"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom and the gang. I think that i'll partake in a cr and perhaps some of the leftovers form Nick's wonderfull menu from last night. First of thanks again for all the condollances, means alot to Heather amd myself. Nick The yard you haave discribed is indeed the CPR Agincourt yard. The Oshawa/ Whitby Go lines would be the gop facillity you are or were seeing on the map. Pwolfe I'm glad you liked the url on the west coast museum. A gentlemean from that museum made a post or two on my museum thread. They are bound and determined to get 2860 back into the realm of the alive and kicking and pulling passengers again in BC. Also mention of the passing of one of the forefathers of the NS/NW steam excursions is sad. My understanding is however that both 611 and 1218 are still capable of operating under steam hopefully a UP style steam program may ensue once again. I was actaually talking with one of our museum's older members. He had just recently returned from a trip to Fort Edmonton ( a family visit but there is a quite good trolley / steam museum out there as well ) apparently there is a CPR Selkirk on display out there (2-10-4 I beleave) any way these locos were built in the late 40's and were used for less than 15 yearsin real service. According to the Ft Edmonton people the CPR is interested in reactivating this unit and run it along with their Hudson 2816 in Royal canadian Pacific steam excursions. Hopefully this isn't just a dream. Imagine the two of them pulling the CPR heavyweights cross country ! [tup] ted I'm glad that the snail mail arrived intact,I'm glad also that you enjoyed it. Our museums movings and shakings newsletter is available sans the pictures on the museum website. It gives a two month snapshot of happenings at the HCRY. CM3 Another tour de force posting my friend keep them comming, I don't think that Ralph would be " sending you to the moon" with that info it was really well done. I will add a few interesting " seasonal shots " to sunday's picture fest. Everyone keep well and I'll pop back in later. Rob

[West Coast S]

Morning Tom, Nick, CM3, trolleyboy and all the others. "Our Place" has indeed come of age. Order Of the stools I am humbled, such a occasion requires a round for the house.

Some much to digest, where does one begin?

Ok who remembers the NKP 2-8-4 759 being restored for use on the Golden Spike Centenial?, Raise your hands, cause your'e dating yourself. I witnessed it working Horseshoe Curve, Helmsetter on the Western Maryland and shaking up the hollows of West Virginia as it returned to Steamtown in 1970.

Regarding the A class, three survived in stationary boiler service for Dow Chemicals in Charleston West Virginia. All were purchased in 1960, plant management had the foresight not to scrap the tenders, although severe mutilation of steam piping was necessary to convert them to their new lease in life.

By 1964 they were no longer needed, 1218, being the most complete of the group, was purchased by Steamtown, the remaining two were stripped for parts and scrapped on site. Steamtown never accepted dilivery, conveying the title to the VTM. Now in a interesting twist of fate a Z class 2-6-6-2 was purchased by a foundry around the same time frame, it's fate remains unknown and many believe it to still exist.

Though I never had the pleasure to witness the 611 or 1218 in excursion service , I do remember them from static display at the VTR. I was aboard a 4501 excursion in 1973 from Roanoke to Bluefield and a 1977 excursion behind 4501 & T&P 2-10-4 #610.

From what I understand the 1218 is a gutted hulk, it was in the Birmingham shops disassembled for boiler and firebox repairs when the program was terminated, Steve Lee, of the UP steam program was instrumental in the 1218 not being sold off piecemeal as was being considered. With the demise of the steam program the excursion fleet was auctioned off along with spare parts and all machine tools.

NS ordered the 1218 and long stored 2-8-4 2716 vacated from the Birmigham shops so it could be razed, she was hastly reassembled and moved to the NorrisTown shops, where she languished, forgotten until returned to Roanoke.

The 611 was permitted to power what would have been otherwise a diesel powered final excursion in December of 1994. Hence she returned to Roanoke in operating condition, working her way to her second retirement. It would be tough without the required supporting infastructure or a willing management to restore the NS steam program.


A Plaque applied to her cab summed up the somber occasion:

I am the throughbred of steam
Born to run, born to be free
Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do



A sad day for all. A round for the house in remberance.

Off to my briefing, catch you all on the upside

Dave [tup]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Gongratulations to WEST COAST S DAVE and THANK YOU ALL for the honour of THE ORDER OF THE RESERVED STOOLS it is a pleasent surprise and indeed a honour to be in the company of such knowledgeable and kind GENTLEMEN.

ROUND FOR ALL PLEASE BORIS[tup].

I am afraid this is a short visit as my better half tells me we are off to stay with her friend in Stocton M.O. for the Walnut festival " Dont worry it will be fun".

Hope fully I will be able to talk to my pal in England and find about The Great Marquess.

Anyway thanks again for the honor PETE.

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Nice gathering the bar this afternoon. [tup]

Rob Given that you addressed your comments to everyone other than ME - nice you stopped by! Grrrrrrrrrrrr. [swg] What's to comment on you might say [?] Check back and I'm sure there's something there! [;)] Don't feel picked on - just picked at! [swg]

Dave DMI - the Committee made a good choice - Congratulations! [yeah][wow][tup] The onus is now on you to maintain that degree of support expected from members of The Order of Permanent Stools.

Interesting contribution, although I'm no help with your question regarding steam loco's. I'll leave that to the Aficionado's 'round here. Also, thanx for the round - Boris ring the bell. What [?] Okay - you're installing the new clapper. Fine - ring it when it's ready, Dave's green is good 'til then! [swg]

Pete Ditto with the DMI - you have quickly become "one of us," whatever that means! [swg] Congratulations and glad to have you aboard! [yeah][wow][tup] By the by - now that you're a real regular at our cyber bar 'n grill - you've got to know the players 'round here. Boris does NOT tend bar - he's not permitted to serve drinks. That's my job, or in my absence - Cindy and Leon the Night Man. Geesh!

