Miller Train Control was a system which caused the brakes to be applied if a train overran a signal set at Stop. The C&EI used it between Chicago and Danville. The GTW apparently used the C&EI between Thornton Jct.and Dolton.
Johnny
Johnny,
Absolutely right, but I don't think the GTW engines were equipped for Miller Train Control. I do know for a fact that around six EJ&E 2-8-2's were so equipped for operation on C&EI trackage. The Miller system of ATS lasted on the C&EI until 1952. Your turn to ask the next question.
Mark
Mark, it seems there was a total of 30 such 2-8-2s on the EJ&E roster.
http://www.ejearchive.com/page_steamroster.html
Excerpt from Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen's Magazine (1911)
The mechanism of the Miller System is so designed and constructed that it can be installed on any steam or electric road using automatic or manual block signals (with track circuit), and in no way changes standard conditions. To be at all times true with the track conditions; to automatically and positively control or stop the train when signals are at caution or stop position; to correct an automatic signal at clear failure, or a manual signal that has been pulled clear when there is danger in the block ahead; to automatically correct any inherent defects in the mechanism itself; to operate under all conditions of weather that permit the running of trains, and with all, to be so arranged that the engineer can proceed against the current of traffic, or handle his train under control when in terminals and running red signals, are all conditions the fulfillment of which are claimed for the Miller Train Control System. The failure of any part of track conditions that will cause an automatic block signal system to display caution or danger signals will cause this system to perform its function. There are no engine circuits, and the closing of the throttle and the application of the brakes are performed mechanically, the action being the same as if the engineer had performed those functions himself.
This system comprises a shoe and control mechanism on the engine and a stationary ramp, from 100 to 150 feet in length, in the center or at the side of the track. The ramp has a gradual rise of 1-1/2 inches in 50 feet. This ramp is electrically divided in the center and is energized by connection from track relay through circuit-breaker on signal. When the track conditions are safe and the signal clear, the train will proceed with no warning or application of brakes. In case there is danger in the block ahead, however, the track relay will open, the signal go to danger, and the ramp be de-energized. This condition will stop the train, and would also stop the train if the signal failed clear, because the connection would be true with relay or track conditions. Again, if the track condition was O. K. and the signal at danger, this system would be true with the signal, because the same circuit would be broken through circuit-breaker on signal, thereby not confusing the engineer with a stop signal and a clear ramp.
The absence of the ramp circuit allows the vertical movement of the shoe to carry a latch (which is always on the danger side) in the same direction, which in turn operates a bell crank that connects by a suitable rod with the cab mechanism; the rod running from bell crank to cab has a sliding connection that will prevent any injury to cab mechanism should there be an excessive movement of the shoe. To quote, the general master mechanic of one of our big railroads says: "I see no reason why it can not be applied to any of the different types of our locomotives, as it in no way will interfere with the operation thereof."
The cab mechanism is very simple and in no way interferes with the handling of the locomotive. The apparatus automatically handles the regular running valve, carrying it to a predetermined position. The same movement closes the throttle. The engineer releasing the brakes in the usual manner also releases the throttle-holding device. When the brakes are applied and the throttle closed they remain in that position until released by the engineer.
Excerpt from Locomotive Engineers Journal (1920)
A Real Safety First Appliance by C. F. Kline, Div. 100
In our September Journal is an item in regard to another fatal rear-end collision between passenger trains, and recommends flagging the same in automatic signal territory as in unprotected territory. This is all right so far as it goes, but no human being is perfect, and something might happen to the engineer of an oncoming train just at a critical moment. For instance, he might be struck and knocked unconscious by a mail crane, or perhaps death might suddenly overtake him. Suppose any of these things should occur to an engineer going up to a train ahead, or an open switch, or an open derail, and he, unfortunately, had a student fireman; the result would, of course, be a terrible disaster, and we all know these conditions are possible. It is not necessary to mention particular cases, for we all know of them, but I have in mind several accidents which have occurred in recent years in automatic block territory which could have been avoided even if the engineer of the oncoming train had been dead at his post, if the Miller Train Control system, now in use on the C. & E. I. railroad, were in operation there. The Chicago division of the C. & E. I. railroad, where I am running, and the Danville district between Danville and Dolton, are equipped with automatic signals, and in addition to this have the Miller Train Control system, operated by a combination of air and electricity. A ramp—which is a kind of elevated bed or platform—about 180 feet long, is laid at certain places alongside of the track and is energized with electricity from batteries in cisterns, the same as used for the automatic signals. A shoe hung on a hanger bar is fastened to frame of front tank truck and air and electric wire connections on up to the engineer's brake valve, where it is connected to a magnet and to the brake valve. In passing over the ramp alongside of the track the shoe is raised by contact with it, and if the ramp is energized with electricity the train goes on. But should there be a train in the block, an open switch, an open derail, or a broken rail, the ramp is "dead" and when the shoe raises the brake will apply, even if the engineer should be unconscious. At the same time this does not relieve the flagman from performing his duties. It is also strictly the rule that stop must be made if the ramp should be dead and the automatic signal in advance seen to be showing clear. There have been cases known here of automatic signal showing clear and ramp would set brakes, and upon investigation a train would be found in the block. I consider the Miller Train Control the best and safest flagman I have ever seen or heard of, and hope to see the day when all railroads will be equipped with it, or some other such device. The C. & E. I. railroad has 108 miles of this train control in service on double track and we appreciate the safety it provides, especially in a fog or other bad weather conditions.
KCSfan Your turn to ask the next question. Mark
Your turn to ask the next question.
Name the cities on both coasts, and name the railroads that carried the lines.
Tiebreaker: which train to the West Coast carried the most through cars each trip?
Extra credit: what advertisement spurred the railroads to begin offering through coast-to-coast service?
wanswheel Mark, it seems there was a total of 30 such 2-8-2s on the EJ&E roster.
Mike,
Wow, that's far more than I remembered and leads me to wonder why any, much less 30, EJ&E engines were so equipped. The C&EI/EJ&E connection was at Chicago Heights and from the time I was born in 1932 until 1955 I lived just a few miles west of the C&EI mainline. I often saw their trains at both Chicago Heights and Thornton but never saw an EJ&E engine on C&EI trackage. Perhaps the C&EI sometimes borrowed engines from the EJ&E to head their road freights which would be one explanation for the Miller T.C. on the EJ&E Mikes. But if they did I was never aware of it.
Later on tonight I'll have a bit more time to try to answer your questions but for now I'll take on the extra credit part. The ad that spurred the service was "A hog can cross the country without changing trains but you can't" or something to that effect. I believe that ad was the brainchild of Robert R. Young.
KCSfan Later on tonight I'll have a bit more time to try to answer your questions but for now I'll take on the extra credit part. The ad that spurred the service was "A hog can cross the country without changing trains but you can't" or something to that effect. I believe that ad was the brainchild of Robert R. Young. Mark
Deggesty In April of 1955, there were still ten through Pullman lines operated between the East Coast and the West Coast. Name the cities on both coasts, and name the railroads that carried the lines. Johnny
In April of 1955, there were still ten through Pullman lines operated between the East Coast and the West Coast.
OK I'll have a go at trying to name them.
NY - LA PRR/CNW/UP (WB - Penna Ltd/City of LA, EB - City of LA/The General)
NY - LA PRR/Santa Fe (Broadway Ltd/Super Chief)
NY - SF PRR/CNW/UP (Penna Ltd/SF Overland)
NY - SF PRR/Burlington/Rio Grande/WP (Penna Ltd/Califonia Zephyr)
NY - LA NYC/Santa Fe (20thCentury Ltd/Super Chief)
NY - LA NYC/CNW/UP (WB - The Chicagoan/City of LA, EB - City of LA/Commodore Vanderbilt)
NY - SF NYC/CNW/UP (WB - The Wolverine/SF Overland, EB - SF Overland/Lake Shore Ltd)
NY - SF NYC/Burlington/Rio Grande/WP (Lake Shore Ltd/California Zephyr)
Washington/LA B&O/Santa Fe (WB - The Shenandoah/Super Chief, EB - Super Chief/Capitol Ltd)
I've only come up with nine routes and will have to rely on you or someone else to identify the one that I've missed. I'd guess that the Super Chief carried the most coast to coast sleepers.
The Golden State at one time had a thru NY sleeper or mybe two, if my memory is correct.
Was there not a NY to LA via New Orleans PRR-SOU-SP Pullman route?
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
KCSfan I've only come up with nine routes and will have to rely on you or someone else to identify the one that I've missed. I'd guess that the Super Chief carried the most coast to coast sleepers. Mark
The Super Chief carried four cars that were operated through to/from the East Coast: Washington (B&O)-LA, NY(PRR)-LA, and two NY(NYC)-LA. I should have spoken of eleven lines, since the Central handled not only a 10-6 but also a 4-4-2 that went coast-to-coast.
The City of Los Angeles carried two cars, both NY(PRR & NYC)-LA.
The California Zephyr and City of San Francisco each had only one car at time, since the PRR and NYC cars to San Francisco ran only every other day. The scheduling was such that you could leave New York on either road every day, but the day of the month you left would determine which train took you to the West Coast.
In previous years, there were several other combinations, but, as I remarked, there were ten (actually eleven, with the two cars NYC-SFe) by this time. And then there were none until the SP-Sou-PRR routing that was inaugurated not long before Amtrak started up.
Rock Island, PRR and NYC ads show the Golden State as having New York sleepers, before 1955 of course.
http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T31/T3177/T3177-med.jpeg
http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T30/T3093/T3093-med.jpeg
http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2454/T2454-med.jpeg
C&O and Nickel Plate "hog" ad is on a scanned page of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette at Google Newspapers. To read it, click the square button with 4 arrows, then scroll sideways and down as necessary.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19460305&id=OgMNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=v2kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3236,4692878
DeggestyMark, you are right, so far. All of the nine you named are listed in the April, 1955, Guide. There is one more, and if no one comes up with it in a day or so, I'll tell you all.
The last route was the Washington-Sunset Route, which carried a 10-6 Washington-New Orleans-Los Angeles on the Crescent and the Sunset Limited. The roads, of course, were Southern, Atlanta and West Point, Western Railway of Alabama, Louisville and Nashville, and Southern Pacific.
Mark, I am sure you realized that you answered enough to be the winner, as you named almost all of those that were in effect at the time stated, and you did not suggest abandoned or future lines.
Next question.
What was the longest through sleeping car route east of the Mississippi River? Name the end point terminal cities and the train or trains which carried these sleepers.
KCSfan Next question. What was the longest through sleeping car route east of the Mississippi River? Name the end point terminal cities and the train or trains which carried these sleepers. Mark
Entirely east of the Mississippi River Boston to New Orleans via NYNH&H, PRR, Sou, A&WP, L&N. The primary train was the Crescent
Or Montreal to Tampa via CN, CV, NYNH&H, PRR, ACL The primary train was the Orange Blossom Special that also carried through Boston - Florida cars as well. This was a winter only car and it seems to me that at one time there was through Pullman service from Halifax to Florida If I have enough time this morning after a few hours sleep I will look that one up.
Goodnight to all
Al - in - Stockton
Those two come immediatly to mind in the middle of the night without looking them up in the guides.
Those are the only two that
In 1924, Quebec City to Miami on the Washingtonian and the Havana Special.
When I asked this question I actually had in mind routes that were entirely within the US but I failed to state that. I feel sure that one or another of the routes from Canadain cities were the longest but I don't know which one. Since I don't have info regarding these routes I'll have to rely on you guys to come up with the mileage to substantiate which was the longest. Sorry for the confusion.
KCSfanwanswheel Mark, it seems there was a total of 30 such 2-8-2s on the EJ&E roster. Mike, Wow, that's far more than I remembered and leads me to wonder why any, much less 30, EJ&E engines were so equipped. The C&EI/EJ&E connection was at Chicago Heights and from the time I was born in 1932 until 1955 I lived just a few miles west of the C&EI mainline. I often saw their trains at both Chicago Heights and Thornton but never saw an EJ&E engine on C&EI trackage. Perhaps the C&EI sometimes borrowed engines from the EJ&E to head their road freights which would be one explanation for the Miller T.C. on the EJ&E Mikes. But if they did I was never aware of it. Mark
EJ&E had trackage rights on C&EI into the Danville area to serve coal mines in that area, which would explain why EJ&E power was equipped with Miller Train Control. I'm not sure when the trackage rights operation was discontinued.
