daveklepper In other words, northboiund, the Ashville Specvial bypassed Winston Salem.
In other words, northboiund, the Ashville Specvial bypassed Winston Salem.
We have a winner! Until some time after November 1947, the Asheville Special was combined with the Aiken-Augusta Special in Salisbury. Later, the combining took place in Greensboro--after the train had passed through Winston-Salem.
Johnny
Compare the operation of the Asheville Special in 1945 and some time (I do not know just when) after 1947. Look at a map of the Southern Railway in North Carolina.
I believe I may have ridden this sleeper northbound coming back from a job in Greensboro. It laid over in Greensboro to give both Winston-Salem and Greensboro passengers a decent time to board, around 9 or 10pm in Winston-Salem and still before midnight in Greensboro, before being picked up by the train from Ashville. I believe I worked on the acoustics of the First Presbyterian Church in Greensboro at the time of the installation of its Holtkamp organ.
Orit may have been a C.B.Fisk organ.
No, that's not it. Except for adding the sleeper from Winston-Salem, there was no switching done in Greensboro.
No, that's not it. There was little switching done in Greensboro for this train; the cars from Asheville and Winston-Salem were added to the Aiken-Augusta Special (#32), which had its own diner, and carried the coaches from August and all of the sleepers up to Washington.
My guess would be that a bunch of switching was already required at Greensboro. Assuming #8 was an earlier departure, it might have given the Winston-Salem patrons a better chance to get dinner in the diner.
As to the location of the cars in SAL's Florida Silver Fleet, I have the impression that it was standard practice to locate the sleepers at the front, and the coaches at the rear--except for the St. Petersburg cars, which were more or less in the middle, so as to reduce the switching necessary in Wildwood.
Back to the Southern in 1945 (Oh, no! can't he get away from that road in that year?)
New question: The Asheville Special carried, southbound, one NY-Asheville sleeper and two Washington-Asheville sleepers. These cars went north on the Asheville Special--which also picked up, in Greensboro, a Winston-Salem to New York sleeper that came into Greensboro on #8. Why did the Asheville Special not pick this car up in Winston-Salem?
Right on both counts. Regarding 1966, so did I, north from Jacksonville. It was the only Florida train with one, and coach passengers were allowed to use it. Indeed, sleepers were forward on the Silver Meteor, and sometimes one of the five you menjtioned served as the Pullman passengers' exclusive lounge, forward of the diner. But one of the five was a regular on each Silver Star.consist. Occasionally, one of them may have shown up on a Silver Comet to Atlanta and Birmingham, but I don't know about that. Your question.
In 1966, the Silver Meteor still carried a tavern-lounge observation car on the year, year-round (I rode in one, out of Miami, in 1970).
5 double bedroom-buffet lounge cars (Miami Beach, Palm Beach, and Hollywood Beach) had, as I recall, windows overhead in the lounge section.
Which was the last streamliner to Miami that carried a real closed observation car, which train and which rialroad.
The obsrvation car was a reguolar loiunge-snack-observation car as typial of many streamliners. But duirng the winter season, anothe lounge car could often be seen on this train, year round on a different streamliner, and these lounge cars, peculiar to this railroad (and thorugh-service conntecitons) and only to two particular trians, were unjique in North Amverica at time. Give as much information on both trains as you can, as well as the unique lounge cars.
Since Dave was at least in the right neighborhood, I'll turn it over to him.
Boston and Maine's Groveton NH branch left the line to Berlin NH at Whitefield. It crossed the MEC's Beecher Falls (VT) branch at Waumbek Jct. The MEC line left the Mountain Deivision at Quebec Jct., the name a legacy of the Beecher Falls branch extending over the border to Stansfield QC. In the 1920s, after some flooding wiped out part of the B&M line from Waumbek Jct to Lancaster, and part of the MEC's line from Lancaster to North Stratford, the B&M, MEC and Grand Trunk agreed to swap rights or extend new ones. B&M trains to Groveton operated over the MEC from Waumbek Jct. to Lancaster, MEC Beechers Falls trains operated over B&M from Lancaster to Groveton where they made a switchback connection to the Grand Trunk to get to North Stratford, where they resumed their own tracks. Surprisingly, almost all of this is still in service except for a short stretch from Columbia NH to Beecher Falls VT. - unlike the B&M line south of Whitefield, which is a trail.
Here's a map: http://www.nhrra.org/resources/map.htm
Here's the start for the rest of you - the B&M line heads northeast from Wells River VT/Woodsville NH.
Don't have the material at hand to do the research and lack the time to Google, so somebocy else can pick up thses pieces and be credited with the right answer.
