This rairoad bought 2 single unit diesel railcars and one two-unit diesel railcar train. Where did the cars and train run at first, and where did they eventually end up?
Susquahana, Paterson - Lincoln Tunnel Transfer Station, ending Butler - Jersey City
Illinois Central -
2 car unit: Land 'o Corn - Chicago to Waterloo, IA
Single car units: Illini - Chicago to Carbondale and Miss Lou - Jackson MS to New Orleans
Sold to NYS&W
Mark
KCSfan Illinois Central - 2 car unit: Land 'o Corn - Chicago to Waterloo, IA Single car units: Illini - Chicago to Carbondale and Miss Lou - Jackson MS to New Orleans Sold to NYS&W Mark
and NYS&W split the Land o' Corn into two separate units. Your question, Mark. Dave got the destination but not the origin RRs.
In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them?
KCSfan In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them? Mark
Kind of a not so wild guess: EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939? I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs.
Thx IGN
narig01 KCSfan In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them? Mark Kind of a not so wild guess: EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939? I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs. Thx IGN
No pun intended but you're on the right track IGN. FM supplied the opposed piston 800 hp (OP800) diesel engines but another firm was the builder. Also in what service did the Southern use use these engines? You need to tweak your answer just a bit.
KCSfan narig01 KCSfan In what year did the Southern Ry acquire its first diesel motive power? Who was the builder and what type of units were these? In what service did the SR place them? Mark Kind of a not so wild guess: EMD's FT? 1940. The FM railcars OP800 in 1939? I did not think Southern had bought any new power during the depression. And I do not remember Southern having any EMC doodlebugs. Thx IGN No pun intended but you're on the right track IGN. FM supplied the opposed piston 800 hp (OP800) diesel engines but another firm was the builder. Also in what service did the Southern use use these engines? You need to tweak your answer just a bit. Mark
Built by St Louis. Baggage-RPO. I've been trying to get to my copy of diesel spotters guide(its somewhere just can't get to it).
I was trying to remember the entry. I finally looked at the wikepedia entry. What I do remember is that Southern had a bad time of it during the 1920's and the following depression. As a result (I think) they missed the doodlebugs, early switchers, and early streamliners. The 1920's and 30's were the times when a lot of experimentation and prototype equipment was built to try the concept.
Southern by way of contrast did not have the money to buy even used equipment. In addition being down south they did not have to worry about smoke abatement in the larger cities of the north.
By the end of WW II the majority of the steam locomotives on Southern were close on 30 years old. Reequipping with steam after seeing the benefits of diesel locomotives was more then an obvious choice.
As I remember Southern did not have much if any of the "Super" power(2-8-4, 4-8-4 or larger) nor any articulated locomotives.
As I recall, and I cannot be more specific at this time, Southern did have some articulated engines, which were used primarily in southwest Virginia.
I was astounded to learn that the Seaboard also had articulated engines because I had never thought of it as a road that needed such.
Johnny
narig01 Built by St Louis. Baggage-RPO. I've been trying to get to my copy of diesel spotters guide(its somewhere just can't get to it).
Close enough. St Louis Car Co. was the builder of the six cab/RPO/baggage units which headed the Vulcan, Joe Wheeler, Goldenrod, Cracker and another un-named train that that the Southern placed in service in 1939. The next question is yours IGN.
Remembering, not referenced:
During WWII, N&W engines were sometimes used west of Bristol, Va-Tn....
SBD had some 2-6-6-4s that were built before N&W's 1200's, and they migrated to the P&WV where they acquired for fallen rock deflection weird, rather, unique pilots which looked like they were pushing the top of a horizontal V made of a couple of pieces of rail.
Above is just recollection; likewise this: SBD wanted to run frt trns that needed more than 10 drivers at speeds which technology couldn't diminish dynamic augment enough. Splitting the drivers into two groups allowed correct counter balancing and high(er) speed bigger trains.
KCSfan narig01 Built by St Louis. Baggage-RPO. I've been trying to get to my copy of diesel spotters guide(its somewhere just can't get to it). Close enough. St Louis Car Co. was the builder of the six cab/RPO/baggage units which headed the Vulcan, Joe Wheeler, Goldenrod, Cracker and another un-named train that that the Southern placed in service in 1939. The next question is yours IGN. Mark
Two for the Cracker--Atlanta-Brunswick day train (and they also handled the overnight Atlanta-Brunswick sleeper between Jesup and Brunswick); one for the Joe Wheeler--Tuscumbia-Chattanooga-Oakdale day train; three for the Goldenrod--Birmingham-Mobile day train--and the Vulcan--Chattanooga-Meridian day train.
I know this last assignment looks odd, but as well as I can tell from the November, 1939, timetable, the actual assignment had the unit that came into Birmingham in the morning from Chattanooga on the Vulcan left for Mobile on the Goldenrod 15 minutes later, and the unit from Meridian on the Vulcan continued to Chattanooga 2:45 later. Indeed, the timetable shows a change of trains in Birmingham for the Vulcan, complete with different train numbers (19-17 sb and 18-20 nb). Southbound, there was a wait in Birmingham of 6:35. The unit from Mobile on the Goldenrod left Birmingham on the Vulcan 1:25 later.
These schedules did not exist in the October, 1938, timetable. What did exist is beyond the view of this post, except I will state that there was no through day train between Asheville and Cincinnati (you had to change in Knoxville and Oakdale).
An interesting thing (to me, at least) about the Joe Wheeler's schedule: it connected in Oakdale with a day train between Cincinnati and Asheville. This gave three (count them) trains between Asheville and Knoxville: The Asheville-Cincinnati train, a Salisbury-Knoxville train, and the Carolina Special.
If you wanted a single seat day ride between Cincinnati and Chattanooga, you could take the Royal Palm, which left Cincinnati one hour after the Asheville train left, and arrive in Chattanooga ten minutes after the Joe Wheeler arrived; northbound, you could take the Royal Palm 1:45 after the Confederate general left, and arrive in Cincinnati 10 minutes after the Asheville train arrived. You also would have meal, lounge, and first class service on the Florida train.
Incidentally, in December of 1967 or 1968, I saw the train up from Mobile in Birmingham, and the engine was lettered Vulcan. Of course, by this time there was no more train named Vulcan.
The Vulcan statue, so far as I know, is still in Birmingham.
next question?
My apoligies for not getting back sooner. I hate to throw another traction question.
The question:
As best as I can count I counted 16 operations in the US using 11,000 volt 25 cycle(11Kv 25Hz) electrifi-cation. This includes successor operations. This is to say either they: A. Ran trains or B.had trackage with.
Names please: The winner will be who places the most first.
1. AMTRAK, 2. CONRAIL, 3. PENN CENTRAL, 4. PENNSYLVANIA, 5. NEW YORK NEW HAVEN AND HARTFORD, 6. BOSTON AND MAINE, 7. GREAT NORTHERN, 8. VIRGINIAN, 9. NORFOLK AND WESTERN, 10. NEW JERSEY TRANSIT, 11. METRO NORTH, 12. CONNECTICUT DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, 13. LONG ISLAND RAILROAD (BAY RIDGE FREIGHT BRANCH WITH THEIR 11000 VOLT SWITCHERS), 14. MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, 15. SOUTHEAST PENNSYLVANIA TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY, 16. NEW YORK CONNECTING RAILROAD, 17. NEW YORK WESTCHESTER AND BOSTON, 18. MUSKEGUM ELECTRIC (FREIGHT MINING OPERATION SOUTH OF CLEVELAND)
I can't beat Dave's list but there are a few notes. Metro North wasn't created until after CDOT converted the ex-NH lines to 12,500 V 60 hz. Muskingum was the first 25 KV 60 Hz electrification. And while Dave got SEPTA, he missed half of the underpinnings - Reading Co.
