Trains.com

Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

856713 views
8197 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:14 PM

The Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad of Texas was a subsidiary of the MIssouri-Kansas-Texas formed to satisfy the Texas corporation laws which specified that any railroad doing business in Texas had to be headquartered in that state.  This same law was the reason for the T&NO on the SP and the SL-SF of Texas on the Frisco.

The MKTT, to my knowledge, did not operate outside the state of Texas, and it has a separate listing in the March, '56. Official Guide.

That information, plus 75 cents, will let you make a local call from any phone booth in the state of Georgia.

Bob Hanson

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, October 31, 2010 11:57 PM

Bob and Flying Crow,

You are both right about the Katy's Komet and Klipper in the 1950's and perhaps even during the late "40's. I have a 1954 OG which lists the named Katy freights at that time.

1) The Komet, train #81 (southbound) and #'s80-280-270 (northbound)  running between St.L and San Antonio, Houston and Galveston.

2) The Komet, train #'s281-81 (southbound) and #'s80-280-270 (northbound) running between KC and San Antonio, Houston and Galveston.

3) The Klipper, train #75 running from St.L to San Antonio, Houston and Galveston and #'s275-81  from KC to the same Texas cities.

4) The Bullet, train #'s72-272 running from San Antonio, Houston and Galveston to both St. L and KC.

5) The Packer, train #74 running from Ft. Worth to St.L and #74-274 from Ft. Worth to KC.

I should have been more specific in my original question which was meant to be about the Komet service when the Katy first started it the '30's.

Mark

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 1:40 PM

Mark, if it's up to me I check to either you or Bob Hanson to ask the next question.   If that's the protocol.    I'm kinda jammed up right now with the membership stuff for our historical society.    Bob knows... 4th quarter issue of Lines South is due !

 

thanks

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 2:07 PM

Take it away Bob. I don"t have a question ready plus I've asked more than my share of them lately. I'll defer to you and look forward to seeing what you offer up.

Mark

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 2:08 PM

You ask this one, Mark.  I asked a question just a few days ago.

Go for it, Mark!

Bob Hanson

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, November 2, 2010 5:39 PM

"After you, Dear Alphonse."

"No, after you, Dear Gaston."Smile

Johnny

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 8:04 AM

Mark, if you'd ask the question you'd be doing me a favor.  I'm preparing to work a railroad memorabilia show and will be unable to spend much time for the next few days monitoring the responses.

So, if you will, please ask a question.

Thanks!

Bob

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 8, 2010 4:28 AM

Still waiting for a question, Mark!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:28 PM

Sorry to be so late in asking a question but I've been away from the computer for a while and didn't realize the buck had been passed back to me.

In the mid-'50s if you lived in a town where they "still flew old glory at the courthouse" and "white lightning was the biggest thrill of all" you might have ridden the gas electric motor cars of a certain railroad. This road was one of three allied railroads which operated under separate names but shared common officers. The combined mileage of the three roads totalled nearly 800 miles in four states. What were the names of the railroads, which one still had passenger service, and between what points did its motors run?

Mark 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Chicago, Ill.
  • 2,843 posts
Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:51 PM

I don't know their exact names but they were collectively referred to as the "Muskogee Roads" but were controlled out of the Northeastern U.S. - Philadelphia, perhaps? 

One of the roads probably had a doodlebug that went to Fort Smith, AK.

 

??

 

 

 

al-in-chgo
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, November 13, 2010 3:04 PM

Al,

You are real warm but off a bit on your info. Keep trying.

Mark

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Chicago, Ill.
  • 2,843 posts
Posted by al-in-chgo on Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:13 PM

KCSfan

Al,

You are real warm but off a bit on your info. Keep trying.

Mark

Heck, Mark, I couldn't even have hazarded my bad guess withouth knowing about the Merle Haggard song. 

Someone will come across--eventually

al-in-chgo
  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:17 PM

The "Muskogee Roads" consisted of the Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka; and the Midland Valley.    The MV had the passenger service.

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:34 AM

FlyingCrow

The "Muskogee Roads" consisted of the Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf; Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka; and the Midland Valley.    The MV had the passenger service.

Flying Crow you've got  the three RR's right and can ask the next question. However my OG's of that time  show the MV and OCAA as freight only. An Oakie from Muskogee could, however, still ride a gas electric motor of the KO&G from there to Denison, TX.

Mark 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:15 PM

I'm chewing over my options and a new question will be posted soonest!!  Hmm

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:42 PM

AB, I like your Avatar. I still recall, fondly, the first KCS passenger train I saw--the southbound Southern Belle as it was stopped in Baton Rouge one morning in the summer of 1953.

