Good evening Leon , I'll have a nice frosty Keith's and here's a couple extra bucks for a round for anyone else who is interested.
Lars-Hmm Peso's I don't think so , I have no need of Mexican money won't travel down there, I'm just not a sun and heat kinda guy. Great info on the ole GG1 , anything electric is AOK in my books to be sure.
Tom-Yes I suppose that we were concidered "colonists" as well,but once the bif influx of UEL's ( my family included ) came into the country we were treated alot differently, still technically a colony but we had far more self control and governance than was allowed below the 49th prior to the revilution, ( lessons learned I would surmise ) I prefer the green coat of the Glengary light Infantry though ( one of 5 regular Army regements raised in Canada to counteract te British Army's low numbers due to the War with Napolean.The Glengary's the 100th or Nova Scotia Regiment, The Royal Newfoundland Regiment,The 104th or New Brunswick Regiment, and the Canadian Fencible Light Infantry were all raised in the "colonies" of Upper and Lower Canada, Nova Scotia PEI and New Brunswick and NFLD between 1805-1810 all were trained and payed as regular regiments of the British army but had 90% Canadian Officers and ranks. Thes 5 regiments were the main force of the "british" forces involved in the first two full yeasr of the War of 1812.Approx 3000 men strong. small detachments of the British 41st 49th and 84th regiments rounded out the regular forces roughly 1500 more men. The five Canadian regiments were disbanded in 1816. Napolean was beaten the War of 1812 was over and the regular British army resumed it's garrison duties in the Canada's until 1857 when they were pulled out.I know more usless non train stuff but oh well interesting to me at any rate.The info on the eads bridge was simpy amazing. Just goes to show what kind of craftmenship is now most likley sadly lost to our presant day generations.
Nick-great photo's there sir. I recieved your email responce re that tattoo. All I can say is don't do anything rash
DL- Nice recounting of that train ride.One doesn't see many railways at least on this side of the pond still allowing cabrides. I imagine that today that wouldn't happen in your neck of the woods either.For me foe what it's worth loose tea or nothing. As my grandmother always said, "tea bags are just the dust drags left over from the loose leaf tea making process " I tend to aggree. Hard to get a good cup from a bag of any manufacture.The war in the Gulf of St lawrence was indeed quite a shock to the native Quebecois who were decidedly against our involvment in WW2. Sinkings near Montreal didn't help.
Pete-It is sad to say that so few young are taking up the restoration end of things. I have noted though that we seem to be attracting more and more young visiters to the museum. We have instsituted somne schoolage programs in hopes of hooking the next generation. Time will tell. At least the number of static musuems are still increasing, at least preservation still happens, the getting things rebuilt to running status is more difficult.
James-I'm still looking forward to your expose on the Lil Joes on Sunday should be a treat for all.
Rob
DL
Here's a couiple random photo's to help Nick contonue the good fight with his sanbox soldiers. LOL
Thes are shots in a major renactment of the recapture of Fort George ( Niagara on The Lake On ) from last summer. The redcoats that the renactors are protraying are the Candian fencilbes the Glengary Light, and the 41st reg of foot along with some six nations wariors. We had about 300 renactors out for this weekend, they cane from all over NY state and Ontario.
I'm in there somewhere hidden by black powder smoke !
ENCORE SATURDAY ENCORE SATURDAY ENCORE SATURDAY
A blast from aways back ( pg 163 ) to give us an early kick off to encore satrurday
trolleyboy wrote:a small tidbit possibly another installment of classic juice. oh heck why not. Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR The CNR had dabled in electrification over the years, Mostly in the pre-CNR days. The Grand Trunk on several occations dabbled with traction usually with predictable results ( they gave up and dieselized ) The GTR's first flirtation was in 1902. They purchased a small radial line the Hamilton,Grimsby & Beamsville.They did this to keep this interurban out of arch rival Canadian Northerns Hands who themselves were starting to amass a lot of samller lines electric and otherwise. (The irony of this of coarse is that both these roads failed and were the main components of the Candain National Railway.) Three years later GTW sold this electric line to Cataract Power( ontario based electricity and traction company. The Brantford and hamilton was part of this group as well ) after losing interest in traction. The very next year 1906 GTW purchased the Montreal and Southern Counties which had been incorporated in 1897 but has yet to start construction. The affair wasen't rushed no construction began really until 1909, even then it was slow and steady. The MS&C never reached it's intended target of Sherbrooke by 1925 when construction officially ended they were a 58 mile interurban. Sevice was discontinued in 1956. The only mainline electrification Grand Trunk ever undertook wasthe St Clair Tunnel, this was only done after two fatal incidents with crews of steam engines asphyxiating in the 6,032 foot tunnel under the river.The tunnel was built in 1891 but even though desugbners said that electricity ws the way to do it the process was expensive so GT opted for athrasite burning 0-10-0's and a set of fans.The first accident occured in 1897 the second in 1904. So the electrification finally took place in1906 completeing in 1908. A four mile electric zone !The tunnel bed was lowered by CN in 1941 to increas capacity and lesson ferrry trips of frieght cars it was formally dieselized in 1958. Of coarse the whole tunnel was replaced in 1992. The last major attempt at electrification by the Grand Trunk occured in BC. This was to be part of the Ill fated Grand Trunk Pacific.The Line between Prince Rupert BC and Fort Frasor was to be electrified do to the tunnels. The line started in 1905 with the last spike of the GTP layed in manitoba in 1914. Do to the lack of money the electrified portion never occured, Blasting of tunnels and some daylighting of the line was done instead at a far greater cost.The GTR bankrupsy of 1920 occured shortly after this second transcontinintal line was completed. CNR's other predessesor the Canadian Northern also flirted with electrification.Most notably they began construction in 1912 the Mount Royal Tunnel in Montreal even though the co was racked with debt. The CnoR felt that the tunnel has to be built because they had pooraccess to the city centre, as their terminus ws Morell street well east of downtown wher rivals CPR and GTW were located.With a population of 600,000 and being Canada's major seaport at the time the CnoR felt that money troubles or not they needed the access to Montreal to survive. The new twin tracked tunnel ( under the city and the competition )was 3.3 miles and lentgh and was to be electrified.The electrification was to extend several miles beyond the tunnel . At Portal Heights the west side of the tunnel a station linkinf th CnoR with the CPR running above was to be built. A model town called Mount Royal was built to feed passengers to this new line.It ws laid out neatly with wide roads high quality houses etc and the roads wer paved with the stone excavated from the tunnel.The idea was that the inhabitants iof this new town werea ten minute ride to downtown via the CnoR's new electric line. The project looked good on paper but by the time it was completed in 1918 the CnoR no longer existed. IT had been combined with tthe Candian government railways to form the new National Transcontinental and Inter colonial Railway. which in 1921 was joined by the defunct GTW/GTP to become the Candian National Railway. What happened to the Mount Royal line? It's still around CN actually extended it Catenery and all to St Eustache & Deux montagnes. This comuter line is still operatied under the wire by CN for the Montreal transit authority ! The national harbour board electrics from the Port itself and the NS&T in Ontario wer also members of the Candian Northerns elctric lines and thus became CN property in 1921. The Mount Royal tunnel was demolished in 1943 and replaced byCN's Central station now the location od Place Boneventure. in 1964 montreal's subway system connect her with th electric MU coaches and Via trains, At only 28 miles this electrified route certainly isn't the most impressive but it still operates today. heres how the rest of the CN electric lines panned out. Toronto & Eastern ( ex CnoR ) aquired in 1917 abandined in 1924 Chatham Walaceburg & Lake erie ( ex CnoR )aquired 1917 abandoned 1930 Toronto Suburban Railway( ex Cnor ) aquired 1917 abandoned 1931 * Shawinigan Falls Terminal RY ( ex GT joint CPR ) aquired 1950 dieselized 1958 Montreal & Southern Counties( ex GT ) service ended 1956 St Clair tunnel line ( ex GT )aquired 1920 dieselized 1958 largly unused 1992 Quebec Railway Light & Power Co (interurban ) Purchased 1951 dieselized 1959 Niagara st cath & Toronto ( ex CnoR )purchased 1917 dieselized 1960 Fort William hump yard trolley built 1924 discontinued early 60's Cornwall Street Railway- bought and dieselized in 1971( freight only after 1953 ) London and Port Stanley bought 1966 alrady dieselized-largly abandoned Mount Royal Tunnel Line(ex CnoR ) began 1918 operated for STCUM since july 1 1982 Rob a Post script. You will note that I marked the Toronto Suburban Railway with a *This is becaus eit's not totally abandoned. The TSR was an interurban joining Toronto and Guelph on.The TTC still operates some of it's city trackage. In 1954 our museum's founding fathers bought up the portion of the line that we run on. we had to completely relay the track and catenery but I supose we do occupy the original ROW so that at least is note worthy.
G’day Gents!
Saturday and the weekend is upon us! Time for a cuppa Joe, some pastries goods from the Mentor Village Bakery and of course, a selection from the Menu Board of our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts!
After a very looooooong day yesterday, I must admit to malaise on my part, as there was simply no motivation to log on – so I didn’t! Thankfully, Pete ‘n Lars’ Posts lifted us out of the doldrums, followed by some night-time and early morning appearances by our night owls!
Acknowledgments since my last Post:
DL at 11:45 AM yesterday: Smart move regarding the red coat, especially since Awk has unscheduled sorties ‘round it – advanced strafing and bombing exercises (ASBE)!
In the small world department, your mention of your uncle being trained in Canada for WWII flying brings to mind this tid bit: my wife’s father was an RCAF pilot who trained others for combat operations during the war. Wonder if they ever met
Fine looking locos those 18100s ‘n 18000s along with the detailed narratives!
Pete at 4:48 PM yesterday: Received and responded to your Emails – thanx!
Quite a best of a machine, that GT3 – and not that attractive to the eye, in my opinion. But performance over appearance, eh Youbetchaboots!
Can’t offer anything definitive regarding the right-of-way running north ‘n south by the Arch other than to say quite a bit of it was within short tunnels – emerging from place to place for spot viewing. Haven’t been down there in decades, so any information I have is truly dated. Yes, St. Louis at one time had a most interesting network of yards, rights-of-way and rail activity. Most of the passenger ops had ceased before my arrival in 1977, other than Amtrak. Back then a very deserted and run down Union Station was still the terminus for Amtrak. It wasn’t long thereafter when they departed for a series of trailers in a most unpleasant surrounding for their “station.”
The structures were supposed to be temporary – but they remained there until last year! The plight of Amtrak is well chronicled and there’s no need to resurrect it here. Suffice it to say they simply never received the public support along with Congressional budgetary dollars to rebuild infrastructure. Just didn’t happen.
The building Amtrak currently uses for a station is in close proximity to the “trailers,” and it was designed and built to be a maintenance facility. It is much more hospitable to the traveling public, but hardly a first rate station in a city trying to bill itself as – well, more than it is.
One day we will see a multi-modal station – plans have been approved, reapproved, discussed ad nauseam, and kicked around so much that I honestly cannot tell you when – if ever – this thing will be constructed. I recall being told that it’s start up was “imminent” and that was at least 10 years ago.
Now, with the St. Louis Union Station only a “name,” as it is a shopping mall and “attraction” for the upscale tourists (ha!), we see that the few remaining rails into it may very will be torn up, as current management has other plans for the area. Pity, eh I could go on and on about this – but it’s rather frustrating. RIP.
Thanx for those loco pix! Did you know that there is a small city in Nova Scotia named Truro It once was a most active rail hub for passenger service, but today has been relegated to handle the east and west bound VIA Rail “Ocean” on their 6 out of 7 day operations.
Lars at 5:02 PM and 6:56 PM yesterday: It was a deliberate decision to not ask for a stand-in
ENCORE! Saturday - ENCORE! Saturday
from Page 147
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #14 Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Budd Company and the Wabash from a advertisement (early 1950s) found in one of my scrap books.
New Blue Bird On The Wabash This is the Wabash Railroad’s new Budd-built, all-stainless steel Blue Bird, on its winging flight between St. Louis and Chicago. The Blue Bird will make the round trip daily between these two great terminal cities, adding to the completeness of Wabash service and presenting to its passengers comfort and luxury in rail travel previously unknown. For the Blue Bird is the latest in the roster of distinguished name trains which Budd has created for the modernization of American railroads. Four of its cars are Vista-Domes, giving passengers an unobstructed view of the rolling prairies, picturesque bluffs and river scenery along the way. Like all Budd-designed, Budd-built equipment, this train illustrates a principle – that better products are made of ideas as well as steel. This was true of the all-steel automobile body which Budd originated and which has made Budd the largest independent builder of body components in the world. It was true of the steel wheel which Budd developed to take the place of wood. It has been demonstrated in the Budd Disc Brake, and in stainless steel highway trailers. In the railroad field, Budd ideas were revolutionary. Ideas that attract passengers by making rail travel more inviting. Ideas that permit faster schedules and yield substantial operating economies. It was Budd vision which led to the whole concept of the modern, stainless steel light weight streamliner. And Budd today is the only car builder who employs the superior strength of stainless steel to achieve lightweight construction with safety. The Budd Co., Philadelphia, Detroit Budd Enjoy! Tom
Morning folks. Tom where's Tom .what are you doing in that back room with Cindy and Ruth Think I'll help myself to the coffee today. Here's a sack of lars' peso's for a round later on
Pete-I neglected to mention those wonderfull shots you posted yesterday .. bad me allow me to purchase your libations for the rest of today
Eric-Yep I'm in there, and no not something I do all that often anymore, too much time and cash. I help out for the major events which roll around infrequently.here was a major building program of electric systems in Canada and the US during the 1890's to 1920's periodlitterally hundreds of systems on both sides of the boarder.The comming of the oil compnaies and buses changed everything witht eh depression being the final straw for most of the systems. We never looked back unfortunatly and the looking forward of the 40's and 50's was darned nearsighted
Tom-Glad that you liked the encore, I enjoyed rereading the wabash material as well.In it's own way the Wabash was a hometown road of sorts, with it having connections through Fort Erie and down the Canada Southern. Two NS trains still trundle through today on those ancient trackage rights. As for the history. I still maintain that no one won that war, if there had been a winnah ( you folks ) We wouldn't be here as a separte country. We forced back all three invasions and before the smoke had settled in 1814 there were more pieces of the US occupied by us. Upstate NY from Buffalo to the lake Ontario.With Sacketts Harbour and Plattsburg under seige Mackinanc Island we grabbed it in 1812 didn't give it back till 1815 after the war was over.Coarse we made a mess of Mr Maddison's house and his city as well. Oh well what can you do. Interesting that the war was actually over before the last battle was fought at New Orleans,and they talk about transatlantic mail service being slow today anyway those on both sides will claim what they claim, only those that were actually there know what really transpired. They say history is written by the victors, well two sets of history, draw from that what you wish
Another chunk of pre history from the archieves.This came from pg 314 during a rather heavily participated in disscussion on the Western Pacific. enjoy again.
Tom-I see that your unwholsome doppeganger is back dropping usless posts here there and everywhere again not unlike a seagull
trolleyboy wrote: CLASSIC JUICE # 27 WP's ELECTRIC LINES Well good day again gents another round of Blue I think Tom please. I haven't much info on the WP, however after such info packed pieces as dave and yourself put forth I'll just add this little bit on WP's electric lines. I know that these are in no way complete. Perhaps our local West Coast connections can fill in the more interesting meat that i leave out as I know there will be much. in the days of steam most Railroads viewed the electric interurbans as interlopers that competed for customner traffic and were to be beaten down at all costs. the WP thought differently and purchased two local lines and continued to operate them as electric lines years after many such railways had faded into history. Indeed the Sacarmento Northern and the Tidewater Southern fed needed traffic to their WP parent, and were a help as opposed to a hinderence. When the Wp's last steam power was being phased out the SN steeple cabs still fed freight to it's parent from the electric lines industrial spurs. Built primarily as a passenger line the SN ran interurban cars for three decades between the communities of its region. Indeed in 1941 when the SN ran it's last interurban passenger cars it bosted then the longest interurban run in the country an approx 200 mile round trip. Boarding one of the SN's cars at the Trans Bay Terminal in San Francisco, a passenger would cross the Bay Bridge into Oakland and then out into the dry Oakland Hills Region and down into the San Ramon valley. At Pittsburg Ca,the car ferry Ramon carried the cars across the Sacramento River. Beyond there the interurban cars sped across the delta lands on trestles and levees toward it's namesake city of Sacramento then continued north through the Sacremento valley to it's termi nus in Chico. The SN began scrapping it's steeple cabs in the mid 50's and aquired it's own roster of diesel locomotive replacements, painted in WP company colours but still lettered for the SN. Gradulaly several segments of trackage were retired and the SN became a collection of spurs reached via trackage rights over other railways. The section between Marysville and Yuba City remained electrified until 1965. The other WP electric line was the Tidewater Southern. it evolved into the diesel world more completly than it's sister the SN and remained intact.WP bought the 46 mile line in 1917 gaining it's conection at Stockton via Modesto and Turlock. This small lines days of electrification fell victim to the depression in 1932 when the passenger service and electric service ended. The WP kept the line open for it's wine and fruit trade however, revenue the line still subsides on today. Enjoy Rob
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
History seems less and less ancient the older I get.
The Liberty Bell
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/libertybell1.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/libertybell2.jpg
Eads Bridge Trolley Station
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/eadsbridge-trolleystation2a.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/electricway-closup.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513425825985.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513552226279.jpg
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2004052513484626181.jpg
Amtrak
http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2006103019213413686.jpg
DL, the Mars flying boats are still in service
http://us.airliners.net/photos/photos/2/4/0/0445042.jpg
Aftenoon Greetings Gents!
Just a few comments on this day's offerings - but first, a round for the house, Ruth! Boris, ring it . . .
Rob at 10:42 & 10:49 AM: The better question is WHAT are those gals doing TO 'n WITH little old me <geesh> Can't a guy cut a break 'round here
A fine URL to peruse is this from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
It pretty much echoes much of what I recall being taught in grade school about the War of 1812.
You mentioned the return of a "doppeganger," where 'n when And what exactly is your definition of a "doppeganger" Thanx.
Sorry to have to break this to ya, Mate - but we DO NOT accept pesos as payment for anything in this place. Further, just try 'n exchange 'em over at the 2nd National Bank of Mentor Village and Vito the Hit will personally undertake one of his fits of rage over the transaction. I'd be verrrrrrrrrrrry careful if I were you! The way Vito puts it is, nothing personal but what is it you don't understand about money <grin> I hear cement galoshes are making a comeback.
Another fine ENCORE! to keep things rolling along . . .
Mike at 12:46 PM: Nice spate of Talgo selections!
Yeah, tell me about it - age has a way of unskewing the things we used to skew! (a siberianmoism fer sure, fer sure!)
Appreciate your taking the time to stop by!
Okay Gents, time for me to get back to the chores of this day. We just returned from a 2 hour round trip by car to our "local" Air Force Base. Gotta take advantage of the dwindling benefits while we can. Actually, had to "undo" something that wasn't quite right with yesterday's trek to the same location - the most boring ride in all of mid-continent USA! Oh yes, petrol is still holding at $2.08 (rounded) up at Collusion Corner, in spite of the lowest world price per barrel in over a year. Go figger . . .
Later!
Tom
from Page 149
Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with Classic Trains. Check this ad out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) [located on page iii] You make a 10% commission every time you reserve a Hertz car for a passenger! May I reserve a Hertz car for you at your destination?” That question is loaded – with potential profit for you. Ask it every time you sell a ticket. When the passenger answers “Yes” make the reservation and Hertz will send you 10% of the total car rental. Chances are good he’ll say “Yes.” This year hundreds of thousands of wise rail travelers will take advantage of this easy, low-cost way to take the train and have a Hertz car waiting when they arrive. Your part is easy. Fill out the triplicate form supplied you free by Hertz. Send one to the proper Hertz office, give the passenger one, and keep one. The handy Hertz directory lists more than 1,000 offices around the world. So you’re assured of Hertz service (and that 10% commission) wherever a passenger is going. Hertz’ low rates include all gasoline and oil, plus proper insurance, and Hertz cars are new Powerglide Chevrolets or other fine makes. Start now! Write today for details and reservation forms Hertz Rent A Car, 218 So. Wabash Avenue, Chicago 4, Ill. . . . . .More people by far . . . use . . . . . . . . . . HERTZ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rent a car . . . . . Enjoy! Tom
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Holden's Mild on this rather chilly Mid-Mo Encore afternoon, please RUTH.
LARS Sorry you are still having probs with the Forum. Thanks for the photo and technical data on the GG1s.I guess they must have been among ,if not, the first 100 mph electrics. the Pennsy red or green certainly suited these impressive locos.
It looks as though Ladies night should be a winner.
ERIC Yes it is strange that the Great Western introduced those ancient looking locos in 1936, although they were rebuilds, at a time when the A4 and Coronation Pacifics were about to be introduced and indeed the GG1s were being built. In fact the lead loco City of Truro had already been withdrawn an in a museum before #9017 appeared.
MIKE Great links again, with a St Louis theme, and the Liberty Bell on a railroad car. In the pics of Providence the station looks about on the site of the present day station although I though the station was moved perhaps CM3 can help. I could not get the link to the Mars, I will try again later.
ROB Thanks for the beer.I,m afraid I CANNOT agree with you that it is" useless non train stuff" I find reading about The Glengary Light Infantry and Canadian( and US) history very interesting, and thanks with the reenactments in keeping the history alive.
Good Encores on the Canadian and WP electrification.I think Britain should have gone in for all main line electrification in the Modenisation plan of 1955 instead of those un-proven diesels, although even now there is talk of de-electrifying the East Coast Main Line. Unbelieveable.
Another Our Place coincidence. My Steam magazine arrived and the editorial was about, "Getting more young people involved in railway preservation,", just as we have been discussing.
TOM I think I will stay out of the 1812 discussion, I will just say that in 1776 we had a King who was nutty at the time, it could have been different if we had Good Queen Bess still.
It will be a shame if the Union Station in St Louis loses its tracks. I will always have a good memory of the tracks in the station as on my first visit over here we stayed there. I took a walk outside the station and found the F Units and the cars, which were a total surprise. as it was the turn of the year 2000/2001 the area was covered in fairly deep snow, it was magic.
Thanks for the Budd/BlueBird Encore..
Truro is the County Town of Cornwall. If you do get to England and travel to Penzance there is a good view of the town from the train as the railway is on an embankment there overlooking the town.
For an encore I have got something WEST COAST DAVE posted on page 366 on turbines on UP, TOM had a couple of pics on page365 but I could not get them to copy
UP operated several classes of turbines, they began arriving in 1951, GE had a demo the #51 operating in 1948, UP took a liking to it, but did not need a cab on both ends, UP ordered a dozen and specified that unused cab space be used for fuel storage, the outside walkways gave name to this class as Veranda's additionally they had the ability to live on a grade of diesel fuel approaching crude oil, very cheap in those days. Noise was the overall objection and the necessity to shut the plant down when not in operation, UP/GE installed 300hp diesel engines for standby power and oil line heaters,, thus eliminating the many opportunities to surprise those unaware of of the finer points of turning over a dead cold turbine with the resulting explosion when not done correctly or in proper sequence. They possed a BB+BB wheel arraignment, thus they tracked and rode very well, continual upgrades netted 5000 to 6000hp. Early on auxiliary fuel tenders were provided and connections for operation with diesels was provided for. On districts with tunnels, it was forbidden to double head these untis, the lead unit would consume all the available oxygen and starve the second, second reason being a single unit was capable of hauling the standard tonnage of the time and could do so with authority. The next group arrived from GE in 1959, they were light years ahead of the Verandas, most of which had been returned to GE for parts salvage and inclusion into the new design, with a CC wheel arraignment and 7000hp on tap in a massive three unit set, over fifty were delivered by 1962, these proved extremely reliable and could operate in MU with any diesel in the fleet or each other and served until 1971, some remained in storage into 1973.
That was weird. I copied Dave'sTurbine post but could not add any more , at least I was able to send it. Anyway I just wanted to say I hope DAVE you don,t mind me "borrowing" your post, and I caught your last two posts TOM I will look at the link now.
Well RUTH allow me to get a round in.
Pete.
Well good evening Officers,non-coms & other ranks-please excuse the absense but I have been out on bayonet training exercises with the 13th Llangwm Foot ( & mouth ) -a civilian militia feared throughout the principality-mostly by the livestock............
Delighted to see from recent postings that we have such a broad base of common interests -rail,air,sea--perhaps just a common fondness for days gone by......
Leon-Pewter tankards of foaming ale for the gentlemen please and delicate measures of port or sherry wine for the ladies (of officers) wives (of non-coms ) & womenfolk ( of other ranks ) if you would be so kind.
Bar ChandlerROB-Passed out & non-functional eh-? --Welcome to MY world........can you play the guitar at all ??--enjoyed the re-enactment shots - A couple of pals of mine in the bike club I used to ride with were big in the Sealed Knot-( a Brit civil war r/e group) until it was realised that they were going for it for real and putting people in hospital on a regular basis after which their presence was deemed superfluous-tales for another night as the Boss would say. Won`t dwell on the rugby beyond saying that your guys took first blood and played their hearts out ---fair play -one can ask no more
DL-Will do my best with the boat trains within my own rules ( has to come from my own library-tapping the keys removes the challenge for me-I guess I`m a librarian trapped in a decadent musicians body........) ,that said,I enjoyed the Paxman site with the Fell beast-looks like a class 37 modelled by an Absinthe drinker -the loco above it (10800) has the look of an ALCO RS11 with Brit drawgear-The gas turbine stuff most interesting-also recollections of the APT--nice one mate
TOM-as noted above,will see what I can find for the boat trains-those model soldiers are absolute beauts-what scale are they in ??? -the fine detail work is incredible,If they are yours then can I commission you to paint some engines for me.........? Also enjoyed the latest instalment of "Bridges to Babylon" (spot a repeating theme here ..?) -Had heard of Caisson disease but had no idea where the phrase came from-another gap filled That Hertz `incentive` advert is a worrying sign--what price integrity,eh...?
CM3-As you know,there is only one Horse artillery regiment which owns the freedom to exercise in Mentor County-and they are in support of the Mentor Fusiliers,the only regiment to successfully take the field for both sides during every major conflict on both sides of the border during the last 300 years--A fact reflected in their strangely complex standard............
LARS-Hello dear boy,have to confess,I take no interest in the `ratings` thing,indeed,I don`t even know how it works-why waste valuable breath on trivia is my take.........--Enjoyed the GG1 stuff-ugly brutes,but a class act nonetheless,and far better looking in tuscan or brunswick than that horrible blue........Enjoy the family weekend mate and thanks for keeping the flag flying.......
PETE-believe DL has covered the R.H.D.R school train,-was the railtour you took up the Burry Port & Gwedreath Valley line ?? -Can`t remember the names of the collieries up there but it used to cross the G.W.R South Wales main line at Llannelli and was worked by class 37`s in it`s latter days -also Drewry 03 shunters..............LOVED the double framer pix-notice the slight difference in colour between the two engines..........and what a mixed bag of coaches and all under a sunny Sussex sky-can`t beat it
MIKE-Our steady frame of reference in a changing world-here`s a non-railway one to test you -----"our new hit single hit the charts today with a bullet (CLANG) with a bullet (CLANG) with a bullet(CLANG)-thats right.........".(Clue:-recorded live at the Fillmore East in 1969/70)-have fun...
O.K-I`m out to the galley and burn some steaks and kick the staff around a bit-any requests for sunday pix ?--will try and cover where I can.
JAMES-sorry if this has all turned a bit weird-sometimes it`that sort of thread-no holds barred............
ERIC-Glad you have the TAG 150 stuff to hand-there`s some cracking shots-although I seem to remember some from your own camera from that event...........
Right,time for work,see you all tomorrow,take care
nick
G-day Tom and all present.
She's a bit late so I think I will skip the drinks for me tonight but I will leave some money in the jar for tomorrow mornings early risers to use!
Tom- That was bridge was certainly interesting. Hope to get some more info and pics from you soon. I saw Lars got a little info on the GG1. It was a very nice electric and would have been even cooler to see it running in person. (Even though the only thing you would here from it would be it's traction motor cooling fans.)
Mike- Thanks for the World War ll article. Thats was a nice add. It was cool to think that when he come home he would be greeted by the Milwaukee. Gos to show the Milwaukee supported the war. Thank you.
Pete- Kansas City sounds like my kind of city to see some trains! The Gas turbines would have been cool to see. We had a Gas turbines but they died out quite the years back. The final turbine, out of three different turbines made, created 8500 horsepower. They belonged to the Union Pacific. I have a video on them and it shows one being started up. Now if you have ever seen a fire ball, it certainly doesn't compare to a turbine starting up!!!! The camera pans back and the flame must be shooting 30 or so feet into the air. It is one weird sight to behold. This didn't happen all the time. Once in a while you would see it.
Eric- Yes sir. They can be hard, especially when you're trying to tell apart an F3 to and F5. But I will still try and if I do get it wrong again (of course it will happen) I know I will have someone here that can correct me.
Rob- Those pictures of the battle (Recapture of Fort George) were really cool. I would have liked to been there for that. What I can't understand is how those guys to could just march up like that, in rows, shoot and get shot at like that. It boggles my mind. I don't think I could do that. BTW: Yes sir. The Little Joe article is coming. Issue three of the Milwaukee Road news is coming!
Nick- Doesn't matter if it turns a little weird now and then. Just how thing go. I can live with it, and keep on posting and that's all that matters.
Milwaukee road News issue 3 will be posted tomorrow. This time....It's on the Little Joe. The Russian made electric.
Happy railroading
James
Good evening Leon. I see that you saved a prime piece of cow for me Hows about a Keith's to wash it all down with oh and here's a bit more to cover a 'nother' for the late stragglers.
Tom-Good to read the Hertz article again to bad the VIA station in Brantford didn't have an outlet for Ted to use on his return trip to TOP last May though. Interesting URL again kinda shows that both sides of the boarder teach what they want ( route for the home side and all that ) Oh well makes for good fireside disscussions. Oh and mention to the mananger to stop paying me in peso's then Vito won't have to get his knickers in a knot
Pete-Nice to hear that there are other history buffs out and about, just erie about that article though. I wonder if they are reading our thread and comming up with topics If they are then wee are all definatly on the right track over here
Nick-The only difference I suppose is in my case it was too much work not enough sleep ( happens this time of year )Mind you in my twenties .... well lets just say we didn't pass u too amny taverns ( by the tracks or otherwise ) I don't play guitar but I do play the sax ( not well but it does make noise )Your re-enactor friends sound like some of the US Civil War type ones ( bit to much boom in the cannons once in a while ) Up hear things are very well controlled. The Brown Bess's we have are real in that if you wished to they could fire a live musket ball.We use half charges in the cartridges 1/8th once as opposed to a live warshot.More funky steam would be my requests for pictures tomorrow
Mike-Interesting urls as always. Loved the trolley line on the eads bridge ( go figure )
James-Good to hear about the Lil Joe article volume three should be a beaut tomorrow. One thinfg about 18th and 19th century warfare. The weapons of the day the muskets were very inaccurate. No rifling in the barrells therefore quantity of fire was more important than accuracy.A muskets effective range was 60 to 100 yards. At the max 100 yards a brown bess ( British pattern ) could penetrate the wool coat and leave a nasty hole remembering that a brown bess mosket ball was a quarter inch in diamater of soft lead. At 60 yards they would be deadly a ball hitting a joint would tend to crush the bones.The British practice was a regimental fire system standard line regiment was approx 800 men two ranks 400 in line. Front line would fire one volley than the back would after that they would fire by platoons approx 50 men at a time. Since the musket had no rifling each musket ball would go up down or off to the side never a straight line tragectory. So the volly firing ment that every single British regimmnet would throw out fire similar to a big massive shotgun.All Britsh regimnets were trained to stay in line and fire no less than three rounds a minute, most in fact could do four or five and incredible amount of fire when one conciders it's a muzzle loaded weapon !No other army ever truly matched this level of expertise on a consistant basis. When I was more active in the re-enactment gig I had myself to at least a three round a minute rate better if the weather was dry ( wet + black powder is a bad thing )here I am prattling along again oh well. Now one other side note the British light infantry regements ( The canadian Glengarry's for instance ) and the 95th reg and the 60th ( also known as the Royal American Rifles ) War the green and balck uniforms and were equiped with the Baker rifle, this was a rifled version of the brown bess, much more accurate a good riflemen could accuratly hit and kill a target at a good 4-500 yards. The Baker's used the same amunition as the brown bess but the cartirdges were leather instead of paper and ther was seven rifled grooves on the inside of the barrel. Still a muzzle loader and due to the rifling were slower to load at best three shots a minute. The rifle regimnets did not generally fight in the line formation, they moved out in front of the main lines and scirmished with the enemy light tropps between the lines , fought in pairs one man fired and covered while his partner reloaded, their main targets were the officers and sgt's in the enemies lines.
Lets see early sunday so lets put out a couple early pix to get us rolling. I'll be out alot tomorow Heather's Dad's 70th is tomorrow.
VIA train 79 in Brantford sporting some of the fine Budd cars.
Via train 93 at Brantford
VIA train 94 sporting the Home hardware painted F40 at Bayview Junction
VIA train 79 at Brantford with the CBC anniversary F40 in the lead.
Just a couple VIA shots to get everyone into passenger train mood.
Enjoy Rob
Good morning Tom and crew! I see that Rob beat me in this A.M., but left a coffee roll for me. Nice VIA shots sir! Looks like I'm back to trying to catch-up on reading here (as usual), but while my bride was at work yesterday, I snuck out to attend an open house at the Valley Model Railroaders building in South Elgin. I've been by it many a time and considered joining the club just as many times. Here’s a little about the location before I share some pictures:
From Third Rail to Bike TrailA short history written by Jeffrey S. Obarek
Next time you enjoy the Illinois Prairie Path let your mind think of another time in our not so distant past. This path that we use for riding our bikes and for walking was the domain of the Chicago Aurora and Elgin Railway. Clintonville Station is located along the Elgin branch which is on the north part of the wishbone extending from Wheaton. The southern part of the wishbone runs from Wheaton to Aurora. The mainline ran east from Wheaton to Wells Street Terminal in downtown Chicago. Part of this run went into the city via the Garfield Park elevated line. In September of 1953 the railroad's new east end terminal was located at Des Plaines Ave. in Forest Park. At Forest Park riders transferred to CTA rapid transit cars for the trip into Chicago. The trains of this high speed interurban line first incorporated as the Aurora Elgin and Chicago in 1902 began operating past this building on May 29,1903. The name of the railway was changed to the Chicago Aurora & Elgin Railroad under the reorganization of 1925.
Clintonville Substation was built in 1902 and put into service as a power distribution center to convert AC power to 600 volt DC needed to operate the trains which received this electric current via a third rail. Chicago Transit Authority "L" trains use this same electrical pick-up system to power their trains today. Electric power converted at this facility was also sold to several of the electric railroads in the area such as the Fox River Electric and the Elgin & Belvedere. Located on a lot south of the station was a small bungalow which served as the home for the station operator, who was responsible for making out train orders and maintaining the substation. A portion of the substation also served as a passenger waiting room from May of 1903 to the end of passenger service on July 3,1957. The electric generating equipment was located in the area now occupied by the club layout. The lower level of the building also housed electrical equipment. The passenger waiting area was located along the south wall and the doors onto the boarding platform were located on the east wall in the area now occupied by the club office. In 1949 the electrical generating equipment was relocated from Clintonville to a new facility in downtown Elgin along the CA&E right of way near the terminal at Chicago Ave. This left much of the main floor vacant. The Valley Model Railroaders moved into this building in 1953 leasing from the CA&E the portion which once housed the power generating equipment. Installation and enlarging of the layout that was started in 1949 at a smaller location in Elgin continued at Clintonville.
The model railroaders shared Clintonville Station with CA&E passengers until the 1957 passenger service abandonment. Freight trains continued to rumble past powered by electric locomotives until June of 1959 when all rail service was suspended. At that time all CA&E properties and assets where placed under the management of the Aurora Corporation of Illinois. The model railroaders paid the rent to this corporation until the station was placed under control of the Kane County Forest Preserve District sometime during the 1960’s. Part of our lease agreement with the forest preserve district is maintaining the building and payment of the utility bills. Look around and you will be able to see where the large windows were located. These were bricked in during the 1950's as a security measure.
1999 saw dramatic change within the walls of the station. The old layout was dismantled and the interior was painted by the club members to match the last exterior paint scheme applied to the CA&E cars in the early 1950’s. The club also installed new light fixtures and a drop ceiling at this time. By 2000 much of the new bench work was installed and the track and scenery was started. So we enter the 21st century and 100 years of history has passed into our personal and collective memories. And the next time you find yourself passing this old station platform let your minds eye wander and listen for the next train along the path going back.
So that’s the history of the station, and how it became the home for the Valley Model Railroaders. Now, let’s look inside!
A young boy's dog died. In order to try to console him, a preacher said, "Don't worry. Your dog is now with God."The boy said, "Why would God want a dead dog?"
As you can imagine, it's difficult to photograph these layouts, and there were areas I couldn't get to because they were restricted to members only. There are 30 members in the club, and by the way, this spot could be a place we visit in 2008 if you wish. Two nights a week, the club opens its doors and allows the public to run the layout (for a donation).
See the engine house to the left of the roundhouse? A member lifted the roof so I could get shots of the interior. This was one of the original scratch-built buildings, and unfortunately, mice sleep in it.
The center layout has three levels
View all my pix at:
http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/Barndad/sunday%20photos/?start=0
View the club website at:
www.trainweb.org/vmrr
Recently an old Indian chief sat in his hut on the reservation, smoking a Ceremonial pipe and eyeing two U.S. Government officials sent by the President to interview him. "Chief Two Eagles" asked one official, "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done." The Chief nodded in agreement. The official continued, "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?" The Chief stared at the government officials for over a minute and then calmly replied . "When white man found the land, Indians were running it. No taxes, No debt, Plenty buffalo, Plenty beaver, Women did all the work, Medicine man free, Indian man spent all day hunting and fishing, All night making love." Then the chief leaned back and smiled . "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."
Sunday morning and it’s breakfast – lunch – brunch ‘til 2 PM here at the Tavern by the Tracks. Of course the bar is CLOSED ‘til tomorrow a 6 AM!
This is our Sunday Photo Posting Day! which has already begun, thanx to Rob ‘n Doug!
Acknowledgments to bring us up to date:
Pete at 3:34 & 3:45 PM yesterday: Good to see ya on a Saturday and appreciate the ENCORE! Doubt seriously that West Coast S Dave will ever see it! He’s long goooooooone and now a fixure in the “Legion of the Lost” alongside some other notables such as passengerfan Al, Theodorebear Ted and so forth.
Only suggestion I can offer regarding those Pix of mine that you had difficulty using is to ensure that when you transfer them – put the img /img in brackets BEFORE you paste in the URL. Confused Don’t be – it’s just one of those oddities of these new Forums that tends to waste our time, drive us to distraction (rather than drink! <grin>) and otherwise tick us off!
Nick at 7:19 PM yesterday: A rare treat indeed – figured you’d be out performing on and off the stage this weekend! Good to see ya with some fine contributions to our group.
Those models are from http://www.sierratoysoldier.com/ and are hardly mine! That’s one aspect of hobbying that I’m not into. Actually, my interests lie ONLY with model railroading when it comes to pissing away my time. <grin> A close 2nd would be spending far too much time at this keyboard. <right!>
Back to the model soldiers – I can recall seeing some truly elaborate set ups in the upscale stores in Manhattan way back when I was a kid. Those remembrances included wall-to-wall window displays of entire battlefields. Amazing – and of course the cost would gag a healthy maggot, I should think. Looks like a great hobby – but there IS a limit to the way the dwindling fortunes of yours truly get spent.
Something from the Ether: Caisson disease: A condition occurring as a result of exposure to a rapid fall in ambient pressure. Gases, nitrogen in particular, come out of solution and form bubbles in body fluid and blood. These gas bubbles accumulate in joint spaces and the peripheral circulation impairing tissue oxygenation causing disorientation, severe pain, and potentially death.
Caisson disease: A condition occurring as a result of exposure to a rapid fall in ambient pressure. Gases, nitrogen in particular, come out of solution and form bubbles in body fluid and blood. These gas bubbles accumulate in joint spaces and the peripheral circulation impairing tissue oxygenation causing disorientation, severe pain, and potentially death.
Ed-u-mah-ka-shun ‘r us!
In the butting in department: I think what Lars and others have been driving at is precisely what you have said. We have no interest in the ratings system – so why have it It becomes a nagging issue when one looks at these Threads to see see that there are obvious “blemishes” showing each time we log into the Forum. Why The guys who caused the crap apparently have had their IPOs blocked – so why then do the “blems” live on I can see your point of view – however, all of us CAN make a difference by letting the Forums Manager know how we feel. Get rid of the blasted ratings entirely.
James at 10:17 PM yesterday: We’ll be looking for your Little Joe feature today.
Rob at 12:21 & 12:31 AM today: As always, great to see ya again (even though you are supposed to be working when we have food service!)
Paid in Pesos sounds just about right to me – sorry, but you’ll have to take this up with the Manager – Senor Lars, mi amigo! <grin>
You do know that Wikipedia is a Euro-based outfit, eh I think they present some pretty decent and unbiased st
Even though the bar at "Our" Place is
CLOSED on Sundays -
We do observe Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Now Playing at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre!
. . . . Sunday, November 19th thru 25th: 633 Squadron (1964) Starring: Cliff Robertson, George Chakiris, Maria Perschy & Harry Andrews - and – The Sea Wolves (1981) Starring: Gregory Peck, David Niven, Roger Moore & Trevor Howard. SHORT: The Three Stooges - Wee Wee Monsieur (1938).
633 Squadron (1964)
PLOT SUMMARY: An RAF squadron is assigned to knock out a German rocket fuel factory in Norway,, which is part of the Nazi effort to launch rockets on England during D-day, by flying up a well-defended fjord at low level. 633 Squadron has enjoyed an unqualified string of successes. Their nearly impossible mission is further complicated by a German air raid, the difficult approach to the target and the capture and torture of the underground leader who is assisting the squadron.
An RAF squadron is assigned to knock out a German rocket fuel factory in Norway,, which is part of the Nazi effort to launch rockets on England during D-day, by flying up a well-defended fjord at low level. 633 Squadron has enjoyed an unqualified string of successes. Their nearly impossible mission is further complicated by a German air raid, the difficult approach to the target and the capture and torture of the underground leader who is assisting the squadron.
from: amazon.com
The Sea Wolves (1981)PLOT SUMMARY: This true story follows the exploits of a top secret British military mission to destroy Nazi radio ships in a neutral harbor during WWII. The daring plan is led by British Intelligence officers Col. Lewis Pugh (Gregory Peck) and Capt. Gavin Stewart (Roger Moore). Since the ships are in neutral territory the British Military command, while encouraging the scheme, must deny any knowledge of it if it fails. Pugh & Stewart enlist the aid of retired officer Col. Bill Grice (David Niven) & some of his former soldiers. On the pretext of being on a fishing expedition, these seemingly drunken old men in civilian clothing must board & destroy 3 Nazi ships, whose radio transmissions have resulted in Nazi submarines sinking allied ships. While Stewart arranges a diversion on shore, Pugh & Grice carry out the dangerous raid on and destruction of the Nazi ships.
This true story follows the exploits of a top secret British military mission to destroy Nazi radio ships in a neutral harbor during WWII. The daring plan is led by British Intelligence officers Col. Lewis Pugh (Gregory Peck) and Capt. Gavin Stewart (Roger Moore). Since the ships are in neutral territory the British Military command, while encouraging the scheme, must deny any knowledge of it if it fails. Pugh & Stewart enlist the aid of retired officer Col. Bill Grice (David Niven) & some of his former soldiers. On the pretext of being on a fishing expedition, these seemingly drunken old men in civilian clothing must board & destroy 3 Nazi ships, whose radio transmissions have resulted in Nazi submarines sinking allied ships. While Stewart arranges a diversion on shore, Pugh & Grice carry out the dangerous raid on and destruction of the Nazi ships.
from: imdb.com
SHORT: Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)PLOT SUMMARY: Featuring Moe, Larry & Curly The Stooges are artists living in Paris and owe many months back rent. They hope they sell a painting to pay off their debt. When their landlord threatens to kill them, they escape and hope to join the American Legion and go home. They accidentally join the French Foreign Legion. Their captain is kidnapped and they disguise as Santa Clauses to rescue him.
The Stooges are artists living in Paris and owe many months back rent. They hope they sell a painting to pay off their debt. When their landlord threatens to kill them, they escape and hope to join the American Legion and go home. They accidentally join the French Foreign Legion. Their captain is kidnapped and they disguise as Santa Clauses to rescue him.
from: threestooges.net
Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers waiting for the bar to open!
Nice movie selections for the week! Haven't seen either, or at least I don't recall viewing them. Sound like good entertainment. Think I'll start off with The Sea Wolves!
Hey Nick - to each his own. The ratings system bothers some of us and has no effect on others. So be it. I just don't care for the unwillingness of Kalmbach to remove those reminders from our most-negative-now-banned detractors living on and on and on. That's the only point as far as I'm concerned.
Good to see Doug back, if not for keeps, at least for awhile on Sunday. Makes it feel a bit like old times, huh Great model railroad layout and one that obviously took a great deal of time, effort and expense to put together. One of these days . . .
So, are we now fighting the War of 1812 here at the bar Of course Tom and I attended the same public school system in NYC, just a year or two apart. But, from what I've read and recall, the war was about Great Britain, not so much the land above the 49th. Although, yes, there were those who wanted to take the fight up there to knock off the British throughout north America. I never recall being taught anything regarding a war with Canada, as such. All news to me. I think that wikipedia Url pretty much sums it up quite nicely. Educational at that. RIP - it's over; kinda like the 2006 baseball season. Cards won - Mets didn't. The War of 1812 - US won, GB didn't.
Nice Via Rail reruns from Rob!
Let me end this nonsense with my weekly slate of bookcovers!
Enjoy the day one and all . . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
Just about time to slip this in the mail slot before the sun goes down.
NICK hopefully my BR rail atlas will be arriving here soon and I will be able to give you some details on the South Wales Colliery lines I visited.
ROB Enjoyed the details on the old smooth bore and rifled muzzle loading muskets and the VIA pics.
DOUG What a great location for a railroad model layout, in the old sub-staion at ClintonvilleGreat pics and link of the layout, the roundhouse is great, shame about the mice. It would be another great place to visit in 2008 indeed..
JAMES that sounds a great video of the UP gas turbines. Looking forward to the Milwaukee news #3.
LARS The 1812 war looks more like a score draw to me( British soccer term). Anyway thanks for another great set of book covers.
TOM Another week of great films at the Emporium this week. I think the theme music on 633 Squadron was one of the best film scores ever..
NOW for Alan's pics.
loco # 99.582 on the Schonheide to Stutzengrun narrow gauge line
At the engine shed at Chemitz after the cavelcade .
The second pic is of a fireless loco. I believe they were knoen by a different name in N. America
This narrow gauge loco was giving rides behind the engine shed.
Hope you enjoy these Pete.
Closed on Sundays -
G'day Gents!
Nice work from Lars today and alway enjoy those book cover submissions!
Here's something a bit different for the gang - railroad maps!
B&O from 1876
PRR from 1893
NYC in 1929
NYNH&H in the 1950s
AT&SF (vintage)
NP early 1900s
Enjoy!
G-day Tom and all present!
Well! You guys have been waiting and here it is.
Issue 3
Milwaukee Road News
The Famous Little Joe!
The little Joe as you all know was built for the Russains in 1946, built by General electric. Plans were given to build the loco and were completed in 1946. It was known as the Little Joe Stalin locomotive but was shortened to Little Joe. After the Cold war in 1945 and 46, Russia had become financially unfit with its economy shaken by WWll and were not able to purchase the 20 big locomotives. Plus the US banned all shipments to the Soviet Union and the orders were cancelled. So the locomotives sat in storage for a few years. It wasn't untill in 1949 and 1950 that the locomotive came up for sale. Very soon after the sale sign went up, the Milwaukee road, Chicago South Shore and South bend, and the Brazilian Palista railway, inquired on them! 12 were sold to the Milwaukee, 3 to the South shore and the remaining to the Palista railway. All were purchased in 1950.
These locos were classified as EF-4s. very simular to the clssification of the Box cabs, EF1, EF2, EF3 and EF5.
The locomotive took in 3000 volts DC electricity and put out 5500 horsepower. It was found through studies that the locomotive at times would beable to put out more than 8000 horsepower when at a starting force. Tractive effort was measured around 75,700 thousand pounds per square inch and would get a starting tractive effort of over 100,000 pounds psi. The locomotive rode a set of trucks with a 2-D-D-2 wheel arrangment. The two D trucks had 8 GE 750 traction motors that all took in 3000 volts DC. The locomotive weighed in at almost 250 tons. The locomotives numbers were E70-E81. E20-E21 were the passenger locos.
The twelve locos the milwaukee had were all used for frieght service at a given time. Two of them spent half there life taking on passenger trains. These were classified as EP-4s. These locomotives were equiped with steam generators and served the passenger service for a good 8 or so years. The passenger locos were numbered E20 and E21. The rear end controls (which ever end was chosen) were taken out to accommodate for the steam generator. The other feature that was presented with the passenger locomotive were its roller bearing trucks. This was for faster movements. The journals would overheat after a certain amount of time so the roller bearing was installed for this purpose.
This locomotive was used to replace the aging Boxcab with freight service. The box cab was later used for helper service, switching, and maintanence away trains. At the end of the elctrification era, the trains would usually have a 3 SD40-2s and a Little joe leading. The joes served a full 23 years before being retired and scrapped. The only serviving Milwaukee road Little joe is located out in Deer Lodge Monatana, #E70. A Chicago and South Shore and South bend Little joe has been restored up to running condition and is curtainly located at the Illinois railway museum in Illinois.
To run one of these living artifacts would have been a true treat. For me, if the Little joe in Illinois is truley operational, then someday, I am going to have to run that locomotive. There's no doubt about it. These locomotives will be remembered. Even though there is almost no trace of them running.
If there are any questions, or more info needed, just let me know.
Gents-with the permission of the house,I will make todays submission tomorrow-switched on the machine some hours ago but got caught up flirting with a sweet young thing of my aquaintance somewhere in N.Dakota (blame msn messenger and myspace........) have spent all day taking care of small demon Hannah`s b/day party -it`s now the wrong side of 2am and to be brutally honest I`m knackered -see you all tomorrow,take care now
Good morning Tom and friends! I’ll have two light breakfasts please, and leave a stack of quarters for later use. Pretty good picture day yesterday, I think. Got some new films for the Emporium thanks to Tom, new books to read from Lars (after I learn to read), really great pix from Alan, courtesy of Pete, Maps from Tom, and Milwaukee pix from James! Now for some particulars. I found a lot of my railroad material Tom, but there’s more to find …. I know. Gonna need another bookcase for sure. Sure appreciate the warm welcoming words Lars. It warms the heart of this unworthy one. Glad you liked the Valley Model Railroader stuff Pete. Guess maybe it will be added to the places we need to visit in 2008. Sure got some nice steam pix from Alan. I sure wish even one of our steam engines at the IRM would produce some steam. I’m betting that we do in 2008. Map pix are always interesting Tom. The thing I like best is that Chicago seems to almost always be in the picture. I searched my IRM pix for your engine James, and didn’t find it. Now I’ll be on the lookout for it the next time I go! And now….
Here’s the start of a story about the Great Western, from Sep. 1953 Railroad Magazine:
It was a cold winter day in Iowa as a long freight whistled for a crossing where an automobile had halted to let the approaching train go by. At the wheel was a Hawkeye lad with some visitors from the East. The outlanders asked the driver the name of the railroad, and he perfunctorily replied “Chicago Great Western.” They had never heard of that road and showed little interest. Presently the diesel locomotive thundered by – one unit, a second, a third, a fourth … Still the Easteners, used to seeing four-unit engines on the Pennsy and the New York Central, were unconcerned. But they rubbed their eyes in amazement when a fifth unit groaned by, then a sixth and a seventh. They had never seen anything like that. They started to count the cars, but after getting up to 150 they gave up.
Obviously a seven-unit diesel packing 10,500 hp. Is a rare sight anywhere. But five- and six-unit jobs are not uncommon, and long mainline freights are the rule, not the exception. They are just some of the distinguishing characteristics of this little-known 1400-mile railroad in the Midwest. Others would include radio-communication in cabs and cabooses and between trains and stations, modernized yards, new stations and complete dieselization of motive power. Small wonder on-line people refer to it as “amazing” Great Western.
Indeed, the whole history of the railroad is fraught with unusual and strong-willed men, men who pioneered in new developments such as the operation of rail-motor cars, train-plane coordination, modern shop facilities, truck-trailer hauling on flatcars, and widespread use of diesel power. Before going into the CGW’s colorful and checkered history, however, let us continue with the road as it is today. The Chicago Great Western is one of the so-called Granger roads, a Johnny-come-lately, serving Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri and to a very limited extent, Kansas and Nebraska, In nearly every other case well-entrenched trunk lines proceeded it in hotly competitive regions of the Midwest. Actually, however, its main lines compare favorably in regard to mileage.
The CGW has the shortest trackage between St. Paul and Omaha, the second shortest between the Twin Cities and Kansas City, and the third between the Twin Cities and Chicago. But is does not boast of CTC, and in most of its important metropolitan centers the road uses the tracks of other carriers. This, coupled with the fact that its territory is served by many larger and wealthier roads, makes the Corn Belt Route, as it was formerly called, vulnerable to competition. Take for example, between Chicago and the Twin Cities. There are four other roads competing for freight from the Windy City to Minneapolis-St. Paul. There is also a joint route via Albert Lea, Minnesota, making a fifth. In spite of this, CGW is rendering a good account of itself. While it may never be in the blue chip class, the road is probably in better financial shape than it has ever been. Physically, its main lines are in good condition, although some of its branches are somewhat run down. These, however, are being rehabilitated as time and finances permit.
Today the CGW is almost exclusively a freight road. Only the hearty, dyed-in-the-wool railfan would ever attempt to go from Chicago to the Twin Cities by this carrier. To begin with, the trains are local, all-coach night runs. On top of this there is a two hour layover at Oelwein, Ia., around midnight, no matter which direction you may be going. From the Twin Cities to Omaha, or to Kansas City, the service is without change; but it’s still a tedious night coach ride even if the cars are air-conditioned and the seats have antimacassars. All branch lines are entirely given over to freight.
(to be continued…)
A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a restaurant opened by a fellow cannibal. Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu...
Broiled Missionary: $ 10.00 Fried Explorer: $ 15.00 Baked Politician: $ 100.00
The cannibal called the waiter over and asked, "Why such a price difference for the politician?"
The waiter replied, "Have you ever tried to clean one?"
It’s Monday, but only a 3-day work week for some, and perhaps a week off for others! Time for a cuppa Joe, pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery case and maybe a <light> or <traditional> breakfast to start the day.
My plans for the week are to go slow and lay low as we get closer to U.S. Thanksgiving and the ensuring weekend! In other words, I’m gonna be rather scarce – I’ll make a Post or two, but other than that, it’s up to those of you. We’ll observe our “regular” hours though, so not to worry, the Tavern by the Tracks will be here for ya!
Good to see the continuation of our Sunday Photo Posting Day! as several of you provided some enjoyable views!
Looks like Pete and I provided Posts rather close to one another – so consider yourself acknowledged! And a to Nick’s lil’ one – Hannah!
We viewed a couple of new DVDs this weekend – "Buster (1988) and “The Great Train Robbery (1979)” (featured recently at the Emporium Theatre). Both good flicks, but our choice was with the latter. Some outstanding shots of the fast moving train (in Ireland) and very entertaining throughout. “Buster’ was – in a word – “different.” Thought the story line was a bit protracted. Hardly enough train stuff! Worth having these productions in our rather vast library. And yes, Pete, the score from 633 Squadron was entertaining – we viewed that one Friday nite as a matter of fact! Some train shots in it as well . . .
In the “Some People Will Never Get It (SPWNGI) department,” I see we’re still unable to get everyone on board when it comes to INCLUSIVE Posts and acknowledgments of the other guy and understanding the routine and hours of the bar. So, here’s the deal: NO RECOGNITION FROM ME TO THOSE WHO FAIL TO RECOGNIZE OTHERS. That’s ALWAYS been the policy and unfortunately, it has to be enforced. Anyone having problems with this – send me an Email – let’s keep the excuses and the like out of the bar.
Thanx for kicking off the morning for us, Doug – hopefully this return will be more on the regular side than not. The Great Western tale is a good start for our week! You do know we featured the CGW not that long ago, eh
Tomorrow’s Theme for the Day is the Pullman Company – watch for it!
Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle!
Remember: Ruth comes in at 9 AM and remains behind the bar ‘til Leon takes over at 5 PM!
Hello Tom and greetings to all in.
I’ll take a pint of Harvey’s Best.
Tom, first of all just to pick up on your point, my uncle was trained in Canada at Moosejaw – but I’m not sure exactly what the training base there was like (that was back in 1942 – 43 I think). No doubt he spent training time at other places after the basics were covered. I guess we sent trainee RAF pilots over there so they could learn the ropes (as you sea goers would say) in a relatively risk free environment (enemy aircraft wise).
Lars – nice stuff on the GG1 – I’ve always loved the design but knew little about the history of the type so I enjoyed reading that. James – same comment to you re those Little Joes – never knew any of that stuff about Russia connection – fascinating.
Rob – nice to read your Canadian History notes – interesting stuff. Whilst Tom’s busy changing the barrel I’ve got to salute you on the Tea front – yep – you know what you’re doing no doubt about it – actually I’m reasonably relaxed about the bags vs the loose stuff (even though you ARE correct in your comments about this) – my problem with the North American approach is this: You Gotta BOIL the water when it meets the leaves – a cup of hot water is not what it takes.
Mike – thanks for those great pics of the 1950s Talgos – I had no idea they had such a long history – very impressive – well done for digging those images out.
Eric – thanks for your comments about the Gas Turbines.
Pete – yes, the AC Loco Group owns a fleet of the early electric designs – and in fact I’ve just sent them a small payment as a donation as they have an appeal to save the unique Class 89 design which GNER have put up for sale. I figured no point in moaning about designs not being preserved if you don’t put your money where your mouth is in this generation, if you can afford to do so from time to time.
http://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/
Thanks also for the GT3 stuff (did not realise GT1 & GT2 were the other WR designs either) – I’ve always liked the lines of that one, as you say styling clearly borrows from the steam engine what with a tender and the motion linkage. I recall reading stories that the heat output was so severe there were instances of it burning the wooden decking of foot bridges if it parked below them for any length of time!
As mentioned elsewhere – I wonder why widespread electrification was not a facet of the 1955 UK BR modernisation plan? Would have made a lot of sense. Maybe diesel was seen as quicker and cheaper?
Incidentally Pete – I’ve checked Rob Foxon’s schedule of Archive Railway Films: he is in Euston 6th Dec then various other places inc Rugby 21st Feb 2007, 19.30hrs, The Benn Hall, Newbold Road. He also does Kettering, Wellingborough and certain other Leicestershire dates (often the same film show is toured to a few different places, then he does a new show – so he probably does 4 or 5 totally different shows per year. I’m going to the Newark one on 30th Nov.) He was last in Rugby 18th Oct – an SAE to TUA Films, 17 Kingsway Leicester LE3 2JL results in a printed programme. Just in case any of this of use to your Rugby based friends.
Nick – good to read your contribs – look forward to your boat train stuff – meanwhile I’m thinking about Pullman cars on the SR – I’m hoping you will come in with something about the Brighton Belle, given your Brighton Line connections!
Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, I'll take a triple JD on the rocks! Just lost 2 posts within the hour, haven't a clue what's going on. But my patience isn't, so either this works, or I'm gone. <frown>
And to think I was in an upbeat frame of mind until this happened! <growl>
I'm not going to try to recreate my lost ramblings, just let me say that it's good to see Doug 'n DL today. Kind of expected it to be a light traffic week and perhaps even less as we get closer to the holiday weekend. As Cap'n Tom likes to tell us, "We takes what we gets!"
Couldn't agree more with the enforcement of the policy at the bar. I've always been in favor of totally ignoring those who ignore us. What' s the point in playing footsie with guys who refuse to get on board My question is and has been, WHY ARE THEY HERE Didn't we just go through all of this most recently Good grief Charlie Brown! There are many, many sites where one can engage in the "one way" posting - it isn't welcome here. So, I'm all for ignoring people like that.
Really a weird thing happening to my set up here, for the conenction to the internet is locking up my 'puter. Haven't been on any other sites but this one. So, perhaps someone more well versed than I can figure it out. I have NO patience with it!
Sorry, Cap'n Tom - but it's turned into a mess and I betta skedaddle before I break something or somebody! <uh oh!>
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