Excerpt from Central Headlight, April 1946.
Music Hourly in World's Biggest Car Office, Buffalo
Recorded music, ranging in variety from classical to the latest popular melodies, is now played as a relaxing background to the concentrated work of tabulation performed by the Car Service Department, located in the Central Terminal Building, Buffalo, N. Y. Installation of the system, known as Music by Muzak, was made at the beginning of the year and immediately met with almost unanimous approval by the 340 employes, as indicated in a survey taken soon afterward. The programs are scientifically arranged, playing approximately 24 minutes of every hour throughout the day. The New York Central System has the largest Car Record Office in the
world at Buffalo, under the supervision of M. R. Clinton, Superintendent of Car Service, and Assistant Superintendent H. M. Tirmenstein. In this office are maintained the records of all freight and passenger cars owned by the New York Central System, bearing reporting marks N.Y.C., _____, _____, _____, _____, _____, _____ and _____. Records are kept of these cars while on the New York Central System as well as when moving on other roads throughout the United States, Canada and Mexico. Also, records are maintained of all freight and passenger, including Pullman, cars owned by all other railroads and private line companies while moving over the New York Central System. These records are obtained from reports furnished by freight and passenger train conductors and by agents at interchange points. In addition to maintaining car records, this office compiles a voluminous amount of statistics such as train miles, car miles, train hours, gross and net ton miles; tracing, reconsigning and diversion of cars; and such other miscellaneous work as develops. It was because of the exacting nature of this work, interesting yet monotonous, at times, that the installation of the music was approved for the welfare of the employees. Its sole purpose is to combat monotony and fatigue, give a lift and produce a harmonious atmosphere during the business day.
What were the other 7 reporting marks?
Mike
You have the answer, of course!
Look forward to your question.
The sign "Nine Minutes to Park Street" is posted at the ramp to the subway at St. Mary's Street, and the end of the Beacon Street line, Green Line "C," is at "The Reservoir" and Cleveland Circle, with the Resrvoir carhouse. "A: is the abandoned Watertown, "B" Commonwealth, connected on Chestnut Hill Avenue service tracks to the carhouse, "D" is the old B&A Highland Branch to Riverside with a Cleveland Circle Riverside stop near the end of the Beacon Street Line and the Reservoir Car House and shop. "H" is the Huntington Avenue line. The original portion of the Green Line Subway, including the Park Street and Boylston Street stations, is landmarked. It was the first electric railway subway in North America, although the present "Park Avenue Vehicular Tunnel" was an open cut with bridge over a steam railroad and horsecar operation, then just horsecars, and electrified with conduit for the 4th & Madison line around 1901. It had two stations.
I should have remembered that the Beacon Street line was originally planned as an electric line. But horsecars were first used, and the original route that first opened with electricity was from Alston, along the existing horsecar line on Harvard Street to Brookline Center, then on Beacon Street and as described in the article. The conduit portion, which started at Copley Square, was not complete for the first electric operation, and horsepower was still used downtown. The conduit operation did not fair well in Boston, and its construction was lighter and less substantial than what was used in New York and Washington somewhat later. It lasted about six months, and then Boston relented and allowed wire downtown. About the same time, the extension of track and wire together from Brookline Center to the Reservoir opened. I believe a car from Alston was also the first to enter the new Tremone Street subway when in opened in 1898.
Johnny, Ohm my, I can't even remember what was "resistance times the resistance distance." --Mike
H. M. Whitney on Electrical Traction
The Street Railway Journal, Volume 4 (1888)
When the West End Company, of Boston, was organized, its primary object was the transformation of Beacon street into a wide boulevard extending some three or four miles into the suburbs to Brookline. Through the centre of this great boulevard was to run a railway, which should furnish abundant facilities for rapid transit to the suburbs. The company is now ready to build this line and, after thorough examination of various cable systems and experiments with storage battery cars, has concluded that the overhead conductor system of direct supply is the most suitable for the purpose. In his argument on the petition of the West End Company for the privilege of using an overhead system, at a hearing before the selectmen of Brookline, on July 18, President Henry M. Whitney gave his reasons for advocating this system. He recounted the experiments and investigations carried on by engineers of the company to determine the feasibility of the cable and storage battery systems. Of the various direct systems he was very skeptical, but his curiosity was aroused and his mind favorably disposed by an examination of the Brooklyn & Jamaica Electric Road in Brooklyn, N. Y. Then, to use Mr. Whitney's own words: "I came home (we were then, as I say, in the midst of our cable plans) and I said to our Board of Directors that I felt that before doing anything further in the direction of cable lines we ought to see the most recent electric railroads, viz., that at Richmond and the one at Allegheny City. Shortly after, accompanied by our counsel, Henry W. Hyde, Esq., and two other well-known gentlemen of Boston, whose judgment is equal to that of any other citizen of Boston or Brookline, we started for Richmond. What we found there was perfectly surprising and amazing to all of us.
THE RICHMOND ELECTRIC ROAD.
There, in the city of Richmond, a city of 90,000 inhabitants, was a road twelve miles long, over grades and around curves the like of which does not exist in the whole system of 250 miles of the West End Street Railway Company. It is operated by a system of overhead wires which is positively unobjectionable; the cars ascend grades of nine per cent, at the rate of six miles an hour, and are under the most perfect control, carrying the people with the utmost dispatch and satisfaction. But this result, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, you will understand, was not achieved at once. It was the outcome of one of the hardest contests for victory that was ever fought in the industrial field.
Excepting for the indefatigable energy, genius and mechanical skill of Mr. Sprague, and the generous support of Mr. Burt, the Superintendent of the company, that experiment would have been a disastrous failure, instead of a most complete success. Mr. Burt told me that for the purpose of showing him whether or not there was power to be had, Mr. Sprague undertook to force a car around a very sharp curve on a grade of about six per cent, and a curve of very small radius. He said that not only did he force it up that grade, but he forced it across the track and over the sidewalk and into a building.
A SUCCESS IN EVERY RESPECT.
It is a success in all respects. I do not undertake to say that there is no further development to be expected in the electric motor. I am perfectly well aware that there is. But that road is running to-day; it is over twelve miles long; and it is carrying the people of Richmond as they never have been carried before, and with entire satisfaction to everybody. So much so, indeed, that the other street railway line, a line of mule cars, eight-feet passenger mule cars, running through the Main street of Richmond, a street which bears the same relation to Richmond that Washington street and Tremont street bear to the city of Boston, and Main street in Cambridge bears to that city- this line has quite recently come under the control of the company operating the Electric Road. Shortly after it made application to the city of Richmond for leave to introduce the electric system there, and it was granted almost unanimously, and before the first of November it is believed that from 75 to 100 cars will be traveling all through the city of Richmond.
THE ALLEGHENY CITY ROAD.
From Richmond we crossed the Allegheny Mountains and visited Allegheny City, a place of 90,000 inhabitants, which lies just across the river from Pittsburgh, bearing the same relation to the city of Pittsburgh that Cambridge bears to Boston, or as Charlestown before annexation bore to Boston. We found a road running there, over worse grades even than the grades in the city of Richmond. I know of nothing in the town of Brookline, or in the city of Boston, to compare with them. There is one twelve per cent, grade, and in a distance of 4,900 feet there is a rise of more than 300 feet, or an average grade for the whole distance of more than six per cent.
Now, the great importance of that road in Allegheny City to us was this: That for the first mile over that road the electricity was conveyed in a conduit. The road was put in and was being operated at that time by the Bentley & Knight Electric Company, of New York. The conduit there is of wood, eight or nine inches deep, but it answers the purpose perfectly, and so well satisfied are the people there with this road that on the 5th of June it was accepted by the company, and they are now preparing to extend it two miles further.
I think the officers of the West End Street Railway Company may be pardoned for not having given this matter of these electric roads greater attention, in view of the fact that it was not until the 15th of May that the Richmond Road was considered to be in a state of perfection which would warrant its acceptance, and that the Allegheny City Road was not accepted until the 5th of June. The Allegheny City Road was started on the 2nd of February with this condition: that they should be able to take four cars at a time up those enormous grades. They had just commenced to operate the road, when their car house was burned and two of the cars were destroyed. That put off the time when they could fulfill the condition of the contract, and at the date of my visit there, which was the 4th of June, the road was still in the hands of the builders, the Bentley & Knight Company; but the President, Mr. Sheafe, assured me that the next day he should take the road and pay for it.
UMLIMITED POWER, EXCELLENT TRACTION.
Of course we were all greatly impressed with what we had seen. We saw there the two things that are the essential pre-requisites to the successful operation of an electric road. We saw that the amount of power was practically unlimited, and that there was excellent traction. I had heard street railway men say that it was impossible to get traction on street rails, but there were cars moving straight up the hills without the slightest hesitation, going over grades such, as I say, do not exist in our whole system, and at a speed as fast as horses travel. We were there, too, on a rainy day, when the conditions were most unfavorable for the operation of the road.
Now, I know perfectly well that in the future the electric motor will be as different from the electric motor of today as the locomotive of fifty years ago was different from the locomotive of to-day. I am perfectly well aware that the spinning loom of to-day differs from the loom of fifty years ago, as much as the railroad system of to-day differs from that of fifty years ago. But, as fifty years ago the introduction of the locomotive marked a new departure in transportation far in advance of the old, lumbering stage coach which was then in use, so I believe that the electric motor at this day has reached that stage of development which makes it a perfectly practicable working machine, superior in all respects to horses for quick transportation.
ADVANTAGES OVER THE CABLE.
The advantage of this system over the cable system, if it be practicable (and I believe that these two roads at Richmond and Allegheny City are a demonstration that it is practicable), is this-that with the conduit through the crowded parts of the city, and the overhead on suburban lines, it can all be one system, and the speed over the whole line may be as rapid as the condition of the streets will permit. In narrow and crowded streets the cars must run slowly, but having the power they can take advantage of any opening, and in this way make the best possible time.
Now, this system of overhead wires does not seem to be objectionable. It consists of one one-fifth of an inch wire over each track. So far as Beacon street is concerned our plan is this: If we can carry a wire on each side of our location, wo should grass over our roadway there, which would give a strip of grass thirty feet wide the whole length of the avenue, to St. Mary's street. I know of nothing that would add so much to the beauty of the avenue as to do just that simple thing. If any man in Brookline will go to Richmond or to Allegheny City and see the operation of the road there I know he will come back and say: 'Put it in by all means.'"
Mike, that is really interesting. I found the description of the production and use of electricity especially interesting, since nowadays we use some different expressions--we use ammeters and not ampere meters, express capacity in kilowatts and not watts (what would the people of 123 years ago think of how much electricity we use now?), and seldom do we think of voltage as a measure of pressure (when I became interested in electricity and electronics back in grammar school, I never saw anything about volts being a measure of pressure; I do not recall if it was in high school physics or college physics that this was impressed upon me).
Johnny
THE SPRAGUE ELECTRIC ROAD AT BOSTON
Science, Volume XII, No. 308, December 28, 1888
by American Association for the Advancement of Science)
We take pleasure in presenting our readers in this issue of our paper with a general view of the new electric street-railway between Boston and Brookline, installed by the Sprague Electric Railway and Motor Company of New York. There have been several trial trips made over this railway already, to test the apparatus, which has been found to be perfect, and the road will be put into commercial operation in a few days.
The West End Street Railway of Boston, of which this road is a part, is the largest street-railway in the world. It extends over 212 miles of track, using 1,700 cars and more than 9,000 horses. The president of the West End Street Railway Company, Mr. Henry M. Whitney of Boston, is universally recognized as being one of the most enterprising and successful street-railway men in the country, and, aided by an efficient corps of assistants, has succeeded in giving Boston since his administration the most efficient street-railway service which ever existed in that city.
Before deciding upon any electric system to be adopted upon the West End Road, President Whitney, accompanied by members of the board of directors and managers, visited all the principal electric railways in the country operated upon the various systems, including visits upon three different occasions to Richmond, Va., to inspect the famous electric road in operation there upon the Sprague system. After a most careful examination of all these different roads, the contract for equipping the West End Road was awarded by the board of directors to the Sprague Electric Railway and Motor Company of New York.
This system of electric railway called for in this contract is wide and comprehensive. The main line from Boston westward, beginning at Park Square, will run down Boylston Street bridge, and then down Chester Park to Beacon Street. It will then proceed over the Beacon Street extension to the Chestnut Hill Reservoir, and to Allston, and Oak Square, Brighton. From the East Park gate, over the new boulevard to the Chestnut Hill Reservoir and Brighton, the Sprague overhead system will be adopted; in the more crowded streets of the city the Bentley-Knight conduit will be used ; and the Sprague cars will run over the whole system.
The power-station from which the electric current is distributed to the line is situated on Braintree Street, Allston, near the Boston and Albany Railroad, and also at the edge of the water, thus giving both water and rail facilities for fuel. This building, which is the most perfect electric plant of its kind in the country, is situated very nearly equidistant from the extremities, and is therefore literally a central station. The station, with the adjoining car-house, is of brick, and completely fire-proof.
In its construction it was the aim of the West End Company to get the best in every detail. The chimney-stack is 100 feet high. The boiler-house, which is both convenient and commodious, is at present equipped with three horizontal tubular boilers, furnished by the Jarvis Engineering Company. The engine-room contains two high-speed automatic cut-off engines of the Armington & Sims pattern, of 200 horse-power each. Each drives two powerful dynamos of 80,000 watts each, and wound for a maximum pressure of 500 volts. These dynamos are of the highest efficiency and simplest construction, and, if need be, can be placed under the charge of the steam-engineer. The dynamos feed into copper bus wires, supported on the walls by porcelain insulators.
Each machine has its independent ampere meter, and in addition there is a general ampere meter at the end of the positive bus bar. From this bar the current passes to special snap-switches, each switch being connected through a three-plug safety-switch back to one of the feeders supplying current to the main line-wire. These feeder-wires tap into the line-wire at different points on the line of road, thus maintaining the pressure approximately equal all along the line. At the ends of the feeders in the central station, pressure indicators are attached, which indicate the voltage at the junctions of the feeders with the main current-wire.
The engine-room is brilliantly lighted by handsome hanging electroliers, each of which has five incandescent lamps. A switchboard at one end of the room furnishes an independent control for each group of lamps. All the surroundings of the machines are kept in the neatest condition.
Adjoining the power-house, but separated by thick brick walls, is a commodious house for accommodation of cars, 107 feet long by 80 feet deep, designed to hold 24 cars.
The overhead system, which is built under the Sprague patents, is of the finest description, and includes iron poles set in concrete throughout the entire length of the road. These poles are of a very neat and tasteful pattern, and support the span-wires which carry the trolley-wire at a height of 18 feet over the centre of the track. This overhead wire, which is used for a working conductor. is made of silicon bronze, of the small Sprague type, only three-sixteenths of an inch in diameter. This is the only wire suspended over the middle of the track, and its lightness and high tensile strength allow the overhead supporting structure to be of the lightest description possible. The poles are 125 feet apart.
The return circuit is through the rail, and thence by both metallic and ground circuits to the station. Each section of rail is joined to copper ground wires throughout the length of the road underneath the string-pieces. At intervals of 500 feet this ground wire is connected to an earth plate, and at seven points widely distributed. The ground wire is connected to the station, and there is also a main ground connection made there through a large sinkplate.
In the overhead system a new method of switching has been adopted, which is at once ingenious and simple. Five or six feet inside the turnouts a small switch with flaring rider is interpolated into the main and branch wires, and a spring tongue upon this directs the path of the trolley with absolute certainty and ease. By this means, switching is made very easy, and all danger of the trolley leaving the wire is obviated.
The cars can be run at widely different speeds, varying from the slowest crawl to twelve or more miles per hour. They can be started and stopped without the use of brakes in the space of three or four inches, and, when making the normal running speed, can, in an emergency, be stopped and reversed without brakes within less than a quarter of a car length. This is especially advantageous in crowded thoroughfares, and shows the superiority of the electrical car over the horse or cable cars. The control over the car seems marvellous, for one sees little or nothing save an almost imperceptible movement of the hand of the motor-man ; and the starting, although prompt, is very gradual and without shock or jar. The ordinary driver can operate one of these cars without the slightest trouble, after a very brief instruction. The saving on the operating cost of the Sprague system, owing to the superior quality of the apparatus, over an ordinary horse-car line, constitutes a no inconsiderable item. It has been found that the average cost of motive power per car a day throughout the United States - that is, for from ten to eleven hours, and trips aggregating from forty-five to fifty miles - is about four dollars, and this counts only those horses on actual duty on the road. The cost of motive power per day per car for equal mileage in Richmond is less than two dollars on the heaviest sort of grade-work, and at Boston it is estimated that even this low cost of operation will be reduced. For winter use upon this road the Sprague Company is equipping three electric 'working-cars,' furnished with snow-ploughs, brushes, ice-cutter, and salt-distributer, and each propelled by two powerful 30-horsepower motors. In front of the car is a revolving wheel which breaks up the snow-crust completely, and behind are revolving brushes which sweep the tracks clean. It is estimated that this 'working-car ' will clear a street-railway track after a heavy storm more quickly than the ordinary snow-plough drawn by 12 horses.
The system of wiring which the West End management has adopted for the crowded city streets is the Bentley-Knight conduit, now in use in Allegheny City, Penn. [Pittsburgh]. Here the conduit is laid midway between the tracks, and is strongly bolted to the stringers and sleepers. Its cross-section is about a foot square, and its upper part has a slot similar to that used in cable-railways; its width, however, being only five-eighths of an inch, giving an opening so small that carriage-wheels will not catch in it. Besides this, it is so bevelled that horseshoe calks will not be held in it. Copper bars an inch and a quarter thick, one on each side of the slot, firmly insulated beneath it, carry the current, -one from the dynamo, and the other returning from the motors. The current is taken from the conductors to the motors by ' ploughs,' as they are called, two to each car. These ploughs are thin iron plates about ten inches square, hung from a framework over the middle of the track, and projecting into the slot. The motors are connected by controlling switches, and the car is operated substantially as is the overhead system. The ploughs are so arranged that they can be lifted out of the slot when any obstruction is reached. The current is taken up and returned by spring-plates, which slide along the copper conductors at the bottom of the plough.
In switching, two ordinary tongue-switches are used, - one in the conduit, and one on the rail. Brushes attached to the snowploughs and cars easily keep the conduit and tracks clear, even in the severest snow-storm or in case of slushy and muddy weather.
The change from the overhead system to the conduit is made while the car is in motion, and without the slightest delay in travel or inconvenience to passengers; so that the Sprague cars run over the entire distance.
The kind of truck used upon this road is the latest Sprague improved truck, which has been fully described in these columns. The equipment of this truck includes the new Sprague 'Boston' motor, which will be used, for the first time in commercial work, upon this road.
What current light rail - streetcar system has three lines with direct (one of them almost direct) to the carhouse and shop that has a name associate with a body of water? The oldest of the three lines is the one in question and the car house is at the end of that line from downtown.
This should be a snap. And a sign with the time of travel to a destination with an nearby sign with a popular saint?
I cannot imagine not getting an answer now.
Look. Sprague did Richmond in 1887. This doesn't operate any more. A head of a an eastern, not western, transit system running horsecars visited Richmond that very year and immediately hired Sprague to electrify the system. Part of this line still operates as a downtown to suburb light rail line line. Think about what system could be electrified right after Sprague and that meets the other requirements stated.
The outer end of the line terminal was what was associated with a body of water and the carhouse there still has the name. It has become the main maintenance center for the transit system's major multi-route network and is right adjacent to a second much more recent route and has direct track connections to a third route that is almost as old, in part, as the route under question.
Again, entrance to the landmarked facility, first of its kind in the USA, occured only 11 years after electrification. The facility has been vastly expanded, and only the original part is landmarked.
I can think of one system which seems to match most of your hints, out in the western US. However, I believe that they currently only use one model of LRV, which is not exclusively low-floor (but the stairs can adjust to street-level operation), but otherwise has Saint, body of water, color scheme changes, right time-frame, etc.
Good one, Dave!
For many years streetcars through the PCC era had a traditional type of paint job, but the first group of 3-truck articulated LRV's now retired, brought a radical change which had continued to be used with the two types operating. But the traditional scheme CAN be enjoyed elsewhere on a light rail line operation in the overal transit system.
More hints, In addition to a Saint and a large sign with time informaton, at one time or another the cars carried a sign associated with a body of water. May be they still do, but the location could also be referred to by a specific street layout.
Current operation is by three-truck articulated cars, two manufactures, but one of them low-floor. And these are the second and third groups of LRV'as on line, replacing the first group which replaced PCC's which replace equipment that absolutely required a conductor.
Need more hints?
Hints: The specific trackage should be declaired a national monument, but is not as yet. Yet the downtown operation of the current route does use a facility declaired a national monument and opened about 10 years after the electrification of the specific trackage. If one rides the line today one sees a sign refering to a specific amount of time to a specific destination, and a the same location, a very well-known Saint.
The PRR Media line was electrified around 1920. PRR steam before that. The Red Arrow Media Line about 1907. I am not sure if Media - Red Arrow ever had horsecars. I think is was built as a suburban trolley line. I am referring to somthing far earlier, and it is a streetcar line, not a suburban railroad line, and always has been, except that today it is referred to as "Light Rail." The tracks' right of way may never have been used by Steam Dummies, but they certainly were use by horsecars.
The Medea Line in Philadlephia operated today by SEPTA?
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The St. Charles Streetcar line in New Orleans is the oldest continuously operated streetcar line in Norht America, continuously operated except for outages because of natural calamaties, etc. But that is based on its origination as a steam dummy line and then a horsecar line before electrification.
Richmond, VA, 1887, had the first horsecar line converted to trolley wire electrification with the technology that continues to be used today with onlyi minor modifications. But Rihcmnond streetcar service, excellent thought it truly was, ended shortly after WWII. Which line followed shortly after the Richmond electrification that is still a streetcar trolley line or light rail line today? The oldest one still operating? And promises to continue operating for many, many years to come? One hint: Only part of the original line is still in service on the same street on the same location. And of course the equipment is vastly different. Another: Frank Julian Sprague was also inolved in this electrification.
We have a winner! Daveklepper has the honor of the next question.
I gave the answer away earlier, when I noted that the most modern of the Waugekan local cars, the double-truck lightweights, were moved from MILWAUKEE (where they were replaced by single-truck Birneys from Waukegan) to help with the terrific increase in local traffic because of activities at Great Lakes Navel Base. There were several things unique about the North Shore's Milwaukee local service. The first was that transfers were issued only to and from one of The Milwaukee Electric's city-wide streetcar and bus routes, the North Avenue line, I think route 10. Transferring to any of the TM's routes required a second fare. Second, part of the tracks of the local line, north of where the interurbans turned east into the North Shore's MIlwaukee terminal and yard, were also use by the West Allis route, forget the number, of TM. They continued to use this North Shore trackage even after the North Shore stopped using it. Finally, south of the city, onto the private right of way, the local North Shore's streetcars had to obey regular railroad signals and wait for the proper signal before using the reversing crossover at the southern end of the line. And I believe they carried tale end marker lights, which had to be moved or switched electrically when changing ends.
One of the previous posts helped suggest this question. North Shore operated local streetcars in the Waukegan-North Chicago area. In which other city did North Shore operate local streetcars, and what was an unusual feature of its operation?
css......: Don't forget to ask the next question!
Pardon my Dislexia. Of course I meant Kenosha, WIS, not Waukegan, IL. Waukeegan's streetcars were part of the North Shore system and consisted of some modern double-truck safety cars moved from Milwaukee to help with the Great Lakes demand for local transportation, the fleet of single-truck Birneys that had been the mainstay since 1920 or so, and some old double-truck deck roof wood cars that helped out only during rush hours . I think the local cars went bus in stages after WWII and quit completely when the North Shore cut back its Shore Line local trains from downtown to 10th Street, the beginning of PRW off-street operatation, and then of course abandoned the Shore Line compeltely but still served Waukegan until the Milwaukee Skokie Valley trains quit about 1962 or 1963/
Kenosha's local cars were part of The Milwaukee Electric, and quit after WWII. even before that interurban quit. But there is a downtown circulator loop now running with about 8 rehabbed PCC's availble for service.
daveklepper An now we have Waukeegan, IL, a new operator, and then there is Fort Worth with Tandy Department store.
An now we have Waukeegan, IL, a new operator, and then there is Fort Worth with Tandy Department store.
Dave, my wife and I were married in Waukegan in 1959 and she still has family living there which we visit. There hasn't been a streetcar running in Waukegan for at least 55 years. The current operation that you are thinking of is in nearby Kenosha, WI.
Mark
Louisville bought cars, had a few painted for them actually on the property, but then sold the whole batch to Cleveland. But the Twin Cities had an extensive PCC fleet, which later saw service divided up between Shaker, New Jersey Transit's Newark Subway, and Mexico City. Some are now in San Francisco on the F line. In addition to missing the Twin Cities and Newark, the list did omitted Baltimore, and it and Newark are, of course, on the NEC. Also missing was Birmingham, AL, and Cincinnati. St, Louis was mentioned, but not as having two systems. Illinois Terminal had a local operaton from its St, Louis subway terminal across the McKinley Bridge into Grant City, and bought ten double-end, end-door mu PCC's for the service, the smallest PCC fleet of any operator. Johnston PA was the smallest city with PCC's but IT in St. Louis had the smallest fleet. In Canada, Vacouver also ran PCC's in addition to Montreal and Toronto. An now we have Waukeegan, IL, a new operator, and then there is Fort Worth with Tandy Department store.
Louisville?
Thx IGN
One of the other cities you mentioned also had two operators. Like to state which one (in additon to Cleveland and Los Angeles). There was also one additional Canadian city and two other locations on the NEC. One city not mentioned is an oddball, but still a transit service. Does not add a new state, however. One city not mentioned was a source for cars for a city mentioned. Altogether there were about 25. Plus two Mexican, Mexico City and Vera Cruz. But you clearly know your streetcars and I have to declair you a winner. But you or someone can try to add the several that are missing from your list. Inlcuding one small new operation.
I look forward to your next question.
narig01 Dave I will give to you the honor of the next question. The answer I was looking for was this SFMuni was the first major operation by a government of a public transit system. While the take over of Geary St was the begining it was the major expansion with the Sunset and Twin Peaks tunnels that made Muni a major operation. The freewheeling expendures(to quote the Hearst papers) of money from city coffers that was the complaint. San Francisco's Municipal Railway celebrates 1000 years of operation next year FYI. Thx IGN PS six states in three words oy voy good one.
Dave I will give to you the honor of the next question.
The answer I was looking for was this SFMuni was the first major operation by a government of a public transit system. While the take over of Geary St was the begining it was the major expansion with the Sunset and Twin Peaks tunnels that made Muni a major operation. The freewheeling expendures(to quote the Hearst papers) of money from city coffers that was the complaint.
San Francisco's Municipal Railway celebrates 1000 years of operation next year FYI.
PS six states in three words oy voy good one.
Oops 100 years. this is what happens when you use a smart phone. Typos Typso galore uncorrectable. (til you get to your home PC)
thx IGN
Here goes: 1. Boston 2. Brooklyn 3. Philadelphia 4. Washington DC 5. Pittsburgh 6. Johnstown PA 7. Cleveland (Cleveland Rys and Shaker Heights Rapid Transit) 8. Detroit 9. Chicago 10. St Louis 11. Kansas City 12. Dallas 13. El Paso 14. San Francisco 15. Los Angeles (Los Angeles Ry and Pacific Electric) 16. San Diego 17. Montreal 18. Toronto
While we are on transit, name all USA and Canadian cities and towns that operated PCC cars in street transit service as well as those doing so now, excluding all high-floor "heavy-rail" rapid transit lines that may have paid royalties to Tranist Research for use of some PCC ideas and equipment. And name those that had two separate systems operating PCC's. No need to mention any but the main city of a metropolitan concubation. Example: Boston suffices. No need to add Cambrdige, Newton, Mitlon, Mattapan, etc.
Don't answer unless you can name at least one city with two operators and and at least ten cities in total.
WOW San Francisco is celebrating 1000 yrs.
Narig, was not the 1920 date the date when the basic United streetcar system was moved from private to city ownership and became the Detroit Department of Street Railways? I think up to that date there was a Detroit Civic Railway that did build a few lines into areas where United would not provide service. OIften these were single-track lines run by second hand four-wheel cars and then the earliest Birney four-wheel safety cars. I think there were two or three such lines. Of course they were also merged into DSR.
I may be wrong,. and if you have the correct dates, please correct me!
Also while Detroit did start a government owned operation they did not start til 1920. SF Muni predated that in 1912.
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