RC: Should I give you another hint or ask a new question? Maybe this topic is not of interest?
Hint: One of the last battery-car lines was the 110th Street Crosstown. Its western end was at the 125th Street Ferry Terminal, and part of its rout was on 125th Street. The remenants of a disused switch gave evidence of its formet existance into 1947.
The transit service provided on most of the portion of 110th Street that this battery streetcar line covered, after the battery cars quit, was provided only by double-deck 5th Avenue coach buses.
This was NOT the battery car line subject to freight-train interference.
You wandered all over the map. Metropolitan was the overall leasing company, but the various systems did retain ownership and reverted to operate their lines after Metropolitan went bankrupt. You mentioned all forms of power except one of the two most obvious and long-lasting in New York, and you mentioned one form of power that was only experimental and this was not battery. One of the systems, and only one, successfully did replace horsecars for a while with battery cars, but they were not much faster, battery costs and replacements exceeded estimates, and eventually one or two of these lines were very early bus converstion by a basically streetcar company, or just abandoned altogether, in a few cases taken over by a specific bus company. Note the time frame. Near the end and for many prior years, two forms, then one for the last few years. With your knowledge, should be obvious.
You might wish to do some research as to just which lines were operated for a time with battery cars. And what became of the specific cars used. You will find it of considerable interest.
Actually, the longest battery-car line was abandoned because of freight-train congestion, just about the time that plans were beginning to be considered for removal of the source of that congestion. The congestion existed on about 35% of the total rout.
All the company's battery-car lines were former horsecar lines, and the investment in the battery cars was by no means totally wasted.
Hmm, let's see. Metropolitan Railways (or its predecessors and successors) at various times had horse, cable, battery, compressed air and conduit electric operation. The battery and compressed air were attempts to avoid cable, but in the end cable was installed, even on a crosstown line considered "too light" for cable. New York still had horse operation on one line until the 1920s. Third Avenue Railway System experimented with battery cars in the Bronx in the 1920s, hoping that then-current batteries could hold enough charge for a Birney-sized car (They did, but the test ended without any further battery use).
3' 6" was probably the most common non-standard cable gauge, with systems in Denver, LA, San Diego, Oakland, San Francisco, Portland, Tacoma and Seattle (and maybe others). Of those, Denver, LA and Portland retained it after electrification. There were a few broad gauge cable lines but, except for Pittsburgh and Philadelphia where the gauge was required by state law, only Baltimore kept its 5' 4 1/2" to the end of the electric era.
And the local streetcars in Denver were also narrow-gauge, possibly a holdover from cable-car days, as well as horsecars.
Denver had a 3' 6" interurban line to Golden - at least partially to serve a coal mine. There was also a standard gauge line on another route. An interesting footnote is that Denver and Intermountain (the interurban) numbered its standard gauge cars normally, its narrow ones with decimal numbers (.03).
Is Denver a Western City? If it is not Denver, I would suggest Portland, OR.
Of the three western cities that retained their cable cars' narrow gauge into the electric era, only one had a narrow-gauge interurban line. Name the city.
I was considering the T&P to be a different railroad (it had its own listing in the Guide). The IGN (which was in the MP section of the Guide) took it between Longview and Laredo.
Fast work.
Johnny
The train I come up with is the "City of Mexico" between St. Louis and Mexico City via Laredo. The Mexican portion seems to be entirely NdeM, with the U.S. Portion on various parts of the Missouri Pacific and Texas & Pacific systems. If MP/T&P are counted as one system (Yes if you're MP, no if you're T&P) than I can't find a third sytem in my reference material, though I would suspect cars assigned to the train also ran on the Chicago and Alton from Chicago, or on the PRR from New York). One of the cars came from Memphis on the Sunshine Special connection.
The train ran about 12 hours faster than the daily Sunshine Special, leaving St. Louis at the same time on Sunday, returning on Thursday. It operated between 1937 and 1940, when it was dropped from the timetable. Pullman supplied the equipment except for diners and the "Spanish Observation Lounge", supplied by MP.
We are all probably familiar with the UP's City of ---- trains. There was, in the thirties, another City of --- train, which was all-Pullman and all heavy-weight cars. It ran weekly between A & B, and it traveled over three systems.
Name the train, its terminii, and the roads which carried it.
Way to go! The Twin Star Rocket was also involved after it was extended to Houston. Both carriers assigned some of their earliest streamliners to Texas service to compeat with SP's Sunbeam.
For most of its life the Zephyr Rocket ran with one mostly CB&Q, one mostly CRI&P set, but cars of both carriers were mixed, with engines (originally E5s and E6s, later E7s) running through. The normally assigned Pullmans were rebuilt heavyweights Zephyr Tower and Rocket Tower, both plan 4090C 8 section, 3 DBR, 1 DR cars. In the Pullman breakup, one each assigned to CB&Q and RI. An extra 10 sec 3DBR car was assigned as needed, with ex-Golden State 6 sec, 6 rmt, 6DBR cars used in later years. CRI&P supplied the dining-parlor-observations (432 St. Louis and 433 St. Paul) for both trains.
This sounds like the cooperation between the Rock Island and the Burlington.
The Sam Houston Zephyr and the Texas Rocket ran between Fort Worth and Houston on the RI between Dallas and Teague, and on the BRI between Teague and Houston in 1943.
The Zephyr Rocket ran between Minneapolis and Burlington on the RI, and between Burlington and St. Louis on the Q.
These two systems that competed for travellers on their streamlined trains cooperated in two different locations. In one, trains carrying the trademark names of both systems operated on the same tracks and were carried in both system's timetables, in the other, they ran a joint train serving points served by both systems, but without either one having a direct path between the endpoints. Name the two endpoint pairs and the two systems, and at least one of the train names.
Exactly. I recall seeing a complete list of then operating PRR car types and boh the H&M compatible Newark red cars (MP41) and the Atlantic city Brilliners were listed. Possilby another reader can supply the classification.
The PST double enders used Westinghouse AB control, which was Automatic acceleration Battery (as compared to Line. It may actually have been the ABPC variant, which would interoperate with GE's Pneumatic Cam PC10 controllers, used in other PST cars. Chicago's 4000 series L cars used ABLFM which could operate on battery or line power, had Field control, and could interoperate with GE type M (or PC10). North Shore used the HLF (Hand, Line, Field) Unit Switches, which required the operator to notch up like a K controller. Chicago's St. Louis version (CCRy 7001) had commutator control similar to PCC control with 127 full field steps and 20 weakened field steps. The DC cars were very similar to 7001, with dynamic braking with hydraulic final brakes (prewar PCCs used air for final braking) and magnetic track brakes. CSL (CRy) 4001 had four 300v motored paired together in series, with what sound like a variant of Westinghouse ABF control.
My understanding is that the Atlantic City and Shore company was owned by PRR, and used PRR dulux gold paint for stripes and lettering on its Brilliners. The rest of the car was two shades of green, the lighter green (upper carbody) also used on CSL 7001. It's possible, given the four digit numbers on the cars (6891), that they were carried on PRR's books. Did they have a PRR class code MPxx (where xx is the length)?
You are correct except for one point: The ten 1939 Red Arrow cars were not truly Brilliners. The body design was a double-end version, but trucks and all electricals were identacle to the Red Arrow Master-Unit style cars of 1931. They did not use the rotary acceleration control from both Westinghouse and GE that was typical of both Brilliners and PCC's, but the older automatic acceleration through relay cut-out of resistors pretty much the same as the Hudson and Manhattan "black cars" if 1905, then used on Cambgidge - Dorchester, IRT "Low-V's," BMT steels and so forth thru the IND`R-1-9. Possibly CTA and North Shore? As far as I know, these were the last railcars Brill bult, afterward just trolleybuses and war work. The 1950 Harvard - Massachusetts Station line of the MTA trolleybuses were Brills, also used on Watertown - Central Square Cambridge.
The Capitol Transit 1934 Brill cars could be called pre-Brilliners the way the CT St. Louis cars and the Magic Carpet cars in San F\rancisco could be called pre-PCCs. I do not know if they used the PCC-type and Brilliner acceleration and dynamic braking control system.
There is something else unusual about the Miss America Fleet of Atlantic City Brilliners. It has to do with a Class I and nomenclature. I hope you can figure out what it is. Ask the next quesiton in any case.
As far as I know Baltimore and Philalphia (PTC) each had only one Brilliner each. I got to see both laid up in carhouses, but did not get to ride one.
The Brilliner (J.G. Brill, Philadelphia PA) was used by Capital Transit (10 cars) and Atlantic City (24 cars). A few cars each went to Philadelphia, Baltimore and Cincinnati. Red Arrow Lines got 10 double-ended versions.
Trucks were outside frame but shared the longitudinal motor design of PCC trucks. As far as I know all Brilliners were air-electric like prewar PCCs. The two systems with the largest fleets both had interurbans with strange characteristics - Capital Transit's shared conduit operation with Washington Baltimore and Annapolis interurbans for a matter of a few weeks before the WB&A was abandoned, and Atlantic City shared tracks with the third rail Shore Fast Line (to Ocean City).
Chicago Surface Lines had a 1934 Brill experimental (7001) that had a lot of similarity to the Brilliner, but was never called one. It had different trucks than the "real" Brilliners.
Capital Transit also had 10 St. Louis Car pre-PCC cars similar to the Brilliner.
Some of the Red Arrow cars survived a long way into the SEPTA era (1980s?). Capital Transit's were retired in 1953, Atlantic City's in 1955. One of the Capital Transit cars was preserved, only to be lost to a fire at the NCTM in 2003.
The PCC car in North America had one rival only. What was it? Who and where built it? What features and equipment were identacle to PCCs and what was different? Which systems purchased and operated these cars and how many did each have? Was there a derivitive car that operated for a longer time on one system and what and where was it? What interurban line shared tracks with one streetcar line that operated these cars, and what was unusual about both the streetcar line and the interurban line?
To start the process of replacing its ragged collection of New York Central style cabooses, Rutland got two wide-vision cabooses from International. Listed as built in 1959, they didn't arrive in Rutland until 1961, coming along with a bunch of nearly identical D&H cabooses. The Rutland strike started almost as soon as they were on the property, so they sat until leased by the D&H. On abandonment, they were returned to International, from where they ended up on the Santa Maria Valley in California. One of them is still in existence, in Santa Maria.
The Rutland?
The two wide vision cabooses were apparently delivered just a short time before a strike that ended operations. No photos of them in service have been found, but it's just possible they may have been used.
This railroad started to replace its aged wooden cabooses by buying two brand new wide-vision Internationals. It never got to use them. Name the railroad and (optionally) where the cabooses ended up.
I'll have a new question posted by tonight after I fact-check my memory...
Recall now, the almost black or black cabeese were on my favorite railroad, or one of two, the D&RGW. Is my memory correct?
Guess I should look at pix.
Rob:
Per Gary Nelson (GN-BN-BNSF Conductor & GNRHS member) said that the GN Steel cabooses were built at St. Cloud, MN Car Shops. However, one GN steel caboose was built at Hillyard--I can't come up with that number now. In 1991 the GNRHS published a reference sheet on GN cabooses. The NPRHS also published on steel cabooses.
The NP/SPS steel cabooses were built in two batches in the 1950's. The first fifty had a higher cupola than the balance of them.
Del Grosso's "Cabooses of the Burlington Northern is an excellent reference work. I regret not having a camera to record the many things I saw in 38 years.
Next question to you Rob.
Ed Burns
Dave and Rob:
Mineral red is a dull red. The paint on most BNSF freight equipment is mineral red. I am led to believe that the ATSF used that color along with the NP.
I can try to send you some photos off list.
It's hard to tell from internet photos, but it looks like SP&S had both plywood- and steel-sheathed versions of the standard NP caboose. The bay-window cars seem to have come later.
I took Hillyard (Spokane) at a guess.
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