East Barrett Tunnel in Kirkwood Missouri, built by the MP in 1851? It was abandonded in the mid 1940's and filled in.
Well it wasn't west(Oriental Limited) south (Panama Limited) so I tried east. & I thought it had been used already.
Well Next Question:
In the category of infrastructure Tunnels. What is the oldest railroad tunnel west of the Mississippi River? Name, location & current status?
Thx IGN
Bingo - IGN has it. The train was actually the NYC's (Michigan Central route) Trans-Atlantic Limited. In the 1930's and early 40's it ran only between Chicago and Buffalo with through cars that were carried in the New York Special from Buffalo on to New York City.
As to my "senior moment" I had forgotten that this train was the subject of a recent question on the "Part Deux" thread and I feel foolish for repeating it. The next question is yours IGN.
Mark
Ok WAG Trans Atlantic Express? or perhaps to honor some famous English musicians from Liverpool Beattle.
I just realized that I had one of those "senior moments" when I posted this question. You'll see what I mean when the question is answered and I apologize in advance for my lapse of memory.
The Havana Special, Oriental Ltd, Panama Ltd and to a lesser extent the Ocean Ltd are all misnomers in regard to where these trains actually ran. However these pale by comparison to the name of the train I have in mind
Heres a hint for you all to think about. From its name you might think you could take this train to Liverpool.
Then there is the Ocean Limited, Montreal - Halifax and St. John and Digby, with ferry to Newfoundland. CN and now (what rmeains, just Halifax) VIA
That's better than my thought -- the Panama Limited. When you think about it, there was a certain logic to it: Going to Panama? Take the Limited to New Orleans, and board a "banana boat" to Panama! Theoretically, it was at one time possible to get at least as far as Guatemala City by train, so a land route to Panama was not impossible, while the Orient?? Good call, FlyingCrow!
Mark...then perhaps the Oriental Limited ?
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm going to guess the Havana Special, which ran New York-Miami over PRR/RF&P/ACL/FEC.
I'm going to guess the Havana Special, which ran New York-Miami over PRR/RF&P/ACL/FEC.
Good guess but that's not the one I have in mind. You have the right idea so keep trying.
[quote user="daveklepper"]
There were a number of trains with names indicating speed, with the appilcaton "express" or "flyer" or even "limited' or such that made just about every local stop, handled mail and express, with an average speed point-to-point of less than 25mph or there abouts. Several examples on the various narrow gauges, including of course "The Newfy Bullet," which was really a nickname. Is the train you are looking for one of these? Or is its misnaming associated with geography? Or with the name of a person?
[quote]
This question has nothing to do with the dozens of trains that were billed as Limiteds or Expresses which in reality were nothing more than all stops locals.
daveklepper Of course, one other example is "The Aireoplane," an automotible parts trolley freight train run by the Shore Line Electric (or whatever the correct name was for the Toledo-Detroit interurban), the Cincinnati and Lake Erie, the Dayton and Western, and the Indiana Railroad between Indianapolis and Detroit or its enverons. The name "Aireoplane" was chosen to indicate that these interurban lines provided a freight service that was faster than the steam railroads provided at the time.
Of course, one other example is "The Aireoplane," an automotible parts trolley freight train run by the Shore Line Electric (or whatever the correct name was for the Toledo-Detroit interurban), the Cincinnati and Lake Erie, the Dayton and Western, and the Indiana Railroad between Indianapolis and Detroit or its enverons. The name "Aireoplane" was chosen to indicate that these interurban lines provided a freight service that was faster than the steam railroads provided at the time.
Not the Aireoplane. The name of the train implied a route that would be impossible by rail.
Here's the new question.
The name of this train was the biggest misnomer of all named US passenger trains. What was it's name, route and the railroad(s) over which it ran?
ZO, I had noticed that there was a through Pullman St. Pete-Miami and one Tampa-Miami along with through coaches Tampa-Miami. Apparently, the number of coach passengers had dropped to the point that it was uneconomical to run a St. Pete-Miami coach. By 1950, the St. Pete-Miami sleeper had been dropped, and Pullman passengers from Miami had to get up early to catch the train to St. Pete; it was not quite so bad changing in Tampa when going to Miami.
Johnny
Deggesty Yes, ZO, the origianl name could well have confused people. By 1930, it was called the Cross Florida Night Limited, which gave a little more infomation as to where the train ran.
Yes, ZO, the origianl name could well have confused people. By 1930, it was called the Cross Florida Night Limited, which gave a little more infomation as to where the train ran.
But if you looked closely, compared to five years earlier, this service was fractured in that the Cross Florida Night Limited was basically a Pullman car line. A southbound coach passenger would have to change trains twice, in Tampa and West Lake Whales. The daytime service was basically a "parlor bus" between St. Petersburg and West Lake Whales and existing service beyond West Lake Whales.
ZephyrOverland KCSfan: ZephyrOverland: The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water. ZO, when you posted this question I originally thought of the Seaboard's cross Florida service between the Atlantic and the Gulf thinking there might at one time have been an Inter-Coastal or Coast-to-Coast which would suggest it was a transcontinental train. However I wasn't able to find a SAL train with any such name. Your latest clue confirms I had the right idea so I'll keep looking. Mark Well Mark, you actually stumbled across the answer. The train I was looking for was the Seaboard Coast To Coast Limited, which was an overnight St. Petersburg-Tampa-West Palm Beach (and eventually to Miami) train, which was started in January, 1925, after the Seaboard completed its cross-Florida line to West Palm Beach. There was also a day train, called the Cross-Florida Limited. The following link refers to an article in the St. Petersburg Times from Mar 8, 1925, which discusses these trains in a major speedup of service between the two coasts: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tEkwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-kwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691%2C5957510 I always thought that the Coast to Coast Limited was an interesting name, considering where the train actually ran. Mark, the next question is yours.
KCSfan: ZephyrOverland: The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water. ZO, when you posted this question I originally thought of the Seaboard's cross Florida service between the Atlantic and the Gulf thinking there might at one time have been an Inter-Coastal or Coast-to-Coast which would suggest it was a transcontinental train. However I wasn't able to find a SAL train with any such name. Your latest clue confirms I had the right idea so I'll keep looking. Mark
ZephyrOverland: The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water.
The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water.
ZO, when you posted this question I originally thought of the Seaboard's cross Florida service between the Atlantic and the Gulf thinking there might at one time have been an Inter-Coastal or Coast-to-Coast which would suggest it was a transcontinental train. However I wasn't able to find a SAL train with any such name. Your latest clue confirms I had the right idea so I'll keep looking.
Well Mark, you actually stumbled across the answer. The train I was looking for was the Seaboard Coast To Coast Limited, which was an overnight St. Petersburg-Tampa-West Palm Beach (and eventually to Miami) train, which was started in January, 1925, after the Seaboard completed its cross-Florida line to West Palm Beach. There was also a day train, called the Cross-Florida Limited. The following link refers to an article in the St. Petersburg Times from Mar 8, 1925, which discusses these trains in a major speedup of service between the two coasts:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tEkwAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-kwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6691%2C5957510
I always thought that the Coast to Coast Limited was an interesting name, considering where the train actually ran.
Mark, the next question is yours.
WAG No longer needed
KCSfan ZephyrOverland: The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water. ZO, when you posted this question I originally thought of the Seaboard's cross Florida service between the Atlantic and the Gulf thinking there might at one time have been an Inter-Coastal or Coast-to-Coast which would suggest it was a transcontinental train. However I wasn't able to find a SAL train with any such name. Your latest clue confirms I had the right idea so I'll keep looking. Mark
ZephyrOverland The train that I'm looking for was probably named so because both endpoints were located near different large bodies of water.
Dave, the IC's train you are thinking of was the Northeastern Ltd. (eastbound) and the Southwestern Ltd. (westbouind). In fact it always did run all the way between Shreveport and Meridian and at one time carried a Shreveport - New York sleeper which was carried in a connecting Southern Rwy. train east of Meridian. Since it ran across two states it couldn't be the intrastate train that would answer ZO's question.
daveklepper The East-West. And the connection was as Meridian. I think the line was owned by the IC then, but now is KCS. It may have gone all the way from Sheveport to Dallas or Fort Worth, but it definitely ran west from Sheveport. Correction: The train ran only between Meridian and Jackson, MI. At one time it did run through to Shreveport, but possibly had a different name. And the connection to the North-South trains was at Jackson. I never did ride this line. I did ride the KCS between New Orleans and Shreveport. I did make an overnight roomette MP trip from Houston to New Orleans, connecting with the City of NO up to Jackson, and then continuing north on the Panama that evening to Champaign, IL. Jobs looked at were Jones Hall in Houston, the Jackson, MI Civic Auditorium-Peforming Arts Center, and the domed stadium on the UofI Campus. All very interesting and challenging.
The East-West. And the connection was as Meridian. I think the line was owned by the IC then, but now is KCS. It may have gone all the way from Sheveport to Dallas or Fort Worth, but it definitely ran west from Sheveport.
Correction: The train ran only between Meridian and Jackson, MI. At one time it did run through to Shreveport, but possibly had a different name. And the connection to the North-South trains was at Jackson.
I never did ride this line. I did ride the KCS between New Orleans and Shreveport. I did make an overnight roomette MP trip from Houston to New Orleans, connecting with the City of NO up to Jackson, and then continuing north on the Panama that evening to Champaign, IL. Jobs looked at were Jones Hall in Houston, the Jackson, MI Civic Auditorium-Peforming Arts Center, and the domed stadium on the UofI Campus. All very interesting and challenging.
Sorry Dave, there was no train named the East-West.
Another clue....
Here is another clue -
Trains that in theory would connect with the train I'm looking for were generally north-south runs.
daveklepper I recall a train name The Prarie Marksman but forget which railroad and where it ran. Myguess is the CB&Q or the RI.
I recall a train name The Prarie Marksman but forget which railroad and where it ran. Myguess is the CB&Q or the RI.
The Prairie Marksman was used by Amtrak, so this is not it either.
KCSfan At one time the Atlantic and Pacific RR (a Frisco predecessor) operated solely in the state of Missouri terminating at Seneca on the border with Oklahoma. I haven't been able to find any info about its trains but there may have been an Atlantic and Pacific Express or some such name. Mark
At one time the Atlantic and Pacific RR (a Frisco predecessor) operated solely in the state of Missouri terminating at Seneca on the border with Oklahoma. I haven't been able to find any info about its trains but there may have been an Atlantic and Pacific Express or some such name.
Nope -good try.
Don't get hung up on specific place names. The train I'm looking for had sort of a generic description.
daveklepper Possibly the train was named "The Lewis and Clark" and ran only in one western state that was on their exploration route, possibly Oregon or Washington. Or it may have been an interurban run, between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis over the Indiana Railroad or the predicessor through service of the Indiana Sevice Corporation and the Union Electric, via either Peru or Anderson, named "The American" or "The National" or something similar. Before the Indiana high speeds, these trains generally ran with two or three cars, one usually a 1st-class parlor.
Possibly the train was named "The Lewis and Clark" and ran only in one western state that was on their exploration route, possibly Oregon or Washington. Or it may have been an interurban run, between Fort Wayne and Indianapolis over the Indiana Railroad or the predicessor through service of the Indiana Sevice Corporation and the Union Electric, via either Peru or Anderson, named "The American" or "The National" or something similar. Before the Indiana high speeds, these trains generally ran with two or three cars, one usually a 1st-class parlor.
Nope - none of the above.
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