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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 7:27 AM
P.S. The change of nomeclature from "Pikes Perspective" to "Toy and Model Train Day" is not only appropriate but altogether fitting. See ya's soon.
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:11 AM
CHICAGO
BURLINGTON
&
QUINCY
Streamlined Sleeping Cars Part One
by Al
The CB&Q was the pioneer in streamlined diesel powered lightweight articulated trains with the 9900 ZEPHYR and its two car train. The 9900 ZEPHYR unveiled in May 1934 to a nation deep in the throes of the depression offered a glimmer of hope in its glistening stainless steel finish and showed that nation that a brighter future lay ahead.
The CB&Q were one of the so-called granger roads that traversed the American wheat belt the breadbasket of the nation. Other granger roads were the Milwaukee Road, Chicago & North Western, Chicago Rock Island & Pacific, Chicago Great Western, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and St. Louis - San Francisco. All of these roads have disappeared by now either merged out of existence or bankrupt. For one of these roads to be a major factor and pioneer in streamlining is even more amazing.
After the CB&Q purchased the 9900 ZEPHYR they followed it with three more articulated train sets built by the Budd Company before questioning the future of the articulated train sets. The CB&Q was becoming disillusioned with the articulated trains as there fixed consists did not permit the expansion of the passenger capacity by adding additional cars, if part of the articulated train set was out of service for whatever reason then the entire train set was out of service.
The first ZEPHYRS with sleeping cars were the DENVER ZEPHYRS inaugurated November 7, 1936. These were the first ZEPHYRS to have no more than any three cars articulated together, and the power could simply be uncoupled. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS provided fast 16 hour overnight scheduling between Chicago and Denver a distance of just over a thousand miles. Each of the two consists are listed below.

9906A SILVER KING Shovelnose 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9906B SILVER QUEEN 1,200 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

950 SILVER COURIER Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

980 SILVER LINING Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Car

4852 SILVER BEAM 64 Revenue Seat Coach 16 Seat Dinette Car (added May 1938)

4631 SILVER CITY Articulated 64 Revenue Seat Coach
4632 SILVER LAKE Articulated 38 Revenue Seat Coach
152 SILVER GRILL Articulated 40 Seat Dining Car

410 SILVER STATE Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
411 SILVER TIP Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car

412 SILVER ARROW Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
440 SILVER SIDES Articulated 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

445 SILVER SLIPPER 4 Roomette 4 Chambrette 1 Drawing Room 1 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added April 1939)

230 SILVER FLASH 10 Revenue Seat Parlor Buffet 31 Seat Lounge Observation

SECOND CONSIST

9907A SILVER KNIGHT Shovelnose 1,800 hp Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9907B SILVER PRINCESS 1,200 hp Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

951 SILVER HERALD Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car

981 SILVER BAR Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory 16 Seat Lounge Car

4853 SILVER BELL 64 Revenue Seat Coach 16 Seat Dinette Car (added May 1938)

4633 SILVER SPRUCE Articulated 64 Revenue Seat Coach
4634 SILVER PLUME Articulated 38 Revenue Seat Coach
153 SILVER SERVICE Articulated 40 Seat Dining Car

413 SILVER SKATES Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
414 SILVER SCREEN Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car

415 SILVER TONE Articulated 12 Section Sleeping Car
441 SILVER THREADS Articulated 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

446 SILVER MOON 4 Roomette 4 Chambrette 1 Drawing Room 1 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added April 1939)

231 SILVER STREAK 10 Revenue Seat Parlor Buffet 31 Seat Lounge Observation

As can be seen by the DENVER ZEPHYR consists above each train set received one additional Sleeping car in April 1939 from Budd. These two cars 445 SILVER SLIPPERS and 446 SILVER MOON the last new cars added to the DENVER ZEPHYRS. In 1938 two Coaches were added to the Denver Zephyrs one per consist.

ARTICULATED 12 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October 1936 Plan: 9512 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

410 SILVER STATE

412 SILVER ARROW

413 SILVER SKATES

415 SILVER TONE

ARTICULATED 12 SECTION SLEEPING CARS October 1936 Plan: 9514 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

411 SILVER TIP

414 SILVER SCREEN

ARTICULATED 3 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October 1936 Plan: 9515 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

440 SILVER SIDES

441 SILVER THREADS

4 ROOMETTE 4 CHAMBRETTES 1 DRAWING ROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company April 1939 Plan: 9516 (Built for and added to DENVER ZEPHYRS transferred 1956 to TEXAS ZEPHYRS)

445 SILVER SLIPPER

446 SILVER MOON

The Burlington and Rock Island inaugurated the ZEPHYR-ROCKET January 7, 1941 between Minneapolis and St. Louis overnight in each direction. The CB&Q handled the trains between St. Louis and Burlington a distance of 221 miles and the Rock Island handled the train between Burlington and Minneapolis a distance of 366 miles for a total of 587 miles. Each of the two railroads provided one 2,000 hp diesel unit and one set of equipment except for the Dining Lounge Observations 432 ST. LOUIS and 433 ST. PAUL they were both Rock Island owned. The modernized Pullman heavyweight sleeping cars were painted light gray to match the rest of the stainless steel cars in consists. Initially each consist carried one modernized heavy-weight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping car MINNEAPOLIS or CEDAR RAPIDS, and in June 1941 a second modernized heavy-weight sleeping car with 8 Section 1 Drawing Room and 3 Double Bedrooms was added to each ZEPHYR-ROCKET consist ZEPHYR TOWER or ROCKET TOWER. In December 1948 ownership of the sleeping cars was transferred to the two railroads. ZEPHYR TOWER and MINNEAPOLIS became CB&Q cars while ROCKET TOWER and CEDAR RAPIDS became Rock Island cars.
The two consist are listed below.

CB&Q
9913 SILVER WINGS EMD E5A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1601 SILVER MAIL Baggage 30 " Railway Post Office Car

902 SILVER EXPRESS Baggage Car

4709 SILVER CASTLE 52 Revenue Seat Coach

MINNEAPOLIS Modernized Heavy-weight 10 Section 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

ZEPHYR TOWER Modernized Heavy-weight 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added June 1941)

432 ST. LOUIS (CRI&P) 24 Seat Dining 16 Seat Parlor Lounge Observation

CRI&P

627 EMD E6A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

500 Modernized Heavyweight Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

861 Modernized Heavyweight Baggage Car

312 WATERLOU 52 Revenue Seat Coach

CEDAR RAPIDS Modernized Heavy-weight 10 Section 3 double Bedroom Sleeping Car

ROCKET TOWER Modernized Heavy-weight 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 3 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (added June 1941)

433 ST. PAUL 24 Seat Dining 16 Seat Parlor Lounge Observation

The next new CB&Q streamlined sleeping cars would come to the road in 1947 but not in the stainless steel finish of their other cars. Instead the five sleeping cars with CB&Q in the letter board at the ends were painted in the new Omaha Orange Pullman Green with Dulux Gold separation Stripes and lettered for the EMPIRE BUILDER. The CB&Q owned one complete consist of the new Chicago - Seattle, Portland streamliner delivered in February 1947 except for power, which the CB&Q provided themselves between St. Paul and Chicago. The CB&Q EMPIRE BUILDER Sleeping cars were as follows.

4 SECTION 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard December 1946 - January 1947 Plan: 4107 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR in 1951)
1167 CUT BANK
PASS
1168 RED GAP PASS

16 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4108 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to GN EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to GN WESTERN STAR in 1951)

1178 SPERRY GLACIER

1179 SIYEH GLACIER

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 20 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard January - February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot: 6751 (Built for and assigned to GN EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to GN WESTERN STAR in 1951)

1194 MARIAS RIVER

Beginning in June 1948 the CB&Q began receiving the first of four more Pullman Standard built sleeping cars painted for the Northern Pacific NORTH COAST LIMITED. The CB&Q would own one of the six streamlined consists of this train but would provide their own power between Chicago and St. Paul. The NORTH COAST LIMITED was a Chicago - Seattle, Portland streamliner with the CB&Q responsible for its operation between Chicago and St. Paul. The four CB&Q owned sleeping cars for the NORTH COAST LIMITED were initially named only. These cars were all numbered in 1954 as they were repainted in the new Raymond Loewy two tone green with white separation stripe paint scheme of the NORTH COAST LIMITED.

6 ROOMETTE 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE 1 COMPARTMENT 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard July - September 1948 Plan: 4119 Lot: 6781 (Built for and assigned to NP NORTH COAST LIMITED)

CHICAGO

DUBUQUE

SAVANNA

1 COMPARTMENT 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 25 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard June - July 1948 Plan: 4120 Lot: 6781 (Built for and assigned to NP NORTH COAST LIMITED)

MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

The numbering and loss of names of the NP cars occurred as follows.

February 1954

480 originally CB&Q CHICAGO

June 1954

482 originally CB&Q DUBUQUE

483 originally CB&Q MINNEAPOLIS CLUB

October 1954

481 originally CB&Q SAVANNA

TTFN AL
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:15 AM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Forgot my manners in the previous post . Guess that will cost me a round when the bar starts serving the good stuff. In the mean time I'll have a coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

PS see how excited i get with CB&Q
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Posted by coalminer3 on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:23 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present: Coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Survived the first game with the!@#$ Yankees last night – it’s gonna be a long season.

Tom’s index is most helpful. I just wonder of there’s any truth to him raffling off a bound folio of the Mentor Village Gazette to help float his trip to Toronto....also, some more daily wisdom for you. This is the famous question the interviewer put to Willie Sutton. “Why do you rob banks?” Sutton replied, “Because that’s where the money is.” BTW. Don’t feel so bad abt. Boris’s automotive escapade. My ex scalped a Cavalier when she drove it under a coal truck – wonder she wasn’t killed – she told the officer when he came to take the accident report, “I never saw it.” ‘Nuff said.

Barndad – Open house? Yikes! Nice to see VR material again – that was one of my favorite magazines

Lars – Back in your April 30 post you mentioned “Cobb” not being favorably rec’d by the p.c. crowd in your part of the world. I know what confused you – I agreed with you! (LOL).

Nick @ Nite – With captions. Thanks!

Wanswheel – Ware Palmer? Heart of B&A and CV country for certain. My paternal grandfather worked in Palmer for awhile back in the day...Also many thanks for the picture of Providence – Union station in the lower left corner – and the square in front of the building with the statue of General Burnside – I always thought it appropriate that the first thing the traveler saw upon exiting the station was the west end of Burnside’s eastbound horse.

Theodorebear – Hang in there.

Now on to the Burlington – How about something other than Zephyrs and other streamliners?

The Burlington (CB&Q) had a variety of motor cars built in the late 1920s. For the most part, these cars were built by Electro Motive Corporation (EMC), although a handful was built by Edwards, and one by Mack. Some of these motor cars lasted until the mid 1960s. CB&Q subsidiaries operating motor cars included the Colorado and Southern Fort Worth and Denver City and the Wichita Valley. Our interest here, however, is some of the Q’s motor car services in the southern Illinois coalfields.

The story of the Burlington’s entry into southern Illinois goes back to the turn of the 20th century when James J. Hill, president of the Great Northern, in order to ensure a supply of good coal for his railroad, took control of approximately 30 thousand acres of coal properties which quickly came under Burlington control.

The CB&Q, in 1904, took control of a rail line from Concord to Centralia, Illinois. By 1906, the Q had built south from Centralia to Herrin. This track ran through the heart of coal country in southern Illinois. Three years later the Burlington had built to Neilson, Illinois. The Q then reached Metropolis via 16 miles of trackage rights on the Chicago and Eastern Illinois to W. Vienna. Burlington itself built the rest of the way from W. Vienna to Metropolis. The Paducah and Illinois Railroad was chartered in Kentucky in 1910 to build a bridge across the Ohio River to connect Metropolis and Paducah. The bridge was finished in December, 1917. The P&I gave the Burlington access to the south via the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis and gave them a coal route to the north. The bridge cost approximately $5.5 million (in 1917 dollars!).

You can see some pictures of the bridge at http://bridges.midwestplaces.com/ Click on Illinois and then click on Massac County (at the bottom of the map) and follow the links. This site has lots of fascinating material.

Jumping ahead to 1930, the Burlington’s line to southern Illinois had changed very little. It began at Buda, Illinois (about midway between Aurora and Galesburg). Here, the Q’s line to East St. Louis broke off from the main line. Another line broke away at Concord to head southeast toward the coalfields and the Q’s Ohio River bridge. The mines in southern Illinois were extremely productive even though some of the mining towns such as Centralia and West Frankfort came to have a legacy of tragedy.

Motor cars provided passenger service on the Burlington’s Illinois coal lines in 1930.

Motor cars operated between Buda and Rushville. It took about five hours for the motor car to make the 111-mile trip. Additional service ran between Yates City and Vermont; and Yates City and Rushville.

Trains 11 and 12 were the longest of the coalfield passenger runs. They covered the 173 miles between Beardstown and Herrin in approximately7 hours and 15 minutes. The second part of the run (same train numbers and presumably the same equipment) plied the 57 miles between Herrin and Metropolis. Passengers choosing to ride the entire distance between Beardstown and Metropolis could expect (if the train was on time) to spend 9 hours en route. Additional service operated between Beardstown and Litchfield.

It certainly was not the Zephyr, but these runs provided needed service to area towns.

For those who want to find out more about Burlington motor cars, two books are useful.

Edmund Kielty’s book Doodlebug Country (1982) is an excellent source for technical information on the Q’s motor cars. It has an extremely detailed roster along with color and black and white equipment pictures.

Kielty’s first book, Interurbans Without Wires (1979) has a most of a Burlington 4-6-2 hauling a dead motor car near Centralia.

The Burlington Historical Society has a book about CB&Q mining activity in Illinois. I have not seen it, but it is on my wish list.

work safe
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:59 AM
Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Seventeen


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad (The Burlington Route)




Reporting marks: CBQ

Locale: Colorado, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Wisconsin and Wyoming

Dates of operation: 1849 – 1970

Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge)

Headquarters: Chicago, IL


The Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad (AAR reporting mark CBQ) was a railroad that operated in the Midwestern United States. Commonly referred to as the Burlington or as the Q, the railroad served a large area, including extensive trackage in the states of Colorado, Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Wisconsin and Wyoming. Its primary connections included Chicago, Minneapolis-St. Paul, St. Louis, Kansas City and Denver. Because of this extensive tracking in the midwest and mountain states the Q used the slogans "Everywhere West"; "Way of the Zephyrs" and "The Way West".


History

The Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad began operation in the 1840s by running a single passenger lashup over recycled rails from Aurora to Chicago. However, within the next three years, the railroad was able to expand into the true namesake - holding trackage extending through the cities of Chicago, Burlington, Quincy, and Aurora. The CB&Q became well known as one of the finest "granger roads" or a railroad which served agricultural areas, often through smaller branch trackage. In 1849, the Burlington Route staged its last spike ceremony. Before that, they had been operating to whatever the current end of trackage was.

