Also weren't the Q's and QX's not allowed in the subway because they were wood body cars?
Again just throwing something out there.
Thx IGN
rcdye, you have the answer so go and state it. I said the train I saw in 1939 would not have been there a year later in 1940, although there would have been service earlier in the evening, but with a different destination sign and no statement about connections whatsoever..
One other hint/ Note that 129th Street was a destination, a terminal point, for both 3rd Avenue and 2nd Avenue local trains. But all rush hour expresses skipped the stop, and it was considered a local station.
So it is possible for a terminal to still be a local station. All that is necessary are the crossovers to permit reversal of direction.
However, it is a fact that Queens-bound 2nd Avenue trains, local or rush hours express, did all make one local stop before going across the bridge to Queens.
This is one of the articles I found on the 2nd Av El:
http://thethirdrail.net/0107/cohen1.html
Q-cars were allowed into the underground Flushing station, and so were the cars they replaced, the 1300 series composite steel and wood convertables. 2nd Avenue elevated cars ran only to Willets Point Blvd. This was true if they ran through to a southern destination (South Ferry via 2nd Avenue local during non-rush hours and to City Hall, express in the rush hour direction, during rush hours, or were only a connection, Sundays and evenings after rush hours. Saturday late afternoons/) (Astoria trains ran local on 2nd Avenue at all times and went to City Hall when Corona trains went to South Ferry and went to South Ferry when Corona trains went to City Hall.) As far as I can tell, only gate cars were used on 2nd Avenue Queens service, the MUDoorControl IRT remodelled el cars were only used on Manhattan-Bronx routes.
Third Rail's map fails to show that 2nd Avenue locals ran to South Ferry as well as City Hall. All expresses (Freeman St., Bronx Park-local in the Bronx, Corona-Willets Pt. Blv-local in Queens) ran to and from City Hall.
The Budd Company's ideas for RDCs included using them in locomotive-hauled trains so they could be cut out and run as part of accompanying services. Only two railroads ordered their RDCs with the steam lines required to do this. Which companies were these, and where did they do it? One of the two companies also hauled a strange non-RDC trailer on a different route.
daveklepper Question: I was 7+1/2 years old when attending the 1939 New York Worlds Fair. Usually, we went home via the INS subway's special WF temporary branch, connecting through Forest Hills yard to the Queens main line at Continental Ave Station. Going meant taking the CC south from 86th St. to 42nd., walking through the underpass to the northbound platform, then the E to Continental Avenue, and then the GG, which was extended to the Fair during the Fair's open hours. Going home about 10:30pm, the trip was simplified by a through S for Special that ran from the Fair to Hudson Terminal, making all E train stops from Continental Avenue on. But one evening at my insistence we used the Willets Point Station at the main entrance used at the time by both BMT and IRT trains. Going to the southbound platform, a train came in to a stop, and the conductor shouted "Connections to the North Only" several times. What was that train? What kind of equipment did it have? Was it there the next summer, 1940, witht he Fair open? Was it there for the Fair some 22 years later? If I had boarded that train, what would I have had to do to get to my destination on the west side of Manhattan at 86th Street? (Several alternatives, the fastest involving an additional fare) What train did I board and how did I travel to West 86th Street on one fare?
Question: I was 7+1/2 years old when attending the 1939 New York Worlds Fair. Usually, we went home via the INS subway's special WF temporary branch, connecting through Forest Hills yard to the Queens main line at Continental Ave Station. Going meant taking the CC south from 86th St. to 42nd., walking through the underpass to the northbound platform, then the E to Continental Avenue, and then the GG, which was extended to the Fair during the Fair's open hours. Going home about 10:30pm, the trip was simplified by a through S for Special that ran from the Fair to Hudson Terminal, making all E train stops from Continental Avenue on.
But one evening at my insistence we used the Willets Point Station at the main entrance used at the time by both BMT and IRT trains. Going to the southbound platform, a train came in to a stop, and the conductor shouted "Connections to the North Only" several times.
What was that train? What kind of equipment did it have? Was it there the next summer, 1940, witht he Fair open? Was it there for the Fair some 22 years later?
If I had boarded that train, what would I have had to do to get to my destination on the west side of Manhattan at 86th Street? (Several alternatives, the fastest involving an additional fare)
What train did I board and how did I travel to West 86th Street on one fare?
I found this last nite and was in the process of posting my response when I fell asleep this morning(which I posted when I got back online).Sorry for the delay. I think it explains much:
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-1920-elevated.gif
This map shows much more clearly the South Ferry connection. The Seaman's Bank map as you said is not quite as clear. This track map also shows a bunch of other things like the 34th st ferry shuttle and the 42nd St elevated shuttle to Grand Central.
One was I would think Rock Island. I can rememeber seeing many pictures of an RDC in the middle of a train(the Twin Cities Rocket?).
The other New York Central. The connections from Messina, NY to Buffalo?
Strange non-RDC trailer. I'll give this quotation : "The LIRR voided their warranty with the Budd Company as a result of the practice of coupling a “ping-pong” car to the RDC."
From here: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirr_rdc.htm
Rgds IGN
Found a picture of strange: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/Budd/RDC2-Trailer-SoHampton-1956.jpg
narig01 One was I would think Rock Island. I can rememeber seeing many pictures of an RDC in the middle of a train(the Twin Cities Rocket?). The other New York Central. The connections from Messina, NY to Buffalo? Strange non-RDC trailer. I'll give this quotation : "The LIRR voided their warranty with the Budd Company as a result of the practice of coupling a “ping-pong” car to the RDC." From here: http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirr_rdc.htm Rgds IGN
Rock Island was one, using the RDC to extend a train south on the line to Texas. NYC only did it regularly in Michigan with an Ann Arbor-Detroit car that was carried in the other direction on a regular MC train.
The Rock's strange trailer was a prewar low-roof Rocket observation that had a bagage room cut into its back end - but they left the solarium! RI also had 30 ft RPO compartments on their RDC3's to carry crates of live chicks.
A picture of the Baggage-observation (probably on the Cherokee, though it was modifed to use with the RDC) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1928554
There were a bunch of railroads that pulled ordinary trailers with RDCs - voiding the warranty. C&EI, M&St. L., C&O and LIRR spring to mind. C&EI put a propane heater in a P-S coach to use on the Meadowlark. C&O pulled a heavyweight baggage-mail behind a pair of ex-M&St. L RDC4's.
Your Q, IGN
The name Zephyr is associated with Chicago, Burlington & Quincy. IE Pioneer Zephyr, Ak Sar Ben Zephyr. However one long distance train, albeit with a feminine sounding name, was not run by Burlington.
Name the train, end points and railroad.
I should reword this a little.
One long distance train had, albeit with a feminine sounding name, and the Zephyr name in it, was not run by Burlington.
Are you referring to "The Streetcar Named Zephyrette" (an article in Trains)? After buying two RDC's the WP ran them in triweekly service between Oakland and Salt Lake City under the name Zephyrette. The article made me want to ride the train.
Johnny
The answer ties in rather nicely with some prior posts, the train was WP's "Zephyrette", which was an RDC that ran on a tri-weekly schedule between Salt Lake and Oakland.
Deggesty Are you referring to "The Streetcar Named Zephyrette" (an article in Trains)? After buying two RDC's the WP ran them in triweekly service between Oakland and Salt Lake City under the name Zephyrette. The article made me want to ride the train.
I was trying to think of something that could be obfuscated. It was that or another traction question.
The item I read about the train was by the late Hal Carstens. He also pointed out that the hostesses on the California Zephyr had the same title. And then wondered if anyone had ever asked "Hey Budd?"
Anyway Johnny your question.
IGN (International Great Northern?), your second posting did clarify the question for me.
The February, 1950, Guide shows four roads operating car ferry service across Lake Michigan. The ferries were operated between four ports in Michigan and one port in Michigan and four ports in Wisconsin, with a total of nine routes. Name the roads and the routes each one operated. Also, which road used two docks in which city? Which road did not carry passengers on its ferries?
Johnny, I don't have a 1950 OG but a couple of years earlier the following cross lake ferry routes are shown in the Guides.
