Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

[AWP290]

No, Mark, but that is a good guess.

The situation I have in mind (three gauges) was on one railroad.  The Plant System may have had three gauges but on different railroads.  I'm not certain that they had 5' and 4' 8/12" gauges at the same time.  Maybe someone can tell us for certain.

Bob Hanson

[KCSfan]

Bob,

If you can believe Wikipedia, the Plant System bought the 5ft gauge Brunswick and Western in 1884 and didn't convert it to standard gauge until 1886. There may have been other roads that came into the Plant fold and remained broad gauge for a while until converted to standard.

Mark

[AWP290]

Mark -

First, you can't always believe Wikipedia, as anyone, with or without expertise, can add to or delete information.

The Plant System was just that - a system of several railroads.  The line I have in mind was one company, one railroad, with three divisions of three different gauges.  The divisions did connect, however, and form one continuous line of railroad something over 400 miles in length.

Bob Hanson

[AWP290]

Looks like we've stalled on this one. 

The answer is the Georgia Pacific Railway.  In the 1880's it operated three divisions of three different gauges.  Atlanta to Birmingham was 5' gauge, Birmingham to Columbus, MS, was 4' 8 1/2", and Columbus to Greenville, MS, was 3' gauge.

Mark, you came as close as anyone on this.  Please ask the next question.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

[KCSfan]

What railroad was dubbed "Hell either way taken (or travelled)" by its passengers? What were the end point terminals of the road?

Mark 

[daveklepper]

Rio Grande Southern to Telluride ("To hell you ride") from Durango or from Gunnison(?)

[KCSfan]

No, Dave, it wasn't the RGS or any other Colorado road for that matter. Try again.

Mark

[wanswheel]

Houston East & West Texas Railway and its Louisiana affiliate connected Houston and Shreveport, originally by a track of 3-foot gauge. Completed in 1886, converted to standard gauge in 1894, bought by Southern Pacific in1899.

Mike 

[KCSfan]

The HE&WT is the right road so light up a cigar and ask the next question Mike. It ran from Houston to the LA-TX state line at Logansport, LA where it connected with the affiliated H&S.

Mark 

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Houston East & West Texas Railway and its Louisiana affiliate connected Houston and Shreveport, originally by a track of 3-foot gauge. Completed in 1886, converted to standard gauge in 1894, bought by Southern Pacific in1899.

Mike 

The timetable is obviously from the period after the gauge was changed to standard gauge. In 1893, the single train (day) took thirteen hours in each direction. I wonder if the slow schedule was necessary to account for re-railing the engine or cars (the line was also known as the "Rabbit Line" because trains often jumped off the track). Also, I doubt that the engine known as "Rabbit" was still use after the gauge was made wider, especially at night, when jerks and stops would have been uncomfortable to sleeping passengers.

[wanswheel]

In 1942, the War Department built Camp Kilmer, the largest embarkation post in the U.S., with 29 miles of track and a terminal capacity of fifteen 20-car troop trains. What 3 railroads was Camp Kilmer connected to?

Mike

[FlyingCrow]

I'm going to take a stab here, Mike:

Pennsylvania RR

Philadelphia & Reading

Lehigh Valley

 

[henry6]

PRR for sure, the CNJ via their SouthernRRof NJ, and either the Union RR of NJ or the (Something) and Pemberton.

[wanswheel]

Buck, exactly right, PRR, RDG and LV. Your turn.

Camp Kilmer's rail connections are explained on page 5 of an 8-page newsletter on PDF at this link.

http://www.jhalpin.com/anonymous/mehs/3Q08news.pdf

In 1957, after Queen Elizabeth visited Ike, her B&O "Royal Blue" special from Washington to Staten Island needed to go through Camp Kilmer. More about that at this link.

http://jcrhs.org/B&O.html

The Twelve-Forty-Five by Sgt. Joyce Kilmer (K.I.A. 1918)

Within the Jersey City shed
The engine coughs and shakes its head,
The smoke, a plume of red and white,
Waves madly in the face of night.
And now the grave incurious stars
Gleam on the groaning hurrying cars.
Against the kind and awful reign
Of darkness, this our angry train,
A noisy little rebel, pouts
Its brief defiance, flames and shouts
And passes on, and leaves no trace.
For darkness holds its ancient place,
Serene and absolute, the king
Unchanged, of every living thing.
The houses lie obscure and still
In Rutherford and Carlton Hill.
Our lamps intensify the dark
Of slumbering Passaic Park.
And quiet holds the weary feet
That daily tramp through Prospect Street.
What though we clang and clank and roar
Through all Passaic's streets? No door
Will open, not an eye will see
Who this loud vagabond may be.
Upon my crimson cushioned seat,
In manufactured light and heat,
I feel unnatural and mean.
Outside the towns are cool and clean;
Curtained awhile from sound and sight
They take God's gracious gift of night.
The stars are watchful over them.
On Clifton as on Bethlehem
The angels, leaning down the sky,
Shed peace and gentle dreams. And I -
I ride, I blasphemously ride
Through all the silent countryside.
The engine's shriek, the headlight's glare,
Pollute the still nocturnal air.
The cottages of Lake View sigh
And sleeping, frown as we pass by.
Why, even strident Paterson
Rests quietly as any nun.
Her foolish warring children keep
The grateful armistice of sleep.
For what tremendous errand's sake
Are we so blatantly awake?
What precious secret is our freight?
What king must be abroad so late?
Perhaps Death roams the hills to-night
And we rush forth to give him fight.
Or else, perhaps, we speed his way
To some remote unthinking prey.
Perhaps a woman writhes in pain
And listens - listens for the train!
The train, that like an angel sings,
The train, with healing on its wings.
Now "Hawthorne!" the conductor cries.
My neighbor starts and rubs his eyes.
He hurries yawning through the car
And steps out where the houses are.
This is the reason of our quest!
Not wantonly we break the rest
Of town and village, nor do we
Lightly profane night's sanctity.
What Love commands the train fulfills,
And beautiful upon the hills
Are these our feet of burnished steel.
Subtly and certainly I feel
That Glen Rock welcomes us to her
And silent Ridgewood seems to stir
And smile, because she knows the train
Has brought her children back again.
We carry people home-and so
God speeds us, wheresoe'er we go.
Hohokus, Waldwick, Allendale
Lift sleepy heads to give us hail.
In Ramsey, Mahwah, Suffern stand
Houses that wistfully demand
A father - son - some human thing
That this, the midnight train, may bring.
The trains that travel in the day
They hurry folks to work or play.

The midnight train is slow and old
But of it let this thing be told,
To its high honor be it said
It carries people home to bed.
My cottage lamp shines white and clear.
God bless the train that brought me here.

[FlyingCrow]

FACTOID ...and then I'll get a question posted tonight that's a little easier than my one over at the coincidental other trivia topic right now...

Camp Kilmer....named for Joyce Kilmer, the poet and member of the famous 69th New York (165th Infantry Regiment) killed at the 2nd Battle of the Marne, July 1918.

[henry6]

Henry note: Fort Dix is not Camp Kilmer...repeat and learn!

[FlyingCrow]

NEW QUESTION  ....

This railroad hosted passenger trains with "interesting" names such as The Silent Knight and The Zipper. 

What is the name of the railroad and what was it's "motto" or "slogan"?

[daveklepper]

My memory says the Alton, "The Road of Abraham Lincoln"

 

Nol that isn't right.   The Illinois Central was "The Road of Abraham Lincoln."  Now I am confused. I am certain the two trains you mentioned operated out of Chicago.   I'll make a guess that indeed it was the IC. 

[ZephyrOverland]

FlyingCrow

NEW QUESTION  ....

This railroad hosted passenger trains with "interesting" names such as The Silent Knight and The Zipper. 

What is the name of the railroad and what was it's "motto" or "slogan"?

That would be the Chicago and Eastern Illinois.  Two of their slogans were "The Boulevard of Steel" and the "Noiseless Route".

[daveklepper]

I defer to Flying Crow; I believe he is correct.

The Pennsylvanina had a train "The White Night" at one time, but not The Silent Night.

[ZephyrOverland]

daveklepper

The Pennsylvanina had a train "The White Night" at one time, but not The Silent Night.

I believe the PRR train you are thinking about was the New York-Chicago Red Knight, not the White Knight.

[FlyingCrow]

ZephyrOverland got it correct !    The Chicago & Eastern Illinois operated the Silent Knight between  St. Louis- Chicago.     Departing at ~ 11:30 at night their theory was that it would cross Illinois in the middle of the night through the dead quiet of sleepy farmlands.    The ad in the C&EI timetable was somewhat amusing....showing a large suit of armor next to the train name.    The Zipper was their "streamliner" contraption for points further south toward what is generally referred to as the Egyptian delta of Illinois.