With a steady acquisition of locomotives, cars, equipment, and trackage, the Burlington Route was able to enter the trade markets in 1862. As of this year, that railroad has been the only Class I US railroad to constantly pay dividends and never run into debt or default on a loan.

In 1868 the CB&Q completed bridges over the Mississippi River both at Burlington, Iowa and Quincy, Illinois giving the railroad through connections with the Burlington and Missouri River (B&MR) Railroad in Iowa and the Hannibal & St, Joseph (H&St.J) Railroad in Missouri. The first Railway Post Office was inaugurated on the H&St.J to sort mail on the trains way across Missouri, passing the mail to the Pony Express upon reaching the Missouri River at St. Joseph, Missouri. The B&MR continued building westward into Nebraska as a separate company, the Burlington & Missouri River Rail Road in Nebraska, founded in 1869. During the summer of 1870 it reached Lincoln, the newly designated capital of Nebraska and by 1872 it reached Kearney, Nebraska. That same year the B&MR across Iowa was absorbed by the CB&Q. By the time the Missouri River bridge at Plattsmouth, Nebraska was completed the B&MR in Nebraska was well on its way to the Mile High city of Denver, Colorado. That same year, the Nebraska B&MR was purchased by the CB&Q which completed the line to Denver by 1882, the first direct rail line from Chicago to Denver.

Burlington's rapid expansion after the Civil War was based upon sound financial management, dominated by John Murray Forbes of Boston and assisted by Charles E. Perkins. Perkins was a powerful administrator who eventually forged a system out of previously loosely-held affiliates, virtually tripling Burlington's size during his presidency from 1881 to 1901.

With the First World War having the same effect on the Burlington as on all other railroads, during the 1920s the Burlington Route had an increasingly heavy amount of equipment flooding the yards. With the advent of the Great Depression, the CB&Q held a good portion of this for scrap. Despite the decrease of passengers, it was during this time that the Q introduced the famed Zephyrs.

After the Second World War, the CB&Q was inundated by the overworked steam locomotives existent in a fleet that was already beginning to dieselize. The CB&Q began dieselization with the General Motors Electro-Motive-Division equipment, whose major manufacturing and assembly plant was in McCook, Illinois, convinently just south of the CB&Q triple track main-line at LaGrange, Illinois. By 1959, dieselization was compelte with the last steam trains retiring from regular service over the Q.

As the financial situation of American railroading continued to decline through the 1960s, the Burlington merged with the Great Northern, Northern Pacific and the Spokane, Portland and Seattle railroads on March 2, 1970 to form the Burlington Northern Railroad.

The Burlington Zephyrs

The railroad operated a number of streamlined passenger trains known as the Zephyrs which were the most famous and largest fleet of streamliners in the United States. The Pioneer Zephyr, America's first diesel-electric powered streamlined passenger train, made its famous "Dawn-to-Dusk" run from Denver, Colorado to Chicago, Illinois on May 26, 1934. On November 11, 1934 the train was put into regularly scheduled service between Lincoln, Nebraska and Kansas City, Missouri. Although the distinctive, articulated stainless steel trainsets were well known, and the railroad adopted the "Way of the Zephyrs" slogan, they did not attract passengers back to the rails, and the last one stopped running with the advent of Amtrak.

The Zephyr service included

Pioneer Zephyr (Lincoln–Omaha–Kansas City),
Twin Cities Zephyr (Chicago–Minneapolis-St. Paul),
Mark Twain Zephyr (St. Louis–Burlington),
Denver Zephyr (Chicago–Denver),



The Burlington Zephyr in April, 1934.

Nebraska Zephyr (Chicago–Lincoln),
Sam Houston Zephyr (Houston–Dallas-Ft. Worth),
Ozark State Zephyr (Kansas City–St. Louis),
General Pershing Zephyr (Kansas City–St. Louis),
Silver Streak Zephyr (Kansas City–Omaha–Lincoln),
Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr (Kansas City–Omaha–Lincoln),
Zephyr-Rocket (St. Louis–Minneapolis-St. Paul),
• Texas Zephyr (Denver–Dallas-Ft. Worth),
American Royal Zephyr (Chicago–Kansas City),
Kansas City Zephyr (Chicago–Kansas City),
California Zephyr (Chicago–Oakland).

Innovations

The Burlington was a leader in implementing technological innovation; among its firsts were use of the printing telegraph (1910), train radio communications (1915), streamlined passenger diesel power (1934) and vista-dome coaches (1939). In 1927, the Burlington was one of the first to utilize Centralized Traffic Control (CTC) and by the end of 1957 had equipped 1,500 miles of its right-of-way for this advanced type of signaling.

References

• Burlington Route Historical Society
• North American Railroad Slogans


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



Did you miss any of the previous sixteen[?] Click the URL:

#1: Baltimore & Ohio (B&O
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
#2: Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3: Pennsylvania (PRR)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270
#4: New York Central (NYC)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=240&TOPIC_ID=35270
#5: New Haven (NYNH&H)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=242&TOPIC_ID=35270
#6: Santa Fe (ATSF) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=246&TOPIC_ID=35270
#7: Southern Pacific (SP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=253&TOPIC_ID=35270
#8: Northern Pacific (NP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=259&TOPIC_ID=35270
#9: Coastline/Seaboard (ACL – SCL – SAL) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=267&TOPIC_ID=35270
#10: Southern Railway (SOU)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=276&TOPIC_ID=35270
#11: Denver and Rio Grande Western (D&RG)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=282&TOPIC_ID=35270
#12: Great Northern Railway (GN)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=287&TOPIC_ID=35270
#13: Missouri Pacific (MP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=293&TOPIC_ID=35270
#14: Illinois Central (IC)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=299&TOPIC_ID=35270
#15: Boston & Maine (B&M)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=307&TOPIC_ID=35270
#16: Western Pacific (WP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=313&TOPIC_ID=35270
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 11:20 AM
Good Mornin’ Gents!

Appears that the storms have passed through and left us with blue skies – temps expected to reach the 80s (F) today as things begin to dry a bit after some much needed rain these past few days (on ‘n off). Don’t have a first-hand observation for “Collusion Corner,” but last time I saw it, petrol was at $2.75 (rounded) – radio sez that’s the average ‘round these parts.

Getting a bit “concerned” over no response to Emails – especially since most of my outgoing are REPLIES! C’mon guys, this is liking waiting for the mailman! [swg]

I see we’ve had a couple of participants jump on the Burlington Route this AM – so, let’s get started with the acknowledgments:

But first – for Mike – Those URLs from last night were absolutely terrific and as always, “right on!” Don’t know how you do it (of course I really do!) with regard to finding pretty much anything and everything you are thinking about – but what counts is the objective is attained. Good job! [tup][tup][tup]

It’s been a couple of decades, but that one shot of the Lock & Dam looks to be #15 at Davenport. Could be wrong. Back in the early 80s, I was part of a joint governmental study looking at the locks & dams along the Mississippi for reasons not needed to be expounded upon here in the Ether. Anyway, I met with each ‘n every lockmaster from the north to the south. An interesting and time consuming round of trips – but extremely “eye opening.”

Also got a kick out of the Hiawatha shots. Presumed they were “commemorative runs” or excursions. Nevertheless, great looking fer sure, fer sure! Kudos, Mike! [tup][tup][tup]


Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 02 May 2006, 07:23:12 & 07:27:52


The Bear man has returned! [swg] Missed your comments these past couple of days – but figured you were either “hornswaggled” into helping a friend, or working on whatever it is that keeps you busy. Wrong on both accounts! Hope the weekend was enjoyable! [swg]

Your comments regarding trying to catch up on the Posts brings to mind a thought or two for all the guys:

An impetus for starting this Thread was to get away from those situations where info Posted quickly vanishes as multiple pages rack up in only a matter of hours. Not so ‘round here – exception being “special events” like Bashes and Vets/Memorial Day. And yet, it IS time consuming to catch up on what one may have missed between visits.

Use of the Summaries and Indexes should be of assistance though . . .

For the most part the guys who frequent this bar have been pretty good about answering questions – acknowledging others and maintaining an inclusiveness with their Posts. Of course, we’re always going to have the “centric few,” but such is life.

As mentioned in one of my previous Posts, I expect things to slow down, considerably, ‘round here as the guys take leave of the place for parts of this month and the next. Hopefully, we’ll be able to muster up some “regularity” amongst those left behind.

Going in for your “15,000 mile:”check-up, eh[?] Glad to know the “benefits” are still working for “some” of us. From what I’ve been reading, that “free medical care for life” for military retirees simply isn’t and hasn’t been. I could write a book! But that’s another story – good luck with your visit! [tup]


passengerfan Al
Posted: 02 May 2006, 08:11:17 & 08:15:53


Figgered you’d be the 1st to leap all over the Burlington Route! [swg] And I’m sure there’s more where that came from! [tup]

No harm, no foul – as the saying goes. You “recovered” quickly enough to avoid receiving a Tweeeeeting! [swg]


coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 02 May 2006, 08:23:01


It’s been many a moon since I last saw a Yanks – Red Sox game at either place. Always tried to take in at least one game in the season series when living in “Beantown,” and same for when in “The Big Apple.” (‘course, they didn’t call it that when I lived and worked there – that’s how long back it was!) From what I’ve witnessed on TV, the stuff going on in the stands has really taken on a different dimension from the days I recall. But, same can be said ‘round here as well.

A couple of weeks ago there was a rather lengthy account of what had happened to a grandfather and his grand daughter at a Cardinals game. It was really sad, infuriating and indicative of the times we live in. Won’t get into it all here – but the “low lites” concerned the profanity being directed at the opposing players, along with the home team as well! – excessive drinking – pot smoking, and it goes downhill from there. Apparently the people overseeing the crowds in the bleachers weren’t very interested in controlling the situation. Not good. Kinda bolsters a thing I have within me that sez, “If I could only select those for whom I would fight and die for . . . .”

A bound folio of the Gazettes wouldn’t bring in enough to fill a thimble with what I’m planning on consuming in Toronto! Nice thought, though . . . [swg]

I remember when “Willie Sutton” was somewhat of a “folk hero’ back when he was making headlines. Funny comment attributed to him, and that’s the stuff movies come from. Let’s see, who do you think could portray him in film[?]

That story you told about your “ex,” brings to mind a still-vivid pix in my mind of an accident I witnessed on the PA turnpike back in 1971. Was heading east when I happened to see a west bound station wagon run right into and beneath a tractor trailer that had slowed for a traffic situation. As my speed took me rapidly from the scene, I recall seeing the station wagon disappear beneath the rear of the trailer. Never did see or hear anything about it during my drive to NYC or in the papers when I got there. No way anyone survived that. Grim.

Nice stuff on the Burlington and that URL on the bridges is a gold mine! Thanx. [tup][tup][tup]

Thanx, as always, for the quarters and the round! [tup]


Okay boyz – I’ll be here for the remainder of the day.


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


BE SMARTER, use the “Reload/Refresh” as soon as you get to ”Our” Place It’s the only way to get the most current Posts!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 1:45 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

If you haven't guessed CB&Q was another favorite of mine.

CB&Q
Streamlined Sleeping Cars Part Two
By Al

The next group of sleeping cars delivered to the CB&Q were for another joint operation. These cars were for the all stainless steel VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR a Chicago - San Francisco daily train requiring six sets of equipment. The CB&Q operated the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR between Chicago and Denver where the Denver and Rio Grande Western took over for the daylight run through the Rockies to Salt Lake City. At Salt Lake City power was once again exchanged and the Western Pacific operated the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR to and from Oakland where passengers boarded either buses or boarded a ferry for the ride to San Francisco. The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR became America's first long distance streamlined cruise train. Each train operated with five Vista- Domes in each consist. There were three Dome Coaches for the Coach passengers and the remaining two domes were for the exclusive use of the Sleeping car passengers. Each of the three operating roads provided their own diesels for the trip over their rails. A typical VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR consist as inaugurated March 20, 1949 follows.

VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR

9960A EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9960B EMD F3B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

9960C EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

903 SILVER BEAR 70" Baggage Car

4718 SILVER LARIAT 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Women and Children's Coach

4719 SILVER RANCH 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg rest Coach

4720 SILVER RIFLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg rest Coach

250 SILVER CLUB 24 Seat Vista Dome 19 Seat Coffee Shop 8 Seat Lounge 19 Crew Dormitory Car

423 SILVER POINT 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

424 SILVER SHORE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

193 SILVER CAFÉ 48 Seat Dining Car

400 SILVER MAPLE 16 Section Sleeping Car

425 SILVER BUTTE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Through New York - San Francisco)

375 SILVER HORIZON 24 Seat Vista Dome 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room 12 Seat Lounge W/Bar 14 Seat Lounge Observation

CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR cars were owned by four railroads the CB&Q, D&RGW, WP and a lone 10-6 sleeping car owned by the PRR used as a through car. The following lists the new VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR sleeping cars by owning road.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September - November 1948 Plan: 9509 Lot: 9659 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

423 SILVER POINT

424 SILVER SHORE

425 SILVER BUTTE

426 SILVER CLIFF

427 SILVER FALLS

428 SILVER VALLEY

D&RGW

1130 SILVER PASS

1131 SILVER SUMMIT

1132 SILVER GORGE

1133 SILVER CREEK

1134 SILVER GLACIER

WP
861 SILVER ARROYO

862 SILVER CANYON

863 SILVER MOUNTAIN

864 SILVER PALISADE

865 SILVER RANGE

866 SILVER BAY

867 SILVER SURF

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Budd Company November 1948 Plan: 9520 Lot: 9662-031 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

PRR

8449 SILVER RAPIDS

16 SECTION SLEEPING CARS Budd Company October - November 1948 Plan: 9507 Lot: 9639 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

400 SILVER MAPLE

401 SILVER LARCH

D&RGW

1120 SILVER ASPEN

1121 SILVER PINE

WP

871 SILVER PALM

872 SILVER POPLAR

24 SEAT VISTA DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 12 SEAT LOUNGE W/BAR 14 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1948 - January 1949 Plan: 9511 Lot: 9660 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
375 SILVER HORIZON

376 SILVER PENTHOUSE

377 SILVER SOLARIUM

D&RGW

1145 SILVER SKY

WP

881 SILVER CRESCENT

882 SILVER PLANET

Shortly after the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR entered service a decision was made to equip the one Drawing Rooms annex with a shower for passengers using the most expensive sleeping car space on the train. The installation of the showers was done in Chicago on the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR layovers by CB&Q maintenance crews. The Budd Company supplied kits and it took the CB&Q crews about 12 hours for each shower installation.
The VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR added a new sleeping car to each consist in August 1952. This was an all room sleeping car with 6 Double Bedrooms and 5 Compartments. With the addition of these cars the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR offered Sections with Uppers and Lowers, Roomettes, Double Bedrooms, Compartments, and a single Drawing Room. Two Double Bedrooms could be opened up ensuite for additional Drawing Room space if necessary otherwise there was just the one drawing room with its own private shower. The addition of the all room sleeping car to each consist gave more private room space to the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.
6 DOUBLE BEDROOM 5 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Budd Company July - August 1952 Plan: 9534 Lot: 9641 - 112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q

450 SILVER DOVE

451 SILVER QUAIL

452 SILVER THRUSH

D&RGW

1135 SILVER GULL

WP

851 SILVER CRANE

852 SILVER SWALLOW

In addition the CB&Q purchased four additional sleeping cars for CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR service. With each CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR arriving in Chicago in the AM and not departing until the next afternoon, sleeping cars from the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR were able to operate to Omaha- Lincoln overnight in the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR with the additional sleeping cars of 1952. The returning AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR from the west would give up its sleeping cars for that days departing VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Due to this arrangement the CB&Q was able to operate two trains by buying only one additional set of sleeping cars. The sleeping cars operated in the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR were lettered for the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Those cars purchased for the additional sleeping car section of the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR were two 10-Roomette 6 Double Bedroom cars, one 16 Section Sleeping car and a 234 seat Vista Dome 3 Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room 12 Seat Lounge w/bar 13 seat Lounge Observation. In addition to the new Sleeping cars for the joint AK-SAR-BEN - CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR operation the CB&Q received 12 other new sleeping cars for other CB&Q overnight services as follows.

