Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[Great Western]

For interested a link about Juan Ponce de Leon:

http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/juan-ponce-de-leon.htm

 AFAIK,  the Spanish name Leon is, as are many places in Europe, based on the Roman presence and their settlements and foundations which they made when they governed a great part of Europe. 

My town had a Roman fort on the headland where I live but has a Saxon name.

Accordingly Leon comes from  Legio = Legion

 

[wanswheel]

In 1230, Don Pedro Ponce married Dona Aldonza de Leon, daughter of Alfonso IX, the King of Leon.

Leo is a northern constellation. 

New Haven Comet

[henry6]

I believe, Mark (and others not "getting" the reference): LEON...as in Leo in the Astrological Zodiac.  Not a real celestial body as per astronomical reference. 

[KCSfan]

Since Johnny was the fustest with the mostest (14 trains) he is our winner. I know of three other trains that were not mentioned; The Neptune (New Haven) even though it was named for the King of the Seas not the planet, the Comet (New Haven) and the Sunflower (MP). I still don't get the connection of the Ponce de Leon with any celestial body and am waiting for Mike's translation to explain it for my edification.

Mark

[route_rock]

  Ponce de Leon was an explorer. Full name Juan Ponce de Leon.He lead the first exploration of Florida and is the man credited for naming it.

 

   

[KCSfan]

Mike,

What is the English translation of Ponce de Leon? It's far easier to ask you than try to look it up myself. 

Back to trains with chemical elements in their names let me add three more; A double banger, The Iron & Copper Country Express (CNW), North American (CNW/UP) and Silver Streak Zephyr (CB&Q)

Mark

[wanswheel]

Sunshine Special (MP, T&P, NdeM), Lone Star (SLSW), Morning Star (SLSW), North Star (NYC), Ponce de Leon (SR).

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

It was the Sunchaser.

Of course!

Johnny

[KCSfan]

Deggesty

 There was an IC/CG/ACL/FEC winter season train with "Sun" in its name; the full name escapes me at the moment.

Johnny

Johnny,

It was the Sunchaser.

Mark

[aricat]

I've got more Twin Star Rocket - Rock Island ; Western Star - Great Northern, Sunset Limited - SP

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

Quite a few trains had celestial bodies in their names such as the Silver Star, Name as many of them as you can and also the railroads over which each operated.

A few of them:

Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Silver Comet, Sunland, (all PRR/RF&P/SAL)Comet & Yellowstone Comet (CB&Q/NP), Starlight (overnight coach train SF-LA on SP), Cleveland Mercury, Mercury (Chicago-Detroit) (both NYC), Florida Sunbeam (NYC/Sou/SAL), Sunnyland (SLSF/Sou), Star (LV), Meteor (SLSF). There was an IC/CG/ACL/FEC winter season train with "Sun" in its name; the full name escapes me at the moment.

(Edit) The SP also had Sunbeam, which was the evening train between Houston and Dallas.

Johnny

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

I would never have guessed the Argonaut though argon is certainly a chemical element

However, the Argonaut had nothing to do with the element Argon. The men who sailed with Jason on the Argo when he searched for the Golden Fleece were called Argonauts (Argo sailors). You all remember your Greek mythology, don't you?

Incidentally, the Iron City Express did not go to Iron City, Ala. (on the Southern), or Iron City, Ga. (on the ACL).

Johnny

[KCSfan]

Mike, I thought there was a train with Iron in its name but I couldn't put my finger on it. I would never have guessed the Argonaut though argon is certainly a chemical element. On to the next question which I don't think has been asked before, but if it has I apologize for repeating it

Quite a few trains had celestial bodies in their names such as the Silver Star, Name as many of them as you can and also the railroads over which each operated.

Mark

[wanswheel]

Mark, also there's Iron City Express (PRR) and Argonaut (SP).  Your turn.

[daveklepper]

Great reply!   So where is the next question?

[KCSfan]

wanswheel

Name 5 trains with a chemical element in the train name. For example, the Californium Zephyr.

Mike

Gold - Gold Coast (CNW/UP), Golden State Ltd (RI/SP), & Golden Triangle (PRR)

Copper - Copper Country Ltd (Milw/DSS&A)

Mercury - Chicago Mercury & Cincinnati Mercury (NYC)

Americium - Pan American (L&N),  American Royal Zephyr (CB&Q) & The American (PRR)

Silver - Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Silver Comet (SAL)

Nickle - Nickle Plate Ltd (NKP)

Mark

 

 

[wanswheel]

Name 5 trains with a chemical element in the train name. For example, the Californium Zephyr.

