rcdrye This Texas subsidiary of a Class I had two segments that did not connect.
This Texas subsidiary of a Class I had two segments that did not connect.
Oops. Didn't wait for the questioner to accept the answer...
So I'll slightly rephrase the question:
This Texas subsidiary of a Class I had two sections that did not connect except via the parent. One of the sections is part of an important main line today.
Frisco's subsidiary, St. Louis San Francisco & Texas, had an isolated 107 mile line between Seymour and Mineral Wells.
Mark
The Frisco's line, while important, is not today considered a main line. This Texas subsidiary at various times carried the parent carriers lowest numbered through trains. The carrier also had another Texas subsidiary, but it was all in one piece, unless you count trackage rights.
The parent road is the SP and the public largely did not call the subsidiary by its name but just thought of it as part of the SP. I think its name was Texas and New Orleans, but am not sure..
T&NO was well known in Texas as was Houston &Texas Central. Now for the giveaway... All three companies, parent and both subsidiaries, split and unsplit, had corporate names ending in an "&" followed by the same name.
rcdrye T&NO was well known in Texas as was Houston &Texas Central. Now for the giveaway... All three companies, parent and both subsidiaries, split and unsplit, had corporate names ending in an "&" followed by the same name.
Panhandle & Santa Fe - Gulf Colorado & Santa Fe - AT&SF
KCSfan Panhandle & Santa Fe - Gulf Colorado & Santa Fe - AT&SF Mark
P&SF "owned" the isolated line north from El Paso to comply with Article X of the Texas Constitution requiring railroads operating in Texas to be headquartered in Texas. P&SF's headquarters were in Amarillo, GC&SF's in Galveston.
The "Transcon" was also P&SF across the Panhandle. Both of those sections were operated as part of the larger AT&SF system. P&SF's other lines covered a lot of Texas including small cities like Sweetwater and Lubbock. GC&SF had the main line south to Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston/Galveston, including sections operated on trackage rights.
The US Supreme court invalidated Article X in the early 1960s. Both Texas companies became part of the AT&SF in 1965. The Texas State Railroad Commission had a reputation for being a lot tougher than the ICC. Its most obvious legacy today are the numbered interlockings that still exist in Texas, of which Tower 55 in Fort Worth is the most famous.
Rob, while you didn't say so, I take it that my reply was correct and was the answer you were looking for so I'll ask the next question. If I'm wrong in assuming this I'll rescind my question.
This winter only all Pullman train had a short life span of just two seasons. Name the train, the railroads over which it ran, its end point terminals and the years it operated.
KCSfan Rob, while you didn't say so, I take it that my reply was correct and was the answer you were looking for so I'll ask the next question. If I'm wrong in assuming this I'll rescind my question. This winter only all Pullman train had a short life span of just two seasons. Name the train, the railroads over which it ran, its end point terminals and the years it operated. Mark
You were, of course, correct!
From page 716 in Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg's The Trains We Rode: "...its star came into ascendancy in [sic] evil hour in 1940 when war was already inevitable and it perished, a victim of travel restrictions, after only two seasons in service."
Johnny
You're right on the money Johnny and the next question is yours.. It was the two tone gray, all room, streamlined Arizona Limited.
The Arizona Limited showed off Pullman's flexibility, mixing pool-service Cascade 10-5 and Imperial 4-4-2 cars with borrowed cars of the same type. The 2-1-1 Observation cars American Milemaster and Muskingum River (spelled on at least one occasion by the George M. Pullman) were augmented by the two-unit Bear Flag/California Republic set the second year. CRI&P supplied Baggage and Dining cars.
The all-Pullman summer-only East Wind was a similar operation, PRR-NYNH&H-B&M-MC, but summer only and (I think) 1937-1941, Wash-Bangor.
The name of what non-existing train was on the letterboards of eleven new cars that were placed in service on a Chicago-West Coast train in 1947-48?
California Zephyr, which had not been inaugurated at the time the cars were delivered and put into service on the Exposition Flyer.
No, Dave; the CZ cars were not built until 1948; some of these cars were built in 1947, and all were built for a train that never ran.
Johnny:
The answer you are looking for is the "Golden Rocket". It seems that the SP had second thoughts and axed the construction of their cars while the RI had received their cars.
See "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists pages 118 and 119. Also "Some Classic Trains" (Dubin) pages 220 and following has pictures and more information.
Ed Burns
Ed, you have it! The Golden Rocket was to have been a twice a week train, being operated with two sets of equipment, one Rock Island and the Southern Pacific. Apparently the Rock thought it unnecessary to change the letterboards, and simply put the cars into service on the Golden State.
The next question is yours.
I am honored again!
This question involves the CBQ Twin Zephyrs in Minneapolis. What depot did the CBQ use and how did the CBQ turn the inbound Morning Zephyr into the eastbound Afternoon Zephyr so quickly (about 30 minutes or so)?
Bonus points for what telling the group what type of employees walked a short distance to the inbound Morning Zephyr.
763-234-9306
The Burlington used the Great Northern Station in Minneapolis. I'm just guessing but did the car cleaners do their work while the train was being turned?
KCSfan The Burlington used the Great Northern Station in Minneapolis. I'm just guessing but did the car cleaners do their work while the train was being turned? Mark
From looking at photos of the GN Depot I assumed it was a stub ended station which may or not have been the case. I've been unsuccessful in trying to find the track layout of the station.
GN Station was through, with coach yards and other facilities north of the station itself. I believe the wye used to turn trains was a mile or two up the river (NP Eddie - can you help us out here?) Trains arriving from St. Paul used the Stone Arch Bridge.
Here's a tantalizing photo that offers almost enough detail to find out...
https://www.hclib.org/pub/search/MplsPhotos/mphotosAction.cfm?subject=Great%20Northern%20Railroad%20Station
KCSFan and Rob:
WOW. Both of you are good. All tracks in the GN depot were through. The CBQ Coach Yard was about .5 miles north of the GN depot. Coach cleaners walked that distance to the inbound train and cleaned while the train was being wyed. After all passenger and baggage were off the train, the entire train headed west on the west leg the depot wye to GN 1st Street, then backed up on one of the GN tracks toward Nicollet Island, then headed into the depot via a sharp east wye into the depot. After this, the train backed up into the CBQ coach yard, the coach cleaners got off the train, and the locomotives were refueled for the return trip to Chicago. I assume that the inbound train crew worked the train back to Lacrosse and then went off duty. The engineer probably worked a Lacrosse to Mpls to St. Paul or Lacrosse to Savanna. I do know that the train crews worked a Lacrosse-Savanna, St.Paul or Minneapolis (depending on the train--NCL or EB to St. Paul and other trains to Mpls).
As miscl. information, only regular scheduled or sections thereof used the GN passenger track and depot to the GN depot. Extra NP passenger trains used the NP freight line between St. Paul and Northtown.
Next question to either of you.
If you are in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, please call and let's ride trains and railfan.
Mark, this one goes to you since you answered the actual question. I just had a bit of fun poking at maps and finding photos. I only went through the GN station a couple of times in 1974.
What was the first transcontinental sleeping car route? Name the railroads over which it ran and the year the service was instituted.
The route of this sleeper took it through several southern states.
KCSfan The route of this sleeper took it through several southern states. Mark
And over three railroads.
I can't find the start date, but 1889 sticks in my mind. Tourist service from Jacksonville FL to San Francisco was offered by Seaboard, L&N and SP. Of course SP was really T&NO + SP, but even then it was Southern Pacific Lines. Seaboard's line across Florida at the time was the Florida Central and Peninsular. The earliest Washington Sunset route confirmation I can find is for 1900.
A few lines form Boston to the west coast started in 1891, none of them heading through the south, and all using more than four railroads except for the B&M/CP car to Vancouver BC.
rcdrye I can't find the start date, but 1889 sticks in my mind. Tourist service from Jacksonville FL to San Francisco was offered by Seaboard, L&N and SP. Of course SP was really T&NO + SP, but even then it was Southern Pacific Lines. Seaboard's line across Florida at the time was the Florida Central and Peninsular. The earliest Washington Sunset route confirmation I can find is for 1900. A few lines form Boston to the west coast started in 1891, none of them heading through the south, and all using more than four railroads except for the B&M/CP car to Vancouver BC.
Several sources state that the short lived Jacksonville - Los Angeles Pullman of 1926 was the first transcontinental service and was the route I was looking for. This car ran between Jax and River Jct. in SAL No's. 36 & 37, between River Jct. and NO in L&N No's. 2 & 3, and in the Sunset Ltd. west of NO. Of course any service prior to 1926 would trump that claim.
Since you have mentioned this route as well as several earlier ones the next question is yours, Rob.
e
This one-season postwar midwest-Florida train changed carriers at a spot not normally associated with midwest-Miami Service. Through cars from Detroit, Cleveland and Buffalo to Miami and St. Petersburg. The train's name was later reused in New York/Florida service.
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