The "Heart of the South" says Seabord, but let me correct some errors first, as my memory returns. The Alabama and West Point connected with the L&N in Montgomery, not Mobile, and the juncntion with the Seabord line to Talahasse and Jacksonville was in Flomington. I think the Seabord had its own line to Montgomery, AL, and it may have come from Atlanta, or possibliy Athens. Possibly Plains is on that line. Also, I think Waycross was an important jucntion on the ACL, not the Seabord, and the ACL had a passenger service between Waycross and Montgomery, including at one time a through coach off one of the Champions from New York.
The map shows Central of Georgia...but that's too obvious and simple.
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Atlanta - West Point was operated by the railroad of that name. The Atlanta and West Point and the Alabama and West Point jointly operated "The West Point Route" between Atlanta and Mobile, which was used by the real all-Pullman Crescent Limited, on the Southern Atlanta -Washington, PRR, Washington - NY, and L & N Moble - New Orleans. Also the same route used by the coach and Pullman Piedmont LImited. The Southerner streamliner, like today;s Amtrak Crescent. went via Birmingham on the all-Southern route.
If the two states are Georgia and Alabama, then the route must be Waycross - Mobile. But Florida and Alabama would have it Jacksonville - Mobile. And I did ride the Gulf Wind several times, both between Jacksonville and Tallahasee and all the way to and from New Orleans.
The West Point route had some excellent Pacifics, both railroads, looked like copies of the Southern's best but with traditional black and white, no green and gold. And they continued to use steam for some time after the Southern dieselized the Crescent north of Atlanta, until at one point the Southern diesels ran through to Mobile. I don't remember any West Point route passenger diesels. I think the through passenger trains all used Southern or L&N power during the diesel era.
When I rode the Gulf Wind, it was a good train, with an observation lounge open to all passengers (like other Seabord streamliners), a full diner, reclining seat coaches, only occasionally a rebuilt heavyweight, and one or two sleepers, 6 and 10's, if I remember correctly.
Atlanta and West Point
KCSfan daveklepper Didn't Carter use his home town depot as a prop, Plains? The SAL did use the slogan "Through the Heart of the South." I didn't know they ran through Plains, however or what route it might be. The Seabord had a two-state route between Atlanta and Bermingham (GA and LA) and one passenger train was local between the two, rode it, and then there was the Silver Comet, through, Birmingham - NYC. Dave, Right town, right RR, but wrong route, so no cigar. You're warm so try again. Mark
daveklepper Didn't Carter use his home town depot as a prop, Plains? The SAL did use the slogan "Through the Heart of the South." I didn't know they ran through Plains, however or what route it might be. The Seabord had a two-state route between Atlanta and Bermingham (GA and LA) and one passenger train was local between the two, rode it, and then there was the Silver Comet, through, Birmingham - NYC.
Didn't Carter use his home town depot as a prop, Plains? The SAL did use the slogan "Through the Heart of the South." I didn't know they ran through Plains, however or what route it might be. The Seabord had a two-state route between Atlanta and Bermingham (GA and LA) and one passenger train was local between the two, rode it, and then there was the Silver Comet, through, Birmingham - NYC.
Dave,
Right town, right RR, but wrong route, so no cigar. You're warm so try again.
Mark
You've even got the two states, GA and AL right. Just think of two other large cities in these states that the SAL served and you've got the route.
Station http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/7/7/9077.1089379320.jpg
al-in-chgo Uh oh. WAG time again: Raleigh to Mobile? - a.s.
Uh oh. WAG time again: Raleigh to Mobile? - a.s.
Sorry Al but the Seaboard never ran to Mobile. River Jct (Chattahoochee, Fl) where it turned the Gulf Wind over to the L&N for the remainder of its run to New Orleans was the closest it got to Mobile. Another city which was one terminal of the subject route was the next clodsest point to Mobile on the SAL. Also the subject route only ran through two states. Raleigh to Mobile would have taken it through four states, NC, SC, GA and AL.
al-in-chgo KCSfan "Through the Heart of the South" refers not only to the route of the train but was also the long time slogan of the RR that served Carter's home town. Mark SAL? - a.s.
KCSfan "Through the Heart of the South" refers not only to the route of the train but was also the long time slogan of the RR that served Carter's home town. Mark
"Through the Heart of the South" refers not only to the route of the train but was also the long time slogan of the RR that served Carter's home town.
SAL? - a.s.
Right RR Al. You get to light your cigar when you name which of the Seaboard's routes passed through this town.
Sorry Al but no cigar for you yet. This trains route ran through two states but Florida was not one of them.
KCSfan Here's a hint for you. This train ran through the heart of the south. Mark
Here's a hint for you. This train ran through the heart of the south.
Atlanta - Tallahassee? - a.s.
The depot in his hometown was often used by Jimmy Carter as a backdrop in his campaign for the presidency. Up until 1951, when passenger service was discontinued, the train that stopped there ran between what two cities over what railroad? For extra credit, what motive power was used on this run in its latter years of operation?
KCSfan The town would be Mena named for Queen Wilamena of the Netherlands. A few miles up the mountain from the town lies the Queen Wilamena State Park. Gorgeous country and we've stayed at the park lodge there several times. The Talihamena Drive from Mena up the mountain to the park and on to Oklahoma traverses some rugged country. At the AR-OK state line there stands an old survey marker dating back to a time before OK was a state. It reads Arkansas on one side and Indian Territory on the other. I believe the builder who named the town would be Arthur Stillwell who, with the backing of Dutch financial interests, constructed and acquired other railroads to form a goodly portion of what today is the KCS. Mark
The town would be Mena named for Queen Wilamena of the Netherlands. A few miles up the mountain from the town lies the Queen Wilamena State Park. Gorgeous country and we've stayed at the park lodge there several times. The Talihamena Drive from Mena up the mountain to the park and on to Oklahoma traverses some rugged country. At the AR-OK state line there stands an old survey marker dating back to a time before OK was a state. It reads Arkansas on one side and Indian Territory on the other. I believe the builder who named the town would be Arthur Stillwell who, with the backing of Dutch financial interests, constructed and acquired other railroads to form a goodly portion of what today is the KCS.
Johnny
Deggesty Here is a question: what town in Arkansas was named for a queen, and who was the railroad builder who named the town? (The name of the town uses only two syllables of the queen's four syllable name.) Johnny
Here is a question: what town in Arkansas was named for a queen, and who was the railroad builder who named the town? (The name of the town uses only two syllables of the queen's four syllable name.)
Johnny,
KCSfan Johnny, You've got it almost right. Close enough to be declared the winner. In the latter years of passenger service the Southern Belle left Kansas City in the morning and ran through to New Orleans arriving early the next morning. The Flying Crow ran overnight between Kansas City and Shreveport carrying a sleeper, coaches and diner/lounge. South of Shreveport the Crow was split into the two little three cars streamliners. One made a daytime run to New Orleans and the the other to Port Arthur, TX. Going north the coaches from NO nad PA were combined at Shreveport, the diner and the diner and sleeper added to become the Flying Crow for the overnight run back to KC. Mark
You've got it almost right. Close enough to be declared the winner. In the latter years of passenger service the Southern Belle left Kansas City in the morning and ran through to New Orleans arriving early the next morning. The Flying Crow ran overnight between Kansas City and Shreveport carrying a sleeper, coaches and diner/lounge. South of Shreveport the Crow was split into the two little three cars streamliners. One made a daytime run to New Orleans and the the other to Port Arthur, TX. Going north the coaches from NO nad PA were combined at Shreveport, the diner and the diner and sleeper added to become the Flying Crow for the overnight run back to KC.
When the Southern Belle was the only passenger train left on the KCS, the observation combo served as the diner for the full run.
KCSfan Without being too specific I'll just say they ran in the Central Time Zone. The railroad they ran on was passenger friendly. They had eliminated the need for a first class ticket in their sleepers - just a coach ticket and charge for the space occupied was all that was necessary. They also were promoting train travel in paid newspaper ads throughout their service area as late as 1966. Mark
Without being too specific I'll just say they ran in the Central Time Zone. The railroad they ran on was passenger friendly. They had eliminated the need for a first class ticket in their sleepers - just a coach ticket and charge for the space occupied was all that was necessary. They also were promoting train travel in paid newspaper ads throughout their service area as late as 1966.
I've been wondering why this question seems to be such a challenge particularly to some of you who I think of as experts when it comes to passenger trains in the golden age of railroading. It just occurred to me that these questions are supposed to harken back to at least 50 years ago which would be 1959 or prior. The schedule which is the subject of my question may not have been started until sometime in the 1960's which would make the question invalid and might be the reason you are having difficulty answering it. I can only state with certainty that the schedule was in effect in 1965 until the end of passenger service on this particular railroad.
Mark, can you give us a hint as to what area in the country these trains were operated?
Sorry Henry but no cigar. The consists of the Champions were nuch bigger than the three cars of these two streamliners.
Atlantic Coast Line East and West Coast Champions. Jacksonville the split from the north.
In the 1960's a certain railroad ran two identical trains over two different routes which had one common end point, Headed by a single E unit, their three car consists were a baggage/mail/express car, a single coach and a round end coach/cafe/tavern lounge observation car. All cars were streamlined lightweights. At their common end point they were combined and additional cars were added to form a name train that ran on to a third destination. Going in the opposite direction this procedure was reversed to split the name train into the two little streamliners. What was the railroad, the end points of all three trains and the name train involved in this service?
Deggesty Jan 65 Traisn
Jan 65 Traisn
Mark, we will wait for you on this thread.
Ahaa, it's hard to fool us old timers. I imagine most readers don't remember when the Southern used to advertise "Look Ahead, Look South". As soon as I spotted that disguised hint I knew the railroad and the 40 mile distance from Jesup to Brunswick made the rest of the answer easy. But until now I had no idea that through cars continued to run to Brunswick after the KC-Fla Spcl was discontinued into Jacksonville.
Your tale about riding in an unheated coach restroom reminded me of a trip I took on the Georgian in mid-winter 1948 or 49. The weather was almost balmy when I boarded the train in Atlanta but it was absolutely frigid by the time we reached northern Illinois. I had a call of nature that couldn't be denied as the train left Danville on the C&EI so I headed for the men's room which turned out to be unheated. The toilet outlet was frozen in a partially opened position which exposed me to a blast of Icy air as we sped along. I thought I was going to freeze to the seat and was never so cold except one night on bivouac in mid-winter when I was a basic trainee at Ft. Leonard Wood, MO.
So much for the war stories. I'm heading to my daughter's for her 49th birthday and will try to have another question in mind by the time I get back tonight.
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