"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[wanswheel]

http://nkphts.org/sounds/straub587_765.mp3

Who's here at this hour? Oh yeah, Leon. I need a Playbill to keep track of the cast of characters in this joint. The only bar in the world that serves both halibut on short notice and prune danishes. Thanks Nick for impelling Boris to break into the frozen food warehouse, and to the lass I'll call Lovely Rita, for bringing the tray of goodies over. Thanks for reading Tom, Nick, Rob, and John! if I knew you were in the neighborhood I wouldn't have typed all this to burden the eyeballs, but glad to see you. I did also quick e-mail to Ted and hope he's not mad at me for calling you hobbyists nuts. But now, as a nightcap to put me to sleep, and it will, here's more from the CV story:

"Once organized, the Canadian National Railway -- parent of the Central Vermont -- sought for a competent executive, worthy of the longest single railroad in the world. It found such a man in the late Sir Henry Thorton, who had just retired as general manager of the Great Eastern Railway of England. Thorton, like his predecessor, Hays, approached Canada by way of the railroads in the United States, only his alma mater was the Pennsylvania, instead of the Wabash. But he too was a product of the Middle West. Born in Logansport, Indiana, son of an officer of the Pennsylvania, he came easily and naturally into railroading as a profession. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania and immediately went into the service of the Pennsylvania Railroad, rising to be a general superintendent of that system. When, in connection with the development of its passenger terminal in the heart of New York City the Pennsylvania acquired the Long Island Railroad, Thorton was sent to that busy short-line road as vice-president and general manager. He showed a regular aptitude in its management...
Overseas, the Great Eastern Railway of England -- also compact and possessing a heavy suburban traffic -- was looking for a capable executive. It had heard of Thorton and took a bold step and sent to America for him. He went to England at once and on January 1, 1914, began service as the operating head of the Great Eastern. He was already beginning to do radical things with that conservative old property when, at the end of July of that year England was suddenly plunged into war with Germany. Within a matter of months, Thorton was given a far bigger job than the management of Great Eastern. He was brevetted a brigadier-general and placed in charge of the entire rail movement of the British Army on the European continent. Here again, he made a signal success. He was knighted and acclaimed as one of the outstanding railroaders of Europe.
But that was all. Things were happening to the railroads of Great Britain. Fifty-two of them were being gathered into four dominant systems. That meant a great lessening of rail executives. Thorton, with all his ability, was an outlander. The Great Eastern ceased to be -- it became part of the London and North Eastern -- and Henry W. Thorton was out of a job. But not for long. The Canadians had long since heard of him. They quickly reached across the Atlantic and brought an American back -- to America. He went at once to the bulky Montreal offices of the new Canadian National (formerly the Grand Trunk) and slipped into the office and chair of Charles M. Hays -- and was a railroader comparable with him. Against much interference, political and otherwise, he began the fabrication of a railroad that would be competent to battle for traffic against the all-powerful Canadian Pacific, which was no small task.
The Central Vermont portion of the property which, for obvious reasons, never merged into the Canadian government-owned and operated Canadian National, attracted Thorton's keen interest and supervision. He rode on it often and saw to it that the road was well maintained and well operated. When some of its officers proposed the rather audacious step of running a through de luxe night train over it from Montreal and Ottawa to Washington, by way of St. Albans, White River Junction, Springfield and New Haven, the idea found instant and warm support from Thorton."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, that train, The Montrealer-Washingtonian, was my grandfather's train.
Discontinued in 1966 and re-instated by Amtrak in 1972 after a grass-roots campaign lead by my father. It no longer makes it all the way to Montreal, but it did put Vermont on the Amtrak map and today it survives as The Vermonter.

NEW ENGLAND GOVERNORS CONFERENCE
PUBLIC SERVICE AWARD
TO
JOSEPH V. MACDONALD, LOYAL SON OF NEW ENGLAND
ST. ALBANS, VERMONT
OUR SINCERE GRATITUDE FOR YOUR SUCCESSFUL EFFORTS
TO RESTORE
NEW YORK - MONTREAL RAIL PASSENGER SERVICE
VIA THE CONNECTICUT RIVER VALLEY
SEPTEMBER 15, 1972

Governor Francis Sargent, Commonwealth of Massachusetts
Governor Frank Licht, State of Rhode Island
Governor Kenneth M. Curtis, State of Maine
Governor Thomas J. Meskill, State of Connecticut
Governor Walter R. Peterson, State of New Hampshire
Governor Deane C. Davis, State of Vermont

[jlampke]

Evenin' Tom, Nick, et al.... I'll have a double Absolute & grapefruit juice for a good pre-dinner buzz, with a bowl of that clam chowder. And please, a round for the rest of the boyz in the house and two-bits for Herr Wurlitzer. Five for a quarter you say? How about
"Let it Be" (Beatles) "Mind Games" (John Lennon) Green, Green Grass of Home (Tom Jones) Sitting on the Dock of the Bay (Otis Redding) & Downtown (Petula Clark)?

Sorry for the extended absence.... Actually, as you observed earlier, I do stop by nearly every day. As I pointed out way back, I usually just slip in & out quietly. Plus, me usually being on the Western side of the Pacific means that you gents are sawing wood while I'm visiting Our Place after work hours. We're actually headed East now to WA. Still a couple time zones out. I logged on at about 1430 today and read back through some of the previous pages. It's 1900 here now. (I see Rob stepped in.) Evenin' Rob. Tom, put whatever Rob's drinkin' on my tab, please.

Well, next year it'll be 30 years since I first enlisted in the Navy. Having said that, you boyz should understand why I don't have many railroading experiences to contribute to the thread. (Does the steamer at Knott's Berry Farm count? [?]) I'm not prepared to risk general ridicule [D)] in the presence of the "Big Four". And I don't mean Huntington, Standford, Crocker & Hopkins; I mean Tom, Ted, Nick & Rob.
As per your suggestion, I sent a "Get well" e-mail to Ted.
Dave; Very interesting item on the snow sheds. [tup] Thank you. I would like to get up there some day to look around and contemplate the history of the place. I heard that the UP removed the rails from Donner Pass after they took over the SP. Is that true? [?] Sad if it's true. [:(] Being from the West, I relate mostly to and am especially interested in the Western railroads. (SP, CP, UP, NP, WP, etc.), and their late steam operations.
Doug; The articles on the SP Fireman were great. [tup] Thank you. I have been to Dunsmuir and up & down through that area. A couple years ago I drove to Delta and walked down the tracks to see if I could figure out exactly where they re-routed the line when they built Shasta Dam. Was by myself that day. Just looked around and tried to imagine what America, life and railroading must've been like back then. I'd like to get pictures of some of the submerged SP tunnels some time when the lake is way down.
Talking to Doyle M. one day last summer, he commented that a steam locomotive at speed was a machine trying to tear itself apart.

KENNETT Established in 1884 as a railroad town beside
the Sacramento River when the California & Oregon
Railroad extended its tracks from Redding to Delta.
The place was first used as an emergency brake-testing
station and was named by the railroad for Squire
Kennett, a railroad stockholder and financier. Became
a copper mining boom town that once boasted a
population of over 5000. Was home to the famous
Diamond Bar Saloon; the offices of the Justice of the
Peace were located in the saloon building basement.
The town was home to an Opera House. The Kennett Post
Office was established in 1886 and discontinued in
1942. Goldminer Charles Butters arrived in
approximately 1885 and began purchasing land. He
owned over 6000 acres by 1905 and began building the
town complete with roads, churches, and schools. The
town suffered a devastating fire in 1904. In 1905
electricity arrived. In 1907 the Mammoth Copper
Company built a copper smelter whose thick fumes
sometimes enveloped the whole town in a haze of bluish
smoke. The smelter operated continuously until 1919
when it was shut down by court order, operated again
briefly in 1924, and dismantled in 1925. Was the 2nd
largest town in Shasta County in 1910 and the most
prosperous mining town in the West. In 1911 Kennett
became incorporated and in 1930 was disincorporated.
The remains of Kennett lie in the deepest part of
Shasta Lake just north of the dam.

KENNETT DAM What Shasta Dam was originally unofficially called.

KENNETT FERRY Crossed the Sacramento River. 20
Greek workers drowned in the Sacramento in 1907 when
it tilted up and they slid into the water while on
their way to work. [Cottonwood Enterprise 3- 16-1907]

KENNETT ITEMIZER Newspaper. First printing was in
1909. Editor was Charles Hodkins. See Newspapers.
[Cottonwood Enterprise 8-21-1909]

KENNETT, SQUIRE Stockholder in the California & Oregon Railroad.
Kennett was named for him by the railroad.

There is what is known as the Diversion Tunnel through Shasta Dam. It was first used to divert the SP line while the dam was being built until the new line opened, then it was used to divert the river. I've been in it. Blackened from soot from about midway up to the top. The bottom 1/2 was washed clean while the river was diverted through it.

Tom; Who drives that fancy blue 'vette I always see parked in front of Our Place?[?][tup]
Speaking of driving, I'll take another double, and another round for the boyz, please.
BTW, please do add King of the Road to the listing in the juke box. I remember as a little kid seeing it performed on the Lawrence Welk Show. Great song.

Well, our last stop was Guam. Miserable humid place. I sure welcome the cooler climate as we proceed North. Exactly as you said; I never feel more alive than in the cold and especially so with the snow. It's actually kind of nice down in the engine room right now.

Mike; Very interesting item on C. M. Hayes, the GT and the Southern New England RR. [tup]

Well gents, that's it for now.

John

[trolleyboy]

Good evening gents. Tom I'll grab a Keith;s and Nick the menue looks quite good so I have to have a heaping helping of the chowder, and even though it was not on the official menu I will partake in some halibut as well ( best fish ever created IMHO )


Tom & Nick Yup the big boys do need to learn, Big trains single track and sharpe cuvres and gradients don't mix.

I too have had contact with Ted so it's good to know that the supply of prune danishes I order will not go to waste[tup] [:D]


Tom Excellent nostalgia piece as per usual, nice that Pete was able to jump in as well, I do like hearing about how things are done on the t'other side of the pond.

BTW your email was recieved and responded to [tup][tup]

CM3 Wonderfull bit on the B&M, I don't suppose that in your formitive years you were able to snao many colour pictures of those beautifull red and gold loco's plying their trade.I did not know that the GG1's had steam generators, you see even old dogs can learn new tricks on occation [tup][:-^]


Mike Great CV/GTW info, Mr Hayes was Canada's lesser known rail guy. I figure that had he lived he would have pulled it off instead his successors and indeed the Candian Northern guys never could get it right. To much money wasted on the ill fated Grand Trunk pacific and the CnoR's transcontininetal lines. Still had both companies not fallen on hard times in the late teens early twenties CNR would not have been formed. I suppose in an alternate reality without the rival transcontinenal CPR may have become the biggest road NOB.


Pete To attempt to answer your steam generator question. I seem to remember reading about Palace cars using steam heat in the late 1880's early 1890's. I could be wrong so hopefully Al, guru [bow] of passenger trains can shed the light to the rest of us beleavers. [swg]

Many Canadian railways used steam generator cars to heat cars when suitable boiler equiped loco's were unavailable or before HEP units became the norm. I know that CNR had several cars purpose built, tghey were painted like express reefers but wer a box car containing the steam heat units. ONR amd Go and Via also had rebuilt B units as steam gen later hep units for passenger train heating.

Well folks have a good one.

Rob

[nickinwestwales]

Yes-string lining-thats the expression I was looking for-this restriction may have wide reaching consequences,I understand C.N.450 &451 ( North Bay-Toronto & return ) reg. runs up to 130 cars,so there`s one train that will have to double up in both directions.
Inevitable consequence of building single track main lines I guess,throw as much traffic as you can out of the yard on any given train and build very long passing sidings-RED P-you`re on the `sharp end` here -any thoughts ? later,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

SPECIAL FOR jlampke

Been seeing you browsing the bar 'n grill several times the past few days .... What's up, John [?] Haven't seen you at the bar for a couple of weeks or so. You're most welcome 'round here. [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Gents!

First and foremost a Theodorebear Ted report: Received an Email from our Manager and he’s having a difficult time battling the illness which has put him out of commission recently. He’s on the mend, but just not up to par – a slow go. He shall return! [tup][tup][tup]

It was a glorious day today with the snow, Juneau, the snow, and well, the snow! [swg]

To the acknowledgments:

ftwNSengineer P
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 12:48:50

That’s a “grind” in anyone’s book. Not something to be envied or worth repeating. But then again, we do what we do for the means to survive in this world, wouldn’t you agree [?]

Thanx for the station info …. Also looking forward to your pix for Sunday Photo Posting Day!

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 16:53:41

I’m really enjoying the information on those ferries and the rail trips in Ireland and Great Britain. Sure would love to share those experiences. How many rooms in that house of yours in Rugby [?] [swg] Perhaps we should schedule a Rendezvous AT YOUR HOUSE! The neighborhood would never be the same! [swg]

Tex the Armadillo and snow don’t seem to mix. He’s rather like a turtle on ice, if you follow my thoughts. <grin> Now, why would you be thinking of Tex and snow [?] Hmmmmmmm.

Nah – blame it on the Gremlins – always works for me when ‘puter problems crop up. [swg]

Figured you’d like that NOSTALGIA piece for this day! [tup]

wanswheel Mike
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 18:05:46

That line is one I’ve used for years – just for the halibut! [yeah] Fish ‘n Chips are ready and just flag down one of our gals and she’ll bring you a tray. [tup]

Roger Miller WAS indeed the “King” – of the road! [yeah] We’ve got that on our Juke – just punch M12.

Nice “stuff” on the CV history ……. Was particularly taken by the info on Charles Hays and the Titanic. Sobering, eh [?]

EDon6400 Ed
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 18:47:55

My comments above apply ……. Come back and we’ll “officially” welcome you! [tup]

nickinwestwales Nick
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 19:37:54 and 20:11:48

Great menu for Nick’s Picks! Don’t know how you do it, but one could easily become accustomed to eating ‘round here every night! Good thing we only serve [dinner] dinner three nights a week!

Emails received and responded to! Pix “good to go” for Sunday Photo Posting Day! Appreciate your getting them to me before week’s end – helps a lot with the processing time by avoiding the “crunch.” [tup]

Thanx for the drinks …. As always. [swg]

Beatles on the Juke “works” for me – we’ve got ‘em all! That’s the beauty of Herr Wurlitzer undergoing the “digitalizing” procedure. Even have the Dave Clark Five and their Greatest Hits …. [tup] Try, Glad All Over – Catch Us If You Can and Bits and Pieces [yeah]

Check out this URL on the latest regarding those CN derailments in BC: http://www.cbc.ca/bc/story/bc_cn-restrictions20051207.html


Okay, that’s it for me this fine night. Leon the Night Man has the bar at 9 PM …..

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



REMINDERS, especially for those who Post only once per day or on occasion:

(1) Check to see if you are getting the MOST CURRENT info before Posting.
(2) Check to see if anyone has Posted during the time yours was being prepared.
(3) Stick around a few minutes after Posting, just to ensure that someone may want to “talk” to you or has Posted.
(4) It’s a long wait until your next visit and perhaps by then some pertinent info directed your way will be missed.

[siberianmo]

Yeah - it's fun being Boss! [swg]

[nickinwestwales]

Hey boss-rule 3 is a bit sneaky [swg] n

[nickinwestwales]

RED P-think we may be working at cross-purposes here-I`m talking about the stub tracks 1;:-between Calhoun & Harrison & 2:-just below the scissor crossing-try another J&C-it will all resolve itself soon enough,[tup]nick

[siberianmo]

Tweeeeeeeeeeeet, Tweeeeeeeeeet, Rules Violation, Rules Violation. Repeat offender. Repeat offender.

Rule #1 - entering the bar without greeting the barkeep!
Rule #2 - failure to order drink or food.
Rule #3 - signature graphic occupies more space than Post!

Boris Ring the bell three times - that's three rounds, one for each infraction to be placed on ftwNSengineer's P bar bill.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Whoops,just refreshed-MIKE-how do you prefer your halibut-not a posted dish but we always go the extra mile for valued customers ( Boris-go get some halibut-I dont care,use your initiative-just get the d**m fish-O.K )-Had no idea about the link between the Titanic and the S.N.E,had a long running affection for the idea after reading description of Marty McGuirk`s H.0. S.N.E system in M.R special a few years back (recomended reading if you are a fan,will look it out )-nice one[tup]
EDON6400[#welcome]aboard,theres loads of good stuff inbetween the weirdness,stick around,it can take you in interesting directions [tup][^][tup]--jlampke-I see you there with RED P,stop in and take a drink,hardly any of us bite [swg]
O.K,time to hit the galley & make with the rock`n`roll--25 years to the day since John Lennon got turned into an eternal flame so how about a Beatles night on the juke-She Loves You,Hard Days Night,Dizzy Miss Lizzy,Eight Days a Week,Yer Blues,-there`s my first five-any takers-?
sleep well one and all,see you tomorrow,nick[C=:-)]

[red p]

Nick No, the 2 large gaps you saw behind the station are where the platforms were.
P

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow tipplers and otherwise,how are we all this fine day ?
Before anything else,I bear glad tidings from MANAGER SIR THEODORE-mails have been exchanged and it seems he has been hit with a second bout of bronchial & associated problems. He wishes us all well,is taking his medicine and will rejoin us as soon as he is able -GET WELL SOON MATE [tup][^][tup].
[4:-)]TOM,ten green bottles for me please as I`m cooking tonight,keep your own glass full on my ticket (you know you deserve it ! ) and set up the boys please,could you hide the bar snacks,we`ve a lot of fi***o move this night [swg]- you should have a couple of E-Mails on your desk,one of which is clearly redundant....Thanks for the British Railways promo piece-[tup]-I can hear it being read out on the wireless by one of those impeccably polished B.B.C announcers-as noted by PETE this was their first season as a both an integrated national as opposed to independant multi-regional system and as a state-owned and run outfit,how they went from those heady early days to the s*d you indifference of their last days is one of our great shames-the mention of B.E.A. ( and by inference B.O.A.C ) dates it for sure-happy memories of early sixties childhood...( being 4 years old and less than 3 ft tall when high heels and mini skirts came into fashion has had a lasting effect on me......[^][^][^]
BAR CHANDLER ROB-Hi there mate-have a warmer on me-we have some very nice Woods`s rum in stock for PETE just now-R.E. derailments-just guessing here but assume C.N.`s argument is that derailments caused by lateral stresses going through curves caused by excessive train lengths,thus reduce train length and reduce drag factor--surely mid-train helpers (which I understand B.C.Rail were fans of ) would resolve this..as to O.N.R derailments,these seem to happen at yard throats for the main part (Cochrane a couple of times & Kapuskasing also if memory serves)-perhaps this tells it`s own story ?
CM3-Will you take a shot with your coffee ?-If not theres one in for you on the way home[tup]-nice call on the tunes [^]-We used to have a rockabilly band working out of the local R.A.F. station a few years ago that did a brilliant version of mystery train (Bass man `riding` the bull-fiddle,drummer walking round the room playing double time on a marching snare,2 guitarists playing genuine Chet Atkins `Country Gent `guitars that they flew out to Nashville to buy at auction-the real raw deal-[^]-brilliant !)
Nice touch as ever with the B+M piece,I can smell the exhaust [tup][^][tup]
RED P-Well there`s a nice quick turn-around- have a jack`n`coke or two before you get your head down,they`ll help you sleep [swg]-anything interesting happen out in the real world ?-got wannabees here who need to know ( well,me anyway )-plan looks good by the way-what are the dead-end roads near the station building for-engine parking,mail & express,local passenger ?-difficult to guess without scale.
WOLFMANPETE-Awright mate-pint of Bathams coming right up,I`ll get with the plan fish-wise directly. OK,back again-pix of Wexford Town & Broad Gauge repro sent to steamed proprieter by fast zeppelin (the best sort[swg]) mail
R.E.steam heat on C.I.E,all the trains I saw (around Rosslare & district only,to be sure ) had mk1 full brakes attached-presume these were steam heat vans,not sure what the power is classified as but check pix album-would welcome clarity here-have heard them described as `dogbones`-appear to be G.M export model
Right,enough idle chit-chat,lets have a look in the fridge & see whats for supper tonight:-

Well,the soup kettle`s are perking nicely,-looks like we have Clam Chowder(properly thickened with crumbled Jacobs Table Water crackers) and traditional ****`a`Leekie plus a frankly experimental mixed won-tons in sweet chilli & lemon grass broth

moving on we have:-
Flame-grilled Swordfish steaks with mustard,tarragon & butter sauce
Darne of Cleddau Bass poached in rum,lime & ginger
Deep fried Whitebait with mixed dips

And for traditionalists:-
North Sea Cod & Haddock,in a beer batter
South coast Plaice & sole in flour,egg & breadcrumbs
Battered sausages,saveloys,black & white puddings,Mars Bars (A Scots eccentricity) apple & pineapple fritters,
assorted pies & pasties

all with large or small fries-
also available,fries with beans or curry sauce
pickled eggs,onions,pigs feet,otters noses,mixed roadkill & olives are in jars on the counter,please help yourselves

[siberianmo]

SPECIAL RESPONSE TO EDon6400

I see this is your first Post on the Forums and I'm pleased that you chose our thread to start off.

We are a rather unique thread (site) in that we acknowledge one another, try to be inclusive when we Post (submit comments) and remain on topic (Classic Trains) most of the time - well some of the time! [swg]

Your Profile doesn't really tell us very much about you - but feel free to check us out. Just "click" on the cyber name shown to the left of the Posts (comments) and you'll see a block of information come up. That's how you get to learn a bit about those participating on the Forums and individual threads.

I won't go into all of the details concerning "Our" Place at this point - other than to say, read page one - then check out the last 10 or 12 pages. That should give you a pretty good idea of how things are "run" around here.

If you find us to your liking, we'll welcome you and of course buy your first drink here at the cyber bar 'n grill! By the by - your vote WOULD HAVE counted had it been cast back in April of 2005. Again - read page one.

We have two guys from Ontario who frequent this bar - one is a Charter Member meaning he has been with us since we started on April 12th, 2005. I'm a long time VIA Rail traveler and advocate. So I'd say we're off to a great start!

Check us out and hope to see you soon.

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

re: coalminor3 addage to beer and wv.

Drove through WV in the late 70's. Saw some railroading and great scenery. Went on to Penn and passed a place called Throope PA. It has/had a place called "Throope College of Beer Knowledge", a little hole in the wall/hill.

I dabble in Classics, 1949 Marx NYC set, 1952 2037&6466wx with a whole asst of cars from Lionel and K-Line. Also have Mod era MTH locos and MRC power.

#1 looks like THE place. Yeh I know my vote doesn't count.

Love the VIA variety show. I live in Oshawa ON and we see just about every thing that VIA has pass through.

Again. [8D]

[wanswheel]

Hi Tom and gang, is it time for fish & chips yet? I'll perch myself right here then, just for the halibut.
There was no Blue Bird on the Nickel Plate, of course it was the Wabash. There is a contemporary tourist excursion train Blue Bird at Waterville, Ohio, on old "Cloverleaf" Nickel Plate tracks.
Interesting link to NYC&StL historical society Tom recommended on page 154. I like these pictures:
http://nkphts.org/images/nkppaper/1948timetablecover.jpg
http://nkphts.org/pictures/nkphts/171.html
And the sound clips of steam engines are cool too.
Doug thanks for typing those stories. Good stuff.
Coal3 thanks for pouring all that cold water on 1927.
P, that Baker Street Station is a gem of architechure. As you know it was PRR before it became a restaurant.
Re: Elvis. IMHO "The King" was Roger Miller. IIRC 3rd boxcar midnight train, destination Bangor, Maine

Here's more from Hunger. (Excerpts from CV history by Edward Hungerford)

"One new name appears on the list of incorporators of the re-organized Central Vermont Railway - Charles M. Hays. It is the name of one of one of the very great, one of the most brilliant railroad operators that America has ever known. Starting his career in the old roundhouse of the Wabash at Decatur, Illinois, a training school for many and many another outstanding railroader, he swept quickly upwards until he came to be the president and guiding force of the highly important Grand Trunk Railway of Canada. From the beginning, planned to be an important railroad and so to justify its pretentious name, the Grand Trunk had, for years, suffered greviously from absentee and incompetent management from its London offices. Now, at last, it was freed from long-distance control. Hays had tremendous plans for it. He was seemingly the first railroader who had come in to Canada without an awesome regard, if not downright fear, of the all-powerful Canadian Pacific crowd. He planned to expand Grand Trunk far beyond the dreams of its founders. There would be a new transcontinental across all Canada, starting at Quebec and extending in a great circle, many miles to the north of Montreal and Ottowa on its way to Lake Superior and the Pacific coast.
In the east, Hayes saw a magnificent oportunity in the struggling Central Vermont Railroad. It was he who dictated the re-organization of the property and planned the extension of its southernmost flank. He was not satisfied with New London as the south terminal of his new acquisition. There was little or no freight originating in New London, what came there , came there almost wholly by a not entirely satisfactory steamship service from New York.
But Providence
Providence was not only a seaport of importance, and the second city in all New England in population, but a manufacturing and industrial center of real parts. It was served by but one railroad and some of its citizens felt that service was inadequate. When Hays and his agents approached these with tentative suggestions for an extension of the Central Vermont into the Rhode Island Plantations, they were received with open arms. Providence prepared to do its full part in getting the new road adequate waterside terminals, and the work was actually begun upon the Southern New England, to reach with a junction of Central Vermont (as well as Boston and Albany) at Palmer, Massachusetts, south and east, some seventy-five miles to Providence.
Sheer tragedy struck it, and its parent, the Grand Trunk, in the maiden voyage of the magnificent new White Star liner, Titanic, on her maiden voyage to New York...The blow that sent her reeling in the deep night to the bottom of the Atlantic, fell upon the railroad world as well. Down with the Titanic went one of her most distinguished passengers--Charles M. Hays. The Grand Trunk never recovered from this disaster....The road sunk into desuetude. The first World War ended its career as a separate railroad...
When, in that brief and tragic hour, the life of Charles M. Hays went slipping into the uncharted seas, the life of the Southern New England, which had been his dream-child, went slipping out with him. The man and his pet project died together.
Work on the new railroad stopped at once. Men and teams and machines were withdrawn, almost instantly. it was not resumed. And today, thirty years later, one can still see the giant gashes into the Massachusetts hills, just south and east of Palmer; the half-finished embankments, piers and abutments standing useless and forlorn, in the fields -- all a monument to a great dreamer whose dream was never destined to come into being. The life of the Southern New England was brief and inglorious."

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and can you put me down for some Fish and Chips for later please[tup].

CM3 Thanks for the info on the GG1's steam heat boiler. The first generation of passenger diesels in the U.K. were also fitted with then. When the West Coast Main Line of England Electrification was taking place at the start of the1960's the passenger cars were steam heat only and the new electric locos were not fitted with boilers. Until the cars were fitted for electric heating there were special cars fitted with a boiler which was hauled directly behind the electric loco. This was only needed for a short time but these cars lasted a fair bit longer on the Irish Railway system.

Does any one know when the steam heating of railroad cars was introduced [?].

P Hope you are able to post the Fort Wayne pictures it sounds a busy location[tup].

TOM I have a bit more info on the Holyhead train service. Although it is not possible to get a connection from the Saturday night sailing from Dublin it is possible on the other days. The train departs Holyhead around 1 30 PM but goes to Birmingham not London as it did on my first trip. There seems to be a good service connecting to and from the ferries in the day time. The principle day and night trains between London and Holyhead were named The Irish Mail which was the oldest named train in the world or so I have read. It's first call out and last in was Rugby so was a good way to start our holiday in North Wales although a change was needed as it did not call at the holiday towns on the N. Wales coast. In steam days it was hauled by one of Holyhead shed's 4-6-0 Royal Scot or the 4-6-2 Britannia class locos. The Britannias were one of the very few B.R locos that had a Chime Whistle I can still re-call hearing, as a young lad, the Brit on the Night Mail as I lay in the boarding house bed in Rhyl. Magical stuff.

Great Nostalgia many thanks [tup].Oh for a time machine[sigh]. 1948 was the year the U.K. railways were nationalised and became British Railways. It was also the year of the Locomotive Exchanges when certain classes of locos of the four main companies were tried out on each others main lines hauling normal service trains but with a Dynamometer car behind the loco to assess performance.

I dont know if the TOUR FARES were the fore-runner of the tickets that are now known as the Brit-Rail Passes offering unlimited travel over a certain period. They are known as Railrovers when bought in the U.K. and are still avaliable for certain areas as well as the All-Line one . [^].

My computer problem was the operater not the equipment yesterday.

I'll e-mail TED and how is TEX getting on in the snow[?] PETE.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #40

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the BRITISH RAILWAYS in a 1948 advertisement from my private collection:

. . . . . 25% Reduction IN TOUR FARES . . . . .

. . . . . For Americans Visiting The BRITISH ISLES . . . . .

When planning your British Isles holiday, make a list of all the places you want to see in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Your Travel Agent will be glad to help you prepare your complete individual itinerary. That way you’ll effect substantial savings on planned tour tickets offered by British Railways.

. . . . . . . . . . See More in Britain! . . . . . . . . . .

Naturally, you’ll visit our great cities, our world-famous historic and scenic shrines (all within a day’s train trip from London) . . . but with more time you can enjoy so many equally memorable travel experiences in our less publicized byways. So plan to stay longer – discover for yourself the charm of our villages, countryside and rugged coastline.

. . . . . . . . . . Travel means BRITISH RAILWAYS

TRAINS . . . Swift, comfortable transportation to every corner of the British Isles.

HOTELS . . . 45 hotels associated with British Railways, strategically situated for your tour or business trips.

CROSS-CHANNEL FACILITIES . . . Railway-operated steamer services over a wide variety of routes to Ireland and the Continent. Depend on the all-inclusive travel services of British Railways for every phase of your tour of the British Isles. We suggest you secure your rail transportation, as well as Pullman, cross-channel steamer and hotel reservations before your leave.

British Railways – official agents for air tickets on British European Air Corporation routes in the British Isles.

Write for British Railways – new and amusing booklet, ”WHAT, NO ICE?” – written especially for Americans planning to visit us; as well as the full-color map folder, ”THE BRITISH ISLES” both free upon request to Dept. 25 at any of the offices shown below.

For tickets, reservations and authoritative travel information on the British Isles

CONSULT YOUR LOCAL TRAVEL AGENT or any British Railways office:

. . . . . NEW YORK 20, N. Y., 9 ROCKEFELLER Pl.
. . . . . CHICAGO 3, ILL, 39 So. Lasalle St.
. . . . . LOS ANGELES 14, CAL., 510 W. 6th St.
. . . . . TORONTO, ONT., 69 Younge Street

. . . . . . . . . . BRITISH RAILWAYS . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[red p]

Tom - well my trip was 11 hours up then 10 hours in the dorm before I go called back. then 5 hours home on the pig train.

The track diagram is of Baker St. Station in Fort Wayne, In. Which sits next to the "mike" Diamond where 2 (NW) tracks cross 4 (PRR/PC) tracks..............Impressive!
To make things even more interesting the PRR used a wierd Hamilton Center cab to switch that area,and I do have a picture of it.
For Sunday Picture day (if im in town )I will concentrate on that area.
P

[siberianmo]

G’day Guys!

What a glorious day with the snow fallin’ and predictions of up to 4 inches, perhaps a bit more! [yeah] Juneau the sled dog loves this stuff, and so do I. Never feel more alive than in the cold and especially so with the white stuff.

A thought: We’ve had several instances here at the bar ‘n grill whereby a guy falls ill and we don’t hear from him for perhaps months – as was the case with our Charter Member, CFournier Chris awhile ago.

If Email communications don’t work, what then [?] A guy could pass on to the great cyber space in Ether land, and we’d not know. So, here’s a proposal for those who feel the way I do. Why not send me your phone number – one that you can be reasonably assured to be reached at – and I’ll make a solemn promise to not release it to anyone without your okay. I would use it only under the circumstances whereby a period of time has elapsed with no communications – such as several weeks. Then I’d place a call just to check ….

So, with the aforementioned in mind – let’s all get some Emails out to Theodorebear Ted. (Follow the procedure in the next paragraph if you don’t know how. You’ll just have to scroll back several pages to find his last Post.)

For those who do not have my Email address, just click on my cyber name – go to “contact info” and click on Email. A screen will pop up enabling you to send me a message through the Forums.

Reminder: Tomorrow is the last day to enter our Contest! Also Monday is the day for our Christmas and holiday RR travel Posts in commemoration of ”Our” Place’s 8th month anniversary. Plan to participate!

And finally, there will be a change to the Monday Index – so for those who have followed it, this one coming up will be the LAST of its kind. Much too labor intensive and also I’m not at all certain of its value. No feedback equates to no interest.


On to the acknowledgments:

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 23:54:35

Between what you provided and that from Nick, I have a much better grasp on those ferries. Seats in the bar area are where they should be! [swg] By the map, the trip appears to be one that would take a few hours for sure, using the traditional ferries. Of course talking of the more state of the art vessels, well that’s another thing entirely. Never rode any of those ‘air cushioned’ vessels, and always wondered about ‘em. Probably a heck of a lot more comfortable and easier to maintain the head on one’s brew! [swg] Priorities! Perhaps one day …….

Glad you made it in, and we need to figure out a way to communicate with you more in “real time” than having this “gap” between late night and the next day. Go wireless and high speed! That way more than one can access the web at the same time. Hey – it’s only money. [swg]

trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 00:16:24

Let’s see, Tex the Armadillo has been “used and abused” in an assortment of ways – now a winch! <good grief!>

“Sensory overload” is a good way to put it regarding Fergie’s site and any other thread requiring almost constant attention just to keep pace. That’s why I’m hardly ever away from this thread – don’t have the time, and the inclination is falling off as well. Every now ‘ then ….

I see that CN has been ordered to reduce length of their freights to 80 cars on that stretch of former BC Rail right of way where so many problems have arisen. Amazing how the “big boys” always try to get away with things the little guy wouldn’t dare to try. Such is life.

Good suggestion regarding Ted – check the lead-in to this Post. Also, received your Email and a reply has been sent. Thanx!

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 08:20:21

A round and more quarters for Herr Wurltizer, der Juke! [swg] Thanx! [tup] Still have to come up with an appropriate name for that Pickled Pig’s Feet jar holding the quarters. After all, you’ve paid for it several times over. [yeah]

Now this may really upset some of you guys – but Elvis songs are rather scarce on the Juke. I have invoked “Proprietor Privilege” in that regard. Didn’t care for him back then – still don’t. A couple now ‘n then – but that’s all I can take – and after all, I’m here virtually all of the time! Given that we are approaching Christmas we can tolerate his “Blue Christmas warble …… <ugh>

Really nice diversity with your Post and a good read. Thanx! [tup][tup]

You had indicated that you may not be around tomorrow, so I’ll urge you now to not forget what this coming Monday is! You started this idea for the Christmas RR travels Posts …. Looking for some good stuff from you too!

ftwNSengineer P
Posted: 08 Dec 2005, 10:09:58

That was a rather fast trip, I guess. I’m kinda locked in to thinking of trips in terms of weeks and months. [yeah] I understand the difference between being a RR Engineer and a sailor. Just a mindset that kicks in when someone says they are off on a trip, I think in different measures of time. Glad you’re back!

Nice layout scheme – that should be a sure winner. Where is (was) this particular place in real life [?] I’m into passenger stations, depots and terminals and love the track plans. Appreciate the input – it enlarged nicely as well! [tup][tup]

Later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



REMINDERS, especially for those who Post only once per day or on occasion:

(1) Check to see if you are getting the MOST CURRENT info before Posting.
(2) Check to see if anyone has Posted during the time yours was being prepared.
(3) Stick around a few minutes after Posting, just to ensure that someone may want to “talk” to you or has Posted.
(4) It’s a long wait until your next visit and perhaps by then some pertinent info directed your way will be missed.

[red p]

Morning, Tom coffee please, and could I have a large order of biscuits and gravy to go with that.
Just got in this morning at 4:00, it was a nice quick pig train though.
And you can put me down for Dec. 23rd. on the contest, and ill bet trollyboy does it.

Hey if you got a minute check this out. I know its kinda hard to read,had it in my coat pocket for about a week. But this is the plan for the passenger station im going to do in HO scale for my PC/Amtrak layout. What do you think?
By the way this is the PRR1967 track diagram.
p

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and all assembled at the bar. Coffee, please, round for the house and $for the jukebox. We'll play "Mystery Train" - not by Elvis, but by the Paul Butterfield Band (Nick should enjoy this version). Clear this a.m. although we are under winter storm warning for later. Gas is $2.19/gal here this a.m, went up about $.05 from yesterday.

Lots of interesting posts to read today.

To wanswheel - I graduated from UNH longer ago than I care to remember. Many B&M folks, especially on the engineering side came from there. The B&M ran (still does) on the north side of the campus. I recall crossing the tracks on the overpass there many times going to classes, and in the winter the only thing between us and Santy's workshop was the Canadian border. The station still stands at Durham and is the town itself is served by Amtrak's Northeast or whatever it's name is. Anyway, when I was there, we had passenger service provided by RDC (I knew that would get our 'steamed proprietor's attention). Freight service was not all that infrequent as Durham was on the Portland Division main line. Power was trios or quartetes of GP7s or GP9s either in red and gold or blue/black white color scheme. Locals ren generally behind RS3s.

Boradway material is always appreciated. The power change at Harrisburg from electric to steam or electric to diesel didn't take all that long. GG1s had steam generators which took care of heating, etc.

I have many fond memories of the G motors. One of the best is when I went to visit my dad when he was in school at Rutgers. Now bear in mind that I was about 11 or 12 yrs. old and the following story is even more extraordinary (in light of today's obsession with liability, etc.)

The New Brunswick station was not all that far from the campus and I begged permission to go look at the P Company. I went into the station and told the man behind the counter what I wanted to do, and he said, "Fine - but don't stand too close to the tracks." The reason for that warning became pretty clear when the "Congressional" went by - my God - I'd never seen a train moving that fast before in life, even after spending time along the New Haven between Providence and Kingston where they really used to roll. Anyway, the day passed all too fast in a blur of passenger trains, freight trains, all types of electric locomotives, some diesels, etc. I guess that's how I became an SPF (Slobbering Pennsy Freak, according to my NYC buddies) in addition to all my other interests. As a postscript, I believe Tom will agree with this, if anybody ever tells you that all of the PRR was all the same, tain't so.

For the passenger folks in the audience, here's a 1930-era consist for PRR train 124 "ACL, SO., N&W and WASHINGTON AND NEW YORK EXPRESS" Not the greatest name ever, but at least you knew where it went.
Sleepers
Augusta-New York (2 cars via ACL)
Wilmington-New York (via ACL)
Thomasville-New York (2 cars via ACL)
Myrtle Beach-New York (Sundays)
Tampa-New York (via SAL)
Asheville-New York (2 cars via SOU)
Augusta-New York (via SOU)
Aiken-New York (2 cars via SOU)
Winston-Salem-New York (via SOU)
Greensboro-New York (via SOU)
Chattanooga-New York (via N&W/SOU)
New Orleans-New York (via N&W/SOU)
Shreveport-New York (via N&W/SOU)
Augusta-New York (via SOU)
Diner: Washington-New York
Coaches: Washington-New York

Train 124 departed Washington at at 7:25 a.m. , arrived NY at 1230 p.m.

work safe

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

We open at 6 AM, all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

Good Morning!

Fish ‘n Chips Nite! With perhaps something from Nick’s Picks!


Daily Wisdom:

Treat mule-headed men the same way you’d treat a mule your fixin’ to corral. Don’t try to drive ‘em in. Just leave the gate open a crack and let ‘em bust in.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST – CONTEST – CONTEST

It’s time again to play the guessing game! What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?]

PRIZE [?] Free food ‘n drink for any of the following days: Thursday (Fish ‘n Chips Nite) – Friday (Pizza and Steak ‘ Fries Nite) – Saturday (Steak, etc.)

BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

PRIZE [?] Reservations for two in the Penthouse Suite for any weekend night of your choice!

RULES: No ties gentlemen. The FIRST one who Posts a guess that hits the mark, wins! It’s that simple.

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]

pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob

CONTEST CLOSES TOMORROW!

(2) MARK YOUR CALENDAR!

Monday, December 12th represents the 8th Month Anniversary of ”Our” Place! An appropriate way to celebrate our “founding day” is to Post information relating to travel by rail during the Christmas holiday season!

With ample time to prepare, I would expect we will all find something suitable for this event. An advertisement, an article, a personal account – anything at all that will bring to light a trip or two by rail during the Christmas season.

That’s it! Nothing more to do. No “party” per se – it’s not a birthday celebration – just an opportunity for us all to recognize this achievement we’ve all contributed to. [tup]


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 00:03:54 (184) Inclusive Post, etc.

(2) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 00:26:04 (184)

(3) Fergmiester Fergie Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 03:31:12 (184)

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 05:44:41 (184) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(5) passengerfan Al Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 06:13:06 (184) Streamliner #22 – Broadway Ltd

(6) passengerfan Al Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 06:32:36 (184)

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 08:16:40 (184) Acknowledgments, etc.

(8) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 08:22:25 (184) Daily pick-us-up!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 10:00:53 (184) NOSTALGIA #39 – Broadway Ltd

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 12:13:51 (184) Inclusive Post, etc.

(11) wanswheel Mike Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 13:57:43 (184) Inclusive Post, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 15:36:43 (184) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) barndad Doug Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 17:44:57 (184) Recollections of a Locomotive Fireman, Part III, etc.

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 18:47:07 (184) Acknowledgments

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 19:49:30 (184) Inclusive Post, etc.

(16) passengerfan Al Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 20:38:18 (184) Streamliner #23 Empire State Express

(17) barndad Doug Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 21:45:36 (184) Recollections of a Locomotive Fireman, Part IV

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 21:50:15 (184) Acknowledgments, etc.

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 07 Dec 2005, 23:54:35 (184) Inclusive Post, etc.

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. Just tea tonight for me I'm back at it in the morning. I'll leave money for an early morning round for Tom and the breakfast crowd.

Tom Who knows exactly how Boris got up there it took Leon using Tex as a winch to get him out. Awk wanted to supervise but somehow his suggestion to cut down the tree to get him out didn't seem at the time to be neither safe nor prudent.

It is quite a site that fergie compiled, bit much for me to wrap my grey matter around as well,not unlike the CS which i visit more infrequently now, just sensory overload.

Don't wish for too much *** snow you may just get it. With the great lakes overly warm this year we may still be digging out in May. at least that's what envirinment canada has been saying. I'll look into emailing Don, I'm not sure that he was email enabled through the forum, but I'll go back and check.He's not that local to me but he did mention some thing a ways back about maybe wanting to do some rail fanning so i was meaning to touch base with him anyway.

A note to everyone perhaps drop a wee line to Ted.May make him feel a bit better healing words and thoughts and all that.

Doug Great last couple of parts to the firemans story loved them. ain't the gritty part of railroading fun ?

Nick ONR has some pretty heavy rail. Mainline standards. My guess is that the derailments there on the ONR are more a matter of too big a train on a regionals tighter curves and easements.The ONR wasn't designed to run 100+ car trains at 60 mph.Glad that the girls behaved themselves however, as to the bombs away comments I guess old habbits die hard. speaking of habbits did H&H show you their halloween costumes from this past Oct 31st ?

I do get the bum shifts oh welkl I get to do mostly what i want so i can't complain too much.
Al Liked the Empire state express bit. Did you catch the TH&B ad for it I posted oh maybe 10 pages back? Thanks for the comment on Palmerston it was a really interesting town full service facility in the day 13 stall round house freight sheds and coaling docks,a thre standpipe water tank. More railroad stuff than one would normally expect in a small rural town. Ah the days of steam, not suprising that it was replaced.


Mike I figured that you were just pulling my cjhain that's alright we all do that around here, opart of the fun iof the place. have you emailed Kalmbach ? They may still have the original your dad sent them. Never know you might be able to get it back from them. Kincardine is a neat little town actually that whole area of Ontario is very picturesque and quaint. Most of the CN and CP trackage up that way was removed in the late 70's early 80's. The odd sation is still around ( those that haven't burned ) All train sations in Ontario are covered by a blankett piece of legislation that was designed to preserve them. All it really does is say that they can't be torn down.They can be moved and if they burn well then all bets are off. Wingham's witches hat station is still there being used as a restaurant the last I had heard.A station identical to Kincardine's, is at our museum. It's the station from Rockwood. CN wanted to tear it down to double their trackage thrrough town so the museum bought it in 1971 and moved it the 10 miles or so to our museum site. we've restored it and use it as it was intended today.

Well folks I'm off early day tomorrow. [zzz]

Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

May I add to the tributes to the Veterens on Pearl Harbor Day.

Thanks AL and TOM for the Broadway Limited ads and details. It must have been a fine site behind a GG1.How was the cars heated when changed from electric to steam power

CM3, Interesting details on the manpower and equipment that was used to repair 1927 floods.

ROB Good piece on the Rusty Rails. In the Trains magazine there is a piece each month which lists the N. American railroad Acquisitions and Abandonments, I always feel a bit sad when I read of a line being put out of use. [:(][V]

WANSWHEEL MIKE Thanks for sharing some of your interesting family history and for the thoughtful links.

NICK Hope you are to post photo of Wexford. When I was over that way the normal passenger trains between Dublin and Rosslare were worked by the 001 class diesels.

DOUG Thanks for Part Three and Four. There is nothing better than a good Footplate story [tup] I'll join you in a toast to Tom if I may And congrats on getting the book.

TOM Sorry I'm late with the post tonight had a tech problem.
About the ferries,my notes are in England But as Nick says the first trip was on a large car ferry. There were cabins but what struck me was that there was a lack of seats inboard with most of the seats in bars etc. where we spent our time.
There was two companies that sailed between Holyhead and Ireland.
The one sailed from a dock adjacent to Holyhead station and sailed to Dun Leahoire(not sure about the spelling) which is a few miles south of Dublin. It is a short walk to the station there which is served by the electrified Dublin Area Rapid Transit cars. This line is part of the Dublin to Rosslare route. The ferry was owned by the railway company it is now I believe operated by Stenna lines.

The other ferry is operated by B&I lines. It involved a short bus journey from Holyhead railway station to the B&I dock. This sailed to Dublin North Wall dock which was a fairly short bus or cab ride to the city center.

The last time I used the ferry it was by the passenger only Sea-Cat which I believe does the trip in less than half the time.

I will try and find out what the situation is now with the connections at Holyhead.I hope this as been useful PETE>

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Just a few words before turning the bar over to Leon the Night Man -

Nick - Thanx for participating in our Contest! Was beginning to wonder ..... Also, hope you'll be able to particpate in our 8th Month Anniversary/Christmas RR Travel Posting on Dec 12th ..

Can't help you with those heavyweights in dove grey and orange stripe. Surely might be SP. Surely something for Al or Dave to pick up on..

What in the world are you referring to regarding your choice of music [?] Cite me just one aspersion form me, and I'll buy the drinks for you for the remainder of the year! <geesh> Whatever it is you are drinking, perhaps you should abstain! <grin> Also, if you've been putting your own coins in Herr Wurlitzer you've messed up - for the "jar" is full of quarters just for that purpose! Oh well ...... [swg]

Appreciate the info on the ferry service to Ireland - and love that name, "Vomit Comet." [yeah] Nothing like calling it like it is! [swg]

Al Couldn't hold off, eh [?] Well, it will be more reading for the 'morrow, for I'll sure not get to it this fine nite! Thanx for the effort nonetheless. Catch up is a lot of work, isn't it [?] [swg] Glad you are getting to the NOSTALGIA pieces. [tup]

Thanx for the round!

Doug Thanx for the toast and kind words! Another epistle too .... man oh man, I'm going to have to get reading glasses. [swg]

Email has been sent to Al, Doug and Rob. Change is on the way, guys.


Okay - time for me to check out.

Later! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Evening again Tom and friends. I'll be needing a bottomless draught, or poppies perhaps to make me sleep. It's been go go go around here for a long time it seems. Please accept a round on me, and sit back to the final installment of the Fireman series ..... but 1st, a few things need to be said: Al how do you keep coming up with all these streamliner segments, and how much time do you spend typing it all up? Please keep 'em coming ... it's amazing stuff. Dan, I won the auction on the CW book, and now have it in my grubby mitts ... and I love it! Thanks for the recommendation! Tom, I can't say enough about your efforts here in maintaining a thread that is unlike any other I've seen. Everyone please raise your glasses to Captain Tom, yourselves, and the future of Our Place! And now ... part IV ...

Recollections of a Locomotive Fireman by Don Olsen, Vintage Rails Nov/Dec 1998

Out of the Ordinary – For several months, I worked on a guaranteed job at Mt. Hebron. The 1 percent grade to Grass Lake, 25 miles to the west, required helpers for maximum-rated freights, which could otherwise make the run from Klamath Falls to Dunsmuir unassisted. Four crews lived and messed in a couple of old wooden passenger cars set on foundations along the tracks, and generally we were called once a day; but if not, we were still given a day’s pay – thus the “guaranteed” description. A wye, water and oil supplies, and a resident agent completed the facilities.

One day a westbound freight approached, but we had been advised no helper would be needed: It was already on the train. The Cab-Forward roared by with its string of cars, making a run for the hill, and at the rear came the helper. Imagine our surprise to find it was a lame Mike – a locomotive without a main rod on one side! Of course, it might need a push if stopped on dead center, but once moving it could shove: however, the uneven thrust caused the engine to fishtail down the line. It must have been hard on the track, but SP wasn’t going to move an engine cold if there was some way to get work out of it.

One situation I regretted allowing to develop, and vowed never to repeat, concerned a drunken engineer. Not “falling-down drunk,” but obviously the worse for over-indulging. My problem was that if I refuse to take the run, I would have had to reveal my reason, and if the hogger had had any other brownies connected to Rule G, he’d probably have been fired.

So, although it was against my better judgment, it seemed relatively safe, having our helper tethered to the back of the train. When the road engine whistled off, my hogger yanked the throttle wide open. Those little Consolidations just squatted down and heaved – never slipping an inch! As soon as the road engine took up enough of the load, we started to move, but after getting a good roll, my befogged engineer decided to play more games and close the throttle. I thought we’d surely pull a drawbar when the slack ran out, but luck is with this witless. However, the road engineer must have wondered what was going on at the rear of his train. The conductor came out of the crummy and hollered at us, but my hogger was feeling no pain and ignored the commotion. Just when we almost dragged to a stop because of the head end couldn’t pull the whole load, out came the throttle again, and we began to pick up speed. As we dropped the caboose down onto its train at Grass Lake, we got some strange looks from its crew, but my engineer thought it was a great joke.

We rolled around the wye, and after getting our clearance to return to Mt. Hebron, we were off. As I remember, standing orders required all light helpers to take 45 minutes from Grass Lake to Mt. Hebron, but we made it in about 30. I’ll swear I felt the drivers under me lifting off the rails on several turns, but ol’ “feel good Joe” was singing and laughing and thoroughly enjoying himself. Needless to say, I was shake and relieved to climb down from the engine on that day. Soon after, that hoghead bid off to another job, and I never saw him again.

Black Butte could certainly qualify as one of California’s coldest spots in the winter, and one night we needed to take water at its tank. The wind was howling down off the mountain, and everything was covered with a sheet of ice. I carefully made my way out on the tender deck, experiencing considerable difficulty keeping my feet against the force of the wind. I finally got the cistern cover open and the spout into the opening. However, when I reached up for the large wheel which opened the valve, the wind swept me right off my feet, and having a hold on the valve wheel saved me from going over the side.

The engineer heard my shouts and told the head brakeman to go back and see what the commotion was about. The hoghead later told me that when the brakeman returned, he said, “That *** fool kid was back there doing gymnastics – in this weather!”

A recap of my unusual firing experiences on the Shasta Division would be incomplete without describing some “foreign” equipment, UP’s 2-8-8-0s. Postwar business on SP’s western lines was booming to such an extent that it leased five monster articulateds, in the 3500 series, to augment helper service out of Dunsmuir. These appropriately nicknamed “bull Mooses” were in most respects, the antithesis of SP’s articulateds – grossly unlovely in appearance, as well as performance.

In all fairness, the UP articulateds were the last of the WWI drag freight design, whereas SP’s Cab-Forwards were among the first “modern” locomotive designs. This gap was but a decade by the calendar, but as far as basic design concepts and refinements, it was light years away. Also, in general, firing characteristics of converted coal burners were probably never on a par with original oil burning designs. UP’s smaller drivers, 57” vs. 63”, and lower boiler pressure, 218 vs. 250 psi, certainly limited their speed and power.

Having made all possible allowances for their shortcomings, the inescapable fact remained: These brutes were miserable to work! My first boarding was a visual revelation. The cab, likely due to coal burning ancestry, was huge. It seemed like a small ballroom compared to SP cabs. Conversing with the engineer, so much farther away, required shouting, rather than calling out signals, etc. The lack of a trailing truck certainly contributed to an extraordinary rough ride: Over 20 mph one could hardly stay on the seatbox. It also required the firebox to be located between the rear drivers, which resulted in a long and narrow configuration, strongly resembling a bowling alley.

It was so difficult to maintain a full head of steam on these brutes that a number of runs stalled on the hill north of Dunsmuir and had to whistle out flags while the overwhelmed tallowpot tried to regain working pressure. I might have been among the disgraced, but for the friendly counsel of a veteran fireman, who advised me to “lay the biggest *** fire in her that you can!”

Well, that was the secret, all right. After tying onto our train, I had what seemed to be a heavy fire, but just standing still I couldn’t get the needle up to the pin! So I opened up the blower and the firing valve, and that antique started roaring and drumming like the devil’s own, with flames shooting out the cracks around the firebox door! We took off with a tremendous commotion and a fire twice the size of the heaviest fire I’d ever laid in one of our ACs. It must have been impressive from the ground, too, because it got the attention of many local rails, who are notorious for remaining unimpressed, regardless of the show.

The engineer, with whom I had not previously worked, didn’t say much but kept watching me out of the corner of his eye. About half way up the hill, he called me over and said, “My last run died here; I’m relieved to know it won’t happen this time.” He gave me a wink and said, “Keep up the good work!” He and the head brakeman had occasional words, and it was obvious that the hogger was ragging him, but I had no idea why. Later he told me that the brakeman had bet him a fifth that as a relatively new man, I wouldn’t be able to tame the beast, either. Since that brakeman was a particularly obnoxious clod, the victory was sweet, indeed.

A final complaint about these gawd-awful machines was their whistles. Being raised on the melodious sound of SPs six-chime Nathans left me woefully unprepared for a Bull Moose trumpet. Maybe this suggested their nickname: The whistles screamed like banshees, an ear-splitting shriek which made fingernails scraping on a blackboard seem positively benign by comparison. And adding insult to injury, the whistle itself was located on the steam turret, just ahead of the cab, right over our heads, rather than farther forward on the boiler.

A comparison between these monsters and SP’s locomotives was no contest. The Baldwin products were wonderful to work, esthetically handsome, and relatively comfortable, as steamers went. It made me very aware of how fortunate this starry-eyed steam lover was to have worked the magnificent Cab-Forwards amidst some of California’s most spectacular scenery. Images of Mt. Shasta, glistening with fresh snow in the light of a frosty moon, are undimmed by the passage of 50 years.

At the risk of becoming nostalgic, I must say that, to me, a steam locomotive always seemed to be a living, breathing creature – whether sighing and whispering softly to itself when at rest or laboring mightily at full throttle It embodied the epitome of raw power: One could feel the pent up energy of steam waiting to surge into the cylinders and drive the engine to the far horizons over twin ribbons of steel. Its billowing plume of exhaust lifting to the heavens seemed to thunder defiance of mere man and his limitations. Contemporary railroading is still exciting, but it can never equal the romance inspired by steam.

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house. Catching up on the posts has taken me awhile and to the regulars I commend all of you in my absence for giving me much more material to read than my exhausted brain can absorb all at once.

Wanswheel Mike I have the information you mentioned on the Blue Bird will look it up in the next day or two and get out to you.

Barndad Doug I really enjoyed the article by the SP fireman.

Trolleyboy Rob Love the articles on the CN Palmerston Sub.

Tom enjoyed the Nostalgia pieces you have printed I have been copying fast and furious to try and get caught up.

To try and get myself caught up thought i would do the piece on the EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS on this date rather than wait until tomorrow.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 23

EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS New York Central Trains 50-51 between Cleveland/Detroit and New York City daily in each direction 630 miles New York-Cleveland 16 hours each way. Streamlined train inaugurated December 7, 1941. On that date the New York Central inaugurated the first westbound EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS and on the following date the trains ran for the first time in both directions.

The December 7, 1941 date is best remembered as the date the United States Pacific Fleet and other military installations was attacked at Pearl Harbor in the Hawaiin Islands by Imperial Japanese forces plunging the United States into WW-II

The EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS was among the finest of day trains to enter service at the time of its inauguration using all stainless steel Budd built equipment with the roofs painted black. Both coach passengers and Parlor car patrons were offered dining and lounge facilities and the trains served two cities at their western ends. The cars were named for New York State Governors with six coaches receiving numbers as they were extra cars all used on the December 8, 1941 trains sets. Besides all of the New York State governors names had been used. Later one of the extra coaches 32564 would be named THOMAS E. DEWEY in 1954 when the three term Governor left office.

The two sections split and came together at Buffalo each day the Detroit cars operated via the NYC southern Ontario line while the Cleveland section operated via the NYC four track mainline. The Cleveland and New York end beagan behind electric power with Staem taking over at Harmon and the eastend of the Cleveland electrification.

For the main portion of the trip between the electrified zones the NYC streamlined two J3 4-6-4 Steam locomotives and tenders with fluted atainless steel on the tenders and stainless steel bolier jacket covers to match the stainless stell consists trailing. These locomotives were 5426 and 5429. The tops were painted black to match the roofs of the Budd stainless steel cars. Each locomotives streamlining was slightly different then the others.

CONSIST ONE Departing Harmon for Buffalo westbound December 8, 1941

5429 ALCO Streamlined J-3 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive and Tender

ALONZO B. CORNELL Baggage 60'Railway Post Office Car

GROVER CLEVELAND Baggage Buffet Bar 46-Seat Lounge Car

CHARLES E. HUGHES 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room

NATHAN L. MILLER 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room

ALFRED E. SMITH 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room (New York - Detroit)

DeWITT CLINTON 44-Seat Dining Car
(New York - Detroit)

GEORGE CLINTON 44-Seat Dining Car

REUBEN E. FENTON 56-Revenue Seat Coach
(New York - Detroit)

DAVID B. HILL 56-Revenue Seat Coach
(New York - Detroit)

WILLIAM L. MARCY 56-Revenue Seat Coach
New York - Detroit)

WILLIAM H. SEWARD 56-Revenue Seat Coach

CHARLES S. WHITMAN 56-Revenue Seat Coach

2564 56-Revenue Seat Coach

2566 56-Revenue Seta Coach

2568 56-Revenue Seat Coach

THEODORE ROOSEVELT 26-Seat Tavern Lounge Bar 22-Seat Lounge Observation

CONSIST TWO Departing Buffalo for New York City

5426 ALCO Streamlined J-3 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender

JOHN A. DIX Baggage 60' Railway Post Office Car

MARTIN VAN BUREN Baggage Buffet Bar 46-Seat Lounge Car

HERBERT H. LEHMAN 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room

LEVI P. MORTON 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room

SAMUEL J. TILDEN 30-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Revenue Seat Parlor Drawing Room (Detroit - New York)

JOHN JAY 44- Seat Dining Car
(Detroit - New York)

HORATIO SEYMOUR 44-Seat Ding Car

HAMILTON FISH 56-Revenue Seat Coach
(Detroit - New York)

MORGAN LEWIS 56-Revenue Seat Coach
(Detroit - New York)

EDWIN D. MORGAN 56-Revenue Seat Coach
(Detroit - New York)

DANIEL D. TOMPKINS 56-Revenue Seat Coach

SILAS WRIGHT 56-Revenue Seat Coach

2565 56-Revenue Seat Coach

2567 56-Revenue Seat Coach

2569 56-Revenue Seat Coach

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT 26-Seat Tavern Lounge Bar 22-Seat Lounge Car

TTFN AL

[nickinwestwales]

Good evening [4:-)]TOM & gentlemen all,a round for the house please-Given the date,a toast to the fallen & a moment of quiet introspection are called for.......................................................................................................................................................................Thank you gents,now to business-
Well here we all are,half-way-there day and pike perspectives to boot.[^],right,post first,before I switch to `ramble` mode:-
[4:-)]TOM,after much research,arcane calculation,consulting of mediums and divining from entrails (you don`t want to know ) I am prepared to risk general ridicule and nominate Dec 27th as the big day & BAR CHANDLER ROB as the man to do the deed
Nice stuff on the `Broadway Limited`-yet again ,the power of a name to conjure an image-for me that name conjures up a picture of a big semi-streamlined pacific or mountain with boxpok type disc wheels hauling an immense string of heavyweights all in dove grey with a broad orange stripe down the sides-presumably something I saw in a book as a nipper,although the livery sounds more like the S.P-clues anyone ?
As to Irish ferry sailings,the crossing is about 4 hours (weather permitting) most services are on the big car ferries,which also carry a big volume of lorry traffic.
There is also a fast `cat` service "The vomit comet" which I think is foot passage only.
Not sure about Holyhead-Dublin service,but Fishguard-Rosslare connects with an (eventual) London train on this side but C.I.E service is geared to outgoing passengers only and departs 10 minutes before the ferry is due in,consequently a wait of about 3 hours for Dublin service or 12 hours for Waterford and the west.
Pembroke Dock is about 20 mins walk from the station which at least has regular trains throughout the day,Fishguard just has the 2 boat-trains.
Easiest solution is to stop over with us & we`ll take the car over-gives us far more flexibility...[swg][tup]
Juke box-I`ve put a small fortune into that thing-!!!-just `cause you lot don`t like my `left field` selections there`s no need to be casting aspertions..............
PETE-Ave ! ( beat *** with clenched fist ) -Sounds like Wexford Town all right,pictures at 11 as they say-only shots I got are without train,saw the track more or less in the middle of the street and assumed abandoned freight spur. Halfway through fry-up in caff,heard train horn-by the time the penny dropped & I`d grabbed the camera from under the mountain of rain-gear & baby stuff She was mostly past and the lorry traffic in the road prevented a clear line of sight-just have to go try again I guess ( apparently they pay big bucks for bands over there-hmmm..................)
ROB-they certainly keep all the best shifts for you mate,still who wants that 9-5 s**t anyway.
H+H extremely competant Zeppelin crew,if a little over-fond of Wagner on the Tannoy system,however,loud yelling of "bombs avay" when passing over Milford Haven refineries unlikely to endear them to locals..........
FERGIE-Welcome ashore,hope you had a good trip[tup]-Like the VSO idea-maybe I can route some freight via Can-Am lines-got newsprint,forest products,iron ore,limestone,green veg & salad,beer,bread & grain going out and coal,oil,gasoline,propane,heavy plant,autos & spares,steel,white goods,plastic pellets coming in-P.S do you need a european agent ? [swg]
AL-an early finish is (almost) always a good thing [tup]-nice stuff,as ever,but tuscan red with a mauve stripe-is it just me or does that sound slightly twitch-inducing..?
CM3-Nice one on the C.V floods-that musta been a job to see !![^]
MIKE-Howdy-Saw a feature on Mt Washington line on kids T.V. the other day,talk about a line built to prove a point !-Some lovely clips of the train ascending with rods flailing madly,smoke belching from the stack and the whole thing gliding along at about 3mph [^]-thanks for sharing the family stuff,puts a spotlight on a whole way of life thats been left behind somewhere-nice one[^][tup].
RED P-I thought there was something familiar about you-just been crawling through the archives on a `Gazette`-related project and who do I find but your good self,pitching in during [4:-)]TOM`s spring railtour,my apologies for not picking up sooner-drinks on me to cover my shame.
[4:-)]TOM-just picked up that news-feed U.R.L-sounds like they need a loan of the track gang out west.
Joking aside,there have been a number of derailments up on the O.N.R since they`ve taken on forwarding of C.N. through traffic,almost always with C.N covered Gons on the deck ( and eating a fair amount of rail in the process).-Wonder if some dispatch clerk somewhere is trying to route high-weight cars along lines that are not maintained to take them....who knows.
Right,a touch weary now,will pitch in to pikes perspectives when I`ve dropped the little one off to school ( about 2.30 am your time )
enjoy the evening,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

Good to see ya again, barndad Doug and we’re lookin’ forward to a “report” of your RR activities. Also, thanx for the Part III of your series. Much too much for me to digest tonight – but I will get to it in the ‘morrow! [tup] Lots of work putting that together and it’s appreciated ….

Oh yes – there’s a rather long Email awaiting an acknowledgment when “you come up for air!”

Finally, THANX for participating in our Contest!

Some info for wanswheel Mike

You made mention of the train called the “Blue Bird,” suggesting that perhaps two roads used that name. Maybe so. Check out these URLs on my series of Fallen Flag and NOSTALGIA Posts. Keep in mind these are NOT all inclusive and represent only the period of time shown. Also, the Monday INDEX is a good source for these and many other ‘special’ Posts.

For the Nickel Plate Fallen Flag – scroll down
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=154&TOPIC_ID=35270

For the Wabash Fallen Flag and “New Blue Bird” NOSTALGIA– scroll down ….
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=147&TOPIC_ID=35270

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]