Received your Email and glad that it's a GO for our Amtrak trip! [yeah][tup]

Thanx for the round! Boris ring the GONG - twice! Good Gawd Gertie, sounds like Notre Dame Cathedral at Christmas! That new clapper has surely changed the sound of our bell! [wow]

Okay - gotta get back to business.

Anyone see the Fallen Flag for today [?]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon again everyone. First off Tom I would like a tall long island ice tea and some beer nuts whilst I gather my thoughts.

Thot#1 Congrats to West coast and Pwolfe for their elevations to higher status a job well done both of you[tup] Thot #2 Dave Thanks for the NS steam rememberances, hopefully a second reactivation an still be had. Sad bit poinant that placque truer words probebly can't be said.

Thot #3 My first attempt at a new segmant. classic Juice. First up The London and Port Stanley Railway or L&PS The L&PS was originally chartered by the Great Western Railway in 1853. It's purpose to run freight ie coal to the cities of London, St Thomas, Elgin & Middlesex ( all in southwestern ontario )Originally built to the great western's 51/2 foot guage. Fears of the Great Westerns practice of monopoply pricing the cities purchased the road and leased it back to the Great western to operate for 20 years thus limiting price increases.


In 1872 this steam road's lease was up and also the great western as well ( swallowed by the greed of it's owners ) A second 20 year lease was granted to theLake Erie and Detroit river Line( this became the Pere marquette) They ran as a mostly coal hauling road with summer passenger trains to the beaches. As the second Lease was comming to an end the Ontario government was activly pursueing a Scheme to build a province wide electric interurban net work under the ospices of one Sir Adam Beck ( London on MPP and father of the hydro electric commission.Indeed the hydro plants in Niagara falls are still Adam Beck 1 and 2 )


In 1913 when the second lease was up the L&PS was electrified new 80lbs rail and a 1500vDC system and catenery was strung. Five steel motor cars with monitor roof were ordered from Jewett in Ohio. 59 feet long 92,900 lbs cars with 4 125hp GE traction motors. cars 2,4,6,8 &10.Three wooden trailers non powered but with mu controls for train operation were ordered from Preston car and coach in Preston on. cars # 1,3,5. The L&PS interchanged with CN and CP in London and with the Michigan central in St Thomas.


Later in 1915 three electric boxcabs electrified the frieght operations these were built by Preston and numbered L1,2 and L3. Each was capable of moveing 50 loaded coal cars or other general merchandice ferried from conneat ohio. in 1917 two more steel motors were purchased 72 feet long #12 and 14. For forty years the L&PS ran electric service only loosing money twice. Once in 1933 the next time in 1953. Hourly service was run on the 40 mile round trip road with three to 6 car passenger trains common. All cars were geared and capable of 70 miles an hour and mostly ran at those speeds as the L&PS was 90% private ROW with a few under/overpasses for hwy 3 etc.


In 1956 Ontario Hydro was begining to change the power system in the area from25 to 60 cyclesand the city of London which still owned the ROW couldn't afford the rectifier upgrades as passenger numbers were decreasing. As a result in Feb 1957passenger service north and south of St Thomas was ended.frieght operations were dieselized in 1960 although up till 1963 electric service still ran on in the express service London to St Thomas.


In 65 the city discontinued ownership and all power was shut off. Todays port stanley terminal operates whats left of this line in their excursion service. Several cars are still with us. Our Museum has #8 and trailer # 3. We also have locomotive L 2. The Delson Museum in Quebec has # 10 & # 12. And the Elgin county museum in St Thomas has # 14 and freight engine L 1. Photo's of these can be found in our Museums website my rail images account and in several hard bound books. Hope everyone enjoyed. Rob

[trolleyboy]

Tom I ment no snub. Your continued series of the fallen flags is greatly enjoyed. I know form the research I had done on the above posting that that kind of thing is time consuming to say the least.[tup][tup] Hope you like my new twist on Classic Juice of the past. BTW Heather has said to pass along her thanks on yours and ted's and everyone elses condolences. friends are where it's at in times like these. Boris ring your ding dong i'm picking up the next round for transgressions real and imagined. [swg]Happy rails. Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day (again) Sir Rob

All's well with the world - now that you've discovered the Posts! Funny thing about those things, they seem to hide themselves so well, kinda blend in with the scenery 'round here! [swg]

Like your idea with the Classic Juice [tup][tup][tup] A suggestion - -perhaps a bit easier on the old orbs (eyes) if they could be formatted a bit more friendlier - as in paragraphs with some spacing. Whatyathink [?] [swg]

I understand the feeling of loss of a loved one - it just never is something that any of us are prepared for when that time comes. Be strong for your bride, my friend! [tup] Many thanx to you for the Posts of today. Always can count on you for support. [yeah]

That new clapper for our bell has turned this thing into a monster, of sorts. Goooooooooooooong, bwooooooooooong! Geesh! Great idea, West Coast S Dave - any other brilliant suggestions [?] [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Howdy folks,A quick clearing of the air first-My `letter` to BUDD was not meant as any sort of `dig` or rant,more of an apology (something we Brits are Jolly good at,dontcherknow ) I derive a great deal of pleasure from this thread and the thought that I might have spoiled it for someone else was rather galling to me,since BUDD had been honest enough to `lay it on the line` I felt he was entitled to a full and frank response-the fact that I had seemingly rather missed the point ,compounded with a failure to express myself clearly obviously hasn`t helped--BUDD-Lets lift a few cold ones and take it from the top ....nick

[siberianmo]

Hi Nick

You didn't spoil anything for anyone nor did you fail to express yourself clearly.

Just one of those things. Happens to me quite often! Open mouth, insert foot ..... oh well. [swg]

I'll buy the round whenever we hear from Bud, but for now - you 'n I can surely toast to the good health of "Our" Place! Cheers, mate, arggggggggh!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Good evening Tom and all [:D]. I'll have a Miller Lite please.

CONGRATULATIONS to West Coast S Dave for the promotion to Permanent Stool member and to Pwolfe Pete for being the next chosen one for Reserved Stool status [tup][yeah][bow][bow]

West Coast S Dave, thanks for sharing a memory of 611 and 1218. That plaque says it all.

Just came back from visiting Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 261 here at Union Station, and boy was it a blast [:D][^]. Actually, I was there also earlier this afternoon, but the rain kept me to taking pictures of it from the parking garage. The smell of coal-burnt steam is something that should be taken in with great pleasure[^]. Only so many can remember those magnificent coal burners in their glory years. I first saw the 261 at a Topeka, KS RR Days festival about 6 or 7 years ago, and I was hooked.

Sorry to you, Tom, and everyone else who is coming to the KC Rails Expo this weekend. I'm going to be out of town doing a little modeling research and driving my mother to her school reunion (she doesn't like driving so much anymore), and won't be back till late Sunday night. So in that aspect, I'm jumping the Sunday Photo Fun gun by posting a few pix a little earlier.

ENJOY [8D]



WHOOAA now it's getting hot !!


Outside cab shot engineer's side (best view from any train [;)])


Milwaukee RD 261 with KCS Southern Belle in background.


I'll have another Miller Lite while I sit here in soak in the steam ambiance [^]

Russell

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the gang, round of JWB.

Someone, put me out of my misery if I have to attend any future multi -agency briefings . Free me from idiots and senior officers! Rant, rant.rant, you get the point.

Round of the usual and is it my ears ringing or did Boris complete the clapper Installation? I hope it's Boris for my sanity.

Regarding steam programs, I suspect UP will someday consider a drawdown, perhaps retiring 844/3985 in leiu of diesels. This was the course NS was considering when the decision was made to competely terminate the excursion program. Under the proposed plan, 611 and 1218 would have been returned to Roanoke to be stuffed and mounted with diesels assuming the power assignments.

SP had no desire to be burdened with a steam excursion program, it was standard procedure to send power of less then ten years of age or recently overhauled to the scrap dock the moment diesels became available. SP was not alone in this practice, it was a symbol of the times.

Other then several excursions, one occuring in 1957 the second in 1958, the first being the final run of a Cab Forward over Donner the latter the fairwell to steam excursion behind GS-6 4460. The final standard guage steam operations occured on the SP De Mexico lines in October 1959.

I have some 4449 news, earlier this week I was contacted regarding where SP scrapped its steam power. A complex question unto itself , this indvidule is either directly or indirectly involved with the operation of the 4449. The request was for a source of her orginal chime whistle, seems SP removed and replaced prior to donating the locomotive to Portland
I'm curious if he has had any luck.


Dave [tup]

[nickinwestwales]

Right ,I`ll come back in and start again--[4:-)]TOM,as it`s friday and I`m looking down the barrel of a long hot night in the Galley with the Carpathian castaway we had best get straight in with the good stuff-A Staropramen for me,an Alexander for yourself,large brandies for our new alumnii (right word?) along with warm congratulations, and naturally a little something for the rest of the stools as and when present.congrats also to gov. Kerry & T.R.E for thinking outside the box and not worrying about potential flak from "upstairs"--not often I say this,but sounds like my kind of politician. A little history on the new `stores` van,90xxx series boxes built with 6`6" doors later 91xxx larger doors & 92xxx larger again ( need to cross reference here and cant without losing this,so will get back to you) mostly used in newsprint service including ,during steam days a regular block working to the New York Times printers via O.N,C.N,T.H.B&N.Y.C metals,all behind O.N.R power. would likely had yellow painted doors for N.P traffic. "Progressive" livery introduced mid 60`s to replace "development rd" and lasted until late 70`s introduction of "chevron" blue. A number of these cars still in M.O.W service,mostly based out of North Bay although I believe more scattered around system as static stores,as envisioned here-will provide pix for sunday slide-show. WOLFMAN PETE-thought I`d got a hook on that Shay-hit the link & it brought me to yesterday`s `still havn`t found it` remark on this very thread-slightly scary. As to your weekend away,I can`t ever recall either using or even hearing,the words Walnut,Fun & Festival used in the same sentence before-I shall be intrigued to read your next post....MANAGER TED-Irony-isn`t that like coppery or brassy but more prone to rust......?-glad you`re still enjoying the cuisine-should you (or any of you) fancy trying any of these dishes,just drop me a line and will gladly send recipe`s ROB-glad we got that yard thing sorted-nice one !!-R.E L&P.S-sure I`ve seen something on a link from the `Northland` site-seem to remember mention of coal hauls by multiple lash-ups of pass. motors-could be completely off target here,indeed I may well be quoting one of your earlier posts back at you........CM3-what can I say?..Another little beauty,evokes memories of the run into (London) Victoria from Clapham Jn,also Edinburgh Waverly fom Fife,via the Forth bridge. Right Steaks and Pizza seem to be the order of the day,luckily enough we`re not short of meat currently-although much of it in such condition as to render it suitable only for curries for the track-gangs weekly pool,shuffle board & checkers triathlon. Tonight therefore [C=:-)] `s recommendation is-drink heavily before ordering................May be a little erratic in posting for next few days -In-laws coming to stay,so room with computer suddenly becomes bedroom with computer-on the plus side,Himself should be bringing his collection of 1940`s Swiss & Austrian trains down for a run-again will get pix for S/S/Show,O.K-finally waffled to a halt -back to the galley,see you all later nick[C=:-)]

[nickinwestwales]

PETE-quick P.S-are we looking at Bilston,nr Wolverhampton or Bilston GLEN in Scotland-both seemed to have similar industrial Coal/Iron base ? N.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Nick Appreciate your taking the time to check out that URL on the TRE that I posted. Quite enlightening indeed. []tup] At least someone took the time to READ! <chagrin>

Dave Now look, mate - I was (and still am,. albeit retired) a senior officer. So watch it! Suggest that painting with too wide a brush will always get one in more difficulty than not.

