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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 8, 2021 10:11 PM

daveklepper
I'm unsure if CNJ had any FP-7s, but they certainly did have Baldwin. EMD, and Alco diesels in commuter sevice at the same time.

You left out two kinds of FMs, too.

The Reading ran their FP7s over CNJ, but I don't think there were any 'native' Jersey Central painted examples... they valued runaround bidirectionality.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 8, 2021 10:29 PM

daveklepper
I'm unsure if CNJ had any FP-7s, but they certainly did have Baldwin. EMD, and Alco diesels in commuter sevice at the same time.

You left out two kinds of FMs, too.

The Reading ran their FP7s over CNJ, but I don't think there were any 'native' Jersey Central painted examples... they valued runaround bidirectionality.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t3eqnW5H2ac

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:23 AM

I'll supply the next question.  Erie Lackawanna 5-6, the "Lake Cities", briefly operated by another name in the mid-60's.  What was the name and the basis for the name.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 12, 2021 7:58 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
I'll supply the next question.  Erie Lackawanna 5-6, the "Lake Cities", briefly operated by another name in the mid-60's.  What was the name and the basis for the name.

You asked this already, about the World's Fair.  Ask another one.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 10:08 AM

I'll pass.  It's getting harder to come up with questions that most people have a reasonable shot at answering.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 13, 2021 8:09 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
It's getting harder to come up with questions that most people have a reasonable shot at answering.

I can't find many that are any fun, either.  I miss Mike MacDonald.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 15, 2021 9:15 AM

I did not understand that i answered correctly.  If I did, I can come up with a  queation.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, October 15, 2021 12:16 PM

Have at it. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 17, 2021 2:53 AM

Manhattan Transfer was the engine-change location for PRR trains to and from Penn. Sta., NYC.  When the 11000V 25Hz AC electrification was extended from Trenton to Sunnyside Yard, where was the engine change point for:

Trains to Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, and St. Louis?

Trains to Washington, DC and south?

Trains to Atlantic City?  (The Nellie Bly)?

Trains to Cape Charles?

Trains to Bay Head Junction?

Of couse, trains to Philadelphia were electric all the way and ran to the old Broad Street Station.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 18, 2021 8:37 AM

Hints:  Two of the above PRR services shared the same engine-change point.  Thus, only four such locations, not five.

Two of the locations survived into the full electrification era.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 18, 2021 1:39 PM

daveklepper
When the 11000V 25Hz AC electrification was extended from Trenton to Sunnyside Yard...

To put this in perspective, the route was fully electrified from New York to Wilmington at this point, but not to Washington.  That would have been an additional  engine-change point of interest here...

...where was the engine change point for:

Trains to Pittsburgh, Chicago, Cincinnati, and St. Louis?

These would have diverged at North Philadelphia  and presumably gotten the engine change near Paoli.  For some reason I remember the actual engine service facilities for steam being some distance from the actual change point.

Trains to Washington, DC and south?

Not until Wilmington.

Trains to Atlantic City?  (The Nellie Bly)?This might depend upon coming from where.  From Philadelphia I think they were steam the whole way, over the Delair Bridge.  From New York I think they may have gone via Jamesburg although I don't know when the piece of the 'secondary' between South Amboy and Monmouth Junction was electrified.  

Trains to Cape Charles?

Probably same as Washington trains at that point, as the Del-Mar-Va trains diverged at Wilmington.

Trains to Bay Head Junction?

South Amboy

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 3:00 AM

Overmod, I'll give you the  credit.  Wilmington is correct for both Washington and St. Chasrles and was permanent for St. Charles trains.  South Amboy did come a short tinme later, with trains for the New York and Long Branch getting steam at Newark or Rahway for a short time.

Paoli was the change point for trains to the west.

Your question

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 4:57 PM

Can you post pictures of the engine-change facilities at Newark and Rahway for that short time?  I'd expect that even Depression-era PRR freight traffic would require extensive numbers of locomotives before the electrification was complete.

And I had a detailed account of how engine change in Paoli was conducted - was it in one of Bill Volkmer's books, or Churella's - but can't find it now.  It was interesting reading about something relatively nonobvious but of critical practical importance, like the 'relief arrangements' on Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis...

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 21, 2021 7:35 AM

Because of the short period involved, steam power required at Newark or Rahway ran light from (and to)  Jersey City or South Amboy, whivch were facilities in-use both before and after electrification.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 4, 2021 11:56 AM

I haven't forgotten -- just not taken the time.  Still don't have a quality question ready, but I'm bumping the thread to keep it visible.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, December 22, 2021 7:04 PM

Who ran the first practical rotary plow, and when?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, December 25, 2021 5:34 PM

I'll take a stab at this, seeing as western Alberta just got a big dump of snow.

The classic Canadian answer (as found in any number of kids history books up here) is that the first workable prototype was designed by Orange Jull as an improved version of J.W. Elliot's original idea, and it was built by the Leslie Brothers during the winter of 1883-84 and tested on the CPR in Toronto. 

The Leslies managed to acquire the design rights and moved south of the border and it appears they again tested a prototype (perhaps the same unit) on the Erie in spring 1885, but the first production models were sold to Union Pacific in 1887 after one was successfully tested in Wyoming during the 1886-87 winter season, so I suspect this is the answer you had in mind.  The Leslies contracted with the Cooke Locomotive & Machine Works to do the actual manufacturing, Cooke of course later becoming part of ALCO.  

This site has a good summary and brief bios of many of the people involved, as well as the 'shenanigans' that may or may not have occurred.

https://www.gent.name/on:rotarysnowplow

The idea was of course first patented by Elliot in 1870 (Canadian patent 399), and though he never built a prototype this link is worth including just for the original drawing, which looks a bit like the 'Tom Thumb' without powered axles and a big fan on the front.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/opic-cipo/cpd/eng/patent/399/summary.html?type=number_search&tabs1Index=tabs1_1

Canadian Patent Document 399. Drawings 20121213. Image 1 of 1

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, December 27, 2021 6:57 AM

Well-done.  If I recall correctly the test was conducted on the Credit Valley line not very long after the CPR acquired it... a matter of weeks, perhaps?  I was never sure if the testing was arranged before the formal acquisition or after.

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, December 29, 2021 2:58 PM

A softball, when and where did Canadian Pacific build their last new roundhouse?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 5, 2022 7:20 AM

John Street Rounhouse, Toronto, 1928-1931?

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, January 5, 2022 8:33 AM

St Luc, Montreal. 1949.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 5, 2022 12:53 PM

Backshop is correct.  

CP was still buying new steam locomotives at the time of St Luc's construction, but that of course quickly changed.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, January 5, 2022 9:09 PM

What two railroads that were considered "eastern" had trackage in Wisconsin?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 6, 2022 6:54 AM

Pere Marquette (C&O) and GTW had trackage in Milwaukee associated with their lake ferries. C&O went back and forth on operating its Milwaukee float yard, sometimes contracting with the Milwaukee Road to handle switching there.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:23 AM

rcdrye

Pere Marquette (C&O) and GTW had trackage in Milwaukee associated with their lake ferries. C&O went back and forth on operating its Milwaukee float yard, sometimes contracting with the Milwaukee Road to handle switching there.

 

Correct!  Your turn...

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:59 PM

Both GTW and C&O served other Wisconson ports, but they were switched by local railroads.

This large system served five state capitals and a national capital.  In later days the national capital was served by a single passenger round trip.  Name the system.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 7, 2022 3:08 AM

The C&O.   Although the Classic Period had three through trains from Newprt News (serving Richmond, VA) and Washington to Cincinnati (Sportsman, Fast Flying Virginian and George Washington) with through Pullmans to Chicago and Dcetroit, also service to Lousville, before Amtrak servoce was reduced to just one  round-trrip.  Columbus, OH, Charleston, West Virginia, Indianoplis, Indiana, poaaibly Frankfor Kentucky (?), and Lansing, Michigan (via PM) were served by the C&O.  Passenger service to Washington, DC, was via trackage via trackage-rights on the Southern from Orange (Gordensville the junction with the line to Newport News), ditto freight service to Potomic Yard,  But CSX uses its own RF&P line.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 7, 2022 6:39 AM

In the states I check my railroad systema against C&O served Richmond, Charleston, Columbus and Frankfort.  One state capital shy.  C&OofI missed Indianapolis.  Technically, after 1948 C&O added Lansing MI when the PM was merged in, but the railroad system I'm looking for was already there before then.  Come to think of it I missed Lansing in my list, so - seven state capitals and a national capital.

If it helps, three of the capitals in C&O's list (including Lansing)  apply to the other railroad as well.

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, January 7, 2022 11:11 AM

NYC--The national capital was Ottawa.  The state capitals were Boston, Albany, Columbus, Lansing, Indianapolis and Charleston.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, January 7, 2022 1:45 PM

Correct!  The Ottawa division was disconnected from the rest of NYCS after 1932 when the line between Tupper Lake and Helena was abandoned. Freights routed via CN/Grand Trunk's Massena branch between Massena and Helena on trackage rights.  Passengers were supposed to use CN/GT trains to connect until those were abandoned in the 1940s.  The Helena-Ottawa trains hung around until 1951.  The line to Ottawa was never major but paid its own way.  The St. Lawrence Seaway project resulted in the loss of the bridge at Cornwall Ontario in 1957.  Short stubs remain in operation today under various owners.

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