"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee, please - pastries, etc. look good, but I'm trying to keep after the "weight reduction" program; it's tough, but pays off in flexibility and being able to do "what has to be done" to make $. As always, a round for the house and quarters for the jukebox. Let's play some B.B. King today - it is his 80th birthday.

Our esteemed proprietor mentioned Official Guides and the wonders therein. I can't recall when I first saw one, but have managed to accumulate several 3' lomng shelves of them over the years. The big trouble is that they get brittle with age (sort of like the rest of us). Embedded in some of the old Guides you can find flying machine company schedules (for lines long gone) and steamship ads - excellent stuff! I am busy planning out a Great Lakes cruise from Buffalo to Duluth next summer (LOL)

Let's look at the Frisco some more. My first exposure to that road was during one of my periodic stints in Alabama. Here's some SLSF material from the May, 1961, ORG.

The SLSF at that time listed more than a few named trains.

Trains 3-4 "The Will Rogers"
Trains 9-10 "The Meteor"
Trains 9-709 710-10 "The Meteor"
Train 10-105 "Metwor-Kansas City-Florida Special"
Train 108-3 "Sunnyland-Will Rogers"
Trains 105-106 "Kansas City-Florida Special"
Trains 107-108 "Sunnyland"
Trains 107-3 4-108 "Sunnyland-Will Rogers"
Train 10-106 "Meteor-Kansas City-Florida Special"

As you can see, these trains combined/split en route.

Frisco sleeping car lines operated as follows:
St. Louis-Oklahoma City (14 rtte/4 db)
St. Louis-Tulsa (14/4)
St. Louis-Ft. Smith (14/4)
Oklahoma City-Springfield (14/4)
Tulsa-Springfield (14/4)
Springfield-Birmingham (14/4)
Kansas City-Jacksonville (14/4)
There was also a Springfield-Kansas City 14/4 line (it was only one way as near as I can tell; maybe some of our Frisco gurus can shed some light on that one).

The Jacksonville car operated via the Southern from B'ham east as the earlier post mentioned.

One of the more interesting tables I found was for trains 58 and 59, mixed train service between Kansas City and Clinton. This had two of the more fascinating notes I have seen in awhile. Note 1 - "Passengers will be carried in caboose between Clinton and Centropolis and intermediate points only. Note 2 "Only baggage cars are handled between Kansas City Union Station and 19th St. Yards in switcher service."

I'm ready to go right now - sounds like an adventuresome trip. We'll get Boris to ride shotgun in the cab.

Well, it's that time...see you next week.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Gents!

Pleased to see Ted and CM3 this fine end of week day ....... [tup]

Ted You're most welcome for the Fallen Flag Post on the Frisco. CM3's elaboration fits quite nicely! [tup]

BudKarr's observations are correct - as we both know - but you are soooooo correct in positing that none of that crap has a place at our bar 'n grill. If you're readin' this, BK we largely ignore the Posts of the interlopper unless and until they prove their sincerity in joining the conversation. I've checked back through the records and we've only had three visitors who fell into the category of rude .... they're gone.

CM3 Many thanx for the continuing enlightening Posts! [tup] Thanx also for the round and yet-another-roll-of-quarters! [tup] The Juke Jar is as full as it can get - we'll store this one in the safe - you know, the one with the broken door. [swg]

Drop one in the Juke for BB's The Thrill Is Gone, also Sweet Sixteen is a classic from way back too. [tup]

Can't imagine having that many of The Official Railway Guides but then again, I'm the one with all the issues of Model Railroader dating back to the mid-60's! They too are on homemade shelves in my basement trainroom - in MRR binders at that! [swg]

It's easy to get lost in time when reading those vintage ads ...... [yeah]

Boris in the cab of a speeding locomotive [?] I think I'll take the car ........

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[BudKarr]

Ok, I'll have one of those sandwiches I read about somewhere on those pages between 1 and 110 ...... And a cold brewskie - do you have any bottled Moosehead Ale?

Now - let me get this straight - if I say hello to the bartender and order a drink, I'm in good shape around here, right? Okay - Hello Bartender!

Appreciate the welcome from Tom and Ted, I don't want to wear it out too soon.

I'm enjoying the pictures of your train trips in Canada, Tom, and also the accountings of them. Worth the reading. Lots of good postings by the people who hang out in this place. I like what that guy coalminer has to say and a few others.

I have travelled by train in Canada quite a bit and know the routes failry well. Don't particularly care for some of the attitudes I have come across, but then again, seems to be a common thread these days and times. Work for the railroads and an attitude adjustment is part of the package - especially with AMTRAK. Not all - but for some. Short fuse for me - I stay as far from those types as possible - fortunate for them.

Canada travel to the maritime provinces has never been the downer that apparently one of your guys recently experienced. Then again, I think it depends on one's expectations. Trains are late and track isn't always in pristine shape. Happens. Mine is and has always to take in the flavor of it all - the ambiance - and then sit back to enjoy the ride. Just love those observation domes. The Superliner Sightseer Lounge cars are nice - but I'll take the domes everytime.

