"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Railroad Stations – Terminals & Depots

Number One - Toronto’s Union Station


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.


Union Station (Toronto)

Union Station is a major railway, subway, and streetcar station at 65 Front Street West between Bay Street and York Street in downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Currently, the primary function of the railway station is to act as a terminus for commuters on GO Transit, thanks to which it is busier than any other transport facility in the country, including airports. It also serves as a hub for intercity trains, and many railway companies have their offices within the building.


Details


The main entrance of Union Station.

Union Station is eight storey’s tall and features a massive lobby known as the Great Hall, numerous corridors at the top, and a shooting gallery used by CN railway police on the seventh floor.

While VIA Rail, the successor to the railways which originally built Union Station, continues to use it as a major hub for the Quebec City-Windsor Corridor (including the joint VIA-Amtrak Maple Leaf train to New York City) and the eastern terminus of The Canadian, the vast majority of passengers travelling through the station are from GO Transit's commuter trains. Toronto Transit Commission riders likewise outnumber VIA passengers. The station is also used by Ontario Northland trains to northern Ontario.

Union Station is one of the only large railway stations in North America to use through-train operation. That is, the train platforms are through lines rather than lines which terminate in the station, as in stub-end operation. The name 'Union Station' refers simply to the fact that it united two railways in one building.

The platforms in the train shed are very close together. Passengers wait downstairs in a concourse similar to that of an airport prior to their trains arriving at the platform. Once the train has arrived, passengers enter gates which lead via escalator or stairs to the platform where they board the train.


Preceding station . . . . . . . . VIA Rail Lines . . . . . . . . . . Following station


Oakville (some trains) . . . . . . Toronto – Ottawa . . . . . . . . .Guildwood

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Toronto – Montréal . . . . . . . .Guildwood

Oakville . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Windsor – Toronto . . . . . . . .Oshawa (some trains)

Brampton . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Sarnia – Toronto . . . . . . . . .Terminus

Oakville . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Niagara Falls – Toronto . . . . Terminus

Washago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Vancouver – Toronto . . . . . . Terminus
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Canadian . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Oakville . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . New York – Toronto . . . . . . . Terminus
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Maple Leaf . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ontario – Northland Lines . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Washago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Cochrane – Toronto . . . . . . . Terminus
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Northlander . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

History


Clock outside Union Station.


Columns outside Union Station.


GO Train waiting area inside Union Station's back area.

Toronto's third Union Station (see more on Old Union Station) was the largest enclosed space in Canada at the time it was built. Construction was begun in 1913 and the building was officially opened on August 6, 1927 in a ribbon cutting ceremony attended by His Royal Highness Prince Edward of Wales who cut the ribbon with a pair of gold scissors. Also in attendance was Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prince George, United Kingdom Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin and Mrs. Baldwin, Ontario Lieutenant-Governor William Donald Ross and Mrs. Ross, Ontario Premier George Howard Ferguson, and numerous other members of the Ontario and Canadian governments.

Union Station was built by the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Grand Trunk Railway. The architects were G.A. Ross, R.H. MacDonald, Hugh Jones, and John M. Lyle. Like many stations of its period, it is designed in the Classical revival style developed by the École des Beaux-Arts in Paris.

In 1954, the Toronto Transit Commission opened a station immediately north of Union Station, which acted as the southern terminus of its new subway line, and as part of 1990's Harbourfront LRT project, they added an underground streetcar loop now used by the 509 Harbourfront and 510 Spadina lines.

In 1972, the station was threatened by the two railways' (by this point the Canadian National and Canadian Pacific) development proposal. It would have seen new office and retail developments and a communications and observation tower (which was later re-designed and built as the CN Tower) on the site of Union Station and adjacent rail yards. The entire station was to be demolished, and replaced with an underground terminal, similar to New York City's Penn Station. Local opposition to the proposal was successful in having the city council's decision to support the Metro Centre development overturned.

The future

Union Station was purchased by the City of Toronto from the Toronto Terminals Railway Company (TTR) in August 2000. On July 24, 2003 the City leased Union Station to the Union Pearson Group for a term of 100 years. A public-private partnership has been created to redevelop the station, and a Master Plan has been developed with four major components:

• An integrated public realm, redefining and joining the Union Plaza and Front Street spaces,
• A modern station, including redevelopment of the trainshed with construction above it,
• Revitalisation of underutilised spaces, notably redeveloped concourses, moats and teamways, and
• Extended pedestrian connections, including improved passages, new entrances, and improved ease of movement.

Presently there is no rail service to Toronto Pearson International Airport, but on November 13, 2003 Transport Canada announced the selection of SNC-Lavalin subsidiary Union Pearson AirLink Group to finance, design, construct, operate, and maintain an railway link between Union Station and Pearson. The service is to be named Blue22 because of its planned 22-minute trip time. At present, it is planned that the line will use four refurbished Rail Diesel Cars, with trains running every fifteen minutes, seven days a week. Due to opposition and a new environmental assessment for the project, the expected opening date for Blue22 will be later than 2008, as originally projected.

References

• Toronto Union Station Master Plan
• CBC: Train station leased for 100 years
• Union Pearson Group
• Transport Canada Rail Link News Release
• Toronto's Union-Pearson Air-Rail Link


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.


Photo’s from other sources


Toronto Union Station Great Hall



Toronto Union Station Great Hall



Toronto Union Station Gate Concourse



Toronto Union Station aerial view


***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

John - Congratulations. Ours were close together so we had "double headers" at the store; one cart for the little people and one for the groceries. Then there's the whole issue of car seats - We can put people into space, but can't develop a standard fitting/harness system for car seats. I'd better quite before our 'steamed proprietor banishes me to the rat room........

The material on the LEDR was interesting. There's a book waiting to be done on lines that served various parts of Boris's favorite industry. Let' see, there was the Milwaukee Road's "beer line," and several L&N branmches that served different distilleries; then there's the Bath and Hammondsport. The Coors operation in Golden was recently featured in an article, etc. I can see it now, we'd never get done with the research. Maybe Nick could get a grant to help out.....I've never seen an inverted Zeppelin in flight before.

In answer to Nick's question about the Trainmaster. This was a case of the model imitating the real thing. The TM was HUGE for it's time and the frame was very high. I remember lots of FM power on the New Haven; not the big TMs, but something that was called a "baby" Trainmaster.

Well, sorry to make this a short one, but duty calls. Hot dog, MP is next!

work safe

P.S. Before I forget, here's another possibility for movie offering. "Crack Up." IIRC this was produced in 1946-47. Pat O'Brien/Claire Trevor. It featured some positively surreal scenes on a NYC commuter train. Scare the !@#$ out of you.

Also how about Jimmy Stewart in one filmed on the B&O in West Virginia. Title of this one is "Fool's Parade." This one is outstanding with much color footage of B&O steam-powered passenger trains (interior and exterior).

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

A bit of chill in the air, but temps are on the rise, should get to the 60s (F) here in mid-Continent USA. A severe storm system moving in later tonight . . . batten down the hatches, boyz! Petrol up at “Collusion Corner” was holding at $2.29 (rounded) yesterday, however not that far away there were some stations selling it for $2.42. Go figure . . .

Looks like we had a “flurry” to finish off the day and looks like the “take” was respectable for “Tilla” and “Cashinator.” Made a few bucks, but no doubt it will all get spent on the 12th![tup][tup][tup]

Many THANX for the visits from Nick – John – Pete ‘n Rob!![tup]

We had a good day for “Pike Perspectives,” the idea that originally came from Theodorebear Ted, and now a “fixture” ‘round here. Too bad the creator hasn’t been seen in at least a month – for there’s been all kinds of good stuff Posted.

Rob I am a Blue kinda guy, but it can’t be found ‘round here at reasonable prices. Plus, Coors Light “does it” quite right for me. Once in Toronto, YOU’LL get YOUR opportunity to check me out on my Blue allegiance![swg]

John Email received – awaiting the Pix!

Pete Not sure I understand that “ad” you made mention of for the next Gazette. Anyway, ship me off an Email and I’ll “work it in” for ya![tup] Belatedly – I also checked out your URL and found it to be addictive – as they always are![swg]

Nick Amazing what one picks up on the 2nd time around in reading Posts (and marriages!!)[swg] With regard to the former, you surely have one hulluva ‘n eye for details – picking up on background stuff in Pix at that! Love it . . .

Okay boyz, time for me to get going on this day . . . .


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[siberianmo]

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SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED TODAY!

Railroad Stations – Terminals & Depots

WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday! Start the day with a hot cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Daily Wisdom

When wiser men are talkin’, let your ears hang down and listen.[swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear – Missouri Pacific (MP) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 05:39:32 (288) Pike Perspective’s Day – Lionel & Joke!

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 06:55:52 (288) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 08:52:50 (288) Acknowledgments, etc.

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 09:31:32 (288) CM3 Speaks & URL!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 11:13:56 (288) OO Gauge & British Model Trains

(6) BudKarr BK Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 12:58:21 (288) The BK Report!

(7) West Coast S Dave Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 15:17:11 (288) Just like old times!

(8) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 15:26:49 (288) The Lars Report!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 16:21:32 (288) Acknowledgments & Comments

(10) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 19:14:08 (289) Nick at Nite!

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 19:39:06 (289) Acknowledgment, etc.

(12) jlampke John Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 19:41:21 (289) from Korea!

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 19:50:40 (289) reply to John

(14) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 19:53:13 (289) Nite Cap!

(15) pwolfe Pete Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 22:57:52 (289) Wolfman Howls!

(16) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 23:17:52 (289) Inclusive Post, etc.

(17) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 23:27:19 (289) More!

(18) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 29 Mar 2006, 23:57:50 (289) Classic Steam #19 – The Booze Line



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 26th thru April 1st:Major League (1989) starring Tom Beringer, Charlie Sheen & Corbin Bernson – and – Bull Durham (1988) starring: Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins. SHORT: Plane Nuts (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[trolleyboy]

All right something new form you all.I've been sitting on this one for a while, but I figured that given the nature of this place that you would all get a kick or two out of it.

CLASSIC STEAM #19 THE BOOZE LINE HIRAM WALKERS RY



Hiram Walker's Lake Erie & Detroit River Railway

In 1856 American distiller Hiram Walker arrived on tthe Candian side of the Detroit River and began making booze, an operation which would become Canada's most prolific distillery. Around the distillery Walker laid out the planned community of Walkerville. By the 1880's the townsite became one of Ontario's best planned towns with tree lined boulavards,beautiful commersial buildings,hotels,a bank, and soilid well built homes for the plants workers. Walker's own company office was such a beautifull structure that today it's a designated historic herritage building !

And he built a beautiful railway station as well. In 1885 Walker brouhgt into operation the Lake Erie and Detroit River Railway. It was intended to bring in the raw materials from the farmlands south of Windsor for the distillery. As well as to export local cattle and lumber across the Detroit River to the American markets. At first the line crossed only Essex County, reaching Leamington in 1889. But there was a great demand by the municipalities further to the east for a railway so by 1895 the route extended all the way to St Thomas. At St Thomas it met the Canada Southern at the CSR station built 20 years before.

From St Thomas the LEDR had hoped to purchase the Electric Radial RY the London and Port Stanley ( classic Juice #1 ), in order to have access to the coal shipments arriving at Port Stanley from accross Lake Erie. Unfortunatly the city of London considered the proposal for too long that Walker's LEDR instead bought the Erie and Huron RY which had it's Lake erie terminus at the Port of Erieau. This gave the LEDR connections to Chatham through Sarnia.


At Erieau the LEDR built a large coaling facility then entered the tourist business by adding two excursion steam boats, the Shenango, and the Urania. These ships cruised between Conneaut and Erieau bringing tourists to stay at the Company owned Bungalow and Lakeview Hotels. In 1912 the Bungalow the areas best hotel burnt down and was never rebuilt. In 1972 the line to Erieau was the first portion of the LEDR to be abandoned.

Southwestern Ontario's main railway rivalries interestingly did not involve any candian owned companies but American ones. In 1904 to compeet more aggressivly with the NYC owned Canada Southern, the Pere Marquette RY took over the LEDR and operated it until 1951 when it became part of the C&O. Now the CSX.

For most of it's route, the LEDR gained it's business from the feed mills an dgrain elevators which were paired with the stations in most of the little towns along the line. Some fish was shipped seasonally from the ports of Kingsville and Wheatley, while,the major industry continued to be the distillery at Walkersville.

Gradually trucking intrests slowley took over the industries along the line. Between 1992 and 1996 most of the line between St Thomas and Walkerville was abandonned and the tracks lifted. The only track still in use today is found in Windsor and operates between the CN and CP and in Blenheim where grain is still moved by teh CSX alonf the former Erie and Huron ROW to Chatham.


Enjoy Rob

[trolleyboy]

Well I;m back lets see I missed a couple of guys horrors.

Pete That's an interesting thought. it wouldn't supprise me though if Peaks did those engine rebuilds however. EMD themselves don't build the 567 or 645 prime movers anymore,everythings the new high tech computer controlled 710 series of the big new monster brutes[tdn] simpler is better when it comes to locomotives, I think anyway.

Nick How could I forget you this evening. A thousand pardons sir. Let me spring for a round for you and Pete to atone. To answer your FL9 question , yes these were used on the Danberry run. They would have roamed the entire Metro North system i would have thought as well. Neat loco's only resently were the last couple retired.Apparently they had a big goodbye send off for them a month or so ago. Then from what I understand they were having some power shortages and what came out to pinch hit.I would think thouhg that the writing is on the wall for them,they've all been rebuilt repeatedly and they are done, at least from an everyday heavy use perspective.

John A lego train set you say [?] Did you get the european looking one's or the north anerican ones they put out in the last couple of years.[?]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, I see that the boyz have run you off your feet today, that's a good thing.[:D]

Tom Wonderfull rundown of the british "oo" manufacturers,it's not to ba dto work with from what I'm told. alot of the traction modellers on this side of the pond use Bec tram kits all OO scale but when you see them in an HO envorinment, there's not all that much difference.I;m glad that my posts "count" for something around here [:-^][swg] Also 4 coors light [?] I thought you were a blue man With the blues you would only have needed two. [;)][:-^]

CM3 that's a wonderfull looking layout,thanks for giving us the url for it. [tup]

Doug Nice story on the Lionel,and I must say that blonde joke brioke the braand new groanameter,that's got to be a tweetable offence[swg][:o] that or it's comming out of your next round. [swg] I'm gla dthat you've been enjoying the rebuilding series, it's done now. there are a few more lillte one's out there but I haven't much info on any of them. I;m gearing up for a couple more steam bits Gotta keep both sides of the fence happy . [:D]

Dave [:D][wow] Great story on the SP's almost electrification sir. It's the dave of old fer sure fer sure. I;m at a complete loss when it comes to understanding UP's numbering system. I'm sure that it makes sence to someone out there,gives the bean counters something to do anyway. taht unit does sound like a mutant, if it's a one off god knows if you will be able to discover exactly what it is / was. One sourse could be Wither's publishings Diesel era magazine, in each issue they put out a section on what's new on the contract rebuilding scene. They give you the blow by blow who built what , when, and from what.

The Bookends Great insite from both of you gents as per usual. Lars Thanks for posting the GN 400 url again, there are some wonderfull shots of it there. BTW I haven't much use for anythiong French at the moment either,both our local and the european varieties. Lest said the better probably. As you likely know the hoppers got the "trudeau" nick name because he was the PM in power when the government bought them for crazy prices that were paid for them at the time. They also brought in the official bilingualness of all gov offices and equipment ie CN at the time having one side of the cars each for the two languges. Again the less said the better. [:(]
BK Hey good to see you in again as well. Do you think that Tom was delictae and discreet enough in his thoughts on your proposed trip to europe [?] Oh well it's good to hear that you are enjoying life in the foothills with your intended, which is as it should be.Glad to hear that you will be front and center on the one year bash, I'll likley be in and out during the day in question. Mind you if it's a day off, I'll be more in than out.


Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Running late again Missed the free dinner from Dave but all right for the free Bathams from Nick, so fill em up LEON[tup].

A great Pikes Day. TOM Much great info on the Tri-ang/ Hornby models. Your post was the first time I had seen where the name Tri-Ang came from. I can recall the sadness over in England when the production was moved from Margate abroad.
A little bit of side info is that a class 86 electric loco on BR is named Frank Hornby (after the modelmaker). It is now owned by Freightliner and is used to haul intermodel trains and is now ending its long career, the class was introduced in 1964. Its running # is 86614.

