"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Good additional info, as usual, passengerfan Al. The sources I have show that LV simply didn't own any in 1950. Before or after is another story, obviously. Don't know why 1950 was singled out .... I didn't write the book! [swg]

For pwolfe Pete and others: Some additional info on the LV - In the late 1930's, the new streamlined trains of their competitors forced the Lehigh Valley to update their own passenger service. The Lehigh Limited was selected as the first train to be upgraded. Industrial designer Otto Kuhler created a stunning orange, black and white paint scheme and applied it to a semi-streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific and several refurbished heavyweight cars. Named for the man who founded the railroad and Lehigh University, the Asa Packer made it's first run in February of 1939.

The orange and black livery was replaced a year later by Kuhler's black and Cornell red scheme of the LV's John Wilkes and Black Diamond. A solid Cornell red paint scheme came in 1948 when the railroad deseilized. Declining revenues from passenger service halted the Asa Packer in April of 1958 and passenger service on the Lehigh Valley was discontinued altogether in 1961.

(from the IHC website: http://www.ihc-hobby.com/cgi-bin/bsc.cgi?sn=518)

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again gentlemen, Tom I found my little lost sheep. It's on page 140, the Nipissing Central and a follow up on their rolling stock. That should fall in the calssic juice line up right before the Witt car one. I didn't flag it like the other's but it's one Nick will apprciate as it has routes with the Ontario Northland.

I did put several small blurbs up ( charts etc ) but they wern't ment to be part of the juice barn.

I figure that between Ted and myself we can pay Al on a part time basis,this leaves Cindy more time for her "other pursuits"[:O][tup][:-^]


Nick Glad you cruised by again, mind the "dillo stuff" at least he's trained to do it by Boris's shed now. Not suprised that cnr Zebras are backing up the Northlander. CN and ONR tend to work fairly well together with the joint trackage to NorthBay etc.The TTC runs garbage trains out of the subway system as well, they use several of the RT class flat motors. This refuse is then collected at the main surface access yard of the TTC subway system and transfered to turcks and then out of the city. The yonge street and bloor street lines both have outside ie in daylight storage yarrds and some daylighted runs. Part of the Bloor line passes on a viaduct that crosses the Don Valley parkway.

Ian Wilson and his crew are great info guys but yes as modellers they are your ptototype rivet / gear heads, But to their credit they are always willing to help. Did you see that Ian's next book CNR Steam in Northern Ontario is out in February. It should be a good one, as with the rest of his books those who prebooked will get their signed copies at the Copetown train show with books on sale everywher else the following day.[:D][yeah[tup]][:D]




Pete Yes loss of power would automatically put most street cars into emergancy. In that the brakes would enguge. The motorman would then lock the car down with the habd brake as once the powers off air brake equiped cars wouldn't have power to pump the air tanks back up till power was restored. On all electric Pcc's and the new TTC CLRV's the track brakes ( basically a big magnet deploys from the bottom of the truch to hold the car in place till the power can be restored. The crews once the car was stopped could manually relese the doors to let passengers out.


Tom I will check my emails in a few minutes and respond accordingly. [tup]

Al Thanks for the additional, LV and dome info knew you wouldn't let us down [tup][bow]

Later fellas

Rob

[wanswheel]

Nothin', just stopped in to tip my hat to the proprietor and certainly also to Theodorebear

[jlampke]

Gents: Lots of interesting posts here.... I have a few questions if you don't mind.

It seems like I read somewhere that the SP had just over 1,100 passenger cars at the beginning of the '60's. Does anyone know how accurate that number is?

Also, does anyone know roughly what percentage of them would've been painted in Daylight colors?

Also, I assume most of them survived through the '60's and were turned over to Amtrak when the latter took over passenger service. Is that correct? Anyone know any numbers there? Was it a give-away or was money exchanged?

What has become of the cars that the SP turned over to Amtrak?

Do any of the articulated car sets from the original Daylight trains in the '30's still exist?

Does anyone care to offer a guess as to how many of the ex-SP pre-1958 Daylight cars still exist? I am interested in cars that would've been pulled behind GS locomotives.

Thanks, John

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again gentlemen. I figure that with the unpleasantness hapening on our fare frum this evening that I would through in another piece for my barn.This will be the abrieviated tale of the Alliston Subdivision. Today this subdivision still caters some auto trains for the new car plants but is mostly known for it's steam powered resident the South Simcoe Railway thatruns steam excursions in the summer.Between Tottingham and Beeton Ontario.

CNR Steam The Alliston Subdivision Trains


Beeton to Collingwood Mixed Train

Alliston - Team track ( frieght shed plus stock pens )Peter Thompson & Sons,Gibson feed Mill , coal and lumber yard. team Track shipments included tobacco,potaotoes, and when in season Christmas trees.

Everett - team track ( served Alderson Coal, Gibson's elevator and grist mill )

Glencairn - team track ( local produce & animals )

Avening- team track ( same as above )

Creemore- team track ( frieght shed lcl , grain elevator, cattle pen ,Peter Thompson planning mill shipped from freight shed ) H. P. Shepard & Sons grain mill spur.

Glen Huron - team track ( Hamilton Brother's shipped / recieved feed , lumber , hardware and coal )

Duntroon - team track ( grain elevator , cattle ramp )

Nottawa - team track ( cattle pens ) Stock day once per week , later served by Meaford way feight.

Untill the time table change in april 1930 the second mixed train M393/392 leaving Beeton in the evening returning to Collingwood the following morning.After the early 1940's only mixed trains M391/394 were run on this sub. In the 30's and 40's the power was the ancient moguls 593,607,& 633. Once they were retired in the early 50's custmary power was by ten wheeler's 1287,1207,1358,1360,1363,1364,1390,&1397. Once in a while Allandale mogul's 87 or 88 would handle these trains their last runs were in 1955 however.Thes trains usually had one or two old wood coache/combines for the passenger compontent and handled mail a all the station's until 1955.

It was jokingly sadi that on the Alliston subdivision, trains went 20mph foreward,20mpf sideways and 20mph up and down due to the rural nature of the sub and it's 56 lbs rail ! All old ex Canadain Northern 10 whelers and moguls were used on this line due to it's delicate light rail.The only regular non mixed passenger train to ply this line was in the form of train 661 from Hamilton this train ran through to collingwood normally powered by D-1CNR's infamous first diesel powered doodle bug which was more off than not out of service and replaced by a light pacific or 10 wheelers.The mixed trains would have an old wooden baggage and a coach all of ex CnoR fame.


Rob

PS Tom email recieved and responded to.

[trolleyboy]

Tom insomnia again imagine you being awake this time of night. Check your inbox if you are up to it i'm up and about for a bit.

