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Very strange things

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 9:46 AM

Overmod
As early as May 19th 1933 the new Nazi government had to pass a law formally restricting use of Hitler's carefully-designed swastika logo to approved things respecting 'dignity'.

True, but it wouldn't be too long before the swastika flag became a mandatory tail marking on all German civil aircraft, especially Lufthansa's and the Zeppelin company, since they operated with a government subsidy.

You know the old saying, "Take the king's shilling..."

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 9:38 AM

Overmod
 That is a German mailcoach (see the horn on the door?

Whoops!  I saw the stagecoach and the first things I thought of were John Wayne, "Tales of Wells Fargo," "Gunsmoke," "Maverick," well you get the picture.  Next time I'll enlarge before I leap!

Then I could have been a little more correct:

"Ach du lieber!  Kompetition!  Get der Mausers boys, und shoot dat ting down!" 

But tell me you didn't giggle just a bit at my "...Nazis are good to eat..." wisecrack!

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:44 AM

Miningman
... at the time I'm sure it was a sign of progress and modernism.

As early as May 19th 1933 the new Nazi government had to pass a law formally restricting use of Hitler's carefully-designed swastika logo to approved things respecting 'dignity'.  Seems everybody and his brother jumped on the bandwagon when the NSDAP took power, and again when the Weimar flag and its colors was replaced with the old 'imperial' style.  Not surprising to see it in a 'modernity' poster -- it would be a while yet for the NS 'logo' to become a symbol of terror in itself.

(This was only a couple of years after the Tale of Bing-O, to put swastikas in contemporary perspective...) 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:34 PM

Overmod-- yes I knew that, except that the artist was Jewish. I could not get a good clear larger size to copy but it can be found in the net quite easily. A stagecoach and a swastika emblazoned plane flying overhead was just too tempting. Probably shouldn't have put it up. It's a weird thing looking back...but at the time I'm sure it was a sign of progress and modernism. 

 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 10:47 PM

3) ... you should be ashamed.  That is a German mailcoach (see the horn on the door? Don't Ever Antagonize The Horn and all that! If the color wasn't enough of a tipoff) and the fashion and all make me think it's 1833 'down below' - the aircraft is 1933.  Gayle Ullmann wouldn't do too many more posters like that one ... he was Jewish and informed that the Reich und Volk had no further need of his art...

5) aside from the usual inimitable Self, Angus Sinclair has some things to say about the Nichols engine, perhaps a bit more understanding of the materials limitations, actual and believed, that governed some of the idea.  Considering Harrison's Thunderer and Hurricane, which were in my opinion far wackier, and that it continued to be difficult to burn anthracite effectively in a locomotive (without starting to smelt part of it) for at least another decade,it is not that surprising to see an attempt at an oversized boiler to get the desired mass flow from slow but hot combustion.

I thought for a while that this had a Loughridge chain brake but am advised that thing is a fan.  It is difficult to imagine that there was not enough heat release even with sparse tubes to capture it for that thing to work.  It was clear to me that the 'boiler' was retained for water and iron weight and quite Possibly had all the adhesion the bearings and track could take while keeping the steam generator low enough for clearance and avoiding tip over.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:03 PM

Here we go!

Photo 1)  You know, it might just still be there.  Abandoned locomotives turn up in the darndest places.  A 24" gauge 0-4-4 turned up in the woods in Sussex County NJ in (I think) 2013, "Railfan and Railroad" magazine had an article about it.  Wish I'd saved the issue.

That may not be the original boiler.  There's a steam preservation club out in Williams Grove PA that owns a Pennsy 0-6-0 that doesn't have a Belpaire boiler either.  Their locomotive had been reboilered sometime in the past and lost it's original Belpaire type.

It's the Williams Grove Historical Steam Engine Association, here's the website:

https://www.wghsea.org   They've got some stuff!

Photo 2)  Makes me think of Chief Wild Eagle.  "It is bal-loon!"

Photo 3)  "Git the Winchesters boys!  They tell's me Nazis is good to eat and the season closes t'morrow!  Yee-Ha!!!"

Photo 4)  I guess  it makes sense.  Why pay for more bridge than you need?

Photo 5)  A rare example of motive power from the Dolittle Locomotive Works, the world-famous "Pushme-Pullyou" engine.  What the hell else could it be?

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:24 PM

Probably moved itself OK but otherwise mostly useless.

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:04 PM

1)  I've read that this Pennsy 0-6-0 was just left in place and is still there. Also that it is a very rare Pennsy locomotive because it does not have a Belpaire firebox.  It is adjacent to the B&LE mainline. 

 

2)  Here is the last picture of the 13th Balloon Squad moments before they were swept up into the wild blue yonder never to be seen again!

( Not seriously, I'm just joking) 

 

3) A poster entitled Deutsche Lufthansa.

A nazi logo plane meets the Wild West. This is weird.

 

4)  The short lived Iowa Pacific.  Man that's a skinny bridge! 

 

5 The Nichols Locomotive 

You can probably see the biggest snag already- the weight of the boiler was not available for adhesion. The performance in this respect must have been terrible.

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, June 4, 2020 11:02 PM

There you go. Terrific . Thanks 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, June 4, 2020 9:32 PM

Miningman

Ok good good, thanks. So then I would assume darn near everyone had a few of them. Are they still around today in some form? 

A modern one:

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/473088/

CN had some similar cars in the past.  One of the Northern Alberta history books has photos of them being used to move large dragline and bucketwheel parts on the NAR line to Fort McMurray back in the 1970s, when Syncrude's original mine was being built.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, June 4, 2020 9:16 PM

Agreed! That cross member is throwing me off. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:55 PM

Overmod

 

 
Miningman
I assume it has no floor and is used over top an inspection pit but who knows?

 

It's for large loads like telescope mirrors or generator rotors that can't be carried blocked on a depressed-center car but extend the height of the loading gage from railhead to plate limit.

 

At first I wondered if it was for high loads, but then it seemed the low cross member would rule that out.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:56 PM

Ok good good, thanks. So then I would assume darn near everyone had a few of them. Are they still around today in some form? 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:47 PM

Miningman
I assume it has no floor and is used over top an inspection pit but who knows?

It's for large loads like telescope mirrors or generator rotors that can't be carried blocked on a depressed-center car but extend the height of the loading gage from railhead to plate limit.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 8:35 PM

I don't know .. was hoping someone would come forward and explain. It's a very strange thing! 

Just hope it's not a portable gallows! 

I assume it has no floor and is used over top an inspection pit but who knows?

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, June 3, 2020 8:27 PM
Miningman wrote the following post 22 hours ago:

Pit Flats

Did everyone have a few of these? Are there still some around, not the originals but a modern day equivalent?

309950 first of 5 pit flats built 1921. 37 feet long 80 ton capacity. 

Note: The upright structure is part of the car. It holds the load as there is no bottom in the pit!

 

Are you saying that there is a hole in the center of the floor?  Was it used to pick up stuff between the tracks, or in a drop pit?

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:46 PM

Pit Flats

Did everyone have a few of these? Are there still some around, not the originals but a modern day equivalent?

309950 first of 5 pit flats built 1921. 37 feet long 80 ton capacity. 

Note: The upright structure is part of the car. It holds the load as there is no bottom in the pit!

 

 

Another strange perspective that makes a pretty big cylinder even more massive than it is 

 

Y6b

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, May 17, 2020 6:11 PM

I've never played a computer game and my experience with CG images is restricted to engineering drawings.

I have no idea how the images were put together, but the discrepancies are at least interesting....

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, May 16, 2020 11:10 PM

Peter, you are right about the wheel arrangement, but that is really a screencap from the PC game "Fallout 4". More screenshots of this engine:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=710074558

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/27041/

PG18:

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, May 16, 2020 6:23 PM

Believe it or not, this is a screenshot of the computer game "Fallout 4", a very popular action role-playing, open-world sandbox game.

I have seen a lot of computer generated imagery, and I have never seen variations like that seen between the two views of the same locomotive. The change in ground level particularly would have no meaning in a game, just as the missing end fairings on the forward condensers have no reason  to be there in one view and missing in another. I feel this might be a real item just incorporated in the game. There is a full size steampunk locomotive in New Zealand that I know of, not as impressive as this, of course.

It is the same locomotive in the two views, a 6-8-4 in both cases. the leading axle is obscured in the side view by trees. It would be unusual to put a tree in front of a CG image intentionally. And why is there a boxcar in one view and not in the other, and why does that boxcar not have a conventional coupler and truck in the view it is seen?

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:04 PM

Believe it or not, this is a screenshot of the computer game "Fallout 4", a very popular action role-playing, open-world sandbox game. The game is set within an open world post-apocalyptic environment that encompasses the city of Boston and the surrounding Massachusetts region known as "The Commonwealth". The main story takes place in the year 2287, ten years after the events of Fallout 3 and 210 years after "The Great War", which caused catastrophic nuclear devastation across the United States. Player finish missions after mission within a 100 km2 area.

When I played this game, I didn't notice there was more than one version of this steampunk engine, one was a 6-8-4, another one was a 4-8-4. In this game, a player could build their own settlement anywhere inside the mentioned area, and this was what I built on an island, the Hotel Normandie:

The building was supposed to be much taller but it reached the height limited in the game. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, May 16, 2020 11:09 AM

That that would be something to be trackside to listen to and watch those Zoelly Turbines back in the day. 

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, May 16, 2020 8:34 AM

This photo appears to have been taken later than the side view (the leading truck has derailed and the nearer rail has disppeared beneath dirt, and the boxcar(?) behind the locomotive has moved out of frame or disappeared.

It seems our designer had seen the Swiss Zoelly locomotive as well and has incorporated its condensers, as well as those of the Krupp locomotive listed in the earlier post (well, it has at least two turbines) but a rather more significant error is that the Swiss condensers are located IN FRONT OF the turbine in the steam flow which would tend to reduce its efficiency unless it is a hydraulic turbine.

In the first photo, the Swiss condensers are faired into the steam pipe but not in the second photo - perhaps the fairings just fell off at some time?

Peter

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Posted by M636C on Friday, May 15, 2020 10:43 PM

 It appears that the builder of this locomotive was familiar with the 1928 Krupp Zoelly Turbine T18 1001.

I spent some time recalling where I had seen the twin cylindrical condensers just above the driving wheels on a locomotive until I remembered:

http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/germturb/germturb.htm

I note the coupling rods on the strange locomotive are in fact solid with the truss on the outside (at least, you can't see through the truss). But nothing appears to drive the third driving axle, even assuming the first axle is geared to a a turbine.

Peter

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, May 15, 2020 7:59 PM

Do you suppose there's a windshield on the side we can't see of #1?

#3 is the only kind of diesel that should be operated with a steam loco in excursion service: one that has a photography platform.

No 5 needs more accoutrements:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, May 15, 2020 5:44 PM

Thanks for the input guys... great comments .

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, May 15, 2020 10:51 AM

Fascinating assortment today!  Let's take 'em one-by one.

Photo 1)  Talk about practicality!  Hook it up to a track speeder and you're saved a trip into the bushes when you're out in the boonies, 'cause who knows what in those bushes?  Hmm   

Photo 2)  A tank on rails! I'd assume to maintain order on the sugar plantations.  So much for Fidel's "Workers Paradise."

Photo 3)  Now talk about practicality!  There you are, a VERY slow day out on the line, so what do you do?  Stop on a bridge over a nice trout stream, set up the chairs, coolers, and fishing tackle and have some fun!  However, only short-lines could get away with this!

Photo 4)  "Where's the steam?"  You suppose that's the guy who famously tore the all-diesel issue of "Trains" in half and sent the same to David P. Morgan?   An act of lese majeste'  if ever there was one!

Photo 5)  The scooter's cool, but can you imagine a Harley modified to run on rails?

Photo 6)  Good Lord.  And I thought this  thing was weird!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFjRoELN-tQ  

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, May 15, 2020 8:52 AM

Miningman
Time for some fun.

Always a welcome prospect.

[quote]1) The Pride of the Union Pacific Fleet!  It's amazing what can be accomplished when Management and the Union put their heads together.

Not sure it was their heads that were the primary thing they pulled this idea out of.  On the other hand, it has most of the good aspects of Loup Logistics intermodal planning -- the temptation to provide a purpose-built facility, for example, has been resisted in the (valid!) interests of providing sealed security for the container contents during transfer for subsequent handling.  The white flag for 'extra movement' was a nice warning touch.

I wonder what PTC stands for?  "Privy Transport Conveyance"?  "Positive Turd Control"?  (What it ought to be, of course, is the Porta-Potty company's own 'container' number... and if this site's pictures are any guide, that's exactly what it is.)

(I actually have the awful suspicion that something like this might actually need a transponder for track occupancy, and that the black box contains thousands of dollars of SDR-enabled communications gear.  Can inward-facing cab cameras be next?)

3)  Now optional on GE models 'the suntanning deck'

New options on what?  The closest thing to General Electric on that locomotive is the unit passing on the adjacent track.

This is adaptive reuse of what, I believe, was a Cotton Belt tunnel motor, I suspect with the larger fuel-tank option.  Interestingly part of the 'difference' over an 'ordinary' SD40-2 is that the "porch" at the other end is absent, perhaps by retaining the original SD45-T2 cab location and connections ... and I too am amazed that the weight distribution worked out.  

Sure wish they'd put a nice normal railroad bell in that bracket, though!

[quote]4)  " Hey Come On! Where's the Steam!" 

Every bit as much steam as a MTH GS-4 blowing its whistle ... and about the same visual fidelity.  

Oh, for the good old days when railfans could just ignore locomotives with PRR keystones passing on the Curve.  On the other hand ... what a perfect metaphor for the Penn Central early Seventies?

It would sure get a lot more visually interesting for railfans after 1976!

 

5)  Can you get streamers? A hand squeeze horn? Actually not a bad idea.

OK, now show me what the Rockers on MOW crews would drive.

6) Train Art. Steampunk 1:1

 

If this doesn't get Jones1945's juices flowing, I can't imagine what would.  Everything that is right about the T1, the S2, the DD1, the Swedish turbine 2-8-0s, the prospective streamlining for ATSF 3765, the Russian P36 and opposed-cylinder locomotives, the Raketa lake hydrofoils ... all rolled up in one.
 
On the other hand, it shows perhaps the greatest occupational hazard of steampunk: a lack of ultimate knowledge of how steam (and its technology) actually works.  Jackshaft drive ... that's credible.  S2-style gearing to driver axles ... that's credible.  Both on the same locomotive: EPIC FAIL.
 
Then there are those '60s-New-Orleans-apartment style flat truss side rods.  And Chapelon thought Timken lightweight rods had lateral flexure issues!
 
But the big fun issue for the day is what makes all the actual steam that this steampunk design is supposed to be using.  There isn't even an anbaric furnace or high-pressure peroxide catalysis mixing chamber here... not even a rear frame that goes to where it would even remotely pull on something like a train.   The artist is in terrible need of something like the MR thread about 'how to get rid of room light shining through the back end of the locomotive' that was running last week.
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Posted by Miningman on Friday, May 15, 2020 1:46 AM

Time for some fun.

1) The Pride of the Union Pacific Fleet!  It's amazing what can be accomplished when Management and the Union put their heads together.

 

2) All I know is that this is in Cuba on a sugar cane plantation.

 

3)  Now optional on GE models 'the suntanning deck'

 

4)  " Hey Come On! Where's the Steam!" 

 

5)  Can you get streamers? A hand squeeze horn? Actually not a bad idea.

 

6) Train Art. Steampunk 1:1

 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, May 11, 2020 7:03 PM

Ah, that would explain it Becky, I'm not into video games at all.

I probably still don't get out enough.  Especially lately.  Whistling

Wayne

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