The incline to the ferry was embargoed for repair in 1982. The repairs were completed, but apparently the traffic detour during the embargo was cheaper than handling the traffic with the ferry. 1982 is post-Staggers Act, so it would have been fairly easy to abandon.
In the last few years of its operation, the stern-wheeler was lashed to a steel barge which actually carried the cars, though as far as I know the rails were never removed from the ferry's deck. The replacement tug simply took over pushing the barge.
Harahan, LA`- Avondale, MI, across the Mississippi, not sure either IC or SP?
You are on the correct river. Just go upstream a bit. Remember that the ferry operation was small enough to allow the use of a stern-wheeler.
rcdrye You are on the correct river. Just go upstream a bit. Remember that the ferry operation was small enough to allow the use of a stern-wheeler.
Johnny
Johnny has it! The James Y Lockwood (actually owned by the Natchez & Louisiana Transfer Co., owned by Missouri Pacific, originally St. Louis Iron Mountain and Southern) served until 1961, for most of the time in company with the barge Baysinger II. MP diesel towboat Natchez replaced it in 1961. MP owned the Natchez and Southern, which operated the 4% incline (including two switchbacks) on the Natchez side, connecting to the Mississippi Central.
When the ferry was embargoed in June 1982 "for repairs" it was the last railroad ferry on the Mississippi. Just missed the UP merger by six months.
What railroads found it necessary to bore tunnels in Mississippi (there are three tunnels, all still in use)? Where are they?
The three tunnels are all in Vicksburg, but doggone if I remember exactly which entity built them...at least one was built in part to facilitate the ferry operation to Delta Point on the other side, but I've read references that freight transshipment (before the gauges were all standardized around 1885) had to be handled by elevator from blufftop level down to the river. So whether it was Vicksburg & Meridian or Alabama & Vicksburg, I don't know. (The bridge over the Mississippi, 1928-30, came after IC got the route in 1926.) Tunnels are now on the IC/ICG/Midsouth/KCS/MSLLC ... but I think one of them still goes down to the north-south tracks by the river... ex-Yazoo & Mississippi Valley? Did any get built by KCS after they straightened things post-1994 ... I know they did quite a bit of work on the tunnel under Washington Street rather recently.
I know of only two in Vicksburg; there is another one elsewhere in the state--and I have been through all of those.
At least one of the tunnels was built by IC's Vicksburg, Shreveport and Pacific. That's the one leading to the Mississippi bridge. The other two - at least based on where they are - look like they are ex-Y&MV and ex-V&M. There's really a short fourth tunnel but it was built over the VS&P line as part of the I-20/Bus US 61 interchange. All of them appear to be of masonry construction.
What about Summit, MS (close to where 20 and 59 come together near Meridian)? There was a tunnel there (supposedly between Lost Gap and Meehan, at a place appropriately known as 'Tunnel Hill') but it has apparently been daylighted and is now only a cut.
rcdryeAt least one of the tunnels was built by IC's Vicksburg, Shreveport and Pacific. That's the one leading to the Mississippi bridge. The other two - at least based on where they are - look like they are ex-Y&MV and ex-V&M.
Washington St. is said to be ex-Alabama & Vicksburg, 1897. (That's post-name-change from V&M...)
Wizlish What about Summit, MS (close to where 20 and 59 come together near Meridian)? There was a tunnel there (supposedly between Lost Gap and Meehan, at a place appropriately known as 'Tunnel Hill') but it has apparently been daylighted and is now only a cut.
Rcdrye did get two of the three that I knew of--and I will agree on his listing of the constructors.
Using Bing Maps, I find only the one built by the VS&P and the M&V one at Washington Street, just above Belmont Street (the two that SPV shows in its atlas); the third one must be very short.
DeggestyI can't find any Summit close to Meridian
Summit was supposedly the name change of the nearest post-office location; it used to be Tunnel Hill. It took some digging to figure out exactly where the physical tunnel was. Note that the 'official' tunnel and bridge databases seem to omit any mention of this tunnel, but do show 'three' for Vicksburg. They may have officially confused their data.
I continue to maintain that a tunnel built in 1897 could not possibly have been built by the Vicksburg and Meridian, any more than the PRR could be shown to have operated E60s over its lines...
But in any case, give him the next question. I have much more fun thinking about solving these things than attempting to stump people who know 10 to the sixth more about these things than I do.
All but one of the Vicksburg tunnels are essentially highway underpasses, it's just that there's enough elevation difference in the bluffs to make a tunnel worthwhile.
So I'll return to the subject of car ferries: Since we found the last stern-wheeler, I'm now looking for the last sidewheel car ferry on the Mississippi that carried the cars on its own deck, rather than on a barge.
The name of the boat was the Geneva, and I will be back with more details.
The railroad ferry Ste. Genevieve floated its last load of boxcars across the Mississippi River at Ste. Genevieve, Tuesday, July 18.
The venerable tourist attraction was removed from service after having made 10 trips daily since 1922 between Ste. Genevieve and Kellokk, Ill.
The Missouri Pacific Railroad, owner of the subsidiary Missouri-Illinois Railroad, which owns the 266-foot steel-hulled transfer steamer, said Monday the Interstate Commerce Commission has approved abandonment of the service.
Prime reason for the Ste. Genevieve's demise is her aged condition. It would cost too much to repair her.
Instead of ferrying trains, the railroad will use a Frisco connection to a railroad bridge at Illmo, about 75 miles south of Ste. Genevieve. Freight will cross the bridge to Clinton, Ill., where it will then use Missouri-Illinois Railroad tracks.
