Took up less room on the GCT station track, allowing a longer train to fit and less of a walk inbound to the concourse. But this did not last. The last run of the train used a P-motor, inbound.
The "Steel Fleet," the consolidate train that replaced the 20th and a whole slew of others, always drew a P-motor. I think by then the T's were gone, except for one moved to Penn Station for the wire train, replacing a DD-1.
daveklepperTook up less room on the GCT station track, allowing a longer train to fit and less of a walk inbound to the concourse.
Even though the Century often arrived on one of the loop tracks, a 16 car train and a P-motor fouled part of the station plant. By the end of Century operation in 1967, 16 car trains were rare enough that assigning a P motor instead of a 50+ year old T motor was workable.
Competing railroads have always helped each other out in emergencies. When the C&NW had a block, its freight and passenger trains did detour over the CMStP&P and the CB&Q. In the post WWII history of passenger trains, there was one such reroute that became permanent right up to and including Amtrak. In total, more than two railroads were involved in the passenger trains discussed.
What were the circumstances, the trains, and the railroads, and the roroute locations?
At the moment, the only rerouting I can think of that begins to meet the requirements is that of the West Coast and Denver Cities--but the rerouting from C&NW to CMStP&P was not because of line blockage--and Amtrak chose not to use the UP east of Cheyenne.
Johnny
Hint: There were trains that had one of two sections rerouted rather than the entire train, or later, just through cars rerouted rather than the entire train. The line blockage was not a physical blockage per se, in that no derailment or fire or snow was responsible.. The revised route is used by Amtrak currently.
Was this the reroute over Seaboard of Florida trains during and after the Florida East Coast Strike?
YES Now give the detalis, and then please ask the next question.
After the FEC was struck in 1963, the Atlantic Coast Line came to an agreement to forward cars or trains that had formerly operated on FEC via Seaboard Air Line's route, some of which is still used by Amtrak's Siver Meteor and Silver Star. Between 1963 and the 1967 Seaboard Coast Line merger some trains were handled in their entirety by SAL from Jacksonville to Miami (Champion, Florida Special, City of Miami) while in other cases cars from ACL trains were handled as blocks in Seaboard trains, sometimes exchanged from the Tampa or St. Petersburg sections at other locations. More changes ocurred after the SCL merger. Today's route is made up of portions of ACL's route to Tampa and the SAL route to Miami.
In 1957, through Pullmans from Detroit to Florida left Detroit's Michigan Central Station behind locomotives with MC crews. The Pullmans were eventually turned over to the traditional Florida Carriers in Cincinnati, arriving in Cincinnati on two different railroads. What were the railroads?
rcdrye After the FEC was struck in 1963, the Atlantic Coast Line came to an agreement to forward cars or trains that had formerly operated on FEC via Seaboard Air Line's route, some of which is still used by Amtrak's Siver Meteor and Silver Star. Between 1963 and the 1967 Seaboard Coast Line merger some trains were handled in their entirety by SAL from Jacksonville to Miami (Champion, Florida Special, City of Miami) while in other cases cars from ACL trains were handled as blocks in Seaboard trains, sometimes exchanged from the Tampa or St. Petersburg sections at other locations. More changes ocurred after the SCL merger. Today's route is made up of portions of ACL's route to Tampa and the SAL route to Miami. In 1957, through Pullmans from Detroit to Florida left Detroit's Michigan Central Station behind locomotives with MC crews. The Pullmans were eventually turned over to the traditional Florida Carriers in Cincinnati, arriving in Cincinnati on two different railroads. What were the railroads?
,The comment about ACL trains being forwarded by the SAL Jax-Miami was correct only for the first week or so. Maybe only two days! I rode the West Coast Champion to Lakeland, FL, In connection with my work with Oflando Architects Nils Schweizer and Associates at Florida Sou. U. (Branscomb Memorial Aduitorium), the second week of the strike, and the Aurbundale connection was already in effect (possibly at first involving a back-up move on a rehabilitated existing interchange track), and the East Coast Champion was using it . So, later in my Florida visit, I was able to buy an ACL Orlando - Miami ticket and help another client in Miami (Tom Madden) without renting a car or using buses. I do not know if Aurbundale is a passsenger stop today, but of course it was a crew-change stop, where the ACL engine crews were replaced by SAL's. The ACL train crews ran through, if I remember correctly. The main Jacksonville - Orlando - Tampa route crosses the SAL Jacksonvlle - Wildwood - West Palm Beach - Miami route at Auburndale, and this is the connection that was used at least in the second week of the strike and to the present day by Amtrak. So from then on, I could a much greater variety of trains to Orlando, including the fast winter-only Florida Special. (But some winters it didn't stop there.)
Once, in Miami working for Tom Madden, I learned the FEC had been forced to reinstate passenger service and was running a daily train. My next stop was in Jacksonville with architects Kemp Bunch and Jackson, for the Civic Auditorium. After working at Tom's office, he was to drive me to the station, but we got to delayed by traffic and got to the FEC station just in time to see the round-end obs, coach, bag, and E-unit leaving. Tom was crestfallen and offered to drive me all the way to Jacksonville in his gull-wing Merecedes sports car, and I accepted the offer. I even had the opportunity to drive this rare car for a spell. But I never did get the opportunity to ride the FEC.
Even if the handoff was handled at Auburndale, the trains were listed in at least some public TTs as SAL Jacksonville-Miami.
Johnny has the correct answer. B&O trains were handled as ordinary MC trains by the crews Detroit-Toledo, but were not in the MC/NYC public timetable and only B&O tickets were honored. After the B&O/C&O affiliation B&O's through trains were moved to Fort Street Union Depot in Detroit, but B&O kept an RDC in Deshler Ohio for a Saturday-only round trip to Detroit via the (by then) NYC, to avoid paying MC/NYC the penalty for abandoning their rights to Detroit. This franchise service lasted until 1965 or 1966. The all-NYC Lines cars headed to the Southern Railway were technically handed over to the Big Four at Toledo as well.
All of the NYC's subsidiaries were merged into the parent company between 1958 and 1962, as the original bond issues were retired.
What two names did John Barriger suggest would better fit the best train the Pennsylvania ran between New York and Chicago, considering the train's clientele?
Deggesty What two names did John Barriger suggest would better fit the best train the Pennsylvania ran between New York and Chicago, considering the train's clientele?
I'm just guessing but I'll say the Executive and the President.
Mark
No, one had to do with Chicago, and the other had to do with New York; neither had anything to do with Washington.
Stock Exchange and Board of Trade? Or names somehow related to these institutions?
Dave, you are getting close. Where are these located?
Wall Street, to NY, and State Street to Chicago.
I think the name The Wall Street was used by the Reading for one if its Philadelphia - Jersey City trains for a considerable period. It and the Crusader were the last two operated after hourly service was eliminated witih just two morning and two return evening trains. The Crusader had the Budd stainless equipment, and the Wall Street rebuilt suburban cars into a semi-streamlined train. By the time the Aldein plan was effected, both used Budd RDC's.
Dave, you have one of them right. Incidentally, two other railroads (not NYC-Chicago) named a train for the locations.
The Wall Street and The Loop?
The Corn King?
I do not know of a Corn King Street in Chicago, though the IC did have a Corn King that ran from Iowa to Chicago. The other road that did use the name also ran a day train.
You are close with the Loop, but it ran around many streets.
Wacker for Wacker Drive (and Canal)
Sorry, not it.
Perhaps the suggestion was not followed up because the competition had a connection with it.
The LaSalle St (that's where the B of T is located)? LaSalle St is intimately associated with the New York Central...
Rob, since many of the passengers were connected with finance, it was suggested that one train be named the Wall Street, and the other be named the Lasalle.
Dave told us of the Wall Streeter, which the Reading operated between Philadelphia and Jersey City. What road did operate a train named the Lasalle, and what was its other terminus? I thought of adding these two trains to the question after posting; will this be accepted as a tie breaker?
The Rock Island had the Chicago-Omaha LaSalle Street Limited. The Grand Trunk/Grand Trunk Western had a train called the La Salle from Montreal to Chicago before World War II with an eastbound counterpart Maple Leaf. I'm pretty sure you're looking for the Rock Island train.
Actually, Rob, I was thinking of the C&EI's LaSalle, which Lucius Beebe mentions on page 24 of his (and Charles Clegg's) The Trains We Rode. However, you did name two roads that used the name--and one of the two did use the LaSalle Street station (which the PRR did not use). So, you and Dave may fight it out as to which one asks the next question.
I have zero problem at all with Digesty asking the next question. Ask away!!
I'd be happy with you throwing another question, Johnny!
I meant Rob, sorry for Dislexia again, but either way is OK.
Here's one to hold a place. If Johnny wants to replace it, he's welcome.
All of this railroad's commuter equipment was bought new except for three trains. It had semi-lightweight cars, center entrance cars, and articulated cars bought for mainline trains. Commuter train power came from three different builders.
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