No, Dave, the original DZ needed--and had--only two sets of equipment.
The train I am looking for left its northern terminal in the mid-afternoon and arrived at its destination more than twenty-four hours later. Northbound, it left about breakfast time and arrived after breakfast time--it needed three sets.
Johnny
Just a guess, but the original Burlington articulated Denver Zephyr
I last rode the City, from Carbondale to Carrollton Avenue, in the spring of 1970--and there was no car from St. Louis then. The Panama still had a St. Louis sleeper, and I had planned to take it from St. Louis, but a freight train delayed the Wabash Cannonball from Detroit, and I had to spend the night in St. Louis--and I also spent the night between Memphis and and Carrollton Avenue because of electrical trouble on the engines (two Geeps were put on the point above Memphis, and they could not make the schedule). I did have time to catch the Southern Crescent up to Tuscaloosa.
Early streamliners again: what all-coach lightweight train that required three sets of equipment had three named coaches (I think it was three; I do not have access to my information in the assisted living facility wherein I am immured), and each set had the same three names on these coaches?
I figured this would get a quick answer. The Louisville section reverted to a standalone train in the 1940s before being dropped entirely in the 1950s. The St. Louis cars via Carbondale lasted right up to the end of IC operation. Most of the "feature" cars of the City of New Orleans were rebuilt heavyweights, including the diners and observation cars. Some of IC's 1942 Pullman-Standard 56-seat coaches carried names picked for the train - these cars were "assigned" to the City. It wasn't long before the pool cars were found on the train as well. Both the St Louis and Louisville (via Paducah) through coaches were single cars with other cars on those sections operating locally.
The Louisville-New Orleans through car was dropped early on.
CIty of New Orleans--Chicago/St. Louis/Louisville-New Orleans?
This daytime streamliner consisted of new cars and rebuilt heavyweights, and ran between one southern destination and three (later two) northern ones. Name the train and endpoints.
That is the answer. Far Rockaway is within NY. There is about 14/-1/3 mile between the LIRR and A-train station, and I think the RoW between them is being preserved. Before the over-the-bay line was taken over by the subway system, LIRR trains had a multiplicity of routes, including both Brooklyn and Penn Station to Rockaway Beach via Jamaica and Far Rockaway via the "Hammels Wye" which is still usable. Many trains just ran around the loop in both directions going to Far Rockaway over the bay and returning via Jamaica, and the reverse, and some starting at Penn and ending at Brooklyn and reverse. I think about 18 combinations were possible, including of course direct service to Rockaway Beach from both Brooklyn and Penn over the bay.
So you are up for another question.
The current LIRR line is shown on MTA maps as the "Far Rockaway Branch". The "A" MTA line, which traverses part of the LIRR's one time Rockaway Beach branch, meets the LIRR at the Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue station at the end of the Far Rockaway - Mott Avenue branch.
RC, please look at a map and refine your answer. Possibly a map 1970 - today and one 1950.
Currently, there is no Rockaway "Beach" LIRR line. Also, transit service to Rockaway Beach usually requires a transfer at Broad Channel or JFK stations to a shuttle, except for some through rush hour A trains, and possibly special summer service.
Also, should have commented earlier, Brookline, MA, although a P. O. address, is politically part of Boston. Like Brooklyn being part of NY. Cambridge, Newton, Watertown, Qunicy, etc. are susburbs. Mattapan and Dorchester and Chelsea and Revere and Sommerville are similar to Brooklne.
I was thinking the Dyre Avenue #5 line (ex-NYW&B) which I thought was close to a commuter rail service. Probably MN Harlem line (Williams Bridge?)
LIRR Rockaway Beach line? The south end of the line is now an IND subway line of NYCTA, with the northern part out of service. LIRR's Far Rockaway branch also serves the Rockaway section of New York.
OK Another hint. Both the public transit system and the commuter railroad use compatible 600V third-rail power.
But 1. my commuter railroad line still exists and reenters the city at its terminal, not in its middle, and 2. the light-rail cars on the Riverside Line cannot draw electrical power at the present time, maybe in the future, on the Boston and Albany - NYCentraaql - CSX - T Purple Line route.
The rapid transit cars on the public transit route can draw power on the tracks of the commuter railroad.
Hoever, I may need to apologize. Instead of 50 years ago, it may have been somewhat over 45 years ago that tracks on a route used by the same commuter railroad began being used by public transit.
I have to think you're talking about the "D" Riverside Green Line in Boston, which is former B&A(NYC), and met the B&A main line at the Riverside end. MBTA acquired the line in the late 1950s. The "D" and "C" Green lines come closest at Reservoir (D) and Cleveland Circle (C). The Riverside "D" line re-enters Boston for a short bit between the suburbs of Brookline and Newton.
OK, here is the give-away hint. Part of the public transit rail route was once owned and operated by the commuter railroad.
For the past fifty years one has a choice to go to city from the terminal community, part of the city if distant, via either rail transit or suburban railroad. But 60 years go the choice was bus to the rail transit or the railroad. There were also express buses and may still be. I thnnk only weekday rush hours.
Another hint: The public transit route uses equipment that could operate on the commuter rail route except for compatibility with ATS/ATC, etc. Could probably make the trip at restricted speed and/or with a preceding pilot train. But the commuter route equipment would not get very far on the public transit route if leaving from downtown and get only about 1/3 or the way if leaving from the distant terminal.
Hint: End points are also served by the city's public transit system, if one doesn't mind about a 1/3-mile walk from the distant termnal. Also usually a one-seat ride on public transit, although there are times on both public transit and the commuter railroad when one change is needed. The public transit route does not meander outside the city to different municipalities. Still, it takes about 1/2-hour longer. At a considerably lower fare, even counting multi-ride or monthly pass coummter discounts on the commuter railroad.
And all this was also true 50 years ago. But not 70 years ago. 70 years ago the public transit option would have been quite different, not provided a one-seat ride, and taken about an hour or more longer.
I should point out that a careful historian doing research may point out that I was wrong about block circuitry on the original B&O electrification, since they may have done it on the cheap by using one rail as ground return and the other with insulated joints as block signal circuit carrier, allowing retaining simiple DC. This would not allow detection of a broken rail, however. And it was probably replaced by AC with either shunts or resonant bridging fo insulated joints long before the end of the electrification after WWWII. But I am sure Vissula was the test bed for audio frequency signal control current.
My quesiton is: Name the railroad and the particular line that runs from the terminal city, has one or more stops in that city, serves a significant number of individual suburbs, and then has a distant terminal, the destination of the line, within the city's boundaries, not by any means the originating terminal.
I hate to say it, but my question was actually much more trivial than the level of thinking you have done -- which deserves not one, but several additional threads to explore (and I'm not yet up to much of the required engineering).
What I had noted was that the Visalia Electric was the testbed for the searchlight signals on Southern Pacific, just as it was for the 15Hz electrification. Of course the searchlight technology became more well used!
Dave, you have richly earned the next question, I think.
The above may or may not been true, but there was one signal innovation that was certain. Audio-frequency signal track circiuts imposed on industrial-frequency power circuits. Vissula Electric must have been the pioneer of this technology used soon after by the NYNH&H and then the PRR and Reading and GN, later the B&M.
The problem to solve is how to have continuous ground power return current acorss the divisions between singal blocks. The B&O probably solved this problem in their pioneering Camden Tunnel Electrification by having heavy indcutors in parallel with capacitors across insulated joints, tunned for a close-to infinite impedance at 25Hz or 60Hz with the track circuit tuned to that frequency and DC power encountering minimum resistance in the inductors. By the time of the Central's GCT electrification and the orginal PRR - LIRR Penn Sta. electrification, possibly also the electrication of the elevateds and the LIRR Brooklyn - Jamaica, tuned criciuits across the rails at block lijmits allowed rail return to be soncinuous without insulated joints, but again using commercial power signal frequencies superimposed on DC power. Use of AC power posed a new challange, and the signal current frequency had tp be moved to the audio range.
I have not been able to do any real additional research. The very first application of both searchlight signals and electric motors for switches in North America were located elsewhere. So my conclusion is this: The Vissula Electric was short enough, so withing the capacity of the technology and economics of the time, all congrolled switches and all controlled signals were controlled from one tower, making it the originator of a primitive form of CTC.
Dave, you have it, but don't guess. What was it and why was it significant?
Color searchlight signals replacing semaphores? Electric switch machines and/or interlockings?
rcdryeWas the VE an early user of telephone dispatching?
Warmer. Truth to tell, I don't know if they were. What I'm thinking of was more important to SP.
I'll have to dig a bit for the gas-electrics. Was the VE an early user of telephone dispatching?
The use of electricity I'm thinking of is different, and its primary early significance was on steam main lines.
Find me a reference to the gas-electrics; I find some indication they (it?) used an 8-cylinder motor powering 4 trucks, 44 tons; presumably this would resemble one of the contemporary GE powerplants?
The VE did have some very early gas-electric locomotives, used for switching packing sheds that weren't equipped with overhead wire.
From a post on Trainorders that describes some details:
" ... VE's electrification. SP had a head start in that business. SP company documents show that SP was cashing in on the "interurban craze" of the 1900s, and they had a power producer in the family...Collis' nephew, Henry, head of Pacific Power and Light, who was already at work building both the Borel, Kern River and Big Creek Projects, all formidable and highly advanced hydroelectric projects of those times. The reasoning was that SP could get a foothold in the San Joaquin interurban business and test out the unusual 15 Hz AC traction at the same time, testing the feasibility for eletrification of not only the Fresno line, but also possibly Tehachapi, for SP. The instant reason for Huntington's interest in these projects was to power his burgeoning Pacific Electric, as well as to corner the cheap hydroelectric generation business to Southern California with the shortest transmission lines. However, all these projects used the GE 60 Hz system rather than Westinghouse's 50 Hz, so for low speed traction, they needed rotary convertors that would divide the 60 down by four to a more workable frequency. Thus, instead of the distributed 25 Hz normally seen in the East for industrial work, PP&L could provide VE with 15 Hz GE rotary convertors, which worked splendidly. Once Henry died, the "grand amalgamation" of power companies in Los Angeles County occurred, which created Southern California Edison Co, which still is the power provider for that portion of the San Joaquin, using Big Creek power, to this day. I am an heir of some of the original 1917 "grand amalgamation" preferred stock. Up until the end, SCE feeders fed all PE converter stations under and agreement SCE worked out with PE and SP during the sale of PP&L assets, much to the constant consternation of LA DWP in LA city territory. The big loser in the "grand amalgamation" of 1917? Southern Sierras Power Co., later "Calectric," which finally gave up and was absorbed fully into Edison in 1964."
It would appear that this line was notable for a different electrical 'first' on SP, in the 1920s. This was more successful and widespread in adoption. What was it?
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