The ferry was bought in 1922 by the Missouri-Illinois Railway Company, and its capacity was 18 cars. The present captain is Harry Greishaber of Ste. Genevieve, and the ferry has a 13-man crew. During the summer months, the ferry had an average of 200 cars per day.
The first spike for the railroad track to the ferry was driven on July 10, 1901, at Little Rock, or Thomure, Mo., as it is now listed. Coming on up the line, a trestle was built near Weingarten, called the Rough Creek Trestle, where the first train passed over it on November 29, 1902. The first carload of coal was delivered from Illinois across the river by ferry, and to the Lead Belt, in 1903, and the first passenger train from Ste. Genevieve to Bismarck, August 17, 1903.
The first engine to cross on the ferry was No. 5, in 1902. Engine No. 4 was the first passenger engine to cross on the ferry. It was called the Kellogg Ferry. Later the ferry was torn up in an ice jam, and the ferry which is now discontinued was called the Ste. Genevieve Ferry.
After the railroad went bankrupt following World War I, the Southern Missouri was sold to the Illinois-Southern Co., and it was reorganized as the Missouri-Illinois in 1921, and began new ferry operation in 1922.
Earlier, the boat pulled barges, but the ferry now being discontinued hauled cars right on the boat.
According to reliable information the discontinuance of the ferry will not effect railroad crewmen. The crews will work between Bismarck and Ste. Genevieve, from Ste. Genevieve to Illmo and Illmo to Sparta over the tracks mentioned.
Like other car ferries, the St. Genevieve failed her survey. Her near 40 year career was actually pretty long by industry standards. The "Mike and Ike" operated the stubs on each side for about another fifteen years before most of the stubs were abandoned.
The Ste Genevieve was actually a replacement boat for one that sank, which is what caused the 1920 bankruptcy.
Two railroads shared an important terminal station in city. One of the railroads built a modern station elsewhere in the city for the use of both railroads. The second railroad did not move in right away, continued to use two other stations in the city, until highway construction forced it to abandon those two stations and move into the station that had been planned for such a move by the first railroad.
Describe all the details, railroads, city, station names, subsequent history.
The main terminal station continued to be used by both railroads and is an important passenger railroad terminal today with good transit connections in its city.
All stations in this question served commuter as well as long distance trains and all had reasonable access to rail public transit. What exists today still does.
The station that was planned for use by two railroads but had the entrance of the larger railroad postponed has been replaced by a new station, the change not resulting from highway construction but because of a change in rail transit.
The new station has assumed greater importance with respect the terminal station that has been in continuous use, because of a real flaw in the North American railroad system.
The station and its currrent multimode replacement front on a street with the same name as a well-known USA educational institution. One could travel by train to the railroad station nearest that educational institution, indeed one still can do so, but the route is not direct, and the layover inconvenient and requiring a hotel in one direction. Even for some time after WWII one could travel by train directly there but would not use any of the stations dicussed in this question, but another important station in the city. The station in question was never named for this street, however, just for the general neighborhood. Still is.
Two lightweight postwar Pullman Standard sleepers were also named after the educational institution.
Dave:
The two cars in question belonged to the Boston and Maine and were renamed Dartmouth College I and Dartmouth College II. I don't know the answers to the first part of your question.
Ed Burns
On the other hand White River Jct Union station has been in the same place since 1887...
The station in question did front on Dartmouth Street and so does its newer Amtrak-era replacement, replacement needed because of transit relocation, not highway construction.
Although the station in question was never named Dartmouth Street, named for the neighborhood which itself took its name from what was there before the neighborhood, the two stations of the other railroad, removed due to highway construction, did have names associated with what are streets, avenues, boulevards, squares, circles, places, courts, etc.
Tickets were sold in only one of those two stations. Of course they are sold in the replacement and were in the station in question.
Are we back in the Boston area again, with Back Bay (1899 and 1928), and the two 'closed' stations the B&A's Huntington Avenue and Trinity Place (closed 1964)? The two closed stations were notable as being directional (I believe eastbound and westbound respectively) - replacements for Columbus St. (1880).
Is the 'real flaw in the US rail transportation system' that the only route between the NEC and North Station involves the Orange Line connection at Back Bay?
100% Your question
Note that the present Back Bay Station was built because of the relocation of the Orange line from an elevated structure on Washington Street to share the cut with the NEC. So at the present Back Bay Sta. one can also access the Orange line platform from within the station, an easier transfer to North Station for Downeast Amtrak service than transfer from South Station.
Back Bay was bay before being filled in to form the present neighborhood.
All American 4-10-2s had an interesting mechanical characteristic when built. One of them was slightly, but significantly different in how this characteristic was implemented -- how?
.
If I recall all of the UP And SP 4-10-2's had a mixed valve gear (Walschaert/Gresley ?) , while Baldwin had a Walschaert valve gear for all three.
UP's were not particularly popular, certainly not as well liked by UP As their 4-12-2s. SP's were pretty successful on the Sunset Route east of L.A. where curves were mild and grades modest compared to other SP routes. UP's were reduced to two-cylinder simples in the 1940s.
One UP exec explained why the three cylinder idea never got very far in US practice when commenting on maintenance: "It's like having an expensive mistress at every division point!"
I give you both credit for answering, as technically both answers are correct.
I was looking for the three-cylinder answer -- thought it was interesting that every single 4-10-2 built was originally a three-cylinder locomotive. The 60000 was compound and, as noted, did not have conjugated (derived) drive to the inside cylinder's valve.
Seems to me there's no reason why we can't have two questions open at the same time... adds to the interest!
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