DOUG I wonder if there was a model made of the bi- polar electric loco with the correct wheel arrangement [?] Great reading on the Lionels and YES I still like the jokes[:)].

CM3 The minature model loose coal and stone ballast was available in the U.K. but what a mess if there was a de-railment[:O] The link to the Rochester Model Railway was great, it must have brought a lot of pleasure to a great many people over the years[tup].
Thanks for the Hustle Muscle info and Lars for the link.

BK Good to see you back and glad you should able to be here for the 12th.

DAVE Interesting post on the SP Electrics and the reason Cab-Forwards were chosen instead of electrification.

ROB It sounds as though that company may have done the EMD engine refurbishments that are being used in the BR class 57 rebuilds recently.

NICK The Hornby site had the same effect on me I was on it for ages. I had quite a few of the accessories myself but sadly they only exist in catalogues and the memory now
(][:(].
I will find out about the Adams Radial Tank loco, the last I heard it was still at the Bluebell but I have not heard about it for a while. It was the loco that I had the first ride behind on the line in immaculate L&SWR livery as # 488 [^].

JOHN Great to hear from you again[tup].

LARS I'm going to ask Tom to put an ad in the Gazette to see if profit from my present run with the computer.

Well LEON,add how much it would have been for the Bathams if Nick had not got them and I will add it to the 12th fund[tup]. PETE.

[nickinwestwales]

Quick-a large measure of something worth drinking for our new parent JOHN,whilst he has the leisure to enjoy it,a similar glass for the `steamed proprieter who is obviously also enjoying some well-earned down time and I`ll try one as well (purely to be sociable you understand.......)
later,[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Hiya John

Another first for us - communicating from Mentor Village to Korea! Now that's quite a distance.

Email on the way as requested. Looking foward to the Pix!

Appreciate the round, as always, but this one is special - for to receive it, one has to say, "Uncle!"<grin-groan>

Good having you back in the fold . . . . [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[jlampke]

Evening Tom! I see you and Nick are here. An Absolute & grapefruit for me and a round for all the new "Uncles" present! I'll have to keep this short, again. Just wanted to thank BK & Al for the congrats. I'll work on a picture, but Tom, I left all my stuff, including your e-mail address, on the ship. Please send me your e-mail address so I can send the picture.
In keeping with the theme of this site, I haven't been doing anything outside the apartment here in Korea. I've ridden the trains here in Korea a few times, but can't offer anything interesting about them at this time. There is a steam locomotive in Seoul at a museum that I intend to see some day. I also have a 3-year-old daughter here in Korea, cute as hell, that has an extensive Lego train layout. Took up a whole room of the apt. I'm not sure who plays with it more; Me & her!!
Some comments in another posting about Robert J. Church's OUTSTANDING book on the SP's GS 4-8-4's. That book is worth every penny and them some. [tup] [tup] He put a hell of a lot of work into that book. Sad to think that a fine piece of work like that wouldn't interest most Americans, but a rag full of lies and half-truths like the ones Michael Moore puts out will sell well. [:(!] [censored]
And I guess some people actually belive that stuff. [tdn] [V]
Well, I've got to get back to studying.
John

[siberianmo]

G'day!

I see Nick is still out 'n about in spite of the hour in Merry Olde Wales![swg]

Leon the Night Man does indeed have the bar. I've been on the other side of the bar for several hours and am enjoying this day - immensely!<grin>

That's quite a rundown you've provided us and coupled with Sunday's input & Pix, I'd say we're all much better equipped to understand and envsion the model trains of GB![tup][tup]

There are those on this side of the pond who would declare "war" upon the utterance of any inference whatsoever bordering on slandering their SUV. To some, perhaps more sacred than God, Country, etc. A sick mindset, indeed.[tdn]

I failed to recognize the fine URL provided by CM3 this morning - that's one hulluva layout! The things kids (and older kids) dream of, eh[?] My Lionel set was "the best" in my minds eye - but there was always the "dream" - the thought that somewhere, somehow, one day, maybe . . . . [yeah] the dreams of childhood realized far, far down the track - but realized still the same! Long live the Can-Am![yeah]

Appreciate the references you've made to the S-Capades, Nick. It is a rather simple track plan, and if I ever get a roundtuit, I'll provide the track plan!!<groan>

Okay, time for me to enjoy the beer Nick bought . . . .

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening Gentlemen all,happy half-way-to-fri-day and Pikes Perspectives,which as a modeller first & foremost,I have to admit is my favourite segment-so,drinks all around [4:-)][oX)]Tom if you please-come and join the company for a while,Leon can look after the `shop` for a bit.
My word,a plethora of acknowledgements required here,better crack on (OLE`20 FINGERS could probably do it in about 3 minutes flat,I`m looking at an hour or two & on the plus side,half a dozen brews.......)
[4:-)][oX)]TOM-Brilliant !!-thanks mate,couple of notes on the illustrations-the shot of the `Flying Scot` with the matching Gresley coaches ( the finish was supposed to resemble varnished teak panelling )-of extra interest is the tank engine in the background,either a kit or scratch-built,it is a rather nice model of the 4-4-2 radial tank`s built under Adams for the London & South Western Rly for suburban pass. use.
The class are principally associated with the Lyme Regis branch in Devon where the last 3 spent their final days-one ending up on the Bluebell Railway in Sussex where it may well still be in use.....PETE.?
The train set pic-An educated guess suggests that this was produced for the Aus/NZ market-the set is numbered in the RS1x sequence ( U.K sets at that time were in the RS2x range & Transcontinental were RS3x ) ,the contents are slightly different from the RS31 set shown in the catalogue pix ( the tank car has been replaced by a low-roof boxcar to fit the same packaging ) and the livery appears different ( as far as I can tell at the available resolution )
The loco in the set also merits a passing mention-A 4-wl switcher,it appears in the `Commonwealth` range in yellow as a yard switcher and has for many years been a stalwart of the domestic market range as a harbour shunter,embossed with the legend "Dock Authority` carrying various combinations of #3,5&7 and in either black,or,more commonly,C.N orange/red.
The most extreme form is as part of the "Battle-Space" range where it was marketed on an un-powered chassis with the motor hooked up to a propellor at the back and a spike moulded onto the front-aimed at the Bart Simpson end of the market I suspect.
Opinions also vary as to the prototypye on which it is based,one school of thought suggests an early North British prototype the other has it down as a Baldwin-any info gladly received [^]
Hmm-seem to have a hole in my glass again,strange how that keeps happening.........
ROB-nice hit on the builders[tup]-Were those FL9`s used on commuter service out to Danbury ?-Have asked this before I know,but recall an article in Brit M.R. press some years ago & cant spare the 3 days needed to dig the boxes out,find the info & then put it all back again...
PETE-LOVED that Dublo URL-meant to check in this afternoon,tapped into that-next thing I know it`s schools out and I`m back in the doghouse-nice one mate[tup]-Bathams for you all night (plus a taxi home-[swg])-I`d have to say,I don`t think the company put their best minds onto the " Canadian Pacific" range............
Still have one or two H/D bits floating around the layout,the terminal station building straddles the tracks at Allendale (wholly unprototypically I might add )a couple of powered semaphores with new arms function as the Bradford up starter & down starter & gds advance signals,the metro staging points are switched by red bakelite lever frames and an A3 controller powers the test bench-built to last [^]
LARS-Good to see you`ve shaken off your recent troubles-excellent work on the Big 12th front by the way [tup]-enjoyed the URL,thanx for putting it our way.
Appreciate the kind words-as with all synergystic fusions I take away more than I bring but I guess thats how these things work.
By the way,how do you like your steak cooked.?-we serve `em with chips here ( the Brit variant of fries-thicker cut,cooked in lard rather than oil and ,most importantly,dont crumple up when you turn up the heat [swg]
DOUG-Another fine salvo,stories remain absolute page-turners,love the jokes(forget those other moaners,-It`s working for me)-nice one on the Lionel thing-Catalogue artwork when it was just that rather than slick photo-editing and then a spin-free description of the actual products.
This actually opens up another sub-theme-the way that the illustrators of our favourite toys managed to combine the "F-unit,2 cars & a Van" contents with the "ABBA plus a mile of cars" vision that we were seeing in our imaginations.....Hmmm-wandering again.
CM3-Interesting piece and URL-is that a VGN Trainmaster I see in the city scene ?-did they really tower over the coaches like that or is this tinplate modellers license at work ?
As an add-on to the Farish stuff the other night,First became aware of G/F as an `N` gauge manufacturer about 1970 when the put out a big advertising campaign to promote an 0-6-0t with a matching set of four wheel coaches in Great Eastern ( and later L.N.E.R & B.R liveries ) and a G.W.R pannier tank (94xx I believe) with G.W.R coaches.
Freight traffic and track were covered by the PECO Wonderful Wagon & Streamline track ranges.
Bogie coaches soon followed,as did a generic 0-6-0t loosely based on the L.M.S 3F Jinty which was offered in `big 4` liveries
PECO also offered a range of whitemetal kits for loco bodies using the Gra-Far chassis,mostly for 3.5/4mm narrow gauge ( H0/009 was very big here for a while in the `60`s & `70`s-a lot of Jouef /Eggerbahn and Lilliput stuff still around then)
20 FINGERS AL-glad you could spare us a few minutes[swg]-enjoyed the stuff on head end cars,not a common phenomenon over here-obviously a function of operating a single-track network over long distances as opposed to the milk-runs we have over here
DAVE-Hi how are you ?-Obviously a busy day at the office so sit back & chill for a while-I see you use S.U.V & Numbskull in the same sentence,is that not a tautology ?
BK-Welcome back dear boy,glad you enjoyed the Pikestuff-Now that you are a gentleman of leisure you may be considering a hobby..........look no further.....
A layout similar to [4:-)][oX)]TOMS S-Capades would fit very neatly on a 24"x48" board in `N` gauge..try a toe in the water,you won`t be disappointed..
O.K-looks like the moonlight mile for me,enough evangelism for one night-take care chaps,you never know whats out there.
speak soon,nick [C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

A fine Post from West Coast S Dave - almost like old times. Just a bit shy on the "inclusive side," but a well done contribution nonetheless![tup][tup]

Driving and drivers ... [yeah] a topic unto itself, eh[?] Getting far worse out there . . . .

BK Nice to know you are back and also "wanted!" Obviously the decisions we make in life are OURS to make and OURS to live with. So all the opinions and "two cents worth" that come from others can simply be lumped into one sack. YOU and only YOU make the final decision regarding what YOU intend to do with YOUR future. And yes, it is nice to be wanted, but only for the RIGHT reasons!

Lars Soggy toilet paper[?] Really! Check out my profile and you'll see the three things I dislike the most . . . .

Steak is ready and the draught of the day is Coors Light, okay[?]

Dave That's quite a commitment and I wonder how many of the other guys would take a days vacation to guarantee availability for our 1st Year Anniversary celebration[?] That speaks for itself![tup][tup][tup] And of course the "free lunch" doesn't hurt either![swg]

I'm running way behind in my acnowledgments and please forgive me if I've skipped over anyone. With the bride at home, well . . . . there are OTHER things to do![swg]

Spent a few hours preparing the garden for planting. Which means, tilling. I hate that . . . the tiller is a "monster" machine that drags my sorry butt around the garden until I've had it! However, it's done and I'm beat . . . I'm on my 4th Coors Light if that tells you anything![swg]

CM3 You really hit the "funny bone" with that comment of yours regarding the exotic dancers![tup][swg] Still grinning . . . .

Rob Appreciate the continuing dialogue via Email and the fne Posts you contribute! Even if when "Count Robulla" is lurking in the shadows of night, its' the thought that counts (get it - Count?)[swg]]

Doug I think you are victim of a conspiracy - and there are those who are prdding me to Tweeeeeeet you for Cruel and not so usual humor. Additionally, these "same forces" are targeting Wolfman Pete for his rather lame excuses of late (can't say if I blame them!!) - anyway, I'd be careful with the jokes if I were you.[tdn]

Okay, boyz, time for me to fire up the grill. Steak nite at the Haus tonight. Nice thick Black Angus beef - ummmmmmmmmmm um, and of course another brew to go wiith it.

Later, Gents![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[LoveDomes]

G'day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

Now I've gotten it figured out - BK IS preoccupied!! (reference to my comments on Tom's "other thread."

Calling you back from retirement, huh[?] They obviously know a good thing when they see it. But, I'll tell ya this - it's one thing to be called back in emergency situations (nothing short of war, in my case!), it's quite another when it has to do with making the company more bucks and perhaps one or two at the top look good. Just my thoughts . . . .

Outstanding submission on the hobby day stuff, Tom! Figured you'd come up with a sure fire "winnah," and you did! That selection really puts it all together for those of us who really don't know "diddly squat" about the other guys "toys!"[swg]

Glad you liked that Hustle Muscle pix and data spread, Rob The web site is chock full of good stuff as well. The URL is: http://www.gnrhs.org/hustle_muscle.htm

Also, I didn't know those "Canadian hoppers" are called Trudeau. I guess the airport in Montreal isn't enough, huh[?][swg] I know, I know - that came way after the hoppers.

Ditto on the greetings to fellow "Stool Members" that BK mentioned.[tup]

Al I must break the news to you, softly - WILL YOU PULEEEEEZE STOP WITH THE BLANKETY-BLANK EXTRA-LONG POSTS!!!![?][?][?] Soft enough[?][swg]

Nick I sure hope the day isn't that far off when you'll be able to join some of us with some real-life-toasting-roasting-and having a great ole time![tup] You are indeed one of a kind and qutie a 'shipmate.'[tup] Always enjoy your offerings . . . AND support of our leader, Captain Tom! Cheers! Drinks on me - ring it, Boris!

Pete Ok, that's about all we can handle with the excuses. Next it will be the dog ate the computer![swg] Beer in the keyboard; down time with the NEW hook up; visitng the wife's relatives - good grief Charlie Brown - what next[?] Drinks on Pete! - that's just gotta be a Tweetable offense, somewhere, huh - Tom[?]

I'm still laughing at that comment by Coal-what's-his-face regarding the

QUOTE: "The best exotic dancers in western North Dakota."

Been there and done that a few times 'round this ole world of ours.[swg] I remember there was this place in . . . .

Nice work with the Lionel Doug! Unfortunately, the jokes are beginning to react sorta like soggy toilet paper - they don't get it![swg]

Ok- I've rambled on long enough. Fix me a steak, willya Tom[?] I know the menu doesn't kick in 'til Thursday, but I've got a taste for a thick sirloin - a one pounder will do with some garlic bread. Ummmmmmmmm Um. That and a pitcher of brew will do me just fine. Skip the fries - I have a thing about the "French" these days![swg]

Until the next time!

Lars

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the gang... Indeed Tom, I have April 12th aside, got my leave request in for that day, have several computers at my disposal.. good to go.. Had a hair rasising drive in from the Springs last night, blinding rain, ice and SUV's off the side of the highway every couple of miles or so and numbskulls who have no right to a driver's license, normally a two hour trip, took me over four.

Ok, lunch for all, my tab until 1630 hrs PST.. eat up

Rob, Thanks for the correction on those CN Tunnel Motors and the lead on that mysterious UP unit, I suspect some type of rebuild as well with the Dynamic Brake feature being omitted, also the designation "Y" above the road number was also absent, this is used to identify a unit restricted to local/switching that might otherwise have a conflicting number of a unit so numbered for road service, UP's numbering system is becoming more complex the the one used by the SP.

Keeping with GN theme of late, SP also considered limited heavy electric operations, here's the details:


Cab Forwards or Electric Motors, this was question posed by mechanical,operating, engineering officials in 1925 upon resumption of construction of the No. 2 track over Donner Pass. Though a vast improvement from the orginal 1867 alignement, a ten thousand feet bore was required beneath Mt. Judda, it would be known as the Summit Tunnel, grade and curves were likewise reduced at the expense of a longer route seven point five miles in length.

SP was very closely watching the electrification projects of the Milwaukee and Great Northern, could this be a feisible option? SP had the foresight to set generous clearances over the forty seven mile longe new line whith the intent of double track at a later date, which was never accomplished. SP contacted Baldwin, General Electric and sought electrical engineering help from Stanford University to a prepare a electrification proposal for the Donner Pass line, speciffically Truckee to Roseville.

Additionaly, groups of the above were dispatched to the Milwaukee and Great Northern to observe and operate the plant, equiptment and to be involved with actual operations in a variety of conditions. The estimated twenty five million dollar initial outlay was expected to drop over time as the project was amortorized and the plant paid off. If it had been done, a twenty five hundred volt system employing off the shelf technology from General Electric and Power by Baldwin would further reduced long term expenses.
SP was impressed at the tonnage ratings possible and the cool/dense air found along the Donner Route would only improved the operation of electric motors which would have been virtual copies of those used by the Great Northern and Milwaukee, complete with regenetive braking a precursor to the dynamic brake.

The sizeable expenture of upgrading the Truckee and Roseville yards to accomidate power changes as well as a specific new department devoted to maintaince and operation and revised union requirements dimmed any serious further study on the matter, now estimated to exceed by a wide margin the orginal twenty five million cost the dicision was made to order additonal Cab Forwards in 1927 and 28 for use on the new line and forgo further electric operation studies. By 1928 those involved in the project were forced to take a vow of silence. In the ensuing years more details have come to light that suggest Baldwin itself undermined the effort, fearing the future loss of sales in heavy, thus expensive steam orders to one of its largest and most generous long time customers and a inability to reach mutual agreements with local/state power providers on kilowatt hours, all of whom had close ties with the rival Western Pacific and Staunch San Francisco poltical interest opposed to the Southern Pacific.


Dave

[BudKarr]

Greetings Captain Tom and all assembled!

I will have a hot coffee with a "splash" of something to make it interesting . . .

Mid-week and we are back at our mountain retreat. Wonderful time away and we will be packing up for yet another sojourn south. Much to do and details to take care of, all requiring personal attention. Ah, life in the not-so-fast-lane![swg]

I have been unable to stay current with all of the postings, but plan to get going on them. However, I see that a couple of guys have been given leaves of absence from the “Legion of the Lost!” Also, add my congratulations to jlampke John on the occasion of the birth of a son![tup][tup][tup] Cause for a round, even if belatedly! Set ‘em up, barkeep![tup]

Outstanding submissions from many as the “best bar ‘n grill in cyber space” keeps rolling along.[swg] Especially enjoyed the Great Northern Railway and had every intention of contributing, but alas, our trip was extended a bit, therefore, the best of intentions – as they say.[swg]

Noticed that the Sunday photos were also outstanding and the model trains segment from Sir Nick via Captain Tom was absolutely fascinating. Today’s “Pike Perspectives” from Captain Tom rounded out the story quite well. Good show, both of you![tup][tup][tup]

Appears as if the momentum is moving positively for the 12th of April’s 1st year anniversary celebration for the bar. At this writing, we should be back at the Chalet (home) and fully prepared to participate. My congratulations to Lars, fellow “bookend,” for a grand idea and good job![tup][tup][tup]

I must add my chagrin to the extra long postings put forth by one passengerfan Al. Must they be that long? For those of us who from time to time must scroll though information in order to catch up or find a particular posting, those “data dumps” make it all the more difficult. PLEASE be a bit considerate of your fellow travelers. I add my positive comments too for your endeavors. I doubt that anyone can or will rival your expertise with the streamliner information and passenger cars in general, however, you just may be creating more adversity than not with the long postings.

A bit of personal news. I am now “officially” retired having received the “papers” in person on during our last trip south. However, seems that my former boss wants me to return to Europe, however, this time they will provide a ticket for my wife-to-be, along with all accommodations and expenses along the way and back. The timeframe would be after our wedding – of course! – and would have us gone for at least a month.

We are mulling it over, as it would be something quite different for the both of us and surely make the away time much more tolerable. However, and this is a biggie, there is a security issue involved and I am unwilling to subject my love to the things I lived with and actually took for granted during the years I did what I did. Nice to be wanted, eh[?][swg]

My greetings to fellow "Order of the Stools" members Rob – Doug – CM3 – Lars – Al – Pete & Nick – if I have left someone out, there must be a reason![swg]


Barkeep, set ‘em up again and have Boris ring the bell!

BK

[siberianmo]

Gentlemen!

My contribution for this “Pike Perspective’s Day!” You may wi***o refer to the Sunday Pix from Nick on page 286 . . . . .
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=286&TOPIC_ID=35270

OO gauge and British Model Trains


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.


OO gauge


Hornby Railways Flying Scotsman locomotive on an OO gauge layout
(photo: Les Chatfield – Wikimedia Commons)

OO gauge model railways are the most popular standard in the United Kingdom, being one of several 4 mm scale standards (4 mm to the foot (305 mm), or 1:76.2) in use, but the only one served by mass market manufacturers. OO uses 16.5 mm gauge track, which is inaccurate for 4 mm scale (it is accurate for HO scale). Many experienced modellers therefore find the OO standard inadequate, and they tend to model using the older EM gauge or the modern, exact scale P4 scale.

History

Double-O scale model railways were first launched by Bing in 1921 as 'The Table Railway', running on 16.5mm track and scaled at 4 mm to the foot (305 mm). In 1922, the first models of British prototypes appeared. Initially all locomotives were powered by clockwork, but the first electric power appeared in the Autumn of 1923.

OO gauge was based on HO scale (3.5 mm:1 ft (305 mm)), and kept the same gauge. However, the large propulsion mechanisms could not fit into the small British prototypes, so the scale was enlarged to (4 mm:1 ft (305 mm)) without altering the gauge. This means that the scale gauge represents 4'1½", seven inches narrower than the prototype 4'8½" gauge. It is also used to represent the 5'3" Irish broad gauge where it is a scale 13½ inches too narrow. This difference is noticeable, especially when looking down the track.

In 1932, the Bing company collapsed, but the Table Railway continued to be manufactured by the new Trix company. However, Trix decided to use a new standard of 3.5mm to the foot or 1:87, and this scale came to be known as 'HO'. (It is thought that this may have originated as 'Half-O' gauge, but there is no proof of this.) In 1938, the Meccano Company launched a new range of OO models under the trade name of Hornby DublO, and the OO scale has remained as the UK's most popular ever since.

In the United States, Lionel Corporation introduced a range of OO models in 1938 as well. It did not prove popular and only remained on the market until 1942. OO gauge was quickly eclipsed by HO scale.

OO today

The two main manufacturers of ready-to-run model railways are Hornby Railways and Bachmann Branchline, a subsidiary of Bachmann Trains. A third major manufacturer of accessories (particularly track) is Peco.

External links

Manufacturers

• Bachmann Branchline
• Dapol
• Heljan
• Hornby Railways
• Lima
• Peco
• Duha

Tri-ang Railways

Triang Railways was an English manufacturer of toy trains, one of the elements of the Tri-ang company.


Tri-Ang model railroad set from 1961 (GNU Free Documentation)

History

Tri-ang name

The brothers George and Joseph Lines made wooden toys in the Victorian age, their company being G & J lines Ltd. Joseph was the active partner while George went into farming. Joseph (or Joe) had four sons. Three of these — William, Walter and Arthur Edwin Lines — formed Lines Bros Ltd soon after World War I. Three Lines make a triangle, hence the Tri-ang. Arthur's son, Richard Lines, was largely responsible for the Tri-ang Railways system.

Foundation of Tri-ang Railways


A 1960s Book of Trains. (fair use)

Rovex Plastics Ltd was founded just after the World War II in 1946 by Alexander Venetzian, who made toys for Marks & Spencer. Venetzian was asked to develop an electric toy train set for Christmas 1950. He delivered the product but although the company had found larger premises in a former Brewery in Richmond, it was constrained financially. Line Bros were looking to expand into railways and so they purchased Rovex. Their products would be sold under the Tri-ang Railways name from 1951. To give room for development they moved the company now Rovex Scale Models Ltd to a brand new factory built at Margate, in Kent, in 1954.

The success of Tri-ang mean that British competitors Trix and Hornby-Dublo were affected. In 1964, Hornby Dublo, a division of Meccano Ltd, had stopped production and Meccano Ltd invited Lines Bros. Ltd to buy them out. Tri-ang purchased the company including a large amount of stock. The combined toy railways was marketed as Triang-Hornby although the vast majority of the models was all Tri-ang. The Hornby name being more established and recognised, the Tri-ang part was later dropped and it was sold as Hornby Railways.

Tri-ang later made TT gauge models as well as OO/HO gauge. The 3mm Society[1] supports those who still model Tri-ang TT.

Australian and New Zealand models

A number of Tri-ang models specific to Australia were produced by Moldex in Melbourne during the 1960s, including

• NSW 1955 type suburban electric motor car and driving trailer car.
• A blue version of NSW 1955 type suburban cars pretending to be a faux Victoria EMU was planned but never produced
• Victorian B class double-ended diesel also came in 'Transaustralia' livery.

Other models were manufactured in Auckland, New Zealand, but were mainly the same as those made in England but there were interesting variations

The Australian and New Zealand models were produced in OO gauge only.

South African models

A limited number of models were manufactured in Durban, South Africa. These are very rare.


Hornby Railways

Hornby Railways is the leading brand of model railway in the United Kingdom, and its company roots date back to 1901, when founder Frank Hornby received a patent for his Meccano construction toy.

Hornby, then known as Meccano Ltd, released its first train, a clockwork O gauge model, in 1920. An electric train followed in 1925, operating on AC power, and Hornby switched to DC in 1929.

From 1927 to 1929, Hornby sold clockwork trains in the United States as well as in the UK. Although the trains, manufactured in a factory in Elizabeth, New Jersey, were colourful and attractive, they failed in the marketplace because several established U.S. firms undercut its prices. In late 1929, Meccano Ltd. sold its New Jersey factory to the A. C. Gilbert Company, and Hornby trains had vanished from the U.S. market by 1930. The leftover inventory was sold in Canada and in the UK, and some of the tooling was reused for products in other markets.

Hornby introduced its OO gauge trains in 1938, under the trade name Hornby Dublo, only to discontinue all train production the next year due to World War II. Production resumed after the war but did not reach full capacity until 1948. The locomotives were die-cast, and the cars were generally made of tinplate.

Like its counterparts Bassett-Lowke and Exley in the UK and Lionel and American Flyer in the US, Hornby thrived in the first half of the decade but struggled in the late 1950s. In 1959, Hornby abandoned 3-rail track in favor of more realistic two-rail track.


A 1960s book of trains. (fair use)

In 1964, the parent company of rival Tri-ang Railways purchased Meccano Ltd., and merged Hornby and Tri-ang into Tri-ang Hornby. The former Hornby line was discontinued in favour of Tri-ang's less costly plastic designs. The former Hornby products and modules were sold to G&R Wrenn. In 1967 Hornby was merged internally into Rovex Industries, which by 1969 was Rovex Tri-ang Ltd.

The Tri-ang group was disbanded in 1971 when Meccano Ltd's owner Lines Bros. filed for bankruptcy. The former Tri-ang Hornby was sold to Dunbee-Combex-Marx becoming Hornby Railways in 1972. By 1976 Hornby was facing challenges from Palitoy and Airfix both of whom were producing high quality detailed models. Detail on the models was upgraded to make the product line more attractive to adult hobbyists. A multiple train control system named Zero 1 was introduced in the early 1980s. This analogue system was a forerunner to the Digital Command Control (DCC) system, an NMRA open standard, which appeared in the 1990s.

By 1980 the market was extremely tough and Dunbee-Combex-Marx was liquidated placing Rovex in receivership. In 1980 Hornby became ""Hornby Hobbies"" and in 1981 a management buyout saw the company back on a sound footing. It went public in 1986.

By the early 1990s Hornby again faced competition from newcomers like Dapol and established foreign manufacturers including Lima and Bachmann Industries. Manufacturing was moved to Guangdong province in China in 1995, and was complete by 1999, cutting costs and improving quality according to the company. As part of the process Hornby also bought in some of Dapol's products and also some of the old Airfix moulds (by then owned by Dapol). Train sets associated with Thomas the Tank Engine and Harry Potter (the "Hogwarts Express") have been particularly profitable ventures. In September 2003 Hornby released its first steam-powered OO gauge locomotive, a model of the record-breaking Mallard. Several other "Live Steam" locomotives have now been produced.

Since then, Hornby has bought Lima, an Italian model railway equipment manufacturer that previously acquired Jouef, a French manufacturer. Its items have yet to be integrated into the main Hornby products list.

References

• Schneider, Lewis (May 2000). Hornby's Made in USA Trains. Classic Toy Trains, page 84.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Many thanks to all for the GN-related material. I enjoyed the photographs - always nice to see pictures of places I have been. I recall listening to a radio station in Monot when Iw as there. One of their ads was for a local establishm,ent which boasted, "The best exotic dancers in western North Dakota." 'nuff said!

GNs SD45s were delivered between 1966 and 1968. They carried r/ns 400-426.
Hustle Muscle is still with us - she was preserved from the scrappers.

Since today is Pike Perspectives, let's talk a little bit about coal-related items in the Lionel memory book. One of my favorite Lionel models was the one they did of the FM Trainmaster. Two road names I recall here are Lackawanna and Virginian. A friend had a VGN Trainmaster which, IMHO, was one of the classiest looking items Lionel ever produced. As for cars, I recall short coalcars in red and white livery lettered for "Lionel Lines," maybe also for PRR? I did have several of the bigger cars lettered for Lehigh Valley. Thet made up a halfway decent-looking train. In the area of accessories, Lionel had a coal loader which was a conveyor that scooped up coal and loaded it into cars. Last, Lionel also produced "coal." for cars, loaders, etc. It came in cloth bags.

Last, some of you may remember that the Richerster, NY, Police Athletic Leage (PAL) had a monstrous show layout which was all Lionel. The layout featured different seasons of the year. The winter scene was based on a large coal mine - lovely stuff.

The following URL will take you to a PDF file which describes the layout. Check it out, you'll find it truly interesting

http://www.ci.rochester.ny.us/prhs/docs/ttrainroom.pdf

work safe

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Another late start for me and it will continue through the end of the week – Spring Break![swg]

Let me run through the acknowledgments for the Posts of last night:

Nick – Al – Pete – Doug ‘n Rob!! Many THANX for the info, participation and drinks![tup][tup][tup]

Doug Many thanx for kicking off "Pike Perspective's Day!" with that Lionel piece!![tup] Joke on the other hand . . . . . <groan>


Try as we might, there apparently is NO WAY to curb 20 Fingers when he’s on a roll! It’s truly a “mixed bag,” on one hand we love the “stuff,” but detest the length! Al, Al, Al what is it that you don’t understand about putting this stuff into Parts/Sections[?][?][?] Having said all of that – many THANX for participating in our “theme” – Great Northern Railway!

I’ve read everything to this point, but simply am running short on time to provide my daily “blurb” to one an all. So let me just say that I appreciate the GN contributions, the banter and all the rest![tup]

A “12th Fund!” begun by Wolfman – great idea! I’ll use the bottom drawer of “Tilla” for it.[swg] Email received and responded to – Thanx![tup]

Ya know, there’s so much available for the GN that we could easily fill up today’s agenda with more of that fine road. Why not[?][swg]

I too noticed the increase of the “JOs” Posting on this Forum. It’s becoming quite a pain in the patoot just to see these inane surveys and the like. Exercise your options, guyz, and don’t “feed” ‘em![tdn]

Okay guyz, remember there is NO THEME today – but we are going to have some hobby “stuff’ for Pike Perspective’s Day!


Catch y’all later![tup]


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Mid-week and Wednesday – halfway there! Start the day with a hot cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Daily Wisdom

On the range, a man’s home is apt to be his saddle blanket ‘n the first thing you know, he’s moved it to Texas.[swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pike Perspective’s Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) wanswheel Mike Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 05:24:38 (287) Theme - GN & URL

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 05:34:37 (287) Theme – GN & joke

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 06:29:43 (287) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(4) jlampke John Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 06:33:35 (287) John in the AM

(5) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 07:44:42 (287) Al speaks!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 07:50:07 (287) RR from Yesteryear Ad

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 08:02:33 (287) Theme – GN & other good stuff!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 09:26:22 (287) Acknowledgments, etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 10:00:02 (287) RRs from Yesteryear – GN

(10) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 15:36:07 (287) Theme – GN Pix, etc.!

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 16:57:15 (287) reply to Lars

(12) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 17:11:06 (288) Theme – GN Streamlined Head End cars

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 17:23:16 (288) Theme – GN Streamlined Dome cars

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 18:35:58 (288) Acknowledgment, etc.

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 18:42:25 (288) Nick at Nite!

(16) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 18:46:29 (288) Theme – GN Streamlined Coaches & others

(17) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 20:41:04 (288) Theme – More GN Streamliners

(18) pwolfe Pete Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 21:12:36 (288) The Wolfman Howls!

(19) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 21:28:53 (288) Theme – Story from the Barn, etc. & joke!

(20) pwolfe Pete Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 22:37:26 (288) Pete’s P.S.

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 22:41:55 (288) Inclusive Post, etc.!

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Mar 2006, 23:09:06 (288) Classic Diesels #17 – Rebuilders, part IV



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 26th thru April 1st:Major League (1989) starring Tom Beringer, Charlie Sheen & Corbin Bernson – and – Bull Durham (1988) starring: Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins. SHORT: Plane Nuts (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have my two light breakfasts, and then skee-daddle off for another fun-filled day at work! Nice addition to your re-builders series Mr. Rob. You do a good job of introducing us to all kinds of railroad aspects, and it's appreciated. Pete, yeah, the old magazines just keep rolling in over here! I got a 1930 Railroad Man magazine yesterday, and ya'll be seeing a few things from it. One of the articles asks the question of whether or not radio would replace the telegraph!

Here's my humble Pike contribution for today:

Milwaukee Road Electrics on the Lionel Lines by Allen W. Miller

In 1957, Lionel manufactured an EP-5 electric-outline model (center) painted in Milwaukee Road colors. A portion of the catalog cover illustrates the EP-5 and two other engines.


“In appearance it is exactly like the new monster locomotive which haul the C.M. & St. P. trains over the electrified stretch of the railroad through the Rocky Mountains.” – Lionel 1925 catalog description of No. 380 bi-polar electric locomotive (introduced in 1923).

Electrification of rail cars was really nothing new for Joshua Lionel Cowen, patriarch of the Lionel Corporation of New York City. Since the dawn of the century, Cowen and his colleagues had been working on a fully-electrified rail system – in miniature, of course! Although Cowen professed a sentimental attachment to steam power, he also wanted his Lionel Lines to stay current with the times. So, when many American railroads embarked on electrification in the teens and beyond, Cowen made certain that this technological advancement was adequately represented in locomotive models his firm manufactured.

In the period between the two world wars, Lionel produced electric-outline engines loosely patterned after three specific prototypes: the New York Central’s S-2 locomotive; the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul’s EP-2 Olympian bi-polar engine; and the New York Central’s T-1 boxcab. These engines were manufactured in the firm’s self-designated “Standard Gauge,” and operated on three-rail track measuring 2 1/8 inches between the outside of the running rails. They were boisterous, rugged, and imposing attention=getters on any living room floor or train platform. Of the three models, perhaps the grandest of all in terms of size, prestige, and ultimate collector value was Lionel’s version of the CMSt.P&P (Pacific was added to the name in 1928) EP-s bi-polar locomotive.

The prototype bi-polar Olympian was introduced in 1919. It was a massive 200 ton-plus powerhouse – 76 feet long, equipped with 12 motors in a three-section articulated body, and outfitted with a 2-4-4-4-4-4-2 wheel arrangement to distribute the load. These locomotives saw service in the mountainous regions of Washington state.

Lionel’s premier bi-polar model was introduced in 1923 bearing No. 380. This engine was followed in 1925 by a slightly smaller and more modestly priced version: the No. 10. The creative spin of Lionel’s catalog copywriters notwithstanding, these models bore faint resemblance to their designed prototype. They had 0-4-0 wheel configuration, which left them 20 wheels short of the real bi-polar. They also came up lacking on the measurement scale in terms of overall length, and they had neither three articulated sections of the real thing nor operating pantographs. Save for their distinctive round-end-hood ends, one would be hard-pressed to favorably compare them with the real Olympian. Nevertheless, they were impressive additions to any toy train layout, and they were popular sellers. Furthermore, the first version of the Lionel’s 380 did sport a maroon paint scheme reminiscent of the maroon and orange colors applied to an actual CMStP&P engine, although Lionel’s model was not lettered for that of any other real railroad.

At 13 ½ inches long, the 380 was a large bi-polar electric model, but it wasn’t Lionel’s largest. That distinction would be bestowed on the Standard Gauge No. 381E, released in 1928, which measured 18 ½ inches long and 8 ½ inches high, and boasted a 4-4-4 wheel configuration. The 81E was the largest electric-outline engine Lionel has ever produced – then or now – and even though it never bore Milwaukee Road colors, it nevertheless was designed to represent that railroad’s famed bi-polar.

In the years leading up to and beyond World War II, O Gauge electric trains eventually replaced Standard Gauge as the “scale” for the majority of train enthusiasts. After 1945, Lionel manufactured models based on four prototype electric-outline locomotives, the famed GG-1 of the Pennsylvania Railroad, the Virginian’s GE E-33 Rectifier, the New Haven’s GE EP-5 Rectifier, and the somewhat generic GE 80-ton boxcab switcher. Of these, only the EP-5 has ever seen Milwaukee Road colors – despite the fact that the real Milwaukee Road never actually owned an EP-5!

About the closest thing to an EP-5 to regularly operate on Milwaukee Road trackwork was the “Little Joe” locomotive originally built by General Electric in 1946 for export to Joseph Stalin’s Russia (hence its moniker). That deal fell through, and the Milwaukee Road picked up part of the inventory. The “Little Joe” resembled an EP-5 in cab and body style, but it was 20 feet longer than an EP-5, and had protruding pilot trucks. Over the years, Lionel erroneously referred to several of its EP-5 models as “Little Joes,” somewhat compounding the error by never applying that designation to the Milwaukee Road version – an association which would, at least have been reasonably appropriate. Add the fact that real EP-5’s operating in the United State had two sets of six-wheel trucks, while Lionel’s model had four-wheel trucks, and it’s apparent that the Milwaukee Road EP-5 from Lionel was in some ways more the product of creative “Imagineering” than real world blueprints!

Still, Lionel’s 2351 Milwaukee Road EP-5 from 1957-58 was a credible example of what might have been. The yellow, maroon, and black attire was striking, and the overall dimensions were close to accurate.

The EP-5 reappeared in 1976-77 as No. 8558, with orange substituted for yellow in the paint scheme.

What these toy trains lacked in fidelity to their respective prototypes, they more than made up for in play value for young and old alike, and most have become treasured collectibiles for Lionel devotees determined to preserve the heritage of their beloved “fallen flag” or their favorite toy train manufacturer. – Summer 1996 Vintage Rails

[:I] A blonde, wanting to earn some extra money, decided to hire herself out as a "handy-woman" and started canvassing a nearby well-to-do neighborhood.
She went to the front door of the first house, and asked the owner if he had any odd jobs for her to do.
"Well, I guess I could use somebody to paint my porch," he said. „How much will you charge me?"
The blonde quickly responded, "How about $50?"
The man agreed and told her that the paint and everything she would need was in the garage The man's wife, hearing the conversation, said to her husband, "Does she realize that our porch goes all the way around the house?"
He responded, "That's a bit cynical, isn't it?"
The wife replied, "You're right. I guess I'm starting to believe all those dumb blonde jokes we've been getting by e-mail lately."
A short time later, the blonde came to the door to collect her money.
"You're finished already?" the husband asked.
"Yes," the blonde replied, "and I had paint left over, so I gave it two coats."
Impressed, the man reached into his pocket for the $50.00 and handed it to her.
"And by the way," the blonde added, "it's not a Porch, it's a Lexus!!!" [:I]

[trolleyboy]

Wel I see that Pete is still with us so Leon a Bantham's for him and a Keith's for myself. Gotta keep tila full donchaknow. [:D][swg]

Seeing as how meger a bit I had for the GN theme ( sorry guys ) [sigh] I'll drop Pt 4 of the rail rebuilders on you this evening. two of the smaller lesser known ones this time out.

CLASSIC DIESEL'S # 17 RAIL RE-BUILDERS PT 4

Chrome Crankshaft Inc


Chrome Crankshaft of Los Angelas was initially just a supplier of reconditione dlocomotive parts ( all makes ). This was their business for many years, they naturally fell into the business of buying up old retired locomotives to "part out ". After that it was a given that they would buy locomotives for resale.

Renaming the company to Chrome Locomotive, they purchased the old Rock Island shop at Silvis ( East Moline ), Illinois, after the Rock went bankrupt in 1980.Since then Chrome has been reconditioning locomotives for resale ( alot of the rocks engines passed through their plant ).The company also will perform contract rebuilding for the railroads.

Chrome's mosy significant rebuilding that they have undertaken so far,was the reconditioning of four FL9's owned by the Connecticut DOT, which are used on the Metro North system.FL9's 5005,5026,5049,& 5057 were repainted into their original Mcguinnes New Haven colours and given the new road numbers 2002,2006,2019,2023. For the most part Chrome is still doing parts and acting as a buyer seller of old used loco's.

Peaker Services Inc

Peaker Services Inc, of Brighton Michigan derives it's name and diesel experience from rebuilding EMD 567 series and 645 series engines. These engines are used in peaher powerplants, to provide suplimental electricity for peak periods. Many small electrical utilities use such sytems from EMD which are almost the same as the prime movers of the same series used for locomotives.

Peaker's move toreconditioning locomotive prime movers was a natural and simple addition to their business. They began to work on locomotives in the early 80's concentrating primarily on switchers. In 1981 Peaker rebuilt GTW's GP18 4952 for the now defunct Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority, a commuter service that ran between Detroit and Pontiac. The unit was given a general reconditioning and was derated back to GP9 specs ( 1750hp )they caklled this a GP19. They haven't done many other major refits but they do supply a parts supply and rebuilding option for the older ( but still common EMD prime movers )


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. A round of Keith's for all those who want it, and here's as a sack of quarters for the coal scuttle as well. Wonderful info today folks,another fine and successful theme day. I don't feel so bad that I wasn't able to come up with much for it as you all seem to have covered the nitty and the gritty of it. 5x[tup][:D][wow]


Tom What can I say the ball got rolling early and often on this theme day, I'm not supprised as the GN was and still is a big railfan favourite, even 30 years after it was absorbed into the big green machine.Hard to believe that the GN / NP / Burlinton Route merger happen in 1970 to form the Burlington Northern.[:O] [wow] My other meger add to this theme day is the Hustle Muscle that lars so appropriatly supplied the photo's from. Seems that it was a railfan/ crew nickname for the SD45's fast big and powerful 3600hp tops for the day they were built. GN painted the slogan on lead unit 400 not long after it was purchased. 400 was the only SD45 to get the slogan even carried into it's big sky blue days. happily the ole 400 and one of the GN's unique NW5 switchers are preserved and run excursion trains around the Twin Cities in museum service[tup]


Tom Nice shot of that Trudeau hopper as they are called here. Still tions of them out there still in all those bright though now weathered billboard type paint jobs.Yes Tom that should have been a numbered Classic #16 if you are keeping count. [;)]

Al Holy cow [bow] it'll take me a dat or three to wade through that lot, great info on the skimming however.

Doug as always some good info. Loved the latest tunnels part on the CP. I'm sure it tweeked Sir Tom. Also yes I do understand most of those terms you listed. many of them do exist at our museum. Good job [tup]

lars Already we are getting some input from some of the old guard, thanks to your emailing initiative. Free round for lars leon the next time he's in. Also loved those shots of GN 400. [:D]

Pete Enjoyed your follow up on the British pullmans and the additional MR info as well. I'm glad that you've enjoyed the rebuilding series as well.

Mike Great info on both Buck aand the GN. Good to have you back on board occationally [tup] we've missed those well written articles and their coresponding urls.

Nick Go for the GN oprange and green the big sky blue's just too wishwashy a paint job for Our Places biological switcher [:D] I'm glad that the emails i've sent you are enjoyed, seeing as how they are wrong on sooooooooo many levels. [swg]


Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Another Bathams LEON it is on good form tonite.

DOUG Another great tale from the Magazine [tup]The 40s seemed good era for railroad mags. I have some of theRailway Magazine(British) in England from that period although they were published Bi-Monthly and of less pages owing to paper shortages during and after the war they contain many fascinating articles including photos and brief discriptions of the Top-Link loco drivers of the day.
Liked the joke [:D][tup].

AH NICK you have got me thinking about the Hornby 2-6-4 3rd tanks I have found a web-site and it seems two other tanks were 80054 &80059 Many thanks for bring back good memories, it seem only yesterday that we were in that small pub in Hinckley although it is over 30 years ago .
The web- site is
http://img.cryst.bbk.ac.uk/dublo/catalog.htm.
I found this a good site for British models of the late 50s early 60s PETE.

[Anonymous]

Good evening Leon and friends. I believe we had yet another succesful theme day in spite of sparse posting earlier in the day. We can always count on CM3 to provide information relative the the coal industry, and Lars keeps adding more and more everytime he posts. Thoroughly enjoyed the Hustle Muscle info and posts. Thanks Tom for going to all the trouble you do with the Wikpedia re-formatting. It looked great! Ad then there was AL, and all I can say is [wow][wow][wow][wow] !!!! Four long Big G articles on streamlined Head-end, Dome, Coach and Sleeping cars! I have to admit, I need to set aside a half hour to read it all! Absolutely amazing! Then we had a visit from Peter, whose comments are always incisive, complimentary and helpful. Great job guys !

Here's my humble final contribution to the day:

From the pages of September 1945 Railroad Magazine

Ten acres of snow-covered rock and earth tumbled down a Cascade peak above Wellington, Wash., on March 1st, 1910, hurling two Great Northern Railway trains three hundred feet into a canyon below. While more than a hundred people perished in the wreckage, I was one of the thirty-six who escaped alive. Yet I came so near death then, I still remember clearly the details of the accident and the hours that passed before we were rescued.

The slide occurred during one of the wildest storms that hit this section of the Cascade Division. Tracks through the mountain area were exposed to damage by quick changes in weather. An eight-mile tunnel cut through the rugged hills protects the passage of trains now; but then, we were constantly on the lookout for shifting winds or rising temperatures that might send avalanches on the rampage. However, in spite of our precautions, none of us were ready for what did happen.

Wellington was a railroad town huddled close to the summit of the mountain. Most of its inhabitants were tough railroaders and boomers, and they had to be. It was dangerous work riding the tops of ice-bound boxcars, setting brakes by hand, since airbrakes weren’t used then. Every winter a twelve or fourteen-foot snowfall leveled the roof tops, and virtually buried the place for three to four months. Its houses, stores and the local saloon were connected by a labyrinth of snowsheds – snakelike wooden shelters which made it possible for people to get around without using snowshoes.

To the east of town, a three-mile tunnel, built in 1905, burrowed directly under the summit and exited at Cascade, there beginning the downward slope into Wenatchee. It is said the one man gave his life for every fifty feet of progress made in this bore. Although I don’t know how true this is, I have seen the crude graves above the portals to prove that the casualties were numerous.

Heading in the opposite direction from Wellington, the rails angled down the tortuous descent to Seattle. A rocky hill loomed above the double track, and the land dropped below for three hundred feet ending abruptly in a narrow ravine along which a swift creek flowed. The current was about thirty feet wide and shot over ledges and logs on its way down the valley. It was just at this point that the slide took place.

I had been running a trap line in the vicinity of Skyight Lake, about two miles from Wellington. Coming into town for a little holiday grog and companionship, I wound up at Joe King’s saloon, the social center of the village. One could get redeye there – a whiskey of doubtful antecedents but no uncertain results – and perhaps some gab with one of the dance-hall girls.

Early that morning, the weather had taken a bad turn. There was about twelve feet of snow on the ground, when a warm Chinook blew up, accompanied by intermittent heavy showers. All these were omens of slides. Later news came through that the track was blocked near Embro, a whistle stop two miles west of Wellington. This meant the westbound Spokane Express was held on the double siding near town until the line could be cleared. A break-through was difficult and slow. Emergency crews sweated and swore, but the mud continued to slide over the steep embankment.

They were still struggling to shovel a way through when the Overland Mail pulled in. The road was still blocked so they stopped alongside the limited. As the afternoon wore on and it became dark, the passengers grew restless. The more adventurous walked back to Kings saloon, and with a few rounds of Joe’s special poison tucked behind their belts, they forgot their troubles. Others stayed in the coaches, and as timed passed the storm kept getting worse. The rain fell in torrents. The skies opened up with lightning flashes, while thunder rumbled just above the Cascade mountain tops.

At about eleven o’clock, someone discovered that mud and snow were beginning to shift on the steep hill rising up behind the saloon. “Let’s get out of here,” suggested a raw-boned logger, “before it’s too *** late.” “Where do we go from here?” queried another. “The whole east end of town will be under this slide if she’s starting to move behind King’s here.”

As the crowd began to realize the truth of this, they grew panicky. Part of the village was built close to the base of a steep hillside. Now it was a death trap. “How about the trains?” Joe King asked calmly. Quickly, the men decided that the stalled trains were the only safe place. Sheltered under the rocky crags, they were free from the threat of sliding mud and snow-drifts. Some of the crowd went out to warn those in the village, while the others pitted themselves against the gale and set out for the trains.

I found a cozy spot in the baggage-room with Harry Gannon, with whom I had a speaking acquaintance. Two passengers and Harry’s assistant had a fire going in the pot-bellied stove when we entered. The smell of fresh coffee added to my sense of security. The warm car was a comforting haven from the storm that was beating madly against the sliding doors.

Around midnight, the car was suddenly illuminated by a great flash; and before the racket of the thunder had stopped, our car leaned far out from the hillside as though drawn by a giant hand. A roaring came from above us, and while we strained back against the inner carside, we heard a sucking wind which proceeds the oncoming of an avalanche. My feelings were so acute that those seconds were drawn out into hours. Yet there was only time for someone to scream, “Oh, God!” when she hit us

Then it seemed as though we were being flipped over in the air like a tossed coin. I had a form hold on one of the mail-bin rods, but it was torn from my grasp as we rolled over and over. Like a man drowning, my whole past shot through my mind as if recorded on a film. The stove hit the ceiling with a sudden jolt and spewed red coals in all directions. There was a terrible symphony of rending wood and metal. Then stillness settled upon us and darkness, punctuated only by the glowing embers from a broken stove.

I lay quiet for a while, amazed to find myself alive. Some mail sacks had cushioned my fall. My face was bleeding, but only from a splinter that had been driven through my cheek. After some time, I heard a moan from the right. “Is anyone alive?” I yelled. “Help me,” came the reply. I struck a match and found Gannon pinned under a broken piece of roofing. When I got him free, he seemed all right. Together we stamped out the live coals that had been sprayed over the wreckage. The baggageman produced a hand torch, and we searched for the other passengers. All of them were already dead. Gannon’s assistant was impaled to the end of the car, his feet dangling grotesquely. The other two had been crushed by the hurtling equipment within the car. I’ve never forgotten Gannon’s face outlined in the torchlight, and the ghastly look in his eyes.

“We gotta dig out of here,: he said simply. “This air won’t last long.” “Okay,” I answered, “but which way do we dig? There may be tons of snow and rock on top of us, and d*mned if I can tell what position we are lying in.” He was silent for a minute. “But we can’t die like rats,” he replied, his voice rising higher in pitch. “Let’s start digging from this top side, anyway.”

So throwing snow to the back of the car, be burrowed away. We had a sizable hole made before we became exhausted. The rocks were too much for our waning strength, as the volume of air grew steadily less. We lay panting on the opposite side of the car, our hands bleeding. Above we heard the rescue crews at work. Shovels were biting into the snow and debris somewhere, but they sounded miles off. Our fear that they would be too late increased as it seemed to us that the sound receded instead of approaching. We yelled, and beat against the side of the coach with pieces of pipe, but fell back again all the more weary. It was no good. The infernal shovel noises were growing more difficult.

Gannon raised his head. Sweat was standing on his forehead in bright little beads. “They’ll never reach us in time, Mike,” he managed. “How about this, me first, then you?” Gannon turned his light on his service revolver. My lungs were bursting. My head felt as though there was something whirling round within it, threatening to break out through my skull at any minute. I heard peculiar swishing noises, and it was hard to tell what was real and what the imaginings of my overwrought senses. I was thinking seriously of assenting to his offer of a quick death, when suddenly my breath came easier. I wondered if this was another symptom of near suffocation, but my senses were clearing.

The creek,” I shouted, as the truth dawned on me. “We must have landed in its bed, and its washing the snow away.” “Then we’ll drown,” said Gannon in a dead voice. He still had his hand firm on his gun. The gurgling sound became more audible. It grew louder, and light began to show. Like madmen we tore at the battered side door, now directly over the running water. Our car had settled with this door over a small ledge in the bottom of the stream.

As soon as we had cleared a hole large enough, one at a time we dropped waist-deep into the icy water. Once in the open, we set up a clamor that drew the wreckers to us quickly. The crew pulled us up out of the water-made ravine cut through the snow. We were saved and it was wonderful to breathe freely once more.

[:I] It was opening night at the theater and the Amazing Claude was topping the
bill. People came from miles around to see the famed hypnotist do his stuff. As Claude took to the stage, he announced, "Unlike most stage hypnotists who invite two or three people up onto the stage to be put into a trance, I intend to hypnotize each and every member of the audience."
The excitement was almost electric as Claude withdrew a beautiful antique pocket watch from his coat. "I want you each to keep your eye on this antique watch. It's a very special watch. It's been in my family for six generations."
He began to swing the watch gently back and forth while quietly chanting,
"Watch the watch, watch the watch, watch the watch..."
The crowd became mesmerized as the watch swayed back and forth, light gleaming off its polished surface. Hundreds of pairs of eyes followed the swaying watch, until suddenly it slipped from the hypnotist's fingers and fell to the floor, breaking into a hundred pieces. "***!" said the Hypnotist.
It took three weeks to clean up the theater. [:I]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Sorry for the late arrival. We have been without Broadband here for most of the day, apparenly it was a fault on the system and the area round here was affected so the recorded message said, so a LARGE Bathams and a round please.

An excellent Theme Day on the Great Northern[tup][tup][tup] well started by MIKE and the Railroad Magazine from DOUG. I believe that some of the old engineers did have a intuition when things were not right which cannot be easily explained.
Thanks for the coal side of the GN CM3 and the loco #400 photos and details LARS.

AL Many thanks for GN Streamlined Car details. I wonder if there is any photos of the Silver Pendelum Behind the Doodlebug in Missouri? I guess the name COULEE was local to the area they ran through.

TOM The E7 in the GN colors of green & orange must be one of the most best liveries carried by a diesel loco perhaps rivalled by the SF Warbonnet. how well it suited that type of loco. I dont think it would be the same in Sky Blue.
It is great that the route can still be done by the Empire Builder. I would love to visit my hometown's namesake(Rugby) by train some day.

NICK I will try to find out which Hornby tanks my mate has, and you are so right about the Tri-Ang Couplers.

JOHN Looking forward to the photo [tup].

I have another Bathams then and a few dollars for the 12th Fund. PETE
P.S. Tom the bride sent a E-Mail while I was off line.

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a roiund for the house.

GREAT
NORTHERN
Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Great Northern Railway received its first streamlined sleeping cars beginning in December 1946 for America's first new full service streamliner following WW II the EMPIRE BUILDER.
Each of the five new EMPIRE BUILDER streamliners was twelve cars in length between Chicago and Spokane. The sleeping car section of the new EMPIRE BUILDERS comprised five cars, two PASS series 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars. Two GLACIER series 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars and One RIVER series 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 20 seat Lounge Observation. The new EMPIRE BUILDER was inaugurated February 23,1947 between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. The inaugural train departing from St. Paul consisted of the following cars and power. The train had departed from Chicago earlier that day behind Burlington power.

500 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

501 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1100 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

1110 60 Revenue Seat Coach

1120 48 revenue Seat Leg rest Coach

1121 48 revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

1122 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - Portland)

1140 WATERTON LAKE 10 Seat lounge 10 Seat Lunch Counter 19 Crew Dormitory Car

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR 36 Seat Dining Car

1160 GUNSIGHT PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1170 BLACKFOOT GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1171 AHERN GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1161 PTARMIGAN PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - Portland)

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 Seat Lounge 11 Seat Lounge Observation

The above cars marked as (Chicago - Portland cars were forwarded to and from Portland by the SP&S Railway from Spokane. All other cars were Chicago - Seattle cars.

4 SECTION 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1946 - January 1947 Plan: 4107 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

GN

1160 GUNSIGHT PASS

1161 PTARMIGAN PASS

1162 DAWSON PASS

1163 PIEGAN PASS

1164 LOGAN PASS

1165 TRIPLE DIVIDE PASS

1166 LINCOLN PASS

1169 SWIFT CURRENT PASS

CB&Q

1167 CUT BANK PASS

1168 RED GAP PASS

16 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4108 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

GN

1170 BLACKFOOT GLACIER

1171 AHERN GLACIER

1172 GRINNELL GLACIER

1173 HANGING GLACIER

1174 MANY GLACIER

1175 OBERLIN GLACIER

1176 SEXTON GLACIER

1177 HARRISON GLACIER

CB&Q

1178 SPERRY GLACIER

1179 SIYEH GLACIER

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 16 SEAT LOUNGE 11 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

GN

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

CB&Q

1194 MARIAS RIVER

In January 1950 two additional PASS series sleeping cars were delivered for EMPIRE BUILDER service. One of these cars was owned by the GN the other was owned by SP&S.

4 SECTION 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard January 1950 Plan: 4107 Lot 6883 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

GN

1180 STEVENS PASS

4 SECTION 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard January 1950 Plan: 4107 Lot: 6828 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

SP&S

700 INDIAN PASS

The above two cars were actually the first of eleven new lightweight stream-lined cars built in anticipation of all new 15 Car EMPIRE BUILDERS to be inaugurated June 3, 1951. These eleven new sleeping cars were for the older EMPIRE BUILDERS to create a sixth consist. This would permit the six sets of the first streamlined EMPIRE BUILDERS to become the new WESTERN STAR another Chicago - Pacific Northwest Streamliner operating on a slower schedule to replace the heavyweight ORIENTAL LIMITED. Pullman Standard delivered eight GLACIER series sleeping cars in December 1950. The new WESTERN STAR trains would leave the mainline westbound at Havre, Montana and run southwest to Great Falls Montana. The train would then depart Great Falls in a northerly direction and rejoin the mainline at Shelby Montana. The GN would operate three of the new GLACIER series cars as dedicated St. Paul - Great Falls Sleeping cars 1181 KINTLA GLACIER, 1182 AGASSIZ GLACIER, and 1183 HUDSON GLACIER. The new WESTERN STAR would become the train of Glacier National Park, as it would serve the park both eastbound and westbound in daylight hours. The WESTERN STAR would carry many extra Pullman-sleeping cars in the summer months from tour operators and railroad charters to and from the magnificent Glacier National Park. Many of these foreign sleeping cars running to the park would be set out at Glacier and serve as sleeping quarters for the passengers visiting the park. Later these sleeping cars would be picked up by the WESTERN STAR at Glacier or in many cases the cars may have been moved to Belton where they were picked up. Belton was the west entrance to Glacier National Park and Glacier was the east entrance to Glacier National Park with both entrances on the GN mainline over Marias Pass just 57 miles apart. For a number of years the WESTERN STAR carried extra sleeping cars to and from Glacier National Park that originated in both the east and west so there was Pullman Sleeping cars traveling in the WESTERN STAR in both directions. Those Glacier National Park bound cars that originated in California generally departed in the WESTERN STAR from Spokane while if the tour included time in Seattle the cars departed from Seattle.
In addition to dedicated GLACIER series sleeping cars between St. Paul and Great Falls the WESTERN STAR also carried overnight GLACIER series sleeping cars between Spokane and Seattle in each direction. The two cars designated as Spokane - Seattle sleeping cars were 1184 CHANEY GLACIER and 1185 PARADISE GLACIER. All of the additional GLACIER series sleeping cars and the one additional RIVER series Sleeper Lounge Observation were GN owned. The new WESTERN STAR was inaugurated on June 3, 1951.

16 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1950 Plan: 4108A Lot: 6890 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

GN

1181 KINTLA GLACIER

1182 AGASSIZ GLACIER

1183 HUDSON GLACIER
(St. Paul - Great Falls)

1184 CHANEY GLACIER

1185 PARADISE GLACIER
(Seattle - Spokane)

1186 PUMPELLY GLACIER

1187 TAHOMA GLACIER

1188 TWO OCEAN GLACIER

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 16 SEAT LOUNGE 11 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard December 1950 Plan: 4109A Lot: 6878 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

GN

1197 PRIEST RIVER

The new fifteen car Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDERS entered service June 3, 1951 between Chicago and Seattle - Portland. Each of the new Mid-Century Empire Builders was made up of cars from Pullman Standard and American Car & Foundry. The latter Company built the Baggage 60' Railway post Office cars, Baggage Crew Dormitory Cars, 60 Revenue seat Short trip Coaches, all feature cars (Diners and Lounges). Pullman Standard built the new 48 revenue seat leg rest Coaches, The PASS and RIVER series sleeping cars. The new EMPIRE BUILDERS were powered by EMD 3 unit sets of F units with 4,500 hp total. A typical EMPIRE BUILDER is listed below.

37 Baggage 60' Railway Post Office Car

1200 Baggage 25 Crew Dormitory Car

1210 60 Revenue Seat Short Trip Coach

1215 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

1216 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

1217 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - Portland)

1240 G-N Ranch 14 Seat Lunch Counter 12 Seat Dining 18 Seat Lounge Car

1260 SKYKOMISH RIVER 4 Section 1 Compartment 7 Duplex Roomette 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1370 ROGERS PASS 6 Roomettes 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car
(Chicago - Portland)

1261 SUN RIVER 4 Sections 1 Compartment 7 Duplex Roomette 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - Portland)

1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES 36 Seat Dining Car

1262 SNOHOMISH RIVER 4 Section 1 Compartment 7 Duplex Roomette 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS 6 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car

1372 AKAMINA PASS 6 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car

1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN 2 Roomette Buffet Lounge High Windowed Lounge Observation

There were actually three Roomettes in the MOUNTAIN series Observations. One of these was a Crew Roomette with fewer amenities than the other two; this was for the Lounge car attendant. The other two standard Roomettes were not sold to the public but one was for the Pullman Conductor, the other for the GN onboard Passenger Service Representative.

4 SECTION 1 COMPARTMENT 7 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November - December 1950 Plan: 4181 Lot: 6889 (Built for and assigned to MID-CENTURY EMPIRE BUILDER)
GN

1260 SKYKOMISH RIVER

1261 SUN RIVER

1262 SNOHOMISH RIVER

1263 MILK RIVER

1264 BAD AXE RIVER

1265 CHUMSTICK RIVER

1266 SHEYENNE RIVER

1267 SKAGIT RIVER

1268 MOUSE RIVER

1269 POPLAR RIVER

1270 TOBACCO RIVER

1271 FRASER RIVER

1272 SPOKANE RIVER

1273 PEND ORIELLE RIVER

1274 BOIS DE SIOUX RIVER

SP&S

702 SNAKE RIVER

6 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 2 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard October - November 1950 Plan: 4180 Lot: 6877 (Built for and assigned to MID-CENTURY EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1370 ROGERS PASS

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS

1372 AKAMINA PASS

1373 SANTIAM PASS

1374 PARK CREEK PASS

1375 JEFFERSON PASS

1376 HART PASS

1377 STATE PASS

1378 FIREBRAND PASS

1379 BIG HORN PASS
1380 SUIATTLE PASS

1381 HAINES PASS

1382 BLEWETT PASS

1383 INUYA PASS

1384 LEWIS AND CLARK PASS

SP&S

701 WAPINITIA PASS

Six of the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER Sleeping Cars were transferred to CB&Q ownership in September 1953 with no change of number or names.

CB&Q

1266 SHEYENNE RIVER originally GN 1266 SHEYENNE RIVER

1269 POPLAR RIVER originally GN 1269 POPLAR RIVER

1273 PEND ORIELLE RIVER originally GN 1273 PEND ORIELLE RIVER

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS originally GN 1371 PITAMAKIN PASS

1378 FIREBRAND PASS originally GN 1378 FIREBRAND PASS

1382 BLEWETT PASS originally GN 1382 BLEWETT PASS

Between April and August 1955 the GN cycled each of the RIVER series Sleeper Lounge Observations assigned to the WESTERN STAR through Pullman Calumet shops to rebuild the interiors. Originally built as 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 20 Seat Lounge Observations the cars returned to GN with 4 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment 6 Roomettes and 9 seat Lounge Observation. The car names were changed from RIVER series cars to COULEE series cars at that time. When the COULEE series cars were returned to the GN they were assigned to the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER to give that train more sleeping car capacity. The MOUNTAIN series cars the GN built for the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER were then assigned to the WESTERN STAR. The COULEE series Sleeper Lounge Observations are the only streamlined Observations operated by any railroad with Roomettes. The MOUNTAIN series Observations Roomettes were not sold as revenue space until years later in the combined WESTERN STAR/ FAST MAIL. The new Pullman Plan for the COULEE series Sleeper Lounge Observations was 4109K.

1190 CHOUTEAU COULEE rebuilt April 1955 from 1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1191 TWELVE MILE COULEE rebuilt June 1955 from 1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1192 CORRAL COULEE rebuilt August 1955 from 1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1193 ROCKY COULEE rebuilt May 1955 from 1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

CB&Q 1194 TRAIL COULEE rebuilt July 1955 from CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER

1197 GRAND COULEE rebuilt June 1955 from 1197 PRIEST RIVER

Burlington owned PASS series sleeping car 1168 RED GAP PASS was transferred to GN ownership in June 1955. At that time the WESTERN STAR began operating with one less PASS series sleeping cars in each consist between Chicago and Seattle.
The six surplus PASS series sleeping cars were than assigned to a pool for the WESTERN STAR in summer season and the WINNIPEG LIMITED at other times of the year.
In 1956 GN returned GLACIER series Sleeping cars 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER and 1177 HARRISON GLACIER to Pullman Calumet for remodeling for WINNIPEG LIMITED service. The two GLACIER series cars originally built with 16 Duplex Roomettes and 4 Double Bedrooms returned from Pullman as Plan 4108K 8 Duplex Roomette 2 Double Bedroom Buffet 12 Seat Dinette 12 Seat Lounge Cars with new names and numbers as follows.

1198 MANITOBA CLUB originally 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER

1199 WINNIPEG CLUB originally 1177 HARRISON GLACIER

The two new CLUB series cars were assigned to the WINNIPEG LIMITED. At that time the WINNIPEG LIMITED consists were carrying one GLACIER, one PASS, and one of the CLUB series cars in each consist.
The Great Northern was in a unique situation not enjoyed by many railroads in the early 1960's having first class revenues more than holding there own. The GN sleeping cars were traveling full in the summer seasons and not doing to badly in the winters. But 1962 stretched the railroad's passenger capacity to the limit. It was that summer of 1962 that Seattle had its first World's Fair and passenger volume soared to record levels for the duration of the fair. The one problem discovered during the fair was that the GN had a shortage of Double Bedroom capacity in the EMPIRE BUILDER consists. GN began to sense reluctance on many passengers' parts to book upper or lower section space. Maybe it was due to the lack of privacy offered by these accommodations that left these spaces as the very last to be booked after everything else was full. The GN decided to rebuild five of the EMPIRE BUILDER RIVER series Sleeping cars to increase Room space. The cars were returned to Pullman Calumet and emerged as Plan: 4181A cars. Built originally as Plan: 4181 4 Section 1 Compartment 7 Duplex Roomette 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars. After conversion the cars were 7 Duplex Roomette 1 Compartment 7 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars. The five cars rebuilt to this configuration in 1963 were 1260 SKYKOMISH RIVER, 1262 SNOHOMISH RIVER, 1263 MILK RIVER, 1264 BAD AXE RIVER and 1274 BOIS DE SIOUX RIVER. After the conversion the cars were assigned to through Chicago - Seattle service in the EMPIRE BUILDER.
Beginning in 1959 the Sleeping car space in the WESTERN STAR was sold at Coach fare plus a room charge in order to answer the NORTH COAST LIMITED Slumbercoach service. The GN only offered the service in the WESTERN STAR and it was a real bargain when one remembers that a typical Slumbercoach was set up for forty passengers. The GLACIER series sleeping cars were 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom cars with much more spacious accommodation for 24 passengers.
The Great Northern only operated lightweight streamlined sleeping cars in the EMPIRE BUILDER, WESTERN STAR and WINNIPEG LIMITED.

Thats all I have on the GN streamlined passenger cars.

TTFN AL

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a couple more posts on my second most favorite Railroad.

GREAT
NORTHERN
Streamlined Coaches
by Al

The Great Northern Railway was the crowning achievement of James J. Hill known as the Empire Builder. Here was one railroad baron that was known around the world and that at one time his influence was felt from the Orient to Buffalo, with the GN owning and operating steamships between Duluth-Superior and Buffalo on the Great Lakes. The Railway itself operated from St. Paul – Minneapolis, Duluth – Superior to Winnipeg in Manitoba and to Seattle in Washington State along the shores of Puget Sound. From Seattle the GN operated trains north to Vancouver, B. C. and south to Portland. At one time the Great Northern operated steamships from Seattle to the Orient. In cooperation with the Northern Pacific they owned steamships operating from the mouth of the Columbia River at Flavel, Oregon to San Francisco faster than the rival Southern Pacific route could transport passengers between Portland and San Francisco.
The Great Northern would operate streamlined trains or semi-streamlined passenger trains between the following city pairs. Chicago-Seattle, St. Paul – Winnipeg, St. Paul – Duluth, St. Paul – Fargo, St. Paul – Grand Forks, Billings – Great Falls, Butte – Great Falls, Havre – Great Falls, Seattle – Portland, Seattle – Spokane, and Seattle – Vancouver.
The Great Northern Railway’s most famous train was named for James J. Hill and simply called the EMPIRE BUILDER. This train replaced the ORIENTAL LIMITED as the premier train of the Great Northern between Chicago and Seattle –Portland beginning June 11, 1929 when it was introduced as the finest all Roller-Bearing equipped train in America. The promotional advertising said all new but that referred to the first class section of the train only, the Coaches were 78 revenue seat cars delivered to the Great Northern in 1914 for the ORIENTAL LIMITED. The only thing new about these cars was the EMPIRE BUILDER name in the letter boards and the trucks that had been re-equipped with Roller Bearings. The EMPIRE BUILDERS tourist sleeping cars were also older cars repainted and refitted with roller bearings on all axles.
The first true sign of luxury for the coach passenger of the Great Northern came in the late spring of 1937 with the delivery from Pullman Standard of twelve 58-revenue reclining seat coaches 938 – 949. These twelve cars have had railroad passenger car historians scratching their heads ever since. The controversy surrounding these coaches is whether they should be classed as streamlined, semi-streamlined or hybrids. Those leaning toward streamlined point to the squared off car ends, streamlined roof profile, single vestibule with folding steps, tight fitting steel Dutch doors, modern reclining seats, pull down window shades, and clean smooth appearance. Those of the semi-streamlined school of thought maintain that the cars ran on six wheel heavyweight style trucks, were riveted instead of welded together, and the windows were quite small like most heavyweight cars of the period but they could not be opened. The third group of passenger car historians point out that the arguments put forth by the Semi- Streamlined leaning group of historians and the streamlined leaning group of passenger car historians are both correct so therefore they are hybrids. In any event whether the coaches were streamlined, semi-streamlined or hybrids they were assigned two per consist to each EMPIRE BUILDER. One was a Chicago – Seattle car the other a Chicago – Portland car forwarded between Spokane and Portland by the SP&S.

58 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Pullman Standard April – May 1937 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

938 – 949

One additional streamlined coach was received by the Great Northern in January 1942; the last streamlined passenger cars delivered to the GN until after WW II in 1947. This car was one of three constructed by Pacific Railway Equipment Company with an experimental pendulum suspension system. Each of the three pendulum coaches constructed had different seating capacities. All three of the cars were delivered to the owning roads painted silver; this was fine for the CB&Q and AT&SF who already owned a number of stainless steel cars. For the GN whose other passenger cars at that time were painted Pullman Green it wasn’t hard to spot the 999 in any train it was assigned to. Sometime during WW II the 999 was repainted Pullman Green to match the rest of the GN passenger cars. The AT&SF pendulum Coach seated 58 and was numbered 1100. The CB&Q pendulum Coach seated 60 and was the only one of the three to have a name as well as a number 6000 SILVER PENDULUM. The Great Northern pendulum coach seated 68 and was numbered 999. All three of these experimental cars had long careers for they’re owning roads. The AT&SF 1100 was based in Los Angeles and operated as an extra car in SAN DIEGAN service. The CB&Q 6000 SILVER PENDULUM was assigned to general service and spent many years operating behind one of the roads doodlebugs in Missouri. The Great Northern repainted the 999 in 1947 to the new EMPIRE BUILDER colors of Omaha Orange, Pullman Green with Dulux Gold striping, in fact for a few years it even carried the EMPIRE BUILDER name in its letter boards. The GN even shopped the 999 in the 1950s and squared up the rectangular shaped windows it was built with giving it an even more distinctive appearance. It spent most of its operational career as an extra car in the INTERNATIONALS between Seattle and Vancouver or in the GN Seattle-Portland pool train. The author finds it interesting that all three roads that purchased the experimental pendulum coaches would one day be merged.

68 REVENUE SEAT COACH Pacific Railway Equipment Company January 1942 (Built with experimental suspension system sold to GN for general service)

999

The Great Northern was anxious to streamline the EMPIRE BUILDER but for the interruption of WW II there is every indication that this train would have been streamlined three years earlier than it actually was. As no new passenger cars could be constructed for the duration of the war, this gave GN more time to plan for the streamlined diesel powered EMPIRE BUILDERS. In the late summer of 1943 Great Northern Passenger department officials meant with representatives of Pullman Standard and EMD and began talks concerning all new streamlined diesel powered EMPIRE BUILDERS for delivery just as soon after the wars end as possible. When negotiations were completed contracts were signed November 4, 1943 for sixty cars to equip five twelve car EMPIRE BUILDERS from Pullman Standard. Shortly after the contract was signed with EMD for ten 2,000-hp diesel passenger Cab units to be operated in pairs at the head of the EMPIRE BUILDER between St. Paul and Seattle. As it would turn out the EMD E7A passenger Cab Units were delivered in the first half of 1945 to the Great Northern eighteen months before the new EMPIRE BUILDER cars were delivered. The GN promptly assigned the diesels to the heavyweight EMPIRE BUILDERS pending delivery of the new lightweight streamlined trains. When the war ended in August 1945 the Great Northern promptly assessed the needs of their physical plant and decided what was the best way to put the railroad back together following the conflict. First on the list of things needing urgent attention was the upgrading of all mainlines with new ballast, ties, and heavier rails in mountainous territory.
At long last Great Northern received their new EMPIRE BUILDERS from Pullman Standard, they would be the first all new postwar long distance streamlined trains to enter service following WW II on February 23, 1947. The new EMPIRE BUILDERS were the first trains to feature the new leg rest seats in the coaches. Soon almost every major railroad in the United States would be clamoring for coaches equipped with leg rest seats. The new EMPIRE BUIDERS were painted in Pullman Green and Omaha Orange with Dulux Gold separation stripes and lettering. Actually the paint scheme of the EMPIRE BUILDERS was introduced by the design people at EMD with the delivery of the Great Northern Railways first EMD FT diesels during WW II. Many Railroad and Passenger train historians believe this to have been the most attractive paint scheme ever applied to a passenger train. Each of the five train sets required for daily operation of the EMPIRE BUILDER was train lined as follows between St. Paul and Spokane.

500 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

501 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1100 30’ Railway Post Office Baggage Car

1110 60 Revenue seat Coach

1120 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1121 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1122 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago-Portland)

1140 WATERTON LAKE 10 seat Lounge 10 seat Lunch Counter 19 Crew Dormitory Car

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR 36 seat Dining Car

1160 GUNSIGHT PASS 4 Section 8 duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1170 BLACKFOOT GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1171 AHERN GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1161 PTARMIGAN PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Chicago – Portland)

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 16 seat Lounge 11 seat Lounge Observation

The two westbound cars to Portland were set out at Spokane and forwarded to Portland by the SP&S in their EMPIRE BUILDER connecting train. Eastbound the cars were brought to Spokane from Portland by the SP&S EMPIRE BUILDER connecting train.

60 REVENUE SEAT DAY COACHES Pullman Standard January 1947 (Built for and assigned to 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER reassigned to 1951 WESTERN STAR)

1110 – 1113

1114 (CB&Q)

48 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES Pullman Standard January 1947 (Built for 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER reassigned to 1951 WESTERN STAR)

1120 – 1131

1132 – 1134 (CB&Q)

The CB&Q who operated the EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and St. Paul owned one EMPIRE BUILDER train set except for the power. The CB&Q always supplied their own power usually a pair of silver E units to power the EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and St. Paul.
In May 1950 the Great Northern would receive three five car streamlined day trains from American Car & Foundry. Two consists were identical and were shipped to the West Coast for operation as the INTERNATIONALS between Seattle and Vancouver providing three daily round trips. The new INTERNATIONALS were inaugurated June 18, 1950 providing MORNING, AFTERNOON, and EVENING INTERNATIONALS between the two largest cities in the Pacific Northwest. Each consist was required to operate a round trip and one-half daily to maintain schedule. The major competition on this route came from Greyhound bus and Canadian Pacific Coast Steamships, the latter was owned by Canadian Pacific Railway. Canadian Pacific Steamships operated two daily steamships in competition one a day ship the other an overnight ship on the Triangle route as the Vancouver-Victoria-Seattle route was called. The two-day ships were the PRINCESS MARGUERITE and PRINCESS PATRICIA the fastest ships ever operated in this service at 23 knots, both were delivered new in 1949 and were licensed to carry 1,500 passengers each. The two night boats were the PRINCESS JOAN and PRINCESS ELIZABETH dating back to the 1930's. The two night boats were somewhat slower than the day boats but speed was not essential for the overnight runs. Both northbound and southbound the INTERNATIONALS made the following stops from Seattle, Everett, Mount Vernon, Bellingham, Blaine, White Rock, New Westminster, and Vancouver. Before many years would pass a new stop was added between Seattle and Everett named Edmonds. The Edmonds stop would be honored by not only the INTERNATIONALS but the EMPIRE BUILDER, WESTERN STAR and CASCADIANS. The total distance traveled by the INTERNATIONAL between terminals was 155 miles and the time for the 155 miles was 3 hours 55 minutes on the fastest schedule. The scenery provided along this route was nothing short of spectacular with views of Puget Sound, Olympic Mountains, Cascade Mountains, Mount Baker, Skagit Valley, the Chuckanuck, Bellingham Bay, Peace Arch, Fraser River, and Vancouver. Initially each five car INTERNATIONAL was trainlined as follows.

510 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1105 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

1115 60 Revenue seat Coach

1116 60 Revenue seat Coach

1145 28 Revenue seat Coach 24 seat Dining Car

1195 PORT OF SEATTLE Customs Office Parlor Bedroom 17 Revenue seat Parlor 17 seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

511 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1106 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

1117 60 Revenue seat Coach

1118 60 Revenue seat Coach

1146 28-revenue seat Coach 24 seat Dining Car

1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER Customs Office Parlor Bedroom 17 Revenue seat Parlor 17 seat Lounge Observation

60 REVENUE SEAT DAY COACHES American Car & Foundry May, 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1115 – 1118

28 REVENUE SEAT COACH KITCHEN 24 SEAT DINING CARS American Car & Foundry May, 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1145 – 1146

The third of the five-car streamlined day trains delivered to the Great Northern Railway in May 1950 was the RED RIVER. This was for a new train service between Grand Forks and St. Paul round trip daily. With ten scheduled stops each way for the 320-mile trip, the scheduled time of seven and one-half hours was not unreasonable. The following consist of the RED RIVER is listed as inaugurated June 25, 1950.