Rob

[siberianmo]

Good Early Mornin’,

Looks like a busy night, so I will get right to the acknowledgments:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 21:57:31 and 23:33:01 and 15 Nov 2005, 01:16:23

Glad you found your missing sheep! Your Barn will be updated ……. [tup]

I’ll have to give this idea of yours regarding a permanent tax guy some additional thought. Cindy is MINE – mine, mine, mine! Oooooops, got carried away there. Of course, it’s a bittersweet affair in that she’s stuck on Nick, Nick, Nick! Anyway, she’s only going to be with us through the end of this semester, then it’s back to her full time faculty job at the all female college up the road ‘n ‘round the bend. Sabbatical will be over next month ….. [tdn]. I just may put ALL of you on part-time status if the business doesn’t pick up and get hoppin’ on a regular basis! [swg] Translated: the more time the staff spends ‘round here, the more bucks get drawn from the tub!

Your Email has been received and responded to ….. Thanx! [tup]

Nice CNR Steam (#2), which will be also added to your Barn! Let’s keep it goin’ this way – you Post ‘em and I’ll confirm “acceptance” into the Index – that way we won’t have anymore of this “lost” stuff! [swg]

Oh [yeah] a bit of insomnia once again! So what better place to spend the time than here [?] [swg]

wanswheel Mike Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 22:20:41

[#welcome] Aboard, Mike! Appreciate your Email and I’m glad you took me up on the offer to drop by. You will find there’s all kinds of “stuff” to get involved with ‘round here. Don’t let the volume chase you off. I recommend a peruse of page one – the go back 5 or 6 pages from here and check out the way we do things at the bar. You’ll catch on in no time.

Anything that you feel comfortable with talking about is fine with us. Our focus is on Classic Trains – real ‘n model but as you will see, we also like to have a bit of fun in other areas as well. Lookin’ forward to your participation with us!

We have a “Cast of Characters” ‘round here too, and you’ll quickly adjust to them as well. We’re all in this together – so pull up a stool, and enjoy the first drink – it’s on me! [tup][tup]

jlampke John Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:04:15

[#welcome] Aboard, John! Your Email was received and responded to – Thanx! As with my comments to Mike, you may want to follow the same routine. Although you have indicated that you’ve been checkin’ us out for some time.

The SP had 1002 passenger cars back in 1950. I’ll yield to our regulars (most probably, passengerfan Al) for answers to the remainder of your questions.

Now it’s time to belly up to the bar and enjoy your first one on me! [tup][tup]

I’m lookin’ forward to some Classic Trains input from you …… c’mon in, the water’s fine! [swg]

Catch y’all in the daylight!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS


G’day Gents! We open at 6 AM (all time zones!)

Help yourself to the freshly brewed “Joe,” and while you’re at it, check out the fresh pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery. Also, don’t forget the <light> breakfasts on the Menu Board! [swg]

Info for the Day:

Nothing special – “routine” for the week:

Wednesday is “Pike Perspectives Day.”
Thursday is “Fish ‘n Chips Nite.”
Friday is “Pizza Nite” and “Steak ‘n Fries Nite.”
Saturday is “ENCORE!” day.

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 05:31:33 (162) Monday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 05:33:06 (162) Fallen Flag – LV

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 07:31:03 (162) Sunday acknowledgements

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 07:45:16 (162) Inclusive Post!

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 08:21:20 (162) more on the LV

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 10:03:32 (162) Birthday Watch List!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 10:08:39 (162) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(8) trolleyboy
Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:05:45 (162) Inclusive Post!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:15:31 (162) NOSTALGIA #24 – AT&SF, Ad (1951)

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:53:40 (162) Classic Juice – The Safety Car

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 15:00:44 (162)

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 15:44:55 (162) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 16:42:34 (162)

(14) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 17:08:37 (162) AT&SF Pleasure Domes

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:35:16 (162) Inclusive Post!

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:43:52 (162) Interloper warning!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:58:19 (162) reply to pwolfe – passengerfan – nickinwestwales

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 19:26:09 (162) LV passenger cars

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 20:17:46 (162) reply to passengerfan – LV info

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 21:57:31 (163) Inclusive Post!

(21) wanswheel Mike Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 22:20:41 (163) 2nd visit!

(22) jlampke John Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:04:15 (163) 1st visit!

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:33:01 (163) CNR Steam #2 The Alliston Subdivision Trains

(24) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:16:23

(25) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:46:07 (163) reply to trolleyboy – wanswheel – jlampke

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Here’s the last of the Fallen Flags for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (GM&O)

Headquarters: Mobile, AL

Mileage in 1950: 2,900

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 246

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 13,933
Passenger cars: 135

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Springfield-East St. Louis, IL & St. Louis, MO-Corinth-Meridian, MS-Mobile, AL
Springfield-Kansas City, MO
Bloomington-Murrayville, IL
Dyersburg, TN-Union, MS-Mobile, AL
Meridian-New Orleans
Artesia, MS-Montgomery, AL
Memphis, TN-Birmingham, AL (Southern rights between Memphis-Corinth, MS; and IC rights Corinth-Birmingham)
St. Louis-Mexico, MO (Terminal Railway Assn., rights East St. Louis-St. Louis; CB&Q rights St. Louis-Mexico)
Godfrey-Roadhouse, IL
Springfield-East Peoria, IL
Dwight-Washington & Lacon, IL

Passenger trains of note:

Alton Limited (renamed “The Limited”; Chicago-St. Louis)
Abraham Lincoln (Chicago-St. Louis)
Ann Rutledge (Chicago-St. Louis)
Midnight Special (Chicago-St. Louis)
Prairie State Express (St. Louis-Chicago)
The Mail (Chicago-St. Louis)
Gulf Coast Rebel (St. Louis-Mobile & Montgomery, AL)
The Rebel (St. Louis-New Orleans, LA)
Night Hawk (St. Louis-Kansas City)


Post Script: This 42nd Fallen Flags Post concludes the series begun way back on page 106 with the SP (Sep 12th) followed by MoPAC (Sep 13th). Some of the Flags still “fly,” but not for passenger operations. The idea has been to bring back those passenger trains of days gone, if only for another moment.

It was a labor of my love of trains in assembling these and I learned quite a bit along the way. I hope those who looked forward to and followed these Posts, that they have been entertaining and perhaps educational.

I will continue to run NOSTALGIA and ENCORE! pieces until the well runs dry ….