One more brew and then I'm off .......

BK

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for Pete and the gang from The Official Guide of the Railways – Aug 1956:

Missouri – Kansas – Texas Railroad (MKT – KATY Lines)

On hand reference material does not provide a detailed equipment listing, however there are some items of interest:

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Passenger trains of note: Katy Flyer – The Bluebonnet – Texas Special

Slogans: The KATY Railroad – Natural Route Southwest.

….. Only ONE COUPON is required for passage between any two points on MISSOURI – KANSAS – TEXAS LINES.

….. “Texas Special Route – Frisco – M-K-T Lines” from St. Louis to Dallas, Fort Worth, Wichita Falls, Waco, Temple, Austin, San Antonio, Houston and Intermediate points.

….. Specify Katy’s New Fast Service – 17 hours – Kansas City to Dallas - Fort Worth. Second Morning Delivery from Chicago Via C.B.&Q. – Kansas City – M.K.T.

Advertisements: Route ‘em Katy Southwest

….. On The Famous Streamlined Texas Special

Luxury sleeping car and coach accommodations, nationally famous diner meals please every taste, every budget. Friendly, attentive service in an atmosphere of restful comfort. Through sleeping cars to and from Chicago, New York, Washington and the Metropolitan East, via the St. Louis gateway.

Daily between St. Louis and San Antonio.

….. On The De Lux Texas Bluebonnet

Bedroom and Section accommodations available between Kansas City, Forth Worth, Dallas and San Antonio. Roomettes between Kansas City and Dallas; Diner-lounge car … traditionally superb Bluebonnet diner meals. Dallas and Fort Worth passengers particularly appreciate the “just right” overnight Bluebonnet schedule. You retire at your usual bedtime, arrive refreshed and rested

Short line between Kansas City and the principal cities of Texas (daily).

Famous Meals a feature of Katy Dining Car Service!

Breakfast .75 to $1.75

Luncheon $1.20 to $2.50

Dinner $1.20 to $5.50

Know Your Pullmans

All regularly assigned sleeping cars on Katy-Lines are numbered. Car 16, for example is invariably a 14 Roomette, 4 bedroom cars, operating on the Texas Special between St. Louis and Dallas. Reservations are made accordingly.

On these pages sleeping car numbers are featured for your guidance. It is a good idea to check your reservations to be sure your space has been properly assigned.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

A pint of Bathams bitter and as my prize the empty Bathams XXX keg please. The fumes from the XXX are strong enough at the minute .I dont suppose there is any Shoulder of Lamb left[?].

Thanks for the KATY info it is hard to imagine the expresses on what is now the Katy trail I have been to Rocheport and been through the short tunnel there. Nearby there is a KTY logo chiseled in to a rock.

In the K.C STAR PREVIEW there is an advert for next weekend at Union Station's Big Train Weekend it says that Milwaukee #261 1940's steam loco will be there for next weekend only.

Did anyone see the History Channel some time last week. I only caught the tail end but divers had found two locomotives on the sea-bed just south of New York harbor. They were of the 2-2-0. type and they think that they were built in Boston about 1855. Did anyone else catch the programme[?].

May I get a round in and [#welcome] BudKarr. PETE

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

Nice to see a bit of activity 'round here and methinks the Fallen Flags are helping ....... [tup]

BudKarr Interesting that you should have such strong sentiments regarding the attitudes on the part of some who work the passenger roads ...... VIA Rail people, for the most part, have been heads 'n shoulders over their Amtrak counterparts. But, rude is rude and when a cash paying customer is on the receiving end of it - there's simply no excuse. Have you made the trek up to Churchill[?] That's a trip I'd dearly love to make - I call it the Flannel Shirt Express. Would be loads of fun with a couple of guys who are into staying up late, drinking, story tellling 'n listening and just plain BS aboard a train. Now THAT's the way an "Our" Place Rendezvous should take place. [yeah][wow] I know - wishful thinking on my part ....

Happy to see you again and appreciate your interest in us! [tup]

Pete DMI (don't mention it) regarding the MKT - KATY Post .... glad you enjoyed it! Oh [yeah], help yourself to the keg - if nothing else, they are great conversation starters especially if inconspicuoulsy [?] placed in ones living room! [swg]

Are you referring to the weekend of Sep 26th-27th for KCity [?] I know we're going to get together for an Amtrak trip ... just a matter of scheduling. Saturday would work for me, but we must keep in mind that the turn around may not afford us the time needed to view the loco. It's the chance we'd take ...... Also want to send an Email to you and Gunns regarding the trip to see the trains in Kansas. Kevin indicated he'll be working the weekend of Oct 1st & 2nd ... that may work for us, but later would be better.

That History Channel program you referred to has been aired before - I believe it was one of the Deep Sea Detectives series - we viewed it about a year ago - fascinating stuff. Really captivated my interests with regard to the way they went about tracing the origins of those sunken and deteriorating locos.

Ring the bell Boris, the round is on Pete! [tup]

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom. I think I'll grab a nicelong island ice tea and some of chef nick's leftover lamb that I missed from yesterday evening.[:(] I rather lenghty T-storm kept us battened down[tdn][:(!] Tom You may count on me to continue to drop my posts in the late evening or on the occational daylight period such as now. Mind you I'll be scrace sat and sunday as I'm off to a family wedding in Kingston. Not to worry it will be a working trip as well because I'll be checking out the rail sights there for next may.[;)] Your suspicion was correct,I hadn't checked the appropriate box on the photobucket account. [#wstupid]you should now be able to view the pictures therein. Once this post is done I shall be away to enjoy my train trip[tup][:p][yeah] I'm looking forward to it. I'm still enjoying the continuing fallen flagg series. I may concoct a few Canadain ones for you folks in the next while.I need to consuly my train book library first however. If anyone has any Canadian fallen flag wishes let me know.[:)] BK a hearty welcome to you as well, hope to chat with you more as we go forward ! Ted That ebay aquisition went well should arrive shortly then the scratch building shall begin in earnest. May I put forward another possible for your ugly duckling contest. The Kraus Maffie deisel hydrolics that SP and Rio Grande sampled for a while.Can you say econobox? Gunns I never would have guessed that as the location of that photo. I thought it was a person looking out of a friebox on one of your locomotives!pwolfe Your welcome on the sub info, I found it interesting as to how much heavy duty naval firepower was purchased buy Chile , Brazil and Argentina over the years. Most of it never fired any shots. CM3 Wnderfull info as always. In the vein of a several page back now discussion. I came accross a reference to a pair of McKeen cars bought for a Canadian railway. Two cars were ordered from Mckeen in 1914 for the Alberta and Great Waterways Railway. Retired in 1929 due to the poor reliability of the transmissions, ( no supprise there ). This tidbit came from the Streak of Lighteneing book I had mentioned before. Personally I never have heard of the purchasing railway but there it was, the mention of two Candain McKeen cars. No numbers or names for the cars were given however.Well gentlemen and Boris so long for now. Rob

[nickinwestwales]

Well evenin` fella`s,hows everybody doing ?...Ah-[4:-)]TOM,a steady stream of cold ones for me please my friend,and the same for yourself and the gentlemen,BUDD-[#welcome],pull up a perch and have a beer with us. [4:-)]TOM-E-Mail on your desk with long-promised T.E.E train shots-found the site by accident on a related-links pge,not sure of address,but I think its on the University of Wyoming server,-found a link to another site which may be of general interest ...Budd-RDC.org-seems fairly comprehensive,hope its of interest CM3-good call on the tunes my man-can listen to the King stroke "Lucille" all night long [^] GUNNS-thanks for explanation of pic ! MANAGER TED-The clarion call of the huntsmans horn not heard in these parts since the ministry of fun banned hunting with hounds last year,to the disgust of those members of British society sufficiently inbred to consider watching a pack of dogs tear a fox to pieces "sporting"-as you can tell,I`m still undecided on that one.........[:-^]......Well,a pleasant surprise this P.M-popped into town for a break from carrying fenceposts,hitting same with 8-lb sledge etc,stopped off to see if my copy of M.R is likely to turn up before the next one is published only to find a copy of the `1950`s` special in my folder,beamed down from lord knows where,a most interesting read-can see the attraction of the era,not only as a time of great social change,but also as the period most movies seemed to depict when I was growing up in the `60`s,good stuff-Right I`m off to prepare my camping gear for my prize-winning weekend away with the beast of the Carpathians & Herman Munsters ugly cousin...............Gee guys,you shouldn`t have-you Really Really shouldn`t have......Later,all,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

That time of day when we startin' to gear up for the evenin' ... Pizza Nite and steak 'n fries for our normal Friday bill of fare. Expect the pool room to be busy as the tournament amongst the track gang starts ..... Should be quite the event. You may recall that Contest some time ago when no one was able to lift one of the pool tables - free hand - and only later did I discover that Boris somehow managed to nail one of the ends fast to the deck (floor!). Well, one of the track gang mugs actually pulled the nails out - one by one with his teeth. It's going to be that kinda night! [swg]

Rob Was wondering what happened to you last night ... glad you've made it in. Glad your photobucket album is up 'n running ... no charge for the tip! [swg]

Regarding the Fallen Flags series I've Posted, there are some Canadian RR's in the mill .... wouldn't and couldn't forget our northern cousins [tup]

I sent you an Email this afternoon ....... Enjoy your weekend get-away. [tup]

Nick [C=:-)] Your pix have been received and uploaded to Nick's Pix photo album. Thanx for those ONR shots - they turned out great! Good clarity.