I have this idea stuck in my head that I can't confirm until I get home but I think the Rock Island Southern was also 11,500 VAC 25 HZ.
You are correct about Reading, or Philadelphia and Reading, and I remembered that five minutes after leaving the computer terminal. ButI think you are wrong about Metro North, CDOT converted the power after Metro North had operated with Cos Cob power for some time. I was a reverse commuter on the Harlem Div. at the time and also used the New Haven Line both when giving my annual lecture at Yale and when volunteering at Branford, now the Shore Line Trolley Museum, East Haven and Branford. My memory is that Amtrak's GG-1's continued to run to New Haven even after Metro North took over operation of the commuter service and, with ConnDot the physical plant. When Amtrak had enough AEM-7's to replace the GG-1's east of Penn Station, then the conversion to all purchased power and 60Hz could take place, but not before. Also. Metro North - ConnDot needed enough M-2's to completely replace the 4400's, the washboards, which also saw Metro North service for a while. The 4400's could have been converted to 60Hz, easily, but were not.
You are correct abouit Muskingum, and thanks for the correct spelling. What was the Erie's electrification?
But to recap:
Amtrak: Intercity pasenger service, locomotive-hauled, push-pull, and mu.
Conrail: Intercity and commuter passemger service, locomotive-hauled, and mu
Penn Central, Intercity and commuter passenger service, locomotive-hauled, and mu, and frieght
Pennsylvania, Intgercity and commuter passenger service, locomotive-hauled, and mu, and frieght
New Haven, intercity and commuter passenger service, locomotive-hauled, and mu, and frieght
Reading commuter service, mu
NYW&Boston commuter service, mu, limited freight service
Metro Nroth and ConnDot, commuter service, locomotive hauled, push-pull, mu, the first two diesel under wire and electric only on dc at GCT and approach. mu only might be a better designation
SEPTA commuter service, mu
Maryland commuter service, mu (back to the MP54 days) and push-pull
Great Northern freight and long-distance passenger (tunnel and grades)
Norfolk and Western and Virginian freight (passenger remained with steam) (grades)
New YOrk Connecting Phusical Plant Only no trains of its own
Long Island Freight switching at Bay Ridge, owner of Bay Ridge line used by NH freights
New Jersey Transit commuter service, mu and push-pull, locomotive-hauled
Boston and Maine long distance passenger and freight (tunnel)
18
I had a date of 1981 in my notes for the voltage/frequency change by CDOT, though it appears it was in 1985, after the MNCR takeover (1983). Last GG1 operation by Amtrak was in 1981, by NJT in 1983.
The Erie electrified the line from Rochester to Mount Morris NY in 1907 for passenger service only at 11KVAC 25 Hz. It lasted until 1934.
I was able to confirm the Rock Island Southern at 11KV 25 Hz. That might explain the loss of three ex-WB&A cars to fire (WB&A had used 3300 V 25 Hz.)
Muskingum Electric is a 60 cycle railroad(owned by a power company).
I forgot about ConnDOT.
Dave one more and you should remember it, as got me looking into it a while back. It was the first Westinghouse installation of high voltage AC on a railroad.
I think the last Amtrak GG-1 was probably a few months after the MNCR takeover, and it may have been a run to or from New Haven at that, but the real delay was in replacing the washboards, and I wondered why they were not converted. Possibly rust was too prevalent to make them worth saving. In fact possibly they coexisted with the M2's for a while and then it was a later order, in time for the power conversion, that replaced t hem. Anyway, happy to add the Erie, interurban passenger and freight service, and Rock Island Southern, interurban passenger and freight service. Total up to 20!
I think I need to get my grey cells checked. I forgot about Rock Island Southern also.
The reason why the GG1's were supposed to be replaced is they have 25 cycle AC motors. One of the upgrades to the Northeast corridor is the conversion to 60 cycle so that commercial power could be used without conversion(remember New Haven's failure prone Cos Cob).
In addition the G's have several hundred gallons of PCB(polychlorinated biphenyl) coolant. If I remember correctly any museum that accepted a GG1 had to have a remediation for the PCB's. And if you wanted to be able to run one, you had to first remove the PCB's. I would suspect Amtrak and Conrail may have had problems on account of spilled PCB's outside Washington DC, in Delaware, and at Enola, Pa were the G's were serviced. Before the 1970's not a lot of people were concerned about chemical spills that did not kill or injure you then and their. By the time Amtrak and NJTransit were looking at the retirement of the G's PCB's were a major environmental concern.
The "Washboards" used rectifiers and I think 600 volt motors(don't quote me on that though) and would have been an easy conversion. PCB transformers may have been a concern as well. Did any make it to museums?
Oh and your question
From what I was reading elsewhere I think many of the washboards were retired with mercury arc rectifiers. Some where converted to solid state rectifiers(they last a lot longer).
The other thing about the washboards or 4400's is the construction was a composite steel / stainless construct. Pullman Standard(P-S) did this after WWII as I understand. The thing I remember about P-S cars with this kind of construction. I was shown a cut apart section were the inside was rusting away inside the sandwich. P-S used cor-ten steel(I was told) with stainless. This is chemically a very bad mix as the cor-ten steel forms a protective layer of rust when exposed to the elements. But this layer over time is one of the few ways to induce corrosion in stainless.
At least that is what I remember being told about a couple of P-S cars I saw being restored many years ago. Again don't quote me on this as I am no expert.
The problem with running them on 60Hz is that the autotransformers would overheat because of hysteresis loss increase at the higher frequency. Also the transformer efficiency would drop slightly. My solution would be to reconfigure the motors so that each pair on one truck would be in series, and then retap the autotransformers for double voltage, half the output current. Then reconfigure the control circuits and use new diodes for the higher voltage, and hysteresis loss would be reduced (depends on current, not voltage). Less overall current in the autotransformer. But they probably would have replaced the transformers, and the new ones would be smaller and lighter, since less steel in necessary at the higher frequency.
New question: We mentioned the elevated shuttle from the old Grand Central Depot to the Third Avenue elevated as the shortest heavy rapid transit route ever operated in North America. Now, what was the shortest route ever operated by a commuter railroad? Hint: It was temporary, but lasted about a year.
I must modify my question. The shortest route (undoubtedly current) is the Princeton branch of NJT. The route I am looking for may be slightly (but not much) longer, and was similar in being without intermediate stops. It was a temporary route and was needed because a temporary diversion passed an important station.
Hint: The route, and one so short must be called a shuttle, was diesel powered. But today one can travel between endpoints under wire if one so chooses, but possibly without a ticket or with a charge for a ticket much greater than the value of the trip. The equipment used for the shuttle was similar to off-peak regular trains of the commuter operation and not very much different from commuter trains using the tracks today.
more hints: One of the two stations has been replaced by a newer structure with two high-platforms, but the station at the time of the Shuttle operation was buit with three platforms to serve five tracks, but most years one platform was not used and trains did not stop at the one track that platform was built to serve. At the time that platform was put into use it served trains (train?) of a different railroad than the other four tracks and two platforms. That was the track the shuttle used, although before its temporary operation, byu far the tgreater number of trains used the other four tracks.
The shuttle was meant for railroad passengers. Before, during the shuttle's operation, and today, most people just traveling between the two endpoints would use electric railway transit, and not the railroad operation, even though the transit option requires one change.
Again, the shuttle that is the correct answer was operated only during major reconstruction in a city that has commuter rail, Amtrak both diesel and electric, and electric mass transportation as well as the usual buses. Someone must be able to get the right answer!
I am just guessing but will say the shuttle operated in Boston during the Big Dig. If that isn't it I don't have a clue as to its identity or location.
You are partly right, in that Boston and only Boston was the location. But the Big Dig for auto traffic through downtown Boston was not the only major reconstruction (tunnel replacing an eyesore elevated highway). There was another, with a different structure torn down, one which many regarded as an eyesore, but many railfans loved.
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