CSSHEGEWISCHEJ&E had trackage rights on C&EI into the Danville area to serve coal mines in that area, which would explain why EJ&E power was equipped with Miller Train Control. I'm not sure when the trackage rights operation was discontinued.
Well, well. I have known that the SPV atlases are not 100% accurate, so I am not surprised to learn that the compilers did not include this old trackage right agreement. In many instances, the atlases will show not only current (as of publication) ownership and trackage rights, but also previous ownership and trackage rights. There must be some cutoff date as to how far back the information goes, for there certainly is no indication, for example, of what roads went into the NYC's route between Albany and Buffalo. I posited GTW because I knew that GTW used the Dearborn Street station, even though it was not shown in the atlas as having trackage rights from Thornton Jct.--and I forgot that the GTW used its own track from a junction with the CWI about 47th St. even though I rode the GTW from Chicago to Detroit in 1969 and now remember that we swung west before going south so we could go east.
KCSfanWhen I asked this question I actually had in mind routes that were entirely within the US but I failed to state that. I feel sure that one or another of the routes from Canadain cities were the longest but I don't know which one. Since I don't have info regarding these routes I'll have to rely on you guys to come up with the mileage to substantiate which was the longest. Sorry for the confusion.
The early birds beat me to it, since I get up at a decent time (0600), read the paper, eat breakfast, etc. before firing the computer up. I first thought, South Wind to Miami, and it was the longest of the three main Chicago-Miami routes (1559 miles, which probably includes going by East Palatka even though all but the local went on the cutoff {the cutoff saved 26 miles}) Then I thought there might have been a Boston-New Orleans line via Montgomery, which would have been 1582 miles, including the PRR's practice of including going into Broad Street and back out even when the trains did not actually go in and out but stopped at the 30th St. station. But Quebec City-Miami (2015 miles) certainly beats all that were strictly U.S.A.
Deggesty KCSfanWhen I asked this question I actually had in mind routes that were entirely within the US but I failed to state that. I feel sure that one or another of the routes from Canadain cities were the longest but I don't know which one. Since I don't have info regarding these routes I'll have to rely on you guys to come up with the mileage to substantiate which was the longest. Sorry for the confusion. The early birds beat me to it, since I get up at a decent time (0600), read the paper, eat breakfast, etc. before firing the computer up. I first thought, South Wind to Miami, and it was the longest of the three main Chicago-Miami routes (1559 miles, which probably includes going by East Palatka even though all but the local went on the cutoff {the cutoff saved 26 miles}) Then I thought there might have been a Boston-New Orleans line via Montgomery, which would have been 1582 miles, including the PRR's practice of including going into Broad Street and back out even when the trains did not actually go in and out but stopped at the 30th St. station. But Quebec City-Miami (2015 miles) certainly beats all that were strictly U.S.A. Johnny
Where is a statue of Cornelius Vanderbilt? When was it put there and where did it come from?
Mike
From a search it seems Grand Central Terminal (probably known by other names) is where the statue is presently located. The following links are interesting as they mention its history,
Maybe I might get to see it one day. [:)]
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/realestate/19scape.html?_r=1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/3435825389/
PS: Maybe searching is considered the easy way? Please inform.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
great western beat me to it. Yes, there is a statue of conelius vanderbuilt looking down Park Avenue south at the center of the south side of GCT (unless it has been removed recently, and I don't know why.) Saw it lots of times when I lived, worked, visted NYC. I'm not sure whether "The Commidore" passed on before or after GCT replaced GCDepot, but the statue was not assuradly there when he was alive. I was to commemorate him after he passed on. If his death occured before the Terminal was under construction then it probably stood at Grand Central Depot as well as the successor Grand Central Terminal. Incidentally, the Depot was not a Terminal becuase NYNH&H coaches from some of their trains could still be hauled by horses down to to their 24th Street and Park Avenue Terminal. I think this continued until up to the time that the 4th and Madison streetcar line was electrified or until construction of GCT commenced. At least all this is what I remember, and if someone has corrections, I'll be pleased to be educated.
great western beat me to it.
Hi Dave,
Not difficult for me to do. After all I am probably at least five hours, maybe more (no location on your Profile), than you. Unless you get up very early I can usually get here first. However, if you turn in late than maybe you can beat me to it.
It was interesting that the name of Cornelius Vanderbilt arose today. Last evening, reading the August 2009 issue of Back Track (a UK monthly railroad magazine similar to Classic Trains) an article concerning the UK Southern Railway Merchant Navy Class locos made reference to the steamship companies that the loco names commemorated.
Amongst the North American names were of course C.V. known as the 'Commodore' from his shipping interests, and J.P. Morgan.
Amongst the railroads mentioned were Canadian Pacific, Chesapeake and Ohio and the United Fruit Company (who shipped bananas to us outside of the two worlds wars.
I guess steamships are outside the scope of this Forum and posts but even so maybe the rolling stock which supplied the ships is not.
Food for thought!
http://www.clan-line.org.uk/index.htm
For those unfamiliar with this class of locos it will be found that they were built with a streamlined shrouding and known affectionately as Spamcans, but were later rebuilt to a conventional appearance.
Great Western, it's your turn. Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) put himself atop St. Johns Park Freight Station of the Hudson River Railroad in 1869. He moved uptown to Grand Central in 1929.
And I learned something! I didn't know that CV lived that long! How old was he when he died? And it was at St. John's Park and not at the old Grand Central Depot. The freight reminal at St. John's Park was of course torn down in 1929 or shortly after to make way for the new modern concrete elevated one in connection with the huge grade separation program. So that would explain why it was moved.
Are the Merchant Navy class the "Bullard Pacifics" that contunued to haul the Southern Bell byond the electrified zone up to the end of steam on the Southern Region? If so, I rode behind one in 1962. Also behind a Gresly A-4 Kingfisher between Aberdeen and Dundee.
Looking forward to your question.
Yes indeed the MN Class and the Battle of Britain Class locos were Bulleid Pacifics and ran to the non-electrified areas of South Western England.
Although I am a 'dyed-in-the-wool' Great Western aficionado I do have a soft spot for these locos as I live in a maritime part of England and was in the R.A.F. for a while.
I recently had the opportunity to ask a question ( I did in fact ask another one as well ) and feel that maybe someone else should have a turn but just in case that is not the way it works - here goes.
I am a Garden railroader (I am to be seen on the sister Forum here). A NJ manufacturer of 1:29 railroad models is currently producing 40ft. military boxcars. There are four types: U.S. Air Force, Navy, Army and Marine Corps.
My question is, therefore, how many of these cars were made for the American armed forces and what other types of military car could (can) be seen?
Great Western Yes indeed the MN Class and the Battle of Britain Class locos were Bulleid Pacifics and ran to the non-electrified areas of South Western England. Although I am a 'dyed-in-the-wool' Great Western aficionado I do have a soft spot for these locos as I live in a maritime part of England and was in the R.A.F. for a while. I recently had the opportunity to ask a question ( I did in fact ask another one as well ) and feel that maybe someone else should have a turn but just in case that is not the way it works - here goes. I am a Garden railroader (I am to be seen on the sister Forum here). A NJ manufacturer of 1:29 railroad models is currently producing 40ft. military boxcars. There are four types: U.S. Air Force, Navy, Army and Marine Corps. My question is, therefore, how many of these cars were made for the American armed forces and what other types of military car could (can) be seen?
Al in Stockton
Great Western My question is, therefore, how many of these cars were made for the American armed forces and what other types of military car could (can) be seen?
Great Western,
I have no idea how many of these cars were made but I am familiar with other types of cars made for military use in America during WW2. There were large numbers of troop sleepers and kitchen cars made for use on troop trains. There were also hospital cars for transporting wounded service men. As a boy I remember seeing all these types of cars running on the Illinois Central through my hometown.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter