CSSHEGEWISCH I will guess that the line in question is the Clover Leaf (Toledo, St. Louis & Kansas City), between Toledo and East St. Louis. The line was absorbed by NKP and parts of it are operated by NS and various short lines.
I will guess that the line in question is the Clover Leaf (Toledo, St. Louis & Kansas City), between Toledo and East St. Louis. The line was absorbed by NKP and parts of it are operated by NS and various short lines.
Paul, my OG's show the NKP mileage between Toledo and E. StL to be just a bit over 450 miles which, as you'll see from the following hint, is considerably shorter than the line I am looking for.
The line in question was (and is today) 800+ miles in length.
Mark
This line was not in the US and that's the last hint I will give. If no one gets it by tonight I'll post the answer then.
The answer is: Mexican National Railroad between Mexico City and Nuevo Laredo a distance of 803 miles. The Mexican National later became a part of the NdeM, then the TFM and today is the mainline of the KCSdeM.
And the winner by a nose is: Flying Crow whose 550 mile Fremont Elkorn and Missouri Valley line between Omaha and Rapid City just barely edged out rcdrye's 540 mile Tyler-Wyatt, MO line of the Texas and St. Louis.
The next question is yours Buck.
Mark, you are very fair. But when did the MNRR convert to standard gauge?
daveklepper Mark, you are very fair. But when did the MNRR convert to standard gauge?
Dave, thank you for your kind words. According to my source it was standard gauged in 1903.
Woo...ok then.
This train is generally recognized as the FIRST to have arrived at newly opened Kansas City Union Station on November 1, 1914. Just the name will do.
De Lux? (AT&SF)
Even tho the Deluxe was Extra Fine Extra Fast and Extra Fare
Nope
FlyingCrow Woo...ok then. This train is generally recognized as the FIRST to have arrived at newly opened Kansas City Union Station on November 1, 1914. Just the name will do.
The Katy Flyer?
ZO...you are on a roll. Katy Flyer is correct. Of course I wasn't there for the first one into Union Station, but I was there for the LAST one.
Take it away!!!
FlyingCrow ZO...you are on a roll. Katy Flyer is correct. Of course I wasn't there for the first one into Union Station, but I was there for the LAST one. Take it away!!!
When the City of Miami, Dixie Flagler and South Wind were established, their schedules allowed a daily Jacksonville-Miami service on the same timeslot on the FEC. However, by 1950, the City of Miami started operating on a slightly different schedule, resulting in the Dixie Flagler/South Wind timeslot having a missing train every third day. The complexity of running these trains increased in the winter seasons of 1952 and 1953 when the South Wind and City of Miami started running every 2 out of 3 days, with the Dixie Flagler keeping its every-third day schedule. But, in the summer months of those years, all three trains were on an every third day schedule, with the City of Miami having its own timeslot. To maintain schedule consistency, the FEC operated an every-third-day Jacksonville-Miami train running on the Dixie Flagler/South Wind schedule. What was that FEC train?
Did FEC recycle the "Henry M. Flagler"?
rcdrye Did FEC recycle the "Henry M. Flagler"?
Nope....
Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued. The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser".
rcdrye Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued. The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser".
I wouldn't necessarily consider the Sunchaser a secondary train per. se., but the name I'm looking for was unique to the FEC.
East Coast Speical?
daveklepper East Coast Speical?
Nope....The East Coast Special existed in 1963, near the end of through passenger service on the FEC.
ZephyrOverland rcdrye Then I would guess they would recycle the name of one of the secondary trains that had been discontinued. The only one that comes to mind is the "Sunchaser". I wouldn't necessarily consider the Sunchaser a secondary train per. se., but the name I'm looking for was unique to the FEC.
Oh, I wish I were at home! (I expect to get back there in nne days) then I could probably find the name of the train.
Johnny
Gulf Stream and Royal Poinciana
Since I helped Larry Goolsby with both his passenger books, I feel like I'm cheating a bit. Are these what you are seeking?
Buck
FlyingCrow Gulf Stream and Royal Poinciana Since I helped Larry Goolsby with both his passenger books, I feel like I'm cheating a bit. Are these what you are seeking? Buck
The Gulf Stream was the train I was looking for. This train and the Royal Poinciana were basically catchall trains for the FEC running in different schedules and time frames since the 1920's, handling through cars (and sometimes through trains) from the north and northwest. The Gulf Stream operated southbound only in the summer of 1951 and both directions in the summers of 1952 and 1953 in every-third-day incarnations to help maintain the timeslot being held down by the South Wind/Dixie Flagler.
Buck, the next question is yours.
Incidentally, when the three were inaugurated, they were given only about two hours to be turned in Miami. Just think of the pressure to get them turned so they could leave for Chicago on time. They were in Chicago overnight, but even then there was not much time for servicing.
Buck, what do you have to cause us to scratch our heads/
Hey, Gang. Been upgrading the system. Got it all in a working great now, so stand by
Ok, Long gone and mostly forgotten, this road was once considered an integral part of what could be described as the "35th Parallel Project".
Since the latitude of both Memphis and Oklahoma City is 35 deg. N I'll guess the Choctaw Route of the Rock Island.
The question regarding trains' frequencies of the three Chicago - Florida streamliners is answered by the relative size of the lightweight passenger equipment pool of the participating railroads.
The Tennesee Central was supposed to go Nashville to Knoxville, even if it never quite got there...
Rob's mention of the TC brought to mind another abandoned east-west line that closely followed the 35th parallel, namely the Nashville - Memphis line of the NC&StL.
Mark.
daveklepper The question regarding trains' frequencies of the three Chicago - Florida streamliners is answered by the relative size of the lightweight passenger equipment pool of the participating railroads.
That may be an issue but for the 1951 winter season, all three trains ran on a 2 out of 3 day schedule. It was only during the 1952 and 1953 winter seasons that the Dixie Flagler kept its 1 out of 3 day schedule run and the South Wind and City of Miami went on a 2 out of 3 day schedule. Also as a sidenote, the C&EI and L&N obtained a group of lightweight sleepers in 1954 but kept the Dixie Flagler on a year round 1 out of 3 day schedule.
Another explanation could be economics. Chicago-Florida seasonal train service ended in 1949, causing the City of Miami/Dixie Flagler/South Wind to receive sleepers (initially heavyweight ones) to make up some of the loss of the seasonal trains. Also, overall passenger loadings were dropping from the post WWII highs. In 1951 the railroads may have predicted the need for additional train service for the winter season, but not enough to require an additional daily train.
Also, I believe that the C&EI was trying to keep a tight rein on costs. While the other railroads had other lines to make money off of, the C&EI basically had one line - its Chicago-Evansville route, to derive the majority of its passenger revenues. They already pulled out of the Chicago-St. Louis market in 1949. They may have gotten financially burnt from running the Flagler 2 out of 3 days in 1951. So they may have felt that they were better off keeping the Flagler on the same schedule structure year round. Also, remember that the C&EI and the Dixie Route was the earliest line to reduce involvement in and eventually withdraw from the Chicago-Florida market by dropping the Dixieland (the Dixie Flagler's successor) in 1957.
I'll just jump in here and say...no correct answer on the 35th Parallel question yet. ZO sent me a personal message and said "Kansas Pacific". Nope.
The only other contender I can think of is the Quanah Acme & Pacific.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter