The porter did not have a room. The men's lavatory was at one end, and the women's lavatory was at the opposite end of the car.
These cars (built to Plan 2412-H) did have four more rooms that those built to the other versions of Plan 2412.
Johnny
Your question implied that the only sleepingi accomodations were 14 sections. I am confused. Were there also sleeping accomodatons in private rooms?
Could these four Sections have been early versions of what we'd later come to know as Roomettes?
Mark
KCSfan Could these four Sections have been early versions of what we'd later come to know as Roomettes? Mark
These four sections were at the women's lavatory end of the car; on each side there was a section, two small rooms (not for sleeping), and a section.
This morning, looking at the page in my book that shows them, I saw that only twenty cars were rebuilt to this plan; the other two I mentioned were built to a different variation of the basic 16 section plan. Sixteen of the cars may have been rebuilt for service on the B&O; they have the same series name, and I know three were in service on the B&O. the other four were rebuilt for service on the Southern's premium train, and were given the names of well-known men in the South.
In a section sleepinig car, what would small rooms be used for? Room for a porter, OK, restrooms, OK. what other use is a small room in a section sleeper? Conductor's room for doing his paperwork? Linen and blanket storage? Soap and towels and other supplies?
Room for a porter? The rooms were roughly 3' x 3' 9"--room to stand up in. They all served the same purpose, and are described as "annexes."
Annexes are always lavatories. I presume these are for men only, with unrinals.
No, they were not for men only, and, according to the floor plan, there were no urinals in them; indeed, you could call them half-baths.
Think about their position in the car, with respect to the private sections.
daveklepper Annexes are always lavatories. I presume these are for men only, with unrinals.
Since there were four of these "annexes" I can't imagine they were men's lavatories. The facilities in the men's lounge at the opposite end of the car were quite adequate. There may be some significance to their location next to the sections adjacent to the women's lounge but I can't tie that to any specific purpose. About the only thing I can think of is that they were for the storage of over size carry on luggage or perhaps items such as golf clubs that one didn't trust to as checked baggage.
The physical layout almost suggests "immigrant cars" that had mini kitchens.
Deggesty No, they were not for men only, and, according to the floor plan, there were no urinals in them; indeed, you could call them half-baths. Think about their position in the car, with respect to the private sections.
You've got me back to thinking about their connection to the sections at the women's lounge end of the car. If there was just one "annex" I might think it contained a small basin for bathing a baby but I can't imagine there was a need for four such facilities.
Four private sections, each one is next to an annex.
I'm confused and maybe this has been mentioned before but did these annexes contain a toilet and a wash basin?
KCSfan Deggesty No, they were not for men only, and, according to the floor plan, there were no urinals in them; indeed, you could call them half-baths. Think about their position in the car, with respect to the private sections. You've got me back to thinking about their connection to the sections at the women's lounge end of the car. If there was just one "annex" I might think it contained a small basin for bathing a baby but I can't imagine there was a need for four such facilities. Mark
OK, so they were toilets with pull-down sinks that could fold up out of the way when wanted to sit on the toilet, like most roomettes had if my memory is correct. Or were they showers? Or all three facilities in one compact room, shower, toilet, sink.
No shower; back in those days, all the showers were in public cars, such as lounge cars. No difference between the fixtures in these rooms and the same fixtures in the men's and women's lavatories. If it had a shower, the room would have been a three-quarter bathroom.
Johnny:
Do you have a floor plan for the Silver Chateau and Silver Veranda? Wayner's "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" does not have plans for any of the 1956 DZ cars.
Ed Burns
enburns@Comcast.net
763-234-9306 cell
Ed, I'm sorry, but I cannot help you. The only book I have with lightweight floor plans is Wayner's book.
OK, but I am correct in saying they were lavatories. Do I get to ask the next question? Or what else is needed? Now the question could remain were they exclusively for the four sections at that end of the car or were they for use by any of the passengers in that car? If the doors faced the center aisle, what would prevent any passenger from using them? Or did a car of this type always run at the front or rear of the train with a door closing the aisle fo the four specific sections and their lavatories? But that is not realistic if the men's and ladies' rooms were at ends of the car, opposite ends.
daveklepper OK, but I am correct in saying they were lavatories. Do I get to ask the next question? Or what else is needed? Now the question could remain were they exclusively for the four sections at that end of the car or were they for use by any of the passengers in that car? If the doors faced the center aisle, what would prevent any passenger from using them? Or did a car of this type always run at the front or rear of the train with a door closing the aisle fo the four specific sections and their lavatories? But that is not realistic if the men's and ladies' rooms were at ends of the car, opposite ends.
Incidentally, the inner sanctums in the lavatories are called "saloons."
My question, as part of general civic improvements, a beautiful streetcar or light rail terminal has been constructed with new girder rail in a loop, a platform slightly above sidewalk level for level boarding with low-floor cars, a shelter, and benches. But it is only served by a bus line (or bus lines), and there is a gap between the new rails and the rails of the operating overhead wire powered system, and wire has not been installed on the new (now more than several years old) construction. At one time the operating authority promised restoration of rail service to this location, but has stated it has not any intenition now of fulfilling this commmitment.
Name the line, what if anything it does now, and the operating authoroity. If you can, give the history, optional. If you can name all trolley lines (streetcar and light rail) that served this location during WWII, optonal. If you can, again optional, give the operating authorities general policy that opposes restoration of service.
Hint: In the classic era there were seven streetcar or light rail lines terminating at or near the location and third rail elecric service nearby. This latter still exists,but on a new alignment along with new overhed wire service that does not and could not possibly use the new streetcar loop and station that is used only bues now.
More hints. An extensive carhouse was in the area. Now there is a bus garage. Rail service on the third rail operation nearby stops at an interchange station with a different name -but a name somehow relaated as to kind. The current electric rail service that employs overhead wire technology does not stop in the area. The line for which the loop and station were built still operates but was shortened to what was a short-turn loop, and on weekends may still be shortened further, although there were protests against this meassure.
.
I'd like to say part of the TTC system, but maybe Boston? Can't find anything.
It sounds like Boston's Arborway area. The "E" Green Line has been cut back to Heath Circle, and the Arborway Orange Line station is on a different place than the old one. The one-time Arborway carhouse was also near the end of the "E" branch.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. EXCEPT THAT I THINK IT IS CALLED FOREST HILLS, NOT ARBORWAY ON THE ORANGE LINE, THE THIRD RAIL LINE. SOME DIESEL COMMUTER TRAINS STOP NEARBY, OR DID, AND THAT STATION IS ALSO FOREST HILLS OR WAS. AS PART OF THE BIG DIG MONEY RECEIVED, PROMISES WERE MADE TO IMPROVE PUBLIC TANSIT INCLUDING RESTORATION OF THE E GREEN LINE TO ARBORWAY. SOME MERCHANTS OBJECED TO LOOSING STREET PARKING, AND THE T USED THAT ALONG WITH GENERAL DISFAVOR OF SHARING TRACK LANES WITH GENERAL TRAFFIC AS AN EXCUSE TO NIX THE PROJECT. THE RESULT IS WASTEFUL DUPLICATION OF THE ARBORWAY BUS AND THE HEATH STREET SUBWAY-SURFACE L;INE ALL THE SAY FROM HEATH STREETO ARLINGTON AND BOYLSTON STREETS AND BOSTON NOT GETTING FULL VALUE FROM THE INVESTMENT IN THE HUNTINGTON AVENUE SUBWAY. ACELA AND NORTHEAST REGIONAL TRAINS ARE NOW UNDER WIRE NEARBY, NOT STOPPING OF COURSE
IN THE CLASSIC ERA, THE ARBORWAY STATION SAW SUBWA-SURFACE SERVICE TO PARK STREET, AND STREETCAR SERVICE TO CHARLES RIVER LOOP, DEDHAM LINE, CLEARY SQUARE, HYDE PARK, AND MATTAPAN VIA CUMMINGS HIGHWAY. AND ALSO UNDER THE ELEVATED TO EGGLESTON.
NEXT QUESTION?
rc, we are waiting for your question, and pardon my impatience.
In 1957 it was still possible, if you were adventurous, to board a train in New York at 8:30 on Saturday night and ride on the trains of a single railroad company to Montreal Quebec. (The southbound trip worked daily except Sunday). Name the stations where train changes were necessary.
NEW YORK CENTRAL, UTICA, MANASSES
New York Central is right. Utica is the first change place but MAssena is not the second, since NYC service via Massena was gone by 1957, and in any case was a CN connection. BTW the connection worked Sunday thru Thursday is you didn't mind waiting 21 hours for the continuation.
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