Maine Central is the third. Now you have Boston and Maine (A), Maine Central (B) and Grand Trunk (C). Now construct the zig-zag route with two ball signals between the two endpoints.
Instead of Maine Central, St. Johnsbury and Lake Champlain?
You have two of the three railroads involved, but you've gone too far east. Most of this zig-zag route was within a couple of miles of a river that forms a state boundary.
The Grand Trunk is related to the Central Vermont, so that is one. Another must be the Bangor and Aroostick (Sp) and so I assume the third is the Maine Central.
Move little further northeast. None of the lines you listed was involved, though railroad C is related to one of them. Both of the other lines had predecessors that made it to Canada, too.
The original railroads are probably the Rutland, Centrql Vermont, qnd Delaware and Hudson.
In a series of trackage rights grants, these two related lines, A and B, were able to abandon several long stretches of flood-prone trackage including long pile trestles. One of the two railroads got rights to a section of a third railroad (C) to connect its two pieces in what ended up being a switchback route. The original junctions of the two railroads retained ball signals even after the cutbacks, one of the junctions being named after the original destination of B's line.
In the longest lasting configuration railroad A split to the west and north, with railroad A crossing B's line west and joining B's line north at a second junction near the split. In a small city nearby, ownership changed when B ran on A to the end of A's branch, where B had a switchback connection to C. A few miles up C, B regained its own line which had been abandoned between there and the small city. One of the two ball signals involved in this picturesque operation is still there, and some of the trackage remains, but the only really active line today is the successor to C.
Good job!
RMEThis engine had a 'life' after logging service. Where did she go, what was her number there (and details of any 'sisters'), and what happened to her? Add Quote to you
It went to American Rolling Mills (as E-103) in 1940, joining 100-ton sister E-101. ARM also had 5 60-ton units (541-545?). E-103 was reported scrapped in 1962.
If I were to sing about "the grief you are causing to me" ... I would get to the important part of its name by and by.
A famous mythological figure featured prominently in their advertising.
And for those interested in early hundred-tonners with 55-mph gearing:
This engine had a 'life' after logging service. Where did she go, what was her number there (and details of any 'sisters'), and what happened to her?
California is the correct state - need the lumber company name...
rcdryeNeed the lumber company name and the state it operated in.
Is that Minnesota, where it was organized, or California where the railroad and the principal operations were?
A perhaps interesting note:
"y the mid-1950's Fruit Growers [who acquired the line and technically as a result also answer the question] no longer needed the electrified logging railroad ... as they were pretty well cut out of that area. Most harvesting activity was taking place far to the north of [the area the railroad served], and the 82,000 acre Burney tract was one of the last (and largest) un-tapped stands left. Fruit Growers surveyed a railroad line that, if built, would have run from Poison Lake on the WP's highline ... to Burney, and the line would have been electrified. However, the sudden introduction of cardboard boxes into the citrus shipping business ended the need for Fruit Growers to build to Burney, and instead the harvesting rights were sold to the McCloud River Lumber Company, who in turned loaned money to the McCloud River Railroad to complete the new line to Burney in 1955."
I find this an interesting assertion, because I'd almost automatically think that with its early interest in and knowledge of diesel power, that would be the favored power for a new line.
My Grandfather worked on a pole road in the Puget Sound area around 1910. Many of the companies that tried pole or tram rails either left the business or converted to more conventional rails. Motor trucks didn't get involved until fairly late.
There was a fairly well-known lumber railroad operation that used electric locomotives with special pickup arrangements. The company also used early diesels. Need the lumber company name and the state it operated in.
Poking around the web I'd found this a couple of weeks ago.
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/trucks/trk-11.jpg
There are other pics of logging Shay' s (and a Heisler) on log rails on the internet. I'd heard of them and saw a collection online of the pics. It was kind of a unique adaptation. I would guess motor trucks of various sorts replaced the lot very quickly. Some of the characters involved in surface (ie on solid ground not water) transportation of logs had all sorts of interesting stories. Some of these stories made it into print at the time.
I guess I put a too easy question out.
rcdyre your question.
The IGN
Some Shays (and Climaxes and Heislers) were built to operate on tram roads, where the "rails" were squared off timbers. The usual setup for this involved wide, double-flanged wheels. Switches were set up like stub switches. A variation on this was the "pole" road, using round logs as rails. I don't recall seeing any pictures of Shays set up for pole roads (though I know they existed), but I have seen pictures of a bunch of Class A Climaxes set up that way.
Lima is noted for the many Shay locomotives the produced over the years.
Many Shays built were not built to run on steel rails. What were they built to run on and what were the modifications?(Not simply a different gauge)
Rgds IGN
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