daveklepper DeLuxe
DeLuxe
Nope, the Milwaukee Road never had a train called the DeLuxe. Good guess, though.
Pioneer
daveklepper Pioneer
Nope, only the Milwaukee Road used the word Pioneer of the group of railroads were considering.
City of............or City
I'm going to try "Limited"
daveklepper City of............or City
Nice try but the Santa Fe never had any City trains....
FlyingCrow I'm going to try "Limited"
Nope - the name I'm looking for was used at one time or another only on the four railroads mentioned (UP, Santa Fe, Milwaukee Road, NYC&HR). I'm going to add the CB&Q to this list as well.
Of the five railroads mentioned, this name was most associated with the UP.
City........, well the SF did have the San Diegans, which almost qualifyi.
Overland?
Not exactly a top-of-the-line train, but I'll guess Fast Mail.
daveklepper City........, well the SF did have the San Diegans, which almost qualifyi. Overland?
The San Diegan name does not qualify, since the word "City" is not part of the train name.
BUT,
You got the answer with Overland!
UP - Overland, Overland Limited, San Francisco Overland Limited, Overland Flyer, Overland Express
MILW - Overland Limited (This train existed as a Chicago-Omaha run at the same time the CNW operated the Chicago-San Francisco Overland Limited in the years before WW1. At least one Pullman was exchanged between the Milwaukee Road train and the through CNW/UP/SP train.
ATSF - Overland, Overland Express
CBQ - Overland Express
NYC&HR - Overland Mail
Trains using the Overland moniker also operated on the D&RGW, Wabash, Newfoundland Railway and CN.
Daveklepper, the next question is yours!
CSSHEGEWISCH Not exactly a top-of-the-line train, but I'll guess Fast Mail.
Nope, actually daveklepper got the answer and I was typing my response when you submitted your answer.
My questiono: As far as I know, today, Chicago's Northside Elevated, extending from the Loop to Howard Street, Evanston, if it is considered to include the embankment-viaduct portion north of Belmont, is the only elevated railroad/railway operated by a city transit system the connects two different cities or towns, in this case Chicago and Evanston. As far as I know, none of the other Chicago "L" structures ever connected directly with another town or city. although of course the C&AE operated over the Garfield Park el and connected lots of other towns, but at grade level before actually leaving Chicago. There was one other elevated, operated by a transit system whose successor operaton still provides electric railway transit service, that connected two towns/cities. What was its commonly-used name? What were the two towns or cities? What other towns were served by equipment operating on the elevated, but at grade level? With what other electric railway operation(s) did the elevated connect?
Philadelphia Rapid Transit connected Philadelphia and Upper Darby, 69th Street Terminal being just outside the city limits. It connected with Philadelphia & Western at 69th Street.
gosh darn someone beat me to it !!!!!!!!! Rgds IGN
PS Don't forget that at one time Lehigh Valley Transit used P&W to get to 69th st.
I must be missing something here; perhaps I should have spoken up earlier.
Chicago's CTA has numerous rapid-transit lines that cross into other municipalities--suburbs, not distant cities. For example, the busiest line, the Red Line, goes right to the Chicago/Evanston border at the north edge of town. From there one can catch the Purple Line all the way to Wilmette -- and all the stations in Evanston on the way are elevated, above-grade, with ground-level stations below. The very last stop, Wilmette, is at ground level, and for lack of a better term the facility includes a small yards. Just to make things more complex, the Purple Line at rush hour is not the mere shuttle it is most of the time, but a separate routing that contines on south from Evanston into Chicago, running elevated over the Loop, and in fact "looping" back to the north rather than transiting the Loop to some other outlying district. It also makes a couple of intermediate stops in Chicago on the way downtown. ( It used to be that it didn't stop between Howard Street and the Merchandise Mart just north of the Chicago River downtown). This is the service that used to be called the "Evanston Express" before the color-coding system caught on.
The Yellow Line, previously known as the Skokie Swift, is the duckbilled platypus of Chicagoland rapid-transit. I don't think it goes downtown, but they may have changed thatt. It departs from the north end of the Howard Street platform (underneath it is mostly Evanston by then), but then it hi-tails it through the rest of Evanston without stopping, reaches its high point crossing the canal and McCormick road, and then passes a large yard with no stoppping (no station) and terminates on Dempster Street about a mile north of downtown Skokie. Curiously, there is no station for downtown Skokie, although the tracks run just to the east of same. Probably this unusual set of circumstances stems from the fact that it was once one piece of the interurban North Shore line, the Skokie Valley Route.