Russell Nice pix! Nope, I'm not going to be in KCity this weekend and hadn't planned to. Anyway, Pete and I will be heading out on Amtrak next week for a full day of train travel - out and back same day.

Nick Appreciate the insight regarding those ONR cars .. .had no clue, thanx! [tup] You have a keen eye for detail ..... Have to admit that I've never developed that degree of fine tuning when it comes to freight cars and really don't know why not. Passenger cars are it for me. I'll have to do better with my inventory .... I read up on what I buy, then promptly forget what the literature revealed. Kind of a mental block ....

We'll be looking for your Sunday Picture Posting and don't be concerned about any absences. After all, you've more than paid your share of the dues 'round here! [swg]

Appreciate the drinks ... Boris Do it .... Goooooooooong, Bwooooooooong!

Dave [yeah] That new clapper has totally changed the ring of our bell. Gooooooooong, Gwoooooooooong! Sounds like the end is near - or something like that. Any more brilliant ideas [?] [swg]

HEY! Are you reading these Posts [?] [yeah] YOU! Hmmmmmmmmmm - Permanent Stool members are attentive - thrifty - brave - clean and ..... <huh> [?]

Thanx for the round ... okay, I'll regret this, but Boris Ring the GONG! Goooooooong, Bwoooooooooong! Arggggggghhhhh. I'm getting that old clapper back tomorrow. This is ridiculous!

Catch ya all later .. and a word to all: READ THE BLINKETY BLANK POSTS WILL YA [?]

Also a tip: USE THE REFRESH button BEFORE YOU CHECK OUT just to see if any NEW POSTS have been made. Sure helps when trying to maintain some continuity with these discussions ......<phew>

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom, How about a CR and a round for the house. Congrats to West Coast S Dave and Pwolfe.
Just thought I would relate waht I thought was one of the greatest short train rides in their ever was.
I am talking about the GN INTERNATIONALS between Seattle and Vancouver. They first entered service June 18, 1950. Within days of their entry into service my parents brother and I were aboard for a weekend trip from Seattle to Vancouver to vist Grandparents. We had ridden the heavyweight predecessor but it never sttod out in a young boys mind like the bright shiny new streamliner. The INTERNATIONALS operated three round trips daily using two five car sets of equipment. One set was initally assigned a pair of EMD F3A F3B for power the other a single EMD E7A unit. From memory I believe the trip was 154 miles by rail and was scheduled for four hours.

Departure from Seattle's King Street Station was to the north through the tunnel under the city to the waterfront. As the train passed along the waterfront ahead one could see Magnolia Bluffs and the two large Navy Piers 90 and 91. as the train changed direction one could see the Interbay GN yard and the Interbay engine house complete with turntable that is still active today. After passing through a cut one was crossing the Bridge over the Lake Washington Ship canal where ships could pass from the salt water of Puget sound to the fresh water of Lake Union and Lake Washington. Many Alaska Steamships spent the winter in the lake before the start of another busy summer season. For the next thirty miles the two track mainline of the GN passed alongside Puget Sound and looking out the windows passengers could see the Olympic Mountains on the Olympic Peninsula across Puget sound and watch the ferries and other traffic on the sound. The train stopped on the lower level of the Everett Station and if the wind was from the north when the doors were opened for boarding passengers you got the first whiff of the pulp Mills located on the north side of Everett. That is one smell no one can ever forget. As the train traveled north of Everett across the tidal flats it crossed several bridges before arriving in Marysville a short flag stop I believe. The land was forested along this stretch of track and before one knew it the train was in the fertile fields of the Skagit Valley. The trains next stop was at Mount Vernon where the customs agents boarded the train northbound and conducted their inspections of passenger documents and luggage. In the Parlor Observation cars PORT OF VANCOUVER and PORT OF SEATTLE was located a customs office. By boarding at Mount Vernon it gave the customs agents time to put aside any one that would be denied passage to Canada and they would be removed from the train northbound at Blaine and southbound at White Rock. One of the most scenic parts of this route was after departure from Mount Vernon as the route returned to Puget Sound and traveled along a route the highway high above called the Chuckanut Drive really spectacular with mountains dropping right into Puget sound. The railroad tunneled filled and built trestle work to navigate this stretch. Arriival in Bellingham meant for our family time to return from the diner and relax before arrival at the border at Blaine where one could see the Peace Arch as the train crossed the border and entered Canada. The rest of the friday night trip was in darkness through White Rock and onto New Westminister where the huge bridge over the Frazer River was crossed and the station was located right at the end of the brigde so part of the train was still on the bridge for this station. Then it was a fast rund behind the industries to Vancouver and arrival at GN Station. My dad hated the drive so we were lucky to take the train and most times we made the trip at least one weekend a month to vist the grandparents. I remember most trips were made in the parlor car as my dad was a firm believer in if you must travel "Travel First Class". We always retuirned on the Noon International on Sunday. As we got older my dad sent my brother alone on the train for a month with the Grandparents and I followed the next month. We always returned with our parents who would come up the last weekend of our month at the grandparents. For the life of me I have been trying to find the names of the Parlor car attendants we most often traveled with and when you need them you can't find them. When we made the trip alone my dad always went out on the platform and gave the parlor car attendant a rolled up bill to look after us or maybe it was to lose us. I know we travelled ofetn enough on the Internationals the crews knew us by name.
The five car streamliners consisted of a 30'RPO baggage Car two 60 seat coaches, a 28 seat Coach 24 seat Dining car and the parlor observation with 17 regular parlor seats and 17 seats in the observation end. There was also a parlor Bedroom for day use the customs office and a room for the Parlor car attendant to fix adult beverages for my dad.
Well enough of my rambling. I understand Amtrak operates along this route today.

[siberianmo]

Hi Al

Just lost a Post ...... argggggggggh! Okay - one more time.

Thanx for the round - Boris wait 'til I leave the bar, then ring the Gong! Goooooooooong, Bwooooooooooong! <Can't hear a thing!>

A couple of years ago while in Vancouver, BC we entertained thoughts of taking the Amtrak Talgo south to Seattle. When checking out the schedule, we changed our minds in that the arrival time would have us arriving around 10 PM. That kind of time just isn't conducive to spending big bucks for a downtown hotel room.

Passenger railroad schedules past and present - someone always feel slighted along the route insofar as arrivals and departures are concerned. I will never understand the rationale though with less than friendly times for the beginning and ending of a run.

Your accounting of the GN Internationals is appreciated and as always, well done! Thanx ... [tup][tup]

I concur with your Dad and his thoughts regarding if one must travel - go first class. My only caveat to that would be, if one must travel for FUN, then it's most definitely first class.

Have you had an opportunity to check out the URL I posted in my morning Post on page 116 [?] Concerns the TRE and is worth the read. Thought for sure you'd catch it ....

Well, it's time for me to check out .... .Leon the Night Man has arrived! [yeah]

Nite! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

SATURDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Saturday is here – the day to catch up on things around the home, in the yard, with the automobile, and if you are so blessed – with the family. [tup] Pull up a stool and have a cuppa Joe while we check through the happenings.

News of the Day:

(1) A hearty Congratulations to West Coast S Dave for elevation to member of the Order of the Permanent Stools and to pwolfe Pete for induction into the Order of the Stools as a Reserved Stool member. [yeah][wow][tup]

(2) Index pages for Fallen Flags Posts:

106 - SP
108 - MoPac
109 - WP
110 - Frisco
112 - CNR (fallen only as a passenger carrier)
114 - ACL
115 - SCL
116 - D&RGW

Additionally: Heralds of the Fallen Flags are on page 112 and Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 on page 113.

(3) Sunday we are CLOSED, however it is Sunday Picture Posting Day [tup]

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 00:04:46 (116) Friday’s News & Summary

(2) BudKarr BK Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 01:24:26 (116)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 07:09:36 (116) Fallen Flag – D&RGW

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 07:23:44 (116)

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 08:26:27 (116)

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 09:36:17 (116) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 12:02:36 (116) Selection Committee results

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 12:22:23 (116)

(9) West Coast S Dave Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 13:34:11 (116)

(10) pwolfe Pete Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 13:39:42 (116)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 15:28:16 (116) reply to trolleyboy – West Coast S – pwolfe

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 15:41:47 (116) Classic Juice

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 15:49:49 (116)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 17:03:59 (116) reply to trolleyboy

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 17:59:36 (116)

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 18:20:37 (116) reply to nickinwestwales

(17) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 18:48:15 (116) Pix

(18) West Coast S Dave Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 19:25:08 (116)

(19) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 19:36:56 (117)

(20) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 20:00:01 (117)

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 20:55:47 (117) reply to [b[Trainnut484 – West Coast S – nickinwestwales

(22) passengerfan Al Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 21:21:26 (117) The GN Internationals

(23) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Sep 2005, 21:52:22 (117) reply to passengerfan

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Guys!

Here's a little somethin' to perk up your Saturday!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #2

Here’s a little something taken from the literature associated with the California-Zephyr and its Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge:

Rest and Relaxation in the ”Vista-Dome” Lounge-Observation Car

The spacious and luxurious lounge-observation car at the rear of the train and immediately behind the sleeping cars, furnishes congenial lounging facilities on three different levels for as many as fifty passengers.

Modern ingenious designing and expert fabrication combine to make a composite unit of four distinctly separate accommodations in this exquisite car.

The ‘main floor” lounge is located within the gracefully rounded end of the observation car. Here, deeply-cushioned occasionally chairs and settees, in shades of sandalwood and brown in a setting of rose-tan and petal beige, invite complete relaxation.

Carpeted and individually-lighted steps from the lounge lead to the distinctive air-conditioned “Vista-Dome – tastefully decorated in tones of sandalwood. Here, enclosed in shatter-proof, glare-resistant glass, are twenty-four deep-cushioned seats, where passengers may ride in comfort and enjoy a complete view in every direction.

Nestled beneath the Dome is a buffet. Tastefully decorated in rose and gray-green, it provides a delightful rendezvous in which to speed the miles and minutes. At one end of the buffet is a refreshment counter with carved linoleum base and back bar of stainless steel and etched mirrors. Electric refrigeration units assure an ample supply of cool, refreshing beverages at all times. The buffet has a telephone connection with the dining car, over which table reservations can be made.

Forward from the buffet are three bedrooms and a drawing room, each having enclosed toilet facilities. Each room is attractively decorated in harmonious shades of rose-tan, petal beige, taupe and ashes of roses.

This car is completely carpeted and windows are equipped with Venetian blinds – those in the observation-lounge having drapes of gold and white.

From the “American Passenger Train”

Of note: The design of these Budd manufactured cars carries over to day with the VIA Rail Canada fleet of Park Car observation domes. With slight modifications, the literature quoted above could be closely associated with the cars still in use in Canada.

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good saturdat morning everyone. Tom Are you able to make irish coffee with the sandwich menu ? If so I'd love one with the mystery meat sandwich from thegreat hunting expeditions.[;)][xx(] Nick I know that we are trying to be health conscoius but sheesh a bit too much " iron " in the curry and meat cuttlets[}:)][:D][;)] Perhaps you should allow the "hunters" to hunt with machettee's and spears from now on. More sporting for the critters that way[:0][xx(] BTW You were correct. During the early 60's 1961-63 L&PS did use the passenger cars as mail and coal car pulling power. The freight motors and locomotives were retired first. When our car #8 was retired in 1962 it had been used to pull frieght trains for a good two and a half years. Originally #8 was going to the Ontario science centre to be stuffed and mounted as a tribute to the Hydro electric railways of ontario. Ontario hydro operated twenty or so lines. The plans for this pavillion fell through and we picked up the car in 1973 and embarked on a 15 year restoration. #8 is now the queen of our fleet[^][tup][yeah][:D] Tom and Nick If you folks are interested in proto accurate ONR / TH&B / CPR /CNR type freight cars Sylvain hobbies makes an impressive line of kits have a look they are well worth the money and effort.[tup][^] http://www.isp.on.ca/sylvan/product.html Heater and I know Claire who runs the company he's really good people. Oh Tom he is also a retired engeneer from upper lakes shipping on of the big three Canadain Lake boat fleets, so he makes some nice HO and N scale water line ship and tug boat models as well. Al Thanks for the remenices on the GN trains to Van. I always wondered, did the trackage that GN ran on, did they own it or was it a trackage rights situation ? I understood for instance that the Soo line trains into Winnipeg were joint ops with CP. Just wondering if the GN /CN trains were similar. Well gents have a good rest of your day. Hopefully I'll pop back later. Oh Tom Your emails were recieved they just got lost in a bach log of well wishes from the family i'll be responding shortly. BFN Rob PS Tom I see you snuck another post in there. Good info on the budd cars. I seem to remember you posting it once before likely over on the passenger train thread before it went south[tdn][V][xx(] I haven't been able to check out your last url from a page back yet. I do intend to I just have a fair bit on the plate still this weekend. Visitation tomorrow funeral Monday ( don't get me started on those changes in plans ) anyhow I'll pop back later. Rob

[siberianmo]

Hiya Rob

Irish Coffee it is! Name the poison and it's yours ...... [swg]

Boris is out back trying to restore the old clapper to the bar bell. Man oh man, that gold plated "special" turned the bell into something that surely belongs in a bellfry rather than at a bar 'n grill. Booooooooong Gwooooooooong! There it goes again - Boris just loves it! [V]

Was beginnin' to wonder if anyone would stop by this AM ..... feast or famine, eh [?]

Appreciate the tips on detailed freight rolling stock, HOWEVER, my purchasing days are really at an end - UNLESS there's something out there that is (1) affordable and (2) in VIA Rail livery that I just couldn't resist! Freight on the Can-Am RR is simply for background and realism. The main thrust is passenger rail and I've got loads of that! Again - thanx!

Of course, that doesn't "kill" the deal we made for the swap in May for that CN Zebra we talked about. It's destined for the display case though ....

Nope, the Post on the Budd observation dome hasn't been featured (by me) .... Hope you enjoyed it. This particular "series" is called Passenger Train Nostalgia. The first one I Posted (last week) didn't receive so much as a mention. Go figure!

Don't sweat the Email - I know you've got other things going on - and you SHOULD. After all, this stuff is nothing more than a diversion - hopefully NEVER a full-time endeavor. <Good Grief>!

Thanx for the visit and hope the weekend winds up more joyous for your family than it began.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. Sep 16th):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34)
August 16th (Ted - 67)
September 8th (Rob - 34)
December 29th (CM3) – 59 Next up!

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!


NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES

[Anonymous]

Sorry I'm late! There were a couple of local disastrophys to cover this a.m. First order of fun is congratulations to Dave and Pete for their respective "Order of the Stools Awards." Gentlemen, may we hoist our Steins in their hono(u)r for their cerebral, consistent and compelling contributions, hear, hear![tup] Since it took nearly 2 hours to reach this point , I will try to be brief. Tom, a round for all here assembled, if you please.

Thanks for the TRE information, it is encouraging to hear that some politicians have their "heads out where the Sun does shine.[(-D] Nick, I may take your generous offer of a few recipes seriously. BTW, my "take" on the previous "Post in question" was the same as yours. Know what? I'm not woried about it.[:-^] Rob those are fine additions to an already awesome Web album.[tup] BTW, do you have a preference between Rail Images and Photo Bucket? Passengerfan Al, astute and thorough commentary as we have come to expect, many thanks. CM3, we certainly appreciate having exclusive access to these great postings.[bow] However, your intimate and engaging prose deserves a much wider readership. Shouldn't you be pursuing an increased range for appreciation of your creative writing?[:D] Really, its just plain good

I won't try to cover all the territory thus far posted 'til now. It would require a Tome of pages. I'll make smaller posts on each as they appeared "rear to front," if you will. "Fallen Flags" is, by far, the most popular and provocative idea at "Our" Place thus far. The "Flags" have touched each of us and encouraged some of the finest replys to be found on any of the Forums. Way to go, Captain![swg]

I know most of us realize just what an Oasis in the desert "Our" Place has become to good folks who have endured witless, tasteless and even hateful threads elsewhere.[xx(] I know we will each do what we can to keep a "good thing going."[tup] "Slings and arrows?"..."Sticks and stones!"[tdn] Okay Boris since the clapper isn't up and running yet; hit the bell with those thongs in the Piclke Barrel. DINK Where is the old clapper? In the pickle barrel? [:(!]

[siberianmo]

Awwwwwright, Manager Ted has arrived! [yeah]

Hey! Saturday's are for things just like what you have experienced. No sweat - I'm listening to the Eagles right now - their "Hell Freezes Over" album, now playing "Get Over it!" Love the lyrics .... should play it to the "lefties" protesting in DC.

Thought you'd like that TRE info. Hope *** gets a chance to view it once he returns from the other side of "the Pond."

While you didn't direct the question to ME - I'll make a comment regarding RailImages and Photo Bucket. The latter is much more user friendly and I particularly like the feature of being able to create sub-albums. RailImages has better editing features and a few other more "advanced" applications. But for the "down 'n dirty" - I'd recommend PhotoBucket. I think we can thanx Trainnut484 Russell for letting us know about them ...... That's my [2c] worth! [swg]

Thanx for the kind words regarding the Fallen Flags. I'm extremely pleased with the reception given by the "nucleus" who make this idea of "Our" Place thrive. [tup]

Oh the bell - what's taking Boris so long to change out clappers. Boooooooooong Gwoooooooooooooong! There it goes again! Argggggggggh ...

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Thought I would check-in again since my first post today was tardy. Tom, just a pint of Guiness' Dark in a chilled mug if you will.[^] MAN, I surely enjoyed more than my share of this wonderful quaff while being a Tourist in that enigmatic Land. Thought I would reminisce just a "tad" on some of the features that caught my fancy. First of all, two weeks isn't enough to do any country (or some cities) justice and there is nothing worse than making "hasty generalizations" on scanty evidence. So, any of my personal observations are just that: "personal observations."

This may be something that wouldn't impress anyone else but I wasn't quite ready for the frenzied pace of street pedestrians and privately owned vehicles in the Dublin area. I worked in and around New York City for several summer seasons and am not easily amazed with the "fleet of foot." However, when I'm winded by trying to keep pace with an elderly lady with a shopping cart, I'm dumfounded.[:O] Now, most of us (not all) when boarding a subway or commuter train would hold fast for exiting passengers, then scurry on board. Not so Dublin! You forge ahead elbowing your way into the carriage (car), the more severe the well placed "jabs" the sooner you are seated. Only once did I find it necessary to hang from a strap, so why the panic? I noticed that "pub grub" isn't all it is touted to be from Frommers, Rick Steeves and others. Some of the "bill of fare" in cafeteria style (steam tables) venues in train stations (e.g. Connoly and Houston) was down right abominable. However, most hotels and, of course, B. & B.'s include a breakfast "to kill for."[^] Usually, that would suffice 'til 2:00 p.m. or so but then comes the daunting quest for a mid-day meal that is relatively boneless and at least tepid. Failing that, I often did a "liquid lunch" that never dissapoints. Small wonder the Irish have a cosmos-wide reputation for over indulgence.[:O] Evening meals? I learned to patronize foreign restaurants, i.e. Chinese, Italian, et al. "Going native" may be noble but not always the wisest choice.

The omni buses, both city and highway, have an unusually long overhang behind the rear wheels which should be respected by pedestrians when the bus hurls into a tight radius turn.[xx(]. Reminded me of the long Peter Witts in downtown Kcity, MO, "heads up!"[#oops] I noticed the Cop on the beat, is the "choice of last resort" for most of the Locals. While in Cork, I greeted an Officer with "top of the Mornin" and met with an Ogre's stare that could stop traffic on a L.A. Freeway![V] The last peculiarity I will mention is really "off-the-wall." Its something so trivial that its barely worth the mention, except it caught me like a "sucker punch" to the groin. At the corner Deli/Convenience Store near my Hotel, I was a regular Customer for sundry items and a sandwich "to go." I always had to request a bag for these purchases as it was never offered. The last evening in Dublin brought the wrath of the clerk upon me with some inane slangy quip like: "Wahter yer doin' wid 'em, sellin' dem? St. Patrick, forgive me, but I let fly: "Stiken 'em up me ars Mick, now put it in da bag![:(!] I had enjoyed all the Irish hospitatlity any Yank could stand.[tdn] Okay Boris, I finally let loose with reckless carefree abandon so hit the [#offtopic] bell 'til the "cows come home." Oh Tom, thanks for the Photo Bucket tip. Happy rails all.

[nickinwestwales]

HI [4:-)]TOM and gentlemen all,Happy Saturday--the kitchen is now open for full meal service,we have a back-2-back showing of Hell freezes over and the Hotel California tour on the big screen in the lounge and the weekly all-comers $5 a cue game in the pool room,the bar is reserved for informed discourse & debate-as always.......right-[4:-)]TOM-E-Mail recvd.& responded-with pix-hope useable...MANAGER TED..I fear you have taken a poor impression of your Mother country away with you--The Irish have the best Dead-Pan natural delivery in the world,and a propensity for swearing-a combination that can make it difficult to tell where you stand until you get used to it ---I would recommend the movie "The Commitment`s"-based on the novel by Roddy Doyle,as a musician you should enjoy it on several levels...[swg]...by the by-just send recipe requests by E-M-will return as soon as poss.--Well,just about ready for visit of in-laws house polished,child polished,all train tracks polished-apparently Himself is bringing all his trains,so have declared `open rails` international gala weekend under terms of rule #1 ( I.M.T.S )-will post pix next sunday-apologies to all I`ve missed Hey -before I forget, WOLFMAN PETE-I GOT THE SHAY...!!!!!!!..will E-M doc.later all,take care out there nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

And a good evenin' to y'all!

Nice bit of travelogue, Ted - informative and something different to enjoy this Saturday night! [tup] I conur wholeheartedly regarding having the need to remain in a country and/or city for longer than a bit of time in order to form a definitive opinion. Trouble is that whenever I've had the opporunities to travel, it was mostly in connection with duty and the time really wasn't my own. In retirement, the agenda changes completely - different stage of life - changed priorities, etc. Just the way it works out, I guess.

Oh noooooooooo, don't tell Boris to ring that .... Boooooooooooooong Gwoooooooooooooong! Thanx for the round ..... I think.

By the by, your Email came through and I thank you for your continued support! [tup]

Nick Your Email was received and I appreciate your comments! Pix #2 needs to be retransmitted. The others will do fine for the Sunday Picture Posting! [tup]. Caroll sends her regards ........ [swg]

It's been rather quiet this Saturday, but the Posts have been quality from quality folks! Thanx to all ........ [tup\]

We've been playing the Eagles over 'n over these past couple of weeks - CD's and DVD's. It happens that way, get on a roll with a group and stick with it for awhile. I really enjoy the Farewell 1 Tour DVD, even though the Hell Freezes Over! tour was such a hit. Perhaps only because they reunited .... Oh how I only wish I had the talent to match my appreciation for the music! Maybe in the next go 'round ....... [swg]

As always, thanx for coming in for kitchen duty! Wouldn't have anything to do with Cindy stoppin' by after her Lingerie Show, would it [?] [}:)][:-,]

I'm going to cut out a bit early this Saturday night and turn the bar over to Leon the Night Man.

Enjoy Sunday Picture Posting Day!

Nite! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening morning everyone. Tom I inderstood that you were more of the passenger train guy and that's grrreaaat [tup] I passed along the sylvan site just as an FYI for everyone. Always good to have a few good p[rototypically correct pieces. Though not so much that you become known as the nit picking rivet counter that most mrr'rs dislike. I suppose whatever floats everyones boat,BTW I think Boris's new bell may have done some structural damage in the rats patoot room or was that just you trying to escape big ben[?] ted To answer your question which Tom has already more than adequatly done. I haven't a preferance, pursee but Tom is correct photobucket is a tad more user friendly and they also don't mind you uploading whatever you want so long as it's not pornagraphic. Railimages is well for railimages. They do let you upload the occational off topic shot but they discourage alot of the aforementioned. Since it is Sunday at least here I'll be the first to add some pictures. I call this a tale of three sisters. Our museum was fortunate enough to have preserved 3 cars of the same class. All built for TTC predessesor Toronto Civic railways. All theses cars were built by Preston car and coach for the lighter Danforth ave and Gerrard street routes. There were no loops on either of these lines so the cars are double ended single truckers. 36" long so they are about as long as you would want for a single truck car. Cars 50 to 56 were all built in 1915 and a one off repeat order # 57 was built in 1917. All of these cars were handbrake cars so when TTC was formed in 1921 they were used for rush hour service only. All were converted to snow scrapers during the 20's. Two cars 53 and 57 were single ended. Converted to single pole one controller and guven air brakes. Thus renumbered W-27 and W-28. They became rail grinding cars. W-27 was further modified by lowereing it's truck and adding third rail pickups and thus became subway grinder RT-7 replacing a non self propelled sister RT-4 ( 52 ) Today 55 is at the museum converted back to full passenger format and original TCR green. we also have W-28 left it as a grinder and we have RT-7 which we use for halloween service only pictures to follow. BTW check out the driver in the seat of RT-7.

[trolleyboy]

Hi again just forgot to mention. Click on the photo's to blow them up for better detail. Let me know what you think of "George" RT-7's permanent crew member. RT-7 is fully functional as well. The only car of the three that isn't operational at the moment is # 55. A derailment twelve years ago samshed its underbody resistor grids. The replacements have to be manufactured in house. Of note car #55 is one of the two cars that started the museum in 1954. Two shots for Al as well and those who are passenger train fans. These are shots of the museum's overnight accomadations for out of town crew members.

[daveklepper]

YOu have a terrific thread going here and I hope to visit often.

[Anonymous]

Greetings Y'all from jolly old England. Since I am on expense account lets have an open bar all day on me. Boris and Tom, only the best of liquids. Break out the Roschields wine and Dom Perriom champane for all.

As you know I was scheduled to go to Port Harcourt Nigeria (UGH!) on Friday. Fortunately the natives got a little restless after a local political rabble rouser was arrested in P H and they went on a rampage occupying the oil companie's facilities. Needless to say our trip was put on hold. At my age I have lost the ability to outrun a speeding bullet so I have no problem sitting it out in London. Being in London is tough duty, but someone has to do it. I VOLUNTEER! We are scheduled to fly to P H on Tuesday if the festivitries settle down. Lets pray that they don't get it straightened out as I much rather stay in London especially when on expense account. Prices are the same here as in Dallas. A vente Starbucks coffee is the same price, however, in Dallas it is dollars and in London it is pounts. Figure the actual cost at an exchange rate of 1.85 dollars to a pound. The only way you can stay here is to be on expense account.

We arrived here (Cookie and me) Friday a week ago. As usual I went to get money from an ATM as their exchange rates are far better than the money robbers in the street kiosks. Put my card in and the machine and it said they were counting out my money. The next thing I saw was a welcome to the next customer. No money or ATM card for me. At 9 AM Dallas time I called my bank who said the charge came through, they approved it, then they got a cancell notice from this side. Fortunately I had about $200 in cash which I converted as a very bad rate ($2.05/pound) This kept me alive until the office could courier a new ATM card to me which arrived on Monday. It did work. I did not go back to a National Westminister machine based on my recent experience. I am on first name basis with the senior customer representative with Nat West, but they could not get my card back to me. A hex on them.

I apologize for not reading all of the submittals since my last visit to the bar. Internet connections cost 20 pounds per day ($38) so I am prudent on its use. I liked Passengerfan's description of his trips from Seattle to Vancouver which brought back fond memories. Several years ago, while still on the DART board we attnded the APTA convention in Seattle. One of the fun things was taking a string of Sounder bilevel cars from King Street station to Vancouver. Quite a scenic trip. When along the Puget Sound the tracks were so close to the water that you had to squash your face against the glass just to see any dirt. Otherwise it was all water. Saw some beautiful houses just across the tracks from the sound. I think i could put up with the train noise for the view. The customs agents boarded at Blaine and cleared everyone before reaching Vancouver station. Amtrak also runs the same route. They are using the Spanis Talgo cars which can take the curves faster than the bilevel Sounder equipment. Once we had to pull into a siding to let the faster Amtrak train pass. Our contractor for Trinity Railway Express, Hersog, took a select group to the Fairmont (formerly Canadian Pacific) Hotel next to the station for a lunch. Since it was raining like mad a lunch at the hotel seemed better than a shopping excursion. The woman sitting next to me was from Florida's Tri Rail board. Cookie asked me if I recognized her, which I did not. It turns out that she was the election judge who said "she would go to jail before...". You get to meet all types of people. Herzog chartered a bus to take us back to Seattle. At first I did not like this as I would miss the train ride. Unfortunately BN decided to have a minor wreck on the line and the train did not get back until 4 AM the next day. The bus, which got back at 6 PM turned out to be a good choice.

More a little later.

Cheers,
***