Okay guys: check out Nick's album on my site, 7 new pix added today:

http://photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/Nicks%20pix/

Just curious, the Oct issue of MRR is out - received mine over a week ago. About how far behind are you in receiving those [?] Only thing I received regarding the 1950's special were the promotional stuff .. didn't order it. I have so many issues from the mid-60's to present date (all in MRR binders, of course!) that to add any more is simply an over kill ... if I want to see those pikes - I'm sure they're in the issues I've got. It never ends ...... One day we'll be able to buy these decades worth of MRR's on CD's. That's the way to do it .

Enjoy your weekend - although from the description you gave, perhaps you should fortify yourself before settlilng down at the camp site! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

LEGAL DISCLAIMER The shots Tom Mentioned are NOT mine -I copied them across from the O.N.R site -They are the property of Bob Boudreau,a coffee shop regular if memory serves-not sure of legal status of images in public domain,but just to be on the safe side........ta,nick

[nickinwestwales]

O.K. Guys,If I`ve got this right,We should be about ready for tonights star turn,for One Night Only ( drum roll please Charlie....) The Lovely CINDY.....................[4:-)]TOM-you dont know what you`ve let loose here-Nice job on the pix by the way [tup][^] -apologies for smoke from kitchen-Boris set light to himself in a related incident,back after clean-up,nick

[nickinwestwales]

Right,thats that out of my system-[4:-)]TOM-keep`em coming my man and join me yourself,I think the change in the seasons is affecting Boris-he doesn`t even play with his latex lovely any more,I`m beginning to worry...-glad you liked O.N.R. shots-will try and find some pix in the red & cream livery they had in Europe-rather more elegant than the Northland colours to my mind. Layout progress slow of late,discovering that the cosy little nest of freight spurs I had designated as "Rutherford Yard" for want of hard info is in fact Mac Yard-a major facility with an acreage greater than the nearby International Airport caused a slight gathering of breath-however,onwards and upwards.......Have put in some basic ground cover around the area and dealt with most of the inset street trackage--begin to suspect that once fine detail starts to go in area will look somewhere between busy & overcrowded-could be a case of less is more,am taking pix as I go,so should be able to present evidence for critique & debate-What progress with the `S`capades of late ?-Are services on the Can-Am restored to former levels--off to take a few layout pix whilst the mood is upon me,back soon nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Hello Nick [C=:-)]

[yeah][wow] You've arrived - congrats on figuring out the mystic secrets of posting smilies from other sources (MSOPSFOS)! [swg]

By the by, the lovely Cindy has auborn hair - HOWEVER - she has many wigs that she uses in her Victoria's Secret lingerie shows ....... [:-,][}:)]

Boris may have encountered a bit of latex intolerance .... ingesting that stuff can be hazardous to one's health! [:O]

Work on the S-gauge (S capades) has ground to a temporary halt. No particular reason - just took a break from it. Too much of one thing ... kinda like this obsession of ours! [;)] Looking forward to seeing what you've put together .... not so much for critique purposes, but simply curiousity. One thing about my take on the hobby has to do with adhering to the belief that one's creation is essentially in the eye of the beholder. If it pleases YOU, that's fine with me! I'm hardly that tolerant in real life, by the by! [swg]

Oh I almost forgot, this young lady says that you were supposed to meet her here ... Hmmmmmmmm! Somethning we should know [?] Do you require the keys to the Penthouse Suite [?] [;)][:-,]

Catch ya later and thanx for the drink(s)! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. Tom, one of those strong "house beers" I had yesterday. Appreciate the Katy info. Liked that road almost as much as Frisco. Toured their yard and shop with the Katy Historical Society back about 79 or 80. Looked at my negatives since then and discovered I had several action pix of the Katy loco that I now operate--small world or what??? Let me know, Tom, or anyone else who wants to visit the Midland. This weekend we will be there and next time is Oct 1&2. I sure like to read about the Frisco, guys. I was born too late to do much on the passenger trains before the end but I have one memory and a vivid imagination of what life was like.
Welcome Budkarr. It appears that you will fit in quite well. I like to ride trains too but have more fun operating them.
Today I done something totally different. I have been interested in steam power for years but except for a brief period when I was about 14 or so when I fired a woodburner haven't been around them. Went to the local steam engine show today to find out some info about a steam school soon and was put to work firing a 1907 traction engine! Later, during the parade of engines past the bleachers I was steering the obstinate beast. It takes about 5 or 6 turns of the steering wheel before the front wheels begin to move. Turning the wheel reminds me of when I first started to drive truck--when I had to stand up to turn the wheel. The steam engine was much, much harder to steer!!! Not really classic trains but steam nonetheless!!!

[nickinwestwales]

Thats no lady,thats my wife............

[Gunns]

Evening Ya'll,
coffee and a sammich.

As for the midwesrern tour, I am crewing for the Germans at the AIBF http://www.balloonfiesta.com/ but woul really like to get together later. Also we are having an open house for two days in Oct.