Ann Arbor RR - Frankfort, MI to Manitowoc, Marinette, Kewaunee and Manistique
Pere Marquette RR - Ludington MI to Milwaukee, Manitiwoc and Kewaunee
Grand Trunk (CN) - Muskegon, MI to Milwaukee - A 1946 OG listing indicates limited passenger accommodations are available so I suspect this was the route which no longer carried passengers by 1950.
Additionally the CP operated a ferry service between Milwaukee and Ft. McNicoll and Owen Sound on Lake Huron's Georgian Bay.
Mark
Mark, you have omitted one road, and the GTW still had limited passenger accomodations. Also, you not tell us which road used two different docks in one of its ports.
From the CP's map in the issue I quoted it had no service into Milwaukee, but still had steamship service between Ft. McNicoll and Owen Sound and Port Arthur; no schedules were shown, perhaps because there was no service in February.
Johnny, I think the Pennsylvania RR's ferry service between Muskegon and Milwaukee may still have been in operation in 1950. If so, it's the one I had previously omitted and would be the ferry route that was freight only. The road that used two different docks at one of its ports was either the Ann Arbor or Pere Marquette. I don't know which it was but will guess it was the Ann Arbor at Frankfort.
Mark, you are wrong: the Pere Marquette/C&O used two docks at Milwaukee. I really should have written "slip", and not "dock." The morning trip from Ludington docked (slipped in?) at the Jones Island Slip, and returned to Ludington from there; the other trips used the "St. Paul Slip, foot of Maple Street."
The PRR was still operating (according to the Guide) the service in 1950, and it did not offer passenger service. Some of its schedules had the same departure times as the GTW's did, but there are enough differences to indicate that the PRR did have its own service. Incidentally, I had not been aware of this route until I glanced at the PRR's map in the Guide.
You had no competition (did no one else have the slightest idea?), so you are again burdened with coming up with another question.
This streamlined single unit motor car was the only one of its kind owned by a certain major railroad. During its lifetime it ran first on a branch line connecting with one of the roads fleet of streamlined trains. After the discontinuance of passenger service on that branch it ran for several more years on a different route as the remnant of a discontinued member of the roads named streamlined fleet. What type of car was this, who was the car's builder and what were the two routes over which it operated?
On its original route it was not uncommon for heavy winter snow drifts to prevent the operation of this motor car requiring a substitue steam powered train to be run in its place. This was not a problem on the other route to which it was later reassigned.
WAG Union Pacific and the McKeen Railcar?
The car was a Budd RDC and it was its configuration, mail, baggage, passenger, that made it unique.
The owner was the Rock Island, and its second use was from Mempjs to Tucomcari relacing the Chacto (Sp?) Rocket. I am unsure of its first assignment, but it was probably a route out of Mineeapolis.
Sorry guys but the motor car was not an RDC or a McKeen and the train did not run on either the RI or the UP. It had a set of controls at both ends of the car so it never had to be turned.
The PRR ferry service was actually a "trackage rights" operation on the GTW ferries. To get around cabotage restrictions, GTW and PRR set up a joint subsidiary known as the Grand Trunk Milwaukee Car Ferry Transportation Co. No real operational changes were made and the joint subsidiary provided a fig leaf to get around the prohibition of foreign (Canadian, in this case) ownership of a domestic steamship operation.
This car was designed to seat 34 and additional bench seating had to be installed in the baggage/express compartment to help accommodate WW2 passenger loads which sometimes approached 100 persons.
Missouri Pacific's ACF MotoRailer 670 originally used between Union and Lincoln Neb. as a connection for the Missouri River Eagle, replaced by bus service about 1954. Later used as the Delta Eagle from Helena to McGhee Arkansas (connection to Memphis), where snowdrifts weren't as much of a problem as in Nebraska. Out of service in 1960. Known as the "Eaglet".
rcdrye Missouri Pacific's ACF MotoRailer 670 originally used between Union and Lincoln Neb. as a connection for the Missouri River Eagle, replaced by bus service about 1954. Later used as the Delta Eagle from Helena to McGhee Arkansas (connection to Memphis), where snowdrifts weren't as much of a problem as in Nebraska. Out of service in 1960. Known as the "Eaglet".
Excellent answer Rob - complete and 100% accurate. Though not an official name, from 1942 when it was first placed in service the 670 was known by railroaders and locals alike as the Eaglette or Eaglet. Next question please.
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