512 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1107 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

1137 60 Revenue seat Coach

1138 60 Revenue seat Coach

1139 60-revenue seat Coach

1147 RED RIVER 9 seat Lunch Counter 12 seat Dinette 16 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Observation


60 REVENUE SEAT COACHES American Car & Foundry May, 1950 (Built for and assigned to RED RIVER)

1137 – 1139

The three 60 Revenue seat Coaches 1137 – 1139 were equipped with Baker heaters and heavy insulation to protect them from the arctic blasts common in winter to this area. This was done, as the cars would overnight in Grand Forks exposed to the elements while the power was tucked in the roundhouse nightly.
The Great Northern once again shocked their competition to the northwest with the announcement in 1950 that all new fifteen car streamlined EMPIRE BUILDERS would enter service in time for the busy 1951 summer season. And not only would they introduce all new EMPIRE BUILDERS but also a sixth consist of the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER would be constructed at the same time. This was so the 1947-streamlined equipment could be used to replace the heavyweight ORIENTAL LIMITED on its slower schedule between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. For the additional coaches for the sixth consist of the train that would be named WESTERN STAR the GN ordered an additional AC&F built 60 seat coach for the short trip travelers on the new train this was actually a sixth car added to the EMPIRE BUILDER. The only difference being car 1209 when delivered was lettered Great Northern in the Letter-board rather than EMPIRE BUILDER like the other five cars delivered between October 1950 and March 1951. The GN ordered two additional 48 seat Leg Rest Coaches from Pullman Standard again added to the order for EMPIRE BUILDER cars. These cars 1226 and 1231 were lettered Great Northern. Since the new WESTERN STAR consists required three 48 seat Leg Rest Coaches per train the Great Northern Railways third leg rest coach was a nearly new 64 seat coach purchased from the SP&S number 301. This car was delivered to the SP&S by Pullman Standard in January 1950. Since the car was already painted in EMPIRE BUILDER colors it was simply renumbered 1135 and the words Spokane Portland & Seattle were replaced by Great Northern in the letter-board. To complete the cars interior modifications the 64 seats were removed and stored in Minneapolis shops and replaced with 48 leg rest seats. The final touch was the installation of larger rest rooms for long distance service and the work was completed in November 1950.
The Great Northern inaugurated the new fifteen car streamlined EMPIRE BUILDERS June 3, 1951 the same date the WESTERN STAR was inaugurated using the five 1947 consists and one new consist. Great Northern ads and Timetables proclaimed now two Great streamlined trains daily between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. Extra sleeping cars had been purchased for the new WESTERN STAR, as they would provide direct service to Great Falls, Montana with a set out sleeper westbound picked up eastbound at that point. The WESTERN STARS would also provide overnight sleepers in both directions between Seattle and Spokane. The following is an example of the new fifteen car EMPIRE BUILDER, less power as the CB&Q provided their own power between Chicago and St. Paul in both directions for both the EMPIRE BUILDER and new WESTERN STAR. Power for the new EMPIRE BUILDERS between St. Paul and Havre, Montana was an A-B-A set of EMD F7 units, From Havre to Seattle an A-B-B-A set of EMD F7 units was assigned. The WESTERN STAR was generally assigned the old EMPIRE BUILDER E7 units for power between St. Paul and Havre and EMD F3 or F7 A-B-A sets west of there.

42 Baggage 60’ Railway Post Office Car

1200 Baggage 22 Crew Dormitory Car

1210 60 Revenue seat Coach

1215 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1216 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1217 48-revenue seat Leg-Rest Coach
(Chicago – Portland)

1240 CROSSLEY LAKE G – N Ranch Car 14 seat Lunch Counter 12 seat Dining 18 seat Lounge Car

1260 SKYKOMISH RIVER 4 Section 1 Compartment, 3 Double Bedroom 7 Duplex Roomette Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Portland)

1370 ROGERS PASS 6 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Portland)

1261 SUN RIVER 4 Section 1 Compartment 3 Double Bedroom 7 Duplex Roomette Sleeping Car

1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES 36 seat Dining Car

1262 SNOHOMISH RIVER 4 Section 1 Compartment 3 Double Bedroom 7 Duplex Roomette Sleeping Car

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS 6 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car

1372 AKAMINA PASS 6 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom 2 Compartment Sleeping Car

1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN 3 Crew Roomette Buffet 36 seat High Windowed Lounge Observation

WESTERN STAR
(Departing St. Paul westbound)

1100 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

1209 60 Revenue seat Coach

1120 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1121 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach

1122 48 Revenue seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago – Portland)

1140 WATERTON LAKE 19 Crew Dormitory 10 seat Lunch Counter 10 seat Lounge Car

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR 36 seat Dining Car

1160 GUNSIGHT PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Portland)

1170 BLACKFOOT GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Portland)

1171 AHERN GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1161 PTARMIGAN PASS 4 Section 8 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

1181 KINTLA GLACIER 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Paul – Great Falls)

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER 2 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet 27 seat Lounge Observation

60 REVENUE SEAT DAY COACHES American Car & Foundry October 1950 – March 1951 (Built for and assigned to MID CENTURY EMPIRE BUILDER)

1210 – 1214

60 REVENUE SEAT DAY COACH American Car & Foundry March 1951 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

1209

48 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES Pullman Standard November 1950 (Built for and assigned to MID CENTURY EMPIRE BUILDER)

1215 – 1225
1227 - 1230

48 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES Pullman Standard November 1950 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

1226, 1231

The Great Northern Railway many felt had made a mistake having two daily streamliners between Chicago and Seattle – Portland when each of the competitors was only fielding one streamliner and one older heavyweight train in competition. But the Great Northern more than held its own against the competing roads where Chicago – Seattle passengers were concerned. In November 1952 the Milwaukee Road inaugurated Super Domes to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA trains one per consist. These full-length Dome cars rode on six wheel trucks to spread their massive weight out. These cars featured 68 seats on the dome level and a Buffet with Lounge on the lower level beneath the dome. It was hoped that the introduction of these non-revenue seat cars to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA would attract business back to these trains. Already since the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA was introduced a 32-revenue seat Coach 8 Section Touralux car and a 14 Section Touralux car had been discontinued since its inauguration in 1947. The Northern Pacific had fared better with the NORTH COAST LIMITED but the introduction of the Super Domes to the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA sent the Northern Pacific shopping for domes of their own. The NORTH COAST LIMITED received Domes in 1954 and a new two-tone green paint scheme with white separation stripe at the same time designed by famed designer Raymond Loewy. At the same time the train was renamed the VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. First came a pair of 46 Revenue seat Leg rest Vista dome Coaches with 24-non revenue seats in each dome. These Vista Dome Coaches replaced two of the trains 56 revenue seat leg rest coaches with the third separating the two Vista Dome Coaches. The change took place between July and August 1954. These Vista Domes built by Budd were almost identical to those built in 1948 for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR except Budd applied non corrugated stainless steel panels to the sides of these cars for the NP and painted them to match the rest of the train. In November, 1954 each consist of the VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED received two Vista Dome Sleeping Cars replacing older sleeping cars in the train. The VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED separated the two Vista Dome Sleeping Cars with a flat roofed sleeping car to provide better viewing for their sleeping car passengers just as they had for the dome coach passengers. This gave the VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED 96 seats in Domes between Chicago and Spokane.
The next passenger train operating from Chicago to the Pacific Northwest to receive domes was the Union Pacific CITY OF PORTLAND in 1955. By the end of May that year each train set of the CITY OF PORTLAND was operating with three ASTRA DOMES in each. An Astra Dome Coach, Astra Dome Dining Car, and Astra Dome Lounge Observation. The Dome Dining Car provided table seating in the dome for 18 passengers per sitting during meal hours. Each of the other Domes provided 24 seats in the dome with the Astra Dome Coach for the exclusive use of Coach passengers and the Astra Dome Lounge Observation exclusively for the sleeping Car passengers.
The Great Northern Railway had invested far too much money in the MID CENTURY EMPIRE BUILDERS to let the business go to the competition simply because they had domes. Beginning May 29, 1955 each EMPIRE BUILDER consist began operating with three Budd built Great Domes each with 24 non revenue seats in the dome and 46 revenue leg rest seats on the main level. Two of these Great Dome Coaches operated Chicago to Seattle the third operated between Chicago and Portland. And as if that wasn’t enough dome seats the Great Northern Railway added full-length Great Dome Lounge cars for the sleeping car passengers in October 1955. The upper level seating and Lounge area under the Great Dome seated 75 and a Buffet with Lounge seating for 32 was on the lower level. With the addition of the Great Dome Lounge cars to the EMPIRE BUILDER the train became the greatest of the domes streamliners and the only domed streamliner to carry a full-length dome and three standard 24 seat domes at the same time. With 147 seats in domes the EMPIRE BUILDER had more dome seats than any other streamlined train in America at the time of the domes introduction. No wonder the ads proclaimed the train the incomparable Great domed EMPIRE BUILDER.

24 SEAT GREAT DOME 46 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES Budd Company May 1955 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1320 – 1331

SP&S

1332

CB&Q

1333 – 1335

72 SEAT GREAT DOME LOUNGE CAR /32 SEAT LOWER LEVEL LOUNGE BUFFET Budd Company October, 1955 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN
1390 GLACIER VIEW

1391 OCEAN VIEW

1392 MOUNTAIN VIEW

1393 LAKE VIEW

1394 PRAIRIE VIEW

CB&Q

1395 RIVER VIEW

These domes were the last new cars built for the EMPIRE BUILDERS the Dome Coaches replaced the 48-revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches in each consist. The Great Dome Lounge Car was train-lined directly behind the Dining Car in the EMPIRE BUILDER train sets. The Great Northern Railway operated the G-N Ranch Car, Dining Car and Great Dome Lounge Car on a St. Paul – Chicago – Seattle – St. Paul cycle. A fresh clean set of these cars replaced each days arriving set of these cars in the eastbound EMPIRE BUILDERS before continuing on to Chicago.
The Great Northern Railway used the streamlined coaches from 1937 as additional cars for the WESTERN STAR during summer months and the Christmas rush. Each WESTERN STAR consist was assigned one of these cars after repainting in the Empire Builder colors as the Omaha Orange, Pullman Green paint scheme with Dulux Gold separation stripes and lettering as the scheme became known. By the spring of 1952 after just one season as extra cars in the WESTERN STAR consists the GN decided they could better utilize these cars to semi streamline or streamline other train services. Two of these twelve coaches 944 and 945 were remodeled by GN shops they removed part of there seating capacity for installation of a train service galley. The seating capacity of 944 and 945 was reduced to 44 revenue seats after the installation of the train service galley and they were assigned to the new BADGER and GOPHER between St. Paul and Duluth. These cars were trainlined directly behind the head end cars of these trains. Trailing each of these cars was a pair of as built 58-revenue seat coaches numbers 946-949. The final cars in each BADGER and GOPHER train were streamlined in Great Northern Shops from heavyweight coaches and emerged as Café Parlor Observations 1083 TWIN CITIES and 1084 TWIN PORTS. The new streamlined BADGER and GOPHER train sets were inaugurated April 26, 1952 and are listed below.

267A EMD F7A 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

267B EMD F7B 1,500 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

81 Heavyweight Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

271 Baggage Express Car

945 Train Service Galley 44 revenue seat Coach

948 58 Revenue seat Coach

949 58 Revenue seat Coach

1083 TWIN CITIES 10 seat Dining Café 26 seat Parlor Observation

SECOND CONSIST

508 EMD E7A 2,000 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

87 Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car

270 Baggage Express Car

944 Train Service Galley 44 revenue seat Coach

946 58 Revenue seat Coach

947 58 Revenue seat Coach

1084 TWIN PORTS 10 seat Dining Café 26 seat Parlor Observation

The remaining 58 seat Luxury Coaches 938-943 as they were advertised when introduced to the EMPIRE BUILDER in 1937 were assigned to the west coast with four of these cars assigned to the CASCADIANS between Seattle and Spokane on a day schedule. The passenger section of these trains consisted of a pair of these cars with either 1060 or 1061 bringing up the markers of the CASCADIAN trains. The 1060 and 1061 were originally heavyweight Dining cars rebuilt to Café – reserved seat coaches and streamlined. The interiors were rebuilt with kitchen 16 seat Café and 18 seats in the reserved coach section. The rear of these cars carried a train sign on either side of the diaphragm opening proclaiming CASCADIAN with a permanent red light mounted above the diaphragm shining to the rear. In any event the CASCADIANS attained streamliner status with these cars even if it was only for a short period of time.
The remaining 938-943 cars assigned to the West Coast were generally operated in the GN Seattle – Portland pool train.
The Great Northern operated an overnight service named the WINNIPEG LIMITED between St. Paul and Winnipeg capitol of Manitoba. This excellent service operated with the best of the heavyweight equipment available from the ORIENTAL LIMITED when that train received new streamlined equipment and the new name WESTERN STAR in 1951. The coaches assigned to the WINNIPEG LIMITED at that time were the six cars rebuilt by GN shops from heavyweight Pullman Parlor cars to 52 reclining seat Coaches 990-995 for wartime assignment to the EMPIRE BUILDER. About the only thing streamlined in the 1952 WINNIPEG LIMITED was the diesel power up front. The WINNIPEG LIMITED train sets would slowly evolve into streamliners beginning in February 1952 when a GLACIER series 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom sleeping car was assigned from the newly formed WESTERN STAR – WINNIPEG LIMITED pool. A second GLACIER series-sleeping car was assigned to each WINNIPEG LIMITED consist beginning in October 1954. The WINNIPEG LIMITED trains would receive 48 revenue seat Leg rest Coaches in time for the summer 1955 schedule change. This was made possible when the EMPIRE BUILDERS received the new Great Dome Coaches in May 1955. The 1951 EMPIRE BUILDER 48 revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches were then assigned to the WESTERN STAR and the 1947 48 seat Leg Rest Coaches were available for other assignments including the WINNIPEG LIMITEDS. The remaining WINNIPEG LIMITED sleeping cars were streamlined by 1956 including the summer only Canadian National sleeping car between St. Paul and Vancouver. This car was carried to Winnipeg from St. Paul in the WINNIPEG LIMITED and transferred to the Canadian National SUPER CONTINENTAL for the remainder of the trip to Vancouver. Eastbound the reverse transpired.
The Great Northern – Northern Pacific – Union Pacific operated a pool train operation between Seattle and Portland. Each railroad provided the power and cars for one train set to operate a round trip between the two Pacific Northwest cities. For three-month periods each railroad was required to provide the power and cars for a pair of overnight trains between the two cities. Sleeping cars were operated between both Seattle and Portland and Tacoma and Portland in both directions nightly. The sleeping cars were heavyweight 12 Section 1 Drawing Room sleeping cars. The Great Northern Pool train operated with heavyweight 52 revenue seat Coaches 990-995 that had operated in the WINNIPEG LIMITED after that train received lightweight streamlined 48 revenue seat leg rest Coaches in 1955. The GN shops rebuilt a former heavyweight Solarium Observation car into a streamlined Cafe Parlor Observation and numbered the car 1082. It was identical to the two cars rebuilt and streamlined for the BADGER and GOPHER. When the GN withdrew one of the 58-revenue seat Luxury coaches from each CASCADIAN consist they were assigned to the GN pool train.
There was one other train the GN operated that carried several streamlined cars although the train itself never became streamlined and that was the DAKOTAN. The DAKOTAN operated between St. Paul and Williston. Mainly a mail and express train the DAKOTAN never the less carried a snack coach and one or two additional coaches. Many of the cars operated in the DAKOTAN were streamlined in GN shops from old heavyweights.
In November 1961 the GN received six coaches used from the C&NW. These cars were streamlined 56 seat coaches with 8 seat smoking lounges. The cars were delivered to the C&NW in the 1946 lot or 1947 lot of new cars. The GN shops completely repainted the interiors and exteriors as well as any seating repairs and refurbishing was completed before they were assigned to general service with the GN numbers 1090-1095.

56 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 8 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGES Pullman Standard February – April 1946 (Ex C&NW cars purchased by GN in November, 1961 for General Service)

1090 originally C&NW 3450

1095 originally C&NW 3434

56 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 8 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGES October 1947 (Ex C&NW cars purchased by GN in November 1961 for General Service)

1091 originally C&NW 3469

1092 originally C&NW 3462

1093 originally C&NW 3459

1094 originally C&NW 3475

When the RED RIVER was withdrawn from service the Great Northern Railway shops rebuilt the former streamlined Café Observation 1147 RED RIVER into a straight 68 revenue seat Coach and retained the number 1147 but dropped the name. The rebuild took place in July 1963. The rebuilding work performed on 1147 RED RIVER was as good as any of those streamlined observations rebuilt to straight coaches by Pullman themselves for the Santa Fe and other roads.
Between July and December 1963 the Great Northern received eight additional coaches from the C&NW. Unlike the earlier coaches from the C&NW these were already extensively rebuilt by Pullman Standard for the C&NW in 1958 –1959. These coaches were easily recognizable in GN service by their heavily green tinted windows. The Great Northern assigned these cars to General service just as they had the earlier cars from C&NW.

56 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 8 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGES Built prewar and postwar Rebuilt by Pullman Standard between February 1958 and May 1959 (Purchased by GN for General Service in 1963)

JULY 1963

1097 ex C&NW 808 originally C&NW 3444 rebuilt April 1958

AUGUST 1963

1096 ex C&NW 801 originally C&NW 3453 rebuilt March 1958

1098 ex C&NW 825 originally C&NW 3432 rebuilt October 1958

SEPTEMBER 1963

1089 ex C&NW 821 originally C&NW 3439 rebuilt September 1958

NOVEMBER 1963

1087 ex C&NW 830 originally C&NW 3470 rebuilt October 1958

DECEMBER 1963

1086 ex C&NW 810 originally C&NW 3437 rebuilt May 1958

1088 ex C&NW 831 originally C&NW 3451 rebuilt October 1958

1099 ex C&NW 841 originally C&NW 3476 rebuilt February 1959

The Great Northern Railway would return to the C&NW several times over the next three years 1964-1966 for additional 56 seat Coaches from the C&NW as follows:

56 REVENUE SEAT COACHES WITH 8 SEAT SMOKING LOUNGE Rebuilt by Pullman Standard between February 1958 and May 1959 (Purchased by the GN between July 1964 and November 1966 for assignment to general service)

JULY 1964

1078 ex C&NW 834 originally C&NW 3435 rebuilt December 1958

OCTOBER 1964

1080 ex C&NW 842 originally C&NW 3449 rebuilt March 1959

NOVEMBER 1964

1079 ex C&NW 832 originally C&NW 3454 rebuilt December 1958

DECEMBER 1964

1081 ex C&NW 849 originally C&NW 3468 rebuilt May 1959

OCTOBER 1965

1076 ex C&NW 819 originally C&NW
3433 rebuilt August 1958

1077 ex C&NW 827 originally C&NW 3471 rebuilt October 1958

NOVEMBER 1966

1082 ex C&NW 806 originally C&NW 3436 rebuilt April 1958

The Great Northern Railway purchased four additional used 56 revenue seat Coaches in February 1966 from the SL-SF (Frisco) that had originally been built for and assigned to the METEOR trains between St. Louis and Oklahoma City. These four cars featured fluted stainless steel panels beneath the windows. The GN left the stainless steel panels in place and painted the cars in a modified Big Sky Blue scheme. These four cars were always easy to spot in whatever train they were operated in due to the bright stainless steel below the windows. The GN assigned the 56 seat coaches to the lines east where they operated in the WINNIPEG LIMITED, BADGER or GOPHER.

56 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Pullman Standard June 1948 Built for and assigned to FRISCO METEOR purchased used in February 1966 by GN assigned to General service)

1072 originally SL-SF 1253 CLAYTON

1073 originally SL-SF 1256 RICHMOND HEIGHTS

1074 originally SL-SF 1257 UNIVERSITY CITY

56 REVENUE SEAT COACH Pullman Standard July 1955 (Built for and assigned to FRISCO METEOR sold used to GN February 1955 assigned to General service)

1075 originally SL-SF 1259 PICARDY LANE

In May 1967 the Great Northern shops remodeled ex SL-SF 56 seat coaches 1073 and 1074 to Buffet 40 revenue seat Coaches with no change of numbers. These cars then provided food service in the WINNIPEG LIMITEDS.
Between December 1967 and February 1968 GN shops were busy rebuilding the five GN owned COULEE series Sleeper Lounge Observations to straight 68 seat Coaches and renumbering them 1300-1304. The rebuild performed on these cars was very similar to that performed on the 1147 RED RIVER in 1963. After completion of the work 1300-1304 were assigned to General Service.

68 REVENUE SEAT COACHES Rebuilt from COULEE series Sleeper Lounge Observations between December 1967 and February 1968 (Assigned to General Service after rebuilding)

1300 ex GN 1190 CHOUTEAU COULEE originally GN 1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1301 ex GN 1191 TWELVE MILE COULEE originally GN 1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1302 ex GN 1192 CORRAL COULEE originally GN 1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1303 ex GN 1193 ROCKY COULEE originally GN 1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

1304 ex GN 1197 GRAND COULEE originally GN 1197 PRIEST RIVER

The final purchase of used coaches by the GN came from the Union Pacific Railroad for service in the Christmas and summer operations of the EMPIRE BUILDER. At other times these cars were assigned to the WESTERN STAR. Two different manufacturers originally built these eleven 44 revenue seat Leg rest Coaches for the UP in two separate lots. Eight of the cars were built by American Car & Foundry and delivered in 1953-54 part of an order for 38 of these cars numbered 5450-5487. The other three 44 revenue seat leg rest Coaches were manufactured by St. Louis Car Company as part of an order for twelve cars delivered to the Union Pacific between February and May 1960 numbers 5488 – 5499. After purchase the car that was to be numbered GN 1005 became a parts source for the remaining ten cars. All ten cars that entered service were repainted Big Sky Blue before entering service.

44 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES American Car & Foundry November 1953 – September 1954 (Built for and assigned to CITY streamliners sold to GN June, 1969 assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER- WESTERN STAR / FAST MAIL)

1000 originally UP 5469

1001 originally UP 5470

1002 originally UP 5471

1003 originally UP 5476

1004 originally UP 5477

1005 originally UP 5478

1006 originally UP 5485

1007 originally UP 5487

44 REVENUE SEAT LEG REST COACHES St. Louis Car Company February – May 1960 (Built for and assigned to CITY streamliners GN purchased in June 1969 and assigned cars to EMPIRE BUILDER – WESTERN STAR / FAST MAIL only cars ever owned by GN built by St. Louis Car Company)

1008 originally UP 5488

1009 originally UP 5491

1010 originally UP 5492

All surviving GN streamlined coaches became BN property in March 1970, most were assigned BN numbers but few cars actually had these numbers applied to their flanks.

GREAT
NORTHERN
(GN)
Streamlined Dining & Lounge Cars
by Al

The Great Northern became the first railroad to introduce new streamlined full service long distance trains following WW II. Pullman Standard between December 1946 and February 1947 delivered five train sets consisting of twelve cars each in time for the new EMPIRE BUILDERS inaugural February 23, 1947. Each of the new train sets featured three feature cars a 19-crew dormitory 10-seat lunch counter 10-seat lounge car, 36-seat dining car and a 2-double bedroom 1-drawing room buffet 27-seat lounge observation. The lunch counter dining car and the 36-seat dining car operated on a St. Paul-Chicago-Seattle-St. Paul cycle while all other cars operated Chicago-Seattle-Chicago. The lunch counter-lounge car was primarily for the use of coach passengers and the 36-seat dining car was for both coach and Pullman passengers. The sleeper-lounge observation was reserved for Pullman passengers only. One complete set of equipment was CB&Q owned the other four were Great Northern owned. The GN modernized and semi-streamlined a heavyweight dining car 1032 MINNESOTA, for standby service in the EMPIRE BUILDER if it became necessary to substitute for one of the trains fully streamlined diners. It was difficult to see if this car was operating in a EMPIRE BUILDER consist as the streamlining accomplished on this car by GN shops was excellent, the telltale was the six-wheel trucks under this car. The three feature cars of the 1947 edition of the EMPIRE BUILDER were both numbered and named.

19-CREW DORMITORY 10-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Pullman Standard January-February 1947 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1140 WATERTON LAKE

1141 ST. MARY LAKE

1142 TWO MEDICINE LAKES

1143 COEUR D’ALENE LAKE

CB&Q

1144 RED EAGLE LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard January – February 1947 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1150 LAKE SUPERIOR

1151 LAKE McDONALD

1152 LAKE CHELAN

1153 LAKE JOSEPHINE

CB&Q

1154 LAKE MICHIGAN

2-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 27-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard January – February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER later WESTERN STAR)

GN

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

CB&Q

1194 MARIAS RIVER

The GN semi-streamlined a connecting train to the EMPIRE BUILDER that operated between Great Falls and Havre. This connecting train comprised a rebuilt and streamlined motorcar with a baggage compartment one heavyweight coach semi streamlined and the third car was a converted from a heavyweight coach. The car number 1059 ROBERT S. FORD featured 12-seat Dinette and 14 –seat Parlor for those passengers traveling first class on the main EMPIRE BUILDER either eastbound or westbound. The motorcar was replaced by a conventional diesel and baggage car after the hybrid was found unsatisfactory in maintaining the connecting service.
In order to give the commissary in St. Paul additional time in preparing the lunch counter lounge car and dining car for each days eastbound EMPIRE BUILDER the GN built an additional car of each of these types in their own shops. The GN built cars were both completed in July 1949 and were identical to the Pullman Standard built cars of 1947. The GN cars were painted and lettered for EMPIRE BUILDER service at the time of delivery.

19-CREW DORMITORY 10-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 10-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Great Northern Shops July 1949 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER pool later WESTERN STAR)
1148 DEVILS LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CAR Great Northern Shops July 1949 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER pool later WESTERN STAR)

1155 LAKE WASHINGTON

In June 1950 the GN introduced three completely new daytime 5-car streamliners. Two of these were the new INTERNATIONALS operating a three times daily round trip schedule between Seattle and Vancouver, British Columbia. Each of these American Car & Foundry built streamliners carried two feature cars. Each INTERNATIONAL train set carried a 28-seat coach 24-seat café car 1145 or 1146. Each cars kitchen separated the coach seating and café seating.
The Parlor Observations of the INTERNATIONALS provided a small buffet for the car attendant to serve first class passengers drinks from. These two beautiful cars featured a customs inspection room the small buffet a parlor bedroom 17-parlor seats and 17-seat lounge observation. These two cars were numbered and named 1195 PORT OF SEATTLE and 1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER.

28-REVENUE SEAT COACH KITCHEN 24-SEAT CAFÉ CARS American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1145, 1146

CUSTOMS OFFICE BUFFET PARLOR BEDROOM 17-REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 17-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1195 PORT OF SEATTLE

1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER

The other five-car streamliner introduced in June 1950 was the RED RIVER between Grand Forks and St. Paul round trip daily. This train carried one feature car the Observation 1147 RED RIVER. This car offered an 8-seat dining room 9-seat lunch counter 16-seat Parlor observation.

8-SEAT DINING 9-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATION American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned RED RIVER)

1147 RED RIVER

In December 1950 Pullman Standard delivered nine sleeping cars to the Great Northern one of these was a sleeper-lounge-observation identical to the earlier ones from Pullman Standard built for the EMPIRE BUILDER in 1947. The reason for the new cars was a sixth consist was needed for the inaugural of the WESTERN STAR a new streamlined train to be inaugurated on June 3, 1951 between Chicago and Seattle-Portland on a slower schedule than the EMPIRE BUILDER thus the need for six sets of equipment. Actually the new WESTERN STAR would operate using the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER equipment and the EMPIRE BUILDER was reequipped with all new fifteen car consists inaugurated the same date June 3, 1951.

2-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 27-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard December 1950 Plan: 4109A Lot: 6878 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

1197 PRIEST RIVER

The new 1951 EMPIRE BUILDERS provided three feature cars in each fifteen-car consist. For the coach passengers there was the new G-N Ranch car with its 14-seat lunch counter 12-seat dinette 18-seat lounge. Another of the 1951 EMPIRE BUILDER feature cars was new 36-seat dining car. The other feature car was the Buffet Lounge Observations. The Great Northern purchased six each of the feature cars in order to change all three out on their eastbound trip at St. Paul and fully replenished cars would be added at that time. American Car & Foundry constructed all three-feature cars along with the head end cars and 60-seat coaches. Pullman constructed the new EMPIRE BUILDERS Sleeping cars and 48 seat leg-rest coaches.
Great Northern referred to the large windows located in the lounge observations as picture windows. Each of these cars also carried three Roomettes one for the car attendant, one for the Pullman conductor and the third for the Traveling passenger representative carried on the EMPIRE BUILDER. Only the Great Northern would ever own streamlined observations with roomettes as accommodation. A buffet and 38-lounge seats in the observation occupied the rest of these cars. The Great Northern received six each of the feature cars for the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER.

G-N RANCH 14-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 12-SEAT DINETTE 18-SEAT LOUNGE CARS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1240 CROSSLEY LAKE

1241 RUNNING CRANE LAKE

1242 HIDDEN LAKE

1243 ICEBERG LAKE

1244 WHITE PINES LAKE

1245 WHITEFISH LAKE

36-SEAT DINING CARS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES

1251 LAKE WENATCHEE

1252 LAKE ELLEN WILSON

1253 LAKE UNION

1254 LAKE MINNETONKA

1255 LAKE OF THE WOODS

3-CREW ROOMETTE BUFFET 38-SEAT PICTURE WINDOWED LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS American Car & Foundry May 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER)

1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN

1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN

1292 GOING-TO-THE-SUN MOUNTAIN

1293 CATHEDRAL MOUNTAIN

1294 TREMPALEAU MOUNTAIN

1295 LITTLE CHIEF MOUNTAIN

For there next trains to be modernized the Great Northern turned to the 944-949 series of prewar 58-seat coaches that had served in the heavyweight EMPIRE BUILDER. Six of these 58-seat cars were assigned to the BADGER-GOPHER with two of the cars having seating reduced to 44. The reason for the seat reduction in cars 944 and 945 was a Train Sales Galley was installed in these cars for an attendant to travel through the coaches offering hot and cold drinks sandwiches and snacks. One of these cars was assigned to each GOPHER train set doubling in the BADGER service as well. These cars operated a round trip daily between St. Paul and Duluth.
In addition to the two train sales galley equipped coaches the GN shops modernized and remodeled to heavyweight Pullman Standard coaches originally built as parlor cars into Café Parlor Observations for the postwar BADGER-GOPHER service. The two cars when completed by GN shops featured a 10-seat Dinette and 26-seat Parlor Observation.
Pullman sold heavyweight parlor cars CORDELIA and NATALIE to the GN in June 1942. The GN rebuilt both to coaches numbering them 1083 and 1084 respectively. When the two cars were shopped in April 1952 they emerged as fully modern streamlined appearance Café Parlor Observations with squared off rear observation ends. After rebuilding the cars retained the numbers 1083 and 1084 but names were added 1083 was named TWIN CITIES and 1084 was named TWIN PORTS.
In June 1953 the CB&Q sold WESTERN STAR cars 1144-RED EAGLE LAKE and 1154-LAKE MICHIGAN to the Great Northern. The cars retained the same numbers in GN ownership.
In September 1953 the GN transferred one set of the Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER equipment to CB&Q ownership. The three feature cars transferred to CB&Q ownership were 1243 ICEBERG LAKE, 1250 LAKE OF THE ISLES and 1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN.
In August 1954 the GN shops completed the rebuilding of two heavyweight dining cars into modernized coach dining cars for service in the CASCADIAN the GN trains that operated on a daylight schedule between Seattle and Spokane daily in each direction. Once again the GN assigned 938-943 series coaches to these trains and the two Café-Dining cars numbers 1060 and 1061. These two cars were originally heavyweight dining cars 1030 OREGON and 1031 WISCONSIN, when modernized by GN shops they resembled lightweights except for there telltale six wheel trucks. The interiors were fitted with 18-reserved coach seats at one end and a 16-seat Café at the other end of these cars. They carried the train name on either side of the vestibule and were equipped with a red mars light to bring up the rear of the CASCADIAN trains.
The two cars were assigned to the DAKOTAN trains after the CASCADIANS had been discontinued.
In March 1956 GN rebuilt two of their 16-Duplex Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping cars 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER and 1177 HARRISON GLACIER. When the two cars emerged from the shops it was with new numbers and names 1198 MANTOBA CLUB and 1199 WINNIPEG CLUB. The new interiors fitted contained 8-Duplex Roomettes 2-Double Bedrooms Buffet 12-seat Dinette 12-seat Lounge. The two cars were rebuilt for the overnight WINNIPEG LIMITEDS between St. Paul and Winnipeg.

8-DUPLEX ROOMETTE 2-DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 12-SEAT DINETTE 12-SEAT LOUNGE CARS (Rebuilt March 1956 assigned to WINNIPEG LIMITED)

1198 MANITOBA CLUB originally 1175 OBERLIN GLACIER

1199 WINNIPEG CLUB originally 1177 HARRISON GLACIER

TTFN AL