Open House
October 15 and 16 at the site from 10-4 each day
free hot dogs and drinks, live entertainment, education committee functions for the kids...blow the whistle, ring the bell and sit in the engineer's seat...and buy one of our fabulous new T-shirts !
Bring your camera

directions on the club site

later
Gunns

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Guys,

Looks like I've got a few responses to make ... checked out a bit early last night. Watched a classic movie on DVD - "The High and the Mighty" with John Wayne. Nice musical score - hoaky acting - but when put in perspective a good "oldie."

earlydiesels Dan Regarding the Oct 1st weekend - it's a "maybe" at this point. What other weekends are you working in Oct [?] If you don't have the schedule right now, don't worry about it.

Glad you are enjoying my Fallen Flags - that's what they were intended to do - project one's mind to the days and times of those great Classic Trains! [yeah][wow][tup]

Nick Are you SURE that you're the ONLY one reading these threads at your house [?] [swg]

Gunns Kevin My guess is that if you are to meet up with the gang from this bar, it will have to be somewhere between where you are and where I am - that would put us in the Kansas City area ...... We've got (or had) a failry good representation from Missouri/Kansas so maybe the Midland would be a smart location for a mini-Rendezvous for "Our" Place. With Pete - Dan and me, this could work out. Add in you and maybe barndad Doug and Trainnut484 Russell[?][?][?], and we'd have a good representation ....... just a thought.

Okay - I've gotta get the SUMMARY out .... before we drop completely outta sight! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

SATURDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Morning All! A fine weekend day ‘round these parts – comfortable temps and dry conditions after our two days of Monsoon-like rains. Ahhhhhh – the end of the grass growing season approaches! [yeah][wow][tup]

A comment: My thanx to those of you who answered the call for HELP to ensure that we maintain a degree of frequency with the Postings. While it may be premature, it does appear as if those of you who said you would – are! THANX! [tup][tup][tup]

News of the Day:

(1) Check out the Fallen Flags Posts on pages 106, 108, 109 and 110. The roads covered are: SP – MoPac – WP - Frisco and MKT.

(2) Reminder: We’re CLOSED on SUNDAY’s.

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo (Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 00:53:28 (110) Friday’s News & Summary

(2) BudKarr Bud Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 01:50:16 (110 First post & visit

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 07:26:56 (110) reply to BudKarr

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 07:45:09 (110)

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 08:13:02 (110) FRISCO info

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 09:13:49 (110) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(7) BudKarr Bud Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 11:56:19 (110)

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 12:00:44 (110) Fallen Flag – MKT

(9) pwolfe Pete Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 13:22:32 (110)

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 13:59:31 (110) reply to BudKarr & pwolfe

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 15:27:47 (110)

(12) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 16:07:37 (110)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 17:00:41 (110) reply to trolleyboy & nickinwestwales

(14) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 17:46: (110)

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 18:15:29 {110)

(16)) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 18:46:56 (111)

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 19:52:53 (111) reply to nickinwestwales

(18) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 20:06:45 (111)

(19) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 20:10:02 (111)

(20) Gunns Kevin Posted: 16 Sep 2005, 23:28:43 (111)

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 17 Sep 2005, 09:00:30 (111) reply to earlydiesels – nickinwestwales – Gunns

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]
Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Tom, maybe just a draught of Iron City and something for yourself. I'm enjoying the latest pix on offer.[^] I can only add a tiny vingette to the ongoing Katy dialogue. I rode a Local (milk train) on that Line from Tulsa to Pawnee, OK. I must've been about 6 (maybe 7) years old, thus the memory is vague at best. I do recall it was steam powered and a pretty rough ride. When we arrived at Pawnee Station, there was a horrific stench of fresh silage wafting through the air.[V] Soon thereafter, I developed styes on both eyes and could scarcely see at all (allergies). My Grandfather owned a prosperous farm near Maramac, OK and there was a derilict old steam tractor in the coach shed. As a Lad, I really enjoyed climbing over the beast, turning the valves and stoaker but didn't have the strength to move the huge all steel spoked wheels. On the return leg, I had as company, a baby Bunny in a wooden cheese box (ventilated) with ample lettuce for the 4 hour return trek. Knowing that pets were not allowed, I did my best to secret the box from view of the Conductor as he made his obligatory rounds through the aisles of the coaches.[8D] I thought I was a pretty cool operator, as if some arch villain in a *** Tracy comic strip. As we detrained in Tulsa, the elderly Conductor casually said (with a knowing grin), "What's the Bunny's name?"[swg] From that encounter on, train Conductors were my heroes.[tup]

