Mark Did not take you long to answer that question. Guess it is your turn.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan I guess I will throw a quick question out there. In 1948 name the streamlined trains and the RRs they operated over between Dallas/Ft Worth and Houston? Al - in - Stockton
I guess I will throw a quick question out there. In 1948 name the streamlined trains and the RRs they operated over between Dallas/Ft Worth and Houston?
Twin Star Rocket and Sam Houston Zephyr - Burlington - Rock Island
Sunbeam and Hustler - T&NO
Texas Chief - GC&SF
Mark
OK Wanswheel
Looks like it is your question on this thread.
Okay Erik it's got to be the Northwestern Pacific commuter line done in by the Golden Gate Bridge.
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt9q2nd4c1/?docId=kt9q2nd4c1&&query=northwestern%20pacific%20railroad&brand=oac&layout=printable
http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/kt5w102555/?docId=kt5w102555&&query=northwestern%20pacific%20railroad&brand=oac&layout=printable
I stand somewhat corrected....I have the June 1968 Centennial Edition of the Guide which shows two routnd trip Boston-Albany daily. But it does not show the Boston-Springfield-NY service. The next book back for me is 1958.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
daveklepper Does your last guide before 1968, 1962, show the service? I recall a streetcar fantrip in Boston around 1962 or later, while the Park St. - Brighton-Newton- Watertown line was still running. We were using a Type 5. Two of the riders left at Newton to catch a Bosaton - NY train via Springfield. I gather no service via this route is current.
Does your last guide before 1968, 1962, show the service? I recall a streetcar fantrip in Boston around 1962 or later, while the Park St. - Brighton-Newton- Watertown line was still running. We were using a Type 5. Two of the riders left at Newton to catch a Bosaton - NY train via Springfield.
I gather no service via this route is current.
I'm sorry that I cannot be more precise at this time.
As to current service, you are right: it does not exist. Apparently, Amtrak had the same problem that B&A-NH had fifty-six years ago: there was insufficient traffic to warrant continuing the service. At one time, it was down to one day a week each way, then it was back to several days a week--and then there was none.
Johnny
Erik, your clues put in sight the New York, Westchester & Boston Railway.
Mike
I was in Springfield, MA Oct '66 thru Sept 68 and don't remember anything but the New England States connection. RDC's were on the B&M weekends through Feb '68 (rode the last one round trip to Greenfield one Sunday night). NH did regular equipment to NYP or GCT. NYC/B&A and NH did over the years offer different through or connecting services and Amtrak did try a through service.
daveklepper Amtrak did operate some NY - Boston service via Hartford and Springfield. For a while this was New Haven - Boston service using the Budd Hotrod Roger Wiliiams equipment with regular RD's occaisonally mixed in as well. I am pretty sure some pre-Amtrak service did survive on this route into Penn Central days.
Amtrak did operate some NY - Boston service via Hartford and Springfield. For a while this was New Haven - Boston service using the Budd Hotrod Roger Wiliiams equipment with regular RD's occaisonally mixed in as well. I am pretty sure some pre-Amtrak service did survive on this route into Penn Central days.
As to the Amtrak service, I recall hearing while traveling in October of 1971, that some agent who had never before issued a ticket via Springfield was amazed that the fare was the same for both routes; he thought that the longer route should have a higher fare. Apparently, he had never heard of competitive routings.
This route even had on-again,off-again, on-again, off-again under Amtrak operation. My wife and I rode Boston-Springfield-NYC in April of 1997; the southern terminus of this run was Richmond. We rode another Boston-Richmond train from NYC to Washington this spring; it, of course, followed the Shore Line.
American automatic block signaling received a boost when in 1881 George Westinghouse formed the Union Switch and Signal Company. Westinghouse applied his experience with the air brake to the development of electro-pneumatic automatic signal. A low voltage direct current track circuit operated the valves of a compressed air system, which in turn controlled the position of the signal. Electricity traveled by wire to one rail at the head of the block, then back down the track to the signal end, where the current crossed to the other rail through the relays of the signal circuit, and returned to the head of the block. Each section of track was electrically insulated from the adjoining blocks. When a train entered the block, the current short-circuited the system by crossing the track through the car wheels and axles, and never reached the signal relays. As the last car left the block, the track circuit was again closed. The opening and closing of the signal relay switch activated electric circuits controlling the valves of the pneumatic circuit.
