questionable quality,please ignore,all the best nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Now waaaaaaaaaaaait a minute! A "fed" with an expense account [?] I recall some "feds" driving rather luxurious seized vehicles - however, expense accounts - nope. Hmmmmmmm. This IS something to ponder regarding whether we should embrace the services of our super sleuths, Inspector Clueless of the Local Constabulary and his earstwhile friend and companion, Mr. Doyle, Private Investigator!

Anyway - we'll drink 'n drink until we find you GUILTY! [swg]

Funny thing about "B Units," for I cannot accept their existence in more modern terms because I associate them with F's - E-8's and PA/B's. I'm just "stuck" in a warp of time and anything that doesn't compliment my historical frame of reference just doesn't "compute."

[yeah] I'd be a bit cautious with Boris and perhaps not fall to the trap of believing he's (1) human and (2) controllable. What "works" for most of us, doesn't for him ...... [:O]

So, you want us to reveal every aspect of the Kansas City round trip, eh [?] Ain't gonna happen .... some of the more delicate encounters with the all female Weight lifting and Knitting Circle that we me in the cafe car are best left to one's imagination! [}:)][:-,]

Thanx for the round ... catch ya later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Nick

Another menu fit for this fine bunch at "Our" Place. Okay guys, chow time - Boris round up the track gang and tell him the "feed bag" is on! Our Chief Chef [C=:-)] has prepared a [dinner] meal like no other! [wow][yeah][tup]

Two bands, husband, father, career (what is it?) and of course, Chief Chef [C=:-)] here. You are a busy boy for sure! How I wi***hat I could fill in for your bass player, but geographical separation aside, there's a talent issue as well. Ahhhhh, but to dream ...... [swg]

Kapitan Tom has a rather harsh ring to it - I'll stick with Herr Proprietor! [;)] Never really took any of this Teutonic stuff seriously - guess that's something my grandfathers instilled in me. They were immigrants to the "new land" back in 1910 and refused - absolutely refused - to speak their native tongue whenever I was present. They had a firm belief that to be in the "new land" requried use of the "new tongue." Oh how I wi***hat credo somehow would spread across the landscape as we become more and more bi-lingual thanx to an over zealous business marketing effort. Arghhhhhhh.

Hope to see you pop in for the Oktoberfest kick off on Saturday (noon). Should be a great time - just seeing this crew, including YOU, in Lederhosen and Alpine Hats will be worth the price of a Stein of German brew! [swg]

By the by, your Email was forwarded to Pete. And, Czech beer is close enough .......[swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

Tom... Strictly on the up and up, see, I have TDY orders to Nellis AFB, departing tomorrow eveing, returning Tuesday. Under TDY, they assign a temporary expense account should the need for additional cash assets arise ( I do have a VISA account that could cover the purchase of Holland), ta Duh, Vegas Strip and other moral decadence , here I come in my confiscated Escalade!

I just might find time to to get some actual, earn a paycheck type work accomplished.

For the record, actually we cover our own TDY expenses from revenue generated from the fines and levys paid under the Federal Recovery Act. One more aspect of my job, assuring the funds are used in the proper manner and always, maintain the accounting, or else!.


In hindsight, I would retract my "all the details" query in light of your insightful referance regarding female weight lifiting and knitting circles. What Amtrak won't do to increase revenue! Whats next? Bedtime stories with Boris in the Sleeping car?

Under no circumstances will I be missing the Octoberfest activities, why, Boris has saved the first Polka for me.
Ain't I lucky? Heck, reading Nick's menu over the last several days has left my mouth salavating.

On the upside

Dave [8D]

[nickinwestwales]

What ho [4:-)]TOM & Gentlemen,trust you all noticed deliberate dead-pan expression used earlier...........no intention to give offense,........if calculations correct,should be able to stop in for a little livener to start the Oktoberfest,then in and out as available--P.S-[4:-)]TOM,if you hear a loud dull thud,it will be an E-Mail with all the details for the photo file landing in your in-tray,feel free to trim as required,all the best chaps,[C=:-]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom Guess I'll have my usual CR and a round for the house.
Enjoyed your listing of the CP hotels. Just thought I would expand on it a little. The Royal York in Toronto was the largest Hotel in the Commonwealth for many years. It featured fifteen hundred rooms and they didn't take any shortcuts. Having spent 28 years in the trucking business and interesting fact about the hotel was that on the east side was an elevator that was capable of taking a loaded tractor trailer up to the exhibit floor where it could be driven off and onto a huge wooden turntable built to match the rest of the exhibit floor where they turned the tractor trailere and you backed as close as possible to the area where your exhibit was going then you drove back on the elevator for the ride to street level and exit the building. I was always impressed with the ROYAL YORK and dined and enjoyed entertainment their many times. The Chefs for the other great CP summer hotels such as the Banff were trained at the Royal York.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Amazing just how effective the mere mention of an "investigation" the super sleuths of "Our" Place will loosen even the tightest of lips! [swg] Sooooooo, vee haf our vays, Herr Dave! Okay - you're off the hook, somewhat. "Drink, drink, drink, m'boys, let every glass clink, m'boys, drink, drink, drink for Dave's buyin'! " [swg]

In "my day," actually toward the end of those days (daze), we were "issued" Diner's Cards. This was supposed to eliminate cash advances and ease the process for the administrative support staff with the processing of travel clailm. While I never had difficulties, some horror stories ensued. I know of a guy who supposedly went absolutely wild with the card - court martial took care of that, and his career ended wtih a trip to Kansas. Sad - but oh so true.

Boris would have met is match with Hilda the Masked Marvel who was the "headliner" for the all female Weight lifting and Knitting Circle. She actually had "eyes" for Pete, even though it was a bit difficult seeing them behind the mask. Well, once the arm wresting tournament began, and she promptly put down the UP relief team headed for Jefferson City, we knew the night was going to be rather "active." And ..... oh well, perhaps I should not continue with this ... after all, the more "delicate" details should remain - private. [swg]

Hope you do have an opportunity to check in with us for Oktoberfest, it should be a fine kick off for the Fall Festival indeed. You vill enjoy zee bier! [tup]

Nick, back so soon [?] Good grief, man - what time IS it where you are [?] Let's see, add six to Central and you get - oh dark thirty. WHEN do you sleep [?] [swg] I'll handle those incoming pix in the AM, Mate!

Al Thanx for the round! Boris ring the chimes!

We've been to the Royal York and I never knew the "inside story" that you presented. Really neat stuff - had no clue regarding the elevator, tractor trailer, et al. Quite innovative and expensive to engineer I'd say. Some more great insights from our premiere "factition."

Be sure to check out the photo's on our Sunday Photo Posting Day!, you may find some of the Kansas City shots of interest .......

Enjoy the evening! Oh yeah - Dave's tab is still runnin', so Boris ring it AGAIN! Ka-ching, Ka-ching [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi tom and all.

Did I hear another expense account[?]. Thanks WESTCOASTS DAVE I'll have a Bathams if I may. Glad you will still be able to come to the Octoberfest [tup].TOM promised he wouldn't let on about HILDA at least TOM saved my blushes by not telling that when Hilda arm wrestled four of the U.P. guys at once, and beat them, that I hid out in the rest-room[*^_^*].

Thanks Tom for Nicks e-mail and attatchments great info much apprciated[tup].It still makes me wonder how that single SHAY ended up in the West Midlands of England.Bilston is now a stop on the West Midland light -rail Metro running between Birmingham and Wolverhampton. The main street has been re-developed but they kept a traditional small Holden's pub The TRUMPET.

Well Tom another pint of Bathams please and I' ll tuck into the feast [C=:-)] NICK has prepared PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Herr Tom and the gang. You actually want me on the payroll[?] I'm willing to where the lederhosen one question though. Having conciderable Scott's herritage does one where lederhosen regimentally as one would where one's kilt[?][;)][:0] BTW hopefully once Sat. polka fest starts Boris doesn't get his suspenders caught in the ceiling fans again[:0][B)] Sounds like you had a good trip, no pictures of Hilda I hope[;)] this is a pg rated forum after all.[:I] Nick If you are buying the round in Cochrane when am I booking the trip on the Polar Bear express for us[?] Tom Though I've never spent a night in any of the CP hotels I have had lunch at the Fort gary and Bamff, I've been in the lobby of the Royal York long enough to browse the CPR retail store there. About all I could afford was to look but hey it is a nice old building and is still immaculatly cared for.[^] One of my mrr friends had a two nights stay in the Bombardier corporate suite. ( His wedding presant from his best man who works for bombardier in their aerospace feild ) Mike liked the view of the CN yards not sure Bridget appreciated it though. Well folks i'm off fer now have a pleasant rest of your evening. Rob

[siberianmo]

Hi Pete & Rob

Thought I'd catch up on the Posts, then attack the SUMMARY in order to get things back to normal 'round here.

We've had quite a run OPM 'round here as of late (other people's money!) and the bar bell has been getting quite the work out. Sure glad we were able to retireve the old clapper. Still don't know what we're gonna do with the gold plated replacement; aka: Son of WCS (West Coast S)!. Boooooooooooong, Gwoooooooooooooong - just for old time's sake! [swg]

Guess I let the cat out of the bag regarding Hilda, eh [?] Well, you are free to divulge my transgressions should you wish. After all, WHO could possibly get us in trouble here in cyber land [?] [:O]

Happy to know the retransmission of Nick's attachments worked ... never know - degradation and all that.

The Trumpet, now that sounds like a place I'd like to visit! Is it the kinda place where mellow sounds turn to bellowing as the night progresses [?] Trumpet - [yeah] I can dig it ....

Rob Okay - consider yourself on the payroll as of this date. So, hurry on over to Frau Greta's Continental Tailor Shop & Chili Parlo(u)r for your Lederhosen fitting. Insofar as your Kilts are concerned, I suppose you could somehow use your imagination with 'em. Then again, I seriously doubt there's a connection between the wearin' of the traditional Scottish garb and short pants 'n suspenders! [swg]

Duties [?] Ah, yes - for now, consider yourself as the Chandler of the Bar which essentially means that YOU are responsible for ensuring our provisions of food 'n drink never become exhausted - which includes the reefer and two box cars over on the CP sidings. The reefer of course contains our refrigerated supplies, one box car for the Chief Chef's [C=:-)] Kitchen and the other for special events equipment, such as required for tomorrow's kickoff of Oktoberfest. Your salary may be drawn from the cash located in the tub upstairs - in my private quarters. [tup]

[#welcome] Aboard! [}:)][:-,] You have joined some fine company: Nick, Chief Chef [C=:-)] - Ted - Manager and Part-time Deserado du jour - and the Cast of Characters headed by Boris ...... 'nuf said! [swg]

Polar Bear Express, without moi, are you kidding [?]! [%-)]

I can only imagine what it must have been like back in the "hey day" of railroad travel to have had the opportunity to stay the night at one or more of those great CPR hotels and lodges. About a year or so ago, we watched a great documentary on the building of one of them in the Canadian Rockies (Alberta) and man oh man was it ever a beautiful sight. It's still functioning and super expensive - something that perhaps now that you are on the payroll 'round here, you may want to consider taking Heather to! [swg]

Catch y'all later ... SUMMARY time approaches!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning Guys! The end of the week is upon us and why not kick it off with a trip over the pastry case and select a few from The Mentor Village Bakery. Also, the coffee is fresh and hot. It will make a fitting companion to your lightbreakfast selection! [tup] So, let’s get on with it …… [yeah]

News of the Day:

(1) Tonight is Pizza Nite along with our other Friday “staple” – sirloin steak ‘n fries! Perhaps Nick will add something to his Nick’s Picks Menu Board. Come hungry – dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) OKTOBERFEST at ”Our” Place begins tomorrow, October 1st at Noon!

We will feature GERMAN brew all month!

GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings!

On Saturday’s in October The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the “Our” Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio

Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month!

Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips to Can-Am Gorge on weekends – 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the ”Our” Place platform at 10 AM sharp, undt ve mean, sharp![swg]

PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US!

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags , Heralds of the Fallen Flags and Passenger Train Nostalgia

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 - CNR
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” in the 1800’s and early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 California Zephyr’s Budd Co. Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge
118 – RI
119 – D&H
120 - PRR
121 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #3 Canadian Pacific Hotels & Lodges

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 07:11:10 (121) Thursday’s News & Summary

(2) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 07:34:15 (121)

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 08:11:18 (121)

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 08:47:59 (121) catch up

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 12:00:57 (121) Passenger Train Nostalgia #3

(9) pwolfe Pete Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 16:29:05 (121)

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 16:53:13 (121) reply to pwolfe

(11) West Coast S Dave Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 18:13:58 (121)

(12) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 18:54:35 (121)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 19:05:28 (121) reply to West Coast S

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 19:22:51 (121) reply to nickinwestwales

(15) West Coast S Dave Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 19:35:46 (121)

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 19:58:0 (121)

(17) passengerfan Al Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 20:01:33 (121)

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 20:36:17 (121) reply to West Coast S – nickinwestwales – passengerfan

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 22:02:35 (122)

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 Sep 2005, 22:34:09 (122)

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 30 Sep 2005, 07:54:43 (122) reply to pwolfe & trolleyboy

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

New York Central System (NYC)

Headquarters: New York City

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 1,965 Electric: 65

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 94,115 Passenger cars: 2,905

Principal routes in 1950:

New York-Buffalo, NY-Cleveland, OH-Chicago, IL
Buffalo-Detroit, MI-Porter, IN (Chicago)
Boston, MA-Albany, NY
Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati, OH
Gallion, OH-St. Louis, MO
Chicago-Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati
Indianapolis-Peoria, IL
Cleveland-Pittsburgh, PA
Detroit-Toledo, OH-Springfield, OH
Toledo-Columbus, OH-Charleston, WVA
Utica, NY-Montreal, QC

Passenger trains of note:

Chicagoan (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Chicago Mercury (Chicago-Detroit)
Cincinnati Mercury (Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Cleveland Mercury (Detroit-Cleveland)
Cleveland Limited (New York-Cleveland)
Commodore Vanderbilt (New York-Chicago)
Detroiter (New York-Detroit)
Detroit Mercury (Cleveland-Detroit)
Empire State Express (New York-Buffalo)
James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati)
Knickerbocker (New York-St. Louis)
Lake Shore Limited (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
The Michigan (Chicago-Detroit)
Motor City Special (Chicago-Detroit)
New England States (Chicago-Cleveland-Boston)
Ohio State Limited (New York-Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Pacemaker (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Southwestern Limited (New York-St. Louis)
20th Century Limited (New York Chicago)
Twilight Limited (Chicago-Detroit)
Wolverine (Chicago-Detroit-New York)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

"Du, du liegt mir im Hertzen..." Jawohl, ein guttest trinken lied in 3/4/ zeit. That's about all the "fractured" Deutch you will hear from mir.[:O] Sounds like we are ready and eager to meet the "Our" Place October Festival with all proper decorum and traditional German protocol, in other words: "let it all hang out."[tup] [C=:-)] glad you discretely chose a menu of "lighter" fare than the traditional Hog Jowls, Red Cabbage, Hot Bacon Dressing and "throw in the Oink for good measure" dishes. The last German cuisine I devoured was at the Lorelei Restaurant in Yorkville (82nd Ave and Amsterdam, N.Y.C.) where, after the third course (potato dumplings drizzled with burnt butter), I was removed by ambulance for resuscitation.[V]

Tom, its still too early for anything more than a light pastry and a cuupa non-leaded Java. Really impressed with the R.R. Hotels of yore to the present. There were also R.R. hotels here in the States very near the stations, mostly catering to train crews. Definitely not for the "Hoi Polloi!" Most of these were in older towns and cities in the East. I guess you could call these "flea bags" forerunners of truck stops, "greasy spoons" and all. No offence to any of you Drovers, I had some great meals at those Diners. They weren't the Super Cheif, of course, but for the buck; lots'a chow.[^]

I see a Amtrak Acela met a car "in harms way." When will they ever eliminate grade crossings on high speed routes? Probably wouldn't matter in any case. We had a middle aged woman hit on a trestle near Tampa the other day. She was jogging to lose weight. Can you imagine?[:O] Okay, looking forward to tomorrow's gala of gluttony, gorging and gemutlich heit. If I missed anyone, I'll try again on the morrow between copius drafts of Bohemian Pilsner (Czech) and Wurtzburger Lagers.[:D] In the meantime, let's see what Sunday photo ops have to offer.[tup]

[Trainnut484]

Hello Tom and everyone. Miller Lite for me. Thanks for posting the NYC info Tom [tup]This post below from Terry Thompson, MR editor, has appeared on the MR and Garden Railways forums, but I think the outcome will effect us here on the Classic Trains Forum:

**NOTE** I think the forum administrators removed the topic below. I don't see it anywhere on the MR forum.

QUOTE: Dear forum participants,

We’ve had some threads and actions in the forums lately that we at Kalmbach Publishing Co. believe to be out of place, including off-color posts, off-topic posts, flame wars, and unsubstantiated claims about various companies both inside and outside our hobby. Because of these actions, the forums are requiring more and more of our time to maintain. The forums are also straying farther and farther from our original goals for them, which were to provide a place for model railroaders to exchange helpful information about the hobby and to provide a place for newcomers to get advice about our hobby.

First of all, we'd like to apologize to our loyal users who haven't taken part in these threads. We're sorry that you had to put up with this behavior, and we thank you for using the forums appropriately.

Our company’s investment in these forums, in both time and money, is substantial. As long as we believe that this time pays off for our customers, the hobby, and our firm, we will continue to devote resources to these forums. Recent events have led us to have serious doubts about the value of this commitment, however.

The options open to us include deleting topics much more frequently than we have, closing the forums to new registrants, limiting the forums to subscribers, deleting selected forums to conserve our time, and closing the forums temporarily or permanently. None of these options are very attractive to us, but it’s even less attractive to have inappropriate forums out there representing our magazines and our hobby.

We haven’t made our decision yet. But if the next time you try to visit the forums you find that they’re more limited than they are now or closed entirely, you’ll know why.

Thanks for your time, and thanks especially for reading Garden Railways, Classic Toy Trains, and Model Railroader.

Sincerely,
Terry Thompson
Publisher

I've already put in my [2c] on the MR forum. I hope everyone here does the same [:)]

Take care,

Russell

[West Coast S]

Morning Tom and the gang... We had a senior agent who took her staff car for vacation...and totaled it...all without written authorization to travel as well as being AWOL...We do have our equivelent of the Court Martial.

She was reduced in grade and transfered to Iraq pending a final decision, at the conclusion of her sixteen month tour, she returned to PDS, debriefed and presented with her walking papers.. God help anyone who plays fast and loose with cash assets.

Spot of the Juan Valdez if you please.

Enough shop talk,, morning gang, I see drink night was rousing sucess.

Regarding Railroad Hotels, SP operated a few in the early part of the 20th century. The grandest was the Monterey, constructed in 1888 by interest who sought to promote the area. The business potential was so great SP purchased the South Pacifc Coast narrow guage lines to Monterey to deprive any potential suiters of developing the area. Traffic was sufficient to justify a daily delux train to the hotel. Fire would level the structure in the 20s, with SP electing not to rebuild.

At one time the Cliff House in San Francisico was controlled by SP interest. The main hotel complex was destroyed in the ensuing fires caused by the 1906 quake. The remaining portion continued into the 90s as a restaurant before being razed. consummed many a meal there in my time...

The grandest was the Alpine Tavern & Inn, located atop Mt. Lowe, a jewel in the Pacific Electric crown. PE would disembark passengers at Ruby Canyon, above Pasadena for transfer to the 7.5 mile incline railway which was famous the world over for the trestle work and other engineering feats needed to traverse the rugged terrain. In the late 20s Thadius Lowe, owner and builder of the Inn & Tavern and driving force in the incline railway being completed, was forced to surrender his ownership to PE or face personal ruin caused by the effects of the depression. PE suffered through washouts and landsides on the incline caused by severe winter rains of 1931, the entire line was closed for over a year. PE regrouped and rebuilt, but already patronage had fallen off. Eventually fire would destroy a set of trestles near the summit, the Tavern & Inn was also destroyed around the same time in a second fire, known as the Pilot Peak blaze.

PE salavaged the rails and machinary , pulled the line to Ruby canyon and exited the canyon for good. In the ensuing decades fire and the effects of man man would
reduce all vestiges. The US Forest service, dynamited the power house and all surviving strucures in 1962, items too large to move, were simply bulldozed over the mountain side, the rails that PE was unable to salvage, were uncovered and also tossed over the side.

Despite the carnage done, A sucessfull legal effort by dedicated persons has garnered National Historic Preservation status for the entire former route. Considerable restoration of the line has been in progress by volunteers, The Forest Service and several counties for ther last several years, one can now hike to the Tavern & Inn location which is being reconstructed as funds permit on the orginal foundations that somehow avoided the dynamite. Will the Incline Railway be restored next? Portions of the grade have been cleared of brush and numerous landslides to date, beyond that, no one's talking.


Dave [8D]

[siberianmo]

Hello Russell

Appreciate the information and head's up! I've read of these concerns before and hope that we are "in bounds." However, I've also read of the many disgruntled users out there who for whatever the reason feel that THEY and only THEY have the inside track (appropriate, eh?) with regard to the use of the Forums.

Okay - here's the idea for us: As always - we MUST maintain that connection between what we like to do (fun) and what we love to do (talk of Classic Trains) - so it shouldn't be all that difficult for us to remain in bounds.

For All: This is important if you want to stay in touch - PLEASE send me your Email address - should we be shut down, perhaps we may have to find another place in order to maintain our communications. So, PLEASE do it now!

Thanx!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]