Nick, the pix are great and the streamline diesel frames tell a "theater (theatre) of the mind" story. "Two Foot Guage?" That would be hardly more than a Garden Rwy, right?[#oops] Rob, have a safe camping adventure. I understand Boris and Leon are in the woods this weekend. They are being chaperoned but still "at large" so to speak.[:O] Welcome again Budkarr, its always a pleasure to greet new arrivals who enjoy a little whimsy along with the "nuts and bolts" of Classic Trains at "Our" Place.[tup] I think the site will "fit like an old shoe" in no time at all.[:D] CM 3, like you, there will always be a "soft spot" for the MKT and Frisco among my recollections. I rode the St. L. & S.F. from Tulsa to St. Louis and thence the Pennsy to Penn Station in 1956. I thought the train would never clear the wye backing in at St. Louis. It was such a serpentine movement, I darned near "lost my cookies" to motion sickness. Oh, as I recall, the train was headed by 3 EMD E-7 units (A-B-A). The coaches were a mix of smooth and fluted sides with a couple of "ghost striped" standards for R.P.O. and baggage. There was a long wait in Springfield, MO but not enough time for seeing many sights. In fact, I think I was having lunch in the Dinning Car at that stop.[dinner] I do remember the food was excellent: open face hot turkey sandwich w/trimmings.[^] What a change in "attitude" of the Crew from Frisco to Pennsy.[V]

Okay, I must trim the "Flame-in-the-Woods" shrubs, hedge and Azaleas before the City Fathers serve notice for breaking the "neighborhood covens."[:(!] Maybe a quick pass with the palm sander and Scotch Brite over the G scale R-O-W as well. That's right, its brass rail and the FL. climate (wet) plays havoc on brass. Boris, yank the clapper on old "99,s" bell, if you will. BOINK! What is it this time Boris?, your dirigible dolly deflated again?[xx(] Happy rails all.

[Anonymous]

CORRECTION Sorry, I referred to CM 3 and should have typed Earlydiesels Dan. Theodorebear.

[siberianmo]

Top o' the mornin' to ya, Ted me boy! [swg]

Just time enough for a couple of words before the Saturday chores get attended to .....

Nice accounting of that trip from your childhood! I too crawled all over old farm equipment (tractors, etc.) during summers at my God-parents relatives farm in a place called Mount Holly, New Jersey. Back in those days, that was strictly rural and farm country - dirt roads, et al. It was a fun place for a kid and it would seem that each summer I'd be there, the County Fair would going on in town. The three of us kids (me and the two who lived there) piled into the back of the pickup - loaded with hay - and off we'd go. Always had a great time. The train used to run right through the center of town and if we'd time it right, there would be a Puffing Billy making it's way to the Depot. Loved it! Simply loved it!
There are times when I just wi***hat time could be made to stand still .... but then again, the 40's weren't really all that great - just snippets here and there! Reality strikes again! [swg]

By the by, what was the name of your Bunny and what of its fate [?]

So, it appears that the Fallen Flags series is making a dent ... good deal! That's the idea, after all. [tup][tup][tup] If I do say so myself ........ Classic Trains Rule! [yeah]

By the by, Boris 'n Leon will in fact be runnin' amok up at Can-Am Gorge tomorrow. Campers and wildlife beware! Actually, that area is far too rugged for campers - believe me - lots of places for the denizons of the forests and caves to lurk in the shadows. Or should I say, hide from the Boyz [?] [swg]

Okay, okay - my turn to run things around here. Which shall it be - vacuum cleaner or ....... [?] Oh the bliss of retired life! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

Morning Tom and the gang...WOW, 111 pages and counting! Our Place has come of age indeed! Coffee and fresh blueberry muffins if you could be so kind.

Just catching up on the events going on, as for myself I have some property in NE Nevada that i've been attending two for the past couple of weeks, far away from the hustle and bustle of LA.

The Union Pacifc is about the only activity in town these days a far cry from my first visit in 1981 when Montello had a intact water tank and and SP standard station. UP replaced the depot with a doublewide and the city removed the tank when they contracted for county water. As in SP days, M of W and relief personal are maintained to monitor the causeway across the the Great Salt Lake and to staff helpers headed west over the Pequops. In a historical note, the orginal 1869 CP alignment to Promotory Point, abandoned in 1942 deverged at Lucin, 3 miles from my property.

Tom... Great job on the fallen flags. To all, keep the good stuff coming....

Well, let me do some more catching up, Boris, knock it off, this is a civilized establishment! No slobbering on the patrons, no matter how happy you are!

Until later

Dave [tup]

[siberianmo]

[#welcome] Back, West Coast S Dave! [yeah]

Glad you're back with us ....... Help yourself to the breakfast stuff, right over there, next to the coffee urns.

I trust you are well rested and ready to tackle the rigors of the workplace and life in the big city once again. Once that first day back at the grind gets into full swing, it was always as if I had never left ....... [tdn]

Glad you appreciate those Fallen Flags - that's the idea!

We've had a bit of a change 'round here with a couple of guys no longer seen as regulars along with a dip in Postings. Along came coalminer3 CM3 with some pretty insightful stuff and the Fallen Flags idea followed. I want to temper the frequency of those submissions, just to ensure that we don't suffer a burn out effect.

We seem to be back up to speed now, as a few guys have answered the bell and picked up the slack in your absence and those of passengerfan Al and wrwatkins ***. The latter two will return ..... but until then, I've requested that our more dependable guys try to pick a time slot to make at least one Post, just to keep us up 'n runnin' on the Forum. 6 AM to Noon - Noon to 6 PM and 6 PM to midnight. I'm also trying to be a bit more aware of my response times - kinda saving 'em up just to keep us at the top of the page, so to speak. Of course there are exceptions ... but if you detect some changes, that's the story.

