29 & 30 was the Arizona Limited. The board is up for grabs.
Since I named the never was train and the roads which would have operated it, here goes.
In the early thirties, there was a through Pullman between Greensboro, N.C., and Jacksonville, Fla., operated by one road and did not follow the same route northbound as it did southbound. What major city did it serve each way that it did not serve the other way? What was the routing and what trains carried it?
Johnny
The railroad is the Southern, and one direction included Atlanta, the other Savanna and Columbia. About the trains, i am less certain. Possibly the Piedmont Limited, and the Kansas-City-Florida Special. Possibly the Florida Sunbeam and the Piedmont, again.
Dave, you are right on the road, but you are way, way, off on one direction. Incidentally, the Florida Sunbeam did not go through Jacksonville; the Southern handed it off to the SAL at Hampton, Fla, taking it down from Valdosta on the Palatka line of the GS&F.
The car arrived in Jacksonville about breakfast time and left for Greensboro after giving the passengers time to digest their suppers; it was overnight in both directions from/to another city in North Carolina.
Well, it obviously also served Charlotte. I suspect that Columbia and Savanna are correct and Atlanta is the error. More research. Yes, Columbia and Savanna in both directions, Spencer in one and Rock Hill in the other. The Piedmont Limited might apply for main line portion of the run in both directions, and Ashville - Jacksonville trains in one, with the connection to the Piedmont at Spencer. Possibly this train was the Highland Special or may not have had a name, only a number. If the Sunnyland was a Washington-Florida (Jacksonville) train, then it could have the sleeper for the entire trip, and the Piedmont might be necessary. Or it could have been the name of the Piedmont's section to Jacksonville, the junction being at Charlotte. But it did not run via Atlanta..
Johnny, I'm guessing the car was carried in the Skyland Spcl between Charlotte and Jacksonville. Did it possibly run via Salisbury in one direction and via Winston-Salem in the other?
Mark
KCSfan Johnny, I'm guessing the car was carried in the Skyland Spcl between Charlotte and Jacksonville. Did it possibly run via Salisbury in one direction and via Winston-Salem in the other? Mark
From Charlotte to Greensboro, the car was carried in #36, the New York-Washington-Atlanta-New Orleans Express, passing through Salisbury and arriving in Greensboro, due in at 11:55 a.m.
Obviously, "Skyland Special" did not quite suit the Columbia-Charlotte section, but the train did carry that name.
Incidentally, I wonder why the Southern never, so far as I can tell, provided through passenger service between Charlotte and Asheville. In the above time frame, it was possible to take Winston-Salem Division 22/21 between Charlotte and Barber and take Asheville Division 21/22 between Barber and Asheville. In my time, it was still possible to take the Piedmont Limited between Charlotte and Spartanburg and the South Carolina section of the Carolina Special between Spartanburg and Asheville--all four trains were in Spartanburg at the same time. The Southern did run a through freight train between the two cities, going directly from Mooresville to Statesville.
From Greensboro to Charlotte, leaving at 12:15 p.m., the car was carried in #21 (no name, though it connected with the North Carolina section of the Carolina Special (also #21) in Barber), passing through Winston-Salem. There was a short layover in Charlotte southbound, from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., when #23 left.
What was the first non-articulated lightweight streamlined train to run in the US? Name the the train, the railroad which operated it, the builder and the year it was put into service.
It kind of depends on how you want to define it. The Budd-Michelin twin unit rail cars weren't articulated.
Hiawatha May 29 1935, CMStP&P shops (Alco locomotives 1-4) beat the GM&N rebels by a couple of months.
rcdrye It kind of depends on how you want to define it. The Budd-Michelin twin unit rail cars weren't articulated. Hiawatha May 29 1935, CMStP&P shops (Alco locomotives 1-4) beat the GM&N rebels by a couple of months.
I had in mind fully streamlined trainsets. The Hiawatha is the correct train and you are right as to its builder and date of its first run. The Hiawatha was closely followed by the B&O's aluminum Royal Blue built by AC&F which went in service on June 24, 1935, the Alton's cor-ten steel Abraham Lincoln, also built by AC&F and placed in service on July 1, 1935 and then the GM&N's Rebel whose first run was July 29, 1935.
The next question is yours Rob.
These two New England railroads shared a gantlet trestle and swing bridge, each with its own rails. Main line of one railroad, branch of the other.
Sounds like the Central Vermont and the Boston and Maine, somewhere between Bellows Falls and White River Junction. Or possibly at Bellows Falls, the Rutland and the Boston and Maine.
That's what I was thinking, too Dave. But I am also stumbling along the coast Downeast toward Portland ME.
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Dave has both carriers, just the wrong place(s)...
Rutland's bridge over the canal in Bellows Falls was "Joint track" with a gantlet over the bridge so the switch stand to the B&M connecting track wasn't on the bridge. Still, B&M only operated on it, but didn't have its own rails.
Then somewhere near Brattleboro VT or E.Northfield, MA because south of there they were pretty well separated. Bellows Falls crossed to N. Walpole NH as a B&M only track.....hmm.....come on Dave...you spent more time up that way than I did!
Here's a broad hint... the bridge crossed a narrow bit of the largest body of water east of the great lakes.
You are talking about Lake Champlain? Then you are talking about D&H and Central VT I think..I don't believe the B&M was up that far...ahhh, but Rutland and CV were!
Rouses Point - Lake Champlain - main line of Rutland and branch of the CV.
KCSfan Rouses Point - Lake Champlain - main line of Rutland and branch of the CV. Mark
Mark has the correct answer. The bridge was originally built as a (non-gantlet) trestle with a floating swing span in the 1850s. Rutland acquired it along with the Ogdensburgh and Lake Champlain. CV used it as a link to the D&H, and an alternate link to parent CN. Rutland's trains to Ogdensburgh and Montreal used the bridge, Montreal trains connecting with the CN and following the route of today's Adirondack.
The amount of track on the tiny Alburgh spit was amazing considering its location. Today's NECR crosses Missisquoi Bay onto the spit in East Alburgh (former jct. with Rouses Point sub) and then turns north to cross the border into Canada before turning west and crossing a pile trestle to Cantic QC (about a mile north of Rouses Point). The Rutland line through the Islands up from Burlington joined the CV line at Alburgh before crossing into New York. At one time there was a line north from Alburgh, crossing the CV/CN line at Noyan QC,
There were also a bunch of lines that paralleled the major ones, though none of them lasted into the 20th century. CV and CN also used the St. Hyacinthe sub on the east side of Missisquoi Bay wia Highgate Springs.
I have another question going on the "Part Deux" thread so I'll defer to Henry who, except for mentioning Rouses Point, came very close to answering this one. Gives jus your best shot Henry.
I have been quiet and passing the torch to you, KC...I am in a rush right now...but if you haven't posed a question by this evening, then I shall try to come up with one....
OK. Train from Washington DC to Boston MA. without gong through New York City:....name, route, railroads.please.
Easily answered: The Federal Express, after the Poughkeepsie Bridge was built and before the Hell Gate Bridge. NYNH&H, L&NE (or L&HR?) and PRR. Boston - New Haven - Maybrook Line - Trenton - Phiadlephia - Wilmington - Baltimore - Washington. I am unsure whether it served Providence and New London or used the old "White Train" NY&NE route though Wilimantic, but I think the former, Providence nd New London is correct.
The PUghkeespie Bridge meant the restoration of the Federal after a lapse of a few years following the fire on the ferry that had carried the sleeping cars between Oak Point Yard in The Bronx and PRR Greenville, NJ. As soon as the Hell Gate Bridge was opened, the train again began serving New York City, with PRR DD-1's taking over from steam at Harold Tower and running to Manhattan Tranfer.
You got it Dave....just for kicks, what other car was added enroute by what railroad, where and from where?
WAG Central Vermont, New London, From Montreal?
Rgds IGN
Wrong question IGN...
Let me reedit the response.
It would be appropriate for a sleeper from Springfield to be added southbound and subtracted northbound at New Haven by the NYNH&H, but other possibilities include a car from Albany or Syracuse or Rochester or even Buffalo, via the Erie to Maybrook or Campbell Hall, possibly arriving on the Erie!
My question is: What was the very shortest heavy rapid transit line in North America, with two regular gauge running rails and a third rail and mu operation. As you already know, the present 42nd Street shuttle, with three trains shuttling back and forth, each on its own track, was once part of the first 4-track subway line that ran up 4th Ave to 42nd, across 42ndm and then up Broadway, and was converted to a shuttle about 100 years ago, when the Broadway line was extended south on 7th Avenue, eventually to South Ferry and Brooklyn, and the subway on 4th Avenue extended north on Lexington Avenue, to The Bronx. Similarly, the Franklin Avenue Shuttle, Prospect Park to Franklin and Fulton, was once part of the main Brighton Line route and became a shuttle when Brighton trains went from wood gate elevated cars entering Manhattan via the Brooklyn Bridge and the Fulton Street Elevated to entering via Manhattan Bridge and a subway under Eastern Parkway and Prospect Park.
And this shuttle was, for a very short time, also part of a longer route.
It was so short that if one missed a train, one could save time by walking. The entire run was less than 620 feet.
Important railroad and subway construction ended its usefulness.
Everyone on this forum has seen photographs of part of it.
Third Ave. El stub to Grand Central? I seem to remember photos in the forum a while back. I would think it came down during the Lexington Subway's construction.
(The bonus answer was the DL&W sleeper from Hoboken to Andover Jct. NJ where it was tacked on by the L&HR.)
Your question: wasn't that the Third Ave. El extention or branch to GCT? And the roadway around GCT and ramp to Park Ave south ended it.
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