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company June 1952 Plan: 9531 Lot: 9660-112 (Built for and assigned to the following CB&Q trains)

AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR

431 SILVER DALE

436 SILVER SLOPE

BLACKHAWK

432 SILVER ISLE

433 SILVER MEADOW

434 SILVER PLAIN

435 SILVER PRAIRIE

VISTA - DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR
AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR

429 SILVER CRAG

430 SILVER CHASM

6 SECTION 6 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company August - September 1952 Plan: 9530 Lot: 9658-112 (Built for and assigned to AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR and BLACKHAWK)

AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR

460 SILVER FLOWER

462 SILVER HYACINTH

463 SILVER IRIS

465 SILVER TULIP

BLACKHAWK

461 SILVER GLADIOLA

464 SILVER ORCHID

16 SECTION SLEEPING CAR Budd Company September 1952 Plan: 9532 Lot: 9639-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR pool)

402 SILVER CEDAR

24 SEAT VISTA - DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM 12 SEAT LOUNGE W/BAR 13 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1952 Plan: 9533 Lot: 9659-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR - AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR pool)

378 SILVER LOOKOUT

The BLACKHAWK was the CB&Q overnight train between Chicago and St. Paul-Minneapolis. It was an assortment of heavyweight cars and lightweight stainless steel cars for much of its career and ran combined with the GN WESTERN STAR and NP MAINSTREETER as well. The BLACKHAWKS operated with two of the previously mentioned lightweight streamlined 10-6 Sleeping cars in each consist and one of the new 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars in each consist. The ^ section 6 Roomette 4 double Bedroom cars were built with the Bedrooms in the center of the car with Roomettes located at one end and Sections at the other end of these cars.
Beginning February 1, 1953 the CB&Q inaugurated two new streamliners the KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR between Chicago and Kansas City with a connecting service between St. Joseph and Brookfield in each direction. This was a daylight operation so carried no sleeping cars. The other new train on that date was the AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR an overnight train between Chicago and Kansas City with a section to and from St. Joseph split or joined at Brookfield. Consists of the initial streamlined AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS follow.

9969 EMD E8A 2,250 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9936A EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel passenger Cab Unit (St. Joseph - Chicago)

996 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

1581 Heavyweight Storage Mail Car

1033 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car

4733 SILVER SPEAR 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

321 SILVER PATIO 24 Seat Vista dome 28 Revenue Seat Coach Buffet 28 seat Coffee Shop - Lounge Car

462 SILVER HYACINTH 6 Section 6 roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

436 SILVER SLOPE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

465 SILVER TULIP 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

4734 SILVER SWORD 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(St. Joseph - Chicago)

SECOND CONSIST

9964 EMD E8A 2,250 HP Diesel Passenger cab Unit

9932B EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

1012 Heavyweight Baggage Express Car
(Chicago - St. Joseph

1586 Heavyweight Storage Mail Car

998 Heavyweight Baggage - Express Car

4732 SILVER SHIELD 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

320 SILVER GARDEN 24 Seat Vista Dome 28 Revenue Seat Coach Buffet 28 Seat Lounge Car

460 SILVER FLOWER 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

431 SILVER DALE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

463 SILVER IRIS 6 Section 6 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

4731 SILVER SHAFT 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - St. Joseph)

In June 1951 the Great Northern introduced an all-new Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. Initially the CB&Q owned none of the cars of the 15 car consists. The CB&Q did own one complete consist of the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER equipment that now operated as the WESTERN STAR a secondary train between Chicago and the Pacific Northwest. In September 1953 the Great Northern transferred one complete set of the new EMPIRE BUILDER equipment to the CB&Q. Sleeping cars transferred to the CB&Q with no change of numbers were as follows.

6 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM 2 COMPARTMENT SLEPPING CARS Pullman Standard October - November 1950 Plan: 4180 Lot: 6877 (Built for GN Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to CB&Q ownership September 1953)

1371 PITAMAKIN PASS

1378 FIREBRAND PASS

1382 BLEWETT PASS

4 SECTIONS 1 COMPARTMENT 7 DUPLEX ROOMETTES 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard November - December 1950 Plan: 4181 Lot: 6889 (Built for and assigned to GN Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to CB&Q ownership September 1953)

1266 SHEYENNE RIVER

1269 POPLAR RIVER

1273 PEND ORIELLE RIVER

In 1954 the Northern Pacific added Dome Coaches and Dome Sleeping cars to the NORTH OAST LIMITED. At the same time the new Raymond Loewy paint scheme of two tone green with a white separation stripe and lettering was introduced. From that point on the NORTH COAST LIMITED was referred to as the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. Two of the new VISTA - DOME Sleeping cars from Budd were owned by the CB&Q as follows.

24 SEAT ISTA DOME 4 ROOMETTE 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 4 DUPLEX ROOMETTE SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September - November 1954 Plan: 9535 Lot: 9669 - 141 (Built for and assigned to NP VISTA DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED owned by CB&Q)

304, 305

In July 1955 the CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER a WESTERN STAR Sleeper Lounge Observation was rebuilt by Pullman to a COULEE series sleeper lounge Observation and transferred to the EMPIRE BUILDER. The same work was completed on the other Five RIVER series Sleeper Lounge Observations and all were then assigned to the EMPIRE BUILDER. The new COULEE series Observations became the only lightweight streamlined sleeper Lounge Observations with Roomettes.

4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 6 ROOMETTE 9 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION New Pullman Plan: 4109K (Rebuilt for and assigned to Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER)

CB&Q 1194 TRAIL COULEE originally CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER

On October 28, 1956 the CB&Q inaugurated new Budd built streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS overnight between Chicago and Denver in both directions using two consists. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS were the last long distance full service trains built in the United States prior to Amtrak introducing the SUPERLINERS. The new DENVER ZEPHYRS offered reclining seat leg rest Coaches, Parlor Car Service, All room first class sleeping Car service, introduced the Slumbercoach to the traveling public.
The Slumbercoach was a Budd idea whose time had come. Here was a car that could carry Coach passengers in private rooms at Coach fare plus a small room charge. No need to upgrade to first class for this car and the capacity of the new Slumbercoach was a an astounding 40 passengers. There were 24 Single Rooms and 8 Double Rooms complete with Bed, Toilet facilities, music, individual air conditioning and heating controls, and drinking water. Although the single room was smaller than a duplex Roomette there was no wasted space and surprisingly the rooms were very comfortable. The new DENVER ZEPHYR consists would receive two of these new Slumbercoaches per consist one a Chicago - Denver car the other a Chicago - Colorado Springs car. The second Slumbercoach for each DENVER ZEPHYR consist was not delivered to the CB&Q until December 1956 in time for the Christmas rush, this became the Colorado Springs car in each consist.
In addition to the Slumbercoaches the CB&Q received new 10-6 Sleeping cars and 6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment sleeping cars were also delivered by Budd for the first class sleeping car patrons of the new DENVER ZEPHYRS. The 10-6 Sleeping cars were different than previous 10-6 sleeping cars delivered to the CB&Q as the Bedrooms were in the center of the car with 5 Roomettes located at each end of the cars. As with all Budd cars built for the CB&Q they were all so called deluxe cars with full skirting. The following is the inaugural new 1956 DENVER ZEPHYRS with the two Colorado Springs Slumbercoaches sown but they were not added to the consists until December 1956. It should be mentioned that the DENVER ZEPHYR was a double destination train with four of the cars in each consist forwarded by the D&RGW ROYAL GORGE to and from Colorado Springs from Denver. This Colorado Springs service by way of Denver was faster than the direct route between Chicago and Colorado Springs provided by the Rock Island ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET.

9987A EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9993 EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1601 SILVER MAIL Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

906 ARGO Baggage Express Car

4741 SILVER REIN 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4736 SILVER BRAND 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4901 SILVER SLUMBER 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach

4737 SILVER BIT
50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

254 SILVER KETTLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 8 Seat Lunch Counter 23 Seat Coffee Shop Buffet 16 Crew Dormitory Car
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

4902 SILVER REST 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

493 SILVER RIDGE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago - Colorado Springs)

201 SILVER CHEF 48 Seat Dining Car

453 SILVER SWAN
6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment Sleeping Car

486 SILVER PLATEAU 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

487 SILVER HOLLOW 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

236 SILVER VERANDA 24 Seat Vista Dome 11 Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Buffet 24 Seat Lounge Observation

EASTBOUND

9990 EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

9988B EMD E9A 2,400 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

1604 SILVER POUCH Baggage 30' Railway Post Office

907 OLYMPUS Baggage Express Car

4739 SILVER HALTER 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4735 SILVER BUCKLE 24 Seat Vista Dome 46 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach

4900 SILVER SIESTA 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumber Coach

4738 SILVER BLANKET 50 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coach
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

253 SILVER CUP
24 Seat Vista Dome 8 Seat Lunch Counter 23 Seat Coffee Shop Buffet 16 Crew Dormitory Car
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

4903 SILVER REPOSE 24 Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

485 SILVER TERRAIN 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Colorado Springs - Chicago)

202 SILVER TUREEN 48 Seat Dining Car

454 SILVER PELICAN 6 Double Bedroom 5 Compartment Sleeping Car

491 SILVER RAVINE 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

488 SILVER BOULDER 10 Roomette 6 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

235 SILVER CHATEAU 24 Seat Vista Dome 11 Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Buffet 24 Seat Lounge Observation

24 SINGLE ROOM 8 DOUBLE ROOM SLUMBERCOACHES Budd Company October 1956 Plan: 9540 Lot: 9691 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4900 SILVER SIESTA

4901 SILVER SLUMBER

24 SINGLE ROOM 8 DOUBLE ROOM SLUMBERCOACHES Budd Company December 1956 Plan: 9540 Lot: 9691 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4902 SILVER REST

4903 SILVER REPOSE

10 ROOMETTE 6 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company June - July 1956 Plan: 9538 Lot: 9641 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS with spares)

485 SILVER TERRAIN

486 SILVER PLATEAU

487 SILVER HOLLOW

488 SILVER BOULDER

489 SILVER CHANNEL

490 SILVER VALE

491 SILVER RAVINE

492 SILVER BASIN

493 SILVER RIDGE

6 DOUBLE BEDROOM 5 COMPARTMENT SLEEPING CARS Budd Company September 1956 Plan: 9539 Lot: 9641 - 169 (Built for and assigned to DENVER ZEPHYRS)

453 SILVER SWAN

454 SILVER PELICAN

The three 16 Section Sleeping Cars owned by the CB&Q and assigned to CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR service were rebuilt to 48 Revenue Seat Leg Rest Coaches in 1963-64 as follows. They received new 4700 series numbers but retained their original names.

November 1963

4742 SILVER MAPLE originally CB&Q 400 SILVER MAPLE

January 1964

4743 SILVER LARCH originally CB&Q 401 SILVER LARCH

February 1964

4744 SILVER CEDAR originally CB&Q 402 SILVER CEDAR

The CB&Q purchased a pair of used 24 Single 8 Double Room Slumbercoaches from the NP in March 1965 and retained their NP numbers and names as follows.

CB&Q 335 LOCH ARKAIG ex NP 335 LOCH ARKAIG originally NYC 10802

CB&Q 336 LOCH AWE ex NP 336 LOCH AWE originally NYC 10803

CB&Q owned VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED Sleeping Car 304 was remodeled in May 1967 to a Vista Dome Cocktail Lounge In The Sky Sleeping car with two of the under dome Single rooms were removed replaced by a Buffet. The Dome seating was replaced with 24 seats at tables for four. The car was renumbered 380 after completion of the work. Car 380 and the others rebuilt to Vista Dome Cocktail Lounge In The Sky cars were operated at the rear of all VISTA DOME NORTH OAST LIMITED train sets.
All CB&Q lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars passed to Burlington Northern ownership in the 1970 merger of the GN, NP, SP&S, CB&Q, C&S, and FW&D railroads. Many of the former CB&Q lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars were assigned BN numbers, but not all numbers were actually painted on the cars before Amtrak took over the nations passenger trains in 1971. At that time all BN lightweight-streamlined Budd built sleeping cars passed to Amtrak.

TTFN AL
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 2:42 PM
G’day Kapitan Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!


A great “Theme” selection for this institutionalized day! Didn’t take 20 Fingers long to revert back to the those looooooooooooooong winded data dumps that we’ve all come to “revere!” <ugh> Kinda like watching your mother-in-law drive off a cliff in your new car – mixed emotions! [swg]

Truly enjoyed browsing through the Burlington Route submissions and always like the way you are able to weave in those “Wikipedia” facts with your “Fallen Flags,” and so forth. Tells a complete story. Good job! [tup][tup][tup]

Sorry that I haven’t got anything to provide today – been a bit behind the curve with the time available for the research. Weekend my best effort! [swg]

Also want to make mention of that “theme” going on over on your “other thread.” Now, that too is a winnAH – a double whammy for sure on the Forum today! [tup][tup][tup] Maybe you could make that road a selection for your “RR from Yesteryear” down the tracks . . . . huh[?]


Got a kick out of Coalminer3 (I’m not Shane!) coal-what’s-his-face’s post of today! <phew> Anyway, lotsa good stuff crammed in his morning missives and always good to read! [tup]

Must add my kudos to the rest with regard to the URLs provided by wanswheel Mike – very, very enjoyable. [tup][tup][tup]

Liked the “reading assignment” from barndad Doug (aka: whatdoyouthinkthisisabarn?) Captivating and good stuff! [tup][tup][tup] Unfortunately, I see you are back to the attempts at jokes again! <uhg>

Had to do a bit of research to figure out what the Bear Man was talking about – now I’ve figurered it out. Hope all is well with you and that your “countdown” to Toronto goes off without a hitch. Would dearly love to “splice the mainbrace” with you Gents up thataway! Oh boy, if you only knew how much!! [tup]


Tom Received your email of this day and thank you for it. We definitely need to come up with a workable scheme to keep the bar functioning in light of all those planned absences. Perhaps those of us who received Tom’s Words will communicate amongst ourselves to work it all out. Worth a try, huh[?]

Pete ‘n BK received your replies! [tup]

Nick over there in Wales – one of these days we’re just going to have to get you to America! We’d have a blast, for sure! Always enjoy reading your ‘wisdom,’ and am actually beginning to understand you! [swg] Don’t know how you manage to keep those late hours – once upon a time, but no more for me. <groan>

Count Robulla What in the world is the deal, mate[?] All work and no play makes for a somewhat less-than-acceptable environment around the bar! Now, this has got to cease – you can always get a new job, a new car, a new . . . . well, maybe not THAT – but you sure in heck can’t find a cyber bar better ‘n this one! So, c’mon and resume with the interaction! [tup]

Looks like my “bookend” skipped another day – now that’s serious stuff, this marriage preparation! <grin> Times getting a bit ‘short’ for the man – so perhaps we should consider a bunch of “well wishes” on the 9th. He said that from the 10th on, he’s “gone.” I know the wedding is that Saturday . . . Sound ok[?]

Barkeep, a round of “good stuff” for the guys and I’ll take a Keiths Pale Ale! Nothing to eat today – as the Mrs. and I are planning a night out. Nothing special – just keeping her off balance! [swg]


Until the next time!

Lars
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 4:16 PM
Good Afternoon one more time Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.
How about the CB&Q domes in parts.

Chicago
Burlington
&
Quincy
(CB&Q)
Streamlined Dome Cars Part One
By Al


The Chicago Burlington & Quincy would be the largest owner of Budd built dome cars prior to Burlington Northern and a year later Amtrak.
The Burlington as previously mentioned built the first modern dome car in their own Aurora Shops in Illinois. Actually this was a rebuild from a prewar Budd built stainless steel streamlined coach. The completed car was the 4714 SILVER DOME so named upon completion of the conversion to dome. The CB&Q named the car a Vista-Dome a name they would use for all of the domes they owned except for the one VIEW series full-dome they operated in the GN EMPIRE BUILDERS.

24-SEAT VISTA DOME 34 REVENUE SEAT COACH Budd Company June 1940 Rebuilt to Dome in CB&Q Aurora Shops June 1945 (World’s first modern dome car referred to as the pattern dome assigned to TWIN ZEPHYR)

4714 SILVER DOME original name SILVER ALCHEMY)

From this single car the CB&Q would order ten Vista-Domes for the two consists of the postwar VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR. Each consist would have no less than five of the new VISTA-DOMES in each consist. There was three 54 revenue seat Vista-Dome coaches, one 50 revenue seat Vista-Dome coach and a single 29-revenue seat Parlor with 5-revenue seat Parlor Drawing Room Vista-Dome Observation. In addition their were two additional seats located at the rear of the Observation that were only a little less plu***han the other parlor seats that were sold as parlor seating when all other parlor seats were sold out. In actual fact the two observations actually sold 31-parlor seats not counting the five in the parlor drawing room located beneath the dome with its own private bathroom. In actual fact rare was the occasion when all 31 of these seats were not sold out as parlor car seating. All three types of dome cars had 24-non revenue seats in the domes.
The 54-revenue seat Vista-Dome coach’s featured 20-reclining seats forward of the dome, a large Women’s and Men’s restrooms were located beneath the dome. To the rear of the dome was located another 34-reclining seats.
The other Vista-Dome coach carried in each VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR featured a Hostess room on the right side of the car forward on the main level. To the rear of the small Hostess room was 18-seats on the main level forward of the dome. Beneath the dome of these cars was a crew dayroom with 4-chairs and locker with a crew restroom annex. A small pair of passenger restrooms occupied the remaining space beneath the dome. To the rear of the dome on the cars main level were 32 –reclining seats, and a small conductors office.
The trains originally operated with two flat top cars as well one a 48-seat dining car the other a baggage-buffet 39-seat lounge car, bringing the original consists to seven cars each.
The VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS entered service December 19, 1947 becoming the first Vista-Dome trains in the world to enter scheduled service. Each train set would complete a round trip daily between Chicago and Minneapolis. In the mornings they operated as the MORNING VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS and in the afternoons as the AFTERNOON VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 54-REVENUE SEAT COACHES Budd Company July – October 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

4725 SILVER ISLAND

4726 SILVER RIVER

4727 SILVER STREAM

4728 SILVER WAVE

4729 SILVER SCENE

4730 SILVER VISION

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME CREW ROOMS 50-REVENUE SEAT COACHES Budd Company October 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

4723 SILVER BLUFF

4725 SILVER GLADE

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 31-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November – December 1947 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS)

360 SILVER VIEW

361 SILVER VISTA

The following is a list of the two consists of the initial VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS.

800 SILVER BUFFET
Baggage-Buffet 39-seat Lounge Car
4726 SILVER RIVER
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4727 SILVER STREAM
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4728 SILVER WAVE
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-Revenue seat Coach
4723 SILVER BLUFF
24-seat Vista-Dome 50-Revenue seat Coach
197 SILVER FEAST
48-seat Dining Car
360 SILVER VIEW
24-seat Vista-Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 31-seat Parlor Observation

801 SILVER SALON
Baggage Buffet 39-seat Lounge Car
4729 SILVER SCENE
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4725 SILVER ISLAND
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4730 SILVER VISION
24-seat Vista-Dome 54-revenue seat Coach
4724 SILVER GLADE
24-seat Vista-Dome 50-revenue seat Coach
196 SILVER SALVER
48-seat Dining Car
361 SILVER VISTA
24-seat Vista-Dome 5-seat parlor Drawing Room 31-seat Parlor Observation

The CB&Q along with the D&RGW and WP ordered the most famous dome equipped streamliners of all in October 1945 two months after the CB&Q ordered the first two VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR streamliners. This second order for Vista-Dome cars was for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR, the train that would become a legend in its own right, America”s first cruise train
Each of the six VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR train sets were initially eleven cars in length; five of those cars were domes. Each VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR initially carried four types of different domes per consist, a women & children’s Vista Dome Coach, standard Vista Dome coaches, Vista Dome Buffet Lounge crew Dormitory and Vista-Dome 3-DBR 1 DR Bar Lounge and Lounge observation.
The first Vista-Dome 46-leg-rest seat coach in each of the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR consists was a designated women and Children’s car. The forward 18-seat coach area had a passageway door beneath the dome just forward of the men’s restroom to segregate this part of the car from the rest of the car. The remainder of these cars seated the standard 24 in the dome and 24 leg-rest seats on the main level aft of the dome. There were six of these cars built by Budd for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. Two were CB&Q cars, one a D&RGW car and the remaining three WP owned. It is believed the cars lasted about two years as designated Women and Children’s car before the passageway door was removed and they were operated just as if they were any other dome coach in the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG-REST COACHES (designated Women & Children’s) Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered January – February 1948

4721 SILVER SADDLE

4722 SILVER STIRRUP

D&RGW
Delivered February 1948

1108 SILVER PONY

WP
Delivered February – March 1948

815 SILVER SCHOONER

816 SILVER SCOUT

817 SILVER THISTLE

The remaining eighteen Vista-Dome Coaches were 46-Leg-Rest Seat Cars without the passageway door beneath the dome. Eighteen Leg-rest seats forward of the dome on the main level and 28 on the main level aft of the depressed center beneath the dome. One each men’s and ladies restroom was located beneath the 24-seat Vista Dome. These restrooms were quite large with make-up area and bench in the ladies room, two sinks, and one separate toilet room, the men’s restroom provided two toilets with a bench and 4 sinks. This became the standard Budd arrangement for long distance dome coaches that would follow over the ensuing years. Since the Vista Dome Coaches were delivered to the operating roads before the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR entered service they were assigned to the heavyweight EXPOSITION FLYER between Chicago and Oakland. The EXPOSITION FLYER would be discontinued with the inauguration of the VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered March – April 1948

4716 SILVER BRIDLE

4717 SILVER LODGE

4718 SILVER LARIAT

4719 SILVER RANCH

4720 SILVER RIFLE

D&RGW
Delivered March – April 1948

1106 SILVER COLT

1107 SILVER MUSTANG

1108 SILVER BRONCO

WP
Delivered March – May 1948

811 SILVER DOLLAR

812 SILVER FEATHER

813 SILVER PALACE

814 SILVER SAGE

The fourth dome in the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was the Vista-Dome Buffet Lounge Crew Dormitory car. The dome seated the usual 24 beneath the glass, in the short forward section of the cars main level was the Coffee Shop with seating for 19 arranged around four tables for four and one table for three. Beneath the dome was a 7-seat lounge area and the small kitchen pantry that served the Coffee Shop and Lounge area. The dome level of these cars was restricted to use by sleeping car passengers only who reached the dome by using the passageway alongside the Crew Dormitory space. To the rear of the dome on the main level was the crew dormitory area providing space for 15 in the main bunk area for the Dining car and Buffet lounge crew. To the rear of the general dormitory were two bedrooms, one for the dining car steward, and the other for the Zephyrette. The Zephyrette was the train hostess assigned to the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS. Initially these stewardesses were either College graduates or registered nurses, later these requirements were relaxed when many would be stewardesses turned to the airlines instead of the trains for work. The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR Zephyrettes were home based in Oakland.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 19-SEAT COFFEE SHOP 7-SEAT LOUNGE BUFFET-PANTRY 19-CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered October-November 1948

250 SILVER CLUB

251 SILVER LOUNGE

252 SILVER ROUNDUP

D&RGW
Delivered November 1948

1140 SILVER SHOP

WP
Delivered November 1948

831 SILVER CHALET

832 SILVER HOSTEL

The last car and last Vista-Dome in each VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR was among the most beautiful cars ever built for railroad use. These cars besides having a dome that seated the standard 24, featured three Double Bedrooms one Drawing Room all forward of the dome on the main level. Beneath the dome was a twelve-passenger lounge with seating at tables for eight at tables for two and one table for four and bar. To the rear of the depressed area of the car was a lounge with seating for 18 one of these at a small writing desk providing complimentary VISTA DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR stationary. This latter lounge was in the rounded observation end. There were six of these cars built initially for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. The Drawing Room Annex in each of these cars was retrofitted with a shower in 1951 after the cars had been in service for about two years.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 3-DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BAR 12-SEAT LOUNGE 18-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company Plan: 9511 Lots: 9659-019-020-021 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

CB&Q
Delivered December 1948

375 SILVER HORIZON

376 SILVER PENTHOUSE

377 SILVER SOLARIUM

D&RGW
Delivered December 1948

1145 SILVER SKY

WP
Delivered December 1948

881 SILVER CRESCENT

882 SILVER PLANET


TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 4:54 PM
[bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup]


”Our” Place has a new award recognizing patrons of the bar for contributions made during a given month. The award is known as the MVP – Most Valuable Patron.


The April winner is: LoveDomes Lars!!! - first recipient of the MVP!




Congratulations, Lars – all food ‘n drink is on the house between the hours of 2 – 4 AM. Oh, I see we’re closed then – sorry ‘bout that! [swg]

In the gift basket accompanying the handsomely designed and framed Award Certificate you will find “chits” for food ‘n drink at ”Our” Place redeemable at your pleasure. [tup][tup][tup]


The criteria used for the MVP selection:
(not necessarily in order shown)

1. Quality of Posts
(offering info relevant to the “theme” of the bar: Classic Trains)

2. Inclusiveness of Posts
(recognizing the efforts of others)

3. Acknowledgment of others
(addressing the questions, comments & contributions of others)

4. Banter at the bar
(engaging in good natured exchanges of humor)

5. Dependability of Posts
(regular participation and relevance to events taking place)

6. Behind the scenes support
(Emails, help with organizing events, etc.)

7. Special events support
(Birthday Bashes - Sunday Photo Posting Day - Encore! Saturday, etc.)

8. Number of Posts
(self explanatory)


It wasn’t an easy selection as several others were “neck ‘n neck” for consideration!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



[bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup][bow][tup]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 5:30 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and Congratulations to Lars. Well deserved. Time for another CR and a round for the house.

Don't give up on the CB&Q theme for the day . Will complete the Domes and thats it for me this day.

CB&Q Streamlined Domes Part Two
By Al

The CB&Q Aurora Shops were busy once again in July 1949 rebuilding another prewar Budd built streamlined coach into another of the so-called pattern dome cars identical to the earlier 4714 SILVER DOME. This second pattern dome 4709-SILVER CASTLE another coach originally constructed by Budd in June 1940 retained its name and number. After being rebuilt to a dome the 4709 SILVER CASTLE was assigned to one of the VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. In fact the CB&Q operated both of their pattern domes in the VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. No picture has ever surfaced of the two pattern domes operating in the same consist while in CB&Q or BN service. But pictures exist of the two TWIN ZEPHYRS passing with each having one pattern dome in each consist.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 34-REVENUE SEAT COACH Budd Company June 1940 Rebuilt to Dome in CB&Q Aurora Shop July 1949 (Rebuilt for and assigned to VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYR)

4709 SILVER CASTLE

In December 1952 the CB&Q received a single 24-seat Vista-Dome 3-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing Room Bar 12-seat lounge 18- seat lounge Observation from Budd lettered for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. This car was delivered with a shower in the annex of the drawing room. The shower feature had been added to the drawing room annexes of the earlier Vista-Dome Sleeper lounge Observations built for the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR in 1951.
The CB&Q purchased this car and three sleeping cars for the VISTA–DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR pool so two 10-6 sleeping cars, one 16-section sleeping car and one of the Vista-Dome Sleeper lounge Observations could be utilized in their Chicago layover to operate to Lincoln overnight on the rear of the VISTA-DOME AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR. These cars would then return to Chicago the following night and after arrival the next morning in Chicago the four cars would be assigned to that afternoons departing westbound VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR. This was the last round end observation ever built for the CB&Q all future Observations built for ZEPHYRS would be blunt ended with diaphragms fitted for use mid-train if necessary.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1-DRAWING ROOM BAR 12-SEAT LOUNGE 18-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Budd Company December 1952 Plan: 9433 Lot: 9659-112 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR)

378 SILVER LOOKOUT

The next CB&Q Vista-Domes delivered were four in 1952 for the startup of a new daylight ZEPHYR between Chicago and Kansas City made possible by the new Kansas City shortcut. The old route left the direct line to St. Joseph at Cameron Junction and proceeded to Kansas City. This route was 490 miles from Chicago to Kansas City and the track south of Cameron Junction was built for anything but fast running. The new Kansas City shortcut left the St. Joseph mainline at Brookfield and headed over new high-speed trackage on a far more direct route to Kansas City. The route cut 24 miles from the old route but had none of the slow running of the old route. This new shortcut permitted the CB&Q to at last compete with the Santa Fe between Kansas City and Chicago. The CB&Q was not concerned about their overnight service as it departed at a late hour and arrived at the other city in the early morning in time for a full day’s business. The overnight service did not require the speed of a daytime operation but never the less the CB&Q was going to upgrade the overnight AMERICAN ROYAL to ZEPHYR status at the same time. Some of the equipment operated in the new daytime Chicago to Kansas City service would also be utilized in the overnight VISTA-DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYR as well. The new daytime train was named the VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR and each of this trains two-train sets was comprised of six cars each as follows:

1601 SILVER MAIL
Baggage 30’Railway Post Office car
4702 SILVER SPRING
52-Revenue seat Coach
4732 SILVER SHIELD
50-Revenue seat Coach
320 SILVER GARDEN
24-seat Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet Crew Dormitory 24-seat Coach
199 SILVER INN
48-seat Dining Car
366 SILVER TOWER
24-seat Vista Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 27- Seat Parlor Observation


1604 SILVER POUCH
Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office car
4715 SILVER CASCADE
52-Revenue seat Coach
4733 SILVER SPEAR
50-Revenue seat Coach
321 SILVER PATIO
24-seat Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet Crew Dormitory 24- seat Coach
200 SILVER MANOR
48-seat Dining Car
365 SILVER TERRACE
24-seat Vista Dome 5-seat Parlor Drawing Room 27-seat Parlor Observation

The Vista Dome Coffee Shop Lounge Buffet crew Dormitory coaches operated in both the new VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS and new VISTA-DOME AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS.
The interiors of these two cars featured the 24-Vista Dome seats and the forward end of these cars featured a 24 revenue seat coach section and a small Crew Dormitory space (3-Crew) just ahead of the cars depressed center. Beneath the dome was a large Buffet and six seat Lounge with one table for four and one table for two to the rear of the depressed area of the car was a 17-seat Coffee Shop arranged with two tables for four, and three tables for three located on the cars main level, with the stairs leading to the dome.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 24-REVENUE SEAT COACH 3-CREW DORMITORY BUFFET LOUNGE COFFEE SHOP CARS Budd Company December 1952 (Built for and assigned to KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS and AMERICAN ROYAL ZEPHYRS)

320 SILVER GARDEN

321 SILVER PATIO

The other dome car assigned to each VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR was a Vista-Dome Parlor Observation. These were the first of four blunt ended observations Budd would build for the CB&Q. The CB&Q Vista-Dome blunt end cars featured windows on either side of the rear door fitted with a diaphragm. This afforded the passengers viewing to the rear. In many ways it was better than the view from the rounded end observations as the view through the glass was not distorted as the panes on the rounded end observations often were.
The interiors of these two cars featured the standard 24-seats in the Vista-Dome, forward of the dome on the main level was seven Parlor seats. Beneath the dome was a 5-seat Parlor drawing Room with private annex and a pair of restrooms for the other parlor car patrons. In the main level area to the rear of the dome was another parlor lounge area with 20-Parlor seats.
In the 1960’s the VISTA-DOME KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS ran combined with the NEBRASKA ZEPHYRS between Chicago and Galesburg both eastbound and westbound. This was probably the only assignment these cars operated in that they were used mid-train.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 5-SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM 27-SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATIONS Budd Company November – December 1952 (Built for and assigned to KANSAS CITY ZEPHYRS)

365 SILVER TERRACE

366 SILVER TOWER

The next new Vista-Domes to arrive were ten 46-leg rest seat cars for the NP VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED fully painted in the new Raymond Loewy two-tone green with white separation stripe scheme. The Budd built domes delivered to the NP were smooth sided cars not fluted side panels as on all previous domes built by Budd. The CB&Q owned two of these cars as they operated the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED between Chicago and St. Paul daily in each direction. The NP assigned these Vista-domes to replace two of that trains 56-revenue seat Leg Rest Coaches. The NP train-lined a flat top Coach between the dome coaches in order to assure the passengers a more unobstructed view. This was certainly something that would have benefited other train operating with domes. . The NP operated the new Vista-Dome coaches two per consist with one a Chicago – Portland car the other a through Chicago – Seattle car.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-REVENUE SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company July – August 1954 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED)

NP

550-556

CB&Q

557,558

SP&S

559

Between September and November 1954 the NP received 10 Vista-Dome Sleeping cars for the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. These like the earlier Vista-Dome coaches were assigned in pairs to the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED. The interiors of these cars featured 4 Roomettes 4 Double Bedrooms and 4 Duplex Single Rooms beneath the Dome. The revenue space was for a maximum 16 passengers, not much when the cars they replaced had revenue space for 22. This gave the NP premier trains two Vista-Domes between Chicago and Portland and two between Chicago and Seattle. Rare were Dome Sleeping cars that were not observations, only the B&O would own three dome sleeping cars originally built for the C&O CHESSIE. In fact their was only a total of fifteen built and the one constructed for the TRAIN OF TOMORROW spent its entire revenue career operating in Parlor car service for the UP between Portland and Seattle. For further information on these Vista-Dome Sleeping cars see the NP chapter.

24-SEAT VISTA –DOME 4-ROOMETTES 4-DUPLEX SINGLE ROOMS 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Budd Company Plan: 9535 Lot: 9669-141 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED)

CB&Q

304,305

SP&S

306

NP

307-313

The next domes to arrive that the CB&Q owned were three 46-leg-rest seat Vista-Domes built as part of an order for sixteen for the GN EMPIRE BUILDER. They were delivered by Budd and entered service in May 1955. The GN assigned three to each consist of the EMPIRE BUILDER replacing three 48-seat Coaches in each consist. Unfortunately like the VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR they were all coupled together. Two of the Great Domes as the GN referred to them were assigned to Chicago – Seattle service and the third was assigned to Chicago – Portland service operating via the SP&S between Spokane and Portland in each direction.. As with the NP domes these cars were flat-sided stainless steel cars from Budd painted in the Omaha Orange, Pullman Green scheme with Dulux Gold separation stripes and lettering of the Great Northern.

24-SEAT GREAT DOME 46-REVENUE SEAT LEG-REST COACHES Budd Company May 1955 (Built for and assigned to GREAT DOME EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1320 – 1331

SP&S

1332

CB&Q

1333-1335

In October 1955 Budd delivered six full-length dome Lounge cars to the GN for the Pullman passengers of the GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER. They were coupled behind the GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER 36-seat dining car in each train set. The upper level of these huge cars seated 75, 57 in single and double seats for viewing and an 18-seat lounge. The lounge centered beneath the dome seated 32 with a large Buffet. An electric dumbwaiter operated between the lower level buffet and the upper level lounge area to serve those passengers drinks from the lower level. These cars operated on six wheel trucks to spread their weight. The cars were smooth side stainless steel cars from Budd and as with the earlier short domes were fully painted and lettered for the EMPIRE BUILDER. After the full compliment of three short domes and one full dome was added to the EMPIRE BUILDERS they were advertised as the Incomparable GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER. The GREAT-DOME EMPIRE BUILDER was the only train prior to Amtrak and Auto-Train to operate with both short domes and a full-dome in each consist. For further details of these cars see the Great Northern chapter.

75-SEAT GREAT DOME BUFFET 32 SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company October 1955 (Built for and assigned to GREAT DOME EMPIRE BUILDER)

GN

1390 GLACIER VIEW

1391 OCEAN VIEW

1392 MOUNTAIN VIEW

1393 LAKE VIEW

1394 PRAIRIE VIEW

CB&Q

1395 RIVER VIEW

The CB&Q stunned the railroad world of the day with the announcement in February 1955 they were ordering two new twelve car trains as replacements for the 1936 streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS. These would be the last full service trains built for overnight service in the United States before the Amtrak Superliners. The new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS were actually fourteen car trains when they entered service October 28, 1956.
Unusual were the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR trains, as they not only carried first class sleeping car passengers but Parlor Car passengers as well. This was true of the 1936 versions of the DENVER ZEPHYR and the same was offered in the 1956 versions of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS. Eastbound the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS offered Parlor car seating between Denver and Lincoln, while westbound parlor car space was sold between Chicago and Omaha. These new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided reserved Coach seating for 146, the Slumbercoaches provided space for another 80 coach passengers. The first class section of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided parlor space for 16 passengers and sleeping car space for 88. The Colorado Springs section of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS provided one coach with 50-seats, a 24-seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Crew Dormitory, one Slumbercoach with economy sleeping space for 40, and a 10-roomette 6-double bedroom sleeping car with first class sleeping space for 22. This gave the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS space for 330 passengers between Chicago and Omaha, while its eastbound counterpart provided space for 330 between Denver and Lincoln.
The two head end car in each consist were built by Budd for other CB&Q trains. Being stainless steel they looked as good as the new Budd built cars fresh from the factory that inaugurated the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS. The new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS not only operated between Chicago and Denver in each direction nightly, operating four through cars beyond Denver to Colorado Springs added to the rear of the D&RGW ROYAL GORGE between the two Colorado cities daily in each direction. Each consist of the VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS were assigned three Vista-Domes, a 46 seat leg rest coach, a dormitory buffet lounge Car, and a parlor buffet Observation bringing up the markers. The two initial consists are listed below with all four Slumbercoaches listed even though two were not delivered until November 1956. The consists had not changed since their inaugural, the two new Slumbercoaches were the Denver cars. Through cars to and from Colorado Springs are shown in parenthesis.

1601 SILVER MAIL
Baggage 30’ Railway Post Office Car
906 ARGO
Baggage Car
4741 SILVER REIN
50-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4736 SILVER BRAND
24-seat Vista-Dome 46-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4901 SILVER SLUMBER
24-Single Room 8-Double Room Slumbercoach
4737 SILVER BIT
50-Revenue Seat Leg-Rest Coach
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
254 SILVER KETTLE
24-Seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Lunch Counter Crew Dormitory Car
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
4902 SILVER REST
24-Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
493 SILVER RIDGE
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Chicago – Colorado Springs)
201 SILVER CHEF
48-Seat Dining Car
453 SILVER SWAN
5-Compartment 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
486 SILVER PLATEAU
10-Roomette 6-Double bedroom Sleeping Car
487 SILVER HOLLOW
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
236 SILVER VERANDA
24-Seat Vista-Dome 11-Seat Parlor 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room Bar Lounge-Lounge Observation


1604 SILVER POUCH
Baggage 30” Railway Post Office Car
907 OLYMPUS
Baggage Car
4739 SILVER HALTER
50-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4735 SILVER BUCKLE
24-Seat Vista-Dome 46-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
4900 SILVER SIESTA
24-Single Room 8-Double Room Slumbercoach
4738 SILVER BLANKET
50-Seat Leg-Rest Coach
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
253 SILVER CUP
24-Seat Vista-Dome Coffee Shop Lunch Counter Crew Dormitory Car
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
4903 SILVER REPOSE
24-Single Room 8 Double Room Slumbercoach
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
485 SILVER TERRAIN
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Colorado Springs – Chicago)
202 SILVER TUREEN
48-Seat Dining Car
454 SILVER PELICAN
5-Compartment 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
491 SILVER RAVINE
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
488 SILVER BOULDER
10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
235 SILVER CHATEAU
24-Seat Vista-Dome 11-Seat Parlor 5 Seat Parlor Drawing Room Bar Lounge – Lounge Observation

The first Vista Dome in each of the new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS was a 46-seat Leg-Rest Coach the same as they had built for the VISTA–DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYRS in 1948 by Budd. These would be the last fluted side stainless steel domes of this type built by Budd. They would construct one smooth sided painted Vista-Dome 46-Leg-Rest Seat Coach for the VISTA-DOME NORTH COAST LIMITED in December 1957 along with another of their Vista-Dome Sleeping Cars. These would be the final two short Domes delivered by Budd.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 46-SEAT LEG REST COACHES Budd Company August 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

4735 SILVER BUCKLE

4736 SILVER BRAND

The second Vista-Dome in each new VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYR featured the standard 24 seats in the dome, forward of the dome on the main level of the cars was a 19-seat Coffee Shop made up of four tables for four and one table for three. Beneath the dome was a table for four and an 8 seat Lunch Counter. To the rear of the depressed section beneath the dome was the Kitchen, stairway to the dome level and seventeen Crew dormitory space, a steward’s bedroom completed the cars floor plan. These cars operated as through cars to Colorado Springs.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 19 SEAT COFFEE SHOP 8 SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 18-CREW DORMITORY CARS Budd Company October 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

253 SILVER CUP

254 SILVER KETTLE

The last car in each VISTA–DOME DENVER ZEPHYR was a Vista-Dome blunt end observation for first class passengers only. These cars featured the standard 24-seats in the Vista-Dome with an 11-seat Parlor section on the main level forward of the dome along with a 5-seat Parlor drawing room. Beneath the Dome was the “Colorado Room” a 12 seat Cocktail Lounge with Bar. The rear of the cars main level was occupied by a 13-seat lounge one at a desk. This completed the Vista-Dome deliveries to the CB&Q.

24-SEAT VISTA-DOME 11-SEAT PARLOR 5 SEAT PARLOR DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 12-SEAT LOUNGE 13 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company September 1956 (Built for and assigned to VISTA-DOME DENVER ZEPHYRS)

235 SILVER CHATEAU

236 SILVER VERANDA

The CB&Q owned one Full Length Budd built dome and thirty-six short domes including the two pattern domes they constructed from flattop coaches in their own Aurora shops. Only the Union Pacific and Burlington Northern would own more before Amtrak. The Union Pacific owned forty-four and Burlington Northern owned seventy-three.
All CB&Q domes passed into Burlington Northern ownership following the March 1970 merger of the CB&Q-GN-NP-SP&S-FW&D-C&S.
For further details of the history of the CB&Q domes see the Burlington Northern chapter.

TTFN Al
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Posted by pwolfe on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 5:55 PM
Hi Tom and all

A pint of the usual and a round for another great Theme Day.[tup].

Before the theme day may I catch up on yesterdays posts.

DOUG Another fascinating article from the Vintage Rails. The two writers have captured the magic of steam for a youngster. "Any chance of a look Mister" would sometimes get a nod and invite into the magic world of the footplate, more often on the loco on the local service than on one of the pacifics on the main line expresses as the crew would be busy preparing the engine for the next leg of the journey. Life seem to move at a slower pace back then.

NICK Thanks for the descriptions of the pics. [tup].It would be interesting to know why BR kept hold of and more importantly kept running the steam locos on the V of R, after so many lines had closed in the 60s and they had got rid of standard guage steam in 1968. There must be an interesting story there.

MIKE Great links again[tup]. Good shots of Davenport, which brought memories to TOM and the loco named after the city. There does not seem to that many named locos over here [?].
The newspaper article on the SN is a good read thanks. I was able to view the SN links you sent me but when I had a look later it would not let me back on. I will try again.

Another great Theme Day TOM A railroad that always made a profit must be quite a rare thing.
This is really a great way to learn about the great RR companies of the past in N America [^][tup][tup][tup].

As well as Tom's info, many thanks AL for the Zephyr cars, the ones with the showers built in, what a civilised way to travel, The Denver Zephers with there Slumbercoaches seemed a good effort to combat compition from the air-lines. I would have thought though that the publicity people could have come up with a better name for a Zephyr service than Ak- Sar- Ben.
Thanks CM3 for the info on some of the other CB&Q services. The link to the Mid West bridges is a good one [tup]. You cansee how that bridge cost so much in 1917.

TED Good to see you. I trust the check up goes OK.

LARS Thanks for the heads up for the 9th.

TOM I will gladly be the Can- Am promotion agent no pay neccessary just let the beer warm up a little[:)].
I see in the CB&Q post it mentions the first railway Post Office a replica of the car uesd on this service is at the Pattee museum in St Joseph MO.
No one has ever accused me of being Norman Einstein [:D]

Just caught your post TOM. WELL DONE LARS ON THE MVP AWARDand congratulations it is very well deserved[^][wow][yeah][tup][tup][tup].

AL Thanks for the round I will read the Streamlined domes in a while PETE.
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 7:09 PM
Good Evenin’ Gents!


First, B4 I completely forget – let me address a comment made by Wolfman Pete regarding the name of a Burlington Zephyr train, “Ak-Sar-Ben.” Check out this URL http://www.aksarben.org/the-knights/history.htm and let me know when you’ve uncovered the “secret!” [swg]

Many congrats to our friend, LoveDomes Lars for being the first recipient of the bar’s MVP Award! [tup][tup][tup]

You are simply amazin’ Al when your “switch is flicked,” there’s no stopping the flow of great info! [tup][tup][tup]

Pete A fine inclusive Post, filled with info and a pleasure to read – thanx! [tup][tup] If you are indeed our “Promotions Manager,” then let’s see if you can come back from “Merry Olde” with at least one new customer for us! [yeah] [swg]

Lars “Ditto” regarding your fine report this afternoon! [tup][tup] Considering the efforts you put forth in trying to get support for our 1st Year Anniversary – the last B’day Bash, Sunday Photo Posting Days and our ENCORE! Saturdays – I’d say you can skip a Tuesday “theme” now ‘n then! [swg]

Thanx to all who bought rounds! Ka-ching, ka-ching – “music” to my ears! [swg]


REMINDER! Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


BE SMARTER, use the “Reload/Refresh” as soon as you get to ”Our” Place It’s the only way to get the most current Posts!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:18 PM
Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for one more CR anjd a round for the House.

Would not be fair to have given tribute to the Santa Fe and not do the same for thr CB&Q.

After all they were the first to place a diesel powered streamliner in service the Pioneer Zephyr.

This train was the first constucted of shotwelded stainless steel. After several million miles of service the train was retired to the Museum of Science and Industry in 1960. It was rebuilt a couple of years back and it was found that not a single shotweld had failed.

The CB&Q introduced the first streamlined Dome car Silver Dome. They also were the first RR to place Vista Dome streamliners in service the Vista Dome Twin Zephyrs.

The first RR to introduce Gallery commuter cars.

Introduced with partners D&RGW and WP America's first and only streamlined cruise train operated by Railroads the Vista Dome California Zephyr with the major scenic attractions Feather River Canyon and the Colorado Rockies viewed in Daylight both directions.

Introduced the last full service streamlined trains in the US prior to Amtrak the 1956 Vista Dome Denver Zephyrs.The only trains in America that featured Coaches, Slumbercoaches, Sleeping and Parlor car services in the same trains.

And as previously mentioned introduced the Slumbercoach to the public.

Not only were they loyal to Budd but they were the only Railroad in America whose Budd built cars were the deluxe models with full skirting.

Truly a class act wouldn't you agree.

TTFN Al

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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:20 PM
PS: I am sending a completed manuscript on the CB&Q streamliners and their cars to a publisher as this is written.
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Posted by pwolfe on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 9:37 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please LEON.

AL As you say the CB&Q was a class act as were your posts on the streamliners and cars today.
Good luck with the publisher[tup][tup][tup].

TOM I was going to edit my post to read what a good name Ak-Sar- Ben was after reading your link but you would have caught me out. Is the secret Nebraska[?]
No wonder no one calls me Norman Einstein.[:-^].

Glad you liked the post . I thought the job of promotion manager involved studying the CAN-AM and drinking your beer. A job I think I could manage quite well.[swg].

Seriously though I do ask Alan to drop in at Our Place.
Another good day at the bar Tom. PETE.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 10:40 PM
Leon my good man a stiff CR for me and a round for the house seems it's still a bit full which is a good thing.

Lets see where to begin, first off I'm not dead just snowed under at work,crew evaluation time and me with a week off ( next week in may ) means they need to be done this week <ugh> Mind you the paper work is much better than unloading trucks etc.[swg]

Tom What can I say another fine infotacular tuesday afternoon and evening. The Mighty "Q" seems to have flicked many a switch today good stuff [tup]I did recieve all your emails, responded to those requiring an answer,looks as though alls good for next week [tup][tup]

BIGBEAR(Ted) I can hear the excitment in your typing [:D] Only 8 more sleeps and then all hell fun breaks loose. Hope the big T is ready for the likes of the three of us [swg]. Hope you get the big [tup] at your latest "tire" rotation downa t the VA

Doug Fine fine article yesterday good struff as per usual. those old mag articles have some really good stuff in them.Did your open house go well [?]

Lars Congradufriginlations ! LOL. It couldn't have happened to a better guy and patron at this here bar. Hopefully this new dust collector has a nice prominent wall spot in your recroom. I do so wi***hat you could have weasled your way to Toronto, oh the tales that could be told, and made if the four of us ever got/get together! Next time fer sure [tup] Hopefully all the late night shifts begin to ebb, I miss being in the same time zone post wise as the rest of you.

Nick What ho ole chap, thanks for the captions for a second week of gtreat photo's from your side o the pond. Glad you lied those old Sudbury Streetcar shots too !I had a couple incedents with odd behaviour by the forums server the last couple days as well. I never got locked out but it kept kicking me out,but keeping me signed in at the same time. Summer forum gremlins I'm guessing.

Al Wow tell us how you really feel about the CB&Q, my heads still spinning reading those fine posts [bow][bow]. Good luck with the publisher,let us know how it all pans put sir.

CM3 Hmmm baseball and a fine contribution to todays events all good sir. I think your other half must have a guardianb of some sort,close encounters with anykind of transport truck don't usually bode well for any car, let alone a small one. At least you got a convertable out of it [:O]

Pete Hey glad to see you in the ole bar several times today.I think you have been railroaded into that promotions manager position [swg]LOLI know that you are going over for a wedding so, your photographic equipment is going to get a work out on trains as well as weddings right [?] Sorry just trying to scare up more new and interesting Brit rail shots for the upcomming Sunday's this summer [:D]

Mike Great photo's and urls as per usual sir [tup] How do you do it [?] You must have a pretty good search engine working on your computer, keep up the good work.[tup]

well that should catch me up. I'll be back in a bit with a bit of CB&Q gold that I've found.

Rob

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 10:48 PM
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

Pete, you must be referring to Joe Theismann of the Fighting Irish, who said, "Brilliant isn't a word that should be used in football. Football players aren't brilliant. Brilliant is for guys like Norman Einstein."

Al, with so many cars named for the Lone Ranger's horse they should have a SILVER HEELS for Tonto.

CM3, glad you liked the panorama. There's plenty more at the old www.loc.gov

WHITE RIVER JUNCTION
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a10000/6a10700/6a10795r.jpg

LAS VEGAS
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a13000/6a13900/6a13942r.jpg

DAWSON CITY
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a23000/6a23400/6a23416r.jpg

STATEN ISLAND
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a19000/6a19600/6a19655r.jpg

KEOKUK, IOWA (on the CB&Q) where Andrew Carnegie built IC bridge.
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a04000/6a04600/6a04649r.jpg

BURLINGTON, if you can bear it, hometown of William Frawley, who is 119 and lives in TV Land
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a05000/6a05000/6a05022r.jpg

Hi-o SILVER CHARGER, locomotive named for General Pershing's horse.
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/CBQ/CB&Q-9908_EMD_SILVER-CHARGER.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cbq_silvercharger2.jpg interior view

GALLERY OF ZEPHERS with captions, PBS American Experience.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/streamliners/gallery/index.html

MARK TWAIN Zee article
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/mt-zephyr.htm enlargeable photos

The KC Zee
http://www.billselleck.net/Images/galleries/mystuff/depot1.jpg

CB&Q Passengers at Union Station 1943
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8d13000/8d13100/8d13160r.jpg

CB&Q Boxcar at San Bernardino 1943
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/fsa/8d27000/8d27600/8d27653r.jpg

AURORA ROUNDHOUSE & SHOPS
1859 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/il/il0300/il0390/photos/062410pv.jpg
1898 http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/il/il0300/il0390/photos/062415pr.jpg
BN http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/il/il0300/il0390/color/572103cv.jpg

AURORA excursion run 1997
http://64.246.11.82/images/f/File0142.jpg.47576.jpg

STEAM & DOME excursion
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/CBQ/03_Backing%20into%20Chicago%20station.jpg
http://www.cvrma.org/pictures/CBQ/04_Run%20by%20-%201.jpg

FIVE OF A KIND
http://www.burlingtonroute.com/gallery/albums/Locomotives/cb_q_locomotives.sized.jpeg

TY COBB
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a29000/6a29500/6a29516r.jpg

ROGERS HORNSBY
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a29000/6a29300/6a29303r.jpg
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 11:07 PM
Well the day ain't done yet so Leon another round if you would be so kind sir.We've had quite the infofest on the mighty "Q" today. Another triumph for our esteemed propriator to be sure. I'm glad to see so many ahve jumped in with some really good info.The next is some "stuff" on early CB&Q passenger power that I manges to glean from several wide flung articles in Diesel Era magazine, a good read if you can find them.

The CB&Q was always a big user of early EMD "E" tyupe passenger units, used on most of their long and short distance passenger trains,the next is a few highlights of "E" action on the "Q"

In mid 1939 CB&Q picked up the first of EMC's off the shelf production passenger locomotives E3 822. It was tested on the Twin Zepher the flexibility of this first stand alone ( separate ) locomotive for passenger service which they found was more practical than the articulated pioneer zepher loco/car combinations. The next E units they purchased were custom built E5's ( CB&Q / EMC brain storm ) these were E6's custom built with the flutted stainless panesl to match the Budd cars of the Zepher train sets. They also recieved speacial custom built truck skirts never fitted to any other E units built by EMC/EMD. Thes E5's were built between Feb and March of 1940 6 A units and 5 B units. A-B sets 9910 A-B to 9912 A-B operated on the Exhibition Flyer while single A unit 9909 powerd the Aristocrat. The other two stes went to subsiduaries Colorado Southern 9950 A-B and the Fort worth and Denver recieved 9980 A-B. In late 1940 another single E5A 9913 was purchased to power the joint Rock/CB&Q Zepher Rocket.

In june of 1941 four more E5's were purchased to diesilize the Chicago twin Cities Black Hawk. these were A-A sets 9914 A-B and 9915 A-B During the war CB&Q tried to purchase additional E5's but could not due to shortages so the E5's were the last passebger diesels the Q bought until after the war.

Modifications made to the E5's over the years included the removal of the truck skirting in the 40's and in the 50's they recieved nose mounted MU recepticals. wrecks claoimed three of this unique fleet 9914 B , 9915 A and FD&W's 9980. In March 1965 the CB&Q retired the rest of the E5 fleet all traded into GE for new U25 locomotives. The C&S and Remaining FW&D units lasted longer in service till 1967, when passenger service ended on those roads, they were traded to EMD for SD40's. C&S's 9952 A was aquired by the Illinois Railway Museum where it still is today. Any Pictures Doug ?

enjoy Rob

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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 11:11 PM
Hey Mike how are you pull up a stump. More great url's sir and right on topic as per usual simply amazing [bow] If they did have a "Silver Heels" It would have to have CN or CP markings, Jay was originally from Ontario. The Brantford six nations reserve if I remember correctly.

Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 5:27 AM

courtesy: www.trainweb.org

We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


It’s mid-week and a new day! - Join us for breakfast – select a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board. Some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, and of course a large mug of steaming hot, freshly ground and brewed coffee![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Next to hoss rustlin’, curiosity is the most dangerous crime.


Info for the Day:


Railways of Europe #6 –
X2000 of Sweden arrives Thursday!


Railroads from Yesteryear – The Burlington Zephyrs
arrives next Tuesday!


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Model & Toy Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


MVP Award Winners


April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



Comedy Corner

Nearly Always True

"Flashlights are tubular metal containers kept in a flight bag for the purpose of storing dead batteries."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just remember, if you crash because of weather, your funeral will be
held on a sunny day."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advice given to RAF pilots during WWII: "When a prang (crash) seems inevitable, endeavor to strike the softest, cheapest object in the vicinity as slow and gently as possible."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you." - Attributed to Max Stanley (Northrop test pilot)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never fly in the same cockpit with someone braver than you."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime."
- Sign over squadron ops desk at Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ,

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If something hasn't broken on your helicopter, it's about
to."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air.
Do not go near the edges of it.
The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space.
It is much more difficult to fly there."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the test pilot climbs out of the experimental aircraft, having torn off the wings and tail in the crash landing, the cra***ruck arrives, the rescuer sees a bloodied pilot and asks "What happened?".
The pilot's reply: "I don't know, I just got here myself!"
- Attributed to Ray Crandell (Lockheed test pilot)

------------------------------------------------------------------------


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, April 30th thru May 6th: Cobb (1994) starring: Tommy Lee Jones & Robert Wuhl –and- Hoosiers (1986) starring: Gene Hackman, Barbara Hershey & Dennis Hopper. SHORT: Three Little Pigskins (1934).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:[/teal

. . . Sunday, May 7th thru May 13th: City Slickers (1991) starring: Billy Crystal, Jack Palance & Bruno Kirby –and- Crocodile Dundee (1986) starring: Paul Hogan & Linda Kozlowski. [teal]SHORT: Horses’ Collars (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 05:21:15 (320) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 05:25:00 (320) RR from Yesteryear – Ad

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 07:14:28 (320) THEME: Fallen Flag: Burlington Route

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 May 2006, 07:23:12 (320) Right Coast report – Bear style!

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 May 2006, 07:27:52 (320) etc.

(6) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 08:11:17 (320) THEME: CB&Q Streamlined sleeping cars, pt I

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 08:15:53 (320) etc.

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 08:59:57 (320) RR from Yesteryear: Chicago, Burlington & Quincy

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 11:20:35 (320) Acknowledgments & Comments

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 13:45:28 (320) THEME: CB&Q Streamlined sleeping cars, pt II

(11) LoveDomes Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 14:42:38 (320) Lars Report!

(12) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 16:16:05 (320) THEME: CB&Q Streamlined domes, pt I

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 16:54:24 (320) [tup] 1st MVP Award!

(14) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 17:30:21 (320) [tup]THEME: CB&Q Streamlined domes, pt II

(15) pwolfe Pete Posted: 02 May 2006, 17:55:43 (321) [tup]Wolfman’s Howling Inclusive Post!

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 May 2006, 19:09:41 (321) [tup] Acknowledgments, etc.

(17) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 20:18:55 (321) CB&Q Tribute

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 02 May 2006, 20:20:52 (321) Post Script

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 02 May 2006, 21:37:17 (321) [tup] Inclusive Post, Wolfman style!

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 May 2006, 22:40:29 (321) [tup] Inclusive Post, Count Robulla style!

(21) wanswheel Mike Posted: 02 May 2006, 22:48:38 (321) Return of the URLMEister

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 May 2006, 23:07: (321) THEME: CB&Q

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 May 2006, 23:11:54 (321) for Mike


[tup] denotes acknowledgment of MVP

That’s it! [tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:27 AM
Good Morning Kapitan Tom and Breakfast Clubers! [swg]


What’s to say[?] Another day, another award! [wow] So, I’m in the ”Our” Place history book, huh[?] An honor indeed, and most surprising. This came “out of the blue for me, didn’t have a clue that such an award was in the making.

Many THANKS to you, Proprietor Tom – and I’d like to thank my producer, Wille Sutton without whose funding this effort would never have been possible; my director, Willie Schumaker without whose determination to reach the finish line this could not have been possible, and of course, my hero, Willie Mays without whose skill, determination and genuine love of the game, I would never have been able to hit it out of the park. And, to my great aunt, Ingrid, my uncle Børge, my . . . . [swg]

I truly appreciate the recognition from those of you who picked up on the MVP – THANKS! [tup][tup][tup]

There’s no way I believe I’m in the company of guys like Doug – Rob ‘n Pete when it comes to meeting that criteria for the award! [wow] Then of course there’s Coalminer3 (I’m not Shane!) coal-what’s-his-face! who has been providing countless Monday thru Friday posts since Moby *** was a minnow. And of course, passengerfan Al with those facts-filled, data heavy Steamliners! Actually, all of you guys are MVPs – and I salute you! [tup][tup][tup]


Time for a bit of breakfast – and I’m buying! Please fix me a #3 from the menu board, another cuppa Joe and I’ll check out the pastries while waiting. Boris ring the bell! [tup]


Looks like a fine fini***o a good day! [tup][tup] Your selection of a “theme” for the RRs from Yesteryear was a sure fire winnAH with one Mr. 20 Fingers! What was his “count” – 7 Posts[?] Not bad, huh[?] Must’ve really flicked his “Bic” big time! [swg]

Al I enjoyed those “tributes” of yours regarding the Santa Fe and Burlington Route! Very well said and certainly made some “points.” By the way – good luck with your book! Do we all get signed copies (promptly upon payment, of course!)[?] [swg]

I like the idea of a “Promotions Manager,” and Wolfman is just the guy to do it! Pretty soon we’ll be hoisting the “Union Jack” right along side “Old Glory!” – blimey! [swg]

Always enjoy your comments, Pete and the bar is going to be a bit lonely during your rather prolonged absence. Maybe we should chip in and purchase a laptop for you along with a connection to the satellite system that enables one to be “connected” no matter where they are! [yeah] That’’ll work . . . [swg]

Once again some fine URLs from the URLMEISTER, himself. I particularly liked that panoramic shot overlooking Tompkinsville, Staten Island! [tup][tup][tup] Surely doesn’t look like that anymore! Bet you remember that scene, Tom – you were just a “mid-shipman” back then, huh[?] [swg]

Also, some fine looking DOMES on the steam excursion train! [tup][tup][tup]

Good to see the emergence of Count Robulla! And emerge he did with some fine on point comments along with a “theme”input. [tup][tup][tup]

Time for me to get my “Model & Toy Trains Day!” post ready for submission. So, I’ll just enjoy my breakfast and stick ‘round for a bit!


Lars
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    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:28 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Lots of good Q material yesterday.

Tom – Historical summaries were most helpful.

Al – More material for the binder. If you thought sorting out C&O cars was a project...at least many of the Burlington cars stayed in the family. We won’t even get into ancestry of BN equipment. BTW, my interest in locomotive history is about the same as yours in cars; it is hard to control, I know.

Lars – MVP – way to go!

Rob – We had been legally apart for a long time, so she got the convertible and the trip to the WV “high risk” pool. The coal trucks are interesting, especially on some of the “roads” here. The new supplement that with rock trucks and log trucks (which are truly scary in confined areas). The WV Turnpike features hazmats and, in, drivers operating rolling condominia who are all from states with no hills or mountainous terrain. I know, Boris will drag me into the “rat room” so I’ll stop.

Wanswheel – Rogers Hornsby – another guy with an attitude...of course he did have a.358 lifetime batting average. He played for both St. Louis teams (our ‘steamed proprietor knows all about this), a year for the Cubs, a year for the Giants and a year for the Boston Braves.

His stats for his year with the Braves (1928) were insane; .387 batting average, .632 slugging pct. And he did all of that while being walked 107 times. The rest of the team that year was awful – Tom remembers, the Cardinals won the NL pennant that year.

BTW, as a Cardinal he hit over .400 three times. His highest yearly batting average was .424 in 1924; he also scored 121 runs and had 94 rbi; truly scary stuff!

Many of you remember Tom Hanks’ “No crying in baseball” scene from the movie “A League of Their Own.” Hornsby is mentioned in that scene. Also, there was a Burlington train in the movie as well – how was that for getting back on target (and I did it w/o a net!)

Pike/Toy day today so we’ll talk about cereal premiums. I was rummaging through the east wing and found a bag of replica metal railroad heralds. Then went to e-bay and was amazed at the price for one of them. So the research dept went to work and found out the following.

The heralds were premiums in Sugar Crisp back in the 1950s (one to a box). They were issued for the following railroads. GN, Erie, DL&W, CRI&P, ATSF, RDG, NYC, NKP, PRR, C&O, WP, UP, CNW, CB&Q, MKT, SAL, PRR, and IC. I found that I had most of them – probably incurred a horrific dental bill from eating all of that sugar.

You can go to http://theimaginaryworld.com and follow the links to see all sorts of advertising material related to premiums. There is a poster for Sugar Crisp which describes the railroad offering. Sorry to destroy your evening, but this site is fascinating.

BTW, I found a Ted Williams ring premium on the site which I had never seen before.

work safe
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 8:41 AM
Good Morning Kapitan Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

Just caught your post., Coalminer3, etc. [swg] Thanks for the recognition! [tup]
Chock full o' baseball today - but always worth the read. I see your Red Sox are right back "up there," with the hated Yankees right behind! My Mets have pulled away to a 5 game lead and that's "amazing!" [swg] Tom's Cardinals fell a bit in Cincy - but I noticed that 3 of their big guns didn't play - Pujols - Rollen & Edmonds. That's 3 sure-fire All Stars out of the line up which surely had to contribute to their brief slide.

Interesting URL! [swg]

Ok - on to my "pre-prepared post!"

Another Wednesday and our first with a new name, “Model & Toy Trains Day!” Whatever the name, the idea as I understand it, is to contribute material relevant to the pursuit of model railroading all while keeping with the established criteria of Classic Trains. Is that correct, Herr Kapitan [?]


A round of your finest brew or OJ, for those wishing to imbibe! [tup]

Now, to my submission. It is amazing just how much “reality” is crammed into articles written under the guise of “toy trains” and model railroading. Check this one out for not only the fascination with Lionel trains but to glean some factual info regarding the real-life prototypes.


The following submission is from:



QUOTE: LIONEL DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES

Unlike most real railroads, Lionel was slow to embrace diesel locomotives. Prior to World War II, the only examples Lionel produced were the power units for the “M10000” streamliner and “Zephyr” replicas. All this chanted in 1948 when Lionel introduced its model of the F3 locomotive. In unusual arrangement, the tooling costs for the new model were shared jointly by General Motors (parent company of EMD - the Electro Motive Division, builders of the actual F3), Lionel, and the New York Central and Santa Fe railroads.

The new diesel model was a sales hit, especially the Santa Fe. In its heyday, 125 of the gleaming red and silver units were produced each hour. This popularity paved the way for a succession of other locomotive models and paint schemes – some quite realistic, others purely fictitious. Reproduction and forgeries of many of the Lionel F-3s are rampant, and the listings below will hopefully help in distinguishing actual Lionel production from fakes.

Most real “diesel” locomotives are actually diesel-electric. The diesel engine runs at a steady speed, turning a generator. The current produced is then fed to large motors, called traction motors, which are mounted in the locomotive’s trucks.

American Locomotive Company (ALCO) was a longtime supplier of steam locomotives and was not about to let an upstart like General Motors get the upper hand. Initially teaming with General Electric, ALCO produced a broad range of models for different needs. Its model FA (Freight-A unit) was the equal of the EMD F3, and was about the same size in real life. Lionel, however, chose to offer its FA replica as O27 item, and it was substantially downsized from scale. Because the FA was the only ALCO diesel Lionel duplicated, many collectors use the name ALCO interchangeably with the model name FA.

Other GM-built locomotives Lionel chose to duplicate were the NW-2 switcher and GP7 General Purpose diesels. Lionel also listed GP9 diesel models in its catalog, but in actuality these were merely replicas of GP7 diesels with dynamic brake housings. On a real locomotive dynamic braking is achieved by using the locomotive’s traction motors as generators when going downhill or slowing the train. The current produced is then dissipated through windings, generating heat, which is why the large housing and blower are required. Its purpose is to lessen the wear on the train’s service brakes.

Longtime heavy-machinery builder Fairbanks-Morse had perfected an opposed-piston engine prior to WWII. During the war, hundreds of these were supplied for use in submarines and other Navy ships. Its high horsepower-to-weight ratio and compact size made it a natural for adaptation as a locomotive power plant, and F-M entered the locomotive market. The H24-66 (2,400 horsepower, two six-wheel trucks) “Train Master” locomotives were substantially more powerful than any other diesels on the market at the time. IT is not surprising that Lionel produced a model of these powerhouses. As with ALCO products, Lionel duplicated only one of the many models Fairbanks-Morse offered, resulting in collectors using the terms “Train Master,” F-M, and Fairbanks-Morse interchangeably.

Lionel introduced a new style switcher to its product line in 1956 with the 44-ton GE switcher. Lionel’s version was not an accurate model because it was grossly oversized. Actual 44-ton switchers were created to doge a stipulation in a 1937 agreement with the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen. That agreement specified that a fireman would be required on any locomotive weighing 90,000 lbs or more. At 44 tons, the little GE was just under the limit.

The F3 and ALCO models were of a style of locomotive sometimes referred to as “covered wagons.” This name came from the shape of the round-topped full-width car body of the locomotives. Lionel’s power units were all replicas of what was known as an “A” unit. A real “A” unit had the locomotive cab, with windshield and engineers controls near one end. Other units, known as “B” units, were produced by ALCO, EMD, and other builders. These locomotives lacked the cab and engineer positions, and were controlled by an engineer in the adjacent A unit. This type of arrangement is known as a multiple unit lash up and an infinite number of locomotives, both A and B units, could be connected and controlled this way. From the real railroad’s perspective, the advantage of the B unit was its lower cost because of the lack of expensive controls and cab fittings. Further, locomotive builders often used letters to designate various models, such as E, F, GP, H, FT, FA, etc.

To add to this alphabet soup, Lionel created its own terminology for their diesel replicas. Power units had the suffix P added to the catalog number, dummy A units had the suffix T (for trailer), and B units – all of which were dummy – were assigned the suffix C, for center. Thus an A-B-A lashup of 2343 F3s would consist of a 2343P-2343C-2343T.


*********************************


If you missed my previous submission on Lionel Steam locomotives it is on page 309, 19 April 2006



Until the next time!

Lars
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:36 AM
Good morning Tom and the gang.

I think I will sample thee not often ordered #4 on the list, however hold the carpathian supprise [:O]. That and a very large OJ to force it down with.To reiterate quite the day yesterday, Nice to see the 20 post mark hit so early in the week. Kinda why we all hang out here I would think.

Lars Boris was timing that acceptance speach, you almost got the hook.[:O] Still no one more deserving of the inagural certificate.Interesting info on the Lionel diesels as well sir. You are right the Lionel system of model designation was a bot odd at first glance, however somehow it makes sence to me as well[%-)][(-D].

Shane / CM3 More baseball and trains today, good stuff [tup] I see that myboys are visiting Boston for the next couple of games, should be interesting we tend to play well against Boston and NYY.

I have to say that i have driven the WVA turnpike many a time, and you are correct the size and dimensions of some of the big trucks there as opposed to the road in places is not neccisarily for the faint of heart. I had the pleasure of witnessing a fully loaded hopper truck use one of the gravel truck run offs, had the paint chips to remeber it by as well and I was a good six car lengths back. Ever drive HWY 17 in Northern Ontario ( Trans Canada ) two lanes very scenic and infested with MOOSE , LOG TRUCKS , & RV's none of whom make for a delightfull experiance.

Interesting info on those cereal heralds,it's amazing how much $ worth some of the more obscure collectables will pull in. If for no other reason it's a gas just to see what people are willing to spend on Ebay.

Tom I don't no another up comming Zepher day, can the thread handle the strain captain[4:-)][oX)][oops]. It's good to see so many thumbs on the morning summery [tup] it seems that everyone is starting to get it.Loved the airtravel and flying "thots for the day as well" Kinda reminds me of a set of general rules of thumb for yard workers ( back yards ) The only one I remember at the moment was a speacial instruction for those laying sod down. GREEN SIDE UP ! .


Rob
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:35 AM
G’day Gents!


A fine day yesterday, but we must “temper” it a bit, since our resident “font of passenger RR knowledge” contributed 7 Posts throughout the day! [tup][tup][tup] We know how to yank his chain, eh[?] [swg]

Thanx to all who contributed to and participated in our “Theme for the Day: CB&Q!!” [tup][tup][tup]

Today is the beginning of our newly anointed, Toy & Model Trains Day! For anyone who gets confused by all of these “events” – this is NOT A THEME DAY – simply the day of the week where those wishing to provide info & pix regarding their railroading hobbies may do so in synch with others of similar interests.

So, don’t shy away from Wednesday’s if you have nothing to offer along the lines of toy & model trains. Business as usual, gents! [tup]

Really enjoyed so much of what was offered yesterday that it would take far too long to chronicle my thoughts, especially in light of the accolades and accounts already given by Lars – CM3 ‘n Rob. So let me just offer my “dittos” for jobs well done and thanx for the support of our cyber bar! [tup][tup][tup]

I must make mention of those continuing fine URLs provided by our one and only URLMeister Mike! Spent a bit of time checking ‘em out and came away with good vibes – well worth it! [tup][tup][tup]


A flying start to the morning with contributions from Lars – CM3 ‘n Rob – mighty nice to see all of you and appreciate the business! Ka-ching, ka-ching, one more time! [swg]

Lars You actually have an uncle by the name of Børge [?] I won’t even begin to guess the pronounciation! [swg] Nice ‘acceptance’ speech – but your nearly got the “hook” as Rob mentioned! [swg] Remember, we’re into May now – so it’s “What have you done lately[?]” <grin> No time to bask in the glow of the MVP ‘round here. <laugh>

CM3 (I’m not Shane!) That’s one hulluva URL you dropped on us. I spent far too much time clicking through the various and assorted avenues! Good Gawd Gertie – there’s no end to it all! [swg] Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting, but . . . . .

Received your Email replies . . . thanx! [tup]

Rob A return to daylight! [wow] Almost didn’t recognize you in the brilliance of the day! [swg] Actually, it’s getting darker ‘n darker ‘round these parts as yet another storm system approaches our part of the continent. What was that I have been saying about needing the rain[?] Stop, already!! [swg]

CM3 Enjoyed the baseball references! Better said that I know about certain aspects of Cardinals and Browns history having called this area “home” for nearly 30 years of my almost 68. My “roots,” though are deeply entangled in those “Boys of Summer” called the Brooklyn Dodgers! Loved ‘em all . . . RIP. [tup]

Lars Appreciate your kicking off our Toys & Model Trains Day! with that fine piece on the Lionel Diesel locomotives. The book shown in the piece is a “keeper” and well worth the purchase for anyone interested in that sortathing! [tup]

Thanx to those who bought rounds and provided quarters for our Coal Scuttle! [tup]


Okay boyz – I expect to be here for the day! Belly up to the bar and place those orders! [swg]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


BE SMARTER:
Use the “Reload/Refresh” as soon as you get to ”Our” Place.
It’s the only way to get the most current Posts!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Alberta's Canadian Rockies
  • 331 posts
Posted by BudKarr on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 11:58 AM
Good Day Captain Tom and all assembled!


A hearty greeting from our mountain retreat and a round on us if you please, barkeep! A steaming mug of coffee, with just a “splash” of something to make it interesting will do fine for me. My lady would like one of those Napoleans from the Bakery case with a cup of tea, if you please! For me, I’ll take the #3 from your menu board that seems to be so popular with the guys. [swg]

My congratulations to LoveDomes Lars for the “MVP Award!” Well earned and deserved! [tup][tup][tup]

Tom You should be commended for coming up with ways to keep the guys interested, acknowledged, and inspired! Good show! [tup][tup][tup] On the “down side,” just one more item you have added to YOUR list of things to do and keep track of! <groan>


Appreciate the understanding with regard to my absence these past days. A bit hectic on the domestic front, but in short order, all will fall into place – if we do not, first (fall, that is!). [swg]


Thoroughly enjoyed the weekend’s activities – the photos and Encores! The “Railroads from Yesteryear” feature on Tuesday is indeed a “fixture” at the bar. Another wonderful idea and there is little doubt it has struck a positive chord with the guys! [tup]

Wonderful URL submissions from the man called, URLMeister! Just do not have the time available to enjoy them all. “Bookmarking” the pages that they are on, essentially gives you the entire page, which is no different than scrolling back to find them!

If there is to be an award for MLFTP – most looked forward to posts – it would go to Sir Coalminer! Enjoyable, diverse and always on the mark. [tup]

Captain Tom your emails have been received and answered! [tup] Rob Just received yours and really do not have anything to offer, especially since I will be away during the period in question – same for you, Lars. I think that catches me up . . .


As this may be my final “Pike Perspective Day,” or “Toy & Model Trains Day!” (the latter name seems more appropriate to the submissions of late) postings for awhile, I thought to continue with my Euro flavor of two weeks ago:



Trix SNCF BB 426000 ELECT LOCO

QUOTE: Prototype: French State Railways (SNCF) class 426000 dual system locomotive. "SYBIC" dual system locomotive. B-B wheel arrangement. Assigned to the freight service area (FRET).
from: Trix



Trix CFL CL 3600 ELECT LOCO

QUOTE: Prototype: Luxembourg State Railways (CFL) class 3600. In Bordeaux red as the prototype looked in Era IV. Design similar to the French BB 12 000.
from: Trix



Brawa Rail Car BR 465 (1950s-70s)

QUOTE: At the end of the 1950s, the electric power cars of the ET 65 series had become worn out through hard daily use. The acquisition of a replacement vehicle was out of the question for various reasons. Thus the DB decided to completely refurbi***he vehicles. All 23 power cars still in existence were therefore taken to the Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt depot and completely reworked between 1961 and 1963. The complete renovation of the front part was the most obvious. The previous connecting doors were removed, the smooth surface front was equipped with 2 large rubber-mounted windows. At the other end, rubber beadings were attached to panels in order to give weather protection when moving from car to car.
The operator stands were completely modernised, an inductive train protection system was the safety standard at that time. The passenger comfort was significantly increased by new lighting and padded seats. In the modernised form, the ET 65 or from 1968 465 power car was in reliable daily service until its replacement by the S-Bahn in 1977.
from: Brawa



Brawa Diesel Locomotive BR 216 (1970s-80s)

QUOTE: In 1975 the new colour scheme (often referred to as "turquoise/beige") was officially introduced for locomotives and carriages. The Bundesbahn symbol, the DB "biscuit" was originally sea-blue in colour.
A number of locomotives of the 216 series were also painted in these colours which were typical of epoch 4 up to 1987. But even after that, many vehicles remained in service with the former colour scheme. And many of these also received the new eye-catching red DB symbol over the existing paintwork.
from: Brawa



Brawa Diesel Locomotive BR 232

QUOTE: The DB group has changed its "appearance" once again. The well-known DB logo will be extended in future according to whether the loco is owned by "Mobility", "Networks" or "Logistics". Since Railion counts as part of DB Logistics, the logos on Railion locomotives will also be changed. The new version is the simple logo "Railion" without the well-known box, supplemented by "DB Logistics". One of the first locomotives affected by this is the
232 675-9.
from: Brawa



Trix METRONOME 146.1 TRAIN SET

QUOTE: "Swinging in Time" – "Metronome" is the brand name for ten new bi-level trains operated by the Metronome Railroad Company Ltd. in Uelzen, Germany. These very modern locomotives and cars can be recognized from a distance by their striking, sophisticated design in the colors of yellow, white, and blue. Metronome has linked the cities of Hamburg and Bremen as well as Hamburg and Uelzen since December of 2003 as a regional express train railroad. The train name Metronome symbolizes together with the logo of a swinging pendulum the schedule concept of departures on an hourly schedule. Musicians are familiar with a metronome as a beat generator. For that reason the slogan for the Metronome trains is "Swinging in Time".
from: Trix


Note: As has been past practice, Lydia has helped immensely with these model train retrievals. My guess is she thinks I am learning something! <wink>

Enjoyed the posting by my “bookend” on the “Lionel Diesels!” [tup]


Good health and happiness to all! [tup]


BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada’s high mountain country!
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 1:51 PM
G’day!

Nice work, BK! Certainly appreciate your taking the time out to contribute to this Wednesday's activties . . . [tup][tup][tup]

If there's one thing about this bar of ours that remains a constant, it is "we always here!" No matter how long one is gone, no matter where - once accessed, the good folks at Kalmbach have provided us with a retrieval system that 'works!' [tup]

Our THANX to Lydia for her hard work and that glass of white wine over there is for her - compliments of the house! [swg]

We've seen Al over at "my other thread" twice today - but only "peeking in" over here. He seems to think that just because he isn't a hobbyist, that this day isn't for him. Will someone, other than I PLEASE clue him in[?] Thanx!




My contribution to this, our first “Toy & Model Trains Day!” (formerly: Pike Perspective’s Day!)


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.


Toy train

A toy train is a toy that represents a train, distinguished from a model train by an emphasis on low cost and durability, rather than scale modeling. A toy train can be as simple as a pull toy that does not even run on track, or it might be operated by clockwork or a battery. Many toy trains blur the line between the two categories, running on electric power and approaching accurate scale.

Standards

The first widely adopted standards for toy trains running on track were introduced inLeipzig, Germany in 1891 by Märklin.

Name . . . . . Width . . . . . Width . . . . . size . . . . . . . . . . Comments
gauge . . . . . (metric) . . . . (imperial)

Number 5 . . . . 120 mm . . . 4 ft 5/8” . . . 1:8 . . . . . . . . . . Also known as V Gauge.
Number 4 . . . . . 75 mm . . . 3 in. . . . . . 1:11 or 1:20 . . . . Also known as IV or 3
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . gauge.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Measurement is sometimes
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . also quoted at 2 15/16 in.
Number 3 . . . . . 67 mm . . . 2 5/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . also known as III, II, IIa
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . gauges
Number 2 . . . . . 54 mm . . . 2 1/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . also know as II gauge.
Number 1 . . . . . 45 mm . . . 1 ¾ in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Also known as I gauge.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Used by modern G scale.
Number 0 . . . . . 35 mm . . . 1 3/8 in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Introduced later, around 1900.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . This is modern O gauge.

Märklin measured the gauge as the distance between the centers of the two outer rails, rather than the distance between the outer rails themselves. Lionel's Standard gauge is allegedly the result of Lionel's misreading these standards, as are the variances in O gauge between the United States and Europe.

Most of these standards never really caught on, due to their large size, which made them impractical to use indoors, as well as the high price of manufacturing. Wide gauge trains, which are close in size to 2 gauge, are produced in limited quantities today, as are 1 gauge and O gauge trains. Of these, O gauge is the most popular.

An O gauge Marx toy train set made in the late 1940s or early 1950s.
GNU Free Documentation

The modern standards for toy trains also include S gauge, HO scale, N scale, and Z scale, in descending order of size. HO and N scale are the most popular model railway standards of today; inexpensive sets sold in toy stores and catalogs are less realistic than those sold to hobbyists. O gauge arguably remains the most popular toy train standard. Another size that is attracting interest among hobbyists is building and operating trains from LEGO, or L gauge, which is roughly 1/38 scale.

Although the words "scale" and "gauge" are often used interchangeably, toy train manufacturers have only recently concerned themselves with accurate scale. The terms "O scale" and "S scale" tend to imply serious scale modeling, while the terms "O gauge" and "S gauge" tend to imply toy trains manufactured by the likes of Lionel and American Flyer. While S gauge is fairly consistent at 1:64 scale, O gauge trains represent a variety of sizes. O gauge track happens to be 1/45 the size of real-world standard gauge track, so manufacturers in Continental Europe have traditionally used 1:45 for O gauge trains. British manufacturers rounded this up to 1:43, which is seven millimeters to the foot. U.S. manufacturers rounded it down to 1:48, which is a quarter-inch to the foot. However, most engaged in a practice of selective compression in order to make the trains fit in a smaller space, causing the actual scale to vary, and numerous manufacturers produced 1:64 scale trains—the proper size for S gauge—in O gauge, especially for cost-conscious lines.

Some of the earliest O gauge trains made of tinplate weren't scale at all, made to unrealistic, whimsical proportions similar in length to modern HO scale, but anywhere from one and a half to two times as wide and tall.

Some adult fans of toy trains operate their trains, while others only collect. Some toy train layouts are accessorized with scale models in an attempt to be as realistic as possible, while others are accessorized with toy buildings, cars, and figures. Some hobbyists will only buy accessories that were manufactured by the same company who made their trains. This practice is most common among fans of Marx and Lionel.

History


Toy trains can be enjoyed by both children and adults. (Fair Use)

The earliest toy trains date from the 19th century and were often made of cast iron. Motorized units running on track soon followed, powered by a steam or clockwork engine. Some of these trains used clever methods to whistle and smoke.

Toy trains were revolutionized when Märklin, a German firm that specialized in doll house accessories, sought to create an equivalent toy for boys where a constant revenue stream could be ensured by selling add-on accessories for years after the initial purchase. In addition to boxed sets containing a train and track, Märklin offered extra track, rolling stock, and buildings sold separately, creating the predecessor to the modern model train layout featuring buildings and scenery in addition to an operating train.

Electric trains followed, with the first appearing in 1897, produced by the U.S. firm Carlisle & Finch. As electricity became more common in the early 20th century, electric trains gained popularity and as time went on, these electric trains grew in sophistication, gaining lighting, the ability to change direction, to emit a whistling sound, to smoke, to remotely couple and uncouple cars and even load and unload cargo. Toy trains from the first half of the 20th century were often made of lithographed tin; later trains were often made mostly of plastic.

Prior to the 1950s, there was little distinction between toy trains and model railroads—model railroads were toys by definition. Pull toys and wind-up trains were marketed towards children, while electric trains were marketed towards teenagers, particularly teenaged boys. It was during the 1950s that the modern emphasis on realism in model railroading started to catch on.


CSX freight train emerging from a colorful truss bridge, one of many wooden toy trains offered by Whittle Shortline. (Wikimedia Commons)

Consumer interest in trains as toys waned in the late 1950s, but has experienced resurgence since the late 1990s due in large part to the popularity of Thomas the Tank Engine.

Today, S gauge and O gauge railroads are still considered toy trains even by their adherents and are often accessorized with semi-scale model buildings by Plasticville or K-Line (who owns the rights to the Plasticville-like buildings produced by Marx from the 1950s to the 1970s). Ironically, however, due to their high cost, one is more likely to find an HO scale or N scale train set in a toy store than an O scale set.

Many modern electric toy trains contain sophisticated electronics that emit digitized sound effects and allow the operator to safely and easily run multiple trains on one loop of track.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


REMINDER!
Read the Daily Summaries!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: northeast U.S.
  • 1,225 posts
Posted by LoveDomes on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 3:29 PM
Hiya Tom! and fellow travlers at the bar!

A round on me - a draught of whatever's on tap and slide those pretzels down my way, wudja[?] [tup]

Just stopped by to see what's going on - quiet I see. However, some really good posts on the "Toy Trains" for this day. [tup][tup]

Don't know what to tell ya about 20 FIngers - and perhaps better to stay away from my opinion! [swg] Yeah, I've seen him over at your "other thread" - good stuff today on the Katy! He sure can find the info, huh[?]

Your submission on the Toy Train is chock full o' good stuff - really an education piece and "must reading" for those engaged in toy & model trains. A primer, of sorts. [tup] Nicely done and I can see how much effort it took to get that all formatted and set up for this forum. [tup][tup][tup]

Didja see the great submission from my "bookend"[?][?] This from a guy who just a short time ago didn't seem to know or care about a locomotive from a pool table. Now look at him! [swg] I think we've had an impact on the guy. Postive, of course!! <grin>

Ok - I'm on my way outta here - gotta get into the kitchen and help the 1st Mate! [swg]


Until the next time! [tup]

Lars
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:13 PM
Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

I realize the subject today is not CB&Q but I have been pondering what if.

The SAL named their three Premier streamliners Silver Comet, Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

Beginning with the Denver Zephyr all future CB&Q cars would have Silver Prefix names and even one streamliner Silver Streak Zephyr carried the Silver prefix name . Can you imagine if UP had owned the Silver Prefix naming would they have brought suit against the SAL?

Mind wonders sometimes maybe now that my nurse has changed my medication bag and battery for the day I guess I should have a nap.

TTFN Al

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