Maybe we should consider a weekend blast at your place in Nevada - guys only, of course. I can just imagine the train talk - card games - a bit of imbibing and whatever follows ...... [swg]

Catch ya later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

P.S. I saw you lurking in the shadows, pwolfe Pete Bashful [?] You have Email

[West Coast S]

Hello, once again Tom and the gang. I negelected to acknowledge the patron who forwarded the subject of SP Alco freight power. Round for the house if you please.

The SP had a love, hate relationship with the American Locomotive Works. The Alco PA was chosen over comparable EMD offerings due to the GE supplied traction motors, dynamic brakes and the power plant being turbocharged, this combination was able to handle the tough Donner Pass and Shasta routes. Eventually 76 would be purchased, SP thought well enough of them to rebuild and upgrade the entire fleet in the early to mid 60s, unlike some roads they were never downgraded to freight service, all would be gone by 1967.

Alco days were not done yet, SP that year aquired examples of the C-628 and later the C-630. By this date, the SD45 was the engine that GE and Alco had to chase, massive SD45 purchases quickly made these the dominate power on the system. The SD45 had one major fault, a need for lots of fuel. SP turned to Alco in a attempt to match the reliability of the SD45 but with increased fuel savings.

The C- 628/630 delivered the promised fuel economy, but could not deliver on the reliability. It was discovered too late that they did not perform well in heavy, high speed service, changes made to the 251 engine and aluminum wiring resulted in blown cylinders, turbochargers and fires.

Still, SP persisted in finding suitable employment and in those great GE traction motors laid the answer, they could substain extended low speed operation and it was noted that several had been assigned to helper and other secondary service duty throughout the system with no failures recorded. The decision was made to rebuild them for humpyard and transfer service between West Colton and Taylor. They performed admiribly along side newer power until the early 80s when all Alco power was set aside.

Eugene OR, was the second bastion of Alco power on the SP in the 70s, The only RSD15s (3 total) purchased by the SP were assigned to the hump and four axle examples such as the RS11 and switchers retreated north as emissions became an issue in California and Texas.

SP was rebuilding Alco power as late as 1979 when several RS11s were upgraded after being vacated and reassigned from the Cotton Belt. Upon rebuilding they were scattered from Eugene to LA until the requirement to confine them the to select maintaince shops virtually demoted them to captive serivice, thus negating any potential which resulted in periods on the deadline until disposed of.

Dave[tup]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

I was just about to call in the bar when the wife caught and made me do a chore.
Anyway I think I have earned a pint of Bathams now.

The Fallen Flags have really set off some great personal memories of travel in the days of the Classic Trains. A round for all please[tup].

I see on the atlas that there was a Chicago & Alton (laterGulf Mobile & Ohio) Railroad which ran through Futon M.O. and connected to the KATY at North Jefferson across the river from Jefferson City. I guess this line closed some time ago[?]. Looking at the lie of the land it must have been quite a hilly route.

In a recent Railway Mag.from Britain there is an article on Britain only SHAY engine it worked at an ironworks in BILSTON in the West Midlands some time between 1900 and 1912. They say it was a Class B type with three cylinders and two trucks.Only one known photo exists and the mag. was asking if anyone knew of any information on this particular loco.Any ideas[?].

I hope Nick survives the camping trip PETE.

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

Just a couple of responses before I check out for the day - Cindy will work the rest of the day 'n evening ........ I may or may not be back for closing. Saturday night and things to do! [swg]

West Coast S Dave That reference you made regarding the SP Alco's may be attributed to coalminer3 CM3 on page 106. As always, you surely come up with some detailed scoop! [tup]

I see you're paying the price for being away! [swg] Catching up is lotsafun, eh [?] I hope the SUMMARIES are of some help ........

pwolfe Pete Although I don't have any, the railroad maps of the U.S., back in the halcyon days, had tracks just about everywhere one looked. Given that we didn't have the highway system we all take for granted today, rail was King, no doubt about it. There will never be a return to the extent we once witnessed. Oh, we'll see some degree of increased freight shipments (given that the mega-carriers can find the capacity), but I'll put my money on alternative fuel sources for vechicular power. Rail rights-of-way have pretty much dwindled down to a precious few and they are indeed saturated. Reality hits home again! [tdn]

Perhaps Nick will address your question ....... [tup]

Catch ya later - and oh yes, check your Email

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

Afternoon all... Tom and Pwolf. Round of the best draught available

Trivia regarding the Chicago & Alton.

It was the first US railroad to fully dieselize, in 1947 and was also the first to abandon the traditional Pullman Green for it's passenger fleet, introducing a striking multi-hued maroon scheme as standard around 1927, noteable steam passenger power also wore the maroon colors, predating the later concept of matched power and consits by a number of years. It also suffered the fate of being one of the first roads merged out of exsitence in the post WWII period, merged into the GM&O around 1949. GM&O later adopted the Maroon concept when it went shopping for diesels, thus a fragment of the C&A tradition continued on.