I would have also accepted "The Quiet Road" or "Silent Road", but THE BOULEVARD OF STEEL, also mentioned in the answer was what I was looking for.     While the C&EI goes generally unsung it truly had one of the more "lyrical" slogans.    

TAKE IT AWAY!!

[ZephyrOverland]

FlyingCrow

ZephyrOverland got it correct !    The Chicago & Eastern Illinois operated the Silent Knight between  St. Louis- Chicago.     Departing at ~ 11:30 at night their theory was that it would cross Illinois in the middle of the night through the dead quiet of sleepy farmlands.    The ad in the C&EI timetable was somewhat amusing....showing a large suit of armor next to the train name.    The Zipper was their "streamliner" contraption for points further south toward what is generally referred to as the Egyptian delta of Illinois.

I would have also accepted "The Quiet Road" or "Silent Road", but THE BOULEVARD OF STEEL, also mentioned in the answer was what I was looking for.     While the C&EI goes generally unsung it truly had one of the more "lyrical" slogans.    

TAKE IT AWAY!!

For a relatively small railroad, the C&EI fielded an impressive passenger operation in that they operated trains that went beyond their lines to Florida, Nashville, New Orleans, St. Louis and even Texas points in conjunction with the Cotton Belt.

As for the next question:

It's mid-December.  It's cold up north.  At one time, if you had the means and the social status, you would have went to Florida for the winter on ACL's New York and Florida Special (or just the Florida Special).  Miami was the most well known Florida endpoint for this train, BUT, this train at one time or another called three other Florida east coast cities as its southern terminus.  What were they? Please note that I'm concerned only with the east coast section of the Special - west coast cities are not considered in this question. 

 

[FlyingCrow]

JACKSONVILLE

ST. AUGUSTINE

W. PALM BEACH

That's  my guess.  

[ZephyrOverland]

FlyingCrow

JACKSONVILLE

ST. AUGUSTINE

W. PALM BEACH

That's  my guess.  

St. Augustine was the original southern terminus for the New York and Florida Special.  Jacksonville is also appropriate since in the years immediately before WWI the FEC operated the through cars from the New York and Florida Special and Seaboard Florida Limited as one train called the Over-Sea Limited south of Jacksonville.  I didn't count Jacksonville originally so there are now four cities needed to answer the question. Good job FlyingCrow for getting two of them.

[Southerngreen1401]

The other two Key West and Miami.

[Southerngreen1401]

Southern trains transfer to FEC.  Their were no Southern rail lines in Florida.

 

[KCSfan]

Southerngreen1401

Southern trains transfer to FEC.  Their were no Southern rail lines in Florida.

Oh yes there was. The Southern had a branch running from Valdosta to Palatka, FL which was the route of the Florida Sunbeam bypassing Jacksonville. The Southern also ran to Perry in north Florida.

Mark

[ZephyrOverland]

Southerngreen1401

The other two Key West and Miami.

The New York and Florida Special did run to Key West for one or two seasons before WWI.  I mentioned Miami in my original question and I was looking for 4 other cities.

One more end point  to go.

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

Southerngreen1401:

The other two Key West and Miami.

 

The New York and Florida Special did run to Key West for one or two seasons before WWI.  I mentioned Miami in my original question and I was looking for 4 other cities.

One more end point  to go.

Palm Beach (the cars were taken off/added in West Palm Beach.

As to the Georgia Southern & Florida's lines (the Southern System's road that entered Florida), the main line was Macon to Jacksonville through Valdosta, and the line to Palatka  was a branch. The Kansas City-Florida Special and the Skyland Special entered Jacksonville by trackage rights over the ACL (Hardeeville, S. C., through Jesup to Jacksonville for the Skyland Special, and Jesup-Jacksonville for the KC-Fla Special) There were some variations, as for at least one season, the KC-Fla Special ran through Valdosta and the Royal Palm ran through Jesup one way, and both trains ran their usual routes in the  other direction. 

Except for the Sunbeam, the FEC was the Southern's choice of a partner for cars to/from Miami, and the SAL was the choice for West Coast destinations (in all the timetables I have).