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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:46 PM

At least one of the tunnels was built by IC's Vicksburg, Shreveport and Pacific.  That's the one leading to the Mississippi bridge.  The other two - at least based on where they are - look like they are ex-Y&MV  and ex-V&M.  There's really a short fourth tunnel but it was built over the VS&P line as part of the I-20/Bus US 61 interchange. All of them appear to be of masonry construction.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:45 PM

I know of only two in Vicksburg; there is another one elsewhere in the state--and I have been through all of those.

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Posted by Wizlish on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:34 PM

The three tunnels are all in Vicksburg, but doggone if I remember exactly which entity built them...at least one was built in part to facilitate the ferry operation to Delta Point on the other side, but I've read references that freight transshipment (before the gauges were all standardized around 1885) had to be handled by elevator from blufftop level down to the river.  So whether it was Vicksburg & Meridian or Alabama & Vicksburg, I don't know.  (The bridge over the Mississippi, 1928-30, came after IC got the route in 1926.)   Tunnels are now on the IC/ICG/Midsouth/KCS/MSLLC ... but I think one of them still goes down to the north-south tracks by the river... ex-Yazoo & Mississippi Valley?  Did any get built by KCS after they straightened things post-1994 ... I know they did quite a bit of work on the tunnel under Washington Street rather recently.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 12:18 PM

What railroads found it necessary to bore tunnels in Mississippi (there are three tunnels, all still in use)? Where are they?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 11:16 AM

Johnny has it!  The James Y Lockwood (actually owned by the Natchez & Louisiana Transfer Co., owned by Missouri Pacific, originally St. Louis Iron Mountain and Southern) served until 1961, for most of the time in company with the barge Baysinger II.  MP diesel towboat Natchez replaced it in 1961. MP owned the Natchez and Southern, which operated the 4% incline (including two switchbacks) on the Natchez side, connecting to the Mississippi Central.

When the ferry was embargoed in June 1982 "for repairs" it was the last railroad ferry on the Mississippi.  Just missed the UP merger by six months.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:23 AM

rcdrye

You are on the correct river.  Just go upstream a bit.  Remember that the ferry operation was small enough to allow the use of a stern-wheeler.

 

Louisiana Midland's ferry between Vidalia, La., and Natchez, Miss.? In 1962, there was connecting freight service with the Mississippi Central, which ran between Natchez and Hattiesburg.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 8:00 AM

You are on the correct river.  Just go upstream a bit.  Remember that the ferry operation was small enough to allow the use of a stern-wheeler.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 7:57 AM

Harahan, LA`- Avondale, MI, across the Mississippi, not sure either IC or SP?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 2:21 PM

The incline to the ferry was embargoed for repair in 1982.  The repairs were completed, but apparently the traffic detour during the embargo was cheaper than handling the traffic with the ferry.  1982 is post-Staggers Act, so it would have been fairly easy to abandon.

In the last few years of its operation, the stern-wheeler was lashed to a steel barge which actually carried the cars, though as far as I know the rails were never removed from the ferry's deck.  The replacement tug simply took over pushing the barge.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 1:37 PM

In 1982 was it a bridge or a line abandonment that put the carfloat operatoin out of business?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 9:06 AM

Now you have it nicely bracketed. The Algiers car float at New Orleans didn't last too long after the Huey Long Bridge opened.

The stern wheeler was replaced by a tug and a steel barge, which continued the operation until 1982.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:46 AM

Ifcar ferries were used at New Orleans, then it would be a logical place.  I know there is a passenger ferry in use there, but I forget the name of the opposite terminal.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:18 AM

daveklepper

Detroit - Windsor?   CN-GT?

 

Bit further south.  Remember - sternwheeler.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:05 AM

Detroit - Windsor?   CN-GT?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 13, 2015 7:38 PM

This was the location of the last stern-wheel railroad car ferry, replaced by a barge in early 1961.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 13, 2015 4:12 PM

I should have gotten the Quincy line.  Of course it's paralelled by the restored Old Colony service today.  I'll probably post something tomorrow AM.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 13, 2015 3:23 PM

I will say you are the winner.  The branch to Quincy is on the old Old Colony RoW, but the route from Andrew through Ashmont to Mattapan is on what was the New Haven's Shawmut Branch.  The Old Colony itself had passenger service through to about 1949 or 1950.  Of course, also part of the NYNH&H. 

The original Cambridge Dorchester Tunnel cars were the heaviest rapid transit cars built and the first to be ten feet wide.  They were 71ft. long with three large doors on each side and no vestibules.   They set the pattern for the BMT "Standards," or B-types (A and B-types actually), which Stillwell designed to be much lighter.  They ran from the original opening of the Cambrdige subway in 1914 to around 1967.

The Ashmont - Mattapan high-speed line was the area's first true light rail line but always used less than the latest streetcar equipment,  It opened in 1929 with Type 4s based at the Dorchester Car House.  Conversion of the Dorchester lines to trackless trolley and bus in 1948 led to an April move to the Arborway yard with use of Type 5 cars instead following.  The purchase of the second group of Dallas double-end PCCs saw six or seven of the 25 total ex-Dallas fleet replacing the 5s at Mattapan.   The present "Wartime" single-end, now air-conditioned, PCCs went there when the Boeing fleet was complete on the Green Line.

One of the Boston Elevevated, later MTA, streetcar lines connecting with the rapid transit line at Fields Corner Station was the Fields Corner - Neponset line converted to bus and then trackless trolley in 1948.  The Eastern Massachusetts line to Quincy used these tracks to reach Fields Corner station, with operaters exchanged at Neponset and the Eastern Mass cars providing additional service on the Boston Elevated - MTA line, with a few E. M. cars overnight at the Dorchester carhouse.  The replacement buses ran nonstop Fields Corner - Neponset.

 

Look forward to your question

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 13, 2015 8:53 AM

Red Line and Mattapan high-speed line, from NYNH&H Old Colony? 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 13, 2015 8:14 AM

There is enough information given that coming up with the answer should be very easy, and I cannot fathom why nobody has done so.   I'll give it a day, but no more.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 12, 2015 4:37 PM

the last hints before I give up, give the answers, and ask a new question.  The rapid transit portion of the line had a station that not only connected with streetcars of the system, but also streetcars of a second system.  Long after bus conversion of all streetcars at this station, not the station connecting to the light rail line, which still runs, a branch of the rapid transit line, again using an ex-railroad right-of-way restored electric rail service to the town reached by the second system.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, July 11, 2015 3:23 PM

There was a track connection, not existing now, between your answer and the correct answer.

The LRT has always been run with streetcars, never the latest type.

The steam road branch was largely in a cut, which has been roofed, making most of the heavy rapid transit portion like a typical subway.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 10, 2015 8:39 AM

The requested light rail line was converted from a steam railroad line much earlier than the Highland Branch, and I do not know of any NYC/B&A trackage converted to heavy rapid transit.  The original E. Boston Tunnel rapid-transit cars were the smallest and lightest of their time, not the largest and heaviest, and this is true of their replacements today.  The Highland Branch has been worked, since conversion to now the D Green Line, by PCCs, by Boeing Light-Rail cars, and now by a mixture of Breda and KinkyShearo Light-Rail cars.  But there is a physical tie-in from your answer to the correct one.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 9, 2015 11:13 AM

I'm thinking Boston, where today's "D" branch of the "T"'s Green Line is ex-B&A/NYC, originally using PCCs (with left side doors) and later various types of articulated subway/surface LRV cars.  The "T" did have some very heavy subway cars used in East Boston Tunnel service, today's Blue Line, but that doesn't match up (at least for me) with B&A/NYC.  A bit of the Blue Line is parallel to the B&A's branch that served East Boston and Everett.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 9, 2015 10:45 AM

Second hint:  The steel rapid transit cars were the heaviest ever built for subway service, but inspired the design of a much larger group of considerably lighter but otherwise similar cars for a different system in a different city.

Both groups of steel cars operated well into the post-WWII era.

The light rail line has never had cars specificalliy designed for light rail as opposed to streetcar or mixed streetcar-light-rail use.

Since both the light rail line and the heavy rapid transit line were both created from the same steam railroad line, it should be obvious that both have always been part of the same transit system.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 8, 2015 4:45 AM

Hint: Both conversions, the heavy rapid transit line, and also the light rail line, were from the same steam railroad line.   Freight service has NOT been handled since conversion except for a parallel freight siding track not connectied to the adjacent line, but only to the major carrier.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 7, 2015 12:03 PM

need`a hint?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 6, 2015 12:56 PM

Please answer if you think you know the answer to both questions:

1.  What was the first conversion of a steam railroad line to a true light rail line in infrastructure that is still operating today, and what type of rolling stock was first used, and what today?   Why is it distinguished today from all other North American true light rail lines?   What was the major modification to this equipment?

2.  What was the first conversion of a steam railroad line to a true rapid transit line, using steel, not wood, equipment, that is operating today, and what type of equipment was this steel equipment, what were the innovations of this equjipment (all standard practice today), and what equip;ment is in use today?

(By excluding wood equipment, I mean to remove Chicago's Northside Elevated extension to Evanston and Winnetka via ex-CMSt.P&P RoW and the conversion of the four railroads to Coney Island to handle BRT elevated trains.)

Extra point.   Air conditioning as we know it was not available when the second line was opened.   What was the practical substitute, generally not available on other systems?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, July 6, 2015 10:57 AM

Well, Dave had the most guesses...  Take it away, Dave!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, July 6, 2015 10:02 AM

I'm going to have to pass on this one.  rcdrye can select the next questioner.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, July 4, 2015 5:50 PM

Waiting for CSS's  question.

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