Johnny

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, November 15, 2010 6:52 AM

Thanks for the compliment..... since it's my turn.   Ok, here’s a bit of a different question…one that deals with music…and trains, of course.

 

WC Handy’s “Yellow Dog Blues”

 

“…Dear Sue, your easy rider struck this burg today, on a southbound rattler beside the Pullman car.  I seem him there and he was on the hog.    Oh you easy rider’s got to stay away.   She had to vamp it but the hike ain’t far.    He’s gone where the Southern cross the Yellow Dog.”

 

Just interpreting the lyrics would be a challenge enough, but that’s not the question.     The question is:

 

(a)    What’s the “Yellow Dog”?

(b)    Where does the “Southern” cross the Yellow Dog”?

(c)    The “Southern” what - and In “recent” times the “Southern” is better known as ….?

 

Enjoy

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 15, 2010 7:34 AM

The "Yellow Dog" was the Yazoo Delta Railway, later Yazoo & Mississippi Valley, still later, Illinois Central.

The Southern crossed the Yellow Dog at Moorhead, Mississippi.

The "Southern" in in this song was The Southern Railway in Mississippi which became the Columbus & Greenville Railway in 1920.  It was spun off by parent Southern Railway in 1921.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, November 15, 2010 7:24 PM

Take it away Bob...I didn't think this was well known but very good.

By the way, Moorhead is the home town of the best man at my wedding...he used to play the recording of the Handy blues tune for me all the time.

 

Whistling

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 21, 2010 5:18 AM

Next quesiton please

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:35 AM

Sorry for the delay. For some reason I didn't receive the acknowledgement that my answer was correct and therfore didn't know that the ball was in my court.

In the late 1800's there existed a railroad, approximately 450 miles in length, that operated three divisions of three different gauges.

1.  What was the railroad?

2.  What were the end points of this main line?

3.  What were the three gauges?

Again, sorry for the delay.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 22, 2010 3:20 PM

Is it North American?

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 22, 2010 3:56 PM

Yes.

It is - or was, anyway -  a US road that became part of a much larger system prior to the turn of the 20th century.  The troublesome t division-three gauges problem had been resolved prior to that time.

Bob Hanson

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 22, 2010 3:58 PM

The previous post should read, "The troublesome three division-three gauges problem had been resolved prior to that time."

I omitted several letters in the original.  I can think faster than I can type.

Bob Hanson

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Chicago, Ill.
  • 2,843 posts
Posted by al-in-chgo on Monday, November 22, 2010 5:19 PM

AWP290

The previous post should read, "The troublesome three division-three gauges problem had been resolved prior to that time."

I omitted several letters in the original.  I can think faster than I can type.

Bob Hanson

 

 

Was it the old 'Norfolk Southern,' which literally did run to the south of Norfolk (VA), but had ceased to exist before the 1982 N&W/Southern Rwy. merger creating the 'new' NS?

al-in-chgo
  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:58 PM

I'm not doing something right, here.  I responded to this answer last evening and for some reason it  didn't show up.

No, it was not the "old" Norfolk Southern.  Unless I'm mistaken, the old NS was not formed until the early 20th century.

The road I have in mind was formed in 1881, was controlled from the get-go by a larger road, and both roads - parent and subsidiary - were absorbed into a much larger system prior to the turn of the 20th century.

Sorry for the delay.  As I said, I responded, but the good Lord only knows what part of cyberspace it went to.

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • 50 posts
Posted by Southerngreen1401 on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 8:02 PM

The old Norfolk Southern was merge back in the 1970's in Southern Railway.  Southern Railway was a part owner of this road.  Their equipment was the same equipment that Southern used since the 1920's.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • 574 posts
Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, November 29, 2010 8:09 PM

Bob....  has anyone answered your question correctly yet?     It's got me stumped without cheating and digging out all the OG's and such.

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
  • Member since
    September 2009
  • 135 posts
Posted by AWP290 on Monday, November 29, 2010 8:28 PM

No.  I think everyone got overstuffed with turkey on Thanksgiving and went to sleep.

I'm surprised that this is giving everyone so much trouble. 

Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 2,535 posts
Posted by KCSfan on Monday, November 29, 2010 10:16 PM

Bob, was it the Plant System which at one time had 5ft, Stamdard and 3ft gauge lines in its family of roads. The Plant System of course became a part of the ACL around the turn of the century.

Mark

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter