Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[Anonymous]

flaglerchaged in st Louis or maybe Louisville or Memphis?

[rcdrye]

A lot closer to the southern endpoints.

[daveklepper]

I do not believe the name "Flagler" was ever used specifically in NY -Florida service.

Possibly, the name you are looking for is The Vacationer, which was used by Amtrak for a short time to replace the name Florida Special, since the Vacationer had coaches as well as sleepers and lacked some of the amenities of the Florida Special.

But the name had been used earlier for a Midwest - Florida train.  It may have had an unusual C&O-Southern route via Ashland.

[rcdrye]

Both of the railroads involved had other Florida trains.  On another route they were competitors of sorts.

[daveklepper]

Sunland or Palmland?   Both were SAL secondary East Coast Florida trains.    But one name or the other may have been used by the Southern for the midwest - Florida one-season Florida service.   Sou and  S AL competed  NY and Birmingham

[Deggesty]

I would say that the junction was at the point where the SAL & GS&F crossed in Florida. At the moment, I cannot recall its name (I am in the University Hospital,hoping to go home this afternoon). The only name I can think of is the Silver Palm--but I do not recall a Midwest-Florida train of that name, especially on the Florida Sunbeam's route. My laptop is not letting me use the font I want to use.

[KCSfan]

The only two mid-west trains that didn't run via Jacksonville that I know of were the Southland and the Florida Sunbeam. But the Sunbeam was a pre-WWII winter season train and I don't know of any NY-Florida trains that were named Sunbeam. It's handoff point between the Southern (GS&F) and SAL was at Hampton, FL.

Mark

 

[rcdrye]

I'm going to let you guys fight it out for who gets the next question. My oops on the name re-use - I put the books down too far apart... The Florida Sunbeam enjoyed only one postwar season 1946-1947, Southern (well, CNO&TP + GS&F...) to SAL via Hampton FL "Diesel-powered between Cincinatti and Valdosta, Ga.".  The latter leads me to believe that the actual handoff was at Valdosta, even though the connection was at Hampton.  Connecting cars from NYC at Cincinnati.    To make up for the bent clue, here's the car list with original punctuation(including the missing "y" on Thursda):

SLEEPING CARS

Chicago-Miami................12-Section, 1-Drawing-room

Chicago-Miami..............10-Section, 1-Drawing-room,

      2-Compartment

Detroit-Miami.......6-Double Bedroom, Buffet-Lounge

Detroit-Miami.................................................14-Section

Detroit-Miami.................12-Section, 1-Drawing-room

Detroit-Miami........6-Compartment, 3-Drawing-room

Detroit-St. Petersburg............10-Section, 1-Drawing-

      room,  2-Compartment

Cleveland-Miami............8-Section, 1-Drawing-room,

    3-Double Bedroom

Cleveland-Miami..........10-Section, 1-Drawing-room,

    2 Compartment.    (Southbound, leave Cleveland

    Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.)  (Northbound,

    leave Miami Monday, Wednesday and Saturday.)

Cleveland-St. Petersburg 12-Section, 1-Drawing-room

Toledo-Miami...................10-Section, 1-Drawing-room,

    2-Compartment. (Southbound, leave Toledo Sun-

    day, Wednesday and Friday.)  (Northbound,

    leave Miami Sunday, Tuesday and Thursda.)

Coaches--Detroit-Miami. Cleveland-Miami.

    Wildwood-St. Petersburg.

COMBINED BAGGAGE-COACH--

  Cincinnati-Miami.  Wildwood-St. Petersburg.

           Dining Car Service for all meals.

  Southbound--Sleeping cars open for occupancy

      9.30 p.m. at Chicago and Cleveland; 10.00

      p.m. at Detroit and Toledo

Northbound --Sleeping cars may be occupied until

      7.30a.m. at Detroit; 8.00 a.m. at Toledo and

      Cleveland.

[Deggesty]

The Southern (formerly the ETV&G)handled the Florida Sunbeam between Chattanooga and Macon. Perhaps there was no diesel handling facility at Hampton, so light GS&F Pacifics carried the train down to Hampton from Valdosta on dark track? Yes, the Florida Sunbeam was operated before WWII. I learned, just a little while ago, that I will not go home until tomorrow. A word of caution--if it is not too late--do not let you get yourself into a situation that calls for radiation treatment, if you can help it. I have all sorts of complications which I hope will not prevent my traveling as I planned to this spring. What route was followed by a Denver-Tampa sleeper; roads and at least two train names?

[Deggesty]

I do not know why my paragraph breaks are not sent. At least I can communicate while away from my desktop computer.

[daveklepper]

I would guess two trains were the City of Kansas City, UP Denver - KC. then the KC-Florida Special, KC - Jax via Frisco and Southern.  Then FEC to Miami.

[KCSfan]

Johnny, I'm sorry to learn of your most recent hospitalization and wish you a speedy recovery. I'm looking forward to our April meeting in Shreveport and hope health issues don't prevent you from making the trip.

I stumbled onto the Denver - Tampa car in a 1930 OG and was able to decipher its route which follows:

CRI&P -  Denver to Belleville, KS, Rocky Mountain Ltd.; Bellville to Kansas City, un-named train

Frisco - KC to Birmingham, Sunnyland

Southern - B'ham to Atlanta, Sunnyland - Atl to Hampton; combined Sunnyland and Suwanee River Spcl.

SAL - Hampton to Tampa, Suwanee River Spcl. 

Mark

[Deggesty]

Mark, you got it! When I bought the various reprints of the Guide that I found, I was really fascinated by the various routings of trains and through Pullman service, and this is one that really struck me. I was glad that I could remember this one.

As to my stay here, A complication was found this morning which necessitated my going back to surgery this afternoon, but I may be able to leave for home (3 miles away) tomorrow. I fear I may have to cancel a trip I had planned for next month, but I still hope to take the April trip, which has a college alumni gathering and seeing some relatives.

[KCSfan]

Trains frequently had the names of birds and animals; Gull, Meadowlark, Humming Bird, Wolverine, Badger and Gopher for example. Those named for insects were far fewer but two of them had the official name of a certain bug and surprisingly both served the same city. Name these two trains, the railroads which ran them and the endpoints of their two routes.

Mark

 

 

[rcdrye]

I can't verify one of these from what I have on hand...

Both trains called the Boll Weevil

Seaboard Air Line      Savannah GA - Hamlet NC

Savannah & Atlanta   Savannah GA - Camak GA

[KCSfan]

rcdrye

I can't verify one of these from what I have on hand...

Both trains called the Boll Weevil

Seaboard Air Line      Savannah GA - Hamlet NC

Savannah & Atlanta   Savannah GA - Camak GA

The Savannah & Atlanta may have had a train nicknamed the Boll Weevil but it was not an official name so these are not the two I'm looking for.

Mark

[Deggesty]

This is something of an aside, but until this came up in a Classic Trains thread some time back, I had known nothing of the Hamlet-Charleston-Savannah train's being named;all of the SAL information I had gave it no name. As it is, I cannot think of any train named for an insect except the Frisco's Firefly--and, of course, I do not have any access to documentation today.

[KCSfan]

The SL-SF's Firefly is correct. Now we need its route and the other train.

Mark

[Deggesty]

These two names have come to me: Kansas City-Tulsa. Now, if nobody else comes up with the other road and the other city before I can get home....

[KCSfan]

You've nailed it Johnny. Before and following WW2 The Frisco's Firefly ran on an Oklahoma City-Tulsa- Kansas City route. In later years it was truncated to run just between Tulsa and KC. Information contained in my original question should narrow down the search for the other Firefly. Incidentally, does anyone know of any other trains named for an insect other than the two Fireflies and the Boll Weevil? I don't.

Mark

[Overmod]

Rock Island had a Firefly, down to Fort Worth. 

[Overmod]

KCSfan

Incidentally, does anyone know of any other trains named for an insect other than the two Fireflies and the Boll Weevil? I don't.

Doesn't "Bee-Liner" count?  ;-}

[daveklepper]

The New York Central has a lot of them! 

[KCSfan]

Overmod

Rock Island had a Firefly, down to Fort Worth. 

That's the other Firefly all right. It ran on the RI between Dallas and Kansas City until some time in the late 30's or early 40's. 1941 OG's show the Texas Rocket as the only name train running on that route.

Since Johnny and Overmod each identified one train either of you that has a question ready feel free to post it.

Mark

[KCSfan]

Overmod

KCSfan

Incidentally, does anyone know of any other trains named for an insect other than the two Fireflies and the Boll Weevil? I don't.

Doesn't "Bee-Liner" count? 

Oops, my bad. I had completely forgotten about the NYC Bee Liners.

Mark

[Overmod]

I'll give the 'real' question to Johnny.  A question I'd ask is what the precise circumstances of PRR 6100's supposedly running over 140 mph with a train might have been.

Supposedly this was 'documented' by Arnold Haas (who also believes Niagaras regularly ran faster than 120 mph in service), and was on the Trail Blazer coach train sometime relatively shortly after the War.  The story had acquired the usual "ICC fine for speeding" by the time I first heard it.

I dismissed the story for a technical reason unrelated to whether or not 6100 could physically reach that speed range -- the stated speed had a decimal point, which got me musing about metric conversions, and sure enough that's almost exactly 225 kph... Haas was originally German.

General consensus at the ICC archives was that, while there might have been some comment about a run at that speed, there was no likely 'enforcement action' that would have come from them -- and in any case, the ICC order enforcing 79 mph without ATC did not take effect until after 6100 was scrapped...

Does anyone know what 6100 actually achieved, either in testing or in fast service?  Actual references would be ever so nice...

[henry6]

It had to do with an event in D.C. which was photographed and the pics had to be in the papers ASAP.  The photog or newspaper (Herald? Journal? American?) hired the PRR to run a train with a darkroom in a baggage care so  pics were developed enroute and thus press ready upon arriving in NY.  I am straining to remember the event, though.

[KCSfan]

Henry, IIRC that run was made for the purpose of developing and delivering photos of Lindberg's historic trans-Atlantic flight to one of the NY newspapers. It had nothing to do with the supposed high speed hit by the PRR's 6100.

Mark

[KCSfan]

KCSfan

Henry, IIRC that run was made for the purpose of developing and delivering photos of Lindberg's historic trans-Atlantic flight to one of the NY newspapers. It had nothing to do with the supposed high speed hit by the PRR's 6100.

Mark

I should have looked this up before posting the above. The Lindberg news photo train was headed by PRR No. 460, a 4-4-2 Atlantic.

Mark

[efftenxrfe]

The rolling darkroom 460 pulled to Manhattan Transfer was developing and producing newsreels for theatres; they recorded Lindbergh's return to the U.S. and his welcome-home from his Roosevelt Field to Paris non-stop flight.

The above is quite likely correctable.....it's recollection from when I read "The Apex of the Atlantics," when the book was new. When....50 years ago?....

Could it be argued, that he did not fly from continental North America to Paris?

Roosevelt Field was on an offshore island possessed by the continental govt. I know 'cause as a proud Southerner, and Islander native, I've been there.

Oh....uh...born and nurtured in the Long Island, N.Y, South-Shore village of Oceanside.

Mom, 4th and Dad 3rd generation N' Yawka's.