In 1884, Westinghouse installed his electro-pneumatic signals on a stretch of the Pennsylvania Railroad east of Pittsburgh. Traffic volume on the steam roads increased, and by 1890, recognition of the need for automatic signaling under such conditions spurred wider adoption of the electro-pneumatic system in the United States. The timing of its introduction and development meant that the system was no longer experimental. It was thoroughly up-to-date when construction crews broke ground for the New York subway in 1900.
Electro-pneumatic operation of signals was ideal for the subway. The compressors and dynamos could be located far from the cramped tunnels. The conducting wires and small pipes took up little space along the tunnel roof, and the signal apparatus was quite compact. These considerations, plus its record of reliable service, prompted the adoption of the Westinghouse electro-pneumatic block signal system, whose "essentials had been worked out with years of practice in steam railways."
The modifications of signal technology were of course required in changing from steam to electric railway service. On steam roads, the rails could be devoted entirely to the signal circuit, while on most electric railways the running rails returned the propulsion current to the substation. Use of the same track for both propulsion and signal circuits complicated the operation of each. First, electric block signaling required that at least one rail be divided into electrically insulated sections, sacrificing its usefulness as a propulsion current return. In order to return the entire propulsion current along the remaining undivided rail, its electrical resistance was effectively doubled, decreasing, the efficiency of power return.
More important for safety was the severe voltage drop in the propulsion current along given sections of track during periods of heavy traffic. Experience on steam roads had shown that even small stray currents could interfere with the proper functioning of the signals. Clearly, reliable automatic block signaling on electric railways required a signal circuit control which would not be influenced or damaged by the power surges and drops of the higher voltage propulsion return current. For many years these difficulties prevented the introduction of automatic electric signaling on electric roads.
The first and only major installation of electric block signaling on an electric road in the United States prior to the New York subway was on the Boston Elevated lines in 1900-1901. The company installed a modification of the Westinghouse electro-pneumatic system, designed by S. M. Young for the Pneumatic Signal Company. The Young system was the first to subdivide only one rail into insulated blocks, leaving the other to return the entire propulsion current. The elevated structure had a large return capacity, somewhat relieving the burden on the individual rail and obviating one of the objections to the use of the same track for both propulsion and signal circuits. In addition, block length was short, lessening the likelihood of very great voltage drop along a given section. This alone, however, was not sufficient protection against interference by the propulsion current.
The Boston installation solved this technical problem by opposing the directions of the propulsion and signal current through the rails. The signal relays were provided with polarized armatures, sensitive only to direct current flowing in a single direction. The higher voltage propulsion return current, flowing in the opposite direction, would be ignored by the relays, preventing its damaging and dangerous intrusion into the relay and signal mechanisms.
The service of the Boston elevated system was in many ways analogous to the service planned for the New York subway. In July 1902, supervising and electrical engineers of the Rapid Transit Subway inspected the Boston system. Also present was a representative of the Union Switch and Signal Company, the eventual recipient of the Interborough signal contract. Boston provided the only example of automatic block signaling with a track circuit on an electric road, and the subway engineers felt that its system successfully handled the moderately heavy traffic on the els.
Traffic conditions in New York were expected to be of "unprecedented density," requiring a propulsion current of great magnitude. Interborough engineers feared that the correspondingly great current fluctuations which even normal service might induce would damage the signal circuit controls of even the Boston system. They sought to design a system in which the signal circuit used current entirely different from the propulsion current.
Alternating current provided the answer. Union Switch and Signal engineers, working with George Gibbs and J. M. Waldron of the Interborough, replaced the polarized direct current relays of the Boston system with relays sensitive only to alternating currents. The fluctuating magnetic field of the alternating current flowing through the rail induced a second current in a relay coil placed near, but not in contact with, the original current. The steady magnetic field of the direct current, unable to induce currents in nearby conductors, could not affect the relay mechanism. The relays, selectively transmitting the low voltage alternating signal current, remained unaffected by the behavior of the direct current propulsion return. Interposition of a shunting choke coil at the signal relay further screened the direct current from the signal mechanism. Aside from these subtle modifications, the system was identical to the Boston elevated adaptation of the Westinghouse electro-pneumatic operation.
The New York subway signal system was both innovative and pioneering. It interested major trunk line electric roads in the New York area. Although many electric railways were hesitant to install electric block signaling, the use of alternating current for signal systems on direct current roads eventually became standard practice.
The Interborough engineers thought that the automatic block signal would operate best by adopting overlaps. An overlap system extended the length of a block circuit a certain distance beyond the signal post of the following block. Extensive tests and studies by both the Interborough and Pennsylvania Railroad engineers provided train speed curves and braking curves, used to determine an appropriate overlap distance. Block lengths were set at twice that of the overlap, giving a shorter block length than was standard. This was desirable in the subway because the shorter the block, the greater the carrying capacity of the road.
Without an overlap a train cleared the signal of the block behind it as the last car left the block, and set the signal of its new block at danger. If it stopped just a few feet inside this block, a fast train over-running the danger signal could not avoid a collision. With an overlap, a train leaving a block would not clear the signal until the last car had passed beyond the end of the overlap. An adequate braking distance would then exist between the danger signal and the end of the lead train.
http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/haer-design-electrical.html
I think today, you will find that GCT has more trains than South Station, even not counting subways in the mix. Counting subways, GCT is still busier than St. Lzaier, but only if counting the subways.
Deggesty Would Sherlock Holmes know where he was if he were dropped into the Charing Cross station of today?
Would Sherlock Holmes know where he was if he were dropped into the Charing Cross station of today?
Off subject a bit, but one interesting bit of Holmesian trivia is that his address, which was/is a real London address (221B Baker Street) was basically across the street from the headquarters / station of the Metropolitan Railway so he could go out his door, across the street and via their subway trains be just about anywhere in metropolitan London in a matter of minutes.
Wanswheel has again come up with interesting pictures/information.
Back in 1969, Kalmbach republished a classic book, John A. Droege's Passenger Terminals and Trains. (McGraw-Hill, 1916) (John Droege was then the General Superintendent of the NYNH&H; he had also written Freight Terminals and Trains) On pp. 108-114, there is a discussion of South Station (there is also a foldout showing the general plan of the station; do not try to use it to find your way around the station today). "The Boston South Station enjoyed for several years the distinction of being the largest and busiest railroad station in America....It has since been eclipsed in some categories by various newer rivals but it has not lost its honor of being the busiest head station in the United States, for in the fiscal year ended June 30, 1913 it handled over 38,000,000 passengers, or 9,000,000 more than its nearest competitor, its sister station in Boston, and about 16,000,000 more than the Grand Central Terminal in New York, now the largest head station in the world." (pp. 108-109)
Mr. Droege acknowledges that most of the trains are suburban, "...but they include a large number of busy runs between Boston and New York over the New Haven and Boston & Albany and between Boston and the West over the New York Central and its leased line, the Boston & Albany." (p. 109) Yes, there was through service Boston-Springfield-New Haven-New York.
The busiest station in the world? Gare Saint Lazare, in Paris--1,200 daily train arrivals and departures with a maximum traffic of 250,000 passengers a day (p. 287).
Charing Cross I don't know beans about. It looks impressive in a picture.
http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/enlarge.aspx?index=0&uid=17284
1914 NY Times article, The World's Busiest Spot, induced a letter to the editor saying Hudson Terminal was tops.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9B0CE4DE153DE733A25750C1A9629C946596D6CF
Just in case some didn't spot the comma in Mark's link to Chicago-NY Electric Air Line
http://www.marymaclane.com/airline/
Still no response on the Charing Cross and GTC answers?
Mark, et. al.,
This is a short one as I will be heading up to the land of the Rocky Fork and Cooke City RR in a couple of days.
Which electrified railroad was the first to have continuous block signaling and how was it accomplished? (Note the method used is still in use by many electric RR's.)
- Erik
P.S. I liked what Hilton and Due had to say about the Electric Air Line - the construction standards were expensive in northeastern Indiana and would have been much more so in Pennsylvania.
Erikem,
Good answer. Except for transposing its name (it was the Chicago - New York Electric Air Line RR) you are right on all points. The 17+ miles that were actually built was operated with conventional interurban cars powered from overhead trolley wire. It was planned to ultimately double track the entire 743 mile route and run trains of conventional railroad cars pulled by 3rd rail powered "wind splitter" design electric locomotives. Lots of additional info and pictures are available on the link below. (Click on the link just below the large picture of Mary MacLane.)
http://www,marymaclane.com/airline/
Your turn to ask the next question.
I knew this answer, but you beat me to it. I'll be interested in the question you ask, although I was denied the possibility of asking a question after answering the busiest station and elevated quesitons. I'll enjoy your quesiton anyway.
That would be the New York Chicago Electric Air Line. The line that was constructed became part of the Gary Railways.
The line was supposed to allow 100 MPH top speeds, the ruling grades were to have been 0.5% and the end to end transit time was supposed to have been 10 hours.
If built, this would have been the first High Speed Rail line - but the technology wasn't quite there and the financing certainly wasn't there yet.
The early 1900's were the heyday of the interurban era with many lines completed, others only partially built and still others proposed but never constructed. One line clearly was more ambitious than all the others in terms of its proposed reach, route and objective operating speed. Only a small portion of the line was actually built which ultimately became a part of a successful local transit system.
What was the name of the proposed railroad and the transit system that later came to operate the completed portion of the line? What construction feature and objective end to end train operating time made the proposed line so unique?
The First Elevated Rapid Transit Railroad in the world was Charles Havey's West Side Patent Elevated Railroad which opened in 1867, with two cable cars, and two stations. The southern one was at Broom Street and the northern one at West 33rd Street. The route was Geenwich Street and Ninth Avenue (one still merges into the other, with transit service provided by the M11 bus.) Originally, it was single track with one passing siding, a very simple structure, without cross ties (sleepers for you Brits) and the rails directly on the longitudinal girders supported by a line of single columns along the sidewalk curb line. Ties were and a strengthened structure were introduced to allow steam traction and longer trains. The original single track was on the east side of Greenwich and the west side of 9th Avenue.
Grand Central Depot then Grand Central Terminal was and still is the busiest in the world
IF YOU COUNT ALL THE RAPID TRANSIT SERVICE AS WELL AS THE CURRENT COMMUTER LINE-UP. (Long distance trains have been moved to Penn Station, what was left of them.)
For while, not counting rapid transit, Flinders Street Staion, Melborn, Australia, had the most arrivals and departures. But GCT still handled more people. Charing Cross, LOndon, also had more arrivals and departure, with both its own terminating trains and all trains that temrinate at Waterloo Station (London) also stopping at Charing Cross. But GCT still handled more people.
At the present moment, not conting rapid transit, according to friend David Read, see his article in TRAINS, the new Berlin Central Station is the busiest in the World.
Mark, that's right. Your turn. The first elevated railway will keep. -- Mike
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ma/ma1200/ma1240/photos/076633pv.jpg
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/ma/ma1200/ma1299/photos/076652pv.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/1/8/9918.1186722000.jpg
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/0/4/8404.1186722000.jpg
I believe NYC's nose was bent out of shape because the Brhamans of Boston beat them to the El.
wanswheel What was the busiest train station in the world in the 19th and 20th centuries and is still one of Amtrak's busiest stations? And for Dave or anyone even half as knowledeable about city transit, what was the first elevated railway in the world? Mike
What was the busiest train station in the world in the 19th and 20th centuries and is still one of Amtrak's busiest stations? And for Dave or anyone even half as knowledeable about city transit, what was the first elevated railway in the world?
Mike,
Would that be South Station in Boston which was opened in January 1899.?
A double-fault! My bads! - a.s.
http://pro.corbisimages.com/images/BE043728.jpg?size=67&uid={c357c692-ca47-4bc7-ad01-1e917605b89b}
A fine station but it wasn't there in 1899. World's first elevated railway was in the USA.
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