Regarding oddball SP power, The U25B stunned the railway community when introduced in 1959. Most stunned of all was EMD. EMD lost the horsepower race and thus a oppertunity for a substantial order in a attempt to satisfy a SP edict that all future purchases most posses a minium 2500HP per a single unit. EMD in it's haste to say competitive pushed the tried and true 567 to the limit and many roads suffered crankshaft failure with the turbocharged SD24. SP considered and rejected the SD24 as a contender for future purchases.

The undisputed masters of heavy service were the products of the Baldwin Locomotive Works. AS616s in various configurations were the staple of the lumber feeders in Oregon and Northern California and doubled as road helpers and local power when needed.

Hump yards around the system were also home with VO1000, S12s sharing in the duties. AS616s dieselized the Pacific Electric freight operations. Tragedy also took a toll, SP lost a cow-calf set when they failed to heed a open drawbridge, a second set was lost due to a hump yard mishap, additional orders were submitted to Baldwin to replace the lost units displaying SPs firm commitment to Baldwin.

By the mid 60s the era of the Baldwin roadswitcher was over, they languished in storage for many years thereafter awaiting buyers or the scrappers torch. The VO1000s were the next to go, happily, the S12s had a few good years left with
retirements begining in the early 70s. A large percentage of retired Baldwins were sold for continued use with other operators, a few continue in service yet today.

Dave [tup]

[Anonymous]

Damm and blast, I just "blew it" on one of my better Posts. Tom, I was going to have an Iron City but now, please make it a double Crown and a splash of Angostura bitters. Glad to see WestCoast S "Back in the Saddle Again" (Gene Autry's Theme). Good information on the Espee again Dave. Hope your leave was refreshing, possily some pix? Okay Tom, the Bunny's name was "Baby Snooks" after a popular comedic radio show which I think was titled "The Great Gildersleeve" but am not too sure. The fate of "Snooks" was unfortuante. My Mother's Father visited us in K.C. and poor "Snooks" zigged when he (gender?) should've zagged. Poppa was a retired professional baseball player and his foot wear was about the size of snow shoes. He weighed in around 200 + lbs.; need I say more? At age 6 or 7, I couldn't be quieted until assurances came that "Snooks" went to Bunny Heaven. All was forgiven and the funerary grave site (back yard) was attended with solemn prayers from my Sister and me.

I had written some on the "Millionaires' Rails" documantary aired by The Travel Channel yesterday but since I was so unceremoniously booted-off, I'll delay this for another post later...still P.O.ed! Okay, allow me to make an unusually hasty retreat via the "Rat's Patoot Room" until we meet again, sayanora for now.

[siberianmo]

G'day (again) Guys!

Just a quick note before we depart for the theatre - last of the summer series at a great venue in Kirkwood, MO called Stages. All musicals - been going for 14 years. Anyway ...

Dave You picked up quite nicely on that Chicago & Alton reference by Pete! [tup] Saturday's are not the best for in depth Postings, so I've withheld my Fallen Flag 'til either tomorrow afternoon or Monday AM. Want it to have a fighting chance of being read. [yeah] Some guys just pick up on the page they are on and don't take the time to scroll back .....

Ted I think I've made this recommendation to Nick - but perhaps it will also help you: prepare your Posts on a word processor program. When done, copy it to the thread. Should anything get "lost" on the thread - you'll still have it on the WP program. Work's for me ......

Sad ending for "Snooks" - at the age you were at, I'm sure that was traumatic indeed. Went through "funerals" for turtles and the like with my 3 kids along with the sadness of having to have our pet dog's put to sleep. Difficult at best, but all part of life's experiences, eh [?]

So, you remember Throckmorton P. Gildersleeve, eh [?] Well, you are just a tad younger than I - but that puts us in the right era for evening radio programs in the parlo(u)r! [swg] By the by, who did your Dad play baseball with [?] My deceased father-in-laws was with the Reds back in the 30's.

Gotta run - time to take in "Hello Dolly!" Seen iterations of it a few times - but always enjoy the music and subtle changes in the way the play progresses ....

Remember, be kind to Cindy and she'll reward you! [}:)][:-,] If not, Leon the Night Man will clean your clocks! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Good evening Tom and everyone [:)] Cindy, I'll have one of the finest brews from the tap, Thanks.

For those of you who are coming to the KC Rails Expo next weekend Sept 23-25 here at Union Station, here's a taste of what you'll see:

Canadian National "Metis"


Pullman "Skykomis River"


KCS F9 (Don't know why it's between the cars. They may switch it around later)


Milwaukee Road nbr 170


...and GN "Empire Builder 1292"


Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 261 will also be on display

Now, in honor of those who have served, and are serving, our country:
WW1 Memorial (across from Union Station)


Walk of Honor to the memorial


Honorable statement at base of tower


Below the Honorable statement on tower


Another cold one please, thanks again.

Russell