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Mornin` guys-just stopped in for a bite & a mug of tea whilst waiting for the rain to stop so I can get up on the roof ( dont ask...)
ROB-right on the mark with C.N.R piece-this is one of the trains I will be working into my `imagineered` timetable so `switch list` especially useful ( I have in mind the oldest looking combine I can find-prob. Bachmann or Model Power "shorty" repainted,a handful of cars and an R.S.2 on the point ) As justification for this monstrous distortion of reality,I believe the stub remains of the route are still serviced by the Barrie & Collingwood short line,at least as far as Tarpin Lumber.
Havn`t been able to track down any of Ian`s books over here-will have to keep an eye out ,should I find myself in your neck of the woods...........
[4:-)]TOM-A tour-de-force on the fallen flags,I`ve learned a lot-although still without a frame of reference to hang much of it on.-Now am I right in thinking that the G.M&O later joined with the Illinois Central and is now part of C.N ? If so,an appropriate conclusion to the series for Can-Am residents-An American line now run by Canadians & providing a continuous link from the Gulf all the way north,nice touch..[^]...
O.K guys,looks like the rain is backing off a bit,time to start pulling on the oilskins (waugh) I`m outta here,later,nick[C=:-)]
P.S [#welcome] aboard MIKE & JOHN,hope you enjoy the ride [tup]

[wanswheel]

Well thanks Tom. I posted in Amtrak Quiz thread and I'd like to elaborate a little bit about that: The CV, the B&M, the New Haven and the Pennsy ran the old "Montrealer" and southbound "Washingtonian" until the B&M wanted out of the passenger business in 1966. My grandfather, Joe (1881-1971) of the Central Vermont Railway, was often the engineer on that train.

Mike

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee for me, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Let's listen to "Long Hard Ride" by the Marshall Tucker band.

Here's a list of anthracite mines served by the Lehigh Valley in 1950.

Lehigh Valley Railroad

Bernice White Ash Coal Co., Inc.
Connell Mine – Bernice, PA (Sullivan County?)
Colitz Coal Co., Inc.
Colitz Colliery – York Farm Jct. (Schuylkill County)
Harry E. Coal Co.
Harry E. and Forty Fort Collieries – Luzerne – LV/DL&W
Hazle Brook Coal Company
Continental Mine – Centralia, PA
Midvalley Colliery – Wilburton, PA
Heidelberg Coal Co.
Heidelberg No. 1 Mine – Avoca, PA – LV/D&H
Hydrotated Anthracite Fuel Co., Inc.
Cold Spring No. 6 Washery – Milnesville, PA
Jeddo-Highland Coal Co.
Drifton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Eckley & Buck Mountain Mines – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 4 Mine – Jeddo, Pa
Highland No. 5 Mine – Jeddo, PA – Coal prepared at Jeddo No. 7
Stockton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 7 Breaker – Jeddo, PA
Kehoe-Berge Coal Company
William A; No. 10 Tunnel; Phoenix A; Red Ash; Stevens; No. 11 Slope Mine – Old Forge, PA – LV/NYO&W
Exeter Mine – Pittston, PA
Lehigh Valley Coal Company
Dorrance Colliery – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Henry Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Prospect Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Westmoreland Mine – Wyoming, PA
Hazleton Shaft Colliery – Hazleton, PA
Franklin Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Locust Coal Company
Weston Colliery – Shenandoah, PA
Mammoth Coal Co.
Mammoth Colliery – Raven Run, PA LV/RDG
Morea Mining Co.
Morea Colliery – Morea, PA – LV/PRR
Payne Coal Co.
Spring Mountain Mine – Jeanesville, PA

There were more than a few operations still active in 1950. If you look you will see that some of these mines were served by more than one railroad.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Good Mornin’,

Another rainy start to the day in mid-continent USA, blustery once again and just the kinda day to spend with the model railroads! (Or a great gal and a bottle of “Jack” …… oooooops, reverted to my sailor days (daze) again! [swg]

A comment for our two new customers – Mike ‘n John – I should have mentioned this in the Email: Our guys generally stick pretty close to the “bar” and we’ve all been “out there” on the Forums. Many of us – not all – are “totally turned off” by the nonsense, junk and brainless crap proliferating what could and should be some intelligent interaction. So, if you make reference to something on another Fourm and Thread, most probably it will go unnoticed. Best to Post it again here if you want to catch the attention of our regulars. Thanx! [tup]

I encourage you to review what we’ve discussed in order to get up to speed …….

Now to the acknowledgments:

nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:33:36

You hit the nail on the head with your progression for the GM&O Back in 1947, they incorporated the old Alton RR. Then in 1971, they merged with the IC to become the ICG. Today it’s all CN. Quite a network of steel rail.

Received your Email and my recommendation is to get hoppin’ on your Rendezvous suggestions. While nothing is actually cast in stone at this point – some things definitely are: (1) Arrival on Thurs, May 11th – (2) May 12th is the “formal” Rendezvous Day – (3) May 13th is for “spillover stuff” – (4) Sun, May 14th is departure day for moi.

We now have four absolutes signed on and I hope your plans enable you to attend! [tup] More by Email is the best way to continue this dialogue, eh [?] [swg]

wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:59:44

Good to see ya again! Up all night, or so it seems [?] The older I get, the more that seems to be the case ….. <groan>

Check out yesterday’s SUMMARY, in particular the INDEX. You will find a listing for the Fallen Flags that have been runnin’ for a couple of months. You may want to check out those RR’s of interest to you. (While some RR’s are still operating, they are “fallen” only in the sense that passenger ops ceased years ago…….)

Given that family history of railroading, there’s no doubt you’ve got a story or two to share! [tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 07:59:12

[yeah] Marshall Tucker will liven and brighten up the joint this AM! [tup]

Interesting stuff on the LV (and other) mines – thanx! One day, Pennsylvania may “sink” should all of the surface area “settle” into where those mines once were. [swg]

Have any input regarding the passenger cars of the LV [?] Seems a bit odd that they didn’t own any, at least for a year ……

Hope you can stop by again today ……. Appreciate the round and of course the money for our Juke – Herr Wurltizer! [tup] Must be runnin' late for class today, eh [?] [swg]


Catch y’all in the daylight!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[siberianmo]

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #25

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1952 advertisement in my personal collection.


. . . . . . . . . . a trip . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . you’ll always . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . remember . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . The comfortable way to see . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the most colorful part of America . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . is on anyone of Santa Fe’s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . five famous trains between . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . Chicago and California – through . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the Southwest Indian Country . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Super Chief – Chief – El Capitan – Grand Canyon – California Ltd.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Santa Fe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom and the rest of "youse" guys[:D]

It's rainy and awfull here so I figured I'd pop by before tackling some nagging projects in the train room.

Forts off I'll welcome Mike and John to the fold. I'm looking forward to sharing a yarn or two with you gentlemen. Mike family railway stories are always most welcome here so please do share [tup] I had a great grandfather that was a section man on the CNR based out of Palmerston ontario so I have the odd tale from my mother about her grand dad's rail adventures.


Tom Say it ain't so, there has to be more fallen flags somewhere ! seriously an entirly enjoyable series and I know the amount of heart and soul that you put in to them. You have to like the GM&O though mostly Alco power on their passenger trains at least in diesel daze. PA's and FA's to of my personal favourites. BTW anyone wanting some good Alco PA info JHHplanesntrains has an interesting thread going on the old D&H PA that is being restored,worth a read.

Tom I enjoyed our chat this morning nice to put a voice to the name if you know what I mean. [tup]


Nick glad I was of assistance in your timetabling ( not sure that's a word but what the heck we are with friends here ) Those old MDC's or Bachmans should do nicely.solid olive green with the duluxe gold lettering would be the paint job on those cars. Even the baggage car they used were wood, I'd say 53 foot cars likely 62 at largest. remembering that ancient 4-6-0's and 2-6-0's pulled these trains. They definatly were not heavy weights.

If you do make our spring get together the museum gift shop has some of Ian's books for sale. bring your charge card [tup][swg]

There is still a stub of the Alliston Sub on the CN side it runs between Totingham and Beeton- south Simcoe Railways steam excursion, The other track you are thinking of is ex CPR they do still switch into Alliston,Orangeville,and Erin. That's the old CPR Orangeville subdivision. We need someone to go as detailed into CPR's operations as Ian has with CNR


Your right on of coarse the Rebel route still runs just under different ownership.

CM3 Another fine renditon of coal mining in pennsylvania. It is amazing how much raw material for the building of the industrialized world came out of pen and west Virginia. Tom's right I hope the crators don't fill in,on the upside think of the new lakes and streams that would have been created.[swg]


Tom i still see that you are here let me buy you one of those blues I owe you.Another fine ATSF passenger advert by the way as well.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

a small tidbit possibly another installment of classic juice. oh heck why not.

Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR

The CNR had dabled in electrification over the years, Mostly in the pre-CNR days. The Grand Trunk on several occations dabbled with traction usually with predictable results ( they gave up and dieselized )

The GTR's first flirtation was in 1902. They purchased a small radial line the Hamilton,Grimsby & Beamsville.They did this to keep this interurban out of arch rival Canadian Northerns Hands who themselves were starting to amass a lot of samller lines electric and otherwise. (The irony of this of coarse is that both these roads failed and were the main components of the Candain National Railway.)

Three years later GTW sold this electric line to Cataract Power( ontario based electricity and traction company. The Brantford and hamilton was part of this group as well ) after losing interest in traction.

The very next year 1906 GTW purchased the Montreal and Southern Counties which had been incorporated in 1897 but has yet to start construction. The affair wasen't rushed no construction began really until 1909, even then it was slow and steady. The MS&C never reached it's intended target of Sherbrooke by 1925 when construction officially ended they were a 58 mile interurban. Sevice was discontinued in 1956.

The only mainline electrification Grand Trunk ever undertook wasthe St Clair Tunnel, this was only done after two fatal incidents with crews of steam engines asphyxiating in the 6,032 foot tunnel under the river.The tunnel was built in 1891 but even though desugbners said that electricity ws the way to do it the process was expensive so GT opted for athrasite burning 0-10-0's and a set of fans.The first accident occured in 1897 the second in 1904. So the electrification finally took place in1906 completeing in 1908. A four mile electric zone !The tunnel bed was lowered by CN in 1941 to increas capacity and lesson ferrry trips of frieght cars it was formally dieselized in 1958. Of coarse the whole tunnel was replaced in 1992.

The last major attempt at electrification by the Grand Trunk occured in BC. This was to be part of the Ill fated Grand Trunk Pacific.The Line between Prince Rupert BC and Fort Frasor was to be electrified do to the tunnels. The line started in 1905 with the last spike of the GTP layed in manitoba in 1914. Do to the lack of money the electrified portion never occured, Blasting of tunnels and some daylighting of the line was done instead at a far greater cost.The GTR bankrupsy of 1920 occured shortly after this second transcontinintal line was completed.

CNR's other predessesor the Canadian Northern also flirted with electrification.Most notably they began construction in 1912 the Mount Royal Tunnel in Montreal even though the co was racked with debt.

The CnoR felt that the tunnel has to be built because they had pooraccess to the city centre, as their terminus ws Morell street well east of downtown wher rivals CPR and GTW were located.With a population of 600,000 and being Canada's major seaport at the time the CnoR felt that money troubles or not they needed the access to Montreal to survive.

The new twin tracked tunnel ( under the city and the competition )was 3.3 miles and lentgh and was to be electrified.The electrification was to extend several miles beyond the tunnel . At Portal Heights the west side of the tunnel a station linkinf th CnoR with the CPR running above was to be built. A model town called Mount Royal was built to feed passengers to this new line.It ws laid out neatly with wide roads high quality houses etc and the roads wer paved with the stone excavated from the tunnel.The idea was that the inhabitants iof this new town werea ten minute ride to downtown via the CnoR's new electric line.


The project looked good on paper but by the time it was completed in 1918 the CnoR no longer existed. IT had been combined with tthe Candian government railways to form the new National Transcontinental and Inter colonial Railway. which in 1921 was joined by the defunct GTW/GTP to become the Candian National Railway.


What happened to the Mount Royal line? It's still around CN actually extended it Catenery and all to St Eustache & Deux montagnes. This comuter line is still operatied under the wire by CN for the Montreal transit authority !

The national harbour board electrics from the Port itself and the NS&T in Ontario wer also members of the Candian Northerns elctric lines and thus became CN property in 1921. The Mount Royal tunnel was demolished in 1943 and replaced byCN's Central station now the location od Place Boneventure. in 1964 montreal's subway system connect her with th electric MU coaches and Via trains,

At only 28 miles this electrified route certainly isn't the most impressive but it still operates today. heres how the rest of the CN electric lines panned out.


Toronto & Eastern ( ex CnoR ) aquired in 1917 abandined in 1924
Chatham Walaceburg & Lake erie ( ex CnoR )aquired 1917 abandoned 1930
Toronto Suburban Railway( ex Cnor ) aquired 1917 abandoned 1931 *
Shawinigan Falls Terminal RY ( ex GT joint CPR ) aquired 1950 dieselized 1958
Montreal & Southern Counties( ex GT ) service ended 1956
St Clair tunnel line ( ex GT )aquired 1920 dieselized 1958 largly unused 1992
Quebec Railway Light & Power Co (interurban ) Purchased 1951 dieselized 1959
Niagara st cath & Toronto ( ex CnoR )purchased 1917 dieselized 1960
Fort William hump yard trolley built 1924 discontinued early 60's
Cornwall Street Railway- bought and dieselized in 1971( freight only after 1953 )
London and Port Stanley bought 1966 alrady dieselized-largly abandoned
Mount Royal Tunnel Line(ex CnoR ) began 1918 operated for STCUM since july 1 1982

Rob

a Post script. You will note that I marked the Toronto Suburban Railway with a *This is becaus eit's not totally abandoned. The TSR was an interurban joining Toronto and Guelph on.The TTC still operates some of it's city trackage. In 1954 our museum's founding fathers bought up the portion of the line that we run on. we had to completely relay the track and catenery but I supose we do occupy the original ROW so that at least is note worthy.

[siberianmo]

G'day Rob

It surely appears that you are the only regular still around on this Earth today! Go figure, as the kids say. [swg] Really had hoped for the return of West Coast S Dave given the interest in the SP. Also passengerfan Al must be sequestered somewhere burnin' whatever "oils" are left in the lamp! [swg] Then there's our part-time Manager Thedodorebear Ted - a no show today. Hmmmmmmmm - hope all's well with him. Even coalminer3 CM3 kinda blew off today's "stuff." Better go check the coffee pot - you ARE ordering the good stuff, aren't you, Mr. Bar Chandler [?] No recycled coffee grounds 'round here ya know! [swg]

Figured with the new guys checkin' us out, we'd get some interaction goin' ..... nope. <frown> Oh well, win some - lose some - and some are (all together now!) rained out! [tup] [swg]

Yes, we had a good chat didn't we [?] Seemed like we've known one another all along - which of course we have if you consider how long we've been in the Ether! From the Canadian Passenger Railroads thread to the Coffee Shop to here. Guess that qualifies for a good start, eh [?]

I will more than likely resubmit those Fallen Flags for another run through given that many probably were missed, blown off or forgotten! Not by the "faithful" few, but perhaps by others. You are correct, a lot of work went into them and I suppose I can "justify" another "go"! Appreciate your appreciation! [swg]

Another Classic Juice!! We've just got to get you a 2nd job and keep you away from the keyboard, Mate! All kiddin' aside, gimme a break! [swg] Now, in all seriousity (another siberianmoism for you to steal!) they are appreciated and I hope the guys take the time to check 'em out. Lots of good info and of course effort. Thanx! [tup][tup]

Whenever I read your submissions about these electrified beauties (or beasts, depending on one's perspective!) I come away thinking how absolutely insane things can get regarding mass transportation. Here in St. Louis we are spending a King's Ransom for a piddly 8 mile expansion of a light-rail system when not that long ago trolley tracks linked the area! Arggggggggggggh. There used to be a saying, "Waste not, want not." And it applied pretty much to food on the table, but equally to precious resources too. I consider taxpayers dollars precious, especially if they are mine! Double - Arggggggggggggh. [soapbox] BUT on topic! [swg]

Really pleased with the forward momentum regarding our Rendezvous in Toronto for this May. To get four of us "locked" in at this juncture is outstanding, especially when one considers the relative small number we have as regulars. [tup]

You may certainly buy one of those Blues from Labatts for me - but it ain't comin' from ones (plural) you owe me! Those are to be paid up in Toronto! Nice try. <major grin> Hey, Vito the Hit keep an eye on this 'dodger' he's tryin' to skate out on his debt! <ooooooooooohhhhhhh>

Thanx for stoppin' in again (and again)!

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Tom guess it's just you and I in the either and the real world today.[tup][:D]

I have in fact been stocking up on the finest instant[swg][oops] columbian coffee that I can find. Of coarse if the paying public stay low then we will have to relay on that crate of old "K "rations, I found behind the shed. Wonder what nick can whip up with them.

Perhaps vito is the problem he may be scarring off the customers. We should end hi to Mama Leonies hitman finishing school. You know that no one likes a hitman that slouches,or doesn't show the common coutesies.

Seriously though it is wonderfull that the rendezvous is on track and happining [yeah] Good thing that labatts has a brewery or two in the GTA. It did seem like I had known you forever,you see that twisted sence of humour we both have comes through quite well on the keyboard. since I am certainly off topic Boris ring your ding lets have a round for the track crew and Tom and I. bwwoooong gwooong bwooong What the heck how did that happen again.[swg][:-^][:-^]

I think that i shall continue burning up the keyboard in efforts to drag some responses out,at leats until I develope carpel tunnel [swg]

Catch you soon.

Rob

[Trainnut484]

Good evening Tom et all, and to the new cyber names that have been welcomed here. Miller Lite for me please, and give everyone their choice of poison on me [:)]

This semester is keeping me hoppin', but I've stuck my toe in a few times during the week trying to keep up with what's going on.

I owe a big belated congrats to CM3 for promotion to Permanent Stool Member.

Dan, I don't know why the block out gremilins are showing up. Have you recently added any new software?

Tom, the Nostalgia pieces on the LV, GM&O, and the Santa Fe are great. Most of the nostalgia some people focus on is of the trains themselves. Those trains wouldn't have ran without the pristine effort of the people who operated and served on those trains. For example, I've aquired an Santa Fe ad from June 1948 "Santa Fe Hospitality all the way."

"You've heard of hospitality, but have you ever sampled
the Santa Fe kind of hospitality?
Whether it's starting a streamliner smoothly...
serving you in the diner (Fred Harvey food, of course)...
turning down crisp, cool sheets in your Pullman...
adjusting your seat in a chair car...warming a bottle for the baby...
Santa Fe people take real pleasure in serving your well.
May we have the pleasure of serving you on your next trip through the
colorful Southwest, between Chicago and California and Texas?"

SANTA FE SYSTEM LINES...Serving the West and Southwest

I would have enjoyed such service. Do you think Amtrak today would warm up a baby bottle for a mother?

Take care for now,

Russell

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin’,

Some acknowledgments:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 17:52:36

Back once again! I’d be verrrrrrry careful about any suggestions regarding Vito the Hit, he’s just a tad “sensitive.” By the by, what size shoe do you wear [?] I hear “cement” is “in” this year! [swg]

Now I just don’t want to hear that “Bwoooooooooong, Gwooooooooong!” sound any more! That was supposed to be taken care of. The Gold plated clapper is (or was) in Awk’s cage as his perch. So, Boris, have YOU been messin’ with this [?] Get it restored to the way it was and do it NOW! <Geesh> These cloven footed guys are somethin’ else ……. [swg]

I think you need to take a break, your fingers appear to be getting stuck BETWEEN the keys! [swg]

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 18:27:37

Whoa, is that our “part time” regular at the bar [?] [yeah] It’s the Santa Fe man himself! [tup] Ring it, Boris and let’s all enjoy that round that Russell has bought! [swg]

I think the Chiefs momentum got a bit sidetracked this past Sunday ……. [tdn]

Man oh man have you missed a lot. Veterans/Remembrance Day alone was something to behold and if you like RR ads – that’s where you can find ‘em.

Not trying to be contrary, but on a trip to KCity aboard Amtrak, the Café Car attendant did that very thing – warmed a bottle for a baby’s feeding. Probably doesn’t happen that often – but it happened and I was there in Business Class to witness it. Good show, eh [?]

Nice Santa Fe narrative ad …….. [tup]


Catch y’all later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[trolleyboy]

Here's some interesting info I dug out. This is a chart from rail Canada vol 1. It'sm showing the diesel strentgh on the CN and it's routes as of dec 31 1983. I'm just going to post the US assigned locomotives which were purchased and painyed for DW&P, GTW /DT&I/DTS and the CV. It will show build dates and the CN system model designators.




1500-1503 GR12C SW1200 built EMDin 1955 assigned to GTW
1509-1510 GR2J SW1200 built EMD in 1957 assigned to CV
1511 GR12Z SW1200 built EMD in 1960 assigned to CV
1512-1519 GR12ZA SW1200 built EMD in 1960 assigned to GTW
3600-3605 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 previous to 82 DWPin 1983 CV
3606-3608 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 assigned to DWP
3609 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 pre 82 DWP in 1983 CV
3610 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 assigned to DWP
3611-3614 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 pre 82 DWP in 1983 CV
4134-4138 GR17x GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned GTW
4139 GR17X GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned GTW
4427-4428 GR17b GP9 built EMD in 1954 assigned GTW
4430-4441 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1954 assigned CV
4442 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 assigned CV
4443-4444 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4445,4447 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 assigned CV
4446 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4448-4450 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4539-4546 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1557 assigned GTW
4547-4551 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned GTW
4552-4557 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned CV
4558-4559 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to GTW
4700-4707 GR18a GP18 built EMD in 1960 assigned to GTW
4900-4901 GR17c GP9r built EMD in 1956 assigned to GTW
4902-4906 GR17c GP9r built EMD in 1956 assigned GTW
4907-4914 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to GTW
4915-4927 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to CV
4928-4929 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned to GTW
4930-4933 GR17w GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned to GTW
5800-5811 GR20a GP38AC EMD in 1971 assigned to GTW
5812-5821 GR20d GP38-2 EMD in 1980assigned to GTW
5832-5836 GR20e GP38-2 EMD in 1978assigned to GTW
5850-5861 GR20g GP38-2 EMD in 1978 ex RI assigned to GTW
6041-6044 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1951 ex DTS 41-44 To GTW
6045-6049 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1952 ex DTS 45-49 To GTW
6050 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1953 ex DTS 50 To GTW
6200-6204 GR20 GP38 EMD in 1966 ex DTI 200-04 To GTW
6205-6206 GR20 GP38 EMD in 1969 ex DTI 205-06 To DTI
6207-6210 GR20 GP38AC EMD in 1970 ex DTI 207-10 TO GTW
6211-6220 GR20 GP38AC EMD in 1971 ex DTI 211-20 To DTI
Heavy road Freight
5900-5903 GF30f SD40 EMD in 1969 assigned to GTW
5904-5911 GF30f SD40 EMD in 1969 assigned to DWP
5912-5920 GF30g SD40 EMD in 1970 assignd to GTW
5921-5929 GF30j SD40 EMD in 1971 assigned to GTW
6250-6252 GF620 SD38 EMD in 1969 ex DTI 250-52 To DTI
6253-6254 GF620 SD38 EMD in 1970 ex DTI 253-54 To DTI
Us Lines Switch engines
1000-1003 CS9 S4 ALCO in 1949 ex GT 8082,84.8199,62 To GTW
6116-6118 GS12 SW7 EMD in 1950 ex DTS 116-18 To GTW
6119-6121 GS12b SW9 EMD in 1952 ex DTS 119-21 To GTW
7010-7014 GS12c SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned GTW
7015-7016 GS12d SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned CV
7017-7019 GS12d SW1200 EMD in 1955 assigned GTW
7225-7229 GS9b SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned GTW
7231-7232 GS9e SW9 EMD in 1958 assigned GTW
7967,7970 GS10a NW2 EMD in 1947 assigned GTW
7972,7974 GS10a NW2 EMD in 1948 assigned GTW
8027 MS10d S4 ALCO in 1953 assigned GTW
8034-8035 MS10f S4 ALCO in 1955 assigned GTW
8081,8093 MS10j S4 ALCO in 1942 assigned CV
8087,8088 MS10a S4 ALCO in 1947 assigned GTW
8120,8201,02 MS10k S4 ALCO in 1956 assigned CV

[Anonymous]

Good evening all. Tom, I think a Tom Collins would "hit the spot" this p.m., please. Rob, I can't believe the prolific amount of data you have posted on so many interesting areas of "Juice." and railroadiana.[tup][tup][tup] Pete, it looks as though Cm3 and Passengerfan Al have "come through" on the L.V. passenger side for you.[tup] [C=:-)] Nick dear boy, good to see your back in fighting trim. We have missed your sage comments and barbed humo(u)r, not to mention those wonderful menus on Thursdays through Saturdays. Hoping to see you in May.

This has been one horrific day for maintenance and "nuts and bolts" tasks on the HO Pike.[V] I've run "head long" into some wiring puzzles that require my undivided attention. Its a good thing I'm "part time" now because their doesn't seem to be any respite near to hand. Say, John and Mike, good of you to drop in again. I hope you won't be strangers because, as you may have noticed, this is a fun and friendly place where much is on offer.

Trainnut484, hello again and yes, A.T.S.F. always had the edge on their Public Relations and advertising. The "route of the stars" comes to mind during the 1940's, when many promotional "spots" were included in movies of the time. Anything from Abbott and Costello to the Judy Garland Hit, "The Harvey Girls" were of that genre. BTW, don't ask me how the Bucks pulled their game off and I won't ask about the Cheifs, a deal? Best of luck with your "finals" when they come up.[tup]

I have always thought of the GM & O as just another southern states R.R. with a pretty much "lack luster" past. Not true! In fact, to my astonishment, there is an avid enthusiasm among southern rail enthusiasts for their Roads. Perhaps the Lines themselves are more dimunitive but their operations are no less interseting than those of the West and North. It might be interesting to examine some pre civil war railroading in the U.S. and Canada just from a historic view, if nothing else? Mind you, I wouldn't be interested in the politics of that age one whit. However, the Civil War epoch was the first time railroads played a major role in warfare. The battle of Chatanooga Tennesee and the "Great Locomotive Chase" comes to mind immediately. Then too, the post civil war era when desperados regularly looted and plundered trains in the "Old West" could be of some interest as well. Any one care to "kick the tires" and "test the brakes" on this one? Just a thought.[:D]

Okay Boris, you know what to do, right? Uh oh! He is going out back to walk "Tex" on his evening "constitution." What a pair: the Iron Clad and the Ogre.[:O]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round please to celebrate a great Fallen Flag series as Nick has said a very enlightening series espcially for a newcomer to N.American railroads[tup].

Welcome MIKE and JOHN.

Thanks TOM and AL for the additional info on the Lehigh and the link.

CM3 Looking at the list of anthracite mines in 1950 how many are still being worked today[?] I hope they have fared better than the mines in the U.K. I can remember in the early seventys travelling up one of the valleys one evening with the goods line full of loaded coal trains heading to the Cardiff area. I think there is only one deep mine left there now.[V].

ROB thanks for the gen on the trolley brakes[tup].Another great Juice its strange that even when the equipment is in place some lines prefer diesel.In the U.K. there are many diesel-hauled frieghts under the wires while they have almost new electric locos stored [%-)]
Also thanks for the Alliston Sub I very much enjoy reading what traffic each town provided to the railroad[tup] in some line discriptions this is some times overlooked.

Glad you are back NICK[^][tup] you are right about the 'Brighton' tanks. When they were re-built I think REMEMBRANCE kept the name. I always thought that they were good looking engines after re-building. If I recall right the final accident which resulted in the re-build was at Sevenoaks. I seem to re-call reading that there was some controversy over the cause of the accident.

Sorry TOM meant to say Subway Cars not Trolley[*^_^*] I'd better buy AWK a packet of peanuts as penance[tup]

TED just read your post do you know anything about a movie called The Great Locomotive Chase which came out in the early 50s[?] Anything on the ealy railroads would be great PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening everyone. Tom I'm back in again for a nightcap. Tea and maybe well no I think I'll leave the found K rations the US army 1952 packing date is a bit worrisome[xx(]

Pete Your welcome. I'm glad that you are enjoying the juice pieces and the CNR steam pieces, makes it all worthwhile,seeing that my efforts are appreciated.

The one thing thta I like about Ian Wilson's books is that he includes the minute details such as the locomotive types and numbers and the type of product moved by the trains.

I agree with you whole heartedly,it never ceases to amaze me that so many perfectly good electric lines are dieselized. In many cases the electric locomotives are simpler and cheaper to maintain. Oh well a rants an rant.

Ted Glad you came up for air,I do love sorting out wiring defects on layouts ( not really ) At least you will have some tales tomorrow for pike prospectives[tup] Looking forward to seeimg you in May, Tom and I hamered out some final details and we should be in for a good couple of days ( daze )


Ted I always liked some of the lessor known movie trains. the ride in White Christmas was quite nice. Santa Fe and then B&M. Some really good shots and publicity for them in that one.

I would love to take a crack at the pre civil war trains. I'll have to check but there wasn't much rail action in Canada at that time, for that matter Canada wasn't even a country yet. I'll take a peak and see if I have any info for you though.


Nick Recieved your email thanks for the photo. If I saved it correctly I'm going to see if I can post it for everyone to enjoy on Sunday.



Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hi I'm back. Ted I found a small shred of pre civil war train info from Canada.As you know Canada didn't become self govering until Confederation in 1867. The only list of pre US civil war pre confederation trains I can find is a tiny railway in Quebec ( lower Canada at the time ) It started in 1836 and was called the Champlain and St Lawrence Railway. Most of the eastern roads the Great western etc Started around 1869-1871 certainly after the civil war. Of coarse the main rail building boom didn't get into motion until 1885 when The federal government chartered the CPR. Hope this sparks so more dialogue [tup]

Rob

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day!

Info for the Day:

Nothing special – “routine” for the week:

Today is “Pike Perspectives Day.”
Thursday is “Fish ‘n Chips Nite.”
Friday is “Pizza Nite” and “Steak ‘n Fries Nite.”
Saturday is “ENCORE!” day.

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:49:36 (163) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 02:04:59 (163) Final Fallen Flag – GM&O

(3) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:33:36 (163)

(4) wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:59:44 (163)

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 07:59:12 (163) Coal mines served by the LV

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 08:23:29 (163) reply to nickinwestwales – wanswheel – coalminer3

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 13:33:43 (163) NOSTALGIA #25 – AT&SF – Ad (1952)

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 13:55:25 (163) Inclusive Post!

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 14:55:15 (163) Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 15:22:02 (163) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 17:52:36 (163)

(12) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 18:27:37 (163)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 19:05:05 (163) reply to trolleyboy & Trainnut484

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 19:11:56 (163) CN Diesels of 1983

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 20:41:58 (164) Inclusive Post!

(16) pwolfe Pete Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 21:51:09 (164) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[jlampke]

Mornin' Tom. I got here last night just as you were leaving. It was a rare moment where I wasn't being called upon to resolve one dilemma or another, so I decided to look around "OUR" place and await your return. I'll take you up on that first round, if you don't mind, a shot of Absolute and grapefruit, or whatever's behind the bar there that mixes with vodka! My sailor daze have yet to end!!
First off, I'd like to thank Ted, Pete, Nick & Rob for making us new guys feel welcome. You gents may or may not have noticed, but I do drop in several times a day to warm my hands over the stove and see what's being discussed, then usually and quietly return to my duties out on the rock pile. I must give the tax-payers their due!
At any rate, you'll find me to be more of an "ask-questions" sort of person than a talker....
Does the fare behind the bar include Absolute?
Also, how do you get those Message Icons (thumbs up, etc.) to post?
There was a short item on the History channel last night about the staged train collision
in 1896 at the short-lived town of Crush, TX, during which two 4-4-0's with six cars each were run head-on into each other at about a combined speed of 100 mph. Very interesting, I thought.
Alan, thanks for answering some of my questions about the ex-SP passenger cars.
Very interesting stuff..... I wonder how many still exist, hidden away somewhere or carefully preserved?
I'll check back in later............

[nickinwestwales]

Well happy Wednesday to one and all,looking forward to pike perspectives and the weekend ( only one gig,albeit on sunday-almost like a holiday !! ).
Now I`m not normally a daylight tippler but as Missisnick is off on a work-related overnighter, I think I can bend a rule for the day so a Staropramen for me please [4:-)]TOM & put one in for yourself and the boys as and when ready whilst I knock up some bacon butties for myself & the track gang.
Right,whose been in since I was last about-
ROB- glad the pic made it through--extra large[tup] for the C.N allocations & roster-In a single page you have saved me hours of research-Top man [^][^]
SIR THEODORE-Always a pleasure to mix with quality [swg]--feel free to E-Mail me R.E. wiring [banghead] situation-perhaps a little brainstorming might point to a resolution. If all else fails the Basil Fawlty `hit it with a stick & swear` method,although unlikely to improve matters,will at least make you feel better ( works for me...doh )
PETE-Hi,nice to `see` you (so to speak)-Believe the problem with the `Rivers` was down to the height of the side tanks affecting the centre of gravity,whether this was a problem when full or caused by `slop` when part empty ( similar problems occur with road tankers I am told ) I don`t know.
I think I have a book of great rail disasters ( ghoulish but compulsive ) which may provide better data.
As to Welsh collieries, The last one was/is Tower,which was kept going after a workers buy-out ( you may remember this from before your re-location ) and had but one customer-Aberthaw Power Station,although I believe the mine is now mothballed & the power stn,if still running ,is fuelled by Orimulsion,Polish Lignite ( like coal but without the combustive qualities.....) or some such cr*p
[4:-)]TOM-as a past master at retro-fitting extra bits of layout into inaccessible areas,I may be able to help with any problems regarding the new Can-Am Metro project-please feel free to call on me at need
Right,have a good one guys,my chores await,later,nick[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Good morning you early risers. Tom, just a cuppa Joe to "kick start" the day please. Say Rob, thanks for your early response. I shouldn't have "opened a can of worms" so prematurely (Civil War). My time is "spoken for" with some problematic wiring puzzles to straighten out. There are a couple of ways of going at it and I must make some "for now and ever more" decisions. But truly, I was surprised at how advanced railroading had evolved prior to the U.S. Civil War period. Hopefully, I will find the time to get the "ball rolling" later next week or before. Any interested parties please "give it a go." In other words: "if I'm not there, start without me."[swg]

Early this A.M., I visited another thread concerning traction. Rob had already checked it out, so I merely left another invitation to "Our" Place for 2 enthusiasts. Perhaps we will have 2 new guests dropping by soon.[tup] Since I was "bounced" off my first post this morning, I must keep this one brief.

The "Rendesvous" for this Spring in Toronto is firming up now. Although it isn't until May, those thus far, attending are enthusiastically planning for maximum rail exposure and social exchanges. It should be a really good thing. Hopefully, some of our members will take a close look at the feasibility of meeting there too. I hate to "run off" like a thief in the night but Pike problems beckon. Maybe a pix or 2 of my earliest layout efforts may come through soon. Until then, all I can offer is a few verbal "shots." Okay, hope to check in later in the day. Happy rails

[coalminer3]

Good Morning: Coffee, please; round for the house; $ for the jukebox. Merle Travis this a.m. with "9-Pound Hammer," and Billy Edd Wheeler with "Coal Tattoo," one of the beter mining songs out there, IMHO.

A most interesting list re CN locomotive assignements, r/p, etc.

The CV-GT-CN-DWP moved and swapped power around so much it'll make your head spin. What was even more bewildering is that the engine numbers would sometimes change, too. I never knew what I was going to find when I went to St. Albans or to White River Junction.

I am slowly reading through all of the electrification material which has been posted recently. I am saving a lot of these postings.

As for LV passenger cars, Morning Sun did three books of LV color material. You will find a fair amount of coverage in those books. IIRC, LV 6 a HW business car is still with us. I used to see it in Syracuse a lot. Archer's book on the LV is probably the best overview out there although it does not have a locomotive roster. More's the pity as the Valley had some interesting motive power.

They started looking at diesels in the 1920s with locomotives bult by AlcoGE Ingersoll-Rand, MAcintosh&Seymour, and Mack. Up through the war years, they purchased switchers from EMC, Alco, and GE, The GEs were 44 tonners. Their first Baldwins were five VO1000s bought in 1944. The last of these survived until they were scrapped in 1972.

They bought FTAs, FTBs and F3As and F3Bs between 1945 and 1948. The PAs came in 1948. FAs and FBs were added in 1948. and the lmore Baldwins (DS4-4-1000s) joined the roster in 1949-1950.

The 1950s were a busy time as F7As and F7Bs, FA and FB2s, BLW S12s (the last Baldwins they bought). SW8s, SW9s, RS11s and GP9s were all added. The following types were added betwen 1960 and 1974: RS11s, GP18s, C420s, C628s, GP38s, GP38-2s, and U23Bs.

The LV did a lot with trade-in programs and also r/b more than a few units over the years. Most folks remember the C628s (aka "Snowbirds" because of their white color scheme. I remember being in the shops at Sayre when several of the snowbirds were being worked on. They were big, but looked tiny inside that monstrous shop building. Many of those engines started life on the Monon. BTW, most of you probably know this, but the LV called their switchers "pups." Always liked that.

Since we are doing a little with mines, here's a list of NYC-served mines in West Virginia. Dig out your maps of the NYC and look down toward the bottom right and you'll see a fairly extensive network of trackage in WV (lots of it is still active and is operated by the NS).

You will see some captive operations on the list and will notice that many operations were served both by the NYC and the C&O. The NF&G was a jointly-owned NYC/C&O railroad which desparately needs a book-length study similar to the one that was done not so long ago on the Mann's Creek RR.

New York Central

Alaska Coal Co.
Bellwood No. 71 Mine - Bellwood, WV (C&O/NYC)

Betty Paige Smokelss Coal Co.
Betty Paige Mine - Charmco, WV (C&O/NYC)
Bowyer & McClintic
Bowyer Mine - Springdale, WV (C&O/NYC)

Cannelton Coal & Coke Company (Controlled by Algoma Steel Corp, Ltd.)
Cannelton No. 3 Mine - Cannelton, WV
Cannelton No. 5 Mine - Cannelton, WV
Cannelton No. 100 Mine - Cannelton, WV

Cedar Grove Collieries
Cedar Grove Mine - Cedar Grove, WV/Kanawha River

Clear Creek Coal Co.
Brooke Mine - Clearco, WV (C&O/NYC)

Dixport Coal Co.
Cinco Mine - Leevale, WV (Kanawha County)
High Vein Coal Company
Amelia Mine - Amelia, WV (Kanawha County)

Jaromi Smokeless Coal Co.
Meadow Bluff No. 2 Mine - Rainelle, WV (NYC/C&O)

Low Ash Mining Co., Inc.
Green Siding Mine - Green Siding, WV (Fayette County) (C&O/NYC)
Meadow Bluff Smokeless Coal Co.

Laurel Creek Mine - Reese, WV (Greenbrier County) (NYC/C&O)

Mile Branch Coal Co.
New Raymond Mine - Cedar Grove, WV

Mountain View Coal Co.
Watts Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

New River & Pocahontas Consolidated Coal Co. - New River Division
Leslie Mine - Leslie, WV (Greenbrier County) - NYC/C&O

Otter-Eagle Coal Co. (Owned by Peters Creek Coal Co.)
Otter-Eagle Mine - Swiss, WV

Peters Creek Coal Co. (Owns Otter-Eagle Coal Co.)
Cornelia Mine - Cornelia, WV (Nicholas County)

Raine Lumber & Coal Co.
Duo Mine - Duo, WV (C&O/NYC) (Greenbrier County)

Rupert Smokeless Coal Co.
Bell Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

Semet-Solvay Division, Allied Chemical and Dye Corp
Harewood Mine – Harewood, WV and Kanawha River

Springdale Coal Co.
Springdale Mine – Bellwood WV (NYC/C&O)

Standard Fire Creek Cola Co. (Controlled by Republic Steel Corp.)
Beelick Knob Mine – Hawley, WV (C&O/NYC)

Standard Ore & Alloys Corp.
Clearco Mine – Clearco, WV (NYC/C&O)

Testa Bros. of West Virginia, Inc.
Belva Mine – Belva, WV


Warner Collieries Co.
Emily Mine – Mammoth, WV (Kanawha County)
Hurricane Mine No. 2 – Mammoth, WV

Nicholas, Fayette and Greenbrier Ry

Beech Knob Coal Co.
Beechknob Siding (Greenbrier Co.), WV

Greenland Coal Corp.
Greenland No. 2 Mine - Rupert, WV

Imperial Coal & Construction
Cobb Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

Johnstown Coal & Coke Co. (Wva)
Crichton No. 1 Mine - Crichton, WV
Chrichton No. 2 Mine - Bellburn, WV

Leckie Smokeless Coal Co.
Anjean Mines - Anjean, WV

Left Fork Fuel Co., Inc.
Timtony Mine - Quinwood, WV (NF&G/C&O)

Margarette Coal Corp.
Margarette Mine - Marfrance, WV

Note to the manager - that's why I have subsidence insurance on my fashionable sample of coal camp architecture. Doesn't cost that much, but it's nice to have, just in case.

work safe