[[sidebar]: A few more quirks of the Yellow Line (former "Skokie Swift): the line is either elevated or entrenched going through Evanston and on into Skokie, but shortly thereafter it descends to ground level at the Skokie yards -- and, although there are no intermediate stops, not even a service or crew-change stop, it runs at ground level on all of its western half. A number of busy streets cross it and wigwags (and in at least a few instances, crossing gates) are the norm. (As a further side note, the overhead catenary through Skokie was de-electrified several years ago, and the whole route is on third-rail. No longer the fun of seeing an oncoming car encounter the "Pan Up" sign and put its pantograph up, where it switches entry point of current on the fly.) But if you position yourself properly, there are numeous places you an see the Swift car or trainset whoosh by local Skokie Streets in thickly-settled suburbia. The route has its industrial aspect with the yards, but none of the line qualifies as passing though countryside or thinly settle (big-estate) suburbia. That reworked-interurban styleoach is indeed much more typical of SEPTA services than the CTA's. I use routes that cross those tracks fairly regularly, and I have never seen any motorist challenge the crossing gates, thank Heaven. ]]
The Brown Line to Ravenswood doesn't cross over into any other political jurisdictions but it, too, goes to ground level for its westernmost leg. I'm getting to the fact that the O'Hare Blue line has two termini on for its opposite legs to the west and south, and neither is within the City of Chicago. What used to be called the "Douglas" Line and often still is for convenience' sake used to run further west, at grade, in a kind of back-alley operation; even today, it goes to Berwyn. The other branch, the "Congress" line, terminates in Maywood after having run thru Oak Park with numerous stops.
So yes, Virginia, the majority of the CTA's "L" lines do tap into other municipalities at one end. And in most cases that was true before World War One began. If you visit Wilmette on the "L" take a good look at the Frank Lloyd Wright-inspired depot/terminus and you'll know what I mean. It would take a pretty convoluted interpretation of the problem just solved to exclude ALL the examples I've given above. I mean, it would literally require a "Philadelphia Lawyer" hehehe
You confirmed what I said. I am asking about an Elevated Structure, and the only one of the Chicago "L" lines that had structure that extended to another political entity city was the Northside. The others had structures that reached neighborhoods with names, but still within the area subject to Chicago Politics.
But I confess. There were two other el structures that met my definition, not one. One was torn down a few years after WWII with bus replacedment. But now there is a light rail comeback. The other was torn down in sections beginning about 15 years ago and always with some sort of rapid transit, tunel-subway or otherwise, replacement. All cities touched by the two former elevated structure now have electric railway service and always had some type of electric railway service since ealier than 1900. I am not talking about any elevated structure in Illinois. Also, Brooklyn's el doesn't count, by the time it was electrified, Brooklyn was part of New York City and so were the communities it reached.
Some hints: All the communities served by these two elevated structures are at or near the East Coast. One of the elevated structures would have been perfectly happy accomodating Chicago's elevated equipment of all generations except possibly for small changes in power pick-up, and the other structure would have accomodated other Chcago equpment, but not that running on the elevated, and possibly not the latest versions because of clearance problems. Also, for almost all the life of both elevateds, it was possible to go between the two communities by another electric railway service. In one of the two locations this other service is still running on the same tracks under different ownership with much newer equipment. One of the elevateds was run exclusively by equipment that most experts in the industry considered obsolete when built, and which were nearly identacle to equpment that operated in a different city (same operator) until about 1950 when replaced by very modern --- but second-hand cars, which have now also been replaced by up-to-date new equipment, and are now being held for a third operator (part of the fleet) or are being rebuilt or are actually in reliable daily sevice for a fourth operator (part of the fleet). The fourth operator is definitely not an east coast operation. And the only examples of the obsolete-when new equpment that exist are in trolley museums or displays (and possibly in use as cottages or sheds somewhere.) The other elevated, the one that could acommodate Chicago equipment, but never did, has equpment examples in one museum, I think in operating condition but required a major change in power collection to effect this.
Thanks for clearing that up, daveklepper. My horse got to its destination(s), but it was the wrong horse! I apologize for having been such a blockhead.
I think I have drawn a bead on the metro area in question -- and am dying to offer a particle of fact for endorsement or refutal. But maybe we should wait a couple of days and see if someone gets the answer -- not only accurate but complete.
Thou leadeth me to the PATH of the Tubes and the stat of the Island west of New York Harbor. Both the H&M and the Staten Island Rapid transit were (are) noted for their tight radius curves and thus short cars to maneuver.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Statenj Island Rapid Transit's three lines did not have tight radius curves and the surviving line run by the MTA with 75-foot long adapted R-44 subway cars does not have tight radius curves . The line was a steam railroad subsidiary of the B&O when it was electrified to BMT subway standards in the 1920's. In fact, some of the first generation cars helped out with a steel car shortage on BMT lines shortly after WWII allowing the retirement of wood el cars used in shuttle service on the outer ends of the West End and Culver subway lines during rush hours. The H&M does have sharp radius curves. Hint: The H&M was mentioned by me. But neither the H&M nor the SIRT had elevated structures connecting two legally separate communites. The H&M did operate of the PRR-owned elevated in Newark to the first downtown Park Street Station until relocated to the Pennsylvania Station when that was opened around 1936. The elevated structure operated for a short distance on the remaining Totenville line of SIRT is solely within New York City's Staten Island borough.
One of the elevated structures is very obvious. What were the cities that operated elevated structures before WWII? Incidently, there is a modern el structure that doesn't count because it is so new. The Miami rapid transit system is almost entirely on elevated structure and Cocanut Grove is a separate city from Miami! But that doesn't count because it is a new structure. And there is no alternative electcric railway transportaton (or passenger rail of any type now) between those two communities.
someone with betterll knowledge then i should answer. but my 2 cents worth. I vaguely recall that Public Service had an elevated structure (henry should have better knowledge) . Also patco's lindenwold line? I am giving these as wag's for someone else to guess. rgds ign
Hey, you may be right about the Lindenwald line. It does have some el structure, but I never thought about it bgeing continuous through two different city/otwn governments. The line does link several communities, but a majority of it is on fill or in cut or on grade.
You got one right. The Public Serevice of New Jersey operated trolleys up through about 1948 on an elevated structure that began at the Lackawanna Terminal in Hoboken and continue across the Jersy City line. The route that ran the full length was "Jackson" because it did run on Jackson Avenue in Jersey City. At the time. one could go from DL&W Hoboken to Journal Square either via the Jackson streetcar on the elevated (which had low-floor platform stations), of via the H&M, chainging at Pavonia-Erie.
The other elevated structure? Mostly in a large city associated with two of the USA's most important educational and research institutions, having different major fields and definitely cooperating even if the students are very conscious of rivalry. But neither institution is actually in the major citiy. And th el structure served neither institution, but the overall transit system did and still does. The le structure served the major citiy and a neighboring town/city/
Dave, yes. BUt the PS trolley bridge went from Hoboken to Union City through JC. Only road it once as I remember so I had to be five or younger! If the PS and Tubes or H&M (today's PATH) holds up I think we must turn the Philadelphia and think in terms of streetcar lines and the elevated and out towards 169th St., the Media LIne or the NOrristown HIgh Speed line and not PATCO.
EDIT ADD: Oh, wait! Boston! Yeah Boston's Riverside line comes to mind as does I think the line to Cambridge.
Boston - Cambridge on the "T" ? Rgds IGN
I think Henry got it . Boston - Cambridge Harvard & MIT or Boston University. As I was born in 1959 I can only read and listen to stories of times past & try to remember what I heard and read. Of course one does feal a little dated when things you grew up with end up in musuems, San Francisco's LRV's or New York City's R-21 (the worlds fair cars)are dropped in the ocean to make fish habitat. Rgds IGN
I guess its up to me for the next stumper...so...I was reminded of this phenomona the other day as my Ridewithmehenry venture unfolded and we discussed the history and georgraphy of our surroundings. Kind of a riddle for you: this was an operation which was an actual continuous round (four directions in one trip? No, timetabled in only two.) trip really ending exactly where it started' neither freight nor passenger. If no answers come forth quickly, I will give a clue or two.
It is the Boston Elevated, but not the line to Cambridge (you identified the location of the two educational institutions, Harvard and MIT), which is mostly in a subway except for the Longfellow Bridge uniting Cambridge and Boston. The Main Line Elevated, now the Orange LIne, did link Boston to the separate town of Everett, where the Elevated's main shops were located. Strreetcar tracks with passenger service, later just service connections, did parallel or were directly under the elevated structure all the way from the portal between Haymarket and North Station to Everett Station.
IN 1945, the Main Street Bridge over the Charles River, east and slightly north of North Station, was rammed by frieghter. The Boston and Maine Railroad loaned the Elevated a turntable to help support the elevated structure while the bridge was under repair.
henry6 I guess its up to me for the next stumper...so...I was reminded of this phenomona the other day as my Ridewithmehenry venture unfolded and we discussed the history and georgraphy of our surroundings. Kind of a riddle for you: this was an operation which was an actual continuous round (four directions in one trip? No, timetabled in only two.) trip really ending exactly where it started' neither freight nor passenger. If no answers come forth quickly, I will give a clue or two.
Ok...no bites yet....a hint...the Ridewithmehenry trip this past Sat was from Denville, NJ on NJT to Hoboken, PATH to 33rd St. because of Amtrak power problem, then LIRR to Montauk. If more hinting is needed I will keep you posted.
If you do not mind someone else throwing out clues, The route in question does a corkscrew and in more then one dimension.Left and down left and down again. and then down some more. Then up and left again.
Also their web site says they are getting some new cars? Rgds IGN
More on the old Hoboken Elevated as it was known. The elevated itself only ran from Hoboken to Jersey City and there was no elevated structure in Union City. The only route using the full length of the elevated was the Jackson lile which ran into and out of the Journal Square indoor loop and terminated in south Jersey City near the main shop and yard. But there were two routes that used the east-west portion of the elevated from the Lackawanna terminal, inlcuding two intermediate stations, and then ran on a ramp to the surface then on a surface street to Union City. One line, Union City, terminated there with a few blocks of street running in a loop on its own. The other line was Weehawken and ran to the West Shore Terminal, making local stops in Union City. The fourth line that use the elevated and the one abandoned earliest was Oakland, named for Oakland Avenue, located on the north side of the main highway on the NJ side of the Holland Tunnel. I am not sure whether this is in Hoboken or Jersey City, but this line used a third set of ramps somewhat north of those at the south end of the elevated in Jersey City.
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