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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 20, 2014 7:14 AM

Saranac Lake or the junction for Saranac Lake

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:44 AM

Sranac was the junction for Lake Placid (actually reached on D&H trackage rights).  You are on the right line, you just got off a little early.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:19 AM

Actually, Clear Lake Junction was the junction for both Saranac Lake and Lake Placid, and I believe the station you are asking for is Malone.    Clear Lake Jc. was close to Saranac Lake.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 9:15 AM

Malone is the last junction.  Who or what rode the trains in either direction out of Malone in 1957(besides the crews) is a bit of a mystery to me.  The Rutland had given up carrying passengers on the Milk Train in 1953.  By 1957 the NYC trains would most likely have had a boiler GP7 or RS3, a baggage/express car and a single rider coach.  Maybe a 15 ft RPO on the train south of Malone.

Next question?

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:10 PM

Charlottesville, VA, had two railroad stations during  the classic era, through WWII and until real deterioration of passenger service began.  What were these stations named, and what railroads had trains stopping at each station, and what functions (two) did one of these stations perform other than loading passengers and head-end matters, and what end-points could be reached from these stations without changing (1) coaches, and (2) Pullman sleepers.  (You must give at least 15 of the latter!)

Bonus:  Charlottesville once had a streetcar line.   What was the name of the company and what  were the route and end-points?   Can you describe the cars? 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:41 PM

The two stations in Charlottesville were Main St (C&O) and Union (former Southern/C&O joint, now Amtrak).  Main St was where the C&O split trains from the West for Washington and Richmond/Newport News.  C&O trains stopped at both stations.  I came up with a few more than 15. 

On Southern

Washington DC

New York City

Sometimes Boston (Amtrak 1972-1974)

Atlanta

Birmingham

Montgomery

Mobile

New Orleans

Los Angeles (sleeper only)

Chatanooga

Nashville

Memphis

Asheville

Augusta

On Cheapeake and Ohio and connections

Newport News

Cincinnati

Chicago (NYC)

St Louis (with B&O, late 1960s to 1971)

Hot Springs

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 6:19 AM

Found a couple more...

C&O

Detroit

Southern

Shreveport LA (via Chattanooga - sleeper only)

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 8:15 AM

Two functions at the C&O station, splitting and combining Washington and Newport News sections AND engine change.   West of Charlottesville, generally 4-8-4 Greenbriars, east Pacifics or Hudsons.

Southern  (sleepers):

Jacksonvile, Fla

Raleigh, NC

C&O  (sleepers)

Toledo

New York City 

Louisville, KY

The Charlottesville and Albamarle Traction Co. had a single track line with passing sidings from the C&O station past Union Station and the U. of Va. campus to Fry Springs.   Ran single-truck cars like Birney's but not safety cars.  Don't know if they were one-man or two-man operated.

Next question is your RC  

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 9:07 AM

One of the specialty cars built for the never-operated Chessie streamliner had a feature not tried before on a train.  The failure of this feature during trial runs foretold the demise of the planned "Chessie".

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:08 AM

I would guess that the feature in question was the fish tank in the lounge car.  In fairness to the fish, the Chessie never ran since it was built for a market that didn't really exist (See B&O's experience with the original routing of the "Cincinnatian").

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:24 AM

The feature that failed was the fish's survival?

I thought it was motion picture projection, where the vibration caused the projector to jitter and be unable to project a stable image and low-distortion sound from an optical sound track.

Another C&O sleeper destination:  White Sulfur Springs

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:13 AM

I was thinking of the fish tank.  The tank itself worked OK, but the fish got motion sick.  The problem with the projector was ultimately solved, as C&O (and later B&O) showed movies in the Dining car after dinner during the 1960s.  Few of the Chessie's special design features were used by the cars' later purchasers.  On the otherhand C&O's castoffs from the Chessie and the giant Pullman-Standard order helped a fair number of low-budget operations get new cars in the early 1950s

CSS, your question.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, January 23, 2014 10:04 AM

Speaking of fish, the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago used to own a private car for the transportation of exotic fish and other sea creatures.  What was the name of this car.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:12 PM

Nautilus II was the lightweight car that replaced a custom-built heavyweight car Nautilus in 1957.  The original Nautilus carried 18 tons of seawater.  Maybe C&O and Budd built the tank too small on the Chessie...

Nautilus II was converted from C&EI lunch counter lounge car #602.  No mention of what was on the menu after Shedd acquired it.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, January 24, 2014 10:04 AM

I remember seeing "Nautilus II" parked at IC's 18th Street coach yard from the Outer Drive.  Rcdrye, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:25 PM

The Baldwin Locomotive works was known as one of the world's largest.  In the ealy 1900s it built locomotive orders for two railways with the same corporate name in different parts of the world.  What was the railways' common name?

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:32 PM

Great Northern Railway.

IIRC, the British GNR received 20 H-1 2-6-0s from Baldwin around 1900. The US GNR had many built by Baldwin.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, January 26, 2014 4:05 PM

NorthWest

Great Northern Railway.

IIRC, the British GNR received 20 H-1 2-6-0s from Baldwin around 1900. The US GNR had many built by Baldwin.

Excellent!  I had to verify that both of them used "Railway".  GNR (UK) was grouped into the LNER (London North Eastern) in 1923, and GN (USA) merged into Burlington Northern in 1970.

All yours, NorthWest!

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:50 PM

Thanks,

An easy one to keep it moving:

This city was home to the third steam powered elevated, and seems an unlikely location. Name the city.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 27, 2014 6:18 AM

Sioux City South Dakota.  The Sioux City Elevated Railway was a mixed elevated and surface operation that opened with Forney-type engines in 1891, was electrified in 1892.  I can't find photos, but I'm fairly certain the line was operated from trolley wire (with so-called "locomotive cars" and trailers, not MU cars). The lines promotors went bankrupt after the panic of 1893, and at least the elevated section of the line was abandoned around 1899.  Like many contemporary cable and streetcar lines, it was largely built for real estate promotion.  Sioux City also had cable cars.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 27, 2014 9:35 AM

This was not the third elevated, becaise originally, the 2nd 3rd, 6th, and 9th Ave.elevateds in Manhattan were all different elevated companies, and Brooklyn had two major elevated companies, Chicago four.  It wasn't the third city, because Brooklyn and New York were separate cities then.  The villages in Queens s were separate communities.  Soux City was thus the fourth city with steam-powered elevated trains.  And the 11th company!   

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, January 27, 2014 10:23 AM

RC gets it.

Although, Dave, thank you for that information. I forgot about Brooklyn not being part of NYC at the time.

RC, your turn!

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 12:49 PM

Continuing steam elevated railways...  This company's steam operation shared track with two other elevated railways, both of which were electrified.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 4:51 PM

The LIRR continued summer steam operation to Coney Island over the Culver Line tracks used simultaneously by Brooklyn United and then BRT elevated rapid transit trains and local streetcars,,, also to Sands Street Termiinal on electrified elevated tracks.   New York and New England trains came into Manhattann over the Putnam Line Bridge and terminated at the 155th Street 9th (and 6th) Avenue elevated liine terminal (actuallly at 155th and 8th Ave.) untill the el was extended over the bridge to connect with the Jerome Avenue structure of the Lexington Avenue Subway (but the el provided the first service).   Chicago's elevated lines were electrified at different times, some after they all began sharing the downtown Loop, making for mixed steammm and electric operation on the Loop.   The 9th and 6th Avenue elevateds were converted to electricity at different times, making for mixed operation on tracks they shared south of Rector Street to South Ferry.   Ditto 2nd and 3rd Avenue, mixed south of Chatham Square to S. F.   Suburban Transit, running its own trains from 129th Street to Treemont Avenue, The Bronx,  was the last of the "Manhattan" elevateds to be  converted, converted with through operation of 3rd Avenue trains, but before that its steam shared the tracks at the 129th Street station

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 8:25 PM

So separate out the place where steam shared with two electrics for a time.  If it helps there was a fourth company later,after steam operation ended.  For at least part of the shared line, there was a cable car operation below.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:56 AM

I know State Street had cable operation, but I am unsure whether you mean Congress, Wabash, Lake, or Wells for the Chicago Loop "side" that had a cable-car line under the elevated structure.  Southside "L" converted to electric operation with MU'S after one of the others converted with electric locomotive, I think Metropolitan or Northwest.   I think, but am not certain, that Lake Street elevated was the last holdout for steam.   And the added company, long afterward, was of course the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee.   So the place was the Chicago Loop.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:13 AM

South Side Rapid Transit. (Don't forget the period,it was on the letterboard of all of the cars).  SSRT shared the Loop with the Lake Street Elevated Railway[.] and the Metropolitan West Side Elevated Railway for about a year before electrification.  SSRT and MWSE shared the inner loop operating clockwise, LSER operated counterclockwise on the outer loop.  in 1900, after SSRT electrified, the Northwestern Elevated Railway joined the loop, sharing the outer track with Lake St.  By the time the North Shore arrived, all of the companies were operating under the name Chicago Elevated Railways (Collateral Trust), though the underlying companies remained intact into the 1920s at least.

The cable line was the Chicago City Railway.  The CCRY's Wabash avenue line and State Street line had originally shared a double track loop on Madison, Wabash, Lake and State which may have been the Loop before the L loop was built.  In 1893 the State and Wabash loops were separated, with State retaining the original loop, and Wabash looping via Madison, Michiganand Randolph back to Wabash.  This setup involved a two block stretch between Madison and Randolph where the cable cars ran left-handed to avoid having to cross the slots.  The Lake St. L built to Wabash in 1895, covering part of the Wabash loop, and the second leg was completed in 1897, covering the State loop's northeast corner, the left-hand double track stretch and the entire Wabash line south to Van Buren.  SSRT's connection covered Wabash south from Van Buren to Harrison after the Van Buren and Fifth Ave. (Wells St) sides were completed.

Dave, you're welcome to the next question.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:09 AM

Continuing with this theme, there were five arangements (possibly six) in the United States when trains built exclusively for rapid transit service carried pasengers over electrically operated tracks of Class I railroads (I am not aboslutely certain about the Class I status of one railroad,) either in regularly scheduled service or a special service, not railfan specials.  Alll the railroads were part of the national frieght network.  You must know four to answer, and one is on a railroad that operated one of the USA's crack streamliners, a long distance train that operated at one time behind steam.  Undoubtadly at  times on a track used by the rapid transit car passenger train movements.  In all cases except one there was level boarding of the rapid transit cars. For one case special steps were provided at one destination.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:16 AM

I  thought that the prohibition of streetcar tracks on Michigan Avenue had always been in effect.   The information that there was a cablecar track, even just for two blocks, surprises me.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 10:16 AM

daveklepper

I  thought that the prohibition of streetcar tracks on Michigan Avenue had always been in effect.   The information that there was a cablecar track, even just for two blocks, surprises me.

It surprised the people building the parking garage under Michigan Avenue in the 1960s, too.  The Chicago Park District was formed in 1893, the year after the cable track was laid.  In service until 1906, they weren't actually removed until the garage was built.  CSL and later CTA used a turnback loop on Garland Court, midway between Wabash and Michigan.

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