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Johnny, these sleeping cars are mentioned in PRR Chronology, except the last is from a B&O ad.

PRR-MP ~ New York to Dallas and Fort Worth

PRR-MP ~ New York to Houston and Galveston

PRR-MP ~ New York to El Paso

PRR-MP ~ New York to San Antonio (and Mexico City)

PRR-MP ~ Washington to Dallas and Fort Worth

PRR-MP ~ Washington to Houston and Galveston

PRR-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to San Antonio

PRR-Frisco ~ New York to Tulsa

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2475/T2475-med.jpeg

NYC-MP ~ New York to Dallas and Fort Worth

NYC-MP ~ New York to Houston

NYC-MP - New York to San Antonio (and Mexico City)

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to Dallas

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to Fort Worth

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to San Antonio

NYC-Frisco ~ New York to Oklahoma City

C&O-NYC-MP ~ Washington to San Antonio

B&O-MP ~ Washington to Fort Worth and Houston

B&O-Frisco-MKT ~ Washington to Dallas, Fort Worth and San Antonio

B&O-Frisco ~ Jersey City and Washington to Oklahoma City

B&O-Frisco ~ Baltimore to Tulsa and Oklahoma City

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2419/T2419-med.jpeg

Very good, Mike, but--some of these were not in service in April 1948, and you still missed one Texas destination. I am sure that when you say, "MP," you include the T&P, which also handled the cars.

There was no car PRR/MP/T&P to Galveston.

There was no car to El Paso.

There was no car NYC/MP/T&P to San Antonio (the NYC car to Mexico City is not shown in the MP or T&P representation, even though both NYC and NdM showed it).

There was no NYC/SLSF/MKT car to just Ft. Worth, it ran to Waco (the missing destination; check your NYC map of Southwestern through cars).

The B&O carried cars west from Washington; none originated east of Washington.

The C&O, N&W, and CC&O were the Pocahontas Region roads (I had thought that the Virginian would be in that region, but it was not mentioned in the article concerning the region I found). I do not know if the CC&O's passenger tariff was akin to the Eastern or Southeastern tariffs, but the N&W and C&O both had higher tariffs than the SE roads did.

I find the variety of interline sleepers of some sixty years ago, interesting, I hope others who have followed this thread also find them interesting. As we see, from the total number of lines and what were active at a certain date, there were variations--apparently as actual traffic changed.

Altogether, you have come out on top, so you have the next question.

Johnny

[wanswheel]

Johnny, these sleeping cars are mentioned in PRR Chronology, except the last is from a B&O ad.

PRR-MP ~ New York to Dallas and Fort Worth

PRR-MP ~ New York to Houston and Galveston

PRR-MP ~ New York to El Paso

PRR-MP ~ New York to San Antonio (and Mexico City)

PRR-MP ~ Washington to Dallas and Fort Worth

PRR-MP ~ Washington to Houston and Galveston

PRR-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to San Antonio

PRR-Frisco ~ New York to Tulsa

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2475/T2475-med.jpeg

NYC-MP ~ New York to Dallas and Fort Worth

NYC-MP ~ New York to Houston

NYC-MP - New York to San Antonio (and Mexico City)

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to Dallas

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to Fort Worth

NYC-Frisco-MKT ~ New York to San Antonio

NYC-Frisco ~ New York to Oklahoma City

C&O-NYC-MP ~ Washington to San Antonio

B&O-MP ~ Washington to Fort Worth and Houston

B&O-Frisco-MKT ~ Washington to Dallas, Fort Worth and San Antonio

B&O-Frisco ~ Jersey City and Washington to Oklahoma City

B&O-Frisco ~ Baltimore to Tulsa and Oklahoma City

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2419/T2419-med.jpeg

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Come to think of it, I believe the PRR Penn Texas at one time did have a through car NY to Mexico City.   I think it went on  from St. Louis on the MP and TP.   Then, of course, the NdeM.   I am not certain, but I think the Loredo crossing was used.

Right on, Dave. There were two crossings in Texas for through car service into Mexico--El Paso (cars from the west) and Laredo (cars from the east).

Johnny

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Johnny

The Eastern RRs were the NYC, PRR and B&O The Western RRs that took part in the through train services wer MP/T&P, and SLSF/MKT. Not positive but think Santa Fe operated a through car at one time from the NYC in Chicago to Oklahoma City or Tulsa. It's all guesswork have not had time to look anything up yet.

Al - in - Stockton

You're looking good, Al, but you missed one road on the eastern end. It and two other roads were in the __________ Region, and its passenger fare structure was similar to that of the Big Three Eastern roads.

As to NYC/SFe service to Oklahoma, it may have been at one time (my Guide/timetable collection in the last forties is anything but extensive), but it did not exist in April, a948.

Johnny

[daveklepper]

Come to think of it, I believe the PRR Penn Texas at one time did have a through car NY to Mexico City.   I think it went on  from St. Louis on the MP and TP.   Then, of course, the NdeM.   I am not certain, but I think the Loredo crossing was used.

[passengerfan]

Johnny

The Eastern RRs were the NYC, PRR and B&O The Western RRs that took part in the through train services wer MP/T&P, and SLSF/MKT. Not positive but think Santa Fe operated a through car at one time from the NYC in Chicago to Oklahoma City or Tulsa. It's all guesswork have not had time to look anything up yet.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

Deggesty

passengerfan

The original Sunsest Ltd ran from New Orleans to San Francisco via Los Angeles and that route was 2466 and that was the longest SP route.

Until the Santa Fe inaugurated the San Francisco Chief, this was the longest single-road train in the USA. I do not remember what year the train was cut back to LA.

This reminded me of Dave Morgan's account of the trip he and his wife took on the LA-NY sleeper soon after it was inaugurated just before Amtrak. They began their journey in San Francisco--with seats in a bedroom in the car that went on to New York. They changed rooms in LA. They did not spend the night in New Orleans in the car, but went to a hotel (they could wash up better in the hotel than they could in the sleeper).

Johnny

The Sunset Limited was still running as a through train from San Francisco to New Orleans in October of 1939. It also had SF-LA sleepers (including at least one with private sections), and a SF-Santa Barbara sleeper. It seems to have been all first class west of LA, just as the Lark (which also had sleepers with private sections) was. It did have coaches east of LA.

Johnny

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

Mexico City?

Mike, you have the far south city, and the two roads that carried cars for it out of the NE. Now, name the other roads that carried these cars. Also, you may be able to get the other lines and the missing destination from one of the ads. Hurry, before Al wraps one of his income tax clients up.

Somebody at the New York Central was confused as to the relative positions of New York, Missouri, and Oklahoma.

Johnny

 

[wanswheel]

Mexico City?

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T30/T3043/T3043-med.jpeg

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/images/adaccess/T/T24/T2476/T2476-med.jpeg

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

The original Sunsest Ltd ran from New Orleans to San Francisco via Los Angeles and that route was 2466 and that was the longest SP route.

Until the Santa Fe inaugurated the San Francisco Chief, this was the longest single-road train in the USA. I do not remember what year the train was cut back to LA.

This reminded me of Dave Morgan's account of the trip he and his wife took on the LA-NY sleeper soon after it was inaugurated just before Amtrak. They began their journey in San Francisco--with seats in a bedroom in the car that went on to New York. They changed rooms in LA. They did not spend the night in New Orleans in the car, but went to a hotel (they could wash up better in the hotel than they could in the sleeper).

Johnny

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

The two NE cities would be New York and Washington the eight SW Cities were Houston, Galveston, San Antonio, Dallas, El Paso, Ft. Worth, Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

Al, you are right on the NE cities, but you named one Texas city that was not in the service in April, 1948, and you omitted one (this one surprised me somewhat, but was there). Also, what is the ninth city that is south of our Southwest?

Johnny

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

The route of the Golden State Ltd was 2324 miles which made it more than 200 miles less than that of the SF Chief.

Mark

The original Sunsest Ltd ran from New Orleans to San Francisco via Los Angeles and that route was 2466 and that was the longest SP route.

Al - in - Stockton

[KCSfan]

The route of the Golden State Ltd was 2324 miles which made it more than 200 miles less than that of the SF Chief.

Mark