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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:39 PM
Good evening Tom and friends! I'll take the usual bottomless draught and buy a round for the house. Looks like lots of great information today on all sorts of subjects, and I will be back to read everything thoroughly, and respond appropriately, but please allow me to make a quick post, as we have to be off to TaeKwonDo .. so please keep the beer cold, and the vittles hot until I return!

In 1957 this beautiful passenger set was introduced in legendary Lionel “Super O”. It soon proved to be extremely popular, boasting many Lionel breakthrough features such as diesel horn sounds and Magne-Traction. Now the Canadian Pacific Luxury Liner is back! Available for limited time only – hurry to your Lionel dealer! $1,300


Originally offered in 1954, the Lackawanna Trainmaster was touted as real, top-level railroading! Boasting features like Dual Pullmor power, Magne-Traction and a diesel horn, this power giant was a Herculean puller. It’s now back, better than ever! $600


Three of our favorite Postwar era items. 1953 Executive Inspection Car ($130), 1955 Bay Window Caboose ($80) & the 1954 Barrel Car ($60) are back!


The new Have Freight set – most wanted cars in railroading. Originally offered in 1956, this exciting freight set will make a great addition to your new Haven EP-5. This set is loaded with some of our all-time most requested themes. $350



The Seaboard Freight Set – In 1951 this freight set debuted as part of an awesome work train. Now you can add these classic Lionel freight cars to your Seaboard Switcher. $300



[:I] Man Gives Up On Women
June 27, 2006 - Atlanta, USA
Atlanta native auto mechanic Michael Ross publicly declares that he has given up the life long struggle to figure out what women really want. This came after a recently published report estimating American corporations had spent over $1 billion dollars in 2005 to determine what want women want from their products and marketing, and had largely failed. "If combining rooms full of highly skilled experts and truckloads of money can't figure these women out, how on earth is the typical blue collar man with $28,000 after tax dollars a year supposed to?" said Mr. Ross during an interview with Atlanta news reporters. "It may be that these women themselves have no idea what they are looking for or what will win them over. Many admit to having the exact same qualities in one man be endearing, while in another, off-putting." Mr. Ross's web site has generated over 32,000 letters of support from other men in its guest book since his announcement earlier in the day. [:I]
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:57 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house. Well have been digesting our new budget that passed last night first on time state budget in I believe 18 years and this an election year at that.

Lots of money for highway repair and expansion and believe it or not $13 million to start acquiring right of way down the Central Valley for the High Speed Rail Service. I don't think thirteen Million will buy much right of way even in the Central Valley but at least it kept High Speed Rail alive in the state where it's needed most. They are still undecided whether it will operate on steel rails or whether it will be Magnetic levitation. Either way one propsal is that it will have its own electrical source in place when it is built combining Energy and transportation dollars together. This will be the first positive step as to actual route.

TTFN Al
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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:34 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round please. I will try the Fish,N,Chips later.

I am still catching up with the posts I missed while away.Gentlemen they are really great posts I am up to Page 353 and I will be posting more when I am up to date.

I managed to leave the roll of film in the UK but my mate has sent it and I will get it put on disc so I can show them.

Congrats MIKE on your Reserved stool and I,m glad you had a great time in Alaska TOM.

Thanks ALL for the posts it is well worthwhile to read them all. PETE.
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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:16 PM
Tom, ouch, a fellow can't catch a break!! Ok I've got lunch covered for the next five hours, that should make Till 'n cashinator pleased, kkk-ching!!!

I've been of the opinion that the S2 failed due the inception of the diesel, Pennsy truly had a gifted engineering staff. I've read that fuel consumption was to biggest drawback to a sucessfull design.

Tom, that's the monster, for such a one off, amazed so much has been published on it..

Lovedomes, UP operated several classes of turbins, they began arriving in 1951, GE had a demo the #51 operating in 1948, UP took a liking to it, but did not need a cab on both ends, UP ordered a dozen and specified that unused cab space be used for fuel storage, the outside walkways gave name to this class as Veranda's additionaly they had the ability to live on a grade of diesel fuel aproaching crude oil, very cheap in those days.

Noise was the overall objection and the necessity to shut the plant down when not in operation, UP/GE installed 300hp diesel engines for standby power and oil line heaters,, thus elimating the many oppertunitys to surprise those unaware of of the finer points of turning over a dead cold turbine with the resulting explosion when not done correctly or in proper sequence.
They possed a BB+BB wheel araignment, thus they tracked and rode very well, continual upgrades netted 5000 to 6000hp. Early on auxliary fuel tenders were provided and connections for operation with diesels was provided for. On districts with tunnels, it was forbidden to double head these untis, the lead unit would consume all the available oxygen and starve the second, second reason being a single unti was capable of hauling the standard tonnage of the time and could do so with authority.

The next group arrived from GE in 1959, they were light years ahead of the Verandas, most of which had been returned to GE for parts salvage and inclusion into the new design, with a CC wheel araignment and 7000hp on tap in a massive three unit set, over fifty were delivered by 1962, these proved extremely reliable and could operate in MU with any diesel in the fleet or each other and served until 1971, some remained in storage into 1973.


Well that about sums the UP turbine history, time to go back into hiding, where's my hat?? BORIS, BORIS....

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:08 PM
Good afternoon Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

Make that 2 rounds for the house if Dave is buying. As soon as I said "technical" he went for the turbine. I've heard of turbine. Couldn't define it offhand, but probably could guess it on a multiple choice quiz.

It is good news indeed if John is in the area. Hope to see him stop in soon.

For a change of pace, let's skip the urls today because I've done some typing. This year is the 150th anniversary of the first railroad bridge across the Mississippi at Davenport, a fact which induced me to search for a picture of it. In the process I found an old Railroad Magazine for sale on ebay, which astoundingly mentioned my great-uncle Dan in the table of contents, so right there I had to register with ebay, etc., and make my first and so far only purchase of anything online. From that is this:

Street Railway and Interurban Listing (Railroad Magazine, January 1948)

With the many changes now taking place in the field of local electric railways, including abandonment of several lines, a new and revised list of operating lines is in order.

Since our last complete listing in the December, 1945 issue of Railroad Magazine, three more states have added themselves to the five that were then without railway lines. These are Idaho, which saw the end of interurban service on its Utah-Idaho Central line on February 15, 1947; Mississippi, whose electric freight line, Gulfport & Mississippi Coast has been Dieselized; and Tennessee, where Knoxville Transit ran the last streetcar in the Volunteer State on last August 1st. The five states which were without electric railways at the time of our 1945 list, were Delaware, Nevada, New Mexico, South Dakota and Wyoming.

There are additional abandonments in progress on other lines, but we have tried to keep the list of roads and their trackage as exact as is possible under present changing conditions. If mileages appear slightly in error, it is the result of approximation. Those electrics which give freight service only are indicated by an (F) following the name of the place where they operate.

UNITED STATES

Alabama
Birmingham Elec. Co., Birmingham, 120

Arizona
Phoenix St. Ry., Phoenix, 8

Arkansas
Capital Trans. Co., Little Rock, 21

California
California St. Cable RR., San Francisco (cable), 11
Central Calif. Tra., Sacramento, (F), 4
Key System Trans. Lines, Oakland, 186
Los Angeles Trans. Lines, Los Angeles, 325
Mun. Rys. of San Francisco, San Francisco, 300
Pacific Elec. Ry., Los Angeles, 800
Petaluma & Santa Rosa, Petaluma, (F), 5
Sacramento Northern Ry., Sacramento, 250
San Diego Elec. Ry., San Diego, 30
Tidewater Southern Ry., Stockton, (F), 5

Colorado
Denver & Intermountain Ry., Denver, 25
Denver Tramways, Denver, 120
Ft. Collins Mun. Ry., Ft. Collins, 7
Southern Colorado Power Co., Pueblo, 28

Connecticut
Connecticut Company, New Haven, 80

District of Columbia
Capital Trans. Co., Washington, 165

Florida
St. Petersburgh Mun. Ry., St. Petersburgh, 28

Georgia
Georgia Pwr. Co., Atlanta, 125

Illinois
Chicao, Aurora & Elgin, Wheaton, 103
Chicago, N. Shore & Milwaukee, Highwood, 265
Chicago Rapid Trans., Chicago, 242
Chicago, South Shore & South Bend (see Indiana)
Chicago Trans. Authority, Chicago, 1000
Chicao & West Towns, Oak Park, 25
Illinois Term. RR., Springfield, 491
Rock Island Southern, Galesburg, (F), 21
St Louis & Belleville Ry., Belleville, (F), 18

Indiana
Chicago, S. Shore & South Bend, Michigan City, 163
Cook Trans. Co., Evansville, (F), 2
Evansville & Ohio Valley, Rockport, (F), 13
Indianapolis Rys., Indianapolis, 75
Twin Branch RR., Mishawaka, (F), 3

Iowa
Cedar Rapids & Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, 44
Charles City Western, Charles City, 25
Des Moines & Central Iowa, Des Moines, 80
Des Moines Ry., Des Moines, 50
Ft. Dodge, D.M. & Southern, Boone, 186
Iowa Elec. Light & Pwr., Boone, (F), 1
Iowa Transfer Ry., Des Moines, (F), 4
Mason City & Clear Lake, Mason City, F, 19
Omaha & Council Bluffs St. Ry. (see Nebraska)
Sioux City Trans. Co., Sioux City, 48
Southern Iowa Ry., Centerville, (F), 27
Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern, Waterloo, 128

Kansas
Hutchison & Northern, Hutchison, (F), 6
Kansas City, Kaw Valley RR., Bonner Springs, (F), 42
Kansas City Public Service (see Missouri)
Kansas & Missouri Ry., Kansas City, (F), 21

Kentucky
Cincinnati, Newport & Covington, Covington, 25
Louisville Ry., Louisville, 20

Louisiana
New Orleans Pub. Service, New Orleans, 90

Maine
York Utilities Co., Sanford, (F), 2

Maryland
Baltimore & Annapolis RR., Annapolis, 42
Baltimore Trans. Co., Baltimore, 275
Capital Trans. Co. (see D.C.)
Potomac Edison Co., Frederick, 40

Massachusetts
Eastern Massachusetts St. Ry., Quincy, 11
Metropolitan Trans. Authority, Boston, 343 (elevated lines 58, surface lines 285)

Michigan
City of Detroit, Detroit, 350

Minnesota
Filtration Plant Ry., Minneapolis, 2
Minneapolis, Anoka & Cuyana Range, Fidley, 5
Twin Cities Lines, Minneapolis, 445

Missouri
Illinois Terminal (see Illinois)
Kansas City Pub. Service, Kansas City, 175
St. Francois County RR., Farmington, (F), 10
St. Louis Pub. Service, St. Louis, 300
St. Louis Water Works Ry., St. Louis, 8

Montana
Anaconda St. Ry., Anaconda, 12

Nebraska
Omaha & Council Bluffs St. Ry., Omaha, 100
Omaha, Lincoln & Beatrice, (F), 10

New Hampshire
Claremont Ry., Claremont, (F), 6
Springfield Terminal Ry., (see Vermont)
Uncanoonue Incline Ry., Goffstown, 1

New Jersey
Atlantic City Trans. Co., Atlantic City, 53
Hudson & Manhattan, Jersey City, 20
Philadelphia Trans. Co., (see Pennsylvania)
Pub. Service C. T., Newark and Union City, 80

New York
Hudson & Manhattan, (see New Jersey)
International Ry. Co., Buffalo and Lockport, (F) 100
Jamestown, Westfield & Northwestern, Jamestown, 35
New York City, Trans. Sys., New York, 1033 (subway and elevated 633; surface 400)
Niagara Jct. Ry., Niagara Falls, (F), 30
Queensborough Bridge Ry., Long Island City, 2
Rochester Trans. Co., Rochester, 33
Staten Island R.T., St. George, 97
Third Ave. Trans., New York, 175

North Carolina
Piedmont & Northern Ry., Charlotte, 29

North Dakota
Valley City St. & Int. Ry., Valley City, (F), 2

Ohio
Cincinnati, Newport & Covington, (see Kentucky)
Cincinnati St. Ry., Cincinnati, 220
Cleveland Trans. System, Cleveland, 300
Columbus & Southern Ohio, Columbus, 25
Community Tra. Co., Toledo, 45
Cooperative Trans. Co., (see West Virginia)
Marion Reserve Pwr. Co., Reese, (F), 10
Ohio Midland Lt & Pwr., Obetz Jct., (F) 50
Shaker Heights R. T., Shaker Heights, 26
Toledo & Eastern, (F), 11
Youngstown & Southern, Youngstown, 25

Oklahoma
Sand Springs Ry., Sand Springs, 32
Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Ry., Sapulpa, (F), 15

Oregon
Portland Trac. Co., Portland, 93
Walla Walla Valley Ry., (see Washington)

Pennsylvania
Altoon & Logan Valley, Altoona, 37
Conestoga Transp. Co., Lancaster, 8
Johnstown Trac. Co., Johnstown, 42
Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley, Scranton, 42
Lehigh Valley Trans., Allentown, 120
Philadelphia Suburban Transp. Co., Llanerch, 51
Philadelphia Transp. Co., Philadelphia, 617 (elevated lines 42, surface lines 575)
Philadelphia & Western RR., Norristown, 37
Pittsburgh Railways, Pittsburgh, 544
Reading St. Ry., Reading, 10
Scranton Trans. Co., Scranton, 40
West Penn. Railways, Connellsville, 131
Wilkes-Barre Trans., Wilkes-Barre, 17

Rhode Island
United Elec. Rys., Providence, 25

South Carolina
Piedmont & Northern, Greenveille, 101

Texas
Dallas Ry. & Terminal Co., Dallas, 100
El Paso City Lines, El Paso, 16
Houston North Shore, Houston, 27
Texas Elec. Ry., Dallas, 199
Texas Transp. Co., San Antonio, (F), 1
Waco Trans., Waco, 4 (operates over TE trackage)

Utah
Bamberger Railroad, Salt Lake City, 64
Salt Lake, Garfield & Western, Salt Lake City, 21

Vermont
Springfield Terminal RR., Springfield, (F), 6

Virginia
Capital Trans. Co., (see Washington, D.C.)
Roanoke Ry. & Elec., Roanoke, 15
Virginia Trans., Norfolk and Richmond, 100

Washington
Walla Walla Valley Transp. Co., Walla Walla, (F), 33
Yakima Valley Transp. Co., Yakima, (F), 20

West Virginia
City Lines of West Virginia, Clarksburg, 25
Cooperative Trans. Co., Wheeling, 40

Wisconsin
Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee, (see Illinois)
City of East Troy, East Troy, (F), 7
Milwaukee Elec. Ry. & Tr., Milwakee, 275

CANADA

Alberta
Calgary Trans., Calgary, 75
Edmonton Radial Ry., Edmonton, 48

British Columbia
British Columbia Elec., 300
Nelson Street Ry., Nelson, 3

Manitoba
Winnipeg Elec. Co., Winnipeg, 65

New Brunswick
New Brunswick Pwr. Co., St. John, 21

Nova Scotia
Nova Scotia Lt. & Pwr. Co., Halifax, 27

Ontario
Cornwall St. Ry. Lt. & Pwr., Cornwall, 10
Ft. William Elec. Ry., Ft. William, 21
Grand River Ry., Preston, 18
Hamilton St. Ry., Hamilton, 43
Lake Erie & Northern, Preston, 51
London & Pt. Stanley, London, 47
Niagara, St. Catharines & Toronto, St. Catharines, 80
Oshawa Ry., Oshawa, (F), 22
Ottawa Elec. Ry., Ottawa, 49
Port Arthur Civic Ry., Port Arthur, 20
Sudbury-Copper Cliff Suburban, Sudbury, 8
Toronto Transp. Comm., Toronto, 250

Quebec
Montreal & Southern Counties, St. Lambert, 63
Montreal Tramways, Montreal, 279
Quebec Ry. Lt. & Pwr., Quebec, 48
Shawinigan Falls Term. Ry., Shawinigan Falls, (F), 17

Saskatchewan
Regina Mun. Ry., Regina, 30
Saskatoon Mun. Ry., Saskatoon, 29

Newfoundland Lt. & Power., St. Johns, 3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Car Barn Comments by Steve Maguire (Railroad Magazine, January 1948)

In the midst of the rather gloomy news concerning electric railways which we have had to report since the end of the war, comes an indication that the defects of bus operation are beginning to become evident in those places where they have supplanted efficient and capable electric lines.

For instance, in Los Angeles where the Transit Lines, a subsidiary of the indicted City Lines trust, recently made wholesale and totally unwarranted substitutions of buses on several heavy and important rail lines, the worst tangle in the history of the city came about as a result. But despite requests from the press and the public for restoration of rail service, the LATL has hurriedly ripped up every bit of rail on its private track, thus forestalling an attempt to require them to restore service.

However, plans for rapid transit by rail to the important outlying portions of the suburban areas are being seriously considered by the city. The plans involve double-tracked right-of-way lines built in the center of proposed highways, with operation by Pacific Electric. So, at present it appears likely that in view of the experience to date with the Transit Lines bus service, a group of rapid transit lines may be built into the outlying portions of Los Angeles.

Farther north, in Oakland, Calif., another plan for rail rapid transit is being seriously considered by representatives of the city, county, and local Chamber of Commerce. The proposed railway lines would connect the outlying suburbs of Oakland with the center of that city and would provide a rapid means of entry, via rights-of-way over existing rail lines and over new rail to be constructed. Said Harold D. Weber, former manager of the Oakland Chamber of Commerce, "No area has had optimum development with dependence on motor buses."

In Detroit, the Motor City, the city-owned transportation system is having its headaches, too. Even while plans to abandon all except one rail line to buses are being carried through, the rise in price of gasoline, once 10.8 cents per gallon and now 14.5 cents, threatens to put bus operation in the red. General Manager Sullivan, who once said buses would be cheaper to operate than streetcars, is now forced to admit, "A one cent increase on a gallon of gasoline will put the DSR in debt."

In other words, Detroit can get ready for another fare rise --to be paid by the public. The DSR transport men guessed wrong, but John Q. Public is going to pay as usual.
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I can see why they put Lincoln on the penny. In it's day it was the coin that people had to watch.
Mike
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Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:23 PM
G'day Captain Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

Set 'em up barkeep! Drinks on the Larsman! and I'll take a JD on the rocks for starters . . .

With all the precip we've had lately, it's been quite a test for our refurbished basement wall! Still holding . . .

Lionel brings to mind a steam loco that I used to drool over as a kid - the Hudson. For some reason, this was my favorite. Check out this pix just found on the net . . . .

Lionel Hudson #2056 4-6-4


Can well imagine what one of those beauties sells for these days amongst those who dabble in that online auction house - eBay. No thanks, I'll pass.

Ever wonder what future generations of boys will look back upon as their favorite toys [?] Electric trains had to top the list from my era. How in the world can anyone get all nostalgia bitten by a hand held computer toy [?] <ugh>

Checked my under arms B4 coming through the doors and it seems I passed the "test"! [swg] Hadn't noticed the "slight," until you brought it up . . . but what the "H," I'll stick with my anonymity . . . <grin> Some guys DID make mention of my existence - and to them, I offer "thanks and praise!" (Borrowed from a recent Sunday morning sojourn . . .)

Nice work with the Lionel stuff Tom and Doug . . . looks like this idea of a mid week Toy & Model RR fest is hanging in there. [tup]

Dave I had heard a bit about those UP turbines and for a time, if my memory is working properly, they were on the line. I'm not sure about the era - but that URL Tom provided shows quite a span of years. To harness the potential of a turbine is indeed the way to go. Too bad the PRRs S2 never quite made it for she was an awesome beast of a machine.

Did I read Rob's comments correctly - he's leaving for a "weekend" jaunt in mid week [?] Now, THAT's the way to begin a weekend for sure! Those Canadians know how to do it. [swg] So, a Happy Canada Day to you up there in Ontario. [tup]

I'll take another "hit," if you please, barkeep - then head on out. One of those days where if I don't drag my sorry butt off the stool, I'll wind up sitting here 'til the wee hours, and wouldn't that be a shame [?] <girn> Haven't done that in ages . . . I'm overdue!


Until the next time!


Lars
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:35 PM
G'day!

Couldn't let the day pass by without jumping the "case" of our Left Coast patron with the hat pulled down over his brow! I think he's undercover today - which accounts for the coffee - ONLY! Now, that'll cost ya five bucks, Mate! Yup - five smackeroos for java ONLY. Purchase food, the coffee and soft drinks are FREE. Drink 'em bareback - they cost a fin! Tilla 'n Cashinator express their profound regards and appreciation! Kaching - kaching . . . [swg]

Now, here's a couple of Pix for ya, in reference to your UP steam turbine input . . .

CLICK to enlarge

UP Turbo #80 (courtesy: donsdepot.donrossgroup.net)


UP Turbo #8080 (courtesy: donsdepot.donrossgroup.net)
]

QUOTE: The final effort at turbine power was built in the Omaha company shops. The foundation for this coal fired unit was a retired Great Northern electric locomotive. It was built by General Electric in May, 1947, #28448, as Great Northern 5018, Class W-1, and purchased by UP in September, 1959. The front unit, which provided hostler power and control, was a PA1 which was built by Alco in January, 1949, #76311, as UP 607. The diesel was numbered 80 and the turbine unit was 80B. The whole rebuilding took place in October, 1961. In 1965 these units became 8080 and 8080B to make room for DD35s. The effort was given up in March, 1968. The diesel was traded in to Electro-Motive, May, 1968, and the turbine was scrapped at Omaha in April, 1968.


Check the remainder out at: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr068.htm

Boris Ring da bell - Dave's buying! [tup] [yeah] [wow]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:36 PM
morning Tom, so as not to violate the house rules once more, round of java, shaken not stirred! A night with Awk will cure anyone from straying from the straight and narrow...

Howdy Rob, I do still have Sunday off, typically my "honey Do" day, I can lure the wife with the offer of endless margeritas by the bay, while I go PE hunting!!!!

Doug... Taxes and the railroads, an endless evil cycle, over regulation and taxation darn neared killed off the American railroad in the 60's & 70's. The Staggers act was indeed a positive move...

Keeping with oddball power such as Turbines, how many are aware of the homebuilt example fielded by the Union Pacific.

In 1962, ever searching for more power and disatsified with GE at the moment, UP embarked on it's experiment with a pulverized coal fired turbine, a surplus Alco PA was chosen as the control unit, a former GN electric was obtained from the scrap head and gutted and rebuilt to house the Westinghoue turbines, BK inc. of stoker fame was contracted for the sprayers, auger system and control valves a long departed Challenger or Big Boy tender was used as the fuel/water source. When in operating mode the unit stretched over three hundred feet. The PA got the nod as traction motor capacity was ample to also power the turbine unit, as a hedge against failure the PA retained it's power plant, normally it was not on line when the entire package was operating properly. In stationary drawbar test the unit exceeded eight thousand horsepower and weighed close to a million pounds fully loaded.

he unit was a failure, pure and simple, the Lockead design blades could not handle the rigors of rail enviorment, this stymied all involved and as the debris found its way into the turbines, they would fail as well, often when in service , coal delivery also proved problematic, the fine powder tended to accumlate and clogg vital systems, if mositure was not removed a cement like substance would result, forcing shutdown of the unit before severe dammage resulted.

After two years of trying to make it work, UP abandoned the project, the Alco was traded in to EMD, the turbine unit and tender were scrapped, after retrieving all that could be of possible salvage.
UP returned to GE, this time abandoning the thought of a steam turbine for a radical double diesel based upon common if not somewhat troublesom, unproven technology, the era of the double diesel was on hand.


Enjoy the day

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:27 PM
G’day!

Wednesday means, Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! at the bar! Now, that DOES NOT mean one cannot Post whatever comes to mind – just that for those interested in the hobby, this is your opportunity to pass along some info ‘n a few (emphasis on “few”) Pix! [swg]


Today, my subject is the Lionel version of the PRR S2 steam turbine. Pix and a brief narrative of the prototype appeared on page 365 as the THEME for the DAY!


1948 Lionel catalog featuring the PRR S2 steam tubine



Background:

In late 1944, the Pennsylvania Railroad took delivery of its locomotive 6200. Authorized by the PRR Board of Directors on April 23, 1941, at a cost of $375,000, the revolutionary 6200 was jointly designed by the Pennsylvania’s own engineers, along with those of Westinghouse and Baldwin.

Rather than the conventional reciprocating drive used by steam locomotives up to that time, the massive 6-8-6 was powered by a geared steam turbine of the type found on shops and in power plants. The idea was to dispense with the uneven tractive effort of a conventional locomotive, as well as the “pounding of the rails” inherent with conventional engines. A large turbine propelled it forward, while a smaller one was installed to handle reverse movements.

Unfortunately, the 6200 was not successful, and it was the sole member of the Pennsy’s class S2. While extremely powerful and capable of high speeds, it had a voracious appetite for coal, regardless of speed, making it impractical at the slow speeds trains typically operate at, leading to its removal from service during the summer of 1949.


The Lionel S2

Lionel’s replica was almost as revolutionary and certainly was more successful. Created using all-new tooling, Lionel’s turbines (the O-gauge 671 and O27 2020) were the first electric trains with smoke generators. The 1946 versions of these engines were so radically different from those of succeeding years that they are dealt with as different models in catalogs and brochures.


O-gauge #671



027-gauge #2020



The die-cast boiler of the 671 was held to its chassis by three screws, none of which were visible when the locomotive was on the the track (in fact, no non-scale fasteners are visible with the engine of the rails).

Rather than the traditional slot with protruding E-unit lever, the three-position E-unit of the turbine was controlled through the cab by a plug and socket arrangement.

Prototypically, only a single side rod on either side connected the nickel-rimmed driving wheels. A wire handrail ran the length of either side of the boiler, and the locomotive’s number was rubber-stamped beneath the cab windows.

The armature shaft of the motor ran lengthwise of the locomotive and parallel to the track, unlike later models that were mounted at an angle. Through a spur gear arrangement, the motor drove a driveshaft, which through worm and wheel arrrangements, drove the first and last drive axles of the locomotive.

At the front of the chassis was mounted a die-cast smoke chamber that held a special bulb that was flattened on one side to form a reservoir to hold the smoke material. This bulb doubled as the headlamp, and transmitted its light through a Lucite prism out the decorative headlight at the top of the boiler front. Later, Lionel made available through its service centers a conversion kit to change this arrangement to the heater-type system indroduced in 1947.

The locomotive was supplied with a 671W whistling tender, although in 1946 this number was applied only to the box, not the tender itself.

credit: majority of material obtained from “Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1945-1969 – David Doyle”


Enjoy!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:03 AM
G'day Gents!

Petrol dropped again to $2.73 (rounded) up at “Collusion Corner.” Down a couple of cents, then up a couple of dimes, figure that one out, eh [?] Still comfortable here in mid-continent USA, given that we nearing July. However, our WX men have “come through” with their dire predictions – hot, hot, hot is on the way and should change things by tomorrow. <groan>


Sounding like a broken record, beat goes on – Cardinals are in trouble as they dropped their 8th in a row – all to American League competition. This IS getting to be exasperating, for we KNOW the team is far better than the results have indicated. Oh well, they still are in 1st place – but how did they manage that, eh [?] Seems virtually all the teams in the NL Central have been getting some butt whooping by their AL counterparts, that’s how! <ugh>


Another interesting day at the watering hole yesterday as we wound up with 15 Posts (5 were mine) – which is really terrific. My benchmark is to stay within 1/3rd of the total – not half or more as has been the case numerous times. So it appears that our small group is answering the bell more times than not! [tup] [tup] [tup]

An observation: Lars you may want to check your 24-hour deodorant, for I’ve noted that several Posts have ignored your comments. Hmmmmm – as the commercials from long ago used to say, “Even your best friends won’t tell you!” <grin>


Have a few things on my plate for this day, so let’s get to the acknowledgments:

wanswheel Mike
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:52:58


Nice blend of narrative & URLs! [tup]

Can’t speak for anyone other than myself – but dropping a few bucks in the direction of those sites that provide the Pix storage service doesn’t bother me in the least, especially given the enormous amount of photos I’ve stored. Appreciate the thought . . .

The trip through the Panama Canal probably would’ve been more memorable for me had it occurred at a later stage of my life. I think the return trip by train from LA to NYC via Chicago, by myself, was the real adventure. My father’s ship headed over to Japan, and he put me aboard a Santa Fe streamliner for perhaps one of the best times a kid could’ve had.


West Coast S Dave
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 19:38:19


One of your most inclusive Posts in many a month! [tup] [tup] [tup] But ya know what [?] You forgot to greet the bartender and order a drink! Tweeeeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeeeet! Rules Violation – Rules Violation: Rules #1 ‘n #2 – failure to greet the bartender upon entering AND failing to order a drink! A trip to the Rat’s Patoot Room for you young fella, and some “practice dive bombing sessions” with Awk!! <grin>


barndad Doug
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 20:56:08


Really enjoyed the bit on the Pennsy P5As – hadn’t thought about those in years. Thanx! [tup] A mighty fine road, that one, eh [?]


trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 23:09:14


My guess is that if we could all travel to all the places that we’d like to visit – that’s all we’d be doing! I’ve been most fortunate to have set foot on several continents – all the states – 9 of the 10 Canadian provinces and ridden some of the best passenger trains in North America. Traveling has been a way of life for me, and it began very early on. With a Merchant Mariner for a father and a long history of sailors in my family – guess it just was bound to happen.

Enjoy the holiday weekend! [tup]


EricX2000 Eric
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 00:30:05


Good to see ya once again and enjoy your on-point commentary. Here’s a little something for ya from Wikipedia

QUOTE: The world's busiest railway station, in terms of daily passenger throughput, is Shinjuku Station in Tokyo, Japan. Ikebukuro Station, just minutes away, is the world's second-busiest.
The world's largest railway station, in terms of floor area, is Nagoya Station in Nagoya, Japan. However, the Nagoya Station complex incorporates two office towers and an underground shopping concourse, so the railway terminal itself is not large in comparison to others. Shinjuku Station is the second largest. In terms of platform capacity, the world's largest railway station is Grand Central Terminal in New York City, USA.



barndad Doug
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 05:08:03 & 05:49:42


Two fine bits of reading material! [tup] [tup] I have always enjoyed the CP and have a couple of hardcover books in my modest library of passenger railroads. No doubt about it – the people behind the scenes of that road were truly the adventurous kind of their times! [tup]

Thanx for the Lionel “kick off” to our Toy ‘n Model RR Day! here at the tavern by the tracks! [swg]


Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 06:45:59


Another day another way to spend your retirement bucks! Ever think of it THAT way [?] I do! Easier to depart with the green than to replenish it these days, eh [?]

Always a pleasure to have you on board and I KNOW that Boris is happy to see ya! Especially in light of the disappearance of his “boss man,” Nick . . . ‘nuf said on that one.


passengerfan Al
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 07:54:24


Anything on the Pennsy “does it” for me. Just love to put myself back in time . . . ahhhhhhhhhhhh. [tup] Good submittal this AM . . .


I see jlampke John peeking in from time to time – could it be that our Pacific sailor is about to check in [?]


That’s it for now. I’ll be behind the bar for the days! So, whatillyahave [?]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:54 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for my usual cup of coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Eric, you asked a question about the size of the PRR streamlined fleet. By the beginning of the 1950's the streamlined fleet of the PRR was the largest. Not only did they operate streamlined cars coast to coast in cooperation with several western roads but they also operated streamlined cars that operated in ACL, SAL and Southern trains as well as N&W trains. By the early 1950's the PRR operated more streamlined trains than any other railroad. The one area the PRR never invested money in was streamlined Head End cars. All PRR streamliners operated with heavyweight head cars. The PRR purchased streamlined cars from Pullman Standard, Budd and AC&F and also built many of their own in the Altoona shops.

Even with the large numbers of streamlined cars owned by the PRR many trains operated with heavyweights in their consists until the early 1960's. It was only when passenger loadings dropped substantially that the PRR and other roads were able to begin retiring many heavyweights. This was not only true of the PRR but rival, NYC, B&O, E-L and most other eastern roads operated in the same manner. BVut not only was it was true of the eastern roads but also true of the western roads as well. The NP Mainstreeter comes immediatly to mind. It operated with heavyweight cars in its consists almost up to the BN merger. GN operated their Seattle-Portland service with mostly heavyweights until the BN merger as well. SP operated a number of trains with heavyweights still in their consists until they were discontinued such as the Argonaut and Owl. UP operated the Portland Rose and Idahoan with heavyweights in their consists as well.

TTFN Al
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:05 AM


We open at 6 AM.
(All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Mid-week is upon us! C’mon in – enjoy a cup of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – a <light or <traditional breakfast from the Menu Board and of course one or two goodies from The Mentor Village Bakery!



Daily Wisdom


I’m as red as a sheet.
ENCORE! Yogi-ism



Info for the Day:


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Toy ‘n Model Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars
May – June . . To be announced



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

SIGNS YOU HAVE GROWN UP!


1. You actually eat breakfast food at breakfast time.

2. "I just can't drink the way I used to," replaces, "I'm never going to drink that much again."

3. 90% of the time you spend in front of a computer is for real work.

4. You drink at home to save money before going to a bar.


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre


NOW SHOWING:
Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, June 25th thru July 1st: Blazing Saddles (1974) starring: Gene Wilder, Cleavon Little & Slim Pickins – and – Fierce Creatures (1997) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin. SHORT: Ants in the Pantry (1936).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, July 2nd thru 8th: 1776 (1972): starring: William Daniels & Howard Da Silva – and – The Patriot (2000) starring: Mel Gibson, Heath Ledger & Joely Richardson. SHORT: Movie Maniacs (1936).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 05:10:23 (364) Van Horne of the CPR, etc.

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 06:50:08 (364) Tuesday’s Info & 13-Post Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:05:28 (364) ENCORE: RR from Yesteryear #3 – PRR

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:21:45 (364) THEME: PRR streamlined dome cars

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:29:48 (364) Bearman’s Inclusive Gulf Coast Report!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:48:52 (364) THEME: PRR GG1 Pix!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 10:12:53 (365) THEME: PRR S2 #6200 ‘n 2 Pix!

(8) BudKarr BK Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 12:15:56 (365) Mountain Report!

(9) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 15:13:56 (365) Island Report!

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 16:38:18 (365) Comments

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:34:33 (365) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments & THEME: PRR Pix!

(12) wanswheel Mike Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:52:58 (365) Inclusive Post ‘n THEME: PRR GG1 URLs!

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 19:38:19 (365) Most Inclusive Left Coast Report!

(14) barndad Doug Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 20:56:08 (365) Barnyard Chat ‘n PRR P5As & Joke!

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 23:09:14 (365) Count Robulla’s Most Inclusive Nite Cap!



That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:45 AM
Good mornin' on this gloomy Thursday here in the Sunshine State. Tom, just a cuppa Joe for now and lots'a kudoos for The Pensy "Theme" which surprised so many. Rob, finally got my bearings and now may pass "GO" from the recent inundation. Apparantly, I'm not alone in "life boat" status of a "sink or swim" survivor.[:-^] The posts of early "risk takers" and "ram rods put forth by Doug and yourself surely brought us back to a time when "all things were possible." Or, at least, there were men still around with the imagination and the "grit" to make the impossible...possible.[tup] That spirit is lost to us with the ever paralyzing grip of bureaucracy, state controls and even "activists" groups plunging into areas of industry of which they are totaly ignorant.[tdn] Of course, that is a topic for another thread at another time, I suppose. The teams of Tom and Al (a.k.a George and Ira Gershwin) and Tom and Doug (a.k.a. Lerner and Lowe) have "done it again." Respectively, they are making the lyrics and melodies that keep "Our" Place Number One on the Kalmbach "Hit Parade," and the "tunes go on and on."[tup] X infinity.

The 9.1 on the Richter Scale Alaskan report by Cap'n Tom and earlier reports from our first Rendesvous up Toronto way should pretty well "nail down" the essence of regularly scheduled passenger service in the Northern Hemisphere. For anything comparable, it looks as though there would be great distances to cover for equal prospects.[V] Not by choice but neccessity, I must make this a brief encounter as the pace here has not lessened, nor does it appear it will any time soon.[V] The "Turbine" steam efforts of several Roads could be a Tome of input unto itself.[:O] Still, there are many other areas already touched upon (electrification, stainless steel cars painted over, Road's locomotive shops, terminals still in use or abandoned, et al.) any one of which begs expanding upon. But not now, so Boris pull the chain for another round, I'm late already. Not that chain you Ninny! Are you trying to turn Tex into a Arma***?[:(!]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:49 AM
Now take a look at a little something from my Lionel catalog!

Lionel Postwar Celebration Series from 1999 Vol. 1 Lionel catalog

We knew that the postwar period was one of the most studied and celebrated periods in our 100-year history. But we could never have predicted the enthusiasm with which this series has been greeted by the legions of people who so fondly remember the era.

Change is constant. We can’t stop it. And we really don’t want to. But Lionel trains have always been a medium for sparking our imagination and escaping the stress and anxiety of everyday lives. Your layout is your world. Nothing happens unless you want it to. You’re in control.

Which is why we wanted to recreate some of our favorite products from the postwar era. Reality will eventually make such a series impractical to make. Things like our Pullmor open-frame motors, for example, will eventually disappear from our factory floor. But until that day comes, we stand proudly behind our history and the products that define it. Call us old-fashioned if you must, we like this stuff!

So here it is – Volume III of the Lionel Postwar Celebration Series. Each re-creation has its roots in Lionel history, but has been improved to reflect the best of what we’ve learned since the original first graced our catalogs. Each product is decorated with a handsome builder’s plaque and comes in a unique Celebration Series box.

No club membership is required, but based on response to date, we strongly urge you to get your order in early.

Originally offered in 1953, this F3 proved to be one of our most popular locomotives. Not to be outdone is our classic Burlington GP-7, originally introduced in 1955 boasting diesel horn and Magne-Traction! Now they’re back! Available for a limited time – hurry in to your Lionel dealer!


In case you can’t read the small print, the Texas Special F3 and Burlington GP-7 units were $350 each. I had no idea that Lionel was making cars like these! Get your hands on a Lionel catalog, and I think you’ll be surprised to see what they’re marketing these days.

Now, this guy has a real problem

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:08 AM
Good morning Tom and all! I'll have a light breakfast, and then I think I'm just nuts enough to see if I can get to work on my bike without getting caught in a thunder storm.

Glad you liked the Van Horne post Rob and Eric. Here's another bit of information to read with your morning coffee:

Taxes and a Silk Train from Railroad Stories Dec. 1935

Back in the ‘80’s the Canadian Pacific Railway owed the little village of Port Arthur, Ont. (then Prince Arthur’s landing), about fourteen thousand dollars in taxes on property and right-of-way. This sum was an accumulation of several years, pending negotiations between the town and the railroad. The C.P.R. was asking for tax exemption on the grounds of certain advantages it brought to the town, and the village retorted that exemption might be arranged if the company would handle all its freight over the Port Arthur docks instead of diverting a part of it to Fort William, the newer town springing up in the west.

William Van Horne, later Sir William Van Horne, president of the road, would give no assurances as to whether this request would be met, and the controversy entered the stage where neither side would yield an inch.

The taxes remained unpaid. The C.P.R. was billed and bulled, cajoled, written to and written at, but it refused to pay. Tax collector William Sydney Beaver was ordered by the city fathers to get the full amount or to seize the railway property to satisfy it. He acted promptly, with the usual thoroughness of Canadian officials.

Silk shipments from the Orient were then being routed to the East via Port Arthur. Mr. Beaver waited until a particularly valuable silk express stopped long enough to change crews and seized it in the name of the village. Telegraph wires buzzed. A town of a few hundred souls had the temerity to cross swords with the great national carrier!

The village was adamant. Pay up and it would release the train; no pay and it would stay there until hell froze over. Interest on a million dollars mounts up fast, and the C.P.R. would be held responsible for undue delays. The village became hard-boiled. When the officials of the railway finally agreed to pay, the tax collector would not accept a check now a warrant drawn on the home office. He demanded cash.

A hasty inventory of Port Arthur’s one and only bank disclosed twelve thousand dollars – two thousand short of the sum needed. Mr. Beaver wouldn’t take that either. Full payment or none was his dictum. After a frantic search, in which the C.P.R. employees were asked to contribute (as a loan, of course), the additional two thousand was raised. The full amount was paid and the train and its freight was released.

William Van Horne was furious. He never forgave Port Arthur. He informed the mayor and the council that he would live to see grass growing on its main streets. Keeping his word, next spring the C.P.R. routed all its freight boats to Fort William, and began the removal of its freight terminals from Port Arthur.

The feud grew by leaps and bounds. Port Arthur merchants refused to accept goods routed through Fort William. They notified consignors in both the Dominion and the United States that they also would not accept goods shipped on C.P.R. boats. This embargo had quick results and in two months, figuratively speaking, the railroad was on its knees to the town.

Then William Van Horne came to Port Arthur to see at first hand the little village that had defied his company. The city fathers were ready for reconciliation, but not at Van Horne’s price The removal of terminals to Fort William continued, but freight was routed directly to Port Arthur. This was a concession which C.P.R. had to make.

Today Port Arthur has a population in excess of twenty thousand, much larger that Fort William, but it still remains, so far as the C.P.R. is concerned, just a station in its far-flung system. The main station is a Fort William – R.A. Emberg.

[:I] Mr. Smith wanted to become a teacher in the worst way, but the only job he could find was as an instructor at an all female college teaching sex education. His wife was a very jealous woman so Mr. Smith decided he would tell his wife that he would be teaching sailing at this college so that she would not get angry. He was very happy and for months all was well. As fate would have it, one day in the grocery store check out lane, Mrs. Smith overheard a group of girls standing in line behind her talking about college and their instructor Mr. Smith. The girls went on and on about how great this Mr. Smith was at teaching their class. The cashier handed Mrs. Smith her change and said, "Have a great day Mrs. Smith, and thank you, again." One of the girls in line heard the cashier, and asked Mrs. Smith if she was related to the Mr. Smith that was teaching at the college. Mrs. Smith replied, "Yes, he is my husband." Well that set off a torrent of accolades about how knowledgeable Mr. Smith was about the subject matter he was teaching, about how he got the whole class to discuss their fears about learning the subject. Well Mrs. Smith was taken back by what she heard from these girls and replied, "I don't know how you find him to be so gifted at teaching you this course. You know he only tried it twice in his life. The first time he tried it, he got sick, and the second time, his hat blew off and he just quit." [:I]
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Posted by EricX2000 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:30 AM
Good morning Gentlemen! Leon, I would like a Gul and Blå, please. That will be something else.
A lot of interesting reading tonight (as usual).

Tom - You wrote that gas dropped to $2.75, last night I saw one gas station here that instead raised it from $2.87 to $2.91. Hope that isn’t start of a new trend. I think I read something last winter about New Zealand and improved passenger service. Very interesting to read the history of PRR. I think that Union Station, Washington, DC is the biggest in the world in one way or the other. I don’t remember right now. I did not know that Union Station in Chicago used to be PRR. I am always learning something! Thanks! Nice picture of GG1 4877! PRR S2 #6200 is a very interesting turbine locomotive. Too bad it was scrapped. I think most railroads that tried turbine locomotives did that only for a shorter period of time. One of few railroads that actually used turbines for several years was a Swedish railroad, TGOJ. They operated three turbine locomotives from 1930-31 to 1953, hauling ore trains.

Al - 13 streamlined sleeping cars (22 after the merger). How many sleeping cars did they run in an average night train? 2-3? How about PRR? Considering how many trains they were running it seems like they did not have many streamliners.

Ted - My career as a street car conductor was pretty short, just two years, until I was drafted to the Air Force for a year. But it was a lot of fun. I am looking for a picture that was taken the day when I and some other people had finished our training. I am not sure where it is hiding, but I will find it.

Rob - I looked for pictures of the Swedish Bikini Team tonight and they actually have an official website,
http://www.swedishbikiniteam.com/
But watch out, one is from Norway (maybe Lars knows her?) and one was born in England (by Swedish parents). The first SBT was a fake, all American! Phoenix is planning a pretty extensive system of light rail, the first segment will be about 20 miles long. I don’t remember the exact number. The city could actually restore much of the old street car system, most of the rails are still in place under a few layers of black top. It was too expensive to tear them up. They were resurfacing some streets downtown Phoenix in the late 90’s and found tracks but decided to leave them as they were.

BK - Now you are making me curious, work-pleasure situation in Sweden? Did you work there? Downloaded timetable covers, that is also a kind of collection!?

Doug - That certainly was a drastic (but effective?) way to protect the trains. Do you know if it worked? I am glad I won’t be around 2056. The future doesn’t look that bright if all those predictions become true. But they made me laugh! Feel sorry for the Florida voters though. Interesting story about William Cornelius Van Horne. He was obviously the man to get it done! 508 miles of handlaid track in one season (6-8 months?). Wow! P-5a was indeed overshadowed by GG1. I guess one reason was that looked very much the same.

Mike - My second language is English, but I am working to make it my first lkanguage and Swedish my second and after almost 14 years in Phoenix I am at least thinking in English! I also learned German in school, but most is forgotten.

Eric
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:09 PM
Good evening gents. Leon a small cr and a round for the assembles masses[?][swg]

Tom I think a fine choice was made of the Pennsey as the road for the day,it's gotten a bit on converstaion and some marvelous posts and pictures to boot. I'm not overly conversant on the PRR, but I do enjoy reading about and looking at the info on their "wired" subdivisions and the beasts that travelled those rails. [tup]As you knwo I'm heading towards the north country for the holiday weekend, we'll likely leave thursday night to avoid any unforseen traffic. So ill bid everyone a happy Canada day and a happy Independance day this evening so as my not seeming to rude as to not have wished everyone a wonderfull holiday weekend. I would guess that this upcomming weekend will be sparce.

al Always on side with the ole streamliners[tup] Amazing how Tom's wonderfull photography has gotten all the womenfolk riled up about going to Alaska.LOL Heather even said that the scenery was pretty, but she's adament that we see both coasts of this country first ( she wants to see her rootes in NFLD )and she wants to meet the rest of my family that live on the West coast ( I only see them infrequently and she's never met them )Still all in all the lure of travelling by rail in Alaska is a tempting one.

Dave if your boss does perchance allow you to head to that PE expose, I do hope that you will expose some film [;)]

Doug Wonderfull post on Van Horne, he was quite the charactor and quite the railroad builder. Likley one of the few railway barrons that you could say thought a great deal about the welfare of his employee's. it's truly a testiment to the man and his team as to how much they were able to accomplich with so little in reguards to modern construction apliyances ( even for their time )

Great pennsey wire article today as well.[tup] You gotta lobve those GG1's !

BK sounds like it is a very ambitious travell itinerayr that you folks are contemplating. that outta eat up the rest of your frequent flyer miles [swg]Actually my mom and dad always said that it's better to travel when you are able to enjoy it and can physically handle it. they've kicked themselves for not taking up a friend of theirs offer to go to the continent about ten years ago. The fixed incomes and health of two 70+ year olds won't allow it now [sigh]

Mike Those streetcar systems in both our countries are, all long and forgotten. What most people don;t realize is the positive city and comunity building impact that they had. They were quite the social thing to do in the early part of the last century.
All we can do is talk abut them and keep the flame alive as it were.Your urls were right ion again today as usual [tup]

Ted No ru***o read #29 it's one of the shorter ones I've put forth for purusal. Unfortunatly you will need to read it Doug's van Horn and all Tom and everyone elses fine Pennsey posts as well. At least the weekend should be a bit quiet and you will get upto the plateform with the rest of us [tup]
I don't think that Sgt Preston has jurisdiction in this case Inspector Doyle may have to suffice. I think that his lost prey is truly lost to us, which is a pitty.[sigh]


Leon you gave me the glass with the holes in it again. I think a refill and another round is in need.

Rob
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:56 PM
Good evening Tom and gents! I'll have a bottomless draught and buy a round for the house. Pretty sneaky springing the RR theme at the last minute, but I managed to come up with something. Enjoyed the Wikipedia and other PRR submissions from you, and you are right ...great minds ...same gutter.

Thanks for the Streamline Domes post brother Al, the Broadway Limited from Lars and the usual terrific URLs from Mike. Yes Ted, we need to know all there is to know about Ted Voss' choice of model RR constuction materials, and I will find out! Great to see Dave in the house tonight!

Here's my humble submission for today:


The Pennsylvania Railroad had an extensive fleet of locomotives running under catenary. Electric No. 4787 is an example of a 2-C-2 (or 4-6-4) type that was built between 1931 and 1935. No. 4787, Class P-5a, was in the last group, Nos. 4781-4790, and was constructed at Altoona in 1935. Some of the locomotives in this class were also outshopped by Westinghouse or General Electric, though all parts were interchangeable.

The first two (box cab) locomotives were experimental, and classified P-5. With their success, the railroad ordered more. Subsequent units, though, had larger traction motors, thus the P-5a classification. To reduce exposure to enginemen in the event of collision, engines built after May 1, 1934 had steeple cabs incorporated into a streamlined body style similar to the joint Altoona-Raymond Loewy styling of the newly developed GG-1.

Although overshadowed by the famed GG-1, the P-5a’s established a very creditable record in their initial use on the lines east of Harrisburg and north of Potomac Yard. They were successful in both freight and passenger service. Regearing from 90 to 70 mph maximum speed simply adapted them to heavier work. Their 3,750 continuous horsepower rating was produced by three twin-motored axles.

Along low-grade lines and other electrified freight routes, the P-5a became a way of life and a tradition with the PRR men. They handled the bulk of fast symbol trains, heavy tonnage drags and locals, on the Philadelphia, New York, and Maryland Divisions. They flourished around Enola, Pa., where an average of 125 P-5a units were serviced every 24 hours. In 1942 Enola dispatched engines for a daily average of 73 trains eastbound, and 64 trains westbound. There could be one, two or three units per train. Though 52 of the original 92 engines were still active in mid-1962, they were replaced shortly after by new E-44 class rectifiers. Photo taken at Sunnyside Yard, N.Y., Nov. 16, 1938

[:I] "Mr. Clark, I have reviewed this case very carefully," the divorce court judge said, "And I've decided to give your wife $775 a week." "That's very fair, your honor." the husband said "And every now and then I'll try to send her a few bucks myself!". [:I]
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Posted by West Coast S on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:38 PM
Afternoon all, a fine muggy day here is LaLa land!!!

A fine theme, the mighty Pennsy, The heady times were before my time, only can recall the PC era, what other road used E units in coal service around Horseshoe Curve.

I've been trying all day to get to my stool, too many distractions....

Doug..harking back several days to a amusing observation you proffered regarding my generosity with the libations reguarding my tollerance level, I have never been under the table, been hit by a few in my younger days, not the stuff to pass on to the grandchildern. Great job with the history lesson...Oh, no not anouther Ho layout..just jesting, some good modeling for being such a tiny scale.


Al...Interesting sea story, we don't do water, wife has reoccuring visions of the Titanic diaster!! My last adventure pales in the comfort factor,I once got a grand tour via a Coast Guard Skip of the Channel Islands area, we had to be doing 30 knots in a 20 footer on open ocean, what a ride, took a week to get food to stay down!!!!

Tom, the mighty Pennsy, the standard of the world once upon a time, then came Penn central and the handwriting was on the wall. I did have one encounter with the Pennsy in the final days that i'll never forget, begrimed E units lugging coal around Horseshoe Curve. The ill fated S2 brings to mind similar vain attempts over at the Union Pacific, on two occasions they tried to master the technology, twice they failed....

Rob, the resident interurban resident is up to his usual best, there is a special PE unvailing this weekend at Port's o' Call our local tourist clip joint, however they bring in restored equiptment for operation during the summer months, wonder if the boss would give me Saturday off???

BK, Lovedome, AH, springtime and a young man's fancy turns to baseball, personally i'm off the sorry Dodgers and the moniker Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles in akin to a oxymoron. What is one to do...

Mike, technical?, I'll trade some my megar knowledge for your mastery of URL's, hey, were here with a common bond and purpose, skill level does not apply....

Well, i'm out of whit for the day, time to retreat until tomorrow...

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:52 PM
Good evening Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

Lars won't get into baseball but I will, and so will CM3. The Mets are at Fenway!
3-1 Boston in the top of the 4th at the moment, 2 Mets on base, 1st and 3rd, one out......yikes here comes David Wright...he walked, bases loaded

Tom, thanks for the reply to my email. Your ride through the Panama Canal at the age of 9 has to be one of the greatest experiences of your life, even today.

Thanks also to Dave for a compliment, I enjoy your posts too, though the technical goes over my head.

Doug, the model railroad depicted Sunday is a work of art, thanks for the bucket. Sorry to hear that you have to part with ca***o get those pictures here. You too Tom.

Rob, so little is known about the importance of the trolley systems that came and went before I was born. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Eric, somehow I knew you had been a streetcar conductor. Probably from the Swedi***o Engli***ranslation of your excellent website. I am in awe of people who can master a second language. I failed Latin and gave up.

Al, the beer at the airport in Darwin was a dark, potent brew, served warm, and it was good. I was there to clear customs for R&R in Sydney. The Aussies are great. One of my brothers was in the Navy, incidentally, and he raved about the "Bullet Train" in Japan.

Ted, you know Baltimore, the movie "Avalon" was filmed there and they used The PRR GG1 4890 as a prop. It looked to be pulling a train but it was pushed.

4890 in 1965
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4890.jpg

4890 in Green Bay 2002
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4890afh.jpg

The Congressional
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr4868.jpg

The Congressional as a postage stamp
http://www.railfan.net/railpix/gg1stamp.jpg

New York World's Fair 1940
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN10459.jpg

Phoebe Snow in Hoboken 1959
http://el-list.elhts.org/archives/snow.jpg
Mike
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:34 PM
G'day Gents!

An interesteing day, eh [?] A little of this 'n a little of that. [tup]

It WAS a deliberate act on my part to avoid mentioning the ID of the "Theme for the Day" - just to see how things panned out. Decided upon an ENCORE! since we really aren't back to full speed 'round the joint yet. With CM3 away and Pete a mystery - plus the sporadic visits during the mid-mornings and afternoons - makes little sense to "waste": an oriignal submission.

Appreciate all the contributions this fine day, whether they be "on point" or not. Just because we have a "Theme" doesn't require one and all to fall into lock step. Nope - that isn't and hasn't been the intent. Just an opportunity to participate - if one wishes to.

Interesting dialogue going on between BK 'n Lars regarding those "Honey, may I?" guys. I could chime in with a bunch of stories - but won't. Just log me in the column where men are men thrive. [swg] Where did all this begin, anyway [?] [swg]

So, my Alaska Pix have created a degree of "interest" out there amongst the fair ladies, eh[?} Sorry 'bout that, Mates! [swg] Hey, it could be worse - they might be trying to drag your butts to some place like a botanical gardens or a craft show. <grin>

Al If your plans should take you to Branson, MO - let me know in advance. Perhaps we can hook up for lunch or dinner. It's about a 5 hour drive from where we are . . . .

The news in this town is focused on the "demise" of the Cardinals which is really distressing. Not the "demise," as much as those who are so shallow. I remember living and dying with the old Bums of Brooklyn - the Dodgers. In "my day" they would sqaure off with the hated Yankees more times than not in the World Series - but lose, year after year - until the "magic year" of 1955, that is! [yeah] As "Yogi" would tell us, "It ain't over, 'til it's over!" <grin>

Once again, appreciate the contributions from ALL - and it is good to know that "great minds think alike!" Doug Go for it! [tup]

One more THEME Pix . . . .

PRR E7A #5840 (foto credit: J. Hunt)



REMINDER:
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!



Tom[4:-)] [oX)]






Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:38 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Now my Missus has seen your Alaska pix and now I'm getting why don't we take a cruise and ride the trains as well. Just so happens a Alaska Cruise Brochure arrived in yesterdays mail and started the ball rolling. Like you and Lars I don't want anything to do with the cruise but would lave to take the trains of the ARR. Also like the rest that seem to read this forum I am not interested in those cruise trains.
I also received a brochure yesterday on a trip to Branson, Missouri that utilizes Amtrak from the Central Valley south to Los Angeles and the Southwest Chief from LA to KC then private coach to Branson for 4 days then return to KC where you board an Amtrak Bus for Omaha where yo board the California Zephyr for the return to Sacramento. I don't care much for organized tours but this would be more to my liking.

I don't know whether they still operate but many years ago more than I care to remember took a small coastal steamship that belonged to CN from Northern Newfoundland to all of the small ports along the coast of Labrador. My Doctor in Toronto at the time put me on to this trip as he had worked as a Doctor for eight years on these little ships. Actually he did not have much doctoring to do on the ship itself but for many of these remote ports he was the only doc they saw. Certainly wasn't a cruise ship by any stretch of the imagination but the small cabin was spotlessly clean and the food simple. Probably one of the best weeks vacation I ever enjoyed. And the best part was how cheap it was.

Enough of my rattling.

TTFN Al
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Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 3:13 PM
G'day Cap'n Tom and felllow travelers at the bar!

Boris you horrid looking beast - ring the bell and let's have a round for the house! <grin>

A miserable day on the "Island" as the rains seem to have decided to roost right over us - more predicted for tomorrow, etc. <ugh>

Been rather busy with this 'n that, not to mention a problem with the access to the forums. I think that may have been more weather related than not - but then again, not certain. Sure took 4ever to load some pages - and I mean 4ever. [tdn] Reminded me of the old dial-up days . . .

Ah, the Pennsy and all that those memories conjure up. Biased as I am, just love - or revere (I saw that word earlier and it "fits") all of 'em that used Penn Station or Grand Central as their terminus. Those indeed were the good old days! [tup]

Honestly haven't had the time to spend checking on this or that, much less have anything prepared for this "Theme Day" - in fact, had no idea what it was going to be! Have you changed something, Tom [?] My guess is you are trying to reduce the "flow" or something. Not a bad idea, really, if that's it.

Won't get into baseball - as I see there's "trouble in River City - and that's spelled with a capital T . . . " [swg] Hey! It's still a long way until the playoffs and anything can and will happen.

I did pick up on the exchange regarding those excursion trains versus the real McCoy. Ted and you share my thoughts precisely - if they ain't scheduled, with real people going to and from real places, I'll pass, thank you very much. Reminds me a bit of the cruise line craze - as if these people really know and understand what going to sea is really all about. BS - that ain't going to sea, even if they are at sea! What did I say [?] Am I turning into a "Yogi" up close 'n personal [?] [swg]

The Mrs. and I have truly enjoyed your Alaska pix, Tom and we thank you for sharing them with us all. 5-[tup] Salute to you Sir! [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] Also admire the way you handle your submissions - keeping the more personal and private ones out of the Ether. Way to go! [tup] We're both now seriously talking about taking such a journey - and we too would fly up to Anchorage. If they put me aboard one of those cruise ships, I'd have to head directly below decks to kick some butt and get things squared away - but then of course, I'd wake up only to realize that it's all proabably so technically advanced, that you'd never find the shovel to stoke those boilers! <grin>

I've seen that terriotory from the sea side and it is fantastic. A trip up through the Inland Passage would indeed be a treat. I'd opt for a smaller, less crowded vessel though. Anyway, see what YOU have started!! [?] [swg]

Hey BK, good to see that you made it in and have "missed" me! [swg] Australia, New Zealand, Alaska, Sweden, and the "continent" - what in the world is going on [?] Thought you retired to put the anchor down [?] <grin> Sounds like you and your lady are planning some fantastic getaways . . . .

Enjoyed your thoughts regading the "Honey, May I?" approach to manhood! [tdn] I could tell many a story about guys like that. Used to have to put up with a few from time to time - but managed to square away some, and "can" some others. Also have no use for these kinds of people as friends or acquaintenances either. I used to go to ball games with a guy - hockey too - until his Mrs. got in the way of it. She couldn't understand why she wasn't invivted! Can you believe that [?] I mean this was simply a couple or three guys going to a danged ball game for some dogs and brew. It hardly was a nite out in that sensse . . . Really yanked my chain over that one until I finally told the guy to make a choice - because I sure in heck wasn't goingn to get involved with that crap. Haven't seen him since - and that was several years back. Your comments brought it back to mind. [tdn]

Back to the Pennsy - here's one I couldn't resist dropping off - then I gotta skeedaddle!

PRR Broadway Limited (1961)(from: www.trainweb.com)



Until the next time!

Lars
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Posted by BudKarr on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:15 PM
Good Afternoon (morning here!) Captain Tom and the not-so-all assembled! [swg]

My compliments with regard to a fine selection as the "Theme for the Day!" ENCORE production notwithstanding, there may be no railroad in North America to rival the impact of the revered "Pennsy." [tup]


A round of cheer for those on hand and we will partake in a bit of brunch this fine day - two #7s please along with a mug of steaming java for me and a cuppa tea for my lady - thank you! [tup]

Finally was able to load those pages containing the photos from Sunday's gala. We are still rather puzzled at the "problem" encountered, however, that is now history - as they say - and I pass along my kudos to those of you who made the day such a resounding success! [tup] I would say that Sir Doug outdid himself with those model photos, but they certainly held my interest and the details are amazing. I know that my abilities lie elsewhere after having seen the fine work of people such as our Proprietor and this fellow from Illinois who put together such efforts.

We are enjoying your Alaska spread Sir Tom and cannot avoid thinking of making that trip - sleeping cars notwithstanding! [swg] Lydia has come up with enormous amounts of material for Denali - I am not certain whether there will be an examination on it! - but the place does look inviting to say the least. I am far too along in years for that kind of back packing and mountain climbing, but there are helicopters! [swg] [tup]

Again - very nice work, and also enjoyed the input from Eric - the "Big Boy" is indeed an impressive piece of machinery. Even I - the novice of the bunch - can recognize that! <grin>

Hope my comments regarding the "efficiency" of the postings did not irritate anyone - the intent was, and is, to provide another point of view to it all. Volumes and volumes of material does have a way of winding up in that cyber trash heap - which is indeed a pity, considering the time and effort put into those postings.

I noted the comment regarding my "bookend" not being able to log on. Hope his cyber situation improves, as his daily postings have become something to look forward to for me. [tup] Also, I thought Sir Pete had returned [?] Seems to have gone again! Perhaps that "list' of things to do while he was in the "mother country" has given him cause to hide! <grin>

Eric Those Nickel Plate timetable covers that I posted a few days back were downloads. I have no collections of any kind - unless weaponry is being discussed! <grin> My background is not one that lends itself easily to railroading, whether it be real or model. However, I have found myself attracted to this establishment of Captain Tom's and simply try to contribute where I may.

Lydia wants us to purchase "season tickets" to the Emporium Theatre! She is enthralled with your weekly selections of films. May I ask, are these all part of your personal library [?] You seem to come up with so many that "fit" quite well into whatever may be coming up for the crew. [tup]

Just delved through the pile of newspapers from Edmonton that have accumulated and the Pronger story has indeed inflamed those folks. Appears to be a legitimate request on the part of the player, however, as stated yesterday - certain things go with the job. Apparently he does not see it that way - or most certainly his wife does not.

Speaking for myself, I could not live with myself if I had to tailor whatever it was my careeer responsibilities happened to be around the demands of family. That is not within my make up. I recognize others do it all of the time - "Honey, may I?" sort of thing. No thank you. If the bread comes from my labors, and those are the labors I am fortunate enough to do well and enjoy - then my choice would be easy to make.

We shall be heading down the mountain a bit later on, with tomorrow a bit questionable for my presence as well.

Ring the bell Boris - another round, for tomorrow! [tup]

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high mountain country!
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 10:12 AM
THEME for the DAY! – THEME for the DAY!

The single S2, #6200, in a PRR promotional image. (Public Domain)



PRR S2 #6200 (foto credit: unknown)


QUOTE: The Pennsylvania Railroad used the largest direct-drive steam turbine locomotive in the world. Built by Baldwin Locomotive Works, the S2 Turbine, c/n 70900, was delivered to Pennsylvania Railroad in September of 1944. It was originally designed as a 4-8-4, but due to shortages of lightweight materials during World War II, the S2 became the only locomotive ever built with a 6-8-6 wheel arrangement. PRR #6200, the S2 turbine, had a maximum power output of 6,900 HP (5.1 MW) and was capable of speeds over 100mph. With the tender, the unit was approximately 123 feet long. While the gearing system was simpler than a generator, it had a fatal flaw: the turbine was inefficient at slow speeds. Below about 40 mph (64 km/h) the turbine used enormous amounts of steam and fuel. At high speeds, however, the S2 could propel heavy trains almost effortlessly and efficiently. The smooth turbine drive put far less stress on the track than a normal piston-driven locomotive. However, poor efficiency at slow speeds doomed this turbine, and with diesel-electrics being introduced, no more S2s were built. This magnificent machine was retired in 1949 and scrapped in May, 1953.

courtesy: www.wikipedia.com


Enjoy! [tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:48 AM
G'day!

Can't "talk" Pennsy without one of these . . . .

Pennsy GG-1 (courtesy: www.trainweb.org)
Copyright © Corel Corp.


Later! [tup]


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:29 AM
A good Tuesday mornin' one and all. I'm still recovering from the Blitz of June 24 and 25, and from the look of it...26th. Tom and BK, I certainly enjoy being in the company of those who suggest moderation in the length of "single" posts.[^] While I do have Verizon DSL high speed service, accessing the thread and material is NOT the problem. My "problem" is that I never took a course in "speed reading" and with limited time for leisure at the P.C.; falling into the abyss of cyber "over kill" is inevitable.[V] If it is "sink or swim" time hereabouts, I can be found with a Spider Net near the bottom.

Tom, just a quick Prune Dani***o go please, thanks. Say Eric, when time permits, some street car Conductor lore would be appreciated.[tup] Doug, anything you may learn of Mr. Voss' technique would be appreciated by more folks than me, I'm sure. I'm wondering about Ted's choices of track (Atlas, Peco, et al.) and turnouts, X-overs, db. slips, etc. as well. Yes, it is true, I am an encouragible "brain picker" with all the chutzpah that title implies.[:O]

Rob, yes indeed the 24 v. constant power supply to the rails (DCC) does forgive a lack of laborious track maintenance indeed. Every Fall, I did the obligatory rounds of Scotch-Brite pads and palm sander on the G gauge ROW. Then one lazy morning, I ignored this ritual and voila, the train ran perfectly.[^] As to the international status of Vito "the Hit," I'm afraid P.I. Doyle is previously engaged in locating the whereabouts of one Nick in West Wales. Perhaps Sergeant Preston of the Yukon Territory (C.R.M.P.) has connections in Fairbanks? Poisonally, I wouldn't go there in a Centurion battle tank, if ya knows'whad'I'mean? Hmmm, excursion trains? The brochures I've perused for the "Oriental, American, Rocky Mountain, Napa Valley" et al. are out of my league, unless I sold the Ranch. The Ghan of Austrailia spans the Continent at over 1,000 miles and from the austere landscape I viewed on the Travel Channel, boooring! There are merits to rail traveling among passengers actually going somewhere as opposed to the glitzy country club crowd going nowhere.[tdn] Rob and Doug I haven't yet caught up with the Steam # 29 or the Van Horne posts, something to look forward to, however. Okay, my time is up, so Boris give her a bang for a parting round. Gadfrey, why is he chasing Awk?[:(!] See ya's soon.

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:21 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

In keeping with the PRR theme for the day.

Pennsylvania
(PRR)
Streamlined Dome Cars
By Al

The PRR began operating a streamlined train between Chicago and Miami every third day beginning December 19, 1940. This train was named the SOUTH WIND a seven car coach streamliner like its counterparts IC and FEC introduced at the same time between Chicago and Miami.
Between the FEC DIXIE FLAGLER and IC CITY OF MIAMI along with the PRR owned SOUTH WIND daily coach streamliner service was instituted between Terminal Cities Chicago and Miami. Only the FEC tracks between Jacksonville and Miami hosted all three trains.
The SOUTH WIND was a seven car Coach streamliner built new for the service by Budd and painted in the PRR Tuscan Red defeating the purpose of buying a stainless steel train. The original seven car train consist follows:

6700 Baggage 16-Crew Dormitory 18-Seat Coach

4022 60-Revenue Seat Coach

4023 60-Revenue Seat Coach

4518 48-Seat Dining Car

4020 60-Revenue Seat Coach

4021 60-Revenue Seat Coach

1126 Kitchen 16-Seat Dining 35-Seat Lounge Observation

Following WW II the PRR added a second consist of the SOUTH WIND and added streamlined sleeping cars to both.
When it was learned that IC rival CITY OF MIAMI was going to lease Dome sleeper for the winter of 1959 the PRR decided to do the same to the SOUTH WIND consists.
The story for the Pennsylvania was similar to the IC except the PRR operated the leased NP Vista-Dome Sleeping cars in full NP colors, they never repainted any of the leased cars into PRR Tuscan red, they were assigned to the SOUTH WIND operating every other day between Chicago and Miami.
The first winter the PRR leased a pair of the Vista-Dome sleeping cars SP&S 306 and NP 309 was 1959.
After that winter the NP was unable to lease out dome sleepers due to traffic demands on the NORTH COAST LIMITED. It would be four years before dome sleepers returned to the SOUTH WIND consists in 1963 they leased SP&S 306 and NP 307, the same two cars returned for the winter of 1964. In 1965 it was CB&Q 304 and NP 307. In 1966 SP&S 306 returned along with NP 307. For the final year of leasing Vista-Domes for the winter 1967 SP&S 306 and NP 310 were the selected pair.
These became the only Domes to operate on the PRR.

TTFN Al
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:05 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Three
first Posted: 03 Feb 2006, page 237

Pennsylvania Railroad




Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Locale: Chicago and St. Louis to New York City and Washington, DC

Reporting marks: PRR

Dates of operation: 1846 – 1968

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


The Pennsylvania Railroad (AAR reporting mark PRR) was an American railroad existing 1846–1968, after which it merged into Penn Central Transportation. Commonly referred to as the Pennsy, the company was headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The company's symbol was a keystone (Pennsylvania's symbol) with the letters PRR intertwined inside it. When colored, it was bright red with silver-grey edges and lettering (although it also appears in metal leaf outline on a wooden background on station benches).

The PRR was the largest railroad by traffic and revenue in the US throughout its 20th century existence and for a long while was the largest publicly traded corporation in the world. The corporation still holds the record for the longest continual dividend history, over 100 years of never missing an annual shareholder payment.

Like the Reading Railroad, the PRR served Atlantic City, New Jersey; one of the four railroad squares in the board game Monopoly is called Pennsylvania Railroad.

Standard Railroad of the World

The Pennsylvania Railroad, as the "standard railroad of the world", also strove for an air of permanence, decorating its railroad stations with symbols of itself. For a long time the PRR called itself the Standard Railroad of the World, meaning that it was the standard to which all other railroads aspired, the "gold standard". For a long time that was literally true; the railroad had an impressive lists of firsts, greatests, biggests and longests. The PRR was the first railroad to rid itself of wooden-bodied passenger cars in favor of the much safer steel-bodied cars. It led the way in many safety and efficiency improvements over the years. This advantage lessened as the years progressed, and the PRR eventually abandoned the use of the phrase.

The Pennsylvania Railroad was standard in another way, too - it was an early proponent of standardization. While other railroads used whatever was to hand or available, the Pennsylvania tested and experimented with solutions until they could decide on one, and then made it standard across the whole company. Other railroads bought locomotives and railroad cars in small lots, taking whatever was available from manufacturers at the time. The PRR produced huge numbers of standardised designs. This gave the railroad a feel of uniformity and greatly reduced costs. The PRR was also an early adopter of standard liveries and color schemes.

History

The eastern part of the PRR's main line was built by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as part of the Main Line of Public Works, a railroad and canal corridor across the state. The system opened in 1834, consisting of the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad from Philadelphia west to Columbia on the Susquehanna River, a canal from Columbia to Hollidaysburg, the Allegheny Portage Railroad from Hollidaysburg to Johnstown, and another canal from Johnstown to the terminus in Pittsburgh. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad had one inclined plane at each end; the Allegheny Portage Railroad had ten.

The Pennsylvania Railroad Company was chartered by the Pennsylvania legislature on April 13, 1846. Construction began in 1847 and the first section opened from Harrisburg west to Lewistown on September 1, 1849 (including the original Rockville Bridge across the Susquehanna River). Further extensions opened to McVeytown on December 24, Mount Union on April 1, 1850, Huntingdon on June 10, and Duncansville (west of Hollidaysburg) on September 16, 1850, taking it to a connection with the Allegheny Portage Railroad on the east side of the Allegheny Ridge. On the other side of the ridge, the main line opened from Conemaugh (on the Portage Railroad east of Johnstown) west to Lockport on August 25, 1851. On December 10, 1851, sections opened from Lockport west to Beatty (west of Latrobe) and from Pittsburgh east to Brinton, with a temporary stagecoach transfer between via the Southern Turnpike and a short turnpike branch built to Beatty. Part of that gap was filled on July 15, 1852, from Brinton east to Radebaugh, and on November 29 the full line was completed, forming the first all-rail route between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

Plane Number 1 of the Portage Railroad was bypassed on April 1, 1852. Other planes began to be bypassed by the New Portage Railroad, completed in 1856, but on February 15, 1854 the PRR's new line opened, leaving the old one on the east side of the ridge in Altoona and running west via the Horseshoe Curve and Gallitzin Tunnel, only using a short portion of the old Portage Railroad near South Fork and a longer adjacent section of New Portage Railroad. A reciprocal trackage rights agreement made March 18, 1854allowed the PRR to use that section for free.

On March 21, 1849 the PRR contracted with Eagle Line, primarily a steamboat company, for through service over the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad. The PRR obtained trackage rights over the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad, opened in 1838, on April 21, providing a route from Harrisburg to the Philadelphia and Columbia at Dillerville, just west of Lancaster. On September 1 the first section of the PRR opened, with all arrangements in place for service from Philadelphia to Lewistown. On December 20, 1860 the PRR formally leased the line west of Dillerville, renamed the Harrisburg, Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad in 1855.

In 1853 the PRR surveyed the Lancaster, Lebanon and Pine Grove Railroad from Philadelphia west via Phoenixville to Salunga on the Portsmouth, Mount Joy and Lancaster Railroad. This was done in order to show the state that the PRR was willing to build its own alignment around the Philadelphia and Columbia. On July 31, 1857, the PRR bought the whole Main Line of Public Works. The Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad was integrated into its system. Most of the New Portage Railroad, just completed the previous year at a cost of $2.14 million, was abandoned, while short sections became local branches. The canals were abandoned, and short sections were filled and covered by rails. In 1904 the New Portage Railroad east of the Gallitzin Tunnels (through the "Muleshoe Curve") was reopened as a freight bypass line.

Access to New York, Baltimore and Washington

In the early 1860s the PRR gained control of the Northern Central Railway, giving it access to Baltimore along the Susquehanna River (via connections at Columbia or Harrisburg). [1]

On December 1, 1871 [2] the PRR leased the United New Jersey Railroad and Canal Companies, which included the original Camden and Amboy Railroad from Camden, across the Delaware River from Philadelphia, to South Amboy, across Raritan Bay from New York City, as well as a newer line from Philadelphia to Jersey City, much closer to New York, via Trenton. Track connection in Philadelphia was made via the United Companies' Connecting Railway and the jointly-owned Junction Railroad.

The PRR's Baltimore and Potomac Rail Road opened on July 2, 1872 between Baltimore and Washington, but with a required transfer via horse car in Baltimore to the other lines heading north from the city. On June 29, 1873, the Baltimore and Potomac Tunnel through Baltimore was completed, and the PRR initiated the misleadingly-named Pennsylvania Air Line service via the Northern Central Railway and Columbia. This service was 54.5 miles (87.5 km) longer than the old route via the Washington Branch of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad and Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore Railroad, but avoided a transfer in Baltimore. The Union Railroad opened on July 24, 1873, eliminating the transfer, and the PRR contracted with the Union Railroad and the PW&B. New York-Washington trains began using that route the next day, ending Pennsylvania Air Line service. The PRR acquired a majority of PW&B stock in the early 1880s, forcing the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad to build the Baltimore and Philadelphia Railroad to keep its Philadelphia access.

Low-grade lines

Around 1900, the PRR built several low-grade lines for freight to bypass areas of steep grades. These included the following:

• 1892 - Trenton Branch and Trenton Cut-Off Railroad from Glen Loch east to Morrisville (not only a low-grade line but a long-distance bypass of Philadelphia)

• 1892 - Waverly and Passaic Railroad (finished by the New York Bay Railroad) from Waverly, New Jersey to Kearny


• 1904 - reopening of the New Portage Railroad from the Gallitzin Tunnels east to New Portage Junction, then continuing north over the Hollidaysburg Branch to Altoona

• 1906 - Philadelphia and Thorndale Branch from Thorndale east to Glen Loch

• 1906 - Atglen and Susquehanna Branch from Harrisburg via the Northern Central Railway south to Wago Junction, then east to Parkesburg

The Pennsylvania and Newark Railroad was incorporated in 1905 to build a low-grade line from Morrisville, Pennsylvania to Colonia, New Jersey. It was never completed, but some work was done in the Trenton area, including bridge piers in the Delaware River. North of Colonia, the alignment was going to be separate, but instead two extra tracks were added to the existing line. Work was suspended in 1916.

Penn Central merger

On February 1, 1968 the PRR merged with arch-rival New York Central to form the Penn Central. The ICC required that ailing New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad be added in 1969. Penn Central declared bankruptcy in June, 1970.

Successors

Penn Central rail lines were split between Amtrak (Northeast Corridor and Keystone Corridor) and Conrail in the 1970s. After the breakup of Conrail in 1999, the portion which had formerly been PRR territory largely became part of the Norfolk Southern Railway.

Timeline

• 1916 PRR adopts new motto, "Standard Railroad of the World".

• 1916 First I1s 2-10-0 "Decapod" locomotive completed.

• 1916 A5s 0-4-0 and B6sb switching locomotives introduced.

• 1918 PRR stock bottoms at $40¼ due largely to Federal railroad control, lowest since 1877.

• 1918 Emergency freight routed through New York Penn Station and the Hudson tunnels at night by the USRA to relieve congestion.

• 1918 N1s 2-10-2 locomotives introduced for Lines West.

• 1968-02-01 Pennsylvania Railroad absorbs New York Central to form the Penn Central.

• August 26, 1999: The United States Postal Service issues 33-cent All Aboard! 20th Century American Trains commemorative stamps featuring five celebrated American passenger trains from the 1930s and 1940s. One of the five stamps features an image of a GG-1 locomotive pulling the Congressional along Pennsy's route between New York and Washington, D.C., and whose slogan was "Every Mile Electrified!"

PRR equipment, and colors & painting

PRR colors and paint schemes were very standardised. Locomotives were painted in a shade of green so dark as to be almost black, called DGLE (Dark Green Locomotive Enamel) but often called Brunswick Green. Underparts were painted true black. Passenger cars were painted Tuscan red, a brick-red shade. Lettering and lining was originally real gold leaf on passenger locomotives and cars, but in the post World War II period became Buff, a light yellow shade of paint. Some electric locomotives and most passenger-hauling diesel locomotives were painted in Tuscan also. Freight cars were painted Freight Car Color, an iron-oxide red.

Trackside, the PRR was virtually alone in its exclusive use of position-light signals.

Steam locomotives

For most of its existence, the PRR pursued a motive power policy of conservatism and standardisation. Almost uniquely among American railroads, the Pennsylvania designed most of its steam locomotive classes itself and built a fair proportion of them in its own Altoona Works - in fact, the PRR is believed to have been the 4th greatest builder of steam locomotives in the United States, after the three largest commercial builders.

Outside builders were, of course, used - the sheer numbers of locomotives the PRR ordered were far greater than its own works could produce. Unlike most roads who left the majority of the decision-making and design to the locomotive builder, giving only a broad specification, the PRR generally used a commercial builder as a subcontractor, building exact replicas of an existing PRR design.

When it needed to use a commercial locomotive builder, the Pennsy favored Philadelphia's Baldwin Locomotive Works over all others. Baldwin was a big PRR customer, for one thing -- its raw materials were delivered by the PRR, and its finished products were shipped over PRR metals also. That the two companies were headquartered in the same city certainly had a bearing - PRR and Baldwin management and engineers knew each other well. The second preference, when both the PRR and Baldwin shops were at capacity, was the Lima Locomotive Works in Lima, Ohio. Only at a last resort, it seems, would the PRR use Alco, the American Locomotive Company, based in Schenectady, New York - serviced by and favorite locomotive supplier to the Pennsy's arch rival, the New York Central Railroad.

The PRR had a definite style that it favored in its locomotives. The square-shouldered Belpaire firebox was a PRR trademark that otherwise found little favor in the United States; almost every PRR locomotive had it. It traded more difficult construction for a greater heating surface and simpler firebox staying. The PRR used track pans extensively to pick up water on the move, so the tenders of their locomotives had a comparatively large proportion of coal (which could not be taken on board while running) compared to water capacity. The PRR was wary of gadgets and its locomotives were not generally festooned with devices; the PRR also favored a neat mounting of such devices when necessary, leaving the lines of the locomotive comparatively clean. Smokebox fronts bore a round locomotive numberboard (freight) or keystone numberboard (passenger) and were otherwise uncluttered except for a headlamp mounted at the top, with a steam-driven turbo-generator behind it. In later years the positions of the two were reversed, since the generator needs more maintenance than the lamp.

The PRR, until its final years, preferred a philosophy of smaller locomotives rather than buying the biggest.

Each class of steam locomotive was assigned a class designation. Early on, this was simply an alphabetical letter, but when these began to run out, the scheme was changed so that each wheel arrangement had its own letter, and different types of the same arrangement were defined by a subsequent number. Subtypes were in turn indicated by a lower-case letter; superheating was designated by a "s" until the mid 1920s, by which time all new locomotives were superheated. Thus, for example, a 'K4sa' class was a 4-6-2 "Pacific" type (K) and of the fourth class of Pacifics ordered by the PRR. It was superheated (s) and was of the first variant type (a) after the original (unlettered). See PRR locomotive classification for details.

Major passenger stations

The PRR built several grand railroad passenger stations in major cities, either alone or in conjunction with other railroads. These architectural marvels served as the hubs for the PRR's extensive passenger service. Many of these stations are still in use today, served by Amtrak as well as regional passenger carriers. See also Pennsylvania Station, the name given to many of them.

Union Station, Washington, DC

Union Station served as a hub for PRR passenger services in the nation's capital, with connections to the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, and Southern Railway. The Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac Railroad provided a link to Richmond, Virginia, about 100 miles to the south, where major north-south lines of the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad and Seaboard Air Line Railroad provided service to the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida.

Penn Station, New York, NY

Penn Station was designed to be a replica of the Baths of Caracalla; it was notable for its enormous railshed and infamous demolition in the railroad's waning years. The station was built in 1910 to provide direct access to Manhattan from New Jersey without having to use a ferry, and was served by the PRR's own trains as well as those of the PRR's subsidiary the Long Island Rail Road. The demolition did not extend to the platforms, or the tracks, or even some of the staircases, however.

Penn Station, Newark, NJ

This Art Deco station was built in the 1930s as part of the Pennsy's Northeast Corridor infrastructure. It still stands, unlike the enormous trainshed of the New York station.

30th Street Station, Philadelphia, PA

In classical grandeur, the 30th Street Station displays its majestic - and traditional - architectural style with its enormous waiting room and its vestibules. The station, in spite of its apparent architectural classicism, was constructed in the early 1930s, when moderne and art deco styles were more popular.

Union Station, Chicago, IL

The Pennsylvania Railroad, along with the Milwaukee Road and the Burlington Route, built Chicago's Union Station, the only of Chicago's old stations to still exist as a train station (the rest of Chicago's operating passenger stations have been substantially remodelled). It was designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White in the Beaux Arts style.

Company officers

Presidents of the Pennsylvania Railroad:

• Samuel V. Merrick (1847–1849)
• William C. Patterson (1849–1852)
• J. Edgar Thomson (1852–1874)
• Thomas A. Scott (1874–1880)
• George B. Roberts (1880–1896)
• Frank Thomson (1897–1899)
• Alexander J. Cassatt (1899–1906)
• James McCrea (1907–1912)
• Samuel Rea (1913–1925)
• William W. Atterbury (1925–1935)
• Martin W. Clement (1935–1948)
• Walter S. Franklin (1948–1954)
• James M. Symes (1954–1960)
• Allen J. Greenough (1960–1968)

Chief Executive Officers of the Pennsylvania Railroad:

• James M. Symes (1960–1963)
• Stuart T. Saunders (1963–1968)

References:

Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society

PRR Chronology - in depth

PRR Corporate History

Railroad History Database

PennsyRR.com - comprehensive PRR facts and history site, comprising multiple individual websites.

prr.railfan.net - contains a lot of Pennsy information, including equipment diagrams, freight car info.

Keystone Crossing: Hobo's Guide to the Pennsy

Atterbury-Bakalar Air Museum (2000), General Atterbury. Retrieved February 21, 2005.

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (2005), RPI: Alumni hall of fame: Alexander J. Cassatt. Retrieved February 22, 2005.

President and Fellows of Harvard College (2004), 20th century great American business leaders - Martin W. Clement. Retrieved February 23, 2005.

White, John H., Jr. (Spring 1986), America's most noteworthy railroaders, Railroad History, Railway and Locomotive Historical Society, 154, p. 9-15.

Pennsylvania Railroad Company Inspection of Physical Property, Board of Directors November 10-11-12, 1948


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
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  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:50 AM


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SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) trolleyboy
Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 00:03:13 (364) Classic Steam #29 – The Bay of Quinte Railway

(2) EricX2000 Eric Posted: 26 Jun2006, 00:15:10 (364) Comments

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 00:16:05 (364) Monday’s Info & 23-Post Summary

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 06:41:14 (364) Acknowledgments & Comments

(5) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 07:49:11 (364) Erie & Erie Lackawana streamlined sleeping cars

(6) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 08:03:26 (364) Gulf Coast Report!

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(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Jun 2006, 20:32:19 (364